Fratello On Air: Does Price Transparency In The Vintage Watch Market Exist?

I'm Wallach Renzi coming to you from Karl Sure. Welcome back to uh the fatherland. Yes. Yes. I left your fatherland for my surrogate fatherland. I guess. Yes. So, feeling chipper? So yeah, oh yeah. It's um I uh No jet lag? No, no, absolutely not. Um I I uh however I I already miss my Celtic shirts and my smooth accent and panadas in the afternoon and uh the hundred do thousand dollar card that everybody got in, right? So

Yeah, hundred K is sort of like um well It's like a used pair of running shoes there. Exactly. Everybody has them.

Exactly. Nice. Well uh we'll talk about your travels shortly, but um before we get to that, any um Oh, I did want to mention one thing to you. We started um well, we've caught up to the uh five episodes of Paradise. Oh nice. Although I think there's a six out today. Uh season two. Yeah. Nice. And um I kinda see what you're saying right now and actually I disagree with the uh reviewer that I mentioned last time saying that it lacked the mystery and and sort of um

intrigue of the first one. It's just a very different season, but I feel like there's a little bit of the last of us in it. Uh yeah, yeah. It's like this Yeah, it's like last yeah, uh yeah, you're right. But that's what I said, like with like Walking Dead, it's a bit like this post apocalyptic or like well it was kind of apocalyptic, right? Uh that's the thing with The Last of Us. I watched the whole eight or ten, I don't know how many seasons of The Walking Dead.

And then that's when La The Last of Us came out. So I was like, oh shoot, I need to watch that. And I started it and I'm like, no, no, no. I get the same vibes. So I needed to, you know, I needed some time to pass.

And then I just recently I finished the fur I finished pretty much watched only three episodes. So finished the first season and watched the second of Last of Us. And I was like, okay, now it's cool. And then Paradise came out and again I have this same feeling this uh old, rusty, kind of abandoned cars, buildings, you know, scattered food here and there. Um, I think I've only watched or we've only watched uh three um so we watched a C uh the episode where he

Um let's just say he has a companion for a while and then he doesn't have a companion anymore. That's it's episode three or four. I'm not sure. Should be three, yes. So you had a you're ahead of us. Yeah. Um like I said, number six comes out today. So yeah, I I like it. Um I think it's I think it's really good. It's better than the first one. Definitely better than the first one. The first season, I mean. Yeah, I think it's different. Um, but you know, I like it. It's a it's a good addition. Um

Okay. The other thing I I wanted to ask you uh before you get into your list of topics. Did you see the results for the Oscars? Yeah, I I also put it on the list. Um a list of topics. Because um on the plane I could watch the new Leonardo DiCaprio um one battle at a time or whatever that the title is. One battle after another. Or after another, yeah. Well, all the same. Um I didn't like it. I I I stopped it after twenty minutes.

Wow. I I don't know. I mean I'm sure I'm gonna get my you know, my fair share of comments that I'm an idiot, I don't understand movies and This may be the case. Like maybe it just caught me in the wrong moment, but I watched it, watched it, and I was like, what the hell is going on? What is Champ Penn doing in this woman? And like, no, I I no, I can't do it. So I I didn't watch him, didn't finish it. I I really liked it, but you know, Paul Thomas Anderson is a little bit of a

Uh when I say acquired taste, I don't mean to sound like I'm uppity or something like that, but he's definitely a little bit kooky. Um I liked it. I don't know if it's a wa a movie that I would seek to watch again, but I thought that. you know, when Sean Penn won the supporting actor, I thought he very much d deserved it. He is a very kooky dude throughout that movie. And

Um and uh he's a great actor, right? There's no doubt about that. Yeah, he he's great. DiCaprio is is a great actor too. So it had a good cast. Um Did you see the movie that basically has been getting the awards, you know, the BAFTA, the Golden Globes, and now this? Um did you Yeah, did you watch it? Yeah, I did. Um I want to know what you think.

So when we were in Canada last year, um our our friends ch had just watched it and they were like, Oh, it's such a great movie and blah blah blah but We just never got around to watching it and then a c maybe a couple of months like maybe like Christmas time, I don't know when we watched it. Again, I'm sorry, I don't want to sound like when I was

Yeah I like so this is my thing, right? One of my pet peeves, um I'm sorry to say this, I don't understand art. I only did nine years of music school as I said before, so I really don't have a clue about art and music. But Having said that, I my pad peeves is one of them is people singing in movies. I just can't stand it. I d I don't. I can't for me a movie is a movie and you know, a an opera is an opera and this

Uh singing in the rain, bli blah blue, I can't do it. And the the Sinners was a great movie up until the end and then the singing started and I'm like, oh my goodness, what is this? I can't do this. So what I found and and I watched it on an airplane. So I watched that, I watched um one battle after another, and I forget the third oh, begonia. Which, whoa. Um That's uh not sure you would dig that either. But I was in the air.

kind of tired. I thought so so first off, I thought centers, I'm like looking at the amount of time left, right? And with 45 minutes left. Literally forty five minutes left. It kicked in. You know? And but I'm thinking like, man, there was just an awful lot before that that sort of building up the story. Yeah, I don't want to say dragged, but it was kind of like

I would have liked actually more once the forty five back forty five kicked in. I would have liked more of that. I mean, it felt a little bit like and and you want to talk about comments. There there was a bit of like needle across the record when when stuff changed in that movie and it reminded me of From Dusk Till Dawn in a l in a in a bit of a way. Yeah. Um true. So

True. You know, I I I think a lot of people say, hey, it's a movie you should go into without knowing anything about and I agree. I hope, you know Well, we haven't really given anything away, but I mean it was good. Don't uh but do I see it as like a best picture? Like I I don't know. I mean, to me it feels very much like a It was a bit of a maybe a weak year. Um I think yeah, I think it's it's a bit of a hype thing, right? Like w I mean I'm I'm guessing

People say yeah, if it wins Emmys and B uh Emmys not because Emmys is for TV but Golden Globe. Bafta and all that stuff. Yeah, exactly. Like then it's it's probably gonna win the Oscars. And and and I and I think So I like the movie, I like how it was shot, I like the pictures, I like the the fact that Michael B. Jordan played two characters.

I I think he I think he deserves the Oscar for that. I I definitely think. Um he's a great actor. He's uh he kind of grew up from you know, from uh the wire, the young little uh young little um um The dope boy from the wire becoming this great actor, character, actor and whatnot. So I think it's that's fine.

Uh I also think that the beginning, this driving here, driving there, getting this ready, getting that ready, da da da da da it was a bit long. I liked the action. Um I also ha felt some type of way um, without giving much away when um um this first character dies, right? Yeah. And I was like, oh shit, this is like halfway through the movie. And I really like the story and how they're like inside and outside. It's also a bit like Walking Dead in a way.

Um but then this music stuff and I was like this is not I I I can I can deal with this it's really not something I like. I mean I watched the whole movie, it's fine, whatever, but I'm sorry, it's just not not Not my type. Like I enjoyed it once, but I'm not gonna watch it again probably in a while. You know, bec because I guess the time frame wasn't all that different. Did you ever watch Oh Brother Where Art Thou? Who with George Clooney?

I I could never get through that movie and I think the the you make you mention the the music uh piece and I'm with you on on that generally. It didn't bother me here'cause I like the music. Um there was so much to like about it, but in the end I just found it to be uh

I just struggled to get the big deal, but maybe I need to watch it again. Yeah, maybe. I mean I like the music too. I like I like this type of music. It's just music is music for me and movies is movies and Yeah, the uh the other one that was on the flight and I didn't watch it was the one where Amy Madigan got the uh best supporting actress, uh this movie W Weapons where all the kids Disappear from the classroom at like two seventeen A. M. the night before school.

There's it's kind of a mystery slash horror. It looks interesting. I'm I'm gonna watch it um when we go to the US for Easter. I hopefully it's on the plane. So Weapons. Yeah. I I that one And then oh yeah. We a lady. Yeah, I mean quite a bit of makeup uh to play that character. Looks pretty evil. Um Yeah, so there's there's um

Still some stuff I wanna see. Hamnet, I wanna see, um But yeah, it it's you know, it's become a kind of typical Oscars thing or it's gone back to it where half the movies that are nominated are small run, which I guess is cool, but half of them make me wanna walk off a bridge'cause they're very depressing and then you know Yeah. But what I I I w just I'm thinking what I was I watched uh Nobody too

on the way there. Nobody too. Yeah, nobody's like um it's like a comedy s action comedy. I don't know that what's the guy, Odin Kirk uh Oh, from Better Call Saw. Yeah, yeah. He's the uh it's like a Um assassin or like a retired physical agent, whatever. Like he uh that's actually a fun movie. It's it's not obviously not Sinners type and obviously that's why he was not c um uh nominated for Oscars. But

Yeah, you know, on a plane I don't I just wanna relax a little bit and watch something. So I watched that. I started uh The Housemaid. And then I heard that was pretty bad. Yeah, it was a lot of uh lot lot of um um, sexy ladies uh dressing up and dressing down in the first twenty minutes and I'm like, Okay, I know where this is gonna lead. And then I read the story and actually it was a bit more like uh darker than than than I would have anticipated, but I stopped it.

And then I li I watched uh where I started watching one of my favorites, uh all time favorites is Any Given Sunday with Chino and Jamie Foxx and I mean it's just uh you know, it's star studded. Cameron Diaz, uh uh James Woods, uh Al Cool Jay, mm Matthew Matthew, I think it's Matthew Modine as well in it. Yeah. Young young doctor.

What was the uh song from Jamie Foxx? Uh everything will be all right. Now given Sunday. No, the one where he's like dancing by the pool, you know? My name is Willie. Willie Bee Willie Beaman. The third quarterback of the Miami Sharks. Not the Miami Dolphins, but the Miami Sharks. Yeah, it was funny. Yeah, it was a good movie. Uh really nice. I like um We've talked about this. I I think I told you that Dennis Quaid, the house he has in there, was actually Dan Marino's house.

Oh cool. Oh it's a nice, very nice house. Yeah, and Weston. Uh I I don't think he still lives in that one. He changes houses quite a bit. So I imagine a very nice house. And and Facino has one too with like these huge plans inside and everything's wooden and he you know invites him for uh for lunch and then the and uh Ben Hur is playing in the movie uh in the background on the screen. Yeah the the scene, the famous scene with the the um um the raised chariots. Yep.

Yeah, and then on the way back, I don't know what I watched. I'm just trying to think if I watched anything cool. Airplane amnesia, buddy. It happens. It's weird. You get off the plane and then you just forget everything you watch. Oh, I watched Running Man with um Glen uh is it Glenn Powell? And uh George Brolin. I wanna isn't Running Man like a re like a remake?

Well, there was Kitten King wook book, right? Original Yes. So that was the Schwarzenegger um movie, which was was great. Um kind of Running Man as well? Yes. The original one. Yeah. Uh huh. That was in the um Or eighty seven, right, right, right. Christopher Eve. Wow. Yes. Long time ago. Yeah. It was in the Bachman books, which was like a collection of

There were more than short stories, but there were like a few different things in there written by Stephen King. He went under a pen name because they weren't horror. Um but Yeah, I read it. It was pretty good. Um So I don't really remember the the Schwarzenegger one anymore. I I think it Oh you should watch it for sure. Yeah, I think I watched it back back in the day, like way back in the day, right? Um but this one is um yeah, it's a bit

It's less what you imagine, I guess. Uh there's not gonna be a lot of killing and stuff. It's more of a trying to, you know, trick the system. Um It's a good movie. I think it it's it it's fine. I mean it's you know, again, it's uh kind of an action, sci fi action, whatever, so you don't really expect it to be I don't even know, uh nine out of ten on IMDb but Hmm. Yeah.

Well, I hope there's two things. I w I want to see that weapons and I want to watch um it, Welcome to Derry. Um that was on my United flight. Hopefully it'll be on my next my next flight I think is with BA, so hopefully it'll be on there. But um Yeah, I've enjoyed the the two modern versions of it. So this series is getting a lot of good reviews as well. So

But HBO is coming over here, I think, in less than two weeks. So let's see what that costs. You know, I just I just cancelled my Paramount Plus subscriptions. Subscriptions. Did you? Yeah.'Cause if you have HBO in Apple, you're good. You're good. Well, we're enjoying Paramount Plus. We just started the second season of Lioness and I really like that show. Oh yeah, I watched that. We we've been through that. Yeah, yeah. It's cool. Really show three seasons of that?

Two. Third just got um I guess it just got renewed. So I think the second one is not as good as the first one was. Uh we're liking it so far, so let's see. I mean I I just think it's really pretty well well done. I mean you know, I know this Taylor Sheridan, it's like every week he comes out with another show right now. He's um Gosh, I can't remember the lady's name who was well, Bridgerton and all these other things. So it's like two thousand oh. But yeah, he's um

Some of the stuff he does doesn't really appeal to me, but the Shoah we've liked and Landman we liked, so Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, so what else you got? Um Yeah, I just wanted I I I texted you l yesterday when I was on the flight or the day before,'cause I just saw an article uh or the news. that um uh one of your um um home states airport um decided to ban pyjamas al croc And I think that's Tampa, uh Tampa International Airport.

It's a joke though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was funny and I saw the comments, right? Uh, underneath it's like, Oh yeah, blah blah blah. We uh I uh let me travel the way I want and da da da da. And um and then it I I I was reading it when I I think when I was going to Florida, uh so I I was like, Yeah, I mean it's funny, it's not funny, who cares? But It uh and then I was on the way back and I had this I had to wait for checking in my luggage and this family was in front of me.

And I was um and then looking at them reminded me of this article'cause um'cause the way they would where drip my friend was You something special, huh? Yes. Um there was a a a a gentleman, a lady and like a maybe a five, six year old little boy, a cute little boy. And uh He was very uh, you know, uh busy eating his snacks, so he was there's no trouble with uh with an Angels uh baseball hat. Um I'm not uh I don't understand really the the hype behind Alo, the the fitness

slash lifestyle brand because it it to me Alo looks like any random just, you know, sweatpants and hoodies with a f funny logo. The lady was Huh? It's comfy, but yeah, I'm with you. I would I think uh thirty year old Nike sweatpants is comfy too, right? Whatever. So she was dripped in that, and then that was the least of her uh quote unquote problems. Um she had two fan cleave bracelets on the left wrist. She had a tennis bracelet on the left wrist.

She had a two-tone Wimbledon on the left, um, about fifteen engagement drinks. Um she was probably vegetarian'cause it was it had a lot of carrots. Oh you know. Stole that from Lil Wayne. On the right she had three uh uh Cartier Love bracelets. Three. And then she also had one of those bracelets, you know, the cartilage that's like a big um like a big nail, you know, the I don't know the name. She had one of those.

And then the gentleman looked like he just came from playing golf, which I guess every m second middle aged man in Florida kind of looks like that. So that's no big deal. Probably they do play golf as well. So he had these um these um sweatpants on. Or whatever, not a golf kind of golf like active pants, I should say. A polo shirt, a golf hat of his financial uh services company backwards.

Um he was sporting the Florida haircut like you do, mind you. Um and he had like a nice watch. I could not tell what watch it was, but it was a watch and a on a leather strap. And I was like, Mm, that's a pretty interesting looking watch. I It wasn't like Laurent Ferrier, but it kind of looked, you know, similar. And at one point I'm I'm we had to like stand in line for like an hour and at one point I look at him

And he's wearing a gold submariner. I'm like, we're getting close to check in. This guy decides to put on his fly watch, which is a uh a gold submariner with a blue bezel. And I'm like, I don't know if these people like live their lives like this and if they do like good for them. Uh I know at least one listener who um who can associate with them, aka Roy. Yeah.

But I I think Roy is more subtle than that. But I don't think so. No, but you know what? Like I mean I'm like, okay, and first of all, I don't think seven bracelets on your wrist is comfortable to begin with. Or is it this just for the flight? But like there's, you know, crocs and pyjamas versus A forty thousand dollar watch.

And uh and uh fifty eight bracelets. I I don't know. It was just a I don't know, it just made me think like how people travel and what do you wear. Like, you know, me I was standing there with my with my bagging pants and my little G Shock and Maybe they're tr maybe they're trafficking that stuff in. I don't know. I have no idea, but it was um yeah, it was I like I like people watching at the airport. It's always fun. And Miami is

a good place for it. It's a special place. I mean South Florida is a good place for it, let's be honest. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. It just made me made me wonder um about life and fashion choices.

Okay. Yeah. Um so that's one. Um I'm curious what what people think about that in the comments and traveling and how you travel. And then of course I went to the heat game the first night I arrived, and that was the famous or infamous Heat game. I don't know if you followed uh or if you saw the news last week that Bam Autobio scored eighty three points in a game. You saw my comment on your post. Yeah. So uh never heard of him. Yeah.

Uh yeah, it's uh well it's a it's an interesting thing, right? Because um with this eighty-three points, he basically surpassed Kobe Bryant's eighty-one, and now he's the second. highest score in NBA history, the first in modern NBA if we consider Will Trembling. Yeah, he was in the s was it sixties I would say when he did a hundred. Yeah. Given that out of that eighty three

He also got forty three uh free throws. So a huge chunk of that eighty three came from How long did that game last? Oh, it was long, I'm telling you. And they had they like the team scored like a hundred and fifty something points altogether. Um yeah, there's a lot of lot of um

discussions around it, whether it was worth it or not, why is he doing that? He should have been stopped earlier so he can't surpass Kobe and bli blah blah. So, you know, it was uh yeah, in any case it was quite an interesting guy. Quite an interesting game to be at because usually people leave, right? Like if around the fourth quarter, like mid or end, people start leaving and nobody left. The whole arena was full. And of course at one at like around the end I I started to look at our

or um a resident style icon, Pat Riley, and see what he was doing. Um not a single smirk, not a smile, nothing. Nothing. Wow. Nothing. Poker face the whole time. Um, nothing. And at one point he raised both his fists above his head and then put his hands down, nothing, and then he walked out. That's it. Wow. That's his emotions. Yep. Interesting. And so morning next to him, of course, they they sit next to each other in the booth. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess uh that's my uh that's my experience. Other than oh yeah, and that's the last one. Um I've been to the Omega Muse uh Omega Boutique at the design district and I saw the new uh panda. They did have one on display. They had one for a customer. And the gentleman, um, whose name I don't know right now, but I have his card. I have to send him an email thanking him for his hospitality. He showed us the watch. And um

Have you seen it? In in real life? Only through a window. Okay. And what do you think? Um The steel one I mean, right? Uh I saw the gold one. Okay. Well the diar I guess is the same, but Yeah, I mean I like it. Um you know, the step dial like that kind of just being sort of a sheer drop-off to the white uh Is it's okay. Again, I mean, it's a nice watch. It's probably I think like we said, I mean, I think people who like that color combo, uh, will dig it. I think for, you know, a watch nerd.

or an aspiring watch nerd, um, I still think the OG moon watch is the way to go, but yeah. Yeah, but it's okay. That's what you said. And that's what I think. It's it's beautifully made. Don't get me wrong. Beautifully made. I just can't um yeah, I I I don't um How should I say this? M the the the di the the the dial on the original I like way better than the shiny dial. And that was my problem with the white one. And I think the white kind of grew on me.

But this is a bit too much shine for me. Like I that's the only issue. But it's a it's a beautiful watch. I love the bracelet. I love love how it looks. It's just yeah, it's just Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm I'm I'm also Speedy Pro, like regular Speedy Pro as well. Probably a hasselite.

Yeah. Yeah. Look it. And yeah. Um yeah. And last, last, last, I've met one of our listeners. Okay. Um at our at the event we had we hosted, he came up to me and he said he only came to the event because of me, which I I don't believe, but anyways, it was a very nice way to start a conversation. This gentleman goes by name Roosevelt. And he said he wants to know three things. He said, Can I can I

ask you to you and Mike to talk about something in the next episode. I said, sure. He said, I wanna know three things. He said, I wanna know about the weather in London and in Germany. Uh I think he wanted to have some sneaker talk and he wanted a good guihash recipe, so shout out to Matt. Sam and Guyas. Buddy. So um I don't know. Uh Guyar supposed to be the only thing I'm gonna say, beef only. Um you wanna talk about the weather or some sneakers?

Well, the weather is disappointingly cool today after having a couple nice days last week. Um Yeah, we're still not there yet. It i it is mid March and it is I have to remember it. It's been a long winter, a wet winter here. So when are you flying to Miami? I hope it's not a joke because it's on April Fool's Day. Oh. So how you gonna fly? Because you're gonna leave dampy and rainy England for humid and hot uh Florida. I cannot wait, my friend. How I believe you.

Go into the keys, gonna just soak in all that heat and um Yeah, get that tan back. Can't wait. I believe you. I um I was shocked when I landed in Frankfurt and came out of the um the airport to pick up the car. Yeah. It's cold. Um my friend would say. Hey, shoes. I'm in a bit of a rut right now. Not that I need another pair of shoes, but To our listener uh from Nike.

It has been ages since I've been on the Sneakers app and found something that resonated. And I feel like the big trend right now, and maybe I'm just totally missing it, is these very weird

organic looking forms, kind of futuristic looking shoes. Um and I've just I'm just not there. And I don't for you. No, it's not for me. And You know, New Balance has certainly had a great run and I keep looking at their looking at their new stuff and they've come out with some neat stuff but quite bright like like um

What would the color be like? You're not gonna be uh uh New Balance uh action Bronson uh limited edition. Uh I don't really like his shoes, man. I know very colorfully ugly, dude. And Then there's I don't know, they came out with like this light purpley pink colored one, it's just too much. And then there's orange. Yeah. You need like this new you need you need a new balance T five hundred. Hmm. That's what you need. Some understated elegance.

What is the T five hundred? I'm not gonna like this. It's like the no, no, no, it's cool. I like it. I all jokes aside, I really do, I do like it. It's the the tennis shoe version, like the c kinda like uh throw back tennis shoe. Uh thing thing is, and you can call me snobby. It's okay. I like I like the Made in the UK and Made in USA ones. They're so well made that um

To me it's worth the extra money. Maybe they have um made in the UK. I don't know. Yeah, I know. I I I hear you. I mean I have the those as well. Um a few of those. And they are actually very, very nice. I mean also the clothes. If you have like well see those sweatpants are super nice. The new balance made in USA sweatpants and and um hoodies.

Yeah. Um I I probably gonna get a T five hundred. I think it's it's not bad. It's a good alternative to the to the Stan Smith. Yeah. Um Well, you can take your Birkenstock to Miami anyways, you don't need shoes there.

Other than that, um yeah, the only other thing I was gonna mention is that our uh episode will come out on St. Patrick's Day. Yep. Sl slanja. Solangea. Sluncha. Sluncha. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna uh go tomorrow night to an event Hosted by Alan Ben Joseph from Ace Jewelers in London. Yeah, so he's set up shop over here. So he's basically operating out of the UK and uh the EU, Netherlands. And he's got kind of a host of brands now that

their handling in the UK and the EU. So Meng, for example. Oh, very cool. Um, and then this brand tomorrow, which I was chatting with Dave and I guess he saw them somewhere and chatted with the owner. And I don't know if you've come across these guys alto like A L T O. And apparently it's a designer who left Cartier to to found this brand. So A L T O Yeah, they're bit futuristic looking, but that's your vibe now. So

You know, you're into But I'm I'm interested to see them. Uh not bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad. Okay. Interesting. But but uh I'm gonna meet my buddy Nick out, um and we'll definitely have to have a Guinness. So Yeah, you do, or two. Yeah. So Okay, interesting. Well looking forward to the um to the update in the next episode.

Yeah, so shall we hand Galinks? I mean you know I'm wearing mine, so I'd go to Lauren Ferrier, so Well, fair enough. Easy. Sure, go for it. I am wearing a watch that came out in January of twenty twenty five. Oh. It is the Aquas Aqua the Aquastar Benthos H two. Yeah, um... I don't know oh, I went to the city this past Saturday and there was a chance of rain, as there normally is here. Yeah. And I decided I wanted to wear something modern, something not, um Flashy on the train.

So I went to my modest pile of modern watches and I found this one and I thought, okay, and yeah, I've had it on since Saturday, so been enjoying it. Kind of a nice uh size. This was the um Let's see what to say about this. Um I'll tell you the size exactly. It is forty by forty-four with an eleven point nine mil thickness. uses the uh Well known Selita SW two hundred dash one, no date and Yeah, just nice watch at that time.

Let's see well, I guess now about fourteen hundred ninety dollars. Um which is fair. Yeah, and I and I think Don't know if they still have this one in stock'cause there's only five hundred of them, but I think he's since come out with a dark blue one too. So anyhow, nice watch. Nice. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I um

I took a few watches with me too. Oh three watches. F so four with the G Shock, right? I was traveling with the G Shock and I took three. Rainbow Daytona? Yeah. Well both, yeah. Uh at the off catalog um uh Daytona and the Rainbow. The one that Kevin O'Leary was wearing yesterday? That guy, oh my god, really gives no creeps. Something else, huh? Hmm. Oh yo yo. Uh I I would be very careful not to say anything because Whew. Yeah. Um

No, I yeah, well I man, I can't. W also by the way, speaking of Kevin O'Leary and his uh dumb necklace, um the Scottie Pippen auction. last week ended. Did you see the results? I

I don't know where the heck I heard, but the shoes went for didn't they go for like six, seven hundred thousand? Yeah. Six hundred something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there was one little flag, like a small little I think it was like a a a championship flag, but really like the, you know, that the table, that the flag you could on the table signed by Michael Jordan, that that went for like twenty six thousand. Yeah, and wasn't the high uh earner the Larry Bird jersey? Ooh. Uh

Um let's see, I don't remember all the prices. It was a surprising thing, if I'm not mistaken. Let me see if I can quickly find the results. Um Yeah, of course you can't write that. But um Yeah, the the I think the Barcelona Jordan that he signed went for like um six hundred and fifty thousand or something. Okay. Um that he gave gave to Pippin after the game.

Um, let's see, where's the Larry Bird jersey? He uh he had some really cool stuff like like All-Star Weekend jerseys and and stuff like that. Um Trying to find a Larry Bird one. Even his shorts were expensive, the like the Orstar Weekend shorts. The Larry Bird jersey sold for eight hundred ninety-six thousand to lead all sales from the uh collection. The Great White Hope. Yep. And um the hick from Fred Flick. Apparently, um

He made six point two million at the auction. It's not that much though, is it? I mean You pay taxes on it. It's like half of it goes to taxes. Yeah. They, um... Well, and whatever you pay to sell the bees, right? So Plus that, yeah. I mean then again you're suspicious, so who cares? But I mean the sense that you don't need the jerseys. You you're you. Yeah. What do you got?

Yeah. Um so I had I took three watches and then um the one so the uh I had the the Otsuka with me. I had the Speedy Tuesday won and I had my fifty-five thirteens and I ended up wearing the fifty-five thirteen the least a lactrip and even though that's the only one on a bracelet. And so I came home and I said, Well, I need to write that wrong. So I was wearing it today. Um

And um yeah, I mean, you know. It's when can we expect your Otsuka article? Oh god. You know how many articles in the backlog? Probably twenty. Um Oh, you G two? Yeah, I no well no,'cause at least I plan to write them. Uh um yeah, I should, I should, I really should. And um and uh in the meantime a new one came out last week. Uh I don't know if you've seen that. Um what's we call it like the square one.

Uh yes, I did. I don't like that one as much as yours. No? Mm mm. Okay. I like yours better. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, I like mine too, but uh I'm curious how that one looks in a in a flash. In the in the metal. Um, but yeah. That that that that's the that was my watch fifty five thirteen today. Okay. Well, never a bad choice. So um

Here we are, 38 minutes in. A lot of banter today, but um let's get to our main topic, which you know comes fresh off the heels of last episode. And um Let's see the um you want me to read the comment? I have it in front of me. Do you want to read it or do you want me to read it? No, you go for it. All right. Well, first off, thanks for the great feedback on last episode. It seems like um resonated with you all that

We go back into some deep nerdy stuff. Um Tacky Tails wrote on March tenth at eight fifty two PM. I'm not sure which time zone, I'm gonna assume the Dutch one. Great episode. Thank you. If you take requests from listeners, we do, it would be interesting to hear a discussion about the lack of price transparency in the vintage watch market and how collectors can become better educated. For example, ways to comparison shop or access reliable market data.

There are a few dealers who seem well respected and knowledgeable, e.g., Eric Wend of Win Vintage and Adam Golden of Mental Watches. But sometimes the prices, especially for watches from what appear to be second tier and not particularly rare brands can be hard for a newer collector to understand or justify. Hmm. All right. Well I think we have some things to say about this, Balash, don't we? Yes, we do. But I have to be careful again.

Well uh uh look, I I I think that I can have this discussion without disparaging or having too many negative comments about specific dealers. I mean, I think I can sort of paint certain dealers or certain kinds of dealers with a bit of a broad stroke, but um yeah, we we can just sort of get into it. Do you want to start or you want me to start? You get you can start. I'll follow. So I think that

The so so thank you for the um the suggestion on the topic. And I think that maybe there's there's a few things that that I would mention around this because uh We've talked about this where I think you and I very much enjoy doing our own homework, and we enjoy taking calculated risks, we enjoy buying something that may need some work, um, which Increasingly, by the way, I'm of a belief that all vintage watches like classic cars, um

will all need work at some point. So um something can just be serviced and have a problem. I've run into that many times. So And and I'm not suggesting by the way that you go and just buy watches off eBay and you know, press your luck all the time. Sometimes that's not the right move. But What I would say is that The fact that we both like doing our homework and kinda going and trying to find sometimes a dime in the rough or, you know, buying something without a complete service history.

um affords us the ability to find watches that would otherwise sell for more money on a respectable or a call it well polished um and I don't mean that with a pun uh website. So I actually think that there are watches from my standpoint that you buy from a dealer and there are watches you don't. Um I don't particularly like buying watches that I think I can go find on my own for a better price or um You know, without

sort of that premium placed on it, um, I I won't go buy those from a dealership. I'll go and try to do my own farming for those types of pieces because I know well enough that they're out there and that there's a chance that I can do that. Uh and to exemplify that point, I wouldn't go buy a Patek Philippe on eBay. I wouldn't go by a Rolex on eBay. Um Maybe with some exception, maybe I'd buy some like nineteen forties uh

manual wind or something like that if I if I was not spending a lot of money. Like a A O P or something. I mean Yeah. Uh like something like that, no problem. But by and large those watches I'm going to Buy from someone I trust, um, who maybe is different from somebody you trust. Um, but I want to have a conversation. I want to

you know, go a little bit deeper there. So You know, we'll get into the price transparency thing in a minute, but I think that's the first thing I would note that I I in my mind have a very clear cutoff on what I would consider buying from a dealer and what I wouldn't. And therefore I don't even get into the whole trying to justify a dealer's price on something that I would just never buy in the first place. Like good example maybe right now, um, because Seiko seems to be

doing fairly well, I would say. It's st it feels like the slow clo crawl of discovery from people and discovery by some larger name dealers. I would just never ever buy a Seiko on a

really pricey website unless it were some new old stock piece with everything included and it was just sort of like a museum piece. Um and even then that's not usually what I collect. So To me, Seiko and other vintage Japanese watches are very, very much in the realm of I can go out and hunt that stuff myself and get a better deal, and also get more satisfaction from finding.

So I'll leave that right there right now and um tell me what you think about that or add something else. Yeah, so From what appeared to be second tier and not particularly rare this is where you meant psycho, for example, I'm guessing. Uh uh particular brands. Uh can be hard for a new collector to understand to justify. Well, first of all, you don't need to understand or justify because there is no logic in it.

And that's exactly I think what we talked about last week. When there is no when there's no hype, then hype needs to be created. Or when there is no more um Speedies and Daytonas and subs coming in, then then they have to look for the stuff that nobody looked at two years ago and that's the Uh maybe those are the Movados or those are the Anglesas a few years ago. Um it's it's it's more of a hype. The problem is when

Somebody's not riding the high, but trying to create it, um, i.e. Movado and um last week's episode, I feel. Um I I also feel that it's um Like I understand um And I think the the the the person with the comments didn't want me to associate Eric's or Adam Golden's name with the question. Um,'cause I I I don't really know Adam Golden's stuff too much, to be honest, to to to critique or whatever. I don't know. I know Eric Stuff and I don't think His company. Uh does this kind of behavior?

Um, I also think that um and I think I've talked about we've talked about this, I both you and I are a lot. um uh buying from him. Um there are pieces that I as you said, you won't buy on eBay. You you need to trust the person. you buy this from and and I think that yes, we know Eric for a long time. Um I would probably say we're friendly um at this point. But I think when it comes to buying a watch from him,

He does not give a different service to us than he does to a a random quote unquote walk-in customer. Um so he's gonna help you, he's gonna tell you what he knows about the watch, and so When it comes to five digit or even six digit purchases, that's very important, especially with vintage, right? Um and so but then there are other dealers who, yeah, who who Maybe want to um make a quick buck, maybe want to start a hype uh or a or a or a wave or a fashion trend. I I don't know. Um I mean

There are any brand, any any vintage brand you want to buy, there are dealers that are almost specialized in those brands, right? Um, at least the most important ones. Yeah. From Omega to Zenit, Seiko even, um what a DC, what's it called? The DC D um DC vintage. Yep. Um It's the guy's name, uh... Nick. Nick, yeah, there you go. Sorry, if I met him even later.

Um, so great guy, very knowledgeable, uh a delight to to have a conversation with. And if you want something from from that RAM, he'll be able to help you. So I think that um as somebody who wants to get into the hobby or or newer collectors as the as the the the the comment puts it, um I think that's that's the best way to do, right? Um Now here's the caveat cause And just because a dealer pushes a certain brand and wants to be known for it, it doesn't mean that they are the right source.

I don't know if this makes sense. Hm. I mean it could but it could, but I think you and I both can tell. a number of dealers who think they're an experts in this and that and they're very proud of being experts in this and that, but they really are or let's just say there are some questionable watches they've sold in the past. knowingly that there are some issues with those watches. Yeah, that that's fair. Um I also think

that if you look at watches thirty odd years ago or even twenty years ago and what was deemed as acceptable or whatever the knowledge was at that time. Yeah. Things have come to light. Um And you see some of those sellers have changed with the times, whereas some have not, and they've kind of rested on their laurels a little bit.

And that can be a bit of a a trap, yeah? Yeah. So, you know, the internet is pretty darn good. Um not forgetting? Yeah. And You can really do a lot of searching about sellers and find backstories. You know it's like

A little a little bit like um reading restaurant recommendations, right? You you can read somebody who gives a place three stars because um the napkin wasn't folded really nicely and everybody else gives it five stars or somebody who gives it three stars because the food was raw and gave them Uh food poisoning, you know, so y you have to read and you have to do your research. and find out if there's a problem with a dealer, is it

Possibly because, you know, and we've talked about some collectors who expect chronometer specs after, you know, a hundred years. You know, was the buyer being unreasonable or was the seller being unreasonable? And or did the seller sell something that was you know, should have legitimately been called out. So that piece I think is

You know, it's all out there if you want to spend the time. And I would very much say, unfortunately, and we we've talked about this before, when you get something in your head that you want to buy, you can almost talk yourself into making it sound good. Um, but Trust me, no no m is it's more true. Probably now than it has been for a long, long time. you probably have time, especially if it's a dealer, to

do the right due diligence. It is not a market where you need to be impulsive and regret it later. Well and then and then of course you also have condition, right? So like uh if uh if a s I don't know, like a let's say with a vintage sub as an example, if that's twenty thousand you're like, Oh my god, this

This 55, 13 is 20,000 and I saw them for nine. Yeah, but the nine one is maybe from the eighties. And the twenty thousand is maybe from the slate sixties, early seventies, and untouched as much as the dealer knows it's untouched. Um, then it's a it's a different ball game. And then you also have a a r a Rodania, as he said, which is like a whatever watch, but if you have that one specific chronograph that's gonna be tenfold the price of a regular Rodania just because

That's a very rare model. So we need to understand those things. Now, this is the one side of the story. The other side of the story is people with like a uh a unisex at best, probably the eighties watch that they want to pimp inside for four thousand because it kind of resembles a cartier or a Piaget from the seventies.

from a from a mediocre brand, that's just that's just plain BS in my opinion. And that that's where the separation is between a dealer that knows what they're selling versus a a yeah a dealer who wants to maybe make a quick buck or again either jump on a hype train or create a hype around something that that is really not hype.

Uh because at the end of the day, users will hype, buyers will hype the watch, not the dealers. It it should be demand that should create hype, not supply. Yeah, and I think We talked about it. when you see these sort of pushing and trying to create hype, these are areas that for a dealer who's maybe been sitting on this kind of stuff and bought it ages ago thinking it would one day become a thing. This probably represents

an area where they can make really good money if the hype takes off or if they're successful in pushing it. Whereas you and I both know, buying a Rolex or a Patek, I mean, is more of a liquid thing. I mean, you can pretty easily get the the market value on that, so unless somebody's totally desperate, they're not going to give it away to a dealer. Um now uh when when we talk about somebody like Eric or Adam I think you've got a couple other things going on there too. So

They do generally and and I can speak more for Eric's site. I I do go check out Menta just to see what's going on, not as frequently, but Um Eric does sell a lot of really nice condition watches. And I think that you're seeing you want to talk about price transparency. Go look at something like baseball cards or whatever that's PSA rated, you know, slabbed and and professionally graded.

I'm not suggesting that Eric's watches are like that, but I do think what you're often seeing there is something in really great condition and You know, in most collectibles markets, those types of things do carry a premium. And you have to decide whether or not that's for you. I mean, for me, for a lot of watches I own. I've always said it, I like an honest watch. I don't need it to be absolutely perfect because frankly, I wanna wear it. I don't like buying something that You know it's like the

the nineties Camaro or something that's really not worth a lot of money with fifteen miles, you basically have to keep it that way for the rest of its life because the second you start driving it, it's it's worth nothing and or worth less. And I think with watches, I uh some people really enjoy that new old stock um just found in, you know, an old jeweler's stock uh type of thing.

But you know, and and he offers that kind of opportunity to buy that type of thing. I think the other thing that he's got going is that there are quite a few watches on consignment and If he's selling something to someone who's a prior customer and, you know, they want to try to sell some pieces uh to help afford that or to make some of their money back, then they probably put some lower limits on

on what it should sell for and uh you know there so there's a little bit of that and you can also negotiate. You can also ask Sure, you can ask. Um We have to be within reason, of course, but Yeah, I mean the the Calatrava I bought from Eric, I mean, quite openly, was owned by someone else and You know, we talked about it a little bit. There was a little bit of wiggle room, but at the end of the day, you know

He's kind of representing both sides and he's like, Hey, you know, I'll ask for you. Um, I'll give my honest opinion on where I think it should be and we'll see where it ends up. So there's a bit of that going on. Um But uh m maybe one other comment to make, so I think you've probably been in stores and it doesn't have to be watches where you've seen an item for sale in a big city.

that is overpriced. Yeah. You know that you could go get that item somewhere else for less. Like it's it's a how would I say? Uh I mean the internet has brought a lot of transparency to things like

I don't know, let's say remove a luggage, right? Like if you went into a specialty store that was trying to charge you twenty percent more for that, you'd be like, Why would I pay that? Right? That's You know, watches and things are not like that, but I still think that you have your New York Cities and your Londons and like Burlington Arcade is a great example of this.

By and large, the watches in Burlington Arcade, not all, are overpriced and you get a lot of street traffic. You get a lot of people who get a bonus. You get a lot of people whose spouse wants to get them something. And for them, they have a budget in mind. They're not questioning whether what they're buying is a good deal. They feel that they're buying in a credible place. And they're just gonna they're gonna spend it. And You know, as a collector

I think you have to be able to discern those kinds of places. They're fun to look at, they're fun to see watches that maybe you won't see somewhere else, but would you really buy from there? Probably not. Well yeah, but you can also not uh as much as I'm I was blaming them uh until now. You also cannot blame them because uh everybody who sold watches, not just as a dealer but also a private uh person, collector, whatever

They all have these stories on like, Oh, I know this watch is worth a thousand and I listed it on Chrono or eBay or whatever for three and somebody bought it, you know. So Th these things happen and um and I can't blame them for trying. Um but then uh trying also has a shaft life.

And after a while you just have to, you know, maybe take the Allen because uh I don't know. Uh you think the watch is worth you bought the watch for five, you think it's worth ten, but you're not gonna get ten for it, but set it for seven. Yeah. And then seven thousand compared to five is still better than no ten thousand compared to five, right?

In my opinion. And then and then I guess that's that's what leaves us to the uh or leads us to the uh the the other part of the question, right? The first part of the question where he um where he says, um

discussion about the lack of price transparency in the vintage watch market and how collectors can become better educated. For example, ways to comparison shops uh uh or excess reliable market data. Uh um reliable market data doesn't exist. because these dealers don't communicate the prices they sell watches for. The the biggest mistake that everybody

in the beginning does and to some degree we still kind of do it is to say well that's a fifteen thousand dollar watch because I see them listed for fifteen thousand. Yeah, sure. That's uh that's why I said a fifteen thousand dollar watch is great if it sells for fifteen thousand, but more often than not, the fifteen thousand dollar watch that is listed for fifteen may sell for twelve, thirteen. Of course, depending on the watch, depending on condition, depending on a billion things.

Um I guess what I'm trying to say is just because the price of uh up a price tag is X It doesn't mean then you will sell that watch for X, especially if you're not an expert or you're not uh you don't know a lot about that specific model, because with every vintage, the teeny tiny details that is

that is um not visible to a to a an a newbie will make a big difference and oftentimes thousand euro differences in the prices. And is it dumb? Yes. Is it uh against logic? Yes. But that's how the vintage market works. Yeah, and and look, the other thing is uh again, it comes back to how much time you want to spend on researching something. And I do think

You can be a casual vintage watch buyer. Uh, you can. But Uh it definitely that the the vintage hobby definitely favors the festigious, it favors the nerd, it favors the person who Really likes digging up information. And there is information out there, you know, past auctions, etc. But Go go online to some of these places like um Sailroom and others that

You know, are basically a compilation of listings of different auctions. Yeah, eBay sold auctions. But even for future pieces, follow a piece. Follow something that you're interested in. And go see what it actually sells for. You'd be blown away, especially if it's a non Rolex, non-Patech, but even then, by the way, if it's not one of the, you know, big sports watches or something, you'll be blown away, uh, most of the time at auction what these watches sell for. They sell for a lot less.

Than what you're seeing pieces on dealer sites for. And there's a good reason for that, right? I mean, usually you don't have a lot of information on the watch. You don't know if it's really you know, if it needs a service, which always say you really do need to factor that in. And if you're dealing with somebody like Nick, for example, you mentioned him on DC vintage watches. His prices for Japanese watches don't seem cheap, but

He has a staff of watchmakers who go through all the watches. Yeah. I don't do that with my Japanese watches. So it's unfair for me to say that he's reasonable or unreasonable when every watch he's he's getting in he's effectively servicing. And so uh and just one side note, sorry, Mike. And some of the watches that we're talk that are popular, the four digit uh references, have interchangeable case backs, for example. So

an an average guy might not even know that that's a put together, which is very common. I guess you know more about this than I do. Very common now to come out of Japan. Yep. Yep. But you know, point is Follow auctions, watch them, watch how watches perform. Um And by the way, those auctions, even if they're in like small towns or wherever whatever country you're living in, they're open to everyone. You don't have to be a dealer to go buy there. Um and I've seen watches, we've all seen watches.

um, especially from these smaller brands like the Movados, show up on big name dealer sites that came from one of these auctions or more of these auctions. They, you know, if you're following a brand that closely,

the rare stuff sticks out big time when it when it shows up somewhere because they just don't come up that often. Um and therefore I think um You know, you have to inform yourself and you also have to say like like I said before If I see a watch selling for, I don't know, two thousand and I think typically they're selling for fifteen hundred, well

The fifteen hundred ones, are they all unserviced? Are they all coming without a guarantee? Are they you have to factor that stuff in. As much as you don't want to, you have to And yeah. And and that's a good point because indeed if you buy a fifteen hundred euro watch and then it needs a service. It's a vintage watch, maybe a complicated movement. It's even just a day date or a GMT. A service will be wherever you are in the world.

Somewhere around two, three, four hundred Euros or equivalent to dollars. And then a fifteen hundred euro watch is all of a sudden two thousand. So you might as well just go and buy the two thousand year watch. And guess what? You don't know that, but the dealer does. That's why it's fifteen hundred. Yeah, yeah. And And I guess the other thing, and it and this is it's such a boring comment to say, but Well, uh first off I'll say I don't think there will ever be

Th there will never be a price guide like there is for comic books or baseball cards for watches because especially when you get outside of the big brands. There were so many variants and there's still not great cataloging of all the different variants that that came out. So That's sort of a you know, a range of values that are set by semi-similar watches. And then if I look at most of my Japanese stuff that I bought probably five, seven, eight years ago. I was

flying blind when I bought some of this stuff and some of it I paid decent money for, but it was in Japan. I knew I wasn't gonna get it anywhere else and I just wanted it and I decided that that was something I was comfortable with. Had no reflection on Any kind of transparency other than I was hopefully bidding in an auction where I wasn't bidding against the dealer, the person selling it. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And then of course uh probably that time those pieces were not that popular or Japan was not as as uh uh important of a market as it is today, so it was not beneficial for anybody to to uh to mess with them. They just solve what they sold versus versus now. Yeah. And but but let's get a good example here. Like your Angulus, the Chrono Dado, uh the deluxe, yeah? So you've seen you could probably count on a couple hands or or or so of of the number you've seen.

For you've seen yeah, and yeah, one hand. Yeah, and you've seen them sell for different prices. Um you've taken into account the market uh has changed, but It could change further. It could change the other way. And at some point. You made a decision that you thought it was fair value for the watch in question.

And you decided to pull the trigger. Well, yeah, because um that model is is extremely rare. Like really and you talk about and again, this is one of those words that, you know, we throw around quite Uh I I guess quite happily. Not not us but dealers rare, super rare, extremely rare, rare, rare military blacked outs, military, military, military. No. But it is really a very, very rare watch. Like I know as I said, I I've probably so I know um

a dealer who had like three or four at the t I w at one point and two of them handed uh ended up with with a friend of mine. That's how easy it is to like track them because there aren't many. And I was doing a Google search. image search. I was like, hmm, I know because I'm looking for this watch for a long time. I know every image in Google. I know the watch, right? And sometimes you find the image from what you seek. And then sometimes you find the same watch and it's from

I don't know uh time zone, but it turns out that it wasn't time zone and so exactly. So just use the same thread. But this was a new watch from a random I wanna say nobody because they're not nobody's but just a random, not it not a famous, not a important just a random watch dealer in North Germany. And w usually when I see these and I click on them, it's always sold. Or the price is there, but when you email them, oh yeah, we sold them five.

And they had they just had it because a dealer or I mean a collector they they bought it or brought it in, I don't know. And the price was very fair, it was not cheap. It was absolutely not cheap, but it was very fair. And I know what I knew and I still know it now that it was a good deal. for uh the model because it was in extremely good condition and again extremely extremely extremely rare. Now if I wanna sell that watch, how much I'm gonna get for it, which I don't want to.

Obviously that's another question, right? I'm guessing I will get my money back, but I'm not sure if I could sell it for double. Then again, just recently another one was sold and auctioned. ended up being seven thousand something with the auction uh premium, buyer's premium, ten thousand. So

Yeah, but but I knew as I as I said, I did the Google search and I knew each and every image because I've searched for that watch so many times. But at the end of the day, you bought that watch because you felt it was fair, but also because You're a collector. And you always wanted that watch. Yes, and mind you, uh this is also what I do to this day. How many times have I sent you a link? What do you think about this watch?

I've did the same thing for the Angalus. I send it to two, three people. What do you think about this? What you know what 'Cause I know a lot, you know a lot, but I don't know everything. Yep. So you also have to cross reference it with um with with somebody who knows uh at least vintage or or or whatever. Yeah. Who may see something different that you don't see in it. Yeah. So so I think um

How can you be better educated? You just have to do and I and I guess it's boring because we always come back to that answer, but it's true. You just need to do a lot of research. And um k how to compare pri uh shops or or or market data. I don't think there are market data. You have a listing price for the most part and then you have as you said, Mike, the

What's the mark w market what is it called? The tool that shows you like results, price results? Oh, I mean you can go into sale room and th find things. Yeah, but you have to you have to pay for uh Or you have to have a membership code subscription, whatever. Or on eBay, just look for uh s sold results. But just because the price is uh a listing prices this don't assume that that was the what the selling price was.

Um that that's that's why there's no reliable data. Um and uh yeah, comparing shops is is is very difficult.'Cause uh'cause yeah, they might have something that a lot of people want and they might have something that nobody needs but you. So you might end up with a bargain or you might overpay. But at the end of the day, it yeah, it depends. Is it worth it for you? As of the next one. Yeah. And that and that's really what it ultimately comes down to, right? Because

You don't know what the future is. Um, the brand could take off for whatever reason, gets really popular, might not. Um So b you have to be happy with it in the end. Um if you're buying it purely f as an investment, then Pfft, we've said it before, there's better places to put your money. And if you really, really have to put it in watches, then there's probably only two brands that I would ever really suggest. Yeah. It's bor it's really boring, but that's Jack Hoyer.

Is one of them and Brightling is the other one. Bauman Mercier. You messed up, buddy. And G P um Yeah. So uh look, probably not the Easiest question, uh or or uh not a question with a very finite answer, but I think you're Hopefully to the person who sent in the idea that we end up just really geeking out and uh doing a ton of research and asking questions. Um Oh, maybe one other thing I'll mention. Um

You know, and this isn't a new phenomenon, but I think it's really hit its level of maturation now. Um our Discord. The the Instagram uh seller. So, you know, there are private people who go put a watch out there. I have nothing against that. I think it's pretty much akin to like Reddit or an old forum posting.

But what I seen more and more of are people who are dealers and then sometimes you go and they don't really have much of a website. That's always a little weird, but I realize Instagram can move faster than a website, but There really have been a lot of dealers who have sort of come up over the last couple of years that started dealing in fairly pedestrian watches and now are selling stuff that's much more expensive um on the vintage front and these folks in certain cases are

Trying to create some hype. They're selling brands that really weren't overly popular a few years ago. I mean, Movado is a good example, unfortunately. Um Follow these people for a little while. Follow them, see what they're selling, ask questions not only of them, but of other people who seem to be into those brands and start to get a view on whether or not they're reputable or not. It's so easy.

to create a handle on Instagram and become a quote unquote dealer. And also look at the comments on their postings. I guarantee you on some of them you'll start to see the same people quo uh pos um responding all the time and then go find out who they are. Half the time they're dealers as well. And um yeah, it's just

Like any kind of hobby, you have circles, right? And go figure out the circles these people are in. You'll see watches get passed back and forth. They get passed, you know, here and there. And Sometimes something gets passed around and it's not for a good reason. Yeah. Um I'm not saying that's always the case. I mean sometimes it's a watch.

finding its way to somebody who's better equipped to sell that kind of watch, or maybe that's what they're known for selling. But ask questions. Yeah? Ask them.

So You know, ask them on Instagram. I mean social media is pretty blind in that regard, but if somebody puts something out there and wants to sell it, then they should answer questions. Um yeah. And and sometimes you even find your watch there. I I've I've I had I think two, three occasions when I where I was looking for watches that I have and I've uh you know on Instagram because they were rare or whatever and I found the exact same watch.

Uh so I knew who owned it at one point. I knew who he bought who I bought it from so I could connect the dots, uh which is which is always fun to see, okay, this actually came from this dealer or or I even had a watch I ended up on uh on this Hodinky, you know, the vintage, whatever that's that thing's called, uh when they're selling vintage pieces. So yeah, you can uh social media is great. Uh they and the internet is not it's not forgetting anything. You will be able to find um

um uh uh certain pieces. But if not you definitely find information. You just need to find the right the right source. And uh absolutely the more information you have, the more you understand the prices and then then you know what why this that price is too too much or too cheap. And I and I or or just ask people that know it's it's

As you said, Mike. Um, ask most of the guys who who are I hate this word, but really experts or they know a lot about certain brands, they're they're usually they're very nice and very friendly and they like to help because they they enjoy the brand they don't want people to

to get scammed or or burnt by by an overpriced watch. So they will tell and and I also get a lot of these emails or DMs and hunger loss or otherwise and I always tell them, listen, it's a redial or this and that. I I wouldn't pay this much. No, and and and that's good. If you also find people are really enthusiastic about the brands, um, if they don't have never ending funds, uh, which very few do.

Um, when they sell watches, oftentimes they sell them very reasonably. That's what I found too. I mean, you mentioned it with your Angaloose. Um we told we weren't gonna give Lawrence any more um airtime, but when he sells a Movado, it's pretty reasonable. I can tell you, it's nowhere near the price of a watch that's sitting in a uh New York or um London high street jeweler. So these can be good good people to buy from. So figure out

No, but I mean but but but generally speaking, more reasonable. Yeah, so they're not funding a shop, they're not doing all this. And they're usually very transparent about what it needs, what it doesn't need. what it's what it's last you know, when it's last been service. So Well'cause he comes from the community, right? It's important for him that that somebody gets a nice watch. It's not Burlington Arcade and everything is that comes in plus thirty percent.

Yeah. So find the enthusiast for the brand and reach out to them. Sometimes They're not, you know doing posts all the time about selling something, but if you ask and say, hey, uh just curious, do you sell anything? Is do you have anything available? That's a pretty good way to go too. So All right. We're at a buck twenty. I think that's uh not too bad. No, absolutely. And I I really hope that we manage to

um clear some things up or uh or or manage to give some answers. Uh it's really not an easy question. Um and it it it lacks logic often like the vintage market of does because it's that's just how it is. But, um, And of course this is all our subjective opinion, right? I mean I'm sure that there are other people who will say these guys are nuts and we are, and we always have been, and it was never a question or we never hit it, but also

I think oh I I hope a lot of people will say, No, you're absolutely right. So You need to make your decisions at the end if you believe them or if you believe us. Just believe yourself. Do your research and and um hopefully you will you'll find the watch you need for the price you want it and you'll or you won't be. Um yeah, scammed is maybe the a strong word, but disappointed. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well tacky tales, let us know if we uh

Yeah. And if you need any questions about speedos, Roy is your guy. Yeah. Those we cannot help on market transparency or transparency of those. So