SEASON 2 HIGHLIGHTS

Mike Terriko, Mike Mills, Brian Coppelman, Bob Woodruff. We had fun throughout. It was a challenge to listen to all these episodes and pick out just these highlights, but I think you're gonna enjoy it. Any one of those books could have been in lead up position, but we went with Mr McConaughey and the Art of Living. His stories and wisdom and revelations and prescriptions and confessions and adventures

are truly unique. He talked about a solo trip down the Amazon when he was at a crossroads in his life and had a very profound experience alone in the jungle. It was about day twelve actually, and no that was that was there's nothing outside of my body of anything. It was a purge of getting everything out and there was no There was no ayahuasca, no peyote involved in it. It was me and me. UM twelve days into a trip that was a solo journey of my own, and a trip that the first twelve days I was not

enjoying my company. I was not able to be present. I didn't like where my mind was going. I was feeling guilt, I was feeling shame. I was feeling like sins of action, sins of the mind. I didn't know where I was going in life or or what my track was. UM my mind was in a low place, and again in I felt like that was okay. Endure this, endure this, and I put myself into place so far out that I didn't have like the Australian tip. I didn't have the parachute to pool. I was out there.

I was like, No, you're gonna you're You're gonna sweat this out and you're gonna go through this in a bad day twelve And this has happened to me multiple times. A bat day twelve, I wake up and I have a purge. I've I've I've thrown up, I've gotten rid of every talisman that I've that defined me. I wake up and I go for this walk, and I'm feeling present for the first time, and all of a sudden, I'm seeing the light and I'm forgiving myself for certain

things I should forgive myself. I've I've shaken hands with myself about things. Hey, buck stops here on that. We're not gonna keep doing that one. We're changing, We're gonna evolve as a as a young man. And I came across that story, that that that whole huge blue neon blue floor on the jungle floor, which when it moved turned out to be ten two thousands of butterflies. And

that's when I first found the Amazon. That's why I went for that swim in the Amazon, to go put myself in the place that I that was actually in that eleven second dream I had, which I had now had for the second time, which is what got me to peru Um and the rest of that trip. The next say, they're twenty two days. The next ten days were glorious. I was present, I was being fair with myself, I had forgiven myself. I was seeing the beauty all

around me. Everything I wanted was what I could see, and what could I could see was right in front of me. It was simple. I was present. People call it zen whatever I had found that learned some lessons there about we gotta put ourselves in a position to hear the truth cross us. It's hard with all the stimuli and frequency all around us all the time. When can you When can you have you give yourself a little forced winter of quiet solitude where you may not

like the company. And that's good because hanging there until you do like the company, because there's only one s O. B. We can't get rid of us there the only person we can't we you know, there's only one person that we're like, well, I'm stuck with you no matter what. And so that's what that that's to happen on that trip. And then it happened again three years later when I

had the exact same dream again and went off to Africa. Yes, it's also in the episode of the story about Matthew's trip to Molly and the wrestling match against the Village Champion, And I thought about what Matthew says is the moral of that story a lot since we recorded the episode, and he says that if you rise to meet a significant challenge, you've already won. The outcome doesn't matter. Rising to meet the challenge is a victory in and of itself.

I like that a lot. We also talked about his film career and a lesson that Matthew had to learn the hard way early on. There's a great story in there about how I embarrassed myself from lack of preparation um and did not prepare for a scene on purpose, thinking my bright idea was that I am nothing but an extincial, instinctial actor. I don't need to study the lines. My career started days confused, and I just improv to

all that ship. Man, here, let's do it again, and not when you got a four page monologue in Spanish put in front of you that you didn't know it was gonna be there. Oh jees o, man, I remember the beat of sweat going on the back of my neck, going, oh my, you said you took a twelve minute walk and prep Did you really come back and know that ship in twelve minutes in Spanish? Hell? No, I mean

twelve I remember, I see twelve minutes? Can I get twelve minutes my mind thinking, oh, that's enough time not to be inconsiderate to the crew who's ready to go. But maybe it's also enough time to learn a four page monologue in Spanish, because hey, I took Spanish first semester in the eleventh grade. Well look it was not true. No. I came back and I don't know what kind of hacked up spanglish crap I did, but I did something and it embarrassed the hell out of me, and I said,

I never want to feel that again. And from that day on I learned that value of preparation. And now I tried to come in you know, even a preparation. If I get come like I got it. I got it, I got it. I'm like, when maybe you need to look at an even more different way because I don't want to I want to go into I don't know about you, but I want to go to the set every day having the right kind of butterflies going all right, man, I'm m I'm catching my breath here. This is good.

I don't want to feel like, dude, whatever, I got it. We know each other basically through Texas football. Um first met at a at a Longhorn game game day was there. There's one memorable game where Texas beach Nebraska. It's the Top five showdown. It's a it's a massive party in Austin. We got done with our work. We were invited to join you at a saloon if you're choosing, in downtown Austin to begin the postgame celebration, which we did. But then they said, you don't have to go home, but

you gotta get out of here. You you graciously invited us to continue the party along with others at your house. We saw a yellow light and which the yellow light was responsibility and an early flight. And I don't know, I'm not a man of regrets, but damn I mean, and we had seen a green light there. That was the infamous beginning of the thirty two and a half hour bender that ended with the story that all of

America knows. Man. Yes. So it wasn't that night that I decided to get neck and play congas in my birthday suit. It even wasn't the next night. It was two thirty six am the Monday morning, and I had not gone down yet. I was still celebrating our great victory when I decided to make some music with myself and wine donned down. Figured it was time to lay it on down and get some sleep. But before so, let me have a good jam session. Well, I had left a window open. Neighbor heard it, called the cops.

They came in. I resisted pretty heavily, and yes, that was uh. I mean I we would definitely, definitely not hung around till the next night, the next night, the next morning. But I mean I was, like part of me wanted to say, damn, I was there at the be at least at the beginning. That was a fun seventy four minutes with Matthew, lots of stories and of course the Naked Congo's story. When I did not see one of life's green lights to quote matthews book title, uh,

and chose to exercise prudence. And you can tell I regret it a little bit now, my colleague of twenty five college football seasons. If you can believe that Kirk herb Street was also there in the early stages of McConaughey's Naked Congo's Night also peeled away, of course, but Kirk and the Bear Chris Felika got together for episode one of the season to relive stories from four hundred

fall saturdays together. It's incredible, including Kirk's first year on game day and what should have been a celebratory return to Ohio State but almost never happened. The only memory I have is waking up Saturday morning, fourth week of my career, and being terrified that I'd been out way too late and you made me have way too many drinks and I I couldn't really, I was just like, I don't even want to go. I'm good. I was

not gonna go. Alice rescued you man. One of the great careers in sports broadcasting almost got like cut short in a week four of year one. Listen to this, I somehow bang I make it into the r O t C Building next to next to St. John's arena. You guys have no idea what's going on? My sunglasses

on some idea. I had some idea, But you're going, you know, you and Becker are arguing about something, and I'm my stomach is like not feeling good, and I'm trying to like keep it together, trying not to get fired just because of the way I am in the meeting.

So I'm just holding on for dear life going through this little production meeting before our show starts on Saturday, and in the middle know of it, ran down the hallway and just got sick, really bad for a long time, and I was pale white, like I was banged up. I had Bama Dave bring me. He brought me a Bama. Dave was one of the guys on our crew. A

game day, he was worried about me. He brought this trash can for me, and he put it just to the left of my seat during the show, so if I have to vomit during the show, at least I had a trash can to turn my head over to and and throw up during the show. Thank god, the show was an hour back then. Thank total pro, total pro. Remember the first time we swung the camera around and like the Bears now an icon. But but he was a valuable part of the team, but not in front

of the camera. Was it your idea? What we all of a sudden we're sitting over there and we're like, there's a lull or something. It was his calves. I wanted to shoot the calves, like wait that that that was the whole impetus for you. Let's let's show his calves, not his calves are like that big and he had shorts on, and I, you know, that's when we used to just a lot of times with fitting in the chair, we get off the rails, and he loved it. He

encouraged it. So I hit talk back and I was like, you gotta you gotta get the camera on bears calves. I'm gonna say something. He goes, oh, that's great, that's great, bring the camera over to his calves, and I just started talking about bears calves and I'm just like, look at this. No, I forgot about the calves part. Bear, I knew, I knew you. I thought we were gonna talk some football, but then think about from one calf

cutaway comes the empire. That is the exactly it's really the former offensive lineman at me now, Kirk Bear and I also spoke plenty about our dear friend Mike colleague in college game day for twenty five years. The Corsow coming up there is the blooper for the Ages and Houston, but also the story of how Lee recovered from a stroke somehow after being robbed of the ability to speak in spring of two thousand nine, after arduous work in three and a half months he was ready for the

season debut of Game Day that fall. It's a really powerful moment and we we we all have such you know, deep love and affection for him and respect for him, learned so much from him. When he had the stroke. I thought that was one of the most courageous things

that anybody's done. A guy who spoke so effortlessly he was, it was so natural, and he was such a great ad lib and to be robbed at that And the first show back after his stroke, and this wasn't that many months, and he had gone to speech therapy that he says is the hardest thing he's ever had to do to relearn how to speak. And we weren't sure if the gears were gonna mesh when the light went on.

And this season debut of the show is in Atlanta, and we're outside and there's a big crowd around, and I think all of us were so anxious and holding our breath, and how is this gonna go for him? Is he going to be uncomfortable? Is he going to be able to get the words out? And And that was I think a two hour show at that point, and the fact that he was able to get through that and it got better and better from from that

point on. That year. Uh god, I just remember the tension Kirk, you know, just loving this guy so much and just hoping things are gonna go okay. Yeah, totally. I can remember like it was yesterday, I mean really to me, when he had his stroke and he was determined. Nobody was like, are you sure you're okay? And he wasn't letting anybody stop him from getting back to that show.

And his motivation was his love for that job, his love for that show, his love for the sport and what he had become, you know, within the sport, and he was not going to be slowed down. People asked the time, I'll tell the story about else and Houston and the f bomb. At this point, it's well established he's gonna put the headgear and picked the team. And at this point, Kirk he had already was he had

already perfected the fake left go right things. So he was gonna build up one team and then picked the other team. SMU has got no chance in this. I mean, there's no way they're gonna win in Houston. That Cougar has had a great team. They're scoring fifty points. A game, uh, and and they're working to stop him. But he tried to build up SMU and he was looking look at that red, white and blue. Look at that sm You look at what a team? What? And he was trying

to kind of take the audience in one direction. The director wasn't getting it, and he was a great director, but he wasn't cutting all the things that Lee was talking. He wasn't building up SMU. So there was that, and that's what kind of frustrated him and he finally figured enough of this ruse and that's when he just said, fuck it, give me that Houston and he put on the Houston hat. And Carl Lewis was the guest picker. They're kind of falling over and um, I put my

head down. You shoved your chair away. You you you instinctively you had to distance yourself. I didn't even know what I I think I threw a pen in the air. I remember Carl Lewis going. He leaned over in the midst of that chaos, and he goes to me. He's like he looked at me. He's like a good thing. We're on delay. And I was like, yeah, you look,

you looked at the mascot. You look, you looked, you opened the cougar's mouth and like looked in there, and it was very I mean all of us that you know, something like that is like possible on live television, but they had never happened before, so I was kind of the funnier ac. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's the best part of it. When we were we had about a seven hour flight to Eugene for USC Oregon that night. That that's the best part of the story, where we get

to Eugene. Kirk, Yeah, we we land in Eugene. Well, first of all, ESPN makes him, uh, issue an apology? How did that? He? Fitting comes out? Everyone's hi. You know, at the end of the game day, we're always like, good show, that was fun, that was fine, good job, And then Fitting comes out. He's like, coach, good job, that was great. Listen real quick, hey, he kind of said, He goes, what what what? What? What you you said the f fort he goes, so what he well, I

can't really say that on TV. So we've written out this three sentences just saying your apology and let's look into the camera. Goes okay, no problem. He looks into the camera. He's like earlier today on college game day, I said something I shouldn't have for that reason, I'm very very sorry doing like we're doing a coke commercial like he does, like his home home depot, you know, and we're all, he's just so innocent with this. We're like, coach,

I was great, that was great. Good good On the back end this time, how about we just don't smile. How about we just kind of look, you know, just looking at the camera. He's like, okay, good good. So he does that, or we get through that. By now all of America's you know, googling Lee Corso, F bomb and all this. And we fly. We fly all the way out to Eugene. We land. As soon as our land, the U S see a good U s c. P.

Carroll team against Oregon and Chip Kelly. We get out of the plane, go into the FBO stop in use a quick bathroom, and as we're coming out, this guy, he looks like he's driving like a driver, says, hey, um, you do you mind if Phil Knights says hello real quick, he's he's on his way over. He just landed. He's on his way because we saw his plane when we landed. But we didn't realize he was there. So, yeah, he wants to say hello real quick. Yeah, because we met

him a few times on game day, no problem. So as we're walking out to get to our car, Phil Knight's big r V. He comes jogging down the stairs. You can see him, comes jogging over to us, and he's like, he high fives me, and he's like, manly Corso, I can't believe that. S ob he's my hero. I can't, man, what was what happened? Tell me? I mean he want to sit there and hear all about it. He was

so like fired up, you know. And then I'm like, man, you know, everyone's like because before we got to there, everyone's like he might be is he gonna get suspended? You know, would they fire him all? You know, that's the all the talk. Then we then we drive the stadium. We get in there, Lane kill it was Lane Kiffin. Actually he was over. He says something to me about man. Of course, so I can't believe it. And then Chip

Kelly literally is at the other into the stadium. He's the's me at the other twenty walking towards the fifty. I'm talking white visor, all black outfit, full sprint over to me and Darren to like, high five us and tackle us, and he wants to hear about it. I'm just like Lee course is the only guy that can see the F bomb and his his Q rating goes up. Kirk and the Baron I could have sat around for three or four hours and told stories. There's so much

in the episode. If you've enjoyed college game day at all over the years, I think you'll enjoy going along for the ride. Also should tell you that Kirk has a new book coming out out the Pocket, very good, very powerful read. Now. Almost as important to me throughout my life as the power of sports has been the power of music. I love this topic and I love visiting with a musical legend and dear friend, Cheryl Crowe.

We talked a lot about her life in her career, but also about the power of music to connect us, unite us, inspire us, heal us, and transport us back to a very specific time and place. Well, my kids say I was born in the Jurassic period, and that's probably is true. You know, It's funny. I think about that, and I think, are my kid's going to have that same relationship when they hear like a post alone song song where they can actually, you know, completely envisioned where

where they were when they heard it. For me, like I can hear Baker Street by Jerry Rafferty, and I can smell Mike Brown's bucket seats in his Monte Carlo, you know, and I can envision sitting at the Dairy Queen hot August night. Um, I can hear I Want to Be Your Lover by Prince and thinking I was listening to like porn um at a track meet in uh, you know, when I was a freshman in high school. You know, I want to Be Your Lover? Was? I

mean that was risque. I mean it's nothing like whop you know, which I'm trying to like keep my kids from seeing or hearing. And Yeah, music, I I think about it um a lot when I think about Carlos Santana in a hotel lobby once saying, you know, I watched your show girl. You really know how to are

you really change the molecules in the room. And I've always thought about that because I do think that music is a physical experience where you know, all the science and all the studies they've done around meditation and around music and how it changes the shape of the cell um and how it can create a physical, uh, really

a physical reaction. And I do leave that. I want to go to the Michael Jackson because it's amazing that that was your that was your first record, and then you began to sort of experience the power of music on this incredibly large scale when you're singing back up on that tour and and and singing. Um, I just can't stop loving you a duet or now the focus is on you and Michael and you seventy thou faces are right there singing, and there's a girl from Kenneth,

Missouri kind of experiencing this. I think it's you're probably your first time abroad, right and now who you are in front of what do they feel like? I did get a passport. I mean I've never been out of the country. In fact, I had really I was a school teacher before that, and I basically was like, Okay, I'm gonna go to l A. I'm gonna go to New York, LA. Seems nice and I'm gonna go there.

And um, I crashed the audition long story short, um, and I went up getting it and you know, That's an interesting thing too, because I feel like what I witnessed with Michael um and the power of music was so much bigger um And also having watched him since he was younger than me and he was five and six years old, when you would see him see him on UM you know, uh TV variety shows singing these like Frank Sinatra songs, you know, and singing ben and then doing this incredible R and B that we all

grew up with. And then I went up singing with him, and to watch how people would just lose their ship. I mean, it was like they were witnessing a deity, you know. And there's something I guess that's a whole other show, but that's it's it's so weird to see. It was a little bit like watching what was going on with the Beatles, you know, all that old footage

of people passing out and girls crying. And but the thing that was interesting to me was standing behind him and seeing he could just see in him that fragile little guy who was so damaged. But then when he would step into something bigger than him, you just could feel like, Okay, there's a difference between ego and the divinity. And the art part of it certainly. I mean, if you believe in God or something bigger, that's where that

comes in. And that's where all those people, strangers are just wrapped up in the molecular thing that Carlos Santana talks about, you know, and um, and they come away from that feeling changed. And that that for me was an incredible thing to witness. I mean, I'll never know what that's like to have my whole life be based on on that, being a small child and being so famous, um, but watching that was was powerful for me as seeing what what music can be and and and and how

it can wield a lot of emotion and power and strength. Yeah, I mean powerful, intoxicating and firing a cautionary tale, I'm sure as well. It's kind of the whole package. So when you are now playing your own songs and you are in the spotlight and their faces are looking at you and singing back words that you wrote on a base in some lonely time and place years ago, and it's different generations that are doing it. I mean for those of us that we'll never know what that's like.

You're doing a job up there. You've got to play the song. But do you ever just allow yourself to take all that in Chris, It's interesting watching all those men out there crying and fainting, yes, throwing underwear on the stage. Um. Yeah, I know it's different when you're a girl rock star. You don't get the perks that the guys get. Um, but yeah, I mean there was a time early out, early on, when I really was feeling pretty burnt out that I couldn't see the audience

as being a sort of benevolent being. You know. I always felt like the critics were after me, and uh, and then I wound up being diagnosed with breast cancer and it totally reset everything I wanted to. I wanted

to I wanted the lights on all the time. I wanted to make contact with people and their faces and their eyes and their stories and um, you know, there there is a really odd thing that happens when when you have a hit song and you travel to other countries where they don't even speak your language language like Japan or whatever, and you see them doing their best to sing along they know the words in a totally different language, and just how it's not like anything you

can ever measure as a kid as to what you perceive success would be like, you know, Like to me, I did pour over rumors and I did get my hair cut in a total shag, and I was like intrigued with Stephen Knicks maybe being a witch, and you know, I've got the shawls, and I wanted to be that, you know, and that was to me. It wasn't I didn't envision like the audience. I always envisioned me as her.

It's a different thing when you're on stage and there are nights where you feel overwhelmed with the energy that's coming back at you, and then there are other nights where you feel like this is a job and am I in this? And I don't want to short change anybody, you know. Um. I think after breast cancer and kind of rebooting my life and who I was and who I saw myself as, I could really feel the enjoyment of going out and sharing as opposed to having to deliver.

It's not every day you're not talking about that kind of thing with such candor. And I really appreciated the time to Cheryl gave us. It was just pure enjoyment to record that episode. By the way, Sheryl has a new recording out live at the Ryman, the legendary Auditorium in Nashville, So check that out next up. Whatever I most listened to episodes Reinvention, that's because of the two tremendous guests, football legend Eddie George and TV host style

icon Clinton Kelly. They have very different backgrounds, but each of them shared some very smart ideas on reinventing yourself pivoting in life, something that so many of us are facing these days, being forced to ask tough questions like is this still what I want? Or even bigger question, who am I? That's what Eddie wondered the moment he realized his great career was over when he was kicked out of a Dallas Cowboys practiced by Bill Parcels as

a member of the scout team. Oh well, it felt, um like I was in the twilight zone a little bit, because what I've known for so long, how prepared for each season, how I got my mind right for my training in the different phases of getting ready for NFL season or football season. I've been doing it my entire life up to that point, and I was already won. And um, when I once I realized that that my playing days were done. It was it was a gut riching feeling. I mean, I saved my money. I had

a roof up from my head. I wasn't fearful in that regard of of being financially broke, but it was like, well, damn, you know what's next? Or really you know who am I? Well, it turns out the former football star is also a pretty talented actor. He got the bug attending some Shakespearean plays, and after some embarrassing experiences trying to adjust to a new career, he got good reviews playing some very serious parts, and then a lightning bolt moment when he caught a

live performance of the musical Chicago. So I go, I'm an audience, and I've went with the songs like okay, this is kind of fun. And then it was time for Billy Flinner come, you know, and the girls come out and since we what dly give us deally that's the great opening, right And he hits the stage, comes out, does it still does a song I care about? His love does the scenes. And I was like, oh man, that that said that, Now that looks like fun, you know, I said, Now that's one day I'm gonna do that.

So she hears me. She's like interesting, she says, well, can you sing? Well I took singing lessons before, so yeah, I can say. I'll figure it out this well, I'm gonna call the White Slers in New York and get you an audition. I said, okay, you do that at LO and behole. Two weeks later, she calls me back. She's Eddie, I got you an audition for to play the World with Billy Finley or for the Bielers. I'm like, really, when is it's just in two weeks. I'm like, oh, ship,

I had to study. I hadn't worked on my voice and them over maybe five or six months. So I'm Tannis, but I gotta take this opportunity. So I worked on the songs. I get with my acting coach. We listen to the music. I'm doing everything I can. I go up there in November of two thousand and fourteen. I get my best suit, Chris, I get my my my top hat, got my suit on. I go in. There

is Billy Flynn. I going to the Ambassador Theater. I walk out on an empty stage and an empty theater, the lights on me and total darkness and I'm like, holy shit, I am really intimidated. I'm thinking of all the great actors that were on this stage, like I, I don't belong here, you know, like us shere was on the stage, and you know, just going down the list of who played this role, and it's intimidating to me.

And I'm and I have to sing, and I'm like, all right, just whatever you do, it is gonna be a great story with our getting or not. So the piano player comes out. He's very professional. He's warming up, you know, doing his thing, and I'm thinking, should I be doing the same things here? So I just sit back a week till he stunts. Is all right, Mr George, we're gonna start the top. All I care about his love? What key are you in? And I said, uh, I

don't know. He say, picking pick one. We'll figure it out. So we figure out, like he we wore them up. And I just have a good time, cracktic notes everywhere. I'm just laying it all out there and just doing what I have to do. And unbeknownst to me, Barry Weiss, the Leite producer, was in the audience. He was like way in the back and we're done. About thirty minutes we go through the whole thing. He comes down cent Arouse like this, Oh my god, that was magnificent. Let's

do it. I'm like, really, really, you want to be on Broadway? And that's how I got the Broadway. Every night it must have been close to the feeling of being in the tunnel running out in the field when when you're in the wing, so that the tunnel and the wing of the theater had to be a little bit familiar to you. Just before that that live juice is going. Not without a doubt, Opening Night was was magical because I'm underneath the stage and it's like literally

be a shot out of the cannon. The energy just waiting, and it's like, oh my god. And that's where the fear really comes in because you're like, oh my god, Okay, I just prayed to God one that I'm making up the stairs clean. Two, I don't forget my fucking words rehearsals. One thing, the line deal is completely tip. You're just thinking everything will kick it downstairs clean and now let it go. You know. It's it's compared that to the

Super Bowl. Compare Opening Night on Broadway to that feeling because the super Bowl has brought accomplished, brilliant hall of famers, made them shaking their boots. What was it like? How

would you make the comparison? Very very similar? Uh, you know, the energy, the nerves, because that's that's the that's the granddaddy of them all, the super Bowl and and UM, and going into that knowing that all eyes are on all the celebrities, UM, every everybody around the world is watching this one game and you have sixty minutes to show what you can do. And the same holds true on Broadly. Every night you have people from all over the world from China, London, UM, Japan, uh, South America.

Every single night there's somebody from around the world coming to look at this show, uh and their critics in the audience. So there's a lot of pressure on you. And I'm thinking, yeah, you know, they're gonna come see with a football player is doing on this stage and if he can actually has the chops to do it. So it's very similar. The energy everything every receiving all night in every performance on Broadway is definitely like the super Bowl. Now, since we record of the episode, Eddie

pivoted again back to football. He's the new head coach of the Tennessee State Tigers, and they'll play their home games in the same stadium where Eddie started for the Titans for all those years. So certainly wishing him the best in his debut season, but I also think that, because of his passion for acting, his career on the stage isn't quite over yet. Now. The whole idea for this reinvention episode came from conversations with Clinton. Kelly Clinton

is a dear friend for twenty some years. He and my wife Jennifer are the best of friends. But I still learned a lot about Clinton and his ideas on reinventing himself and facing fear, fear of the unknown, fear of the unfamiliar. I think that knowing what you want um and having a plan on how to get it is really powerful. I think that you have to like really ask yourself, what do I want from life? Am I even close to achieving that? And if not, how

can I get there? And so then you have to ask yourself, are all of my behaviors serving that purpose, like moving me toward that goal? Or are they moving me away from that goal? And I felt like I am slowly feeling my goals slipping away from me because I just am afraid. Like that's what it boils down to. It's like, you know, people change for you know, people

don't change. I would say for two reasons. Like one is, you don't change if you're happy, Like if you just love your life the way it is, there's really no reason to change, right. And then I think the other reason people change don't change is that like they're afraid. They're literally afraid of change. And that is a very human response to change, like we are wired to keep the status quo, like that's what our egos want for us,

like do not change. If things change, you might die. Um. And so that's why a lot of us are just terrified of change. That's the thing that most people could do pretty easily. Just find one baby step that you could take to move you closer to the dream of the you that you want to be. One baby step and see what happens. And I always play this, Oh, here's another this is the thing that I love. I'm sorry, Chris, I'm there's a ramblin on here. Luckily you have an editor.

I always play a little game with myself, which is what's the best thing that could happen? What's the worst thing that could happen? Okay, that's It's pretty much a methodology that I use every day in my life, just to a certain degree, Like when I whenever I'm pushing myself to do something I haven't done before. What's the best thing that can happen? When you say hello to a stranger? You might make a best friend? You know. Um,

what's the worst thing that can happen? When you say hello to a stranger they tell you to you know, screw off? Um, you know, I don't want to talk to you. Generally, what happens is something in the middle. Like every time, something in the middle is going to happen, Like maybe you'll just have a boring interaction where they say hi, you say hi, You part ways, But that's the beauty of life. Like the things on the extreme

really really rarely happen. So do you this this is something you've carried on whether or not it's a question much later in life, if you've overcome your shyness. Should I start a fashion line? Should I take this TV opportunity? Should I say no to this public appearance? Do you have this conversation? What's the best and worst every time I have that all the time. That's what's the best and what's the worst is basically how I lived my

entire life, Like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Okay, well that's probably not gonna happen. What's the best thing that can happen? Well, that's probably not gonna happen togither. But you know, I'm pretty comfortable with all the stuff in the middle. So many people have gone through upheaval.

It's not just the planet, it's within workplaces, within households of all sorts in the last year or so, and so many people clinton have had not just doors closed, but doors slammed in their face and they can no longer go through that when they have to stand in there in the corridor and figure out how to open a new door and what that door is going to look like and feel like, and where that next door

leads to? What? What? What advice would you have for people that that are are forced to make changes and very uncomfortable or anxious about that? Yeah, I mean, first of all, we're living through an unprecedented time and at least in modern history. Um Like, yeah, people, a lot of people are going through a really, really tough time, and it's easy to say, like just make a pivot and you'll, you know, you'll your whole life will change

with the pandemic going on. So you know, there's that, But you know, I think that now is a good time for people to take stock of how they would like to re emerge from this. You know, like, if you've got a little bit of downtime, you know, take out a notebook and grab a pen and just write on the top of the page, what do I want

my life to look like post pandemic? And then really just create this vision of yourself in your new life, and then on the next page, maybe the next day or a few days later, just ask yourself what little steps can I take to get there? You know, um, because this is going to end at some point, and it's a perfect opportunity for you to say to yourself, you know, everything that I did pre pandemic is does it work for me anymore? So I'm gonna I'm gonna

have a different outlook. And the thing is, nobody's gonna be paying attention to you and the changes that you made after the pandemic, Right, It's a perfect opportunity for you to make some slide changes that can sort of slip under the radar. Everybody's gonna be like going through their own changes, going to be re emerging in their own way, being excited about that that you're just gonna be able to sort of do whatever it is that

you want to do. So take advantage of the opportunities that will come to you eventually, even if you don't have them right now. But I would say, right now, be as creative as you possibly can. If a door is slammed in your face, you know, either you you break down the door or you cut a hole in the wall next to the door to get into the door. You know, like you have to say to yourself, like just because somebody says no, you can't do this, that

doesn't mean that you can't do this. Like you're letting other people have too much control over you if they have told you you can't do this and you have agreed with them, like you basically relinquished all of your control over your life over there or to another person. Before we wrap, is there a mic drop moment or a state when you want to make about reinvention of someone that's gone through it? So so successfully yourself and

help so many other people do it. Um away to to sum up the messaging, get to the bottom of your fear. Really ask yourself, what are you afraid of? Do I want to be afraid of this anymore? And then take steps not to be afraid of it. I think that's that's what it boils down to, like tackle the fear, beat the crap out of it. You know, look it in the eye. You're like, you're ugly, um and you're not going to have any control over me. I think that's that's that's the biggest thing, Like get

in touch with your fear. Oh I haven't I know? May I have something more profound to say? That's pretty good? Are you afraid of dying or you how about this, Chris? Are you afraid of dying or are you more afraid to die not having done everything you wanted to do? That's that's what I realized. I know we're getting to this at the end of the interview, but that's what I realized was a big motivating factor for me. I didn't want to die knowing that I didn't do something

because I was afraid of doing it. Clip that is just so smart and he has a lot more to say, and I really urge you to listen to the entire Reinventioned episode if you're at that place in life right now or you know someone who is, because both Clinton and Eddie offered tremendous ideas that a whole lot of

people already have found really, really helpful. Next up the episode TV Music Moments, combining two of my passions, and the topic here is how music is used in important ways and some of the greatest TV series ever The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, mad Men, The Americans, on and on. And the perfect guy to lead off this episode is my buddy, Brian Koppelman. First of all, he's a true

savant in music, that's where his career began. But he's also had accomplished TV writer and producer and director, co creator, show runner, co writer of the brilliant series Billions on Showtime. I could play you a scene from one of my shows or anybody's show that I could play with. And if we just watched the scene, uh, someone sitting there and the camera's pushing in on them and there's no score,

no music playing, You're asking yourself, what's happening? What am I being told, but the moment that I put the right and and if I put one kind of track, you would feel one way. In another kind of track, you feel another way. And then when I found the right track, you would feel exactly the way the story wants you to feel. Um, And I've seen it over and over giin me. That's why David and I my creative partner, David Levin and I spend so much time thinking about the music in our show. But we were

talking this morning about The Crown. I don't know if you and Jen, how far into the Crown you are. I love that show. And Amy and I were watching episode five no I think God sorry earlier in the season. This was episode three. Maybe, Um, I'm not gonna spoil the show, but a bad thing happens to an older character. And uh, but right before that, for like the three minutes before, you see some scenes that are very prosaic scenes like where just people are doing very mundane things.

But there's this music building as we cut from scene to scene two scene, and Amy and I looked at each other on the couch and we're like, what the fund is going on here? Because it was building in a way that that just let us know, and it was the way it was cut too, but but the music was pushing in a way where it was like, Okay, something is about to happen here, and it wasn't pushed so much. Because if you use that do that badly, you as the viewer get annoyed and tired with it.

But if you do it right, suddenly you start feeling in your body a question before your brain even asks the question. I mean, that's the thing, Christoph, You get to do this stuff, and I'm sure it's the same with David Chase. I know it is in the Sopranos and Matt Weiner um on on on his show, Um mad men, m hm. You are lucky enough. If you're lucky enough to get to make stuff like this, you want every moment to just have maximum emotional impact, and

you want to empty the tool kit. You know, you just want to leave it all out there, and you want to just put every last bit of thought meaning effort into it. And your record collection is just about the best weapon you have once you've cast it correctly with an incredible group of actors, and you know the best craftspeople at every post. The last tool you have. The thing at the end is your record collection and

your composer's score. And those are unbelievably valuable tools. And and we just try to get the most we can out of them. Brian and I also got talking about something that's almost an endangered species these days, the TV themes on. Man, I mean, you just cannot underestimate the power of the theme song or the Sopranos. I mean, talk about something that just immediate. I put that on right now, it would change your state. Your state would just change if we put the Sopranos theme song up.

But all you had, you hear the first jingle, and you woke up this morning got yourself a gun. But but how does it come to pass that that is seen as a genius choice? That song was written about a woman who I think she killed her Husband's a female empowerment song and nothing to do with the gangsters, right, But that you put that that song, I get. I get got goose bumps just thinking about that, because that's

how much the Sopranos meant. You know, no to me too, man, And and and and if you think of like, yes, David Chase's Bob Dylans songs, he's great, great songs and to incredible effect. But right from the beginning Got Myself a Gun. You are in the feeling of the track to which works like score. As Tony's driving and beginning his day through that toll booth um, you are locked in, man, and you're locked in and identified with Tony, and it

just starts you going. Now. Among his many projects, Brian also has an excellent podcast, The Moment, and he's been very helpful in helping me get this podcast going. We're talking about this topic and he suggested getting the artist's perspective and how music is used in TV, and so I reached out to our mutual friend Mike Mills of R E M, one of my favorite all time bands.

I've known Michael longtime. Usually talk sports. He's a huge fan of the Georgia Bulldogs, his alma mater, and the Atlanta Braves, but here we find they got a chance to talk music, and it got to kind of geek out on my passion for R. E M songs and when you create something that does feel personal and in some ways has been described as deliberately non commercial, and then it sends tens of millions and wins awards and is is used in all kinds of films and TV shows. Um,

what do you feel then? I mean, it's it's gone beyond this little boat that you put in the water, and it's drifted around the world through the currents. You know, well, you know it's It's the thing is, once you release a song, it's not yours anymore. I mean, it belongs to everyone to a degree, and it's there's to interpret. It's theirs to ignore, it's theirs to listen to as much as as little as they want to. So, um, you know, and then there are always misinterpretations. You know.

The most famous one the one I Love, which was one of our early hits. It's not a love song in the real sense, so that it's it's a bitter song of of stalking. Uh, you know, not of stalking, but it kind of a rejection. Um, and it's it's really dismissive. But unless you listen closely, you won't know that. So it was always really fun to do shows and we start playing that song and couples would put their arms around each other and hug each other and dance

and kids and a segment. But really, what what the guy is saying she's telling the girl to piss off or whoever it is. What do you think a simple prop to occupy my time? That's sort of that turns the thing around one it gets worse because the last line is another prop to occupy my time. So I mean,

it starts bad and gets worse. But that's the kind of thing that we'll be used in a film or a TV show because people would latch onto the one I love and that that's what they want to let And then then you find out, wait a second, that this has nothing to do with what you were trying to say, And that's fine. It's fun to be subversive. Mike and I also talked about how R. E. M made two very funny, very unlikely appearances in two very

iconic television series, Sesame Street and The Simpsons. I'll tell you that the story about how that came about was was really fun. We were filming a video at some warehouse in Brooklyn and nearby Mike Scully when the executive producers of the Simpsons was filming an nrb Q documentary. Uh Now, Peter and I especially loved NRBQ, as does Mike Scully, so I ran into him in the hallway and we got to talking and he said, well, look, were you guys, you know, talk to me for my

INTERBQ documentary. I said, sure, if you put us on the Simpsons. He said, okay, so that's that's how we got on there, and uh and you know, and that's still you had no intention of that actually happening, right, You're just I was dead serious about might happen to Really, I that was a deal I was making. I said, yes,

we'll do that. We'll do an interview for you for your INTERBQ documentary, but you gotta put us on the Simpson's um And that was you know, that's a career highlighted to be in there, uh, doing those doing the voice over with a couple of folks from the cast. But you're kind of a butt of the joke. You guys allowed yourselves to be kind of your your reputation for embracing environmental causes. He was Homer was kind of making fun of that. And then Michael ends up, you're

very mad in the scene. So so you weren't You weren't averse to sort of poking fun at yourselves there. You have to if if you'd say the trouble is. Uh, you know, rock and roll is littered with the carcasses of musicians who took themselves too seriously. It's it's it's it's off putting, it's distasteful. Uh, it's like, you know,

Peter used to say this thing and I don't. It's not entirely true, but to a point, it is just like rock and roll is a joke and if you don't get the joke, then you're the butt of the joke. But you know, and I believe that, but I also believe that rock and roll can save your life. It literally, And so it's it's one of those things that that is in a way one of the most important things in the world, and in a way is not one

of the most important things in the world. And you have to be able to race both sides of that coin to really understand it. Is there a separation when you create the music and then you appear in in shows like The Simpsons and we haven't even gotten into Sesame Street yet, when you guys are are doing a kind of an altered version of Shiny Happy People, which is a very unexpected r M pop up at that time. I mean, it's those are the arenas when you can sort of hey, we get it, we are in on

the joke, we're not the butt of it. Absolutely, And again that also depends on the song. I mean, Shiny Happy People was a song. It was basically written for kids. It's like stand, you know, people go, oh, those are stupid suey ari um songs. Well, yeah, they're for children, you know. I mean, adults can enjoy them too, but they're primarily aimed at kids. Look at the videos you know those are you know, those are two appealed to children,

and that's and that's great. So why the heck not do furry Happy Monsters on Sesame Street, which was I think still one of the most popular things we ever did. I get people still coming up to me on the street saying how much they've still watch that with their kids, as even as their and their kids are showing it for their kids. Now, you know, it's it's just it was such a it had such a long life. It's incredible.

It's amazing. The landscape has changed so much. But there's so many usages for songs now that they do have a second and third and even a fourth life. Sometimes when people become aware of them that were way too young to hear him the first time. Have you ever come across some usage when you weren't I'm not. I'm not thrilled by the way that that's been interpreted, either the visual images that's been married to or or the way it's used in the plot. Is there any example that, yeah, okay,

we did it. We gotta put our money where our mouth is. But I'd rather not see our song kind of use that way. I was a little ambivalent about Independence Day. I think I think Into the World is an independence day? Is that right? Um? You know, big dumb blockbuster movies are. They're a little too lowest common denominators sometimes for feeling really good about it. On the other hand, and uh, if it worked, it fit the money wasn't bad. I won't lie about that. Um. But

but again, it's it's a huge movie. A lot of people are going to see that movie. And at that point, it's not about selling the music. It's just about having it heard, you know. Being a part of the zeitgeist or whatever is is nice, And um, I don't know, there are a lot of good things that come of that. You're you're part of the culture. It means you're gonna last longer, more people will have heard of you. It

gives you more freedom to do other things. Um, and you know, and again, I just like the fact that in ten years somebody's gonna watch Independence Day and go, holy crap, there's an r M song or what is that song? I gotta go find that song. It's it's just it's it's a little easter egg that sneaks up on people sometimes once another song. Obviously that's been downloaded and listened to a lot because of what we're going through.

But it's pretty amazing that one artistic creation there, this a few minutes long, could be used for Independence Day too, big bang theory to the film Buffy the Vampire Slayers, I mean, the Simpsons we talked about. That's that. That's one piece of music interpreted that many different ways. Yeah. Oh, and that's and that's the great thing about music is you can it means what you think it means. Mike is such a wise and thoughtful guy on lots of topics,

and was fun to hear his thoughts on music. This episode is an absolute must for fans of r e M or fans of how TV shows use music. Period. Next up, the latest in a subset of episodes in this podcast, storytelling at the nineteenth Hole with the ultra talented Mike Terko. Now, we had a lot of ground to cover in a thirty year friendship in TV sports broadcasting. We recorded this just before Mike went off to Tokyo

to host the Olympics for NBC. But we begin with the story from another global sporting event, the World Cup in Brazil. Hey. The true highlight of the World Cup and Brazil, though, I think, came when we were hanging out in the bar of one of the lobby hotels there, the the couc command of Beach and my wife Jennifer had the idea, you brought back the old days of Sports Center. Why not text her old friend, long lost Craig Kilbourne because we had we had we were sure

what happened to Craig. He kind of went away and went underground and we hadn't heard from him. And it's one of those after a couple of drinks and you're you're kind of euphoric to be there, she has the idea and lone boat, you do it, and he responds, I mean from the other world where he'd been spending the last few years. And it follows with connect in touch, follow him now on Instagram and every day, every day

there's something good. There's Craig enjoying, enjoying lives. But the picture that he sent you, the picture that he take freight nally he texted, he texted you a picture which was a precursor of his genius Instagram feed where he's very much in care Arcter, this kind of cocktail swirling renaissance. Man.

Here we are in freaking rio and Craig Kilborne emerges from a secrecy to like send you this text of enjoying a cocktail and you you were so you came and knocked We had we had parted way and that you came down the hallway knocked on the door from kilborn sorright, and that that was That's the funny part I think for all of us over time is we were we were there and you're still there at ESPN. Obviously we were there at such a really cool time.

The talent that was found was truly unique, and everybody couldn't be a Chris Burman copycat, but a lot of people figured out what their lane was with their personnely. What Oderman and Patrick did was brilliant, was absolutely bright. There's no way though that Chris Myers and I could follow and pull that off. So you kind of did what was in your personality and what was different, and

that that was I think. I think it helped us all learn how you had to have a little bit of a little bit of every club in the bag that you could play, but you had to have your own swing. You couldn't copy Berman's swing. You couldn't be Olderman. You just can't. You just can't do that, And that, to me is what helped our whole generation succeed and throve.

We we would be different people in different times like now, but for what it was back then, where I think we're all blessed that we not only had the place, but we all had each other to learn from too, push each other to take the best of and put it in the way I do things. And I think that's why so many of us are lucky enough to still be doing this thirty years after we started. Maybe you had a chance to ever reflect what you've been

able to do. You've been able to cover golf in the era of Tiger NFL in the era of Brady and Manning and Breeze and so many others, Kobe and Lebron calling NB. I don't know. I don't think you were a little bit too late for Jordan and Jordan had retired by the time you got there, but actually got the back end the back end of Jordan. Jordan too in Washington. Okay, I consider his career end when he was a bull. But but we've talked about in

Serena and Roger and Rafa in tennis. I mean just the gratitude that I'm sure we share for being around and being able to see that and never taking that for granted for a day. You're right, Uh, do count myself lucky for the service. But you've done. There's other things you've done. I just named just the name. Yeah, I'm with you. And what it What it made me think of right away was I get asked, Austin, what players do you like to talk to or what players

are the best in meetings? Right? And I say to folks, my favorite meetings with players that there's something that you enjoy, but the meetings that are the ones that you walk away and go okay, that that guy's wired differently, that woman is different than the others who I cover. Is that all these great athletes see sports to me differently

than the others do. In addition to their physical abilities which are extraordinary, their minds are powerful, very broad and wide in the scope of what they take in and their ability to take the mental and match it with the physical. Like if you if you ask me, what what football meetings do you look forward to? Uh? For NFL games Peyton when he was playing Brady Rogers Breeze, Like those guys, you just have a different quality of meeting with them. It's because they mentally do it so well.

And it was the same thing we uh, God rest his soul. Kobe's last game, it was a game that it was me, Hugh be and Lisasulters got to call in l A and Kobe sat with us for a half hour at five. Bishop was our producer and he had covered Kobe all the way back in his early day. Is Uh. We sat with with Kobe for like twenty five to thirty minutes and talked about career, of life, everything else. And he really he said, I don't know what I have in me tonight. I don't you know.

And he ended up having an incredible game that you know, you were reminded the mentality of the athlete and their mental approach to He knew exactly how much he had in the tank, and if he got going, he could he could get to sixty in the tank. Right what he did exactly exactly. You Be said, you know, I had it. I had it. I had a dream. I was shaven, and I remembered my dream. I thought, I thought Kobe could have like a fifty sixty point kind of game. And he threw that out like in the

first quarter, and Kobe is going there. I told you, I told you it was was one of those. But it's the athletes that the athletes who are so smart. And that's what I've learned to appreciate about Lebron. You talked to Lebron about basketball, Oh my gosh, it's a master class. He's he's so much. That's why he's an unbelievable assist guy and rebounder, and he's made so many

teams so much better over the years. And that's what I feel so fortunate is not just being able to call the events that these folks have been involved with, but to hear what makes them so great and it's an understanding. As the the axes cross between ability and mental acuity, the greats are able to maximize it longer because they know how to get the most out of

their body. They know how to handle situations like Tiger winning the Masters in twenty at forty four forty three that at that time, excuse me, I mean that that was stunning given what he had gone through physically, But Tiger's mental approach around Augusta and on the second nine on Sunday when they got to the twelfth and all the other guys hit it in the water and Tiger ended up over the bunker middle of the green made three and he just played smart golfful everybody else try

to go win the Masters, and his mental abilities the reason he won that Masters, and just to be able to tap into that briefly every once in a while is what I take away from the best of the best in this era of great efforts. Much more of the episode with Mike Terriko on the early days together at ESPN, and also the great events that Mike has covered. Next up twin episodes in season two that we call

Prowess and Perseverance. They focus on complicated issues that both Jennifer and I find incredibly important how to help and support our combat veterans. He had two brave, tremendous guests, ABC News correspondent Bob Woodruff, who was nearly killed on the roadside explosion will embedded with troops in Iraq, and Marine Corporal Kiante's story he lost part of his legol on patrol in Afghanistan. Kiante went on to become a sprinter,

a marathoner, and a mountain climber. His story of trying to make the final push to the summit of an Arctica's highest mountain, Mount Vincent, is incredibly compelling and emotional. I got really tired and I started to doubt my abilities because it became harder and harder, like as we're getting to the base of the summit um or right before the last push for the summit, so we had to rest camp and then wake up early that morning

and pushed for the summit. But that was where it kind of kicked in for me, where I was just like, you know, is can I do this? And it was kind of a moment for me where I looked at it I was just just like, hey, I made it this far. I'm proud of myself, Like I'm I'm I'm really proud of myself making this far. I never thought i'd make it this far in a mountain. This is kind of cool. Um, Like, if I couldn't go any further,

I'm still happy that I did this. But I don't ever half assid anything, And so it was just like, no, I can't set up for that. We're getting to the summit. And it got to a point where there was a section of it where I was just like, I I really don't know, like kind of like that marathon field too, where I was like, I don't know if I can do this, Like I truly don't know, because if I get to a certain point, we have to get back down. You know, there's no vehicle coming to get me. There's

no helicopter that's going to airlift me down. There's that's just not an option here at all. So I kept telling myself, I was like, what do you What do we do? And I'm like, well, we don't quit. So we're getting to the summit and the only thing I can do is try to find motivation. And I always go back to this because it makes me laugh. But I always thought of my Marines because I had the Marine Corps flag in my backpack, and that's what that was.

Another motivation of mine was getting that to the summit. But I always thought of my my Marines, how they would laugh at because I don't like the cold, and being an African American, like on the coldest mountain on the in the coldest place on Earth. It was just like, oh,

there's so many jokes, so many jokes. I just kind of laughed in my own head and just kind of took those names and the people that I remember who did pass away and even to you know, the names of my friends that they're still alive, um, and kind of just envisioned them like walking next to me or hiking with me and we're just kind of like laughing, um. And it it gave me that feeling of being back during those hard times where like I would even question in the Marine Corps like can I do this? And

I find my way to push through. And that was my motivation was doing it for them, doing it for me. But then also the other piece of that puzzle that clicked as I was walking up there, was like I'm doing this for other veterans who are wounded as well, who are in the hospital, who didn't think that, you know who, who don't know what's beyond or what's at the scope with their limit. Like when I saw Marks one, I didn't think that was an option for me, you know.

So to me that was motivation. I want to be that motivation for other Marines, other people. And so I was just like, no, this is this I wanted this is going to be something bigger than me, UM, but this is it's still a challenge for me. UM. And so as I'm going up to the summit, UM, I you know, it's funny because actually Tim, he kind of hit it for me for a while. He didn't want to tell me what the summit was, even though it's

like you're running out of space ward to go. Uh. But we get to the summit and I just break. I am truly in all and just just it was a surreal experience that I actually did it UM with all the doubt that kind of came in my mind and all the questions that I had, I was actually on top of Mount Vincent and the icing on the cake. And this is kind of another great story, is that I got to actually call my mom on that mountain.

The biggest, the biggest accomplishment I feel I've ever done was being on that mountain and I got to call the biggest inspiration and my biggest motivation. Um, you know, as soon as I got there. So to me, it is like the highlight of all my athletic feats. So that to me was a great feeling. Computer reflect back now more than a decade and that that September morning, when part of your right leg was taken from you, how would you say that incident made you grow as

a person? What did you gain from that experience from having part of your like taken away? Being injured is honestly one of the best things that's ever happened to me. I have to be honest with that, because I've done so much. I've done so much in my life that I would have never thought was possible, and finding myself through these challenges because of my injury, just to me

has made me a better person. Like if I had to say, well, if you were to ask me and then I wasn't injured at all, what would I be? I probably say back home in Stockton, where I was, you know, my hometown might be in school, might not be in school. You know, I might you know, I might have like tim kids right now, I don't know. You know, I couldn't. I couldn't truly answer that because I truly I didn't live the best life like being injured.

At this point, I've lived a lot of my best life that I would have never dreamt possible, And so my injury has really pushed me. But it also want made me want to push myself to be better and help others, because I feel like everyone should experience living life and not and not being stuck in place like you can be when you get injured. You can get stuck in place and think, oh, life's over, life's not great anymore. You know, you could be depressed. You really

spiral downwards. But I really continue to do these things to show other people their challenges for me, but to show other people that you can do it, whether you're missing limb or not. We all, we're all human. We all go through something mentally. You know, we all have a brain as far as I'm aware, but we so we all go through something. You know upstairs, you know, maybe it's a hard day, maybe you're going through a

tough time. I I want to show that you you know, even when times get hard, you can get through it. You just you just really got to keep moving forward. We have a choice in the matter of how we go about situations in our lives, how we you know, choose to make a plan, take action, or not do something. It's all a choice. But that's that's really the reality of you being in charge of your own life is

that you have a choice. Even if you feel like someone else is dictating it, have your you have a choice. You know, you have a choice of how you go about handling it. Really, I like kante story. Bob Woodrow spoke with great candor, in great detail about the day that his life path was changed suddenly and forever. He talked about the dark times, the despair, and the fear, but also about ways in which his near fatal head injuries changed him in ways that he could not have imagined.

My little daughter, Norah. I've got twin adorable little girls, and they were five years old when I was hit and about you know, six months after I came back, still had all of these wounds all over my body, and I couldn't remember a lot of things. Um and she my daughter asked me. She asked. She was talking to my wife Lee, and she says, Mom, you know, ah, dad's head seems to have that because they cut off part of my skull. You've got that dented head. And

mom says, don't worry. That's They're gonna put that skull back on. It'll be fun. And mommy's got all of these scars all over his back, don't worry. See that'll get better. And my dad's got all these little pieces of metal and rocks, you know, implanted in the left part of his jaw. She she says, don't worry those popping out one at a time. That's gonna be fine. And she said, you know, mom, noll the I think

my dad loves me even more than he did before. Now, whether that was an expression of it, um, maybe it indicated something. I felt so lucky to be alive. So that was a positive part. I think. I think maybe in some ways maybe I did change personality wise. I don't know. I'm sure there's always with depression. There's all sorts of snaps that happened. This is not a comb bay a story, but there are some things that maybe

are better about me. Bob says, that his injuries didn't just change his path, had changed his per us lug. With his wife Lee, they formed the Bob Woodriff Family Foundation, an incredibly important nonprofit organization focusing on veterans issues. The organizations known for thinking outside the box, filling in the gaps between government programs, being flexible and adaptable as the landscape changes. Much of the focus now is on the crisis of food insecurity for vets. His voice is both

passionate and pragmatic. I just want to make sure that people know that too. When I talk about the wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan, you know, this is you know, one one quarter maybe of those who served that have gone through something like this. You know, most of them have come back, you know, healthy, you know, and and the last thing they want to think is that we all think that they were at the war and they're wounded, and they're they're not able to do the same as

they did before. I just want to make sure that that's that that's clear. But those that did have something that happened over there, it's been really double a double whammy. Listen. I mean, respect and congratulations and all of that are really good for for everybody. But yeah, I mean, I guess you just don't don't assume that there's something, you know, some mental issue that had or physical thing that's you know,

that's invisible. But yes, I think yes, we make sure you look because this is one again that they don't want to come back and admit. So if you do notice something, then try to do if you can to convince them to seek some help or for that. But I do talk to a lot of veterans, and they love it when people have raised the flags and say thank you for serving our country and giving them the ability to get on the plane before the rest and

all that. But some also say, well, you know what, just let us kind of just just kind of go into this different world, civilian world we're now back at. You know, I'm not sure we I couldn't even tell you the percentage who love that and those who don't really want that. What they really want they want to get the job, They want a job, you know, they want to have their life better, not just somebody shouting out and say, you know you serve thank you so much.

But I'm not going to do anything more than that, you know, I'm not going to do anything else to help you. Uh, the big thing is not just to say or to show how much you love them. It's really more about doing something behind the curtain, to do something for them. I think it's a motivation for Americans to do something for them because there's a point where this system may not continue anymore if it looks like

we're not going to really treat them with dignity. Those that do volunteer to take the risk, whether it's in the hospital, where it's in the stands of the war. You know, if we that doesn't happen, if we just stop supporting those that are still needs after serving, then maybe the next system will be a draft again. You know, then we will people are not gonna want to volunteer, and therefore we're gonna have to make your grandchild do it instead. You know, even though he doesn't want to,

it doesn't have to build. Let's do so. So I think there's a there's a motivation to continue to do something for the for the military if you can. I'm so grateful for Bob's friendship and for his example of resilience and generosity, and I should learn more about the

Bob Winder Family Foundation. Now. The final episode of Season two also focuses on family, three generations of Van Winkle's, who created, rescued, and resurrected the family whiskey business that now produces one of the most coveted bottles of spirits on the planet. It's Kentucky Derby Day, and the bizarre chapter in American history known as Prohibition has just ended. A whiskey salesman, Julian Van Winkle, merges two smaller companies

and forms the Stitzelweller Distillery not far from Louisville. The man's preferred recipe for bourbon is a little different. He likes wheat as the secondary grain to corn. Not right. The man knows what he wants. He demands quality. He says, we will make fine bourbon and a profit if we can, at a loss if we must, but always find bourbon. The company flourishes. He passes it along to his son,

Julian Jr. But then tough times sales drop. Bourbon becomes uncool to drink in the sixties and seventies, and Julian Jr. Has to sell. Eventually, his son Julian Van Winkle, the third Pappy's grandson, takes over the company and with some help and some good fortune, but mainly just plenty of hard labor, stubbornness, and faith. He rebuilds the van Winkl

brand and reclaims the family legacy. It's an honor and a lot of fun to have Julian as my guest on this podcast that his story of how Pappy Van Winkle became one of the most coveted bottles of spirits in the world. It is really incredible. It was. It was stressful. You can ask uh as my wife Cissy, and our and our children even um, you know, I don't know um what they thought of what I was going back then, but I was just hanging on with my fingernails. And it's the only thing I really knew

how to do. UM, so I wouldn't ah, And I knew it was good a good product. I mean I knew damn well as a good product. So UM, I just was gonna go down with the ship, so to speak, if it didn't work out. But kept trying and trying and trying, and and I you know, I am stubborn. I'm gonna ride this baby all the way down down to the grave or up to the to the heavens. But it luckily worked out with a lot of help from a lot of people talked about in the book. But it's um it was, you know, it's it's do

or die. But I believed in it, which is the main thing. These days. Pappy van Winkle Bourbon is producing the Buffalo Trace Distillery. We'll get into all that with Julian, why Pappy's is so delicious and why it's so damned hard to find even in Kentucky, whereas legend has it, there are two barrels of bourbon for every person. I also bringing some rate stories of that episode. A good buddy and the superb writer, right Thompson, who wrote the book Pappy Land, a story of family, fine bourbon, and

things that last. Well, that's it for our season to highlight show. Hope you had a quarter of as much fun listening to it as we had putting it together. Now we're excited about the return of this podcast with season three, brand new episodes. We're gonna launch with the return of full fledged football, not the games on the field, but all the things that surround college football that make

it great. The top tailgating scenes in the country, the best bands in the land back performing in stadiums and the mascots on the sideline has got some unbelievable stories about some very famous mascots. Football is back. This episode is going to be a real celebration of that, and it's coming very very soon, so keep an eye out for it. In the mean time, write you to subscribe the feedback on my Instagram and get ready for season three. I'll talk to you very soon.