Peers

You know , I feel like we spend a lot of time in our kink journeys searching for our counterparts , the daddy to our boy or the pet to our mistress . And yes , of course we do that and I don't want to discourage that in any way , but I do want to talk about the value of also searching for our peers .

So in this episode we're going to be considering all the advantages that come with peer connections , what they can offer us , some of the challenges to forming them and some of the ways you might overcome those challenges to create peer networks of your own .

As always , I'll be sharing a little bit of my experience and doing not so much a how-to but a really sort of thoughtful reflection on how these sorts of connections might get started . Then we have an interview with my boy , Ben , before doing some Ask Edge questions . All in all , I think it's a pretty good episode , so let's get started .

If you've followed my podcast for any considerable length of time , you may already know that I spent a significant chunk of my kink journey on the bottom boy identified , but in that period I do not recall having any peer networks or peer connections .

I had a number of mentors through my journey and I should probably pause here because those terms really often can collapse into one another and I want to be a little bit clearer on what I mean when I use them .

For me , when I talk about mentors , I mean men who were older and dominant and who I learned from , often in service to them , and my concept of a peer is someone who at least has the same kink identity role as you , probably maybe also closer to your own age , and that's not a given .

And it's not true that peers can't mentor and it's not true that mentors can't be peers . But I do want to distinguish these sort of close nurturing connections across lines of the dominant submissive spectrum versus within one side of that spectrum . So I never had a lot of peers .

So I think it's not that those networks weren't available to me , it's that my inclination was not to pursue them .

So as I moved into the start of my kink journey , it would not have occurred to me to make these supportive peer networks . That shifted slightly when I moved into that space of dominance , and not significantly .

But what I discovered over the last 20 years is that I tend to have in my life you know , you only have so many friendship receptor sites , and one of those is always kind of occupied by my leather best friend .

And my leather best friend is someone I will have cigars with or we'll get together in gear or we'll go to the bar together , and right now it is Mentor Dadsir , off of Instagram . In fact I'm recording this .

On a Saturday and tomorrow we're having our monthly cigars and ketchup , and before that it was this wonderful guy , tim , who's still very special to me , and then before that it was a guy named Mike . So there's always just been one leather friend .

But that's sort of been my peer connection , and that's especially true for me now with Mentor Dadsir , because we're about the same age , we have about the same interests and we're both sort of very dominant identified , and so that's the space where we talk about what's going on in our King Climes , where we talk about what's going on with our boys , what's going

on in our different relationships , items of gear , events . He has really become for me my dominant peer network that I have no shame in talking about challenges I'm facing .

In my dominant relationships I can seek counsel and advice without feeling shamed or less than , and it's a really beautiful , mutually supportive kind of friendship and I see that going forward , I see myself always having that one leather friend , but increasingly I think it will be my dominant peer of one .

It's also worth noting that , in addition to mentors and peers , there's this whole other group of peers I'm acutely aware of , and that is my leather generational peers . A lot of times when we think about generations , we think in terms of age millennials , zelenials , I'm Gen X boomers these are people who were all born during certain years .

But if we think about a leather generation , it's not about your chronological age , it's really about your leather age . When were you born as a leather person and when I think about my leather peers , I think about people who had common sets of leather experiences that sort of cluster us together into a loose affiliation .

So I'm talking about people who remember the site Bootjack , who remember Leather Navigator , who remember when Folsom Street East got started , who remember the old Spike and Eagle , who remember when the lure opened , who remember Pork Knight , who remember when the lure closed . We remember America Online , irc .

All these things and that common set of experiences positions us in a way that's different from the leather generation that may have come before us , that may have experienced the mine shaft my leather generation did not and the leather generation coming after us , which is far more virtual , because my generation , my leather generation , was the transitional generation , so ,

when I think about my leather peers , we are people who were reading Drummer magazine , international , leatherman Bowden Gagged writing letters , answering ads in the back , and then we were people who moved online . We were the generation that really were the first leather generation .

We moved leather online through our actions and through expressing our desire in virtual spaces . I deeply respect my leather peers and I feel like I have some connection with all of them . Again , only so many friendship receptor sites . It's not like , oh , my leather peers are my best friends .

No , but at any given event , I could probably be in a room and point at the people who are my leather peers . I could say hello to them , I can chat with them because , you know , we've been around for a really long time at this point and we know of each other .

To be sure , often we've had some interaction at some point and there's a beautiful sort of comfort that is crafted in part through nostalgia . So these are people that I can talk about . The quote good old days . They weren't great , but they have a shared set of memories that is comforting to participate in .

And then these are people who are maybe facing similar challenges in their leather journeys , just based on how long we have been journeying and they're not all dominance right . So there I have boys and slaves and and pups and people of all kink identities who are part of my leather generational peers that I feel deeply connected to as well .

So I'm really not a great person to be talking about the super duper value of peer networks , because when I was a boy I did not have one . As I moved into dominance , my peer network is micro as one person , and even if I think about this leather generational peer , there are people that I'm loosely affiliated with but not deeply connected to , nevertheless .

Nevertheless , I am going to argue that peer connections are incredibly sustaining and nurturing and valuable , and I will talk about that in the next segment .

I first became aware of the power of these sorts of peer groups through the boy who changed my life , who you may recall from previous podcast episodes , and this boy has a small , very tight group of boy friends , meaning friends who are boys .

They have a group chat , they go to the bar together , they go to events together , they go to movies together and they support each other , and through him I've been able to see the sort of beautiful power that's enabled by this small group of connected peers supporting each other through a long and sometimes very challenging kink journey .

Since then , looking back , I've realized that I've known other such peer groups . Back when there was a South Florida boys of leather , there was a smaller group within that group of older boys , and I mean boys in their 60s and up , and these boys would meet every week for coffee , creating that same sort of peer connected network .

I'm also aware of a similar phenomenon through my boy in Phoenix who is a member of the Phoenix boys of leather but then also has from that group , this subgroup of people that he is learning to be very connected to . Obviously , one of the themes here is that a lot of times these peer connected groups emerge out of leather groups .

The ones I'm most aware of all come from boys of leather groups and I don't know that that's necessarily required , but it certainly enables and fosters these sorts of connections because it is a group that is about forming fraternal , sibling-like bonds and within that group you can find people you really connect with that those bonds sustain outside and beyond the group

. I would think that therefore , these sort of peer connections are also possible in any sort of leather group and I'm not really a leather group sort of person , so I'm speculating a little bit here . But if we think about leather groups or kink groups in general , they bring people together with some common interests and often a very common kink identity .

If we think about boys groups , and they are focused on social activities , service activities , they foster friendships and then those friendships can become quite deep , and that is really what we're aiming for in these peer connected groups .

You know , this whole idea for this podcast came from an original video series I did for Twitter and Instagram where I talked about this , and part of what I talked about was what I saw as the challenges of similar peer groups for dominant , identified people .

And in the comments a couple of people said well , actually I'm dominant and I have my peer group , and I found that extremely heartening .

But I do think that there are challenges for a similar type of group among dominant peoples , and a lot of that has to do with a series of cultural misunderstandings we carry to the notion of dominance that are both created within our culture but often inherited from the larger culture .

So , for example , one of the things we tend to think is that dominant people need to know things and somehow , if you know less , you are less . And yes , absolutely . There's a set of knowledge and skills needed when you're a dominant person .

You need to know how to flog , you need to know how to tie someone , you need to know how to put needles in someone's skin . But just because you don't know everything doesn't mean that admitting to your peers should be at all intimidating , even though it certainly can feel that way If the expectation is that you're dominant , identified somehow .

I think there's an expectation that you're supposed to know what you're doing in all these situations , particularly among your peers , and therefore it is intimidating if you want to admit that you don't know . Of course , the truth is no one is born knowing kinky things . We all had to learn at some point .

So I think we need to disperse this notion of intimidation and , trust me , we really want to be encouraging a culture of education . I think the other problem with this notion that quote unquote dominance know how to do things and it's true they have a certain skill set , but part of what that does is obscure the knowledge that submissives need to have .

So you need to know how to be flogged , and that means knowing how to stand , knowing how to breathe , knowing how to process pain , knowing how to nudge your ego aside and just be present for someone else as they do things to you . So I don't want to create this dichotomy where dominance know things and submissives have things done to them .

They're both actively doing and require sets of knowledges around that . I think it's easier for submissive people to ask for instruction . I think culturally they are expected to somehow ask . First of all , they're the askers and I think also there's an understanding that they need to be trained . That's built into the dynamic as we play it out .

The second issue I find in creating dominant peer groups is we tend to operate with certain ecological metaphors in our community that are centered around predation . So we talk about hunting for a boy or hunting for my perfect pet and I , the one I'm guilty of is I'll send a sexy photo and I'll say I'm baiting the trap .

And hunting in predation ends up framing intimate relationships in an economy of scarcity , meaning your gain is my loss and you know what . That's not the way it works . Now . The truth is we're not in abundance . I'd love to say that we're simply not in an economy of scarcity when it comes to kink that we're in an economy abundance , but we're not .

We are a sub community of a sub community and , depending on what your kinks are , you might be a sub , sub sub community , but abundance is not the factor , because you could have a zillion available kink partners or only 10 .

And I would like to argue that doesn't necessarily impact your ability to connect , because connection isn't based on the number of numbers , it's based on something ineffable , something chemical , something that allows two people to connect and they will connect no matter how many other people are around .

So I don't want to buy into this notion of scarcity that comes out of the metaphor of predation , and I also don't want to be sitting in envy or jealousy when I have a dominant friend who gets a boy , because I like my friends to be happy . So I try to resist the ecological metaphor .

The other thing that I think makes dominant peer groups challenging and this is particularly true of male identified dominant peer groups , and that has to do with toxic masculinity .

So , as dominant male identified men , we tap into all kinds of hyper masculinity in the way we dress , in our aesthetic , our attitude , the way we stand , the way we carry ourselves , and that's fantastic , it's super hot . Obviously , if you've seen me in leather , I like tapping into hyper masculinity .

But the challenge is sometimes when we tap into hyper masculinity we also get all the baggage that comes with it from the wider culture .

And so we think men don't show weakness , men don't show emotions , men don't cry , that's all bullshit , right , and that can inhibit us from being open with our peers , because weakness is not coded as masculine in the larger culture total bullshit .

And I think there's actually something beautiful and strong and courageous when we're able to cry in front of our peers because we feel safe with them . That's the goal . We should feel safe with them . And if you're secure enough in your masculinity , however it's manifested , then that should not be a problem .

We should be able to opt out of the toxic side of masculinity because we decide it's bullshit and we don't want to play into that , and that actually in itself is extremely powerful to sort of be secure in who you are , freeze you from the judgment of others in a way that is extremely powerful .

The last issue I see in creating these dominant peer groups has to do for me with a lack of aspirational models , and in fact there's a heavy presence of deaspirational models . So if I'm thinking , hmm , a group of dominant male friends , what could that look like ?

What could that look like , my mind goes to high school and thinks of jocks , cool kids and bullies . And these are the models , are things I would never be a part of . I wouldn't know how to be a part of them . They were things I could never do and I was the target of these groups .

So my personal history with dominant male peer groups is a history of trauma . Not only do I not get them , because I was never a part of them , but I fear how they operate and what they did to me .

And that means really reimagining what a dominant peer group can be from scratch , which frees us to create the group we want it , the group we as we desire it to be , instead of building off of existing models which may be very flawed .

I have started to create a small dominant peer network , and none of these things are at play , and so I'd like to talk a little bit about how that happened for me , as a model for how other people may create their own peer networks , no matter what their kink identity is .

So we've already said look if you , if you join any sort of leather group , boys of leather , or just a leather group . You already have a good chance of creating some sort of close network because you're in an organization that is meant to foster connections between its members , and so , yeah , that's a great start .

I'm not a group person that is not how I would ever do it but I think for me , what I need to do is not think about how do I get my peer group , but to really think about how do I get really good friends and as an introvert with only so many friends , with only so many friendship receptors , that in itself can be a little challenging .

So I think if you want to form your own kink identity , peer network , start by building a friendship . And when we build friendships , the important thing for me when I'm building friendships is trust . And the way you establish trust in my world is making sure that your words match your actions .

So if you say we're going to meet for coffee , you show up for coffee . If you can't make it , you communicate that . You give me new words that represent new actions . Hey , let's do it next week instead . I also make sure that my words match my actions .

We are building trust that we can count on people to do what they say , that their words matter and that they value your time and your words as well . Once I've established trust with someone , then I can begin to risk vulnerability .

So I can say things like you know , sometimes in the middle of the scene , I'm not sure I'm enough , I feel like an imposter , and I can see how they respond to that vulnerability . Do they identify with it , do they support me through it ? Do they deflect , do they shut down the conversation .

I'm looking for people who can hold that conversation open , who are open to my vulnerability because we've built the foundation of trust and open to it in a way that offers me support , that's not heavy-handed , that's not dismissive of my own experiences . From there , that's the start of your peer group right , and then maybe the both of you find another friend .

Invest in that friendship , have your words matching actions , risking vulnerability , and from there it can grow . I think the place to look for these sorts of friendships is not the bar , is not the apps , because in those spaces that are fairly sexualized , your peers , your kink peers , are looking for their counterparts and not for you .

So if you're at the bar , boys are looking for daddies , boys are not looking for other boys . If you're online , daddies are looking for boys , not for other daddies . So those sexualized spaces can obscure a little bit the possibility for peer-identified connections .

You might want to think about looking at events instead , or sites like FetLife which is I always call it kinky Facebook , that have sexual components , have sexual identity components but aren't as necessarily only centered on sex .

And in fact I would think I love an event like Claw , because there are so many classes and that's an opportunity for me to create these networks of friendships If we're all at the same class . I shake up a conversation afterwards . We say , hey , let's go have a cigar on the cigar deck . Oh yeah , what are you doing for dinner ?

Right , that can develop into something , because we're in a space that's sexually charged but isn't about sex per se .

If you don't have the ability to make it to an event or FetLife can be a little hit or miss because it's virtual you might want to think about going to your local community center , if you have one , and if not , you might want to look for anyone kinky , anyone near you , because that's the start of something Ideally .

Ideally , somewhere near you , somewhere you can drive to , there is visible kink community , and by visible I mean it's a bar night , it's a event , it's a bar , it's something where you can see people in leather , you know where to go find them and ideally that is also a place without necessarily a sexual hunt .

I will also say boy groups , as I've noted , seem particularly good at creating boy networks , because I've known lots of boy networks that came out of a lot of boy groups . Boys of leather groups have a challenge . I know many of them that no longer exist .

And groups are hard to start with and maintaining a group is hard and there are internal dynamics and politics , and so every group is challenged . But I know locally here in Fort Lauderdale one of the things I felt happened was that other groups had a tendency to exploit the boys group here . That's my perception .

I'm not claiming that as fact , but there would be a lot of hey boys , we're having an event , can you work the door ? Hey boys , we're having an event , can you help us set up ? Hey boys , we're having an event , can you do this for us ? That was my perception .

And then so I feel like there was this overload of service expectations on our local boys group that may have contributed to its eventual decline and disappearance . So once you do find a friend , once you do build some trust , then you know what , like any friendship , you wanna invest time in that . You wanna make plans , and fun plans .

Let's go to a movie , let's go see Barbie , let's go see Oppenheimer , let's go have brunch , let's go have lunch , let's go have dinner . Food is great for these , right ? You don't need to say , oh , let's talk about everything , kink , you just need to have fun with your friends and then eventually that I think that peer support emerges and folds in .

I will say from my introverted experience that this is a very slow , challenging process for me . My current dominant peer Mentor Dads .

I mean he was sort of an acquaintance for years and he kind of understood that I was just like not a person who made a lot of friends and I don't know quite at what point our friendship became very close , but I'm grateful that it did Because he's an important , very important person in my life and in my leather life .

He's one of the people I can talk to , everything going on in my life , leather , and that's pretty valuable to me . So I don't think , depending on your ability to make friends , I don't think peer network groups are easy . Depending also on the size and variety of the community near you , they could be quite challenging because of that as well .

I'm not saying any of this is easy . I'm saying that at least put it on your radar , at least when you're in spaces . Don't always be looking for that person you wanna go home with or that person who's gonna be your next wonderful partner .

Also , look for people who are like you , who are just cool and fun and you wanna hang out with , because those connections will often last much longer than the next partner you find . Those connections will get you through the end of the next relationship you have .

And that's the beautiful thing about these peer network groups they understand you because on some level they are you , they're like you , they have the same desires , the same challenges , the same triumphs .

That's why I think we should at least be open to finding and making and treasureing the peer network groups when we can , and I am proud and pleased to welcome my boy , ben , to Full Cow . Hey boy , welcome to Full Cow .

I always knew I was kinky , but I met up with a friend who was really infesting . That was something that I was trying at the time and then , just through mutual friends , I found myself at the boys and the rest has been history .

Our community is very broad and made up of many more people than just people who identify as leather boys . People with all gender , shape , sizes , and everybody you can possibly imagine shows up at the boys , especially these days .

It's got to be such a huge community and that's a very good thing , and I would say that also because I'm very fascinated by history and leather history that that's something that I've definitely gotten from a lot of my peers . That's a value from them .

We go get dinner before our boys meetings , which is Thursday nights , and so before it will go get dinner , and we created a big telegram group just so that we could figure out where we're going for dinner that night . And it kind of just turned into the boys and friends and it's chaotic sometimes . It's very lovely .

Everybody's kind of showing what their days are like , and we still , of course , use it for finding places for some grub before meetings , but it's a very nice way for us all to check in , but it's also sort of a daily conversation or how . Yeah , it's more than just on Thursdays , it's every day .

It's a great place for us to connect with anybody that's in our community . I know everybody wanted to go see Oppenheimer and everyone wanted to go see Barbie , so they made that happen through those chats . Just pretty cool .

Do you feel like you are forming these close connections , which is a couple members of the group that could persist whether or not the group existed anymore , or anything like that ?

I mean , you're not going to get along with everybody , but we all consider ourselves brothers and , in terms of brotherhood , that family connection that we share something really important to us , which is being Leather Boys .

But at the end of the day , I've made very close friendships through the group that people that I'm texting every day , all day sometimes , and so yeah . I think those sorts of relationships are really a test of time and they're what really keep everything glued together .

I also love that you pointed out a little bit some of the challenges of groups and can you talk broadly , without getting into details , some of the challenges of having a peer group in general ?

I don't know exactly the specific things , I don't know if that's something we really want to talk about , but I I think for us what we do best is we know who is a good fit and we allow the people who are there to start problems or inevitably have something that's rubbing against the grain in the wrong way . That really does not mesh with what we are .

Those people tend to kind of fall by the wayside , and that works for us and those people who unfortunately don't tend to show up very often sometimes they come back and that's good , but we all I think that's how we kept going for so long- how long have you all been going ? Oh gosh , I'm probably the worst person to ask that .

I want to say I should have this all pulled up .

There are a couple of people that I've never met but through , usually through P-Ball events , because , frankly , a lot of Phoenix , our leather events , are structured around the boys . We do have other communities nearby . We just happen to be the biggest , so we have a lot of things going on .

So I've met a lot of boot blacks through our Waxabare fundraiser , which is like our biggest thing and it's super fun . Criminal , it's simply criminal .

Yeah , but I've met a lot of really awesome people that way and just meeting those people , meeting individual people who are just really awesome . You just start to communicate with people . Honestly , facebook for me has been the holy grail of leather communication .

I've found that it's really easy to get in contact with people and I've met a lot of boot blacks that way . We have our own and this is the largest amount of boot black communication that we have is through the Facebook group . We do have a boot blacks Facebook group where we can talk to people from all over the world , for example , alistair .

We've recently just won International Mr Boot Black our previous , hopefully not last- International hopefully not last IMBB . We're all constantly chatting there , sharing tricks of the trade , talking about the things that went on with IML in the last year . Certainly it's been an open discussion there .

I actually was turned off of Leather the community for a long time just because I was quite young and at 18 I looked much younger than 18 , certainly , and so that turned a lot of people off from wanting me to show up to munches , because even these munches were 18 and up . You didn't have to be 21 to show up to munches .

I'm from Rochester , new York , and so formerly .

, so they would do .

They definitely kept that aesthetic through the remaining years , but anyways , we went off on a tangent for munches , but anyways , munches are great . They're a great place to meet people . I think that they're . For the most part , they'll let you know on their websites .

If you're looking like , just search your local city , the closest one to you see if they have a leather group or any sort of BDSM group . They probably have a munch or some sort of event like that .

I would say it's more of a leather , leather , cis , male centric I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it male identifying centric dating app or hookup app .

And or even if you know that there's a local leather group nearby , send a message to somebody that you've been talking to hey , have you ever been to so and so like leather groups , socials . And if they say , yes , I go to them every week you should come to , or however often they have them go .

You know one person already , even if you don't know anything about them . You sent them maybe five messages . A lot of the time that person's going to be really excited is even happy there .

But for me what I did was , like I said , I met up with a friend I was into trying fisting at the time this is not so much sorry . This was when I moved to Phoenix .

I think Buffalo now has a pretty big leather scene that's starting to grow for a smaller city in New York .

I know people who live in Tucson that come up to Phoenix and for those of you don't live here , it's about , I say , an hour and a half hour , 45 minute drive , maybe more , and they don't come very often , right , but it's they come up for like a gear night or like a really big event like Waxabare .

You know , you go , you talk to people enough and you go enough times you start to make friends . We have people who are considered official friends of the boys that don't live anywhere near here . A lot of people who have been members have moved far away . So the best thing for you to do is just try it .

Try and meet somebody , because you might make a really good friend and those kinds of relationships last all in time .

If you're identify a submissive , you want to find other submissives , because usually on recon you're looking for your dream daddy or the perfect master , but when you're getting together with someone else who's identifies the way you do , you're both boys or you're both slaves or whatever sexes off the table , and then you just focus on that friendship .

And I think you're really hitting the nail on the head when you talk about that friendship and investing in it and forming it and then growing that friendship network , because that sort of creates the support network .

I will say that sex with other boys is some of the best sex that you can have , and the reason why is because you're not pressured into having to be the best Dom that somebody wants , or you don't that you you know there's no pressure there , but it's also like I've seen many of my brothers flogged my other brothers and have a lot of fun with it , because

it's like we're not usually on that side of the playroom , so it can be . It could be a lot of fun to just try new things with people , and then you might figure out that you're into something else , that maybe you're not just the other boy you know .

Maybe you've got other things there that you want to explore , and that's that's why I think spaces like the Phoenix Boys of Leather are really important , because we get to explore those things with each other in a safe space .

At some point you identified as a boy and you have that boy spirit in you , even if you've kind of outgrown it a little . I personally don't believe that that's possible . I think that I think everybody has a little bit of a boy in them .

I think even the best daddies have a little bit of boy in them , a little bit of excitement , a little bit of wonder and that maybe was a controversial thing to say . I think even that can go to masters and slaves too Anybody . And I think it all depends on what being a boy means to you , and that's a conversation that we have regularly .

Slash leatheredge , lthredge , and both of those links are in the show notes . The first question for this episode comes from my good Twitter friend , mr Rogers . He writes Do you have any thoughts , slash experiences when it comes to the concept of leather families , slash households ? I ask because it's become something with differing layers for me .

I think about being a part of a leather household as an intimate polyrelationship in the quote unquote traditional family sense , while also acknowledging that it's this open concept I've built around me already with the folks I tend to lean on when it comes to leather . Slash kink , and I love that he's identifying those two layers that my leather family is .

My group of leather friends , actually Mr Rogers , is part of my leather family , but there is this other sort of polycule notion of a leather family , which is a group of leather folk living together in the same house with differently structured relationships , and I don't have any direct experience with that sort of household , leather family .

I know there are a couple here in Fort Lauderdale so I've seen them at a distance and they work fairly well . You know there are always issues in any sort of polyamorous situation because the dynamics can get quite complex , but I've seen very stable leather households here in Fort Lauderdale so I certainly know it's possible .

My familiarity with leather family is that second notion . It is the people I call my brothers , my sisters , my others right , my siblings , the people who I feel are very close to me and inside my orbit , within the leather world , and that is not all , just , you know , boys who serve me .

It's also , for example , I have two very dear friends in Atlanta that I think the world of and that I would consider part of my leather family as well . This is not in any way formalized . None of these people probably even know they're part of my leather family .

It's not like we use familial terms , but the bond there is there for me and significant for me and I think , there for some of them as well . So if you're thinking in terms of family moving towards a household , I would recommend Polysecure . It's a book that is about more complex forms of polyamorous relationships .

You should also , of course , read the ethical slut . I think those are good starting points if you want to think about this notion of a household . But if you're thinking more generally in terms of family , as in the bonded family , of choice connections we make , those things will come , and in fact it's a very appropriate question for this episode on peers .

Our next question comes from Dylan .

But my question is what is your view about younger guys or , I guess in some cases , guys who can be perceived as twinkish , getting into cigars and smoking cigars themselves ? For me it is something that I'm very you know . I've had a few cigars in my life and I love it and I really want to become an avid smoker .

But I am I don't know if you can tell by my voice pretty twinkie not entirely , but enough to where . At a first look it is weird and I'm afraid to go out like in a public space and smoke . So I'm just curious about what your opinion about guys like that are .

So I don't want us to ever think about other kinds of bodies being less than and that's hard , because there are certain leather archetypes that circulate in the kink community that you think , oh , that is the body . But it's worth noting that every body is a fetish .

The second thing is cigars are fantastic because they cross all these lines of class and therefore can pop up in all kinds of situations . And the specific thing I'm thinking about here is let's see . Let's see who , what kind of young , smooth , shaven , lean guy might be smoking a cigar . Oh frat boy , jock , groomsman at a wedding , new father .

There's already an erotic template for younger quote unquote twink guys to be smoking cigars . That means it is erotically legitimate . Not only is it just legitimate if you're into cigars , guess what ? Smoke cigars . It is erotically legitimate because you are stepping into a certain fantasy .

The last thing I'll say is that the cigar community tends to be pretty low key and friendly . If I'm out at most any bar and see anyone smoking a cigar , it's very easy to strike up conversation hey , what are you smoking ? Oh , that's great . I haven't tried that . Where are you getting your cigars from ? Oh , that's a great shop .

And therefore , if you're in a context that has cigar smokers , you probably won't be judged . Finally it is important to take that leap of faith . If this is your fetish , then go out in public and enjoy it . Be who you are . No one's going to look at you as scant .

Now , some people don't like cigars , but guess what they're going to not like cigars , no matter what your body looks like . But there's nothing funny looking about younger quote unquote twink guy smoking cigars . It is hot in a very specific erotic context .

That context won't resonate for everyone , but it will resonate and it is both functionally legitimate ie you have the right to live your fetish and it is erotically legitimate , which means there's a fantasy and you're about to step into it . Thanks for the question , and our last question comes from Tobes in the UK .

But in all seriousness , I just love that you've shared again the social side of the community which has really taken off in the UK , as you've highlighted , and given me the kick to get some friends invited around in gear for dinner and dessert sometime . Cheers , bye .

It's lime juice , well , and some zest cream , condensed milk and ritz crackers . When you mix together the milk and the cream and the lime juice and that all thickens up almost like a curd and then you just layer that , alternating with the ritz crackers . I wouldn't make it again Next time . I would change the proportion of filling to cracker .

The recipe called for about one cup of filling and then a layer of crackers . I just found that in the container I was using didn't create the same volume I was looking for . Ask for your other question about baking tips . Probably not For a second .

I was like , hey , it'd be fun to have a leather baking show where I bake things and talk about leather history , but the media empire is stretched a little thin as it is . I am finishing up this podcast episode on Wednesday and it is being published on Friday , which means I'm right up to the deadline , and the truth is that I'm not .

It's not like I'm baking all the time , nor am I super skilled with a baker as a baker , but what I'm really good at is following instructions , and baking is science . So you just measure everything , you do exactly what you're told and you get something delicious in the end .

But try the lime cracker pie for your next time you have dinner and dessert with your geared friends at your place . It is actually a really delicious recipe . You know , I might also try it with club crackers next time and it would be quite amazing with graham crackers . You could almost get a kind of key lime pie sort of effect .

Anyway , I appreciate all the questions . This segment does not exist without you , so please send me a question about anything , not just about leather , about desserts , about any question you have about me and my life .

It's sort of an ask me anything sort of format , and I am so grateful that you took the time to listen to this episode and hopefully you'll join me again soon . Thank you , and that's it for this episode . Thank you so much for joining me . Please consider subscribing or you can send feedback to edge at full cowshow , as always .

May your leather journey be blessed .