STEPHEN A. SMITH

followers between his Twitter and Instagram. I wanted to talk to him about what sets him apart, what's gotten him to the top, the influence of five strong women in his life. He was very open about his challenges and setbacks, about loss and his mortality, recovered all sorts of stuff, including his excellent acting on General Hospital and his big plans for the future. Well, stephen A, you are an extremely busy man. I am grateful for you making some time.

I hope you can enjoy this. This is interesting for me because we've never really had a real conversation. I think we've been in the same building a few times it fights or NBA games. We've we've I've at least I've admired you from Afar for a long time, but this will be the first ever conversation. We've had no pre interview, so there's no safety that here we go. PLEA,

the pleasures all my man. You've done great, great work for us throughout the years, and ESPN wouldn't be what it is and I wouldn't be where I am if it were not for people like you. So when you've made the request for me to come on, I was happy to do so. I might edit out the compliments. I usually do that. But besides your obvious genius as a communicator and your thoughtfulness as a commentator, a couple of things I remire about you is is your resilience.

You've been knocked down a few times, really from the start of your life, but certainly throughout your career, and you are a risk taker professionally, which I really appreciate. Let's let's start with their resilience. Man, how many times in your life or your career do you think you've been knocked down and in the in the view was of other people? Finished? Man, I got left back in fourth grade from having a first grade reading level that

was being knockdown. Uh, humiliated by the whole neighborhood who was aware that I got left back and I had a reading deficiency, I had dyslexia. Um, even though that's what we didn't know that at the time that it actually happened in the seventies. So that's a knockdown. Um, not making the basketball team uh my junior year in high school and way having to wait until my senior year and then I made it. But being knocked down my junior year, um, you know, being in college, cracking

my kneecap in half playing for Clarence Big House games. Uh, and ultimately having a forfeit my scholarship to come back home to rehab because it was a division juke program and my mother's insurance would not cover me unless I came home to New York and not staying North Carolina. That was a huge knockdown, um, you know. And being let go by ESPN in uh two thousand and nine

over a contract dispute. That was a huge letdown. So you know, I would tell you, by and large about five or six times I've been knocked down where you know, people thought I was finished quite frankly, getting canceled in two thousand and seven, even though I had done three hundred and twenty seven shows and conducted over seven hundred and eighty interviews in that span. Um it was still considered a failure. That was definitely being knockdown with people

wondering where my career is going. Uh So I would tell you about five or six strong times where people thought I was finished. That's about right. Yeah, the story is definitely one of comebacks. You mentioned the ESPN situation. I mean clearly at that time they didn't see the value and you the eventually have showed the company and then something it's a contract dispute I've heard you describe,

but you know you came back. First of all, I want to ask where were you emotionally and mentally at that point when you're sort of on the streets after having a budding career and having a visible position. I was devastated, first of all. I felt like, um, I did not deserve to lose my job, to lose the show. Sure, but I was on NBA shoot Around at the time before it was called NBA Countdown, UM I was hosting. Quite frankly, UM I was I was, you know, an

NBA analyst and inside of a sports center. Um I was doing a radio show as well, and for me to wake up one day and after having four jobs and having absolutely nothing, Um, I really felt like I got screwed over and I felt like it was grossly unfair and I played the role of victims. But that only lasted for about eight hours. And then my mother got rested us soul looked at me and I'll never forget,

And I'm writing a memoir. I've got my book with Simon and Shuster coming out next January, and I tell a story about how my mother brought me up a trade of food because I went over to her house this language in her house and didn't go to my house, went back in the bunk bed that I grew up in all of this stuff that just laid there for a couple of days. And then she came to me one day and handed me a plate of food and on the plate, on the tray with the food was

a mirror, one of them handheld mirrors. And I said, what is this for? She said, that's for you to take a look at yourself, where you feel when you start ready, when you're ready to stop, to the surf for yourself. She said, I'm quite sure it wasn't all their fault. When did you look at you? She said, you're my son? How did I raise you? You know this? You aren't innocent in all of this. And when she made me do that, I was forced to reflect what my attitude was like, the kind of approach that I

took towards work, particularly my superiors, my supervisors. What kind of attitude did I have? How did I speak to them? How enthusiastic was I about work? Um? Was I too argumentative? Did I challenge every little thing that I not picked? My battles? You start thinking about all of those things, and when you reflected on those things, when I reflected on those things, I realized I was more to blame

than they were. And because I had more culpability on my shoulders and in my heart than they did, I eradicated any blame in their direction, regardless of what they may have done. I put it all on me because since I was able to point to a multitude of things that I was doing that I would not advise any employee to do. I just said, I'm never gonna get beyond this unless I own all of it. And that's what I did. Moms are filled with wisdom, and I want to circle back to her a little bit later.

But that's a rare place to arrive at, Steven. I gotta tell you, people take things very personally. It's hard not to get wounded. Very few people can arrive at a place to say I had more to do with that sat back than anybody else. But you did to ride back in the business with a place of wisdom. I think realizing from what you said about this that it's not personal, it is business. It's far less about loyalty than it is about utility. What can you do for me now and going forward, not not what you

did in the past. What can you do now? And to a company you are an asset or you're not where you are, but you you You come back like hardened by that experience. But I think a lot wiser about what can be a pretty murky business at times, no question about it. And I think that you know you able to reflect on a certain things, like for example, you know I would see guys like i'd see you colling college football games. I see guys calling Monday and football.

I see guys do a lot of different things and I'm like, no, I can't do that. I know better, I know my position. But I can be in this position where I can help generate money for the company if you just gave me the opportunity. Why can't I have that opportunity. Well, bosses make decision all the time, and everybody's coming to them thinking that they could do something, and you have to make a decision as to what you think is better. So they have a right to

make those decisions because they're in those positions. And then the other thing was I looked at myself and I said, Okay, what was my definition of popularity? People screaming my name in the streets, people saying hey Stephen, Hey, blah blah blah blah blah. Well, guess what that can't necessarily be monetized. What's your ratings? What kind of revenue do you bring into the company or to a particular show, add sales,

things of that nature. Q scores, all of these other things that we're supposed to pay attention to that validate I value to the people who actually make these decisions, so they could use that data to basically decipher what you're worth and what you're not. I paid no attention to any of that stuff. And so my mother would say to me once I ultimately confessed to her that that was the case, she said, well, if you don't know your value, who are you to tell them what

your value is? And I had no answer. I had no answer. And so when I looked at it from that perspective, I said, I put them in a position of strength because I'm relying on my emotional feelings to somewhat try and dictate what they should do when it's their job not to make emotional decisions. They're supposed to

use other means to decipher and determine your value. And when the moment I realized that, it was an epiphany that was a career altering because Chris, from that day forward, I detached emotions from business and I was able to look at something to say, Okay, we're supposed to be in the money making business. Was supposed to be in the ratings and revenue business. Here's what I bring to the table. And I've been fixated or making sure I understood,

at least to some degree, what my value was. From that day and the day that happened, I depersonalized everything. It made me a better professional, and it made me a better man and a better adult. And that is why I'm here, I'm where I am today. We're in the same business, same employer, but I I see our roles is fundamentally different. I mean your job as I see it. Maybe you disagree, if so, straighten me out. But to to deliver your insight, your opinions, it's about

you and your vibe and directing and dominating debates. I document events I did. I did to show her opinions matter. And you were expected to throw your two cents in on game, David, as you as you call a game. It's about others. It's about documenting what's going on. You certainly put your spin on it. Does the idea of doing that bore you because it doesn't let you be you and and express your thoughts. It doesn't bore me. It's just that for me, the Chris Fowlers of the

world are un rarefied. Here you're able to document and and I mean this complimentary, but it's for you, and it's for people in your position. You've earned the right to be where you are, and so as a result, there's a comfort that comes along with it. You go to a negotiating table, you are Chris Fowl and this is what you've done and you've done it on an exceptional level to a point where you're not devalue by the company that you work for or the companies that

are in pursuit of your services. Most folks that have the role of documenting and chronicling what's transpiring, to some degree their devalued because not enough attention is paid from a monetary standpoint to what they can bring to the table. Whereas when you're giving your opinions. In my case, I did that on a newspaper level. I did chronicle, I did document I was a beat writer for many years, and stuff like that. That never leaves me. I don't think it's one of the other. With what I do.

I think at the end of the day, my opinion, my perspective is expected, but also the responsibility that I have to pay attention to what's being documented the chronicles, so I can give a reference point as to why my perspective is what it is. People who just go out there, I want to run them out, have no sources, have no context, have no just have no foundation for which they from which they gathered the information. But they

just want to give opinions. No that you've got some people who are doing that, but they're not very successful at this. The people who are successful at this are people, for the most part, that have been journalists that had a responsibility at one time or another to chronicle and and document things and in document events and what have you,

and it's never left them. They hold onto it. So what they do is they take what Chris Fawala and others do, the Kirk curve stryts to the world and others, and they say, okay, based on what they're saying and what I'm seeing and what my sources might tell me and what information I may have gathered. This is what I deduce as opposed to just being irresponsible and just

spewing out something just because you want to. Every dude in the street thinks they can be you, and they don't have the insight, they don't have the background, they don't have the thoughtfulness, they don't even have a platform except when that they create. But they all think that they can be a pundit and they have no idea what goes into it. As I've always appreciated that you bring many different perspectives to it and a lot of

accumulated wisdom. The risk ticking man. He actually goes back as I understand that even before you were getting paid to be a print journalist, because at Winston Salem State where you played hoops for for Clarence Big House Games, he mentioned him. He's a he's a Hall of famer one more than games. He was a part of Winston Sailing for almost a half century and you, before you bust your kneecap, were on that team, and you wrote

an article advising him to retire. Now you gotta be the only active college athlete to ever go write an article telling a legendary coach he's playing for to retire. You understand that it's a it's a club of one probably that's done that and gotten away with it. Well, listen, um, I loved you. Know. I didn't have the greatest relationship with my father, and Clarence Big House Games was like a father to me. And I knew that he was

having health issues. And one time we were on the sidelines and he had a patch over his eye and he was very shaking, and I got very worried about him, and my teammates got very worried about him. So I was writing for the school newspaper and he and I talked all the time. And while we were talking, I said to him, this is what I noticed. What you're gonna do about it? And in his acerbic, you know, truculent kind of way, he was like, maya damn business,

you know. And you know, I said to him, you need to take care of this and basketball can't be the priority when your health is an issue. Man, you might need to walk away from this. And he said a nephew, man, Yeah, I'm saying I'm not doing anything like that. And I said, well, if you don't do it, I'm gonna write about it. Since you're so proud of you want everybody that you don't you want to give it, then you don't want to give it them, you want to just shove it aside. I'm gonna write about it.

And he said go ahead, And so I did it. And when I did it, uh, you had a bunch of people that obviously had a real big problem with me, including the chancellor of the university who wanted to be thrown off campus from what I was told, and Coach Gaines himself intervened and said, leave him alone. He wants to be a journalist. He told me exactly what he was doing. He told me why beforehand, and I gave him the okay to go ahead and do it. Leave

him alone. And that's what happened. A lot of people didn't know that coach Gains had given me the okay. They had no idea, But that's what happened. He was a giant man in a lot of ways. Of course knew him covering college basketball. But I find that that story fascinating and it has a good ending. He did retire a couple of years after that. But but uh, that's uh, that's ballsy, and it was it was it was I guess you you were throwing a lifeline by him.

You go to Philly, You're you're writing, you said, a beat reporter and a columnist, very very tough sports town. The readers are tough. Uh, it's just a it's the deep end of the pool. You had a setback though, right, You're you're a columnist, outspoken, you got political, and then they said, uh, get back in your lane. We're gonna make you a kind of a beat reporter, not a calumnist. Right, So had you had to take that and then rebuild it.

You know what happened was that I had gotten quite frankly with the ESPN two, and I was doing my radio show in New York. Prior to that, I had an agreement with Philadelphia just show back up once or twice a week and so write a column and other than that, we're good. And so what happened is is that once I was doing that in New York, a new regime came into the Philadelphia Inquirer. And obviously that

wasn't an agreement that they co signed. So they were trying to get me to essentially, um give up my posts. And I was like, no, without a Separence package, and they was and and and and this this is one individual. I never forget it, but I can't talk about it from a legal perspective. But he looked me in my

face and he said, you've made enough money. And when he said that to me, um, listen, I'm like, because you know, I'm a black man, and I'm a proud black man, and I don't think that everything is racist, and I don't think everything is racism. And there's plenty of black peaks people that I know that are wrong, and there's plenty of white folks that I know that have been right. But in this case he was wrong and he had nothing to do with the agreement that

was signed. And so when he said that to me, basically that you made enough money, he wouldn't talk about the Philoms inquired. He was talking about the money that I was making an ESPN, which is none of his business. And so for me, I was like, you know, in't start or something. I'm not backing up. I'm not going anywhere. So they tried all of those tactics ultimately and went

to arbitration, and I want the arbitration case. And I was returning to my stature as a columnist before I ultimately left the Philadelphia Inquirer to come back to ESPN. Little did he know the man who should remain nameless about it's money in you, hey, people act What you do is taking a risk when you criticize people that you know. I find a tricky to be friends with college football coaches or even tennis players or coaches, because

you can be friendly ish. But it was hard for me, not because I would be relucted to criticize them, but they wouldn't like it, and they would be caught off guard and surprised. You would you would come at them and happen many times. I mean, you you thread a line because you're both a pundit, the most accomplished pundit, but also an insider. And it's hard because insiders typically you know, Schefter, Woach guys are brilliant at that, but

they're not giving opinions, just working sources. You do both ends of it. It's it's does it feel like a tight up sometimes? Oh, it's definitely a tight rope, especially now. But I don't have to do what Adam Schefter and Adrian ward Garowski my Steam colleagues do. That's that's what they do every day. I don't have to do that anymore. I just choose to be an insider because you've got access to information. You've got access to information because you're

breaking bread with these figures. And then totally, if if, if, if, it's the thing to be said, you gotta say about them, and they know that. And so for me, I just have a car in the loud that I lived by Chris. Your personal life is your business, stay out of the police bloggers, and I got nothing to say. It's your personal life is your story to tell unless you let it get Unless something happens that you and the police bloggers.

That's public information and that changes everything or what you do on the court to field, to play, that's my domain. What I mean by that is that that's what you're putting out on display for the public to decipher and evaluate. That would happen to be me. And so if you go out on the court and you play like garbage, I'm gonna say you play like ge But you play up out and said, hey, James Harden, you played like garbage against the Brooklyn Nets, a near right of the club.

You're not afraid to sort of be the wiser uncle to say, hey, check yourself. You've you've done out of the past, you know, recreational where I want to use his rampant and pro sports. You've taken a strong stance against that. Yeah, absolutely, every understand something. I often use this phrase. We don't have we don't have things given dinner together, we don't exchange Christmas gifts. I mean, the fact of the matter is is that I have a

job to do and I'm gonna do it. I'm not trying to screw you over and I'm not trying to bury you. I'm not trying to do anything. But I'm chronicling what's transpiring and I'm disseminating that message to the masses, and I have an obligation to do that. Now, we can be friendly with one another so long as you understand that. If you don't understand that, then we don't have to be friendly at all. We certainly don't have to be enemies. But I'm going to do my job.

That is my job, and you know that coming. I mean, from day one, the first minute, we make sure we understand. I make sure folks understand this is what my job is, and this is exactly what I am going to do. And if you don't like it, you better get over it, because as you can see, there's a whole bunch of punk that's out there who have a responsibility to do that job. Some of them might do it better than me, most don't. When people heard you're gonna be on, it's oh,

I love Stephen A. He's crazy or he's crazy. I can't listen to him. I mean, you're gonna be polarizing. The people who have done what you do at a Hall of Fame level, by definition, are somewhat polarizing. One pole is smaller than the other you hope, but the crazy part, you're very thoughtful person, you don't. You don't shoot in then aime later, how do you how do you react when when you get that that crazy loud bombashador.

I totally understand where they're coming from, because it's a debated damn damn, it's friction all day long, right, and so you're going at it. So they're paying attention to my delivery and presentation, but they need to pay more attention to my content because in the midst of all of that bantering and and and you know, just that a brace them back and forth at times. Like you said, I am thoughtful, and I do know what I want

to say. For the most part, I'm not perfect, but I do know what I want to say, and I am trying to be responsible. And so they're paying attention to my presentation. And sometimes that hurts me because my presentation you serves my content, and I recognize that, but I also get scared because if I came on the air like this, Chris every morning at ten o'clock, Hey, welcome the first take you're doing. You know's how I feel.

That's not how you generate ratings. That's not how you generate interests in the product that you're asking people to take time out of this schedule to watch. You need to be as passionate and enthusiastic as as as anybody if you want people to watch you. If Chris Ballance calling UH Alabama and and L s U or something, you're not sitting up there mumbling. You're not. You're not. You're not talking like you're talking to the White Games.

But I get you. I get your point. You're expected to bring the energy that matches the occasion you're projecting. You're projecting, and that's what I'm talking about. That's what I bring to the table a lot of time. So I understand why people think I'm crazy because they're focused on that. But there's a you're I don't use this word lightly, man. You you're a genius communicator, and that you can start out at a one and you're almost more riveting when you're quiet, and then you bring it up.

I saw it today a conversation about Frank Vogo and the Lakers, and then you bring it up. Then you're you're at a six, Then you're in an eight, then you're in the nine, and and you're rolling and it's riveting too. Then you bring it back down quiet. So the sermon matters, but the way it's delivered. You know that anybody's been a church, it's the way it's delivered is equally important. Sometimes, I gotta tell you, man, it changed.

That was one of the things that I learned when I lost my job in two thousand and nine, because as I went back and I watched myself, it was screaming, a screaming, a screaming a and I gotta confess it was the one time in my life I got tired because I thought I had to be on one hundred all the time. And then I started looking at myself and I said, wait a minute. I'm just as effective when I love on my voice after I raised it.

I'm just as effective when I'm quiet and I'm making my facial expressions with the audience know as I'm talking to them without saying a word. And so I learned ultimately to bring all of those things together to basically fit my personality. My persona. I think about how I'm talking. You know, I talked to my mother one way, God rest her soul. I talked to my father another way. I talked to my four older sisters, but none of

them exactly the same. I talked to my older sister Linda differently in a way that I talked to my youngest sister, Carmen, who's four years older than me. And then I'm uncle Steve over here with fifteen niece as the nephews, and so all of a sudden, I'm talking to them in a totally different way than I talked

to my sisters. You're seeing all these people as you're doing your show, are you imagine as Yeah, and so it's like, you know, you're doing all of this right, and and you just and you just said, wait a minute, that's what I do in length. Why would I not bring that to the two I'm not speaking at a high volume certainly. When I talking to my mother, it was yes, man, yeah, but my I'm wanted, but Ma, no, that you know. And then my father, he and I

usually are. We were usually arguing as forts, so I'm debating him, whereas with my sisters, they were my big sister, so they slapped me upside my head if I talked to them in a certain way, but my nieces and nephews couldn't because I was uncle Steve, so all of these different things I just learned to bring to the table and said, no, I'm not a one trick pony. I got a multitude of dimensions to my presentation and my delivery. Bring it all to television. Let them see

who you truly, truly are, And that's what I do. Yeah. People tend to think that those who are animated or not authentic. You you bring a great deal of authenticity or nobody would uh would jump on the bandwagon as they have for for this many years. You've obviously talked a few times about your family. I want to ask about growing up the youngest of six with four older sisters. I didn't have You didn't have one older sister. I wish I had one. You had four. I don't know,

but one would have been lovely. Will Anderson is one of the faces of the sport at Alabama's gonna be um one of the top player should have been Heisman finals his past year. I've talked to him about being raised by four older sisters and how that shaped him, give him perspective, a softness in a way you don't usually hear a football player talk about it. How did it shape you Stephen To grew up there with four older sis and a strong mom. Well, you appreciate the

brilliance the courage of women. You recognize that no matter how difficult you think you may have it, they have it difficult too, and somehow, some way they persevere and they keep on pushing forward. And particularly when you're a man, black white has fandom matter. We all got a little mancho this in us where we you know, it's other way. We we we could handle it, We could do this, we could do that, and then when those times come and we want to give up. In most cases, you

might defer to another guy. In my case, I without hesitation, deferred to women because the women in my life we're extremely strong. No matter what obstacles came in their way. We have to adapt and we have to overcome. So I tell you a little story. Mark Shapiro, the former boss, our former boss of ESPN gives me the show quite frankly on ESPN two in two thousand and five. He wants me to do it. I'm petrified. I'm scared that I'm scared to death, like I ain't gonna host the television.

So what we're talking about, I mean, I can sit up there and get my opinion about something not covering I come of basketball, it's come of football. I can do that, but I can't hold. I don't know how to read a prompt. Us, don't know how to do this. I'm no Stewart Scott, I'm know John saw this. I'm no Chris Burman and he's I don't dare Patrick. I don't know this stuff. This is rage. I can't do this. And my sister Linda's it was like, oh, so we are punk. Now that's what we are. We were were

a punk. That's what we are. I mean, that's what we do. We're scared, we're scared of a challenge. What the hell is this? And literally ripped into me. She she called me names that I won't even repeat on this podcast. I mean, she was like, what the hell? This is not my brother? I don't know you scared? What? What do you embraced this? You take this challenge, This is your opportunity to show what you're made of. What

the hell are you doing? And this she reminded me of what my late brother had said to me, because he died in the cars in nineteen ninety two. In October of nineteen ninety two. That August of nineteen ninety two, two months before he passed away, while I had just graduated from Winston Salem and was coming into the journalism business. My brother looked me in my face and said, you're gonna be a star on sp one day you watch,

You're gonna do this. You're gonna be recognized one of the best who ever did it the next Howard Coastal stuff like that. He was saying this stuff. Obviously shared that with my family, and my sister at that time reminded me of what he said, and she said, he's rolling over in his grave right now because his little brothers and effant punk. And I called Mark Shapiro five minutes later. I said, I accept, because she had challenged me like you don't run. You embrace challenges, you don't

run from them. And I called him and I said, make the numbers right, and I accept. I'll do the show. But it was feeding off of that conversation with my sister Linda. That's powerful. Linda could be a great life coach, but it's more powerful when it's blood. That that's that's a great story, Steve, and I you know, I lost my mom. Um, it was very painful to watch her fade away. It was alzheimer as you become uh an

echo of yourself, your your shell of yourself. We never had that conversation that apparently you've talked about having with your mom, where she could say, listen, I've taught you a lot. Here's what I hope you've learned when you've listened to me. Here's how I hope you use it. Yeah, so you lose her, It's tough, it's devastating. The finality is always destroys your heart. But you had that. How often have you used that? Every day? Um? As you said,

you lost her mother, God bless her. My condolegens to you and your family. Um, but you know what I'm about to say. It never leaves you. You carry her with you wherever you go. She's there with you in spirit. You can recall times. It could be you sitting down having lunch of dinner, you just lounging around the house, hug getting on your getting you getting on your about something.

It could be anything. Every single day, something pops in my head about what my mother would say, what my mother would do, whether she chastised me, celebrate me, hug me, whatever, something everywhere that I go, and no matter what I'm doing, and it grounds me. What what it took me about two or three years to get over was the fact that it depressed me because no matter what I recalled or remember, it would always come back to she's not

here anymore. And one of the things that I've said to a couple of people is that I'm not married. I'm single. Um, when you're single, you never think about this, But the person who loves you most and loves you unconditionally, the woman who loves you most and unconditionally is usually your mom. If you've gotten married before your mother passes away, there's obviously somebody that's some degree she's passed that man too too, to love you forever, to be there for you, etcetera, etcetera.

But when you're single, that didn't happen. And so when she's gone, one of the first thoughts to enter your mind is the person who loved me most and unconditionally it's no longer here, and you feel very lost and

very very bloom and it's hard to overcome. And the only reason why, to some degree I've been able to overcome it is because many people, believe it or not, have reached out to me who have lost their mom and they've been devastated, and they come up to me, and I'd always tell them what my mother had said to me in the weeks before she passed. She said, why are you so sad? I appreciate the fact that is sad enough to miss me, and I love you for it. But this is the way it's supposed to be,

because would you rather it be the other way? If you love me, you wouldn't because then that means I'd be burying you, and that's not the way this is supposed to go. And so I've always told men, specifically who lost their mother, that story when they come up to me and they asked me about it, just to let them know, as much as painful as it is that she's gone, she wanted it that way. She would not have wanted to you to go before her. Remember

that and hold onto that. And that's what I try to do, just to tell folks that, yeah, that's beautiful. I think many would say the lessons don't stop even from the next world, right, they continue. I talked about risk taking. People are familiar with the risk you take an ESPN. I'm a big general hospital viewer. My wife Jennifer cooperates this podcast is a long, long time rabid general hospital view Right. You probably wouldn't like the term rabbit,

but you get it. So you you took a professional risk. You you play Brick, who I would say is a tough character, a fixer, surveillance expert, expert for the mall for Sunday Conto, one of the legendary figures played by Maurice Bernard. Now that is a risk, now, you know, because you're stepping out there. You're not you're not playing yourself.

You've done that on Placka and of the things. You get those offers to come play yourself when you're playing a character and you're working with iconic actors who are right, Maurice, these are some of the most Leger eight figures in the history of soap operas and you're doing scenes with them. Yeah, I mean that's that's the deep end of the pool. And you go in as a novice. At what point do you transition from mistake avoidance, not wanting to screw up,

to like pursue an excellence because you can. You got chops. If people listen to this have not seen you act. They need to check that out. I gotta tell you, man, I mean I appreciate you say, and that what I would tell you is that I didn't view it as a risk because it happened by accident. What happened is is that I had made a cameo appearance in two thousand and seven for like ten seconds, and then other than that it was done. But I've always been a

General Hospital fan. I've been watching the soap opera for now it's about forty six years, and been watching this since I was eight years old. Because when you came home from school, you were in the older TVs, a couple of TVs we had in the house. We're both our General hospitals. So if you want to watch TV, you had to watch General Hospital. If not, you had to go do your homework because those are the TVs.

Are stuff. That's what my sisters watching on TV. And so I grew I was watching it from the days of Frank Smith and a mob to the weather Machine and the Cassadines and all of this othering so crazy. And so I came there a few years ago because they saw first take and saw me saying how much of a big General hospital fan I was, and they had me do a scene the executive producer of the show, Frank Valentini, who's just a wonderful, wonderful guy, the brilliant

executive producer. They asked me to come on the show. I did the scene with Maurice Bernard, the star of the show, who plays the role of Sonny Carinthos, and I come on the show and I do a scene with him with him and the next thing I know, they just stopped taping and Frank Valentini runs downstairs and comes over to the set and he says, you were phenomenal, and Maurice Bernard was like, yes, you were. And Frank says, what we want to know is do you have time

to do this? I said, do what they said. We want to make this character a permanent character, for a recurring role on this show. And I said done, Yes, I said please, I say anytimes I got I said, I gotta schedule, I gotta onor my obligation to is in have to come first. But anytime I could be out here to do this, I will do it. It's not a problem because it's totally fun with me. And so from that point forward, Maurice Bernard has looked at me and he says, I know you don't believe it,

but you have it. He said, I've been around for a long time. He said, you have it. Whatever that it is, you just got it. And he said, I'm telling you, I've been in this business a long time and a lot of people can't do what you do. They get in front of that camera, those lights, cameras actually come on, and then nervous as hell, and I said, we don't think. I wasn't. I was gonna say, come on, you're telling me you just slid in there. And this

was feeling natural. First take these days from soap operacy, it is first take. You don't get a chance to rehearse. Sound like the old days. You gotta nail it. It's a team sport, it's collaborative. You screw up, everybody else is wasting their tap exactly. That's exactly the part that made me nervous. So my point is, I've never viewed myself as an actor because all I'm trying to do is memorize my life just so I don't screw it up for everybody else. You want to say, because if

you get it wrong. They have to do it over. People have to stay longer. It could be this everybody's life. You have to do your job. But Maurice Bernard deserves all the credit. Is actually two guys. I'm actually blessed and fortunate. Chris, I know the two biggest soap opera stars arguably in history. I'm very very good friends, great friends with Eric Braden, who plays Victor Newman on Young and the Wrestless. He's a huge first take fan. And

his son, Christian is a phenomenal director. He um, you know, he's done a couple of movies and what have you. And he, you know, he said to his father, this dude's the best sports analysts and television. You gotta meet him. And his father watched him, and his father watched me, and he tweeted me one day and I and I said, who the hell is Eric Braden? I had no idea. It was Victor Newman for Young in the Wrestlers. I knew it. I just never paid attention to what his

real name was. And so we made arrangements to see one another in l a we had at lunch, and we've been a separable sense every time. I'm in l A. We always have a lunch of dinner. I'm very close to him and he would give me tips. And then when I went on the set with Maurice Bernard, Maurice Bernard with got me, Okay, here's what I'm looking for with Deceeed, think about this, think about this, think about that, and he tell me and just guide me. And the

more he guided me, the better I look. So I'm like, it's really them, It's it's especially Maurice Bernard just teaching me on the spot on the set. This is what I need from this, says you got it? If he's sit that's high prayers. What are you gonna do with it? Is there more acting? Oh? I'd love it to be. I mean, I don't pursue it per se, but when people ask me, I definitely will consider it. That's what

that That's how Blackish came about. When I was on Blackish, you know, because I'm friends with Anthony Anderson, but he's not the one who called um, you know Ken you Burrows and those guys do a great job and they asked me come on the show, and I was happy to come on and do a scene with with Anthony Anderson, who I think is it's just a phenomenal actor. Um. But the thing that I love but she's very funny.

But you were playing yourself, and you you're playing maybe at slightly heightened version of yourself, and and you one round one big and then then you didn't win the end. But but that a little girl about yourself, so that youughter got me. But I think what I love about it is that when you're acting, you can play any role that the road dick. You can play any character that the road dictates for you, and so you can be something else. And the fact that you can be

something else is a huge, huge deal. And not only that, it comes in handy because when you're on live television doing first take every day, sometimes you gotta put on your acting chop in terms of your mood. Might come in, a little tired mike coming, a little sluggish might come in because you know, family or friends or somebody annoyed you. But the audience don't want to hear that the lights are on, it's time, it's showtime, and they want what

they want from you. And so knowing that that's what you've got to bring to the scene acting wise, that also helped me doing first take as well. Where do you get the stamina mentally, physically do you get the voices the instrument? You gotta take care of the voice because you're using it, You're you're you're testing and challenging it every day. I mean, look, you had you woke up. People don't know this except maybe a lot of your hardcore um IF viewers, but you rang in in the hospital.

You had you had a fully vaccinated right, but you had a bad bout of COVID pneumonia both lungs as you've described it, and it was dicey, and you did along. You took a long time off. You had to kind of come back and maybe with a different perspective, rebuild your stamina. Yeah, I'm passionate about I love my job, so that helps. UM. I know how to pace myself to some degree. That helps. But COVID was a different animal. UM. I'm not in the greatest shape in the world, but

I ain't in bad shape. UM. My exercise a few days a week. UM. And to be in a situation where I was just laboring with my breathing, uh, to have pneumonia in both lungs, to get progressively words to go through the hallucinations and all of this other stuff, delusions and everything was crazy. Um. But I think the scariest moment was um New Year's Eve, because I visited the hospital twice for New Year's Eve. Around ten thirty

that night before the ball dropped. An hour and a half before the ball dropped, I was feeling really, really really bad, and the nurse came in there and they looked at my X rays and stuff like that and took X rays of my chest and what have you. They did all of that, and they turned around and they said, what's your family's number? We need to call him. They said, we're gonna try something, but this is pretty bad.

And I think what ultimately ended up happening was that several weeks earlier, I had an endoscopy perform because my vote was my throat was a little bit raspy and my stomach was hurting, and they found out that I had and inflamed esophagus and a bacterial infection. So the combination of the two put me in a bad spot.

COVID piggyback off that and so if you're already having problems with your esophagus and then COVID comes in, it swarms you, and so that's where the ultimately the pneumonia came into play, and everything and nothing seemed to be working. And it turned out that they put me on steroids and an antibiotic and took me off the antibiotic that I was on for the endoscopy, and that ultimately made me better in a matter of hours and ultimately got

me through COVID. But it was a real, real big Tom scared that particular moment of time because my doctors, they continue to tell me, had I not been vaccinated, I wouldn't be here. They told me I would have been gone. Yeah, holy ship, I mean that that's not supposed to happen a fully vaccinated person, this late in the COVID game, and you're they're telling you maybe you better call your family. Yeah wow, I mean I know that you you had plenty of acquired wisdom and resilience.

But you come back after that. And what we do on one level is pretty silly stuff. We get we get to talk about athletes and games and sports and stuff like that, and people are out there doing real world jobs, including people that are taking care of you in the hospital. What what did that do when I did? You see you're fired up to get back on TV. But when you come back and the lake goes on and its first take time, how are you a changed person? Stephen A? From that the first business I thought, I

was reminded of the inherent responsibility that I have. Of course, I was appreciative of my family and my loved ones, so there was an elevated level of appreciation that went on from there. But then to go back on the air after a month off with so many people looking for me, wondering what was going on? Where am I? Colleagues all over the place, friends, everybody, because they've never seen me take off that amount of time in my career.

I took off more between mid December and mid uh January sick watse for sick days more than I'm taken off in my entire twenty eight year career combined. I mean I used like thirty six days for crying a lot. I was really bad, and so to come back and to see just the world and flux as it be as it pertained to COVID, I felt an inherent responsibility just to let everybody know what happened to me. Make your own decisions. You got your own doctors, your medical experts,

you know what your health situation is. I'm not going to get into all of you should be vaccinated or whatever, even though I think you should. That's your business. But I was basically, I basically felt an obligation of bringing to perspective this virus is real. COVID nineteen is real. And when you're walking around without a mask, when you're walking around being completely oblivious or disinterested or apathetic towards how the next first you could be harmed, that's where

it's Unamerican. That's where we're not our best selves, you know. And I wanted to send that message because my sister smokes every day. I hate it. She's a smoker. She got COVID from me and she was fine in three days. I don't smoke. I'm a casual drinker, I exercise all the time, and I almost died. And so for me, it was like, it can happen to anybody, and you don't know why, So let's be considerate enough to think about our fellow woman, and man, it leads to the

point where we're not jeopardizing somebody else. And that was a message that I felt obligated to come back and bring because they say, I'm the face of ESPN. It is the worldwide leader. We have tremendous reach and with that position comes responsibility, and to me, that needed to take precedent over anything else. And that's why I came back the way that I came back. My first focus was to deliver that message and to let everybody know, Yeah, I recovered, but I went through hell in order to

get here. Let's think about that for a second. That's what I tried to do. Yeah, you had another way that you powerfully use the platform, well said, Well, your viewers are glad that you're back. Ready to work? Is you need to roar with full energy with when Chris Matt Russell comes on every Wednesday, the first take has become become appointment TV. Not that the show isn't every day, but when when he comes in and tries to match your energy, tries to match you that that I've known

him forever, I mean that is that is Uh? Does that feel like, hey, these are the minutes of the week when I really got to put the gloves on and go at it or is it just you know for me personally? Um year from the standpoint that he is mad or Russ. So the man doesn't have his own show. He's that is on the channel, you know, I mean, he's got he's got, he's got damn near cult following for crying out loud. We get all of that.

But you know, I'm old in the sense. You know, one of the greatest compliments I've ever received when I first came back to ESPN two thousand and eleven, everybody was shaking my hand, good to see you, blah blah, blah, blah blah, and then Boomer Chris Burman shook my hand and he said, welcome home. He never should have left. And that meant the world to me, coming from somebody

like him. And I bring all of that up to say, you know, I might be younger than some folks, same age and some folks or whatever, but I'm old school at heart. I know who paved away from me. You know, I remember all of y'all. I remember listen, I remember

Howard Costell back in the day. I remember Jimmy the Greek, I remember Earth Cross, Brent Musburger on the New Side, Ted Copple, you know, Peter Jennings, you know Dan Rather Tom Broke, call I remember, you know, the John Saunders of the world, to Dan Patricks, to keep the Oberman's of the world, the rich eyes is of the world. You know, you and Kirk Curves should have been doing

a great job on these lead corpse. So you know, all of these guys rich eyes, and listen, what what ESPN is, what this industry is is because of the people who preceded me. And so when everybody comes along now and it's about the younger generation and it's about the younger demographic, I get that that's the audience, but I refuse to allow anybody to ever think that I am somebody that, in catering to that younger audience is gonna forget the people that put me in a position

to cater to them. So I feel an inherent responsibility of somebody who's seen as having some kind of gravitational pull with that younger audience to sort of pull that audience over to me in a way that reminds them of the people who preceded me. That's a big, big deal to me. Don't forget the people who paved the way.

Know some semblance of your history, and that's what I try to do, and when I look at mad Dog Russo, he was doing it in the eighties, he and Mike for Incessor Mike and the Mad Dog started sports talk radio. And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm not forgetting that. I want the world to know who he is. I want them to see what he brings to the table. I want them to know and understand his value. And I love the fact that he looks differently than I do, and think differently than I do, and come from a

different cultural background than I do. Because I want the audience to know I'm not here just to tell you how I feel. I want you to have it all and to make your decision based on how we debate one another. I think that's the fair and right thing to do, and I'm very very big on that. Yeah, we grew up watching and admiring a lot of the same icons beginning you mentioned Cosell, Jim McKay, many others.

It's it's really thrilling when you actually get to bridge and work with some of those people later in their careers, earlier in your careers. That's been a thrill for me. I'll leave you with this question because we talked about challenges and risks. I think improvement and growth and not just expected, they're essential to us. So what's what's when you look forward and knowing that in this business, sometimes it doesn't end well, even for the legends, it's I

don't know what it is. Sometimes it doesn't end well. What's what's next for you? What are the areas where you say I could continue to grow and improve and do something better or do something different. Well, I don't rule out the possibility that this next this last contract, and I've got over three years remaining on it could be my last on first take. UM, that remains to be seen. I thoroughly enjoy doing it, but I'm anxious to do other things. I started my own production company,

Mr Essays Productions. I want to show my producing chops to produce content sitcom, scripted and unscripted, doctuseries, drama series, those kind of things, even film. Eventually, UM, I want to start my own podcast company. I have an aspiration to do that. UM. I'm still gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna elevate my acting chops to some degree. I'm gonna do more or that. UM definitely so UM and my ultimate aspirational as well on camera is to do late

night television. When I think about Stephen Gobert, I think about Jimmy Fallon, I think about the great Jimmy Kimmel. Um. I come back to the days of UH, you know, Johnny Carson, David Letterman, Jay Leno, are Cineo hall Um. I saw all of this stuff, and you know, they basically celebrate the great, great things that people are doing.

I've been debating and then being combat up for years, but I want to step back and have a good time and show that I know how to have a good time and I can help others shine as well and celebrate the great things that they do. So, you know, again answer that question. Being a producer and with my production company behind the scenes, doing late night television in front of the camera, those are my primary two obligations. And how soon that will happen remains to be seen,

but I would prefer much sooner then later. Well, I can't wait to see all the things that unfold next. Look forward to reading the memoir you mentioned UH in about a year's time. Stephen A. Smith. You always bring it, man, and thank you for bringing it here. I'm grateful for you and continued success. I appreciate you, Chris Man, thanksful the great work that you do on it, and proud to call you a colleague. Man. Thank you so much

for having me. I really appreciate Stephen his time in a very busy schedule and for saying yes immediately to this request. I really enjoyed getting to know him a little bit. I hope you enjoyed seeing different sides to the man, things that contribute to making him the great broadcaster that he is. As always, grateful to my co executive producer on the podcast, Jennifer Dempster and A. Jason

Whitehill for his editing skills. Please subscribe to the podcast, review it, leave feedback on my Instagram at Chris Fowler or at Chris Fowler dot com. I'll talk to you soon. M