Blue Jays bandwagon 101

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So when you think about the Toronto Blue Jays, what moments pop into your head? Maybe it's Joe Carter jumping for joy while rounding the bases in 93, winning the team's second consecutive World Series title. Or Jose Batista's bat flip in game 5 of the 2015 ALDS. Or maybe... It was this moment from earlier this week. Toronto Blue Jays right fielder George Springer, arms extended, having just hit what would become the go-ahead three-run homer to send the Toronto Blue Jays.

to their first World Series in more than three decades. In the years between these moments, the Blue Jays have had their ups and their downs. And heading into this season, the team wasn't exactly slated for a deep playoff run. But now, the Jays are headed into Game 1 of the World Series tonight as underdogs against the richest team in baseball and facing off against Shohei Otani, who might be the best player in the history of the game.

Today, we're joined by Blake Murphy, the host of Sportsnet's Blue Jays podcast, Jays Talk Plus, to talk about this historic run and whether the Jays could actually win it all. Blake, hi, hi, hi. Thank you for coming by. I can't believe I'm doing Blue Jays in the World Series shows. Couldn't be happier to be on with you. Couldn't be more excited for this weekend. To say that I've been...

waiting all week for this day, and also to have this conversation with you would be a bit of an understatement. For the first time in three decades, the Jays are heading to the World Series. This is something, as I mentioned, that at the start of the season, I don't think many people...

would have said they necessarily saw coming, right? And so how have they managed to pull off one of the most romantic seasons in modern baseball? Well, you're right. This was not the expectation level for them. A lot of the experts, whether you look at traditional media or the...

more you know analytics and projection sites and things like that a lot of them had them fourth or fifth in the division i think i picked them to win a wild card spot which they've obviously blown past and even that i was like am i being a little bit of a homer i'm thinking they could

sneak into the the playoffs here so uh look obviously a lot has to a lot has to break right for every baseball team uh the blue jays have had you know some things go their way in terms of it wasn't the strongest year ever in the american league in the american league east

Pretty good health, even though Bo Bichette and Anthony Santander are down right now. But really, this is kind of a few years of work coming together at once. And I think that's part of what makes this Blue Jays team so likable, too. You know, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. was always destined to be a superstar and kind of lead this. He is the son of a Hall of Famer and making half a billion dollars over the next 14 years and stuff like that. But there are all these little things.

that pulled in the right direction. George Springer at age 36, bouncing back in a way that we just don't see baseball players do. Guys who were supposed to be out of the majors or never even make it like Ernie Clement and Nathan Lucas having career years.

You know, Treya Savage was a late addition, but a rookie coming up and helping you over the finish line way before the timeline would have suggested he should be in the major. So they just had a bunch of little things pulling in the same direction. And then while.

I am more of a numbersy guy, so this is outside of my comfort zone. There is a real chemistry element to it as well, I think, where it's a really good clubhouse. It's a really good mix of smart veterans who have been around the block and young guys. who are eager to learn and things like that so um you know a lot pulling in the right direction to get them here

Well, let's talk a little bit more about some of those guys, because there is some really good storylines on this team. And you mentioned Vladdy already, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. He's gone on one of the most special playoff runs we've seen in baseball. modern history, I think six home runs in this postseason. Right. And so can you just tell me a little bit more about.

The run that he's been on. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. And even as someone who has big expectations for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. And when I say that, I mean big expectations to the extent that this season he hit almost 300 for. batting average and posted an OPS of almost 850, which if you don't know, OPS is well above league average. That's a good season. That's that's a lot of guys career years. I came out of that being like, nah, you got to give a little bit more. This is a guy who hit.

48 home runs a couple years ago and was second in most valuable player voting. Shoots it to right field. And this one is gone. Not sure you can have a noisier 30. They're in the crowd right now for the Rogers Center.

That doesn't need to be the bar all the time. But the bar for Vladimir Guerrero Jr., when he was like 16 years old, was this guy's going to be the face of a franchise someday. So you always kind of expected this. It's been an interesting... four years where in 2021 he was second in mvp voting only shohei otani finished ahead of him uh he hit 48 home runs he batted 311 uh his batting average which is really really strong um and then in the years since

been a little up and down he's never been bad but he's been kind of good not elite and so we've been kind of waiting for that to come back around and you're right the way you set it up it's one of the best postseason runs uh we've ever seen He's putting up numbers that

Not only not really seen in Blue Jays postseason history, which is wild when you've had Jose Batista and Joe Carter have the runs that they've had. But nobody does this in, you know, in Major League Baseball postseason history. It's been pretty rare for someone to. play this well over 9, 10, 11 playoff games. And maybe just were...

saying here, so this is a guy, he was drafted by the Jades at 16, which I think you alluded to there. He's the only Canadian-born player, and his father is a Hall of Famer. And it feels like every time that Vladdy Jr. plays, we're swamped with these absolutely adorable images of him as a child at batting practice when his father played for the Montreal Expos. He's a very adorable child. He's actually a very adorable and endearing adult.

as well. And one thing that I love about him so much is his hate for the Yankees. In that Yankee series in particular, it was really funny to watch him take on this personal campaign. What's the easiest to play this year? Ooh. Oh, Vladi wants to answer that? The Yankees. The Yankees! The New York Stankies just got dubbed by our bullpen. Can you believe that shit?

Like I always say, these dudes are the biggest chokers in the league and they better call me Papi Guerreo from now on because I own their asses. F*** the Yankees, let's go. The Yankees lose! but you don't take it personal he's talked about The fact that he's had bad experiences at Yankee Stadium and he said, quote, it's so good, I gotta read it. I like to play in New York. I like to kill the Yankees. I would never sign with the Yankees, not even dead. And of course he had that viral moment.

with the Red Sox legend David Ortiz after the game. Can you tell me more about why he hates the Yankees so much? So his dad, who, yes, came up with the Expos, and Vlad Jr. was born in Montreal while his father was in Expo, but he eventually played for the Angels, the Rangers, and the Orioles as well. So he had some battles against the Yankees, and I think...

In the early 2000s, Vlad Sr. was going to sign with the Yankees, but they pulled out of the deal at the last moment, allegedly. So, you know, it goes back as far as his dad's playing days. I love it. Yeah. And like, yeah, I think other baseball people love it, too, because, you know, we're going to talk about this Dodgers series where the Dodgers have the highest payroll in the history of baseball. And they've got all these guys that even the Blue Jays tried to sign and stuff. The Jays are not.

small market team like no one no one's crying poor about that I think they have a top five payroll but the Yankees are the team that have won 27 championships dominate the media and stuff like that I think people even outside of Toronto get a real kick out of Vlad doing this to the Yankees because people want to see the Yankees lose outside of New York. And yeah, so there's a reason that that moment with David Ortiz was so popular, not just in Toronto, because Red Sox fans like that.

I think fans around baseball just get a real kick out of that and a real kick out of Vlad Jr.

You mentioned Max Schertzer before, but let's do a little bit more on him. So this is the 41-year-old pitcher. He's known as a bit of an intense figure. You often see him like storming through the dugout or talking to himself in game four of the Mariner series. Mad Max, he's known as that, refused to be taken out of the game, right? And he went on to continue.

it was really a memorable performance. All of a sudden I see Schneids coming out and it kind of caught me off guard and you know that's just where one of those moments where I know I wanted the ball. I knew the situation of the game. I wanted the ball and I basically told him that.

in a little bit different language. Yeah, it was awesome. I thought it was going to kill me. It was great. Talk to me a little bit more about Mad Max. As I understand it, this could be kind of... the cap of his career for him yeah he's he's such a fascinating guy and uh yeah the intensity is real on on days he's not pitching he is like a great guy to have around for the purposes of media he likes talking pitching he likes chatting with media

He joined Dan and Buck in the booth at one point this year on an off day. Now, you had 78 hits over your big league career. Who was the one home run offer? Chris O'Grady. Okay. Everybody knows that. You didn't even have to think about that one. But on the days where he starts, like players have joked to Isaiah Kiner-Falefa, who was with the team before, then got traded away.

then he rejoined the team at the trade deadline this year uh he kind of joked about like well joked but not really joked uh about how like oh yeah i got told like don't talk to him don't make eye contact uh if you saw the clips of not just his picture performance in the last round but he's like throwing coaches out of the way in the dugout if anyone's in his way and there's a there was a really great story by mitch bannon of the athletic heading into the playoffs talking to scherzer about his

first playoff experience so this would have been back in 2011 when he was 26 years old and uh established at that point but he wasn't quite yet on the hall of fame track that he was eventually going to get on and the advice that he was given was you got to slow everything down you got to be calm and things like that to succeed in the playoffs and the experience that he relayed to Mitch and relayed to all of the Blue Jays this year is that that didn't work for him he had to be

this crazy intense we can't repeat what he's saying on the mound and you better not be able to read lips if you're watching the broadcast um that is the only way he can function so his advice to the blue jays has been if you're a low harp

beat guy if you're a chill guy be that in the playoffs but if you're max scherzer you got to go out there and be max scherzer and so some of my you know i've watched this guy pitch in the major since 2008 his run in 2019 when he won a world series with the washington

to Nationals he was must-see viewing because he was so good and he's so intense and I think there's you know not everyone has to be that not everyone has to be Max Scherzer not everyone has to be Michael Jordan where they can't possibly be friends with an opponent

things like that. But I think it's awesome for fans to see that level of intensity, to see that the guys you're watching and rooting for care every bit as much as you and even more. And then I'd imagine there's some element of like, like, look, Max Scherzer's 41 right now. Pitchers aren't supposed to last.

Till 41. There's only two guys in baseball older than him this year. And, you know, Justin Berlander was really good. But Charlie Morton was bad enough that he's going to retire after this year. And it's a miracle he made it. Like, Max Scherzer was the first guy this age to start a playoff game since 2000.

2008 you're just not supposed to be able to do it and i really do think that um him having that attitude and that mentality is a part of what has allowed him to stick around longer and stick around being effective longer than what like the entire history of baseball tells us should be possible. Yeah.

Yeah, I like him so much, too. I know we could dig deeper into a lot of these players, a lot of the people you mentioned off the top, but why don't we just do Trey Savage? Sort of the flip, the flip of Scherzer, right? This rookie sensation. Pitch them into the World Series.

Yeah, he's fascinating. They drafted him just last year. So for anyone who, you know, maybe that sounds normal. Baseball is not like football and basketball and hockey where you expect your top picks to contribute pretty soon.

the clock is usually more like five years you've got if a guy is there before five years are up after they get drafted that's pretty good and some guys will make it in two or three years for a pitcher especially a starting pitcher to be in the major leagues one year after he got drafted is, you know, Yesavage isn't the first to do it, but it's pretty rare and it's pretty special. And on top of that, he started this year...

pitching in ballparks where there were 300 people at the games. He started in low single A, then went to high single A in Vancouver, then went to double A, then went to triple A, then went to the majors. So he jokes, he's met every person in the organization. this year. So...

You know, from an analysis perspective, you don't expect a guy like that to contribute because he starts the season so far away from the majors. And even though his numbers are really good, you know, teams are usually pretty careful with pitching prospects. We don't want them to throw too many innings. and risk injury we don't want to give them too much too soon but around august they were promoting them fast enough that we all kind of started to take notice it was like oh

Maybe he is going to join the team at some point. Maybe he'll be a reliever. But even the most optimistic of people would not have been... he's going to take the ball in game one of the World Series, or he's going to help you punch your ticket to the World Series, dominating the Mariners in the ALCS and the Yankees in the ALDS.

It has been phenomenal. There are so few stories like this in the history of baseball. And then if you want to get really nerdy, he pitches like nobody else pitches. He has this weird over the top of his head kind of delivery that no one else has he has a split finger fastball that is really cool and then he has a slider which moves in the wrong direction like a slider is supposed to go right to left and his kind of goes right to right

So there are just like it's a great story. It's an unusual like prospect story. And then also he's just so weird as a pitcher. I had a guy who has hit against him in the minor leagues. Tell me that when you stand in the batter's box against him, every pitch he throws because of the weird angle looks like it's going to go in the dirt. And then it ends up in the strike zone. So I can't even imagine what it's like hitting against this guy for the first time.

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John Schneider. He's been with the team forever, right? First as a catcher, then as a catching instructor, and then a minor league coach. And then he got called up to coach in 2022. He became manager. And what do you make of his role? in all of this. Yeah, you lay it out so fascinating there. He's been a part of the organization since 2002, which is, you know, I think he's got to be one of the longest-tenured people on, like, there's probably people on, like...

the marketing team and the sales team and stuff that haven't been there since 2002. So it's pretty fascinating. And he's shown a lot of growth over his couple years as a manager. You know, I think people were a little skeptical of the hire initially because he got the job.

on an interim basis. They fired the last manager in the middle of the season. So you don't have a ton of options. And then in 2023, when they got eliminated, he was pretty heavily criticized for a move he made in the wildcard series. you know the

The changes that the organization's made aren't just around John Schneider. You know, how do you communicate information? How do you blend the analytics with gut feel and talking to your players and stuff like that? And I just I think he's really improved.

a lot in in all of those regards and and that doesn't mean he's perfect uh i didn't love you know his management in game five of the alcs but um he obviously got it pretty good from there i think honestly there's there's so much information in the game now and and i'm a numbersy guy i like all that stuff um but i think

All 30 teams have similar information. So where you're really getting an advantage as a team and as a coaching staff is can you take all that information? Can you find out Max Scherzer? understands this and talks this language. So I'm going to talk to him this way. Bo Bichette understands this and talks this language. I'm going to talk to him this way. And how you manage a coaching staff and how you manage those player relationships and how you tell Chris.

who's been a huge part of this team for years now. Hey, we're going to move you to the bullpen for the playoffs and you're a starting pitcher, but we need you ready out of the bullpen. And however you might feel about that. This is what we need out of you for a playoff run. How you manage all of those things is, I think.

as big a part of the job as the stuff that we can touch, which is, oh, which relief pitcher did you use in this situation? And Blake's going to go on air the next day and rip you if you pick the wrong guy. There's so much behind the scenes. And I think, you know, you don't get to the World Series without. a lot of stuff going right and you know when we talk about the chemistry aspect or a lot of guys having the best seasons of their career um

John Schneider has definitely had a role in that. On top of which, if you're a fan, he seems like a cool guy to talk to and be around. He's so into it. Like, did you see that interview? Was it with Hazel May that he was giving after Monday? And he's talking to like 40,000 people. And he's just like, this is effing unbelievable. Unbelievable for me. This is my 24th year with this organization and I f***ing love it here. These fans, this country, you deserve all of this.

I was thinking like Sportsnet was probably having a hard time keeping up with all the swearing. I imagine we've caught some fun. I don't know how that stuff works, but there's been a couple of those during this run. Not just him.

So you've already talked about the Dodgers and how rich they are. My husband refers to them as the Death Star. And you talked a little bit about Otani. But just let's talk a little bit more about him, right? In the... Last series, he had one of the greatest performances in the history of baseball. Shohei just unleashed the greatest game ever in game four of the NLCS, striking out 10 and belting three home runs to send L.A. to the World Series for the second.

straight year. And just what are you expecting from him, the best player in the world right now? And how does sort of the story of how he might have actually ended up in Toronto play into this?

this whole kind of rivalry here so fascinating that probably the best way to capture Shohei is like you almost can't have expectations for him because everything he does defies expectations this is a guy who he's the only guy who pitches and hits if that's not enough he's one of the five if not three best hitters in the world last year he was injured and couldn't pitch so he became the first guy to hit 50 home runs and steal 50 bases in a season

This year, he just went back to hitting home runs and pitching, so he stole bases a little less. It's fascinating. There is... There is nothing you could suggest the guy do on the baseball field that it doesn't feel like Shohei Otani is capable of because we've never seen a guy do all of this stuff. Like if he were only a hitter, we would be talking about him with the same level of excitement and he's.

so dangerous for the blue jays to face and he's one of the best players alive and then he also pitches and it's really good it's uh it's it's ridiculous um You know, look, he's going to play a big part in determining how this series goes on the field. How it goes off the field is yes.

U.S. national media, they're going to make their little jokes about Shohei's on a plane to Toronto because at one point it was reported that Shohei was coming to Toronto and maybe that was part of the negotiations. You know, it's been reported Keegan Matheson of MLB.

has a terrific book called The Franchise that everyone should check out and it gets into detail on, there's an entire chapter on the Blue Jays trying to sign Shohei and Shohei being in Dunedin at the Blue Jays practice facility and they're trying to keep it secret and he leaves.

there with a bunch of blue jays gear even gear for his dog decoy that's how close it got um so yeah that'll be a big part of this series i think you know on the one hand it could be a little bit of well that's the one that got away what if he signed here on the other hand the blue jays are still in the world series without shohei otani

They tried to sign Roki Sasaki, who is the Dodgers closer right now, too. They're in the World Series without Roki Sasaki. Teoscar Hernandez, a former Blue Jay, is on that team, too. There are a lot of storylines like that. But the Blue Jays are here even without all of those guys.

So, yeah, there's a possibility. It turns out Shohei is just too good and the best player in the world on the richest team in the world wins the World Series again. And whatever, it happens. There is also a scenario, though, where the Blue Jays still may. to beat the Dodgers with Shohei Otani. And what a story that would be. And I think picking the Dodgers over the Jays is a part of that.

Look, I'm a millennial. I don't know about you. I was like eight and nine, I think, in 92 and 93. I know all of Canada's cheering for the Jays, but I also grew up in Toronto, and I live here now. And for me, and so many of my friends right now, this is unlocking just an enormous amount of nostalgia. And we're also kind of living this through and with our own children right now.

I dropped my five-year-old off at school the other day after game seven, and this entire schoolyard was just screaming, go Jays, go. It was amazing. How would you describe what this run is like? for you and the feeling the feeling in the city right now

Yeah, the feeling in the city is incredible. And the only thing I can really compare it to is I cover the Raptors 2019 championship. And, you know, that was this big lead up of multiple years of, you know, the Raptors fan base at times feeling like they were kind of the.

other not only in the NBA because they were the only Canadian team but even in the the city a little bit because the Leafs were uh you know always getting the the biggest media attention things like that and then the Blue Jays kind of own the summer on their own so the Raptors run was really special

uh in that regard and a lot of people jumped on and it was that part of it was really really fun but the hardcore longtime Raptors fans had a certain attachment to that team that I don't think you can really replicate now Blue Jays fans have a different attachment because the Blue Jays had more success they've won it before there are you know i joked the other the other day uh with a friend on air that if you're sitting at a blue jays game right now

And, you know, you're with your son or I don't know, nephew or I don't have kids. So I'm there with my nephew or something like that. If you are talking about the 92, 93 team as your core memories, they're going to be like, OK, grandpa. But for someone like me, I'm going to be talking.

of 2015 2016 those teams that went to the yeah that jose batista edwin encarnacion marco estrada because those are i was alive during the world series but i wasn't old enough to like i have no recollection of it whatsoever so those are kind of of my core ones and you know my they'd be like instead of okay grandpa be like okay unk uh like you know so there's i think the the blue jays

because they own the summer because they are truly like a cross canada brand um no disrespect to the mariners fans in bc but the jays are a pretty national brand um And because they've had success in 92-93, because even though they didn't win the World Series, those 2015-2016 teams were really special. There was like a multi-generational aspect to this. that I think is really cool and adds to the vibe in the city as well. For me personally, this is awesome. Like I don't.

you know like as a kid you you dream of obviously playing in these things not uh but i'm uh you know five i was a five foot ten defenseman in hockey i'm not i'm not going anywhere uh with that like my my dad's five foot three i'm not making it to the majors or the NHL. So...

You know, this is it's unbelievable that I'm going to cover a World Series game later this weekend. That's really special. I got to cover the Raptors championship. So to get the double dip on those feels like unfair almost. So it's.

awesome it's so cool like my dad's out in newfoundland and those games don't start till 9 30 at night and he's not really a big baseball guy but he's staying up to watch all those and you're seeing these videos of vladimir guerrero jr's hometown in the dominican republic doing watch-alongs the same

way you know we did all over canada for the raptors championship run and it's just it struck me a couple times that like the memories i had watching the the bat flip with friends or whatever like everyone is creating a whole bunch of those now and 5 10 15 20

25 years from now, everyone is going to be talking about the moment that we're in right now. That's so cool as a baseball fan and a sports fan. And the fact that I get to be a part of that as media and like some people's experience with this is listening to my show or seeing.

me on blue jay central pregame or whatever it's it's so special it's uh yeah it's unbelievable i can't believe i'm covering a world series game later blake thank you and good luck good luck this weekend and you got to come back okay you got to come back on the show Yeah, this moves along. Promise. Yeah. Tell you this. If they win the World Series, I will do I'm just going to set up my my laptop and zoom and I'll do every podcast on the planet. I'll do every show. But yes, you first. Absolutely.

Thank you. Okay. And for people listening, it's the Sportsnet Blue Jays podcast, Jays Talk Class. So you can follow that. Okay. Have a good one. Thank you, Blake. Thanks so much. All right, that is all for today. FrontBurner was produced this week by Joytha Shengupta, Matthew Amha, Matt Mews, Lauren Donnelly, Cecilia Armstrong, Sam McNulty, Dave Modi, and Mackenzie Cameron.

Our YouTube producer is John Lee. Music is by Joseph Shabison. Our senior producer is Elaine Chao. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos. And I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. Go Blue Jays. And we'll talk to you guys on Monday. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.