Bonus Episode 1: The Dobb's Decision...What Now?

00;00;02;16 - 00;00;25;25
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to Further for this bonus episode. Brenton Graham. And I'm here with Chris Carr. This is something that we'd like to make semi-regular on the show.

00;00;26;07 - 00;00;52;07
Brenton
As cultural topics arise that we feel need addressed, this is a perfect platform to take the truth of God's Word and apply it. So hopefully these will help you think through these important issues biblically. Today we're talking about the recent Supreme Court ruling on Roe v Wade, the dove's decision, and what the church's next steps should be. Have we we crossed the finish line or is this is there still work to be done?

00;00;53;06 - 00;01;18;01
Brenton
If you're not familiar with the background of the original decision, you're not alone. I had to do some research on this, but luckily this topic has received a good amount of attention on Wikipedia. So here you go. The case was brought by Norma mcCorvey, under the legal pseudonym Jane Roe, who in 1969 became pregnant with her third child.

00;01;18;16 - 00;01;52;10
Brenton
mcCorvey wanted an abortion but lived in Texas, where abortion was illegal except when necessary to save the mother's life. Her lawyers filed a lawsuit on her behalf against her local district attorney, alleging that Texas abortion laws were unconstitutional. In January of 73, the Supreme Court issued a 7 to 2 decision in mcCorvey favor, holding that the due process clause of the 14th Amendment provides a fundamental right to privacy which protects a pregnant woman in her right to an abortion.

00;01;53;07 - 00;02;21;24
Brenton
The decision held that women in the United States had a fundamental right to choose whether to have abortions without excessive government restrictions. And striking down Texas and Texas abortion ban as unconstitutional. So this made abortion legal throughout the U.S. And since then, organizations like Planned Parenthood have have fought hard to keep it accessible. And it has been it's it's hard to find an accurate number.

00;02;22;07 - 00;02;54;21
Brenton
But according to the National Right to Life Committee, they estimate about 63 million abortions. But I think 50 plus is is definitely safe to say. Since 1973. And that's that's hard to even grasp. Recently, though, we've seen a little light in this very dark situation. And so, Chris, can you explain a little bit about what the Dubs decision was and what did it change?

00;02;56;00 - 00;03;03;29
Chris
So I'm no legal expert here. I mentioned in Britain before we started, maybe we should have had Kelly Baker on us with us.

00;03;05;16 - 00;03;06;11
Brenton
Issue and say.

00;03;07;01 - 00;03;41;02
Chris
But so in the Dubs decision, the Supreme Court ruled that abortion is not a constitutional right, which means it struck down Roe v Wade and it returned the issue to the states so that each individual state has the authority to regulate access to abortion on their own. And so it doesn't mean that abortion is banned. It simply means that there's not a constitutional right to it.

00;03;41;03 - 00;03;53;19
Chris
And so from a national standpoint, we just simply return it to each individual state to let the states determine how they are going to regulate abortion.

00;03;53;20 - 00;03;59;24
Brenton
Right. So has there been any real change since the decision was made?

00;04;00;08 - 00;04;36;06
Chris
I think that that's still a little hard to determine. I would say anecdotally from things I read and listen to it, it has made a change that and we know that some of the states they already had basically I think they're called trigger laws, so that the moment that Roe was struck down, that automatically these some of these states had laws that when the place that further restricted abortion than they were before.

00;04;36;06 - 00;05;01;15
Chris
No decision was made. And so it would seem that there are currently less abortions taking place than there were before the decision came down. Yeah, I don't know that anybody can verify that at this point, because we're not even then, you know, a year after the decision. But that's what I understand to be the case.

00;05;01;23 - 00;05;26;16
Brenton
Right. So specifically on this on this show, I mean, we want to we're not going to get into the political reasons here, but I think we want to give just a biblical view for how many Bible Church to to be able to examine these things and to think through them. And so I guess I'll start with why is this an important topic for the church to be involved in?

00;05;27;16 - 00;05;58;07
Chris
Yes, I think we can begin by going to the scriptures and seeing that all throughout the Scriptures. God's people are told that they are to uphold the value of life, of all life. I think we can very clearly see from the Bible that life begins at conception. And just for example, Psalm 51, David says that in sin, his mother can conceived him.

00;05;58;09 - 00;06;22;25
Chris
And so that probably needs a little explanation. But what it means there is that he was a sinner from the moment of conception. And the point that we're making here isn't so much about the sin, but the fact that life begins. He was he was a person very clearly a conception, someone 39. You mean together in my mother's womb.

00;06;22;26 - 00;07;01;22
Chris
And so life begins at conception. And the scriptures also show us that only God gives life and only God has the right to take life. So example would be Genesis nine six, where after the flood we see God reinstating what's called the creation of the cultural mandate to be fruitful and multiply. And in the context of that, God tells Noah, like don't shed blood because man is made in the image of God and each and every individual is made in God's image.

00;07;02;11 - 00;07;23;20
Chris
And so we're made like God and we're made to represent God. And that means that human life, from the very moment that the egg is fertilized by the sperm is immensely valuable. And so this is just a huge issue.

00;07;24;15 - 00;07;33;19
Brenton
Yeah, it is. What's your do you have any history with with or experience with this topic?

00;07;35;03 - 00;08;07;03
Chris
Well, this issue's always been significant for me because Roe v Wade came down literally a month after I was born. So it didn't quite make it to 50 years. And to praise God for that. But I turned 50 and in just basically at the same time that Roe v Wade would have turned 50 and so it's just a I think of the scope of of my lifetime.

00;08;07;17 - 00;08;38;07
Chris
And at a minimum, a million babies have been being killed pretty much every year during during that time through abortion. And so early on. And even I can go back to my high school days. I remember going to my my first crisis pregnancy center fundraising banquet. And I don't know what it was, but it was just something Even in those days, the Lord laid on my heart.

00;08;39;06 - 00;09;23;16
Chris
The church I was growing, going to at that time was involved with this issue. And then that ended up being the church that I went on to become a pastor at the first church that I pastored at. And that crisis pregnancy center is is is a pretty big center spread throughout northwest Indiana. I got pretty involved with that organization, had the privilege of being or playing a small part and seen it establish the first crisis pregnancy center in Gary, Indiana is an incredibly needy community right outside of Chicago.

00;09;24;01 - 00;10;02;16
Chris
And so it's just been an area of of a passion for me. And I've seen the need and I've also seen the opportunity and lots of great stories over years over, you know, people who are alive today because of the work of of of crisis pregnancy centers and who have come to saving faith in Jesus through that. And women and sometimes even instances, men, husbands who've come to face to through all that.

00;10;02;16 - 00;10;15;27
Chris
And so it's a great opportunity for the church to really fulfill our calling to none of just simply to make disciples, but also to care for the least of these.

00;10;16;25 - 00;10;44;00
Brenton
Truly the least of these, you know, I think we all know that there is a lot of heat around the subject, a lot of debate and a lot of emotions. And we hear a lot of objections to the Christian perspective, things like why do we care what what women do with their bodies, kind of indictments on what what's seen as a patriarchal society.

00;10;44;27 - 00;10;59;19
Brenton
And then one that we hear a lot is Christians aren't pro-life. They they only care about the unborn. And so, Chris, as a white male, what gives you the right to speak into this great.

00;11;00;17 - 00;11;27;20
Chris
Complicated question? I would say the reason that we care what women do with their bodies is because God cares what we all do with our bodies. So it really goes back to what I already mentioned, is that I, God, is the one who gives life, and God is the only one who has the right to to to take life.

00;11;28;14 - 00;12;11;22
Chris
And so I would also say that one of the reasons why we care what women do with their bodies is because we care about those women. Yeah. And the abortion industry is really good at hiding this or even outright at times lying about it. But abortion is harmful to not only the child for sure that's unquestioned, but it's harmful emotionally, physically, mental, lean and spiritually to the one women who have abortions.

00;12;12;17 - 00;12;43;12
Chris
And I know this from speaking to women who have had abortions. You I know it from there's well, there's just a lots of evidence in regards to it. If you're willing to go out and look at it. Abortion is a big business. And whenever something is a big business, you can you can guarantee that those who are making money off of it are going to do whatever they can to keep the money coming.

00;12;43;12 - 00;13;13;00
Chris
And that's not just true in this issue. It's true. And pretty much every issue, unless the people are led in and guided by it with integrity and ultimately probably by God's word. Yeah. And so I just want to stress that is that I think we oftentimes there's this narrative that abortion is safe and it's just it's not safe for the child and it's not safe for the for the women who engage in it.

00;13;13;00 - 00;13;50;24
Chris
And so we want or at least we should want what's best for for women. And abortion is is not what's best now. That being said, that doesn't simply mean, you know, like we just say, okay, we'll just just have you have a baby, all right? And you need to have your baby because on the other side, we we we I think, have been or can be accused of not always caring about children after they're born.

00;13;50;24 - 00;14;30;20
Chris
So the accusation that we aren't pro-life when they care about the unborn, it could or probably has at times has some validity. At least least we've given people that idea. And so at the same time, I want to say that there are a lot of Christians who not only care about the unborn, but they're involved in foster care, they're lost in adoption care, they're involved in the crisis pregnancy centers, where they're trained to come alongside and help women who make the choice, oftentimes a difficult choice, to keep their children.

00;14;30;20 - 00;15;04;06
Chris
And so I think we we have to be really careful that we are also advocating for for women, maybe even before they get pregnant. And how do we even address some issues that maybe would would help in regards to women who are in difficult circumstances and situations before before they they get pregnant. So I think we need a whole kind of a holistic approach to this when it gets in the patriarch Key question.

00;15;04;15 - 00;15;41;27
Chris
I'm not sure exactly how to respond to that, but I would say this is that men, we do need to do a better job of holding men accountable for their for their actions. And to and I think that this is something that we can hopefully advocate, maybe legally into our political system in regards to. There's, you know, if a man gets a woman pregnant, he can almost have no consequences.

00;15;42;01 - 00;15;55;11
Chris
And she's she's faced with all of the challenge of what that means. And so might there be some things that we can try to advocate for on that to. Yeah.

00;15;56;28 - 00;16;15;07
Brenton
This this conversation seems to always be talked about in a political context, right? So is this mostly a matter of us getting the right politicians elected? Does it Does voting straight Republican every election fulfill our duty in this area?

00;16;15;07 - 00;17;14;06
Chris
I would say absolutely not. And I think one of the things that we can look back and see for for a long, long time over the last 50 years is that having Republicans in office did little to nothing in regards to undoing Roe v Wade or actually limiting or reducing the number of abortions. And and so a lot of times Republicans have simply used this because they knew it was a way to get votes and then they would get into office and have the opportunity to actually make some changes to to vote for certain things that would perhaps provide some changes.

00;17;14;06 - 00;17;42;19
Chris
And they just didn't end up doing so because of maybe it would be attached to a bill where they needed money for this or that. And so I don't think it's simply getting politicians elected. And so here's one of the key things I'm going to say right now is we need understand this Dobbs decision. From my perspective and probably from majority of the perspective of those who are who are listening, it is is great.

00;17;42;19 - 00;18;07;25
Chris
We're really, really thankful for it. But but it's only it's only the start. And in fact, if you listen to many people who are on the front lines, it be like, now the the real work begins because now you have 50 different states that are going to either enact certain laws or each of the states is going to come up, of course, with their own kind of position in regards to this.

00;18;07;25 - 00;18;41;25
Chris
And so there's a lot more work to be done there. But we also need to understand that we we don't want to just simply I mean, we say for our future, we need to seek to persuade people that that abortion is is wrong and abortion is harmful and that there is a better way forward to this. And that simply and one of the reasons for that is, is that the legal landscape can change.

00;18;43;22 - 00;19;10;15
Chris
As we've seen, it's done drastically here in the last several years. It may not happen anytime soon, but but certainly it could within the next decade or two or three. And what's more, that again, we go back to the states and we don't want to just simply restrict what people can and can't do. We want to can convince them of the value of life.

00;19;11;14 - 00;20;01;15
Chris
And so we need to and this is one of the reasons that we're doing this podcast has been on my heart for for quite some time. And so we need to, I think, really not rest on our laurels, but to continue to to, to seek to uphold the value of life and to seek to persuade people that not only is what the Scriptures say true about life, not only is God's perspective the most important one on this, but then also what's what's best for individuals, what's best for our communities, What's best for our country is to have an abortion free United States.

00;20;02;00 - 00;20;28;29
Chris
Now that's now this is complex because it doesn't mean like we just want to say that we also again, we need to be coming alongside, not just restricted. No, no abortion, but how do we actually care for women, children and certainly men as well, and really people of all ages. And so it's a complex issue. But yeah, I think it'll be enough at this point.

00;20;29;03 - 00;20;59;26
Brenton
Yeah. So on one on one side of that, I mean, it's probably more important than ever to, to vote. Right. To get involved because these things are moving back to the state. It's no longer protected by the federal government. And so we do we do need to fulfill our our political obligations. But I think we also need to find candidates that we actually trust and that aren't just trying to get elected.

00;20;59;26 - 00;21;17;25
Brenton
And so but on on the other hand, the more important thing is to convince people to to talk to people, to talk to friends who don't think like you, to convince people of of the inherent value of image bearers of Christ.

00;21;18;18 - 00;21;45;00
Chris
So and I think that there's two things that I would add that are important here. One is nuance. We don't have a lot of nuance today in conversations that involve politics and that this issue is a is a complex issue. And sometimes we've just simply made it like, you know, it's really, really simple and it's not always really, really simple.

00;21;45;00 - 00;22;05;22
Chris
And, you know, there've been two approaches. There were two approaches to the the eliminating abortion or really undoing Roe, I should say. The one was we need to go, you know, we're going to go and it's all or nothing. And the other is we're going to chip away incremental over time. The incremental approach and the incremental approach is what won.

00;22;07;12 - 00;22;37;26
Chris
And and so we need nuance in regards to that. We also need civility. And so if we're going to persuade people, we we need to be civil in our conversations. And this is absent from almost all political discussion today in interaction. But but how how are we. Winsome Let's try to be winsome. And as we're persuading people, let's be kind, let's be gracious.

00;22;39;01 - 00;22;50;10
Chris
And so we're not angry, we're not angry about this. And so I think those are important things to consider as we move forward.

00;22;50;10 - 00;23;14;01
Brenton
Yeah, I guess if I could push back a little bit, I mean, we should we should be angry about it, right? I mean, we should we should be angry about about the death of unborn children. And so, yes, I agree that we should we should do this. And I think what you're saying is do it in a relationship, most of all, that maybe not standing out on the sidewalk, screaming at people is the best way to go.

00;23;14;01 - 00;23;18;29
Brenton
But this is something that that we should be fired up about.

00;23;18;29 - 00;23;41;19
Chris
Right. I know. That's a really great point. I take your rebuke so let's let's be angry and Senate, which is right. Really hard. Which is really hard to do because man's anger doesn't achieve the righteousness of God. Right. But we should be. Yeah, absolutely. We should be angry. And please don't hear me saying that, that we shouldn't. I don't mean that at all.

00;23;41;19 - 00;24;10;03
Chris
We and actually but I think we we we need to in fact, many of us maybe we need to be angrier about it in anger that's going to push us into action. But that what I meant by let's not be angry. I mean, let's not communicate in an angry way. Yeah. And again, if we go back to the podcast earlier this week, not a judgmental, condemning language and.

00;24;11;09 - 00;24;14;18
Brenton
In a way that we that we aim to see restoration in that.

00;24;14;18 - 00;24;41;16
Chris
Person. Right? So if I can use a historical example, William Wilberforce So he was the man primarily responsible for the abolishing of slavery in the British Empire, and he was really his life work. And, and I don't remember the exact number of years, but like he he fought for it for like 40 years and he was angry about it.

00;24;42;10 - 00;25;12;03
Chris
He had an anger for abolishing it, but he didn't he he didn't allow that out in in in an angry, judgmental, condemning way. He just over and over he he he fought. What I mean by fought is he just he brought it to parliament over and over and over again. He persuaded and he persuaded and he he spoke eloquently and he just tried to win people over.

00;25;12;03 - 00;25;25;29
Chris
And eventually he was able to do that. What a great, great testament. You got to read his biography some point if you have that opportunity, that there's a great one by Eric Metaxas. But that's what we're talking about.

00;25;26;20 - 00;25;28;25
Brenton
Yeah, those books are way too long for me to make it through.

00;25;29;24 - 00;25;30;15
Chris
I made it through.

00;25;30;15 - 00;25;32;06
Brenton
The part of Bonhoeffer and put it down.

00;25;32;21 - 00;25;34;18
Chris
Do you need books with pictures that I thought would.

00;25;34;29 - 00;26;01;23
Brenton
Be best you? So let's let's get a little more personal here and looking at Harmony as a response to this. So we don't have any abortion clinics per se here. It's maybe not in our face as much as it is in other parts of the country. How how can harmony still make an impact on this issue?

00;26;01;23 - 00;26;45;19
Chris
I think that we need to begin by going to the scriptures and allowing it to convict us of the need to be involved and the Bible has a whole lot to say, both Old Testament and New Testament, in regards to how God's people are to minister and to care for the poor, the oppressed, the widow, the orphan. And that that needs to be something that every single one of us gives ourselves to.

00;26;45;19 - 00;27;20;02
Chris
And in some way in so God's heart, God has a special place in his heart, if I can use that phrase for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, the poor, I would include probably the the unborn in that. And so we just need to allow the truth of God's word to maybe prick our hearts and say we need to get involved.

00;27;20;02 - 00;27;58;24
Chris
And then I think that this goes along with also recognizing that we have a real tendency in our Western culture to be very materialistic and being very materialistic. One of our chief goals is comfort and recognizing that being in involved in caring for for people in difficult circumstances is going to be uncomfortable and we're going to be willing to to to allow ourselves to remain uncomfortable.

00;27;58;24 - 00;28;43;15
Chris
And and we're not going to seek our comfort above God's call to to care for people in need. And so with with that basis, then I think we've got to take intentional action, like we're going to use our our time, our talents and our treasure in some way to to get involved, whether it would be in foster care, whether it would be adoption, whether it would be at a crisis pregnancy center, whether it would be in like, for example, for harmony being a part of City Hope and the various ministries that come involved in that.

00;28;44;04 - 00;29;30;03
Chris
And I think that everybody understands abortion is very, very much on my heart and my family's hearts played a big part in our story over the last decade. In fact, this Saturday will mark the ten year anniversary of us adopting our two kids. So it's gonna be a special day. And and I think is is the church understanding that adoption uniquely pictures the gospel that it uniquely represents how God has adopted us and and so it's a it's a gospel opportunity certainly for the kids that are being adopted.

00;29;30;03 - 00;30;00;26
Chris
It's certainly a gospel opportunity for the watching world. And it's also, if I can just be honest, it's been a gospel opportunity for me because I've learned a lot about God's adoption of me through my adoption of my kids. And I'm I'm going on here a little bit off track maybe, But it's it I think that we also can understand that.

00;30;00;26 - 00;30;41;25
Chris
Well, we don't necessarily we're not necessarily going to be the ones who maybe are fostering or adopting. That may not be possible for forever. In fact, it's not possible for everybody. But we can support and we can help those who are doing that. And so I think it's like one of our the key things that we want to strive for is we want to strive for a culture of life where we value life and how do we how do we we we work towards seeing that culture be developed and we can do it in a whole variety of ways.

00;30;41;25 - 00;31;04;05
Chris
I think we we do it in regards to like children. We're really going to we're not going to see children as kind of a nuisance. Okay. Or, you know, something like you kind of give ourselves to fear for a few years of of our life or whatever. But like, children are valuable, precious. And so with all children come to me, we've got that.

00;31;04;05 - 00;31;25;18
Chris
And then on the other side, we've got this. We're going to value the the elderly to we don't do that a lot in our culture at all. It's actually the opposite of what it was true in the Bible, like the elders were the the you know, were the people who were the maybe I don't say the most value, but they were certainly the ones who were looked up to and were treated with respect.

00;31;26;01 - 00;31;59;23
Chris
I think we want to do this in regards to regardless of, you know, what age someone is, regardless of what physical or mental limitation they might have, regardless certainly of what ethnic background they come is like everybody's valuable, everybody's worthy. And how do we love and care for and serve all those people? And there's something that we can all do.

00;31;59;23 - 00;32;23;00
Chris
And so some people can do more that more than others. Not again, not everyone's been called to adopt or called to foster or call to be in a crisis pregnancy center or call to minister to two women who've been in sex trafficking or anything like that. But we all can be involved in some way. And so having a willingness to do that I think is key.

00;32;23;21 - 00;32;53;24
Brenton
Yeah, there's a lot of different ways to get involved and the church has a lot of different skills that can be used. And so we need to be faithful to that. The the exception to what I asked earlier about this issue, maybe not being in our face locally is I think our young people, our high school to to college aged people are getting getting this shoved in their face a lot.

00;32;54;16 - 00;33;12;22
Brenton
Right. This is this is the ages that most of these are happening. And so do you have any specific suggestions or advice for them as they as they face this kind of onslaught of of the abortion issue?

00;33;13;26 - 00;33;50;02
Chris
I do. I in some ways will begin by repeating what I said earlier is we need to understand as believers that the Bible teaches some courtrooms here. One, only God can give life, and therefore only God has the right to take life. The idea that it's my body, it's my choice is unbiblical. And it's unbiblical because what I just said is also unbiblical because our bodies aren't his.

00;33;50;13 - 00;34;18;29
Chris
They're they're. They're ours. They're his. And this is especially true believers, places for sacred things. You know, six. You were not your own. You were bought with a to glorify God with your body. And I see this mentality even in Christian young people, they have this idea that nobody can tell them what to do with their body. And it's just it's just not true.

00;34;19;21 - 00;34;43;08
Chris
And it's also damaging to us when we have that mentality because the word or only and this really goes back to what we were talking about last week, we're only going to flourish in life when we live in the way that God has designed us and called us to live. And we've been designed and created to live for his glory and to honor him above all else.

00;34;43;08 - 00;35;04;16
Chris
And it's only then that we're truly going to be free and we're truly going to flourish and we're certainly going to be we joyful and we're truly going to be happy. And so we would also go on to say that again, and I know I'm repeating myself here, but these things are so important that they bear repeating abortion.

00;35;04;16 - 00;36;12;07
Chris
Just it's not safe for women in it. It has in many cases, many instances, devastating consequences. And so this idea of safe abortion, where you can terminate a pregnancy and everything is going to be okay, it's just it's not it's not reality. And and so understanding that that is the case, I think it's also worth mentioning that the this situation that we're in is one of the consequences of the sexual revolution in that, you know, once, you know, everybody should be free to have sex with whomever, whoever, whenever or wherever and I want to speak to young ladies in particular here, the people who get harmed the most by this are women and children.

00;36;12;07 - 00;37;03;03
Chris
Is that and it is true that men have taken advantage of this and that men in many cases will may simply will be able to get what they want and with no repercussions for it whatsoever, and that women and then children are also often left holding the bag. And so this is why, again, following what God's word has to say about things like marriage and sex is so important that when we follow God's plan, then the the the need for abortion is eliminated.

00;37;04;09 - 00;37;43;16
Chris
Yeah, but yeah. So I just think that for young people to recognizing that a lot of times we're being formed more by the culture. The culture says in influencers and I saw this a lot when the Dobbs decision came down and was saddened by a lot of Christian people, mostly young people, who were, you know, retweeting things by whether it be celebrities or voices in opposition to this and not thinking it through a biblical lens.

00;37;45;01 - 00;37;56;10
Brenton
So, yeah, so I was going to end it here, but it's kind of a downer. Yeah, well, she give us a little hope here.

00;37;56;10 - 00;38;26;23
Chris
Give us a little hope. Yeah. So I'll, I'll end with hope in a couple of different ways. One in this probably would have been a good place to start. There is hope for anybody who has had an abortion or who has been a part of someone having an abortion, because the gospel tells us that through Jesus, all of our sins can be forgiven.

00;38;28;02 - 00;39;03;15
Chris
All of them and so I just want everybody to know who's listening here, whether it's you that's that's been a part of an abortion or someone that's you, you know, love that there's hope and there's grace and there's forgiveness and there's healing in regards to that. And that's, you know, the ultimate hope is that the gospel can bring healing and it will bring healing if we will lean into it and allow it to do its good work on in our lives.

00;39;03;15 - 00;39;29;14
Chris
And then I also want to give some hope in regards to just encouraging really our church that I really do believe there is a culture of life at Harmony Bible Church and each and every Sunday have the opportunity to see adopted children or children who are being fostered by the people of Harmony. Bible Church come in the doors of our church.

00;39;29;14 - 00;39;57;25
Chris
And it's it's one of my greatest joys just to be able to see that whenever I see a child that clearly does not look like their parents or the family that they're with, it actually brings me joy because it's just as it's a great testimony to how the people of Harmony Bible Church are just really making a difference in this area through it.

00;39;57;25 - 00;40;24;29
Chris
I really think being a great example and being a great testimony to the gospel. And so I'm hoping that this podcast will will help that to occur occur even more. I'm hoping that maybe through this podcast that there will be some children who become a part of our church who maybe would have never seen the light of day through that.

00;40;25;16 - 00;40;46;19
Chris
And I also want to say that it really invite anybody who struggles with this issue, have questions or concerns, or maybe finds themselves in a difficult position, a difficult place. I don't want you to think, but by what we have shared here, that there there is a lack of grace or understanding. Again, I go back again to last week.

00;40;46;19 - 00;41;06;16
Chris
We want to be a people of truth and grace. So I think it's important, absolutely essential that we understand the truth, but that we want to have grace for people and in particular in regards to this issue. And that's what you will find if you need it. Yeah.

00;41;06;25 - 00;41;40;27
Brenton
We of of all people should be hopeful and be encouraged. CHURCH It's a it's a great thing to be able to see that that our members are adopting kids are are helping people that are in need that are that are truly trying to take rough situations to bring bring the gospel to it. So thank you for that because I hope this episode was helpful.

00;41;40;27 - 00;41;50;12
Brenton
I don't know how we're going to schedule these yet, but they'll have them sporadically, so be looking for them. But thank you, Chris.

00;41;50;12 - 00;42;17;07

And we'll talk to you next time.