Amy Grant's advice? We took it personal.

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Her song, featuring the unparalleled harmony of James Taylor, is "Don't Try So Hard". So, we didn't. Seriously. This podcast was effortless. We barely showed up. It was so easy to poke fun at ourselves you could almost feel our souls yawning while we enjoyed yet another giggle-fest. Maybe we were deflecting. We began a conversation about the business side of church … were we avoiding the topic? After all, we've made $$ from CHURCH, INC. We've heard it's a turn-off from GenZ. But what do we know? We're seniors…part of GenZZZZZ…