Super Bowl: The Full Experience Part 2

show and the officiating. I guess Charles Coplin says he experienced twelve minutes of terror followed by tequila each time he co produced the halftime and former official John Perry, who worked three Super Bowls, tells a great story about the pressure of being head raff in Super Bowl fifty three, the game right after the infamous officiating the Bacle in

the NFC Championship game down in New Orleans. Remember the past interference non call of the final minutes that the Saints will always believe costs them their Super Bowl shot and put the NFL officials under fire. So to follow that no pressure, right risk reward is one of the biggest reasons why you do it. From an official standpoint, You look around, you think, why would anybody do this? You never can win you never have a home game. No matter what you do, the people are gonna hate you.

No matter how good you get. They won't remember the You know, in a in an average NFL football game is a hundred fifty three plays. Generally there are two or three mistakes. They're human. That's where everybody focuses. No one will talk about the hundred fifty that they did correctly. It's just you get used to it. Uh. But the challenge is to go out and try to work a perfect game. Impossible, but he can strived excellence. And you know, as an official, when you leave that football field, you're

going in to take a shower. You know right there, whether you were good or bad. The unique inside of John Perry is coming up. But now the Super Bowl halftime shows. Of course, super Bowl fifty six in l A, dr Dre Snoop dogg Eminem, Mary j Blind, Kendrick Lamar were booked sort of full circle because Super Bowl one was also in l A. That inaugural halftime featured the University of Arizona Symphonic Marching Band, the Grambling Marching Band, Al hurt On trumpet, and the Anaheim High School High

Steppers drill team. And flag girls. The NFL has come aways in terms of star power and the emphasis place on the halftime show. For years. Of course it's been sponsored, were tens of millions of dollars to the NFL every year. It's also brought some controversy, the infamous wardrobe malfunction eighteen years ago now now. The following year, the NFL stepped in and took a much more active role than producing the halftime and my good buddy Charles Coplin became the

NFL executive in charge. I met Charles when he ran teleprompter in my early days of Sports Center. He wasn't very skilled at that, but he had many more important talents to become a producer at ABC Sports, eventually an NFL vice president, it in charge of programming, and the co executive producer of the halftime show for the six years that featured Sir Paul McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, The Who, and the greatest Super Bowl halftime

performance ever. Prince Okay, Charles, were going back in time to the years that you supervised the Super Bowl halftime show for the NFL first half winding down, Where are you? What are you thinking? What are you feeling. I am walking from one of the suites inside the stadium to the production truck, and I am feeling share terror and panic feeling because I mean, logistically, the show is a

herculean effort. And while you plan for months and for every contingency and all that stuff, at the end of the day, you know, like the repercussions if anything were to go wrong or are pretty pretty drastic. So yeah, I mean, you're just like fingers crossed. There's only a hundred twenty million people watching, right, There's only a show that is twelve minutes, with about eight minutes to set up a hugely elaborate stage. What could go wrong in that?

What could go wrong? Exactly my point? And when the twelve minutes are done and it's come off well, and you've entertained that many millions of people, shots of tequila, lots of hugs, uh, feeling of tremendous relief, elation, and a lot of reading of texts, you oversaw what many people would consider the greatest Super Bowl halftime show ever,

Prince in Miami. Many would consider it one of his greatest performances period, even though it was only twelve minutes long take us through how you got Prince, how you put the show together, and then how it unfolded in Miami with that incredibly dramatic rainstorm. Well, we had um people working for a that would reach out to the artists on our behalf, and Prince was interested early on. So um, we we felt like with that particular show, we had somebody who was really uh invested in doing

a really really good job. And he was so invested that he invited us to his hotel room at the Beverly Wilshire in Beverly Hills to play us um a track he had recorded a reference track of the full show of full twelve minutes, and it was an amazing experience meeting him. It was quite comical, uh, but he had done his homework, you could tell on the other shows. He almost went into it kind of with a competitive spirit, and I think to your point of it being his

best performance. You know, for us, he was such the obvious choice because he was like James Brown and Jimi Hendrix rolled into one, and he also had great appeal for the players, which was important. So uh, you know, the rest, as they say, is history. But he he was so diligent and had so much vision in the show that he put together that that it was. He was a great partner. So you're in that hotel from in l A. You're listening to the twelve minutes that

he's produced. What what's the reaction? What are you what are you thinking? Well, I have to tell you that that whole experience in that hotel room was surreal because first of all, when we knock on the door, he opens it and there's there's Prince and he doesn't look human like he he does not look human. He's he's diminutive, diminutive in the stature, and he's wearing a canary yellow suit and makeup, and he invites us in very warmly, and we start to walk in the door and we

realized that princes act really gliding. He's not walking, he's gliding. And that was because he was wearing those healy stinkers, you know that light up in the back. So he's around the hardwood four hotel and um, he sat us down there, about four or five of us. He sat

us down and he's kind of a low talker. So we're in this sweet on this white couch and he's talking really low and he's speaking in really esoteric, creative language, and he could you could kind of tell he was getting a little frustrated with us in terms of like not completely understanding where he was going. And so then he just said, well, rather than keep talking, I'm just gonna have you experienced this in the fourth dimension. And we were kind of like, I don't really know what

that is, but just just go with it. Does it mean you have to take something to get the fourth dimension? He didn't offer that. So he wheeled over to this sound system that he had in his hotel suite O and he he hit play or whatever, and it was just so loud, and it was that thundercrack, which was that lightning strike thundercrack, which was the beginning of We Will Rock You. And we sat there for twelve minutes just listening to this music, playing extremely loud and hearing

for the first time. Oh, he's not going to play Little Red Corvette or Raspberry Beret. He's covering songs. He's doing Proud Mary or All Along the wash Tower, the Best of You, and we were just taking it in. And then he wheeled over about eight minutes into this thing, and he had a box of tissues and he just gave each one of us a tissue and then he wheeled away and the music kept playing and then, uh, when it finally ended, you know, the beautiful ending of

Purple Rain, he came back in. He wheeled back in, and he now had a tissue and he held the tissue aloft and suggested to all of us to hold the tissue aloft. And we were and I'm like, I wonder how this is gonna end. And then he just sort of put it the tissue to his eye like it brings a tear to your eye, and he started laughing, and we were all very happy, and we left the room and we were like, it's gonna be a great show. You know what it does bring a tear to your eye.

And anybody that plays that that performance on YouTube, it is. It is powerful. It is moving. Purple Rain at the end is a sing along. You get the Florida a and m band is a part of it. Then the rain is dumping down. The legend has it that Okay, it's one of those Miami you're from Miami, I lived down there. It's one of those torrential rain storms that only the tropics can deliver, right and it's like that

all day. And I know there was some anxiety among their various parties, not among Prints, apparently about whether than not he could do this. You know, four different electric guitars, the dancers are in six inch heels, the stage is slick. I mean a lot can go wrong with that. And as legend has it, Charles when he was ask about the rain, he said, can make it rain harder? And I don't care if you're a performer or and I mean, that's just that's what you want to hear. Game on.

I'm ready for this. Yeah, no, that's true. And you know you're you're right. We both are Floridians. I was born there, and and it doesn't really rain like that in February. It rains like that in like June. So it was really freaky weather. And there was a concern like what if he doesn't go on? There's no plan B. And then when we got worried that, he said, can

you make it rain harder? I'm like, so Prince, so tremendous. Yeah, I didn't you know it added obviously, it added to the show because when you're playing a song called Purple Rain and it's pouring and the lighting is all purple and it's hitting the rain drops. I mean, it just couldn't have worked out any better. But at the time it was pretty scary. Two years later, Bruce Springsteen very different kind of artists. He doesn't work with pyrotechnics, he

doesn't work with elaborate light shows. He does three hour shows. Now you've got twelve minutes to del ever this, and he also knocked out of the park. People will consider that a great performance by Bruce and the eas Street Band, But but take us through that process. How do you get a Springsteen show squeeze and into twelve minutes? And when he goes on, by the way, he's not rushing to the music. He's kind of taking us to church.

He's playing the role of a preacher. And I'm sure you're thinking, Bruce, TikTok, TikTok, let's get to some songs here, because it's such a different animal for him, that kind of show. Yeah, another guy who in his own way was super competitive. You know, these guys understood this is

not their show. This is a unique situation, and they rose to the challenge of trying to adapt not only their songs but their performance to maximize the power that they would have within the constraints of a show like that. His manager John Landau even said to us, the super Bowl has been about electronic energy. We want to bring the stage lower and we want to have this intimate

human energy. And you know, you're not in a position where you're foolish enough to tell an artist what to play, So you are at the mercy somewhat of what they're choosing. And you know, Bruce's deal is he he walks around, he entertains, he takes his audience to church, and he had the right songs. So it was just a question of like supporting him and he had a lot of Uh. He really rose to the challenge of trying to conform

to the twelve minutes. He was one of the few artists that we worked with that wanted to rehearse ahead of time, and so we met him in New York City at eight thirty in the morning. They were on the stage boom and he kept doing it over and over again, and he would be like, twelve forty five. I got it to twelve forty five, you know, So he was he was fired up. Yeah. That again, it's just not what you think of Springsteen worrying about time constraints.

But that's why I was so brilliant. He can play to the back of the house in a huge arena or stadium, but that night, if you watch it, he played to the millions and millions watching at home, right to the cameras. It's pretty masterful, pretty hard thing for an artist to pull off. And I'm sure as a Bruce fan, you're sitting there watching this unfold, thinking, yes, very different from Prince, but man, he nailed it in

his own way. Well, Bruce was our white whale because he had always said no to the Super Bowl halftime show, and uh he John Landelle later told me that that, uh, I mean, I know this story to be true that Bruce called him during the Tom Petty show the year before and he said, why the bleep aren't we doing this show? And I think, um, we had to prove that it was a credible musical show and not just kind of a novelty And I think the artist that we had the years prior um really went a long way.

And also, you know, Frankly, and this is something that's still holds true. Artists were having harder and harder time selling their music. The industry was changing, album sales were declining, and this was an opportunity to give an artist a tremendous amount of exposure. And John Lando is as smart as they come as a manager, and and realized that some of the other artists did, We're not going to

get any better promotion than this. So Bruce finally says yes because of Petty, and Petty was sandwiched in between the years of Prince and Springsteen. You're a huge time Petty fan, as I am, but he wasn't the first choice of the folks there, and he was a guy that I know you've told me had unusual reaction when you were kicking around the idea of him playing the Super Bowl halftime. Yeah, I think Tom kind of felt maybe he wasn't worthy of it, which is ridiculous, I mean,

just ridiculous. But um he I think had to really gear up to do it. Um he was. Do you think he felt that Charles as biggest following Prince is obviously a challenge. Why do you think Petty felt I'm not worthy of this halftime stage? I think because Tom Petty is is a complicated was a complicated man. He's a tremendous talent. I think while he is I was a fantastic performer, and the Heartbreakers are a fantastic band.

I think he's more introspective. Bruce and Prince have more swagger. Uh. And I think one thing that was was great is that everybody, including Tom in the band and his manager, Tony Demitriati's, we all knew that he had songs that are anthems that everybody knew, and that we would be able to design a production around him to put him in the best possible light. I think he got more comfortable as we went on. I also think he was

concerned with the commercialism of the Super Bowl. You know, the man that's saying I won't back down is you know, part of the bridge Stone halftime show, and we had to sort of convince them that, you know, television from its very earliest days was presented by a sponsor. But those were the kinds of things that I think he

was very careful with and wisely so. But to no one's surprise, probably even not even to his surprise, he was fantastic and he found that much like artists who are more current and more recent, like Lady Gaga, justin timber Lake that the platform that the halftime provided was I meant say lucrative. He you had a conversation with Bruce about it afterwards. Many of the songs he played you talked about were quite old, They've been out for a long long time, but now new people were hearing him.

He made cash off of that. It worked out for him. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the metrics of artists that play the Super Bowl halftime show in terms of downloads, in terms of concert sales the weeks and months after. I mean, even Paul McCartney, if you go back and you look at McCartney's career at that point. I'm not suggesting he wasn't you know, a Beatle and he wasn't at the top of the list, but that to your point, You're you're being introduced to a whole new audience. You're

being reintroduced to an audience. And also you're that the budgets for that show are quite high, so you're getting to perform your canon of songs with tremendous production value, and as you suggested earlier, in front of a hundred fifty million people on TV and eighty thousand high rollers in the stadium. The only thing that always had to be kept in mind from these artists, they weren't paying

their money. This was not a ticket to see your show, So you had to be sort of aware that if you went deep on the album cut list, you know, that might not be let's talk about or Paul. Sir, Paul is the first halftime show that you oversaw at the NFL. And and yes, he could have played hundreds of songs and could have gone a lot of different directions with this. But I guess in the years when the NFL was now taking a much more active role in the wake of the wardrobe malfunction, um, with Janet

Jackson and Justin Timberlake, everything had to be scrutinized. Even with a guy like McCartney. You've told me what Paul was gonna wear on stage, The NFL had to sign off on things like that, and then what Beatles songs he was going to play? Yeah, well, you have to remember that was right after the wardrobe malfunction and the paranoia from everybody. Um was when I look back at it now, it's ridiculous. I mean, there were concerns about him singing California grass and how quaint right, and now

it's the title of the Disney Plus documentary. Um, we had to walk with him into his dressing room where he showed us what he was gonna wear. I mean, even if he wanted to commit a wardrobe malfunction, I don't even know what that would have been. The band had t shirts made up that that was a saying

that poked fun of the wardrobe malfunction. So there was just this incredible like concern and it sounds absert at the time, but you know, like we had to resist going all the way back to up with people because there was so much ter annoying about this. But he comes through and he's very cooperative. And then the year after that are The Rolling Stones, and the Stones catalog contains a few more songs and a few more lyrics

that could rattle some people. And so after dealing with cooperative Paul McCartney, here comes more rock and roll Royalty. But you've got Keith and you've got Mick, You've got these two alpha's. What was dealing with the Stones like in the run up in terms of trying to figure out what they were going to do with their twelve minutes. Well, I'll tell you a funny story. We were at the Hollywood Ball seeing the Rolling Stones and we ran into the McCartney guys who we had worked with the year before,

and they were tough. Paul was awesome, but they were tough, and they looked at us and they laughed and they were like, who's worse us through the Stones. You're like, that's kind of a tie. Um. The Stones are just different because you have two leaders, so you're dealing with, you know, kind of different camps, and the Stones are, you know, they're they're not that Paul isn't a phenomenal live performer, but the Stones are a looser band and

and they approached it in a very different way. And with Paul, we were very very aware, and we had spent months going through the four songs driving My Car and Get Back, Kate, Shoot and Living Let Die, and the Stones were still not exactly sure what they were going to play even several days before the show, which

is people have to understand how different that is. They've talked about how much work went into twelve minutes, so in their view, there was a lot of labor on their part, and it may seem like they just winged at the last minute, but I know they took it seriously. There's that shot after the performance when they're kind of wheeled away in golf carts and you know, it takes a lot of thing to make you know, Nick Jagger jump over the moon. But it looked like they were

pretty happy with how things had gone. And in the end, what you didn't have to censor lyrics to start me up? Which you make a grown man cry, you make a dead man come? I mean right out of the gate. That's their first song. Youther not have that on Global TV? Yeah? I mean you know Don Mischer, who's a legendary executive producer and director, directed that show and he also directed The McCartney Show and with McCartney, like he knew every beat,

but he was in the truck on where's Keith? There's Keith? Okay? Camera for like it was literally was like he was directing a football game, and uh, we were, yes in a situation where the Stones wanted to play two songs. Forget whether or not like you wanted to have a choir perform. You can't always get what you want or you wanted to do like Ruby Tuesday or whatever whatever your favorite songs are, and it's always so difficult to

decide on a set list. But they chose two songs, Start Me Up and a song from their new album, Rough Justice, which at the time was a bigger bang and it was their single and that's why they were doing the show. They wanted to sell records. And both of those songs had lyrics. You mentioned one of them, and Rough Justice there's a lyric in there and I won't say that lyric, and I wouldn't have even said the start re Up lyric, but it's your show, so um and uh. We would not permit them to sing that.

And it got into a whole conversation about censorship, and we said to them, you're going to have to take out that audio yourself, and whatever they say, that's that's exactly what happened. They were in charge of their own audio, and they did a dropout on those two songs, the two lyrics, and those two songs, Start Me Up and Rough Justice. I mean, in the end, it's kind of silly and much do about nothing, but those are the kind of things, you know. We had Stevie Wonder on hold.

He was our pregame act. He was ready to go for half time. Probably if we needed them. We didn't tell him, But how was our plan B. That's great behind the scenes, just in case the Stones get uncooperative the last minute, let's bring in Stevie Um. In the years after you left the responsibility of overseeing the show, the focus kind of changed a little bit, Charles. There were these combo acts. It wasn't enough to bring in one singular kind of musical giant. It was sort of,

let's appeal to different demographic groups. He had Bruno Mars and the Chili Peppers that you might not put those two acts together. Katie Perrey brought on Lenny Kravitz, Miss Elliott, Coldplay. They let's bring back Bruno Mars and Beyonce who had done an earlier show. Then you've got Lady Gaga, just in timber Lake ruined five, Travis Scott, Jennifer Lopez, and Shakira. So the focus really really changed after that. And and you've told me this you wanted to in the years

when you always saw it. You had the same idea to kind of do a collaborative acts, but it just never kind of came together. Yeah, I also should point out that they have definitely gotten younger, which I think is smart. Um, but we we would always try and figure out like this solo artist thing is not gonna last, like you're running out of artists, and and the songs themselves are really super important because you don't want to

alienate an audience and certain music is polarizing. So the thought was that if we could put together collaborations, we can reinvent this thing instead of always just picking one artist. And I had meetings with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, with Rolling Stone, I was fortunate enough to spend some time with Rick Rubin, and at least when I was there, we couldn't pull it off. I think the thing you always have to be careful about is

do these artists together make a better show? Because you know, I love the Red Hot Chili Peppers and I love Bruno mar Ours. That probably would have been a better show if it was just Bruno, but it definitely adds

to the appeal. And for instance, this year, I think they're they're going to do something which I think is going to be pretty special, and uh my hats off to them for being able to figure out how to Yeah, I want to get to that because that is a lot of excitement around, you know, Snoop, dr Dre, Mirror, J Blise, Kenrick Lamar again putting people together. But jay Z kind of overseeing this, his company involved in producing it. And jay Z is the guy that I know you

were hopeful of involving much much earlier. That didn't exactly come to pass then. But in this next Super Bowl at will, yeah, we had I thought we had to deal with jay and there were certain people, um that decided for whatever reason, that they didn't want to do it, and that that wasn't j J was ready to go. So I find it kind of interesting now that he's the executive producer of the Super Bowl halftime show. So the powers that be the network involved basically they didn't

love that idea at the time. That year was in Dallas, Cowboys of some say I think in Fox has some say and and you know, hip hop's polarizing, and but I think things have changed, um And I think Colin Kaepernick has changed a lot of the way they've approached this. I think I think things have leveled out for good reasons. UM. And I think that ever since jay Z has been involved. UM, I think this is the year three the shows have been really, really good, and he's been able to put

together this type of artists. So you know, maybe we were a little before our time with that one, but he he would have been great and still will if he decides to put himself on the stage. And obviously his wife ended up doing the show a couple of times, so I'm glad he's involved. I think I think they're doing good things. It's gonna be interesting to say, you know, thirty years after the chronic with the speaking of lyrics.

I mean, have to tweak some things there too. But but all those folks on stage in l A by the way, in daylight because of the West Coast kickoff. So I'm not sure the last time those folks all got together from stage and performed in sunlight outdoors, but I look forward to it. Daylight's hard, you know, I think people like a lot of people. Uh. I think the last one in daylight might have been the cold

Play Beyonce A Bruno show. And you know, you gained so much you take prints out of Nighttime or Bruce or some of these other shows we've talked about. There's something called theatrical lighting, and you lose that. I would imagine the producers of the show this year. I thought about that, but it's it's more of a challenge when you're doing the show in daylight on the West Coast. I want to close Charles with stories about a performance. It was not at the super Bowl halftime. You two

did a halftime show, but it was. I think if it isn't, if it isn't, Prince, this is perhaps the most powerful memorable musical performance associated with any sporting event, and that's you two and Green Day in two thousand six when the super Dome reopened and they performed before a Saints game in the wake of Katrina, when that sports venue had been turned into a shelter. It was

a grim and gruesome place during that tragic hurricane. But the city was going to come back to life and YouTube and Green Day we're gonna be a part of that. And even though you didn't oversee that in the serable at halftime, take me there for for that musical performance that sort of like change everybody. Yeah, that one was all hard. You know, that was a really cool experience.

The league wanted to do something because it was going to be the first game back at the Superdome, which obviously had been a shelter for people who were homeless from Hurricane Katrina, and the Saints were very much a part of that city, and they had been on the road the year before, and this was going to be the first game back at home, and it was a Monday night game on ESPN, and we had heard um from the guy that we had hired, the late David Saltz, who was a real valuable part of our team, that

you know, hey, stop whatever you're doing, I think we can get YouTube. And I'm like what. And the Edge had the Music Rising charity where they were giving musical instruments to two people who were less fortunate, and long story short, you two had been doing something with Green Day and one thing led to another, and the next thing we knew we were putting together a show at the beginning of the game, and you two came on

and saying beautiful Day and bono. You know, rift about the ninth Ward and all that stuff, and of everything that I was ever involved with, that was the emotional high that that was that place was you talk about church. There was something really special going on in that building that night. I can do the emotion in your voice right now just thinking about that, that's a power away beyond a band and music and a football game to sort of help that city get resurrected in that time.

And it was cool because, hey, they were so thankful. I was not involved in this show, but they were so thankful with the super Bowl that they had done after nine eleven, which was very special, and I think they really appreciated the platform and to be able to come in there and do something that was philanthropic, because the super Bowl halftime is many many things, but it's

not philanthropic. I mean it's a commercial. It's a commercial performance, and this was you know this, nobody really got paid for this. This was sort of no pun intended pro bono and it just was one of those things where it was an accident and it came together in the best way you possibly could, and it healed the city and the Saints you know, the rest of history. They went on blocked the kick, the pun at the beginning of the game when the game, so everybody that was

involved with that, I think it's emotional and things. That was one of the best things they were ever involved with for the right reasons. Well, thanks for sharing stories. I would encourage people to go back and watch some these performances on YouTube, because when the game is unfolding, you're trying to get a sandwich, maybe trying to use the facilities, and it's a it's a weird way to appreciate music with perhaps a crowd full room. When you sit back there and you watch these there's a power

to him. So I know you you take great pride in the role that you played those years. And thanks for sharing the stories. Yeah, thanks for having me. For more inside stuff that's NFL related, check out a new podcast the Charles co hosts, Out of Our League wherever you get your podcasts up now. John Perry, Now you might recognize John as the NFL rules expert for ESPN on the Monday and Football broadcast. He was an NFL official for nineteen years, the last twelve as a head referee.

That's the man in the white hat in charge of the game. John worked in three Super Bowls, including that one in Miami were Prince Stole the show, and the one the mccordy Twins one together with the Patriots. You see it's all tying together. Well, John, help us understand what it feels like to be the head referee in charge of the most watched television event of the year and the ultimate game in football. My gut just started to beginning to journ a little bit as I was

thinking through that. UM. Well, to put it in context, you know, Number one, to get there is decades. You start off at Pop Warner, work your way through junior high high school Division three JUCO D two D one, get into the NFL, and that just to learn that game takes three or four years, and then you hope that you're good enough to get there. So you're talking when I when I worked, my first one was two

and a half decades. To get to that position, you get the assignment roughly two weeks before the game is played, which gives you an opportunity to take care of tickets, travel logistics early on, so then you can turn your focus to the game. But UH, that two week period has carries every emotion from fear, anxiety, nerves, reflection. UH, your family all that they have put up with for all these this time to get to that position. The build up, you feel it, everything, all the conversations on

every talk show is the Super Bowl. You feel every ounce of that uh, and it takes roughly about a half of a quarter the first quarter to find your rhythm and find your feet, uh, to to get back to what you know is normal, which is just focusing on football. So you hope the worst case scenario is some controversial judgment call you gotta make in the opening drive before you have your feet underneath you. Yeah, and I've been there, uh yeah, getting through the coin toss.

I mean, you're just trying to find saliva as you run out to the fifty yard line because you know a hundred hundred million people are watching this. You described in decades of worked, the simplest thing is to describe a holding kindally. But you are the man on the microphone, and so you've got to get the mic turned on and convey competence and command and confidence in the call and all that stuff. And you do see occasionally the nerves come into play, just as they do for players

and broadcasters in that situation. But did you have to remember how to how to use the mouth and use your words in those situations? The first Super Bowl that I was a referee, where the referee is the white hat, the guy that does all that coin toss ceremony truly. Right before I ran out the the media people that were standing next to me, I told the gal I said, I have no saliva but can't swallow. And she felt for me and she gave me a life saver real quick.

She said, here, put this in your mouth as you run out, chew it. You'll find some saliva. Thankfully I did. I got through it. Most coin tosses in the super Bowl, ironically fifty plus super bowls, you'll find an air, a mistake in the Super Bowl, mispronunciation pronunciation of uh of a celebrity. One of the guests, Um, We've had a coin toss where nobody called heads or tailed before it was flipped. They choked on the coin toss. Wow, anything is possible in the Super Bowl. Yeah. So, thankfully I

got through mine. So the first time you referead Super Bowl two thousand, eleventh season, it's in Lucas Oil. Happens to be your home state of Indiana. It is the most watched program in US television history at the time. You go a hundred and sixties seven million people, you know, drifted through at least part of that game. That's when Eli Manning beat Brady and uh and the Giants, you know, came came from behind a win that that Mario Manningham catching.

Just watched the replay. Thankfully, the official looks to be in perfect position because it was the key playing the game. A beautiful over the shoulder throw. He gets the fingertips, gets the feet down, and they got right there. Thankfully, didn't blow the call at that moment. Yes, thankfully, you know the and I look back, nine penalties for fifty

two yards. Do you feel like if you haven't played a huge role in the outcome, if the teams have played cleanly and there hasn't been a need to toss a lot of flags and get involved, that that's that's a successful game for the officiating crew. Absolutely, No matter what level, no matter what game, the highest compliment is to go unnoticed. And I think we did that in that football game. Whether there was nine or nineteen. You hope that they're all there. You hope you get good

game flow, good pace. Um. But yes, the highest compliment is for somebody to say, man, I don't remember seeing you on the Super Bowl and certainly not be that the subject of of a talk show afterwards. That's that you're like an offensive lineman the less said about you, the better, right, because if they're they're using your name, it's usually not a compliment. That is very true. So fast forward too, has an eighteen season Super Bowl fifty three.

It's in Atlanta, and and you're calling it a career correct. So you have the honor of officiating in your third Super Bowl and the second time as the head referee. This comes one game after what's acknowledges an officiating debacle in the NFC Championship game the Rams and the Saints, involving a non call of a pass interference that actually led to the changing of the rule where for the first time, a judgment call could be challenged by a coach and reviewed by replay. So what was the context

leading up to that Super Bowl? Off of tug up Talk shows, it was NonStop for two weeks that the Saints have been screwed. You know it had had a p I been called, they could first down, kneel down, kneel down chip shot win the game. As it is, they lost in overtime. A lot of things went into that, but the officials took the brunt of that. John Soon What was that like that period leading up to Super

Bowl Uh. In the season. The one thing that that most people wouldn't not know is the amount of preparation from an official standpoint that goes into a game. Roughly, for every hour of football, there's probably ten hours of preparation. I'm most proud of my preparation for Super Bowl fifty three because of everything that you just mentioned. The world, in our world, it was on fire. It was Uh.

They were coming after officials. They couldn't believe how a crew could miss a call like that, impact the winning team, impact who went to the super Bowl. Our world was attacked, and that's how we prepared for the Super Bowl. Everything that I showed my crew leading up to Super Bowl three kickoff dealt with World War two attacks, Normandy leaving, leaving the boat, attacking the beach. Can't be defensive, we have to be proactive. You've got to be aggressive, but

under control. Uh. Used speeches from patent the president, Um, what was behind that? Trying to try to tell your your fellow officials. What were you trying to to get them to understand? By quoting all these generals and these military leaders, it was metaphoric. Uh, this is who we are. You you didn't choose to be in this position like an eighteen year old that was going to Normandy. We didn't choose to work the Super Bowl, the biggest game

of our life. Following two weeks of criticism. Get the noise out of your head, clear your head, find your rhythm, find your soft space, and go out and do what you know you should be doing. Um And for three days in Atlanta, every pregame had video music, pictures, storylines trying to metaphorically tell the crew, this is who we are and at the end of the day, when it's ten eleven o'clock at night Sunday evening, we will be victorious. I had no idea that that kind of a motivation

look aproach went into it. I know you guys are stating the rules, you're looking at what the teams have done. I assume you're watching some tape, just like a broadcaster would be aware of tendencies and things that might come up. I did not know that it was it was motivational

or inspirational. Is it just for that game, John, just because of the backdrop, or is that normal stuff before the Super Bowl for the for the head referee to to play kind of a combination of you know, New Rock, need Lombardi, whatever, whatever you coach, metaphor you want to make well. Anybody that worked on my crew would tell you that's pretty That was pretty much my stick for

twelve years. UM. We would certainly spend time in the xs and ohs, everything that you mentioned, formations, tendencies, red zone, coverage, mechanics, zones, everything that goes into the game. The super Bowl, however, is emotional and it can be a mental triangle of issues. If you don't find your quiet zone and your rhythms of what you do play after play after play and

what you should be doing it. It takes a it takes a man is to go to another human being that does what he does and says, you're out of it. You're mentally not here. I can just see it. You're nervous, find find something. So you try to do some different things. Did that happen in the Super Bowl? John? Mid game?

Did you have to go over and console a less experienced person in the crew and say, hey, listen, just like just like a quarterback Wood in the Hartle say hey, calm down, I can see you're you're off your game, but you're okay. Yeah, yeah, that game For example, you know all the officials where the earpieces. We call them the O two oh official to official communications system. After the first drive, you could just tell that nobody was comfortable.

I brought everybody together and said, take those things out of your ears. I don't want to hear anybody speak for the next five minutes. Everybody just work what you know you're supposed to work. Then we'll regroup on the next time out, and if it's better we've all feeling better, we'll put him back in which we did. What you do? You talk about being proactive and being aggressive, and basically it is reactive, right, I mean you're reacting to what's going on in the field, just like we do in

the booth. Yet it's dangerous sometimes to do anything that's challenging with the mindset of mistake avoidance. I lecture people want to do this as you get to a point where your focus becomes not avoiding mistakes but just being good. Can you ever get to that place or is it always about don't miss this, don't don't overstep it? Is it mistake avoidance at the highest level. Risk reward is one of the biggest reasons why you do it. From an official standpoint, you look around you think, why would

anybody do this? You never can win, You never have a home game. No matter what you do. The people are gonna hate you. No matter how good you get. They won't remember the You know, in a in an average NFL football game is a hundred fifty three plays. Generally there are two or three mistakes. They're human. That's where everybody focuses. No one will talk about the hundred that they did correctly. It's just you get used to it. Uh. But the challenge is to go out and try to

work a perfect game. Impossible, but he constrived excellence. And you know, as an official, when you leave that football field, you're going in to take a shower. You know right there, whether you were good or bad. You were a second generation officials, so you should have known better. I mean, your dad, Dave was was also a legendary official. Happened to be a side judge, which means he's in sort of the defensive backfield looking for pass interference and things

like that. In Super Bowl seventeen, that was the strike season UM, the two season UM when when Joe Theisman and John Riggins and the Washington team beat Miami's Killer Bees. So, so you were at what age and what were you feeling watching your dad you do that job. Did you have any idea at that moment that you would someday like to do what he was doing that very day? When I look back now, I I do tell people I think I was born to officially it UH to

put into context. When I was growing up, my dad was a Division one basketball player official and an NFL football official. My mother, who nobody talks about UH from an officiating standpoint, was a high school girls official score for basketball. She was a swimming referee. So conversations at my house at dinner around the table, they were odd and different than most scintillating stuff unless you're born to do what you're doing. Yeah, talking about false starts so

over the French fries. UM. So yeah, I think I was. I think I was born to do this. UM. I learned through us MOSIS. When I was nine years old, some of the best NFL football officials were coming to our house because it was a mid midway meeting point between Chicago in Michigan. So Jerry Mark Bright's and the Dean Looks and the Dick Dolacs. UH. These people would all converge on my dad's house in the summer for two or three days and go through the rules. And

I was the I was the gopher. Get the cokes, get the drinks. We need more ice there, guys that chew tobacco, you know, emptiest spittoon. I did all that, so I was always around it. I don't remember a world ever without officiating. What do you remember about that day when when the Washington took on Miami and I just see your open he doesn't blow it. But were you were you watching the game through that lens? John, I don't think it was then because it was eighteen. Uh, immature.

I think I was proud. I don't. I didn't at that point, of course, at eighteen, how do you really realize what it took to get there? Now I do know now I carry more pride today than I probably did at eighteen as an eighteen year old. My dad that's his job, this is what he does. But now I get it. Well. Relationships with the parents obviously change over time. We don't view our dads the same way

win or eighteen as you do when we're adults. But you would get into the profession and you get to the highest level of the profession that he wants it, and he ended up being, you know, supervisor of Big Ten officials, having an enormous impact on the sport and in officiating in another capacity. But but his career, like a lot of players, but like very few officials, actually cut short. His on fielder cut short by an injury,

which is had to be you know, jarring to his world. Yeah, he had a ball game in Chicago where Doug Plank took him out by accident. Freak, but the helmet went right into my father's hip. And all the years of basketball officiating up and down the court, the lakes were probably deteriorating to begin with, but that hit, he never walked the same. Two hip surgeries thereafter, never walked the same. So, John, you lose your dad for money? Yes, that's it's an

overwhelming emotional experience. And then you referee innociable for the first time in forty six in your home said Indianapolis, And that's the Giants over the Patriots games. We're talking about. What were your emotions going into that game? And as it unfolded, you had to feel a presence, I mean, you had to know that somewhere he's seeing it and he's proud. Yeah, without a doubt. Sorry. So I never

worked a game without talking to my father beforehand. For kind of the what you mentioned New Rockney earlier, I would get the new Rockney speech from my dad. You know, hey, go out and have a great game, make him big, make him be there, do your thing. Uh. That season, he passed away in May of two thousand and eleven, So I worked that entire season. I had none of those phone calls. Um. So it was tough. It was really tough. And I get the nod to work the

super Bowl. Super Bowl. It's in my own state. It's in a city that I lived in for twelve years. Uh, my family's there. I have a ton of friends there. And I walked around the city numb. Uh. We had the DP patches that were used in the college game on the hats of the officials, and I took about a hundred. Everywhere I went, I dropped a d p uh logo um I had. My father was cremated, and the remains of my father were in my flag, they

were in my bean bag. I took remains, ironically with with another official whose father had passed away and we we probably would get in trouble today if they knew it, but we put some on the football field before the game. Leading up to it, everything I thought about was my dad, Um and I. We had a devotion Sunday morning where

we had a pastor come in read Walker. It's a very long story, but at the end of the devotion, read realized I had had allowed some fathers to speak, Carl Paganelli seek Sr. Who was very much involved with football officiating, Jene Sterritor Senior, very much involved, so they spoke to the crew. Read Walker realized that I was

I was the guy. I was the empty guy. My dad wasn't there to speak, and read Walker put me in the middle of the room, sat me on a chair, and he did a a ceremony called the laying on of the hands, and then probably was forty people in this room and they all touched each other and the inner people touched me, and Red Walker said a prayer and it was uh, life changing. That's the only way to say that. It was electric. I could feel everybody and that that just carried with me through out the day.

Barely got through the coin toss, got to the goal line, to start the game, and I broke down emotional. I was, I was in tears, sobbing. I don't remember who the punt return guy was, but he said, met, you must be really nervous. You're out of your crying. I'm like, oh, it's a deeper story than that. I'll be fine. But I can tell you I've worked one perfect game in my life, and that was Super Bowl. For I didn't work it. I I would tell you with no doubt,

with no reservation, that I had a guardian angel. I'm sure as my father that saw everything and relay that information to me some way. Somebody would call it. We had a past in inference and I say, I know his right arm grabbed the receiver's left him. Yeah, how do you know that? You're not even looking down there? We had down by contact, actually with an inteverted whistle by another official. Thankfully we had a flag. I knew all that. I said, well, thankfully we have flag because

you blew your whistle. Yeah I did. I was, I went way too fast. Everything that took place that day, I saw it, processed it, but it was because of him. Wow, what an incredibly powerful experience. I mean, it's the sort of thing that defies explanation. You do look for reasons beyond our understanding, because to know exactly what's going on with twenty two players and the entire officiating crew to

that that level, it's it's multidimensional. The job you're doing, and it's i mean, the perfect game is difficult for any player. Any broadcasts are, certainly any official But it's what an incredible thing that you had that that day. Wow, what happened? Would you think at the end? How did the game end? When you walked off? I didn't want to to end because there was that connection that was hard to get anywhere else. Yeah, well, thank you for

sharing that. So after the controversial NFC title game, it's the Patriots and the Rams. It's the last game that you're officiating, right, maybe the dullest Super Bowl ever. I don't know how it felt for you, but there were no touchdowns until the fourth quarter, the lowest scoring game ever.

If the Patriots defense was suffocating Jared Goff and Todd Gurley in this high powered Rams offense, and people were tuning out because they wanted to see some touchdowns, what was it like being on the field for the dullest Super Bowl every dullest in some minds. Now, we would tell you that we were very proud of the fact that we anticipated exactly what you just mentioned. We figured it was McVeigh versus Eli check and the opposite on the other sideline, low scoring chess match, a turnover will

determine the win. And I enjoyed it. But I'm a purist. I'm not a I like defense. I like those uh seventeen to tens, four to seventeens. I'm not a big fan of the I I like defense too, but three three after three, when you got a lot of casual people watching who don't watch a lot of games and far from just the purist audience, is not exactly what the network has in mind. But in the end, there

was drama. There was the Brady had the touchdown drive and they end up scoring and then adding a field goal. But you know, you got Belichick on one sideline. I think it was his ninth Super Bowl, Brady over there, same number, and you've got Sean mcveigh's thirty three at the time. I think he's probably half of Belichick's age.

The dynamic would be interesting to hear from the officials perspective was the assumption went b belichicks Ginnick at the call, and this young whipper snapper over here went in doubt, it's not going to go the Rams way. I know that's what fans thinking about what officials think, but that's but that is what people are. That's what's going through their mind. Well what should go through their mind is this.

You do recognize it before the game? You do? I mean you walk in a New England sideline with Tom Brady there and Bill Belichick there. Let's be realist. They are who they are and they demand and should receive the respect that they've earned. On the other side line is a young coach who has led his team to this point. It's exciting. You also recognize how brilliant this young guy is and how innovating he will become once

the game begins. They it's eleven and eleven, somebody's got a blue jersey, somebody's out of white jersey, and all you know is the numbers on the back. You don't see twelve, Brady, you see twelve. And when you're talking to both coaches, it's the same because you never want anybody to say, well, you know what they're treating a little bit differently. Now, I don't believe that that's true, and I can tell you that based on the nineteen years of doing it at that level. Three super Bowls,

a championship. We don't really care once the game begins who anybody is. It's advantage or disadvantage. That's the way it should be. There's always gonna be people think that whoever's whoever's screaming the loudest or the most often, or he's trying to influence the call. He's doing that for a reason. He's not just trying to exercise his voice. He's trying to lobby that he thinks it's gonna work. It's reassuring to hear that that. You don't think it

happens that often that way. I don't, despite what others think. Uh, you know, sometimes there is conversation with Tom Brady that you know that we'll try to buy a call and be a little bit animated for TV purposes. You just you just laugh. I don't know, not enough, give me a break, pick a bigger one. The very first super Bowl you work in the OH six season, Dan in Miami, one of the few rainy super Bowls, was famous for something other than the fact that the Colts beat the Bears.

Prince gave In the Rain one of the most legendary musical performances ever. Forget the Super Bowl A halftimes and it outrated the game. At one point there were you know, a hundred and forty million people and tuned into that. So I do know what you guys doing a half time. You're not watching a halftime shell but you come out there for the third quarter. Any idea that, like television and music history have just been made on that field. No, the interesting thing is you go week by week by week,

and you got a twelve minute halftime. Now it takes roughly thirty seconds to get to the locker room, thirty seconds to get back, So you really have an eleven minute a half time where you can use the restroom if you need to. You might discuss a couple of plays, you might discuss, hey, going to the second half based on what I'm seeing. Here's tendencies, formations that we need to discuss. You're trying to get that out of the way.

Officials have paperwork that they note their fouls and describe them. So there's there's administrative stuff that we're doing in there in a ten to eleven minute window. Then all of a sudden you get to this game and it's twenty minutes plus. Um, you do know that it is Prince because you wish you were out there, especially being a music guy. I would have loved to have been. They I've already used the rest room. I think I'm gonna

spend the rest of the eighteen minutes on the sideline. Um, you can't even hear it, sadly, Um, but the stories when you were finished. Of course, you've got family and friends that you meet up with and have dinner, drinks, whatever the case may be. After the Super Bowl and they're they're not talking about the game, They're talking about halftime. I wish you could have seen it. That's what my wife said. Unbelievable, actually raining, purple rain, the sheets are waving.

Come on, this is crazy. Um. I have watched it multiple times since then. Today it is still as good as it was then. John is as correct about that as he was on ninet nine percent of his calls. If you haven't seen it in a while, watch Prince again on YouTube. It moves me every time. Now there's one more scrutinized aspect of the super Bowl. We haven't touched on yet the super Bowl commercials, and it turns out we have one more story. We'll leave you with this.

Back to nineteen ninety nine. Jennifer and I not yet engaged. We're gonna go to the super Bowl in Miami. My Broncos had beaten her Jets to get there and she was crushed like all Jets fans. But as a consolation prize, Jennifer had booked a super Bowl commercial. That's a huge deal. The money is good, great exposure if he keeps running to get residuals. So the commercial is for Pizza Hut and Jennifer gets cast as a secretary for Donald J.

Trump real estate Magnet. The shoots in New York. It's Jennifer Trump, a camera operator and an audio operator in the back of a limo for two hours in a driving rain so they couldn't leave. So we get down in Miami. We're on a him at Bronker's are in the game. She's gonna see her commercial. We go to a bar in the sadium to grab a drink before we go to our seats, and all of a sudden, Jennifer looks up and says, oh, I got my super Bowl commercials on. We watched the commercial and Jennifer says,

oh my god, I got cut out. And then she said, well, you know, during the shoot, Mr Trump did keep saying repeatedly as I tried to fix my makeup, it's not about her, It's about me. Then she said, make that drink a double. So there's our super Bowl commercial story. You hope you enjoy both of our super Bowl batts. The Full Experience episodes a kickoff season four. Huge thanks to John Perry and Charles Coppin. Also grateful to my buddy Leaf fitting ESPN Senior Vice president longtime producer in

College Game Day for his help on this episode. As always, grateful to Jennifer, my co executive producer and A. Jason White celt for his editing skills. Talk to you soon,