Episode 216: Using AI to Prevent Fraud (with Satish Maripuri of DAT)

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Broadcasting from Orchard Park, New York.

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And Boca Raton, Florida.

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It's the Freight360 podcast from Freight Broker 
Sales tips to Sports Talk. This podcast is all

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about helping you grow as a Freight broker we 
are your hosts, Nate Cross and Benjamin Kowalski.

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Let's talk Freight All right. Welcome back 
for another episode of the Freight360 podcast.

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Today's a special and we got an awesome guest 
and we'll get with him in just a second here.

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today that's producebluebook.com. Well, this 
podcast is also brought to you guys by DAT

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Freight Analytics and we've got the president 
and CEO, Satish Maripuri on with us today.

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He's also the group executive 
at Roper Technologies. Satish,

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welcome to the show. If you don't mind, just 
for anyone out there who's either new to

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DAT and isn't familiar with the leadership or 
wasn't aware of you coming on board this year,

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just give a brief recap on who you are, 
your role, and kind of how you got into it.

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That's great. Well, thanks for having me 
on the show and looking forward to it. Yes,

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Satish Maripuri. I've been the president 
CEO of DAT since the beginning of this year,

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been with Roper Technologies close to five 
and a half years now and overseeing some of

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the strategic investments that DAT is making 
come with a very strong technology background,

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been in artificial intelligence for almost 
ten years now, was with Nuance Healthcare.

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The makers of Dragon Medical Speech 
for hospitals. If you've ever gone

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to a doctor and the doctor dictating, that 
was technology that I was very much involved

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in leading prior to the ten years prior 
to coming to Roper. So glad to be here.

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Very cool. Well, awesome. We're going to 
have a great episode today talking about

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some of the stuff related to fraud and 
what DAT is doing about it and kind of

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the future. So we'll get to that in a little 
bit here. But Ben, how are you? How's South

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Florida treating you? Well, actually, 
you as well. And I'm up here in Buffalo.

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It's not fair.

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yeah. Doing well. Had Halloween 
last night, did a little bit of

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trick or treating and I was a little 
bit nice weather. I didn't. I think

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you had snow. You were telling me 
at least I was on the forecast.

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Yeah. We ended up getting about three inches of 
snow in Buffalo last night. It's still melting

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because it's above freezing today, but it's not 
going to stick around. Is going to be almost 60

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next week at some point. But yeah, you know, 
classic October snow in Buffalo right there.

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So I can see the rivalry 
here between the two of you.

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Yeah.

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Two opposite corners.

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Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I do 
love getting down to Florida. And

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when Ben and I get to hang out together, 
that's always that's always fun. Yeah.

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Funny. I'll bet we're obviously all, but we're 
pretty close to exactly the same proximity from

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the edge of the actual country, like from you 
to Canada. And for me to Key West or at the

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very least, tip, I'll bet, are pretty close. 
I mean, if you literally drew it on a map.

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Well, I mean, Buffalo borders Canada.

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So you're closer. Yeah, we have three bridges.

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Out from Buffalo. They go right into Canada. 
But I mean, still very close. Yeah, very close.

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Switching gears to to sports here. First, MLB 
for the World Series is going on here. Currently,

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it's Arizona and Texas. I was watching last 
night. So today's Wednesday, but on Tuesday night,

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Texas was up like 10 to 1 or something. They still 
won it, but it wasn't as as much of a landslide.

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It ended up being like 11 to 5 or 11 to 6, 
something like that. But currently Texas is

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up three games to one, so this series could be 
over before this episode releases or if they,

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you know, if they tied or if they win, 
Arizona wins tonight. It'll play game six

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on Friday. So we'll see. I do want to bring 
in our producer Stephen for this next part.

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So on football news, Stephen is a Bengals 
fan and I'm a Bills fan and we've got the

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the rivalry this weekend. So, Stephen, I 
want to know what your take is. Your boys

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are two point favorites although you're 
at home right what you want Yeah it's.

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I think.

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I was looking.

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At the history.

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And the bills are.

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17 and

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13. And it's history all time. But with 
the way the bills have looked the last.

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Couple of weeks and.

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The way the Bengals have 
looked last couple of weeks,

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I like the two point favor 
I might bump it to four.

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Wow.
But I'm sure, very aggressive.

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I will say.

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It is going to be exciting, especially with.

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The.

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Damar Hamlin incident last year during prime 
time at Cincinnati. So I'm sure they'll probably.

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Do something.

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For that. It'll be an exciting 
game, especially for Definitely,

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definitely. Well, I, I don't think it's 
going to be a close game. I well, no,

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I shouldn't say that. I think it could be a 
close game, but I don't think I think either

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the bills I think one team I think it's very 
likely that one team beats the other by two

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scores because one team just like slips and 
falls and it could be the bills who lost to

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the Patriots in an unexpected lost couple weeks 
ago to let us know in the green room that he's

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actually a Patriots fan since the mid nineties 
but we'll we'll see we'll see how the game goes to

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Satish do you actually follow your your patriots.

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Or of course of course I live down in Florida

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right now but so still a loyal fan of 
the Patriots They get flak for it but.

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It's a bit of a rebuild for them right now.

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Well, I've been through the down years in the

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nineties and then the up years. 
So you can't you can't give up.

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Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well Stephen, before we let 
you go here, I wanted your take is for folks who

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don't know, Stephen was a corpsman in the Navy, 
which is essentially like a combat medic. And

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now you guys can see there's a hockey player that 
used to play for the Pittsburgh Penguins that it

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was playing over in a European League that 
passed away from a skate to the neck recently.

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And Stephen, I want your take on it. Is 
the as a sports fan, as a as a medic for

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that matter. Yeah. So I was freshening up on the 
article, but his name was Adam Johson he played.

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For the Penguins.

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Last year and now he's in a.

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European League this year. And 
at some point during the match,

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I think the guy's name was Petgar.

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The what people are calling an unorthodox 
move. And that's skate caught him in the

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carotid artery. So for those 
who don't know, you got five.

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00:07:39:23 - 00:07:41:19
Speaker 2

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Five Thousand milliliters of blood.

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00:07:41:21 - 00:07:47:17
Speaker 1

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Your heart pump, 70 per beep, 
and during physical activity.

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00:07:47:18 - 00:07:49:04

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Speaker 3
You could bleed out in.

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A minute, 2 minutes.

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Speaker 1

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And he was able to skate off the 
ice. And, you know, the reason.

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Speaker 2

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Article I just read from yesterday.

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Speaker 1

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The police are actually involved in investigating 
what they think might be intentional. So we'll

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see what comes of that. But yeah, that's 
crazy. It'll be interesting cause I know.

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00:08:07:23 - 00:08:12:13
Speaker 2

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Back in the nineties there was 
an incident in the NHL where.

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00:08:12:13 - 00:08:16:18
Speaker 1

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A goalie took a skate Sabers goalie. Yeah.

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00:08:16:20 - 00:08:18:03
Speaker 2

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And they required neck guards.

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00:08:18:03 - 00:08:42:05
Speaker 1

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After that, so I wouldn't be surprised if that 
becomes common practice. Yeah, most leagues I know

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the European League is required in all the one. 
Yeah. Though NHL one that happened was they said

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the only reason he survived that is because there 
medical staff happened to be down on the side of

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the ice rink where that got where the goalie was 
when it happened where and I think he he hit his.

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00:08:42:05 - 00:08:43:08

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Speaker 2
Jugular vein.

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00:08:43:10 - 00:08:57:07
Speaker 1

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Whereas this guy in his carotid. Okay so I 
don't I don't know the difference. Yeah. So

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so the jury probably not a medical doctor, you 
know, to the jugular. It's still a massive ah,

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vein. Okay. So it's not going to bleed as fast.

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Speaker 2

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But it's still pretty, pretty impending.

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00:08:59:22 - 00:09:02:03
Speaker 1

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Or as a carotid I mean, it's under.

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00:09:02:03 - 00:09:04:14
Speaker 2

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Immense amount of pressure and 
it's just going to be shooting.

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00:09:04:14 - 00:09:25:01
Speaker 1

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Blood of the. So. Well, if you've seen 
the video it's sad story. Yeah I don't

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I don't I don't have the stomach to 
watch the the video that's been going

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around. But I heard it was bad. Well, anyway, 
appreciate the insight. They're moving on to

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news here. If you guys aren't subscribed 
to the newsletter, please, please do so.

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00:09:25:01 - 00:09:59:16
Speaker 1

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You can go right to freight360.net in your there's 
a sign up button for the newsletter goes out every

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Tuesday and Thursday. Get your market update a 
lot of which comes from Dean Croke at DAT. And

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then we share a lot of the news that's going 
around in the industry too. So latest news,

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the FMCSA. So if you guys weren't aware there is 
a there is a proposed change by the FMCSA and the,

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and the safety rate carriers safety 
rating system and they open it up

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for public comment for a period of 30 
days, but only received 12 comments.

0:09:59.686,0:09:59.720
00:09:59:16 - 00:10:20:22
Speaker 1

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So they, they open it up for another they 
extended for another 30 days. And I checked

0:10:04.240,0:10:08.960
yesterday and there was like, you know, 100 
of well over 100 comments now. So clearly

0:10:08.960,0:10:14.680
that helped. But the whole idea is they're 
trying to redo the safety rating system

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because based on how rigorous it is right now, 
there are over 90% of carriers just are unrated.

0:10:20.886,0:10:20.920
00:10:20:22 - 00:10:44:06
Speaker 1

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They don't have a any sort of rating whatsoever 
because that can't or TIA is advocating for

0:10:26.680,0:10:32.800
more of a red light, green light, basically 
like a go or no go kind of system. So please

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make sure to check that out and leave a 
comment if you choose to outside of that

0:10:39.520,0:10:44.287
fun little Halloween thing. I did see this 
and it was in our newsletter 18 I'm sorry.

0:10:44.287,0:10:44.500
00:10:44:09 - 00:11:08:04
Speaker 1

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Well over $12 billion spent on 
Halloween this year predicted,

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which is over $100 a person. And I saw someone's 
tweet related to freight about it. It was like

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how many truckloads of like increased 
food candy costumes and whatever it was,

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That's a lot. So but this is just a prime example 
of when any kind of seasonal event will will peak.

0:11:08.246,0:11:08.280
00:11:08:06 - 00:11:33:15
Speaker 1

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The surge for transportation demand and 
capacity. These are small niches to get

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involved in. I used to work with the guy 
who he did the pop up Halloween stores.

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That was like his niche. So good stuff. 
So that's all I got for for news and

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for sports. Ben we don't have a I'm not 
going to do a full ad, but if you want,

0:11:29.760,0:11:33.966
give a shout out to DAT and the link 
we'll, we'll get into our content here.

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00:11:33:20 - 00:11:44:01
Speaker 2

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Yeah. Check out the show notes, support 
it Freight360 get 10% off your first year

0:11:38.640,0:11:44.246
of DAT and support everybody over here and all 
the information we get to put up for you guys.

0:11:44.246,0:11:44.280
00:11:44:03 - 00:12:03:01
Speaker 1

0:11:44.280,0:11:47.080
Absolutely. All right. Well, Satish, again,

0:11:47.080,0:11:51.760
we really appreciate you coming on the show 
and sharing your time with us. So again,

0:11:51.760,0:11:56.960
CEO and president of DAT, also group 
executive at Roper Technologies. So

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for those who don't know the structure, can you 
explain the relationship between Roper and DAT?

0:12:02.486,0:12:02.520
00:12:03:03 - 00:12:31:00
Speaker 3

0:12:02.520,0:12:11.560
Roper Technologies is a holding company 
that owns DAT and 27 other companies

0:12:11.560,0:12:18.240
like DAT and growing nicely and long term 
holders. So we don't buy and sell much,

0:12:18.240,0:12:24.200
unlike the private equity funds where long term 
holders and building value and investing in the

0:12:24.200,0:12:30.240
lead slide DAT in their respective industries. 
And we've had the A-Team there for a long time.

0:12:30.240,0:12:31.160
00:12:31:01 - 00:12:50:06
Speaker 1

0:12:31.160,0:12:37.200
Awesome. So you obviously were with 
Roper before taking a role as the CEO

0:12:37.200,0:12:44.200
and president for DAT. Talk a little bit 
about how I guess what you did before,

0:12:44.200,0:12:50.446
beginning with coming on board with DAT as well. 
And then kind of how that all unfolded this year.

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00:12:50:08 - 00:13:26:11
Speaker 3

0:12:50.480,0:12:56.800
Yeah, no, I think the role of Roper 
is to ensure that we have the best

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of breed leaders in their respective 
domains, such as DAT. This particular

0:13:01.960,0:13:07.760
domain of freight and support the 
teams with guidance and strategy,

0:13:07.760,0:13:15.680
execution and talent and left the CEOs build 
their businesses for the long haul with the

0:13:15.680,0:13:20.680
long haul investment perspective rather than 
sort of the next two or three years in a very

0:13:20.680,0:13:26.366
narrow mindset and make very good product and go 
to market investments to service our customers.

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00:13:26:11 - 00:13:48:18
Speaker 3

0:13:26.400,0:13:32.120
And that's our role to help companies like DAT 
I mean, this next phase of the journey with

0:13:32.120,0:13:39.200
DAT needed some extra involvement and guidance 
for the team, such as the topics of fraud and

0:13:39.200,0:13:43.680
other things we're going to talk about. And 
that required some stepping in and actually

0:13:43.680,0:13:48.886
leading the business through the next phase here. 
And I've been on the role about ten months now.

0:13:48.886,0:13:48.920
00:13:48:20 - 00:13:58:03
Speaker 1

0:13:48.920,0:13:52.640
Awesome. Well, that's again, we were 
really glad you're on the show here,

0:13:52.640,0:13:58.286
Ben. Anything you want to ask in general 
before we get into the fraud topic?

0:13:58.286,0:13:58.320
00:13:58:05 - 00:14:04:00
Speaker 2

0:13:58.320,0:14:02.360
No, we're just kind of excited to dig in 
and to hear some of the insights on the

0:14:02.360,0:14:04.326
topics when looking forward to this for a while.

0:14:04.326,0:14:04.351
00:14:04:06 - 00:14:04:22

0:14:04.351,0:14:05.086
Speaker 1
Yeah, so.

0:14:05.086,0:14:05.120
00:14:05:01 - 00:14:08:11
Speaker 3

0:14:05.120,0:14:08.720
I was hoping you'd ask me 
about the bills Pats game from.

0:14:08.720,0:14:08.880
00:14:08:17 - 00:14:24:00
Speaker 1

0:14:08.880,0:14:12.800
yeah, why don't we do that real quick? So 
yeah, I ironically, I happened to be in

0:14:12.800,0:14:17.000
Florida when I was watching that game and 
I talked about it on this show last week,

0:14:17.000,0:14:20.920
but I was sitting there and I was like, you 
know, it's bills, Patriots bills should probably,

0:14:20.920,0:14:24.206
you know, easily win this one, cover 
this, spread all that good stuff.

0:14:24.206,0:14:24.240
00:14:24:02 - 00:14:40:02
Speaker 1

0:14:24.240,0:14:29.440
And I made the same mistake against the 
Jets last year when the Bills lost and an

0:14:29.440,0:14:35.200
upset and I was in Florida traveling and so 
I made sure to at least watch the game this

0:14:35.200,0:14:40.280
time. And it was like heartbreaking. 
So were you watching it? I assume.

0:14:40.280,0:14:40.640
00:14:40:03 - 00:14:47:18
Speaker 3

0:14:40.640,0:14:45.240
I was. I was. They would love to be the 
last reference to football on this one is.

0:14:45.240,0:14:47.960
00:14:47:20 - 00:15:08:22
Speaker 1

0:14:47.960,0:14:52.080
Yeah, it was a it was a rough I mean, the 
bills are set in a in a tough record right

0:14:52.080,0:14:57.920
now compared to what they could be in. But 
anyway so let's get we'll kind of get into

0:14:57.920,0:15:03.280
the fraud thing. So this whole year has been 
rampant. I mean it's been more than a year. This

0:15:03.280,0:15:08.966
stuff kind of ticked up middle of last year, 
2022, and not obviously carried out in 2023.

0:15:08.966,0:15:09.000
00:15:09:00 - 00:15:35:19
Speaker 1

0:15:09.000,0:15:16.800
And we've seen a lot of response, whether it's 
from companies changing their their SOP’s or,

0:15:16.800,0:15:22.520
you know, software developers creating 
new advancements in their platforms or

0:15:22.520,0:15:27.200
just fully new software platforms coming 
out to try and combat certain things. So

0:15:27.200,0:15:32.720
it's a hot topic. And we've had folks on the 
show in the past talk about fraud, you know,

0:15:32.720,0:15:36.046
what they're seeing statistically 
and and what they're doing about it.

0:15:36.046,0:15:36.080
00:15:35:21 - 00:15:57:06
Speaker 1

0:15:36.080,0:15:40.880
And I really wanted to get your take, 
as you know, from the helmet data,

0:15:40.880,0:15:47.560
what would you say the current state of fraud 
is from the perspective of arguably what the

0:15:47.560,0:15:53.480
largest load board that's in the industry? 
Right. So. Well, how would you basically,

0:15:53.480,0:15:57.206
you know, take us inside the conversation 
within data. How are you guys looking at it?

0:15:57.206,0:15:57.240
00:15:57:06 - 00:15:59:23
Speaker 1

0:15:57.240,0:16:00.166
How is it affecting customers and and all of that?

0:16:00.166,0:16:00.200
00:16:00:01 - 00:16:29:18
Speaker 3

0:16:00.200,0:16:05.360
Yeah, yeah. I got a great topic. We could 
probably spend all of a lot of time talking

0:16:05.360,0:16:12.760
about fraud and then some, you know, fraud 
is not necessarily a new thing for companies

0:16:12.760,0:16:17.760
like us in combating it that it comes in 
different dimensions. I'll get back to

0:16:17.760,0:16:24.000
that question in a minute. But if you step 
back, the court tendency of a lot of board

0:16:24.000,0:16:29.806
and network between all the participants that 
are participating in the law board is trust.

0:16:29.806,0:16:29.840
00:16:29:20 - 00:16:54:18
Speaker 3

0:16:29.840,0:16:35.720
You have to you're never going to very rarely 
even see or meet the person face to face on

0:16:35.720,0:16:39.040
the other end of the network that you're 
doing business with. And a court tendency

0:16:39.040,0:16:44.120
has got to be trust. And when that trust 
is violated and you're not sure anymore,

0:16:44.120,0:16:49.440
it leads to a whole bunch of secondary issues. 
And fraud is one of those things that causes that

0:16:49.440,0:16:54.966
mistrust and lack of trust and transparency 
with other participants in the network.

0:16:54.966,0:16:55.000
00:16:55:00 - 00:17:17:02
Speaker 3

0:16:55.000,0:17:02.640
So we strive really hard to make the network 
safe so that participants in the network feel

0:17:02.640,0:17:05.440
like they can trust the other party that 
they're doing business with. And that's

0:17:05.440,0:17:12.000
a core tendency of any network business model. 
Fraud has manifested itself in the sort of the

0:17:12.000,0:17:17.246
supply chain in multiple different ways 
over the years. It has always existed.

0:17:17.246,0:17:17.280
00:17:17:06 - 00:17:44:12
Speaker 3

0:17:17.280,0:17:24.160
It has traditionally existed on the road, 
so to speak, with its stolen loads, etc.,

0:17:24.160,0:17:29.160
etc.. But when it starts to get into a network 
where you're actually doing transactions with

0:17:29.160,0:17:35.400
one another, finding the right credible party, 
knowing full well that that is a party you think

0:17:35.400,0:17:40.520
you're getting when you actually read about 
it, that you're actually getting the right one,

0:17:40.520,0:17:44.486
that you can trust them with the load 
they are going to show up on time, etc..

0:17:44.486,0:17:44.520
00:17:44:13 - 00:18:11:10
Speaker 3

0:17:44.520,0:17:52.200
So that aspect of fraud has skyrocketed 
in the last, I'd say, 24 months, largely

0:17:52.200,0:17:58.480
because of the influx of loads onto the network 
post COVID, etc. and that is usually a breeding

0:17:58.480,0:18:04.520
ground for a substantial amount of nefarious 
activity. So we've seen a constant spike.

0:18:04.520,0:18:11.446
Dickey's had a 25 person fraud and network 
integrity team in place for a long time.

0:18:11.446,0:18:11.480
00:18:11:12 - 00:18:33:10
Speaker 3

0:18:11.480,0:18:17.400
But when the volume of fraudulent activities 
starts to surpass the capacity that you can in

0:18:17.400,0:18:22.360
policing and monitoring the network, you have to 
take on new measures. And that's where technology

0:18:22.360,0:18:29.520
comes into play. Just this year, we've had to take 
action on 8000 accounts that are coming in that

0:18:29.520,0:18:33.446
are come onto the network or trying to come 
on to the network that we've had to shut off.

0:18:33.446,0:18:33.480
00:18:33:12 - 00:18:52:20
Speaker 3

0:18:33.480,0:18:38.840
Now, that hurts, right? Because the accounts, 
revenue, all of that is an important element

0:18:38.840,0:18:45.200
of how we do business. But when you have 
a responsible to do to do the right thing

0:18:45.200,0:18:48.440
in this case, we have to take action on 
8000 accounts and we can dive a little

0:18:48.440,0:18:52.966
bit deeper into how we're combating it and 
so on. But that's the background, right?

0:18:52.966,0:18:53.000
00:18:52:22 - 00:19:14:00
Speaker 1

0:18:53.000,0:18:59.520
That's crazy. I didn't realize it was you 
know, obviously you're right. Fraud has

0:18:59.520,0:19:03.880
existed for a very long time. It just has 
a different appearance and a different way

0:19:03.880,0:19:09.760
of of it being carried out right now, 
8000 accounts. So that's that's crazy.

0:19:09.760,0:19:13.926
That just gives you like pure now because, I 
mean, how many carriers are on your network?

0:19:13.926,0:19:13.960
00:19:14:00 - 00:19:15:12
Speaker 1

0:19:13.960,0:19:15.606
Over 100,000, I would imagine.

0:19:15.606,0:19:15.640
00:19:15:12 - 00:19:43:00
Speaker 3

0:19:15.640,0:19:20.160
Yeah. I mean in the in the peak where 
we're pushing 150 to 180000 carriers,

0:19:20.160,0:19:24.680
we're probably down to about 110,000 
carriers just given, you know,

0:19:24.680,0:19:29.960
the carrier capacity to from the spot market. 
But out of that, if you take 8000 carriers,

0:19:29.960,0:19:33.200
that's not an insignificant amount. 
And so over the last two years,

0:19:33.200,0:19:43.206
I'd say there's about been about a 400%, 400% 
increase in reported fraudulent activity to us.

0:19:43.206,0:19:43.240
00:19:43:06 - 00:19:46:20
Speaker 3

0:19:43.240,0:19:46.400
And that's the stuff that's getting reported. 
So you can imagine what else is going on.

0:19:46.400,0:19:47.080
00:19:46:22 - 00:20:04:01
Speaker 1

0:19:47.080,0:19:50.600
So let me ask you this. So when because 
there's different kinds of fraud, right,

0:19:50.600,0:19:56.840
There's identity theft, there's stolen cargo, 
there's illegal brokerage, a double brokerage,

0:19:56.840,0:20:00.760
what are the kinds of fraud that that 
are being reported on or that you guys

0:20:00.760,0:20:04.326
are seeing or they just name them? 
Or is there any more I'm curious.

0:20:04.326,0:20:04.360
00:20:04:05 - 00:20:46:00
Speaker 3

0:20:04.360,0:20:09.120
All of those. Right. So there's there's 
actually there's actually so so double

0:20:09.120,0:20:16.680
brokering. There is the the topic of illegal 
identities. Right. That comes in two flavors,

0:20:16.680,0:20:23.680
which is stealing your credentials by phishing 
that phone or laptop that you are in and so on.

0:20:23.680,0:20:29.440
And then logging into the network with your 
credentials or impersonating someone totally

0:20:29.440,0:20:36.880
a bot from a specific country impersonating 
as a human and then maybe even conducting

0:20:36.880,0:20:43.080
some credible transactions for three or 
four or five months and then suddenly

0:20:43.080,0:20:46.006
taking the theft down and committing a 
whole bunch of fraudulent activities.

0:20:46.006,0:20:46.040
00:20:46:00 - 00:21:18:05
Speaker 3

0:20:46.040,0:20:50.200
Because this is classically what happens in 
banking where somebody just sort of tests the

0:20:50.200,0:20:57.760
system by being a fake, a true, authentic person, 
positive deposit, deposit, deposit, if you got it,

0:20:57.760,0:21:02.000
and then you and then suddenly they take the tech 
down and commit that doesn't large transaction

0:21:02.000,0:21:11.040
fraud and then we want and then you combine that 
with cyber crime, it is a very complex problem to

0:21:11.040,0:21:18.166
go combat and just educating customers and 
educating the industry is not sufficient.

0:21:18.166,0:21:18.200
00:21:18:07 - 00:21:40:02
Speaker 3

0:21:18.200,0:21:22.720
I mean, a lot of players in the industry 
that, you know, that forces about how to

0:21:22.720,0:21:26.480
detect fraud and so on, so forth, those are 
all credible sources and that's necessary,

0:21:26.480,0:21:30.280
but it's not sufficient. You've got to take it 
to the next level to actually apply technology

0:21:30.280,0:21:35.080
to try and minimize that. The extent you 
can and then have the follow through off,

0:21:35.080,0:21:39.040
whether it's public private partnerships, then you 
can talk about all this stuff in due course here.

0:21:39.040,0:21:40.440
00:21:40:04 - 00:22:10:01
Speaker 1

0:21:40.440,0:21:47.480
Yeah. So I've had to the brokerage that I 
work for, we had two of those instances in

0:21:47.480,0:21:52.320
the last year We had one were phishing scams. 
Someone was able to get load board credentials

0:21:52.320,0:22:01.160
and post as us and we've had someone just 
basically calling not even like logging in,

0:22:01.160,0:22:10.166
but calling other brokers pretending to be or 
I'm sorry, calling carriers, pretending to be us.

0:22:10.166,0:22:10.200
00:22:10:03 - 00:22:31:04
Speaker 1

0:22:10.200,0:22:15.600
And we even had like there was doctored rate 
confirmations and stuff. I will say that was

0:22:15.600,0:22:20.920
what was really cool. And this is before you guys 
have implemented a lot more when the first time

0:22:20.920,0:22:27.280
it ever happened through date, we called right 
away to the security team and they they froze

0:22:27.280,0:22:31.206
everything and a monitor and it like the whole day 
to see like, where is this traffic coming from.

0:22:31.206,0:22:31.240
00:22:31:08 - 00:22:46:01
Speaker 1

0:22:31.240,0:22:35.720
So it's really cool to see like what you 
guys have had even had in place then this

0:22:35.720,0:22:40.120
is months ago before a lot of the you know, 
you've implemented a lot more as the this

0:22:40.120,0:22:46.160
has become a crazy, crazy situation. 
But yeah, it's it's wild out there.

0:22:46.160,0:22:46.360
00:22:46:05 - 00:23:05:01
Speaker 3

0:22:46.360,0:22:53.520
It is. It's stunning how quickly it's taken 
off. But you're also confident that the

0:22:53.520,0:23:01.280
capabilities are here and the partnerships are 
here customers, but certainly public and private

0:23:01.280,0:23:05.166
agencies and other technology businesses 
to try and make a difference in this story.

0:23:05.166,0:23:05.200
00:23:05:03 - 00:23:31:14
Speaker 2

0:23:05.200,0:23:09.560
So I'm really excited to hear 
a little bit more about that,

0:23:09.560,0:23:14.480
too. Some of the partnerships and again, even 
if you want to go maybe category by category,

0:23:14.480,0:23:20.360
I'm really curious to hear and again, without 
disclosing too much to allow people to get ahead

0:23:20.360,0:23:25.640
of these things. Now, curious how whether 
it's partnerships or just the initiatives,

0:23:25.640,0:23:31.000
I know we want to learn about what you guys are 
doing with the AI powered risk assessment engine.

0:23:31.000,0:23:31.640
00:23:31:16 - 00:23:49:21
Speaker 2

0:23:31.640,0:23:36.920
I'll kind of let you take it from here on 
which category you feel is maybe the most

0:23:36.920,0:23:41.120
immediate threat or maybe the largest. And 
I'm not sure if you guys look at it that way,

0:23:41.120,0:23:47.680
but how do you then even prioritize these 
to decide what to allocate resources to?

0:23:47.680,0:23:49.880
Is that all of them? And then how does that even.

0:23:49.880,0:23:50.380
00:23:49:21 - 00:24:25:17
Speaker 3

0:23:50.380,0:23:57.400
Create a I appreciate the the flexibility to 
deploy it and altitude and not get too far into

0:23:57.400,0:24:04.320
the recipe, if you may. But the framework, the 
way to think about it in general for a company

0:24:04.320,0:24:12.560
like ours or anybody in our shoes would be sort 
of four things to keep it simple. One would be to

0:24:12.560,0:24:19.200
ensure that you're taking all measures to ensure 
that your cyber hygiene and cyber parameters

0:24:19.200,0:24:25.646
are secure, because if you're not cyber secure, 
you're leaving a fairly large, vulnerable thing.

0:24:25.646,0:24:25.680
00:24:25:17 - 00:24:48:10
Speaker 3

0:24:25.680,0:24:32.240
And there's always work to do. And nobody's on a 
percent in the space. But once you've got cyber

0:24:32.240,0:24:38.160
malware, etc., you know, you've got you've got 
business continuity as an issue, right? And those

0:24:38.160,0:24:43.280
things can happen. So that's an obvious one. But 
that's we we put a lot of effort into that and we

0:24:43.280,0:24:48.486
have quite a few partners who we partner on the 
technology front to actually help us with that.

0:24:48.486,0:24:48.520
00:24:48:10 - 00:25:23:15
Speaker 3

0:24:48.520,0:24:52.360
And I'll probably leave it at that 
because anymore more I'd be sort of

0:24:52.360,0:24:58.200
talking specifically about who and where and how 
and when. So but rest assured, we spent a lot of

0:24:58.200,0:25:03.280
time on the basic hygiene. Second is what 
part of what made this stuff tomorrow year,

0:25:03.280,0:25:11.360
which is ensuring that the first time use and 
log in and creation of participation accounts

0:25:11.360,0:25:17.120
in the in the network and the return back into 
the network both the perimeter that is first time

0:25:17.120,0:25:23.600
registration validation authentication ensuring 
that you are saying you are who you say you are.

0:25:23.600,0:25:23.760
00:25:23:17 - 00:25:47:14
Speaker 3

0:25:23.760,0:25:29.960
All of that has had a lot of work that needed 
to get to be done to actually get to a stage

0:25:29.960,0:25:35.000
where it's actually quite robust. That's just 
the first time that actually written and every

0:25:35.000,0:25:38.680
time you come back into the network and 
there's so many technologies there that

0:25:38.680,0:25:43.640
have to be put in place, obviously basic 
things like multi-factor authentication,

0:25:43.640,0:25:47.486
etc. and some more advanced AIB stuff 
that we just we're just referencing.

0:25:47.486,0:25:47.520
00:25:47:14 - 00:26:06:01
Speaker 3

0:25:47.520,0:25:52.560
I'll come back to that. But that's 
an area that says the most can be

0:25:52.560,0:25:57.840
somewhat more secure and make you glad you 
could make it nice that over the past six,

0:25:57.840,0:26:02.320
nine months there has been a substantial amount 
of progress on that front because it's a little

0:26:02.320,0:26:06.046
bit of an inconvenience. Every time you've got to 
get to multi-factor authentication step in place.

0:26:06.046,0:26:06.080
00:26:06:01 - 00:26:07:09
Speaker 3

0:26:06.080,0:26:07.566
But guess what keeps us safe?

0:26:07.566,0:26:07.600
00:26:07:12 - 00:26:26:17
Speaker 1

0:26:07.600,0:26:12.640
It makes me happy when I do it now. Like I used to 
be like, this is so annoying. And then I see, like

0:26:12.640,0:26:16.360
once I got scanned the first time for anything, 
I was like, All right, I'm setting it up on

0:26:16.360,0:26:21.040
everything. Like I had my email hacked. Obviously 
we mentioned like load board software logins,

0:26:21.040,0:26:26.886
but yeah, I mean, call it an inconvenience if 
you want, but it's it serves a much greater good.

0:26:26.886,0:26:26.920
00:26:26:22 - 00:27:00:21
Speaker 3

0:26:26.920,0:26:33.640
It's almost like a security blanket you want to 
have around you now once you get used to it. But

0:26:33.640,0:26:38.240
I'll come back to the AI piece of in that realm. 
But think about that second area is keeping the

0:26:38.240,0:26:45.600
further safe and first time registration and also 
follow authentication back to get on the network.

0:26:45.600,0:26:52.760
The next thing, which is probably the longest form 
of attempt, is actually ensuring that the activity

0:26:52.760,0:27:00.640
that's on the network is what it's meant to be, 
that there are no bad actors, bad behaviors.

0:27:00.640,0:27:01.000
00:27:00:23 - 00:27:23:21
Speaker 3

0:27:01.000,0:27:05.840
There's a there's a level of acceptable 
use policy that has always been there,

0:27:05.840,0:27:11.320
but we've been a lot more diligent about 
enforcing it. So if somebody is behaving,

0:27:11.320,0:27:17.880
they're authentic, they're validated, they've 
come into the network at least a period of time.

0:27:17.880,0:27:23.440
They've got all the right credentials. Then they 
get in and they actually do bad things right.

0:27:23.440,0:27:24.160
00:27:23:23 - 00:27:45:23
Speaker 3

0:27:24.160,0:27:30.920
And we now have the ability to watch rather 
than you calling and reporting something.

0:27:30.920,0:27:35.840
We have the ability to watch what's actually 
happening on the network and take action from

0:27:35.840,0:27:39.560
using technology to do that. Obviously, 
artificial intelligence is a big part

0:27:39.560,0:27:46.046
of that. And being able to you asked me 
what are the types of fraud I gave you?

0:27:46.046,0:27:46.080
00:27:46:01 - 00:28:09:20
Speaker 3

0:27:46.080,0:27:52.360
You gave us three and I added a fourth 
type. There's probably 50 to 100 signals,

0:27:52.360,0:27:58.240
as we call them. I'm continue to add to those 
signals that actually indicate fraudulent

0:27:58.240,0:28:05.600
activity with high confidence. Right. And so 
this third area is watching over the network

0:28:05.600,0:28:09.926
and ensuring that we can take action. And that's, 
of course, technology plays a large part in that.

0:28:09.926,0:28:09.960
00:28:09:22 - 00:28:32:07
Speaker 3

0:28:09.960,0:28:14.720
And then the fourth area is, of course, 
the network integrity fraud team that we

0:28:14.720,0:28:18.960
have that I referenced earlier, working 
with public and private relationship,

0:28:18.960,0:28:24.400
there's something like $800 million worth 
of fraud cases that have been reported to

0:28:24.400,0:28:28.480
the FBI, that haven't been acted on for 
resourcing purposes and what have you,

0:28:28.480,0:28:32.160
but in large part also because 
the case files don't exist.

0:28:32.160,0:28:32.520
00:28:32:09 - 00:28:56:14
Speaker 3

0:28:32.520,0:28:37.360
And so partners like us and including 
some of our competitors and so on,

0:28:37.360,0:28:45.360
have done a really nice job. And working with 
the public entities that are out there and

0:28:45.360,0:28:51.200
providing them the necessary information 
at scale to be able to take action when

0:28:51.200,0:28:56.726
needed. So you put it all together. Now you 
have a cohesive response to the problem.

0:28:56.726,0:28:56.760
00:28:56:16 - 00:29:15:19
Speaker 2

0:28:56.760,0:29:00.520
So if I what I'm hearing you right is 
you've got a better date at the front door,

0:29:00.520,0:29:04.480
right? You got multifactor authentication 
for who's coming in the door and vetting

0:29:04.480,0:29:08.520
them. Once they're in there. You now have 
better policing, we'll call it policies or

0:29:08.520,0:29:15.766
oversight to be able to get really kind of from a 
technology perspective, a view of their behavior.

0:29:15.766,0:29:15.800
00:29:15:19 - 00:29:31:14
Speaker 2

0:29:15.800,0:29:20.480
Is it changing? Is it acting in a way that 
seems in line with what everybody else does

0:29:20.480,0:29:25.680
in the market, or does it seem to be? I would 
assume that like a pattern change? I mean,

0:29:25.680,0:29:28.520
some that we've heard in the industry 
and we've interviewed a few people on

0:29:28.520,0:29:31.486
this topic over this year. As you 
know, you've got a carrier, right.

0:29:31.486,0:29:31.520
00:29:31:14 - 00:30:00:16
Speaker 2

0:29:31.520,0:29:34.800
The news one load here and there. Right. And 
all of a sudden now they're taking ten loads

0:29:34.800,0:29:40.120
a day and all of a sudden, you know, they've 
got one truck registered and that should be

0:29:40.120,0:29:44.800
a flag for layman brokers that are just 
doing it manually. But at that scale,

0:29:44.800,0:29:50.280
I got to imagine somehow in there there's 
algorithms and AI looking for these behavioral

0:29:50.280,0:29:54.880
changes so that they can be flagged rather 
than wait for the instance to be reported,

0:29:54.880,0:30:00.926
and then after the fact, go and eliminate them, 
exclude their access, something like that.

0:30:00.926,0:30:00.960
00:30:00:20 - 00:30:22:06
Speaker 3

0:30:00.960,0:30:07.560
Yep. That's a you just gave a signal out 
of the 100 or so signals that we monitor.

0:30:07.560,0:30:13.760
That's a great example because the patterns 
and the behaviors are quite predictable. And

0:30:13.760,0:30:17.720
when there's there's always going to be 
an exception, right? So the globe to go

0:30:17.720,0:30:22.326
to California from Pennsylvania and you're going 
to be a slightly different pattern in that case.

0:30:22.326,0:30:22.360
00:30:22:06 - 00:30:38:11
Speaker 3

0:30:22.360,0:30:26.920
But but it's accepted. It's going to be dealt 
with. But when it's actually a common pattern,

0:30:26.920,0:30:30.680
that's always an exception, Then you got 
it, then you got a flag. So, you know,

0:30:30.680,0:30:34.440
these are the type of things where technology 
can play a big role. I know we stepped over

0:30:34.440,0:30:38.366
the question of the risk assessment engine 
in that. That's sort of the second topic.

0:30:38.366,0:30:38.400
00:30:38:11 - 00:30:58:11
Speaker 3

0:30:38.400,0:30:42.800
And maybe if I go back to that. So 
artificial intelligence, you know,

0:30:42.800,0:30:47.480
besides all the hype that's in the media 
these days, it does a really nice job in

0:30:47.480,0:30:53.880
augmenting what humans can do. And actually 
good is able to detect what a human I cannot

0:30:53.880,0:30:58.486
necessarily find its patterns and it is 
able to flag and do things of that sort.

0:30:58.486,0:30:58.520
00:30:58:11 - 00:31:22:20
Speaker 3

0:30:58.520,0:31:03.000
And, you know, this is a good example of 
an application for it. So there's a couple

0:31:03.000,0:31:07.320
of different things that we are deploying 
and have deployed and are working on as we

0:31:07.320,0:31:12.040
speak. This last sort of 5 minutes, we've 
touched on three different applications

0:31:12.040,0:31:17.160
of artificial intelligence itself. So I 
break it down for you. So first is we are

0:31:17.160,0:31:22.760
able to apply artificial intelligence 
to keep our cyber perimeter secure.

0:31:22.760,0:31:22.920
00:31:22:22 - 00:31:49:15
Speaker 3

0:31:22.920,0:31:25.960
I'll leave it at that because there's a 
partner that we work with that actually

0:31:25.960,0:31:31.960
has leadership in the space in the commercial 
world that that we are applying that for that

0:31:31.960,0:31:37.560
purpose. We're also able to take some 
pretty significant actions on crime,

0:31:37.560,0:31:41.560
signals of fraud, signals of certain 
type of behaviors. For example,

0:31:41.560,0:31:49.566
we have what we call threat intelligence coming 
from specific areas or certain IP ranges.

0:31:49.566,0:31:49.600
00:31:49:15 - 00:32:14:09
Speaker 3

0:31:49.600,0:31:54.440
If you may as a simple example that we 
can actually detect on a very real time

0:31:54.440,0:31:59.240
basis and take actions by preventing them or 
putting them up for additional scrutiny to me,

0:31:59.240,0:32:03.960
that's just one example. First research 
example. The second thing you referenced

0:32:03.960,0:32:10.760
was the risk assessment engine. You know, 
there are multiple areas of approaches,

0:32:10.760,0:32:14.566
I should say, of assessing a 
risk of a carrier or a broker.

0:32:14.566,0:32:14.600
00:32:14:11 - 00:32:40:21
Speaker 3

0:32:14.600,0:32:23.400
Right? What we can't play is just play God and 
have a judgment and give a score on a particular

0:32:23.920,0:32:30.680
part of the network. But what we can do is give 
other parts of the network a very credible,

0:32:30.680,0:32:37.000
high confidence information that is from 
this AI driven risk assessment engine that

0:32:37.000,0:32:40.846
allows them to decide what the risk they 
want to engage with on the other party.

0:32:40.846,0:32:40.880
00:32:40:21 - 00:33:18:10
Speaker 3

0:32:40.880,0:32:49.760
So let me give an example of risk. Can be 
performance risk, you know, costly like driving

0:32:49.760,0:32:57.720
history, etc.. But then there's also the risk 
score with regards to fraudulent activity to power

0:32:57.720,0:33:06.960
units 20 years in service, but only have driven 
20,000 miles. And I'd say, okay, well, I'll just

0:33:06.960,0:33:13.080
give me a random example. But that that risk, 
once we have that information and by the way,

0:33:13.080,0:33:18.446
you can tack on to insurance and a whole bunch 
of other things to it, we have that information.

0:33:18.446,0:33:18.480
00:33:18:12 - 00:33:42:06
Speaker 3

0:33:18.480,0:33:24.200
We have the performance history on the its 
network, which is not public data only. We would

0:33:24.200,0:33:29.960
have that the largest network. Now you put all 
this in the hands of the other part of the network

0:33:29.960,0:33:35.680
that's doing business with the first part of the 
network. That's great information and they can

0:33:35.680,0:33:42.366
decide they all want to decide, not us deciding 
for them whether to engage in that party or not.

0:33:42.366,0:33:42.400
00:33:42:07 - 00:33:56:18
Speaker 3

0:33:42.400,0:33:44.920
And that's the big step we 
just announced recently,

0:33:44.920,0:33:48.960
actually back on three weeks to three 
weeks ago, which is the air driven risk

0:33:48.960,0:33:53.040
assessment engine that puts the power in the 
hands of the network participant to decide

0:33:53.040,0:33:56.960
what they want to do on the other side. So 
these are some of the air driven examples.

0:33:56.960,0:33:57.076
00:33:56:20 - 00:34:19:13
Speaker 2

0:33:57.076,0:33:59.880
But that's awesome. So you're really 
able to thread the needle right,

0:33:59.880,0:34:05.720
in a way that it provides additional trust in 
the market for the market participants. Right?

0:34:05.720,0:34:10.280
In a way that doesn't restrict it, right, 
Like the way regulation typically does,

0:34:10.280,0:34:15.400
which is usually the common criticism, Hey, we 
need protection. If you regulate it, it's going

0:34:15.400,0:34:19.566
to create enough friction that nothing gets done, 
everything gets slower and nobody wants that.

0:34:19.566,0:34:19.600
00:34:19:13 - 00:34:39:19
Speaker 2

0:34:19.600,0:34:24.960
But in this way, if I've got as a broker, 
better visibility into my risks and using

0:34:24.960,0:34:29.600
a carrier whether it's insurance, you 
know, on time, percentage performance,

0:34:29.600,0:34:35.240
any of those things like I'm also making better 
decisions also for my customers. Like there's

0:34:35.240,0:34:40.046
added value all the way through the market, from 
the shippers through the brokers to the carriers.

0:34:40.046,0:34:40.080
00:34:40:01 - 00:34:47:04
Speaker 2

0:34:40.080,0:34:43.360
And now there's a better incentive for 
the carriers to perform in areas where

0:34:43.360,0:34:47.206
they want to do more business. You know, that's.

0:34:47.206,0:34:47.240
00:34:47:06 - 00:34:58:22
Speaker 3

0:34:47.240,0:34:52.240
You nailed it. I mean, you have an obligation 
to do that. And we have an obligation to

0:34:52.240,0:34:58.966
provide you with the most information to let 
you make that decision for your customers.

0:34:58.966,0:34:59.000
00:34:59:00 - 00:35:18:07
Speaker 1

0:34:59.000,0:35:03.400
I want to take a quick break here and give a shout 
out to our friends over at Lean Solutions Group.

0:35:03.400,0:35:06.880
Is your freight brokerage hiring? You've 
got to check out Lean Solutions Group,

0:35:06.880,0:35:10.320
the industry leader in near-shore 
staffing for logistics companies

0:35:10.320,0:35:14.800
with offices in South America, Mexico and 
the Philippines. They offer a wide range of

0:35:14.800,0:35:18.486
roles from back office operations 
to web development and marketing.

0:35:18.486,0:35:18.520
00:35:18:13 - 00:35:39:22
Speaker 1

0:35:18.520,0:35:24.020
Partner with the best visit w WW dot lean 
group dot com to learn more that's LTA

0:35:24.020,0:35:29.280
and group dot com. Okay so back to the 
risk assessment engine just obviously

0:35:29.280,0:35:34.240
just announced that dad Con what is the 
rollout for this look like. If I remember

0:35:34.240,0:35:40.046
correctly something sometime in 2024 is that 
we're looking at for full implementation.

0:35:40.046,0:35:40.080
00:35:40:00 - 00:36:00:11
Speaker 3

0:35:40.080,0:35:46.400
We were able to demonstrate a fully functioning 
first deployment and prototype of this engine

0:35:46.400,0:35:52.560
and we conceived this thing less than four 
months ago. Wow. It was available for several

0:35:52.560,0:35:56.560
hundred of our participants, a deck on to 
see which was super proud of the team and

0:35:56.560,0:36:00.360
putting this together from an innovation 
standpoint, such a short period of time.

0:36:00.360,0:36:00.600
00:36:00:12 - 00:36:23:19
Speaker 3

0:36:00.600,0:36:04.280
Several of our customers actually 
came to us earlier this year and said,

0:36:04.280,0:36:08.600
We want to be part of a working group 
to help you kind of conceptualize all

0:36:08.600,0:36:12.280
of this that I shared with you, not just 
of engine. They were a big part of giving

0:36:12.280,0:36:18.240
us feedback and here we go. So back to your 
question. Our first general availability is

0:36:18.240,0:36:23.760
something like this for initial customer use 
will be in the first quarter of next year.

0:36:23.760,0:36:23.920
00:36:23:21 - 00:36:37:18
Speaker 3

0:36:23.920,0:36:27.720
Then we'll start to do web based roll it, 
just like we've done with all of the other

0:36:27.720,0:36:32.760
risk and fraud components of technology, but 
should be in a very quick roll out available

0:36:32.760,0:36:37.806
to the broad market here in the first 
quarter of the second quarter of 2024.

0:36:37.806,0:36:37.831
00:36:37:19 - 00:36:38:13

0:36:37.831,0:36:38.295
Speaker 1
That's awesome.

0:36:38.295,0:36:38.760
00:36:38:19 - 00:36:42:14
Speaker 2

0:36:38.760,0:36:42.135
What are the chances Nate and 
I get early access to in 2023?

0:36:42.135,0:36:42.720
00:36:42:16 - 00:36:47:15
Speaker 3

0:36:42.720,0:36:44.680
I think I think we might 
have an inside scoop here,

0:36:44.680,0:36:47.806
so I'm sure we can now we 
can make that happen. Yes.

0:36:47.806,0:36:47.840
00:36:47:17 - 00:37:11:08
Speaker 1

0:36:47.840,0:36:55.160
Love it. Okay. So, you know, you did that 
in four months. Is there a plan to I mean,

0:36:55.160,0:37:01.160
obviously, I would imagine there's going to 
be, you know, refine everything as you identify

0:37:01.160,0:37:06.560
other areas that for improvement. 
But is there any other major, hey,

0:37:06.560,0:37:11.286
we're going to do X, Y and Z at some point 
next year as well, And no detail needed.

0:37:11.286,0:37:11.320
00:37:11:08 - 00:37:17:01
Speaker 1

0:37:11.320,0:37:17.166
But as there are other things kind of on the 
horizon for data to combat current issues.

0:37:17.166,0:37:17.200
00:37:17:03 - 00:37:42:11
Speaker 3

0:37:17.200,0:37:22.400
Absolutely. And it's not just about fraud, but 
your question is specifically about fraud. So one

0:37:22.400,0:37:28.040
big area that I referenced, which you haven't 
really made any public announcements yet,

0:37:28.040,0:37:32.320
but because, you know, you have to assume 
that going to be deployed in the background

0:37:32.320,0:37:37.240
is this third area of what I call watching 
over the network with all of our hundreds

0:37:37.240,0:37:42.406
of signals that are out there that will go 
live sometime next year, early next year.

0:37:42.406,0:37:42.440
00:37:42:11 - 00:38:02:02
Speaker 3

0:37:42.440,0:37:46.680
We have some parts of that working 
now, but at scale that will go live

0:37:46.680,0:37:51.280
early part part of next year. And we're 
calling it the network Overwatch Engine,

0:37:51.280,0:37:56.720
the data Network Overwatch engine. And that 
actually watches over the network, as you

0:37:56.720,0:38:02.086
would expect. This is a third column of the third 
area I was talking about, and that is a big deal.

0:38:02.086,0:38:02.120
00:38:02:04 - 00:38:19:18
Speaker 3

0:38:02.120,0:38:05.760
It is very hard. I mean, we have millions 
of transactions that go through the network

0:38:05.760,0:38:11.280
every day, you know, hundreds of thousands of 
carriers, tens of thousands of brokers. And you

0:38:11.280,0:38:15.520
can imagine the transactions that are happening. 
And if you even have a percentage of that being

0:38:15.520,0:38:19.720
fraudulent to watch those activities 
in a reaction, that's a lot of work.

0:38:19.720,0:38:19.840
00:38:19:20 - 00:38:48:11
Speaker 3

0:38:19.840,0:38:24.200
And we have the technology that is capable 
of doing that. That's going to go out next

0:38:24.200,0:38:27.440
year and stay tuned for that for that is 
announcement. And that'll largely happen

0:38:27.440,0:38:30.640
in the background. Right. But it's good 
to know when it's actually going live. And

0:38:30.640,0:38:35.280
we have parts of that already in the network 
right now. Broadening the lens beyond truck,

0:38:35.280,0:38:42.760
There's a there's a fairly large body of 
work which is leadership around Data IQ,

0:38:42.760,0:38:48.400
which is all of the stuff around rates and 
benchmarking and forecasting capabilities, etc..

0:38:48.400,0:38:48.520
00:38:48:12 - 00:39:16:09
Speaker 3

0:38:48.520,0:38:52.760
If you thought that was good, 
now wait till we have, you know,

0:38:52.760,0:38:56.080
the next level of the engine, 
which we're actually calling Raven,

0:38:56.600,0:39:00.880
which is the platform engine using the 
next generation of artificial intelligence,

0:39:00.880,0:39:08.720
something like $1.2 trillion worth of loads that 
will go through that system computed on a daily

0:39:08.720,0:39:16.446
basis, not on a weekly basis. The coverage of 
rates are 1,000% better on the spot market.

0:39:16.446,0:39:16.480
00:39:16:11 - 00:39:39:06
Speaker 3

0:39:16.480,0:39:23.120
With this new engine, some massive innovation. 
That's a huge step for improvement. While that

0:39:23.120,0:39:29.080
doesn't directly answer in the area of fraud, 
this just gives you an ability to appreciate

0:39:29.080,0:39:34.000
the level of innovation that's happening 
in dating and really raising the bar on

0:39:34.000,0:39:39.366
the using artificial intelligence front 
as a as an answer to of these problems.

0:39:39.366,0:39:39.400
00:39:39:07 - 00:40:12:13
Speaker 1

0:39:39.400,0:39:44.480
Yeah, I mean, and I love talking about 
more than just fraud. So I'm I'm kind

0:39:44.480,0:39:49.800
of curious on that perspective or 
on that point not fraud related.

0:39:49.800,0:39:54.840
I've recently been able to use rate 
cast and had great success with it,

0:39:54.840,0:40:04.240
and I think that was a really awesome rollout. Is 
this going to be is that this new the IQ stuff,

0:40:04.240,0:40:08.000
is that going to be is it kind of same 
thing with ray cache words can help you

0:40:08.000,0:40:12.766
predict out you know outbound for you know the 
following 12 months or what are we looking at.

0:40:12.766,0:40:12.800
00:40:12:18 - 00:40:32:20
Speaker 3

0:40:12.800,0:40:17.800
Yeah think about that as Ray Gaston on 
steroids. Right. It's the the accuracy,

0:40:17.800,0:40:22.800
the speed, the computational model, things 
that, you know, we've been doing a step back

0:40:22.800,0:40:27.360
for a minute. You're a user, so you can 
appreciate this a lot of this data comes

0:40:27.360,0:40:32.760
from customers like you and shippers and 
the usage of the network by the carriers.

0:40:32.760,0:40:33.000
00:40:32:22 - 00:40:52:07
Speaker 3

0:40:33.000,0:40:36.880
And we try to aggregate that in a consumable 
way and play back to you so that you have

0:40:36.880,0:40:40.480
high confidence when you actually use that data. 
Otherwise you have low confidence. You shouldn't

0:40:40.480,0:40:45.800
be using the data. There's several other smaller 
businesses that are coming to the market with the

0:40:45.800,0:40:52.280
small set of data. And for us, we believe that 
it starts with the breadth and scale of data.

0:40:52.280,0:40:52.360
00:40:52:09 - 00:41:22:14
Speaker 3

0:40:52.360,0:40:55.560
But at the end of the day, the engine 
that consumes it and how real time it

0:40:55.560,0:41:02.800
is and how intelligent it is. So let me 
give an example. If in the rate database,

0:41:02.800,0:41:10.600
we don't have the rate from El Paso to Mobile, 
Alabama, in that lane specifically for this

0:41:10.600,0:41:18.160
specific equipment type us trying to guess 
that with based on something from Dallas to

0:41:18.680,0:41:22.526
Oklahoma City is not going to give you 
necessarily what you're looking for.

0:41:22.526,0:41:22.560
00:41:22:14 - 00:41:41:18
Speaker 3

0:41:22.560,0:41:26.360
You may feel good about that. You got it from 
the engine, but now with this new engine,

0:41:26.360,0:41:33.560
we can actually extrapolate near exact conditions 
of El Paso to Mobile and actually give you some

0:41:33.560,0:41:38.360
very high confidence on that topic. And 
that's not possible unless you really have

0:41:38.360,0:41:41.455
the technology and the breadth and depth of 
the data set to be able to live off of them.

0:41:41.455,0:41:41.740
00:41:41:23 - 00:41:44:01
Speaker 3

0:41:41.740,0:41:43.375
That makes sense. I mean, it's.

0:41:43.375,0:41:44.200
00:41:44:03 - 00:42:03:13
Speaker 1

0:41:44.200,0:41:49.560
Just about two months ago we had Tamir on talking 
about all the data from rate view and what like

0:41:49.560,0:41:54.520
where it comes from, how they sit like, you 
know, he broke it down on a Baroni style level

0:41:54.520,0:41:59.400
for us but basically how they sift through and 
get the garbage data out and then they've got

0:41:59.400,0:42:03.606
the good data and then what do they do with 
it and how does that project on your screen?

0:42:03.606,0:42:03.640
00:42:03:15 - 00:42:26:20
Speaker 1

0:42:03.640,0:42:07.640
And I was always curious because there's and 
that you answer the question, right? But I

0:42:07.640,0:42:12.600
was always curious if there's no lane data, 
right? Some of these times you're seeing just

0:42:12.600,0:42:20.520
a you're getting a broad geographical location. 
another broad geographical location where ideally

0:42:20.520,0:42:26.806
you want a three digit zip code to a three 
digit zip code, right? Your perfect world.

0:42:26.806,0:42:26.840
00:42:26:20 - 00:42:34:14
Speaker 1

0:42:26.840,0:42:29.080
And it sounds like you're you're bridging that

0:42:29.080,0:42:34.686
gap for probably some lower density 
lanes with that initiative for sure.

0:42:34.686,0:42:34.720
00:42:34:14 - 00:42:52:05
Speaker 3

0:42:34.720,0:42:38.920
Absolutely. I mean, you just nailed 
it. It's hyper personalization,

0:42:38.920,0:42:44.160
right? You need to get down to what really 
matters to you. Lane equipment type time of

0:42:44.160,0:42:48.040
year. You can finish the sentence of the 
variables. That's what matters to you.

0:42:48.040,0:42:51.640
And that's what we strive to. Rather than 
think about look at how big our databases.

0:42:51.640,0:42:52.400
00:42:52:06 - 00:43:14:09
Speaker 2

0:42:52.400,0:42:56.440
I got a question specifically 
to that, and it's more of like

0:42:56.440,0:43:00.600
a wish and a hope. And I was and it's 
something that I've done for years,

0:43:00.600,0:43:04.680
right. And it's the difference between right 
contract market and spot market where like if

0:43:04.680,0:43:09.840
I've got a load that's going out this afternoon. 
Right. Historic tells me an idea or a range,

0:43:09.840,0:43:14.406
but it doesn't really tell me what's happening 
now right this afternoon than a next few hours.

0:43:14.406,0:43:14.440
00:43:14:11 - 00:43:39:23
Speaker 2

0:43:14.440,0:43:17.840
So we're able to go to your market to 
see how many trucks are posted or loads

0:43:17.840,0:43:23.520
are posted to see who's offering what. Now, 
to get an idea of where that market is now,

0:43:23.520,0:43:28.840
I'd always been curious, is there a way or a 
plan at some point to be able to bridge those

0:43:28.840,0:43:35.640
two things? For me to be able to see like a spot 
rate today, meaning like I bought my average and

0:43:35.640,0:43:40.086
I could see how all of the massive data is 
going be able to get you better info there.

0:43:40.086,0:43:40.120
00:43:40:01 - 00:43:55:11
Speaker 2

0:43:40.120,0:43:44.480
But as it relates to how many trucks are 
actually available in El Paso right now

0:43:44.480,0:43:50.120
for a load that's got to pick up in 4 hours, I 
feel like there's enough data in your market on

0:43:50.120,0:43:55.320
the load boards. Is there a way or a plan to be 
able to turn that into a spot rate predictable.

0:43:55.320,0:43:56.504
00:43:55:13 - 00:44:20:10
Speaker 3

0:43:56.504,0:44:00.280
Because you're nailing your use case? So 
first of all, to answer the great question,

0:44:00.280,0:44:07.680
by the way, and so the data do what 
you just said exists. There's a

0:44:07.680,0:44:14.280
level of real time notes rather than rearview 
looking historical data versus real time data

0:44:14.280,0:44:20.566
with the forecasting ability is exactly what's 
coming next. And the data to do that is there.

0:44:20.566,0:44:20.600
00:44:20:14 - 00:44:23:15
Speaker 3

0:44:20.600,0:44:24.606
I should get you assigned on 
the product management key.

0:44:24.606,0:44:24.640
00:44:23:17 - 00:44:35:18
Speaker 2

0:44:24.640,0:44:27.480
But looks like that's what we used to do. You 
just use your gut, right? You're like, Here's

0:44:27.480,0:44:31.840
where it is and you kind of do it enough that you 
get a feel. And I'm like, That is way better than

0:44:31.840,0:44:35.920
our feel for it. So I was like, I can imagine 
that's coming around the corner at some point.

0:44:35.920,0:44:35.954
00:44:35:18 - 00:44:53:21
Speaker 1

0:44:35.954,0:44:39.360
Yeah, yeah. Because I'd like Ben to add on 
to what you said. The things that like we

0:44:39.360,0:44:42.920
manually look at now if we're, if 
you know, if we're doing our job,

0:44:42.920,0:44:48.600
are things like what's the load to truck 
ratio or what time of day is it, How close

0:44:48.600,0:44:54.206
are we to a holiday. Right. And those things 
are not like if a holiday is a moving target.

0:44:54.206,0:44:54.240
00:44:54:03 - 00:45:17:03
Speaker 1

0:44:54.240,0:44:59.560
Right. Historically, that same date might not 
be impacted the way that it is this year. But

0:44:59.560,0:45:04.920
those kinds of things, if they're if those 
are factored in and weighed in either on a

0:45:04.920,0:45:12.360
DAT directed algorithm or maybe as a user, you 
can, you know, put a weight, I want to, you know,

0:45:12.360,0:45:17.126
give 20% weight to the time of day and 30% weights 
and loads of truck ratios, stuff like that.

0:45:17.126,0:45:17.160
00:45:17:03 - 00:45:31:13
Speaker 1

0:45:17.160,0:45:22.600
Right. Maybe you can customize it either 
way. Whatever it is that is would be a

0:45:22.600,0:45:26.800
life saver and a huge value add for a lot 
of folks trying to work the spot market,

0:45:26.800,0:45:31.646
especially if you're in a crunch. So yeah, 
I'm excited to see what comes out there.

0:45:31.646,0:45:31.680
00:45:31:14 - 00:45:50:01
Speaker 3

0:45:31.680,0:45:37.560
Your your, your music to our ears. I 
mean, this is the great view versus

0:45:37.560,0:45:44.760
great cast on cast forecast. Yep. On the 
New platform is exactly making the pivot

0:45:44.760,0:45:50.166
that you're talking about that that's 
great versus current versus future.

0:45:50.166,0:45:50.200
00:45:50:03 - 00:46:14:21
Speaker 1

0:45:50.200,0:45:54.440
Well, the only other question that I have 
been and I'll kind of give it to you is

0:45:54.440,0:45:59.560
is there anything else like what do you see 
for the future of data? I know you're still

0:45:59.560,0:46:05.320
within your first year at in leadership, 
but is there anything big picture vision

0:46:05.320,0:46:11.160
wise that the company has overall? I know 
we talk fraa we talk about innovation with

0:46:11.160,0:46:14.966
rates and whatnot in data, but anything 
else big on the horizon for the company?

0:46:14.966,0:46:15.000
00:46:14:23 - 00:46:50:13
Speaker 3

0:46:15.000,0:46:22.280
You know, since 1978 from Alger, Betsy's 
truck stop and outside of Beaverton,

0:46:22.280,0:46:28.360
Oregon, that is constantly reinventing 
itself. Right. Seven years after that,

0:46:28.360,0:46:34.480
we had, you know, the green terminal in 200 
truck stops in the United States. For us,

0:46:34.480,0:46:42.240
reinventing ourselves and marginalizing 
ourselves with the lens being how do we

0:46:42.240,0:46:50.686
drive more value to our customers that are on 
a network is constantly the North star for us.

0:46:50.686,0:46:50.720
00:46:50:15 - 00:47:14:08
Speaker 3

0:46:50.720,0:46:54.800
So innovation for us is not about 
the next best mousetrap. I mean,

0:46:54.800,0:47:00.400
you heard some examples about that in 
the context of fraud and in IQ. But

0:47:00.400,0:47:09.200
the next big thing of what we do to improve 
productivity on the on your front as is from

0:47:09.200,0:47:14.366
a broker perspective, what do we do to give 
more intelligence to brokers and shippers?

0:47:14.366,0:47:14.400
00:47:14:10 - 00:47:38:05
Speaker 3

0:47:14.400,0:47:19.800
How do we make the carriers more productive? 
We had we have actually had an hackathon going

0:47:19.800,0:47:25.600
on internally about how do we radically 
think differently about how a carrier on

0:47:25.600,0:47:33.440
the road can benefit rather than have to go 
and do a search in the old way, You know,

0:47:33.440,0:47:38.326
a large portion I don't need to tell you this, 
but a very large portion of trucks that head back.

0:47:38.326,0:47:38.360
00:47:38:05 - 00:48:09:03
Speaker 3

0:47:38.360,0:47:45.240
And and it's a problem that we can actually 
have solve with exactly the type of things you

0:47:45.240,0:47:49.760
were talking about then, about instantaneous 
stuff at that given moment in time. So you'll

0:47:49.760,0:47:56.280
see the next wave of innovation really hitting 
at the heart of not just a better load board,

0:47:56.280,0:48:03.360
but actually trying to solve productivity 
capabilities on all three of a network and

0:48:03.360,0:48:09.406
changing the way that business actually is done 
in helping you change the way you do business.

0:48:09.406,0:48:09.440
00:48:09:09 - 00:48:14:21
Speaker 3

0:48:09.440,0:48:14.966
So stay tuned on that. That'll be the 
next wave next year on what you'll see.

0:48:14.966,0:48:15.000
00:48:14:23 - 00:48:25:10
Speaker 2

0:48:15.000,0:48:19.920
That's awesome. I had one last question. I 
know we're up on Time is hard. You're a real

0:48:19.920,0:48:25.480
big car guy. What's the vehicle you have in your 
stable right now and what's on your wish list?

0:48:25.480,0:48:26.560
00:48:25:12 - 00:48:46:22
Speaker 3

0:48:26.560,0:48:32.440
Well, yeah, those are two very different. 
Less wish list is different. If I didn't have

0:48:32.440,0:48:37.240
to deal with the sound abatement orders 
in my household, that'll be that'll be

0:48:37.240,0:48:42.880
a 64 Mustang hatchback or something in that 
vicinity. But I'd have to have that. I have

0:48:42.880,0:48:46.935
to have a different garage and as a different 
Zipcar before my wife talks about that car.

0:48:46.935,0:48:48.280
00:48:46:22 - 00:49:09:06
Speaker 3

0:48:48.280,0:48:52.680
So that's my wish list. But 
right now I've got a couple

0:48:52.680,0:48:58.760
that that I can talk about once 
a Porsche 911 Turbo Turbo. Yes,

0:48:59.440,0:49:09.406
it's it's quite the machine color here. And then 
a Casino Royale edition of the Aston Martin Db9.

0:49:09.406,0:49:09.440
00:49:09:08 - 00:49:13:11
Speaker 1

0:49:09.440,0:49:13.655
Come on. That's that's been like my dream car.

0:49:13.655,0:49:16.280
00:49:13:13 - 00:49:19:12
Speaker 3

0:49:16.280,0:49:19.683
Well, ever. Well, I love it. There's a bit of 
bond Will be. Well, we'll get you in there next.

0:49:19.683,0:49:19.708
00:49:19:14 - 00:49:21:01

0:49:19.708,0:49:21.046
Speaker 1
We love it. That's so.

0:49:21.046,0:49:21.080
00:49:21:01 - 00:49:23:15
Speaker 3

0:49:21.080,0:49:23.726
Cool. Hey, as I say, boys and toys, so.

0:49:23.726,0:49:23.751
00:49:23:17 - 00:49:24:07

0:49:23.751,0:49:24.526
Speaker 1
That's right.

0:49:24.526,0:49:24.551
00:49:24:10 - 00:49:25:22

0:49:24.551,0:49:25.320
Speaker 2
For sure.

0:49:25.320,0:49:26.040
00:49:26:00 - 00:49:35:04
Speaker 1

0:49:26.040,0:49:30.280
Well, good stuff. I really enjoyed our 
conversation. I got to learn so much and I

0:49:30.280,0:49:35.166
hope everyone listening is excited just as much as 
we are for what's coming down the pipeline here.

0:49:35.166,0:49:35.200
00:49:35:04 - 00:49:37:10
Speaker 3

0:49:35.200,0:49:37.646
So thank you guys for all you do.

0:49:37.646,0:49:37.680
00:49:37:12 - 00:49:40:23
Speaker 1

0:49:37.680,0:49:41.126
Yeah, we appreciate it. And anything 
you want to close out with Satish?

0:49:41.126,0:49:41.160
00:49:41:00 - 00:50:03:01
Speaker 3

0:49:41.160,0:49:46.800
Well, we we really thank you for giving 
us an opportunity with your audience and

0:49:46.800,0:49:52.320
sharing a thing or two because it helps the 
industry evolve and mature and become more

0:49:52.320,0:49:58.280
resilient on this. But most importantly, we 
really appreciate what our clients have done

0:49:58.280,0:50:03.080
to give us the opportunity and the trust to 
earn their trust and deliver on the success.

0:50:03.080,0:50:06.080
But we couldn't do it if it didn't have 
great data associates delivering on

0:50:06.080,0:50:09.440
this day in and day out. So we 
thank you for the opportunity.

0:50:09.440,0:50:12.440
Absolutely. Ben, any closing thoughts here?

0:50:12.440,0:50:15.640
Yeah, really appreciate it. Love 
the conversation. We learned a ton,

0:50:15.640,0:50:20.080
really excited for what's coming around the corner 
and, you know, just appreciate being a part of it,

0:50:20.080,0:50:23.920
being able to work with you guys on 
any of this in whatever way we can so.

0:50:23.920,0:50:28.870
That good luck with the 
Bengals and and the Bills is.

0:50:28.870,0:50:30.400
Happy and.
I'll be watching us.

0:50:30.400,0:50:33.280
Yeah, Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. We'll see.

0:50:33.280,0:50:33.780
But thanks.

0:50:34.160,0:50:36.160
Ben. Closing thoughts.

0:50:36.160,0:50:39.920
Whether you believe you can or 
believe you can't. You're right.

0:50:39.920,0:50:45.520
And until next time, go Bills. That wraps up 
this episode of Freight 360. Check out the

0:50:45.520,0:50:49.320
show notes for links to anything that we've 
referenced on this episode and make sure to

0:50:49.320,0:50:55.680
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0:50:55.680,0:51:01.040
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0:51:01.040,0:51:04.880
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0:51:04.880,0:51:20.440
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