SEASON 1 HIGHLIGHTS

Today we recorded this and we covered a wide variety of topics, including his passion for golf, and Charles considers his time and the golf course with his buddies, many of them fellow sports legends, to be the best part of his life. These days you get to go with those guys. All you talk about is the good old days, and golf is the catalyst. I mean, golf is wanted. A few sports, well, let me phrase it. Golf is the only sport you can play when you get older.

Golf is only spot like some guys might go out and try to play tennis, but golf, man, you can ask to go out and have fun. Like I said, You're gonna have a few beers. You can smoke some cigars, you can talk trash and then it's just like you away from stress. Uh, you know, there's nothing going on. You're like, you just have a window where you can just have fun and then when it's over, hopefully you want some money and hit some good shots. Golf is the only thing you can do that with. I mean,

we can't go out and play basketball. A football player can't go out and play football. A baseball player, you know, a great Roger Clemens can't go out and pitch right now, you know, But you know what, when we get together, like that's like when I'm in Lake Tahoe when Roger Clemments comes saying hello to me. Josh Allen this year, this year it was Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey. I

played golf with those guys. I played golf with m. M. Smith. Like, not only did you get a chance to talk to those guys, but you get a chance to play golf with him. And you can't beat that. So you talked about the great conversations during a round of golf. The company. It's a tough question, but was there around for you that sticks out above all the others where everything was just perfect, How you were playing, where you were, who were you with? Maybe one money at the end, all

of it just kind of came together. You said, this is the perfect round. It can't get any better than this. I think I shot seventy one time on of course in Kentucky and Wants celebrity tournament. That was probably the highlight for me personally. But to answer your question, I think Tiger is the greatest golfer who ever lived. I think, no disrespect to Jack Nicholas, who was an amazing person and great and the great golf in his own right.

But I think because of the competition, the equipment. I think the competition has just gotten better over the years, as you can see, like the reason that why no we won every Rayder Cup for a hundred years and now it's like a toss up because they just got better players in other countries and better equipment. And when I played with Tiger, it was always an honor and a privilege. Um the same thing would feel. But to say that I played what, in my opinion is the

greatest golfer ever, it was pretty surreal. Uh. And I told I told people, as the guys, I don't play with a lot of people. But I saw some stuff today because I ain't never seen before. I said, his ball makes a different sound when it comes off the club face and I said, and this before he I don't even think he had won a major at the time. That's how for this go back. And I'm like, this is this dude here? Uh, like I said, And I don't played with field quite a bit, Tom Lehman a

bunch of pros in Phoenix. I'm playing a bunch of pro am. But when I played with Tiger for the first few times, I was like, Damn, this kid here is ridiculous. So that was probably the coolest moment for me. And then obviously after he'd want a bunch of majors to play with him, I was like, yeah, this is this is the Michael Jordan's Dwayne Gretzky like, there have very few players who you're like, oh, they're the best of what they ever did. So I think Wayne Gretzky

is like that. I think Michael was like that. No disrespect to Kobe or Lebron or Jack Nichola, but I think Tiger is the best I've ever seen. And it was an honor the Pervos to play with him. We talk plenty more about golf, including Charles Rowle in my most humiliating athletic experience ever. He also got off an a vintage rant about fans and our colleagues in sports broadcasting. It's so funny, you know, I've known guys like yourself. I've know I mean, can we all travel in the

same circles? And I got friends in the business going back to Burn and Gary, Uh, you know, guys like that. I've had dinner with them, and Joe Buck and guys like that. And there you're telling me like people actletely think we care who wins. Like when I'm in Alabama, They're like, I hate Gary and Verne. I'm like, why you garn there? I said, they have two of the nicest guys in the world. First of all, if you don't like Burn, you've got something wrong with you. Ye, like, well,

they hate Alabama and Auburn. I said, really, really, are you serious? I said, you guys are just idiots. That's just I know Burn pretty well. I don't know Gary that well. But they're two great guys. But let me tell you something. They don't care who wins. Nobody cares who wins but fans think that because they hear what they want to hear. It's like Ernie was doing baseball one year and I went to the playoffs and people in in um in Philly, uh booing Ernie. I'm like,

what they're doing, Ernie. They're like, they think you don't like the Phillis. That's just first of all, if you blewing Ernie Johnson, you're just an asshole. That's Ernie Johnson is the nicest person in the world. But this notion that Ernie cares who wins, so you have to learn it. You go like, man, I don't care who wins the game. You know what I want. I want the season to be able so I can get to my vacation. That's what I want more than anything. I want to cease

to be over. Ernie's go ask me who's gonna win. I have to pick somebody, but I don't care who wins. But it always makes me laugh, like people care that nounce. They think like, well, that guy doesn't like my team, that guy doesn't like my school. I'm like, god, please stop, please stop. Nobody like cares who wins these events. So I kind of figured that, like, okay, if you don't like my nuts, and that's fine. I kinda get into what I'm trying to defend myself. I've had this confedsation

with Joe Buck, who's fantastic. I'm like, you know, he's like, what do you do? Do you do? You? You want the best to ever do it? This notion that you care who wins. It's just Athanine, You're just doing your job. But fans they like, oh I hear this. No, no, he didn't say that, but that's what you want to hear. You know, we we we talked about this because you share all of the college football. The passion of the fans is one of the engines that makes this thing work.

So I understand they view it through a lens. I understand they're going to hear what they want to hear and that their opinion is gonna be colored by that. And they think everybody's biased. You do a game, you got fans from both sides, and you were obviously biased against us. I can hear it other team fans say the same thing. You know you're doing a good job when you're when you're doing that, but I yeah, that's

that's not something you can worry about. And I yeah, but because I've actually I go to the Iron Bowl every year, my favorite sporting event other than the Olympics. And I can seem be sitting with Alabama and Arburn fans and they both said those announcements hate both of us. I'm like, you guys are just idiots. But it goes back like you've been in the business forever. I've been in it for twenty years, and like guys, we all knew each other. We don't care who wins. We're throwing

the stats out there. Your defense sucks. We got that. We can't get on TV and say your defense is good. Well, and we say your defense sucked, and they suck. That don't mean we dislike your team, but you're right. They hear what they want to hear. And it's funny though, Uh it's funny. I always tell people fans want to hear two things, my favorite players and my team is great. If you don't say those two things, you're screwed with

that fan base. I tell people my favorite player, you better tell me he's great, and you better tellim and my team is good. That's like what I'm in New York. Where are you at right now? It's always fun to go there because the Knicks fans are amazing. Every year you go there, they're like, you hate the Knicks. You hate the Knicks? Like, what are you talking about? You said they sucked every year? I said that stuff, they suck every year. And I said, wait a minute, Why

am I a Knicks hater? If y'all suck every year? And I see y'all suck every year, why does that make me a hater? Now? That was recorded before the Knicks actually finally had a good season and Charles had to eat a few words. Now, the episode one highlights

the good, the bad, and the funny. Four skilled interviewers and superbo storytellers Sharon tales that range from the triumphant to the tragic, the edgy and the cringe e. First up, Willie Guys to host NBC Sunday Today, offering insight on his wonderful interviews with the likes of David Letterman, Al Pacino,

and the elusive Bill Murray. Yeah, that was a case like Dave where a life sort of preparation with Bill Murray came in handy because for people who don't know, he doesn't have a manager or publicist, He has no one like that, and celebrities have these layers of people that you go through. He still has, all these years later, a one eight hundred number that if you want to talk to him and get an interview, call and leave

a message. This is a true story. And for Bill Murray and so our bookers say, Hi, this is so and so from Sunday today, Willie Guys would love to interview. And we never heard back, so most people never hear back. And then he came in to do a live interview on The Today Show with Savannah I think one morning and he was he's messing around doing what he does with everybody, and he's in the green room and our booker was there, which is you're the booker said, yeah,

I don't do that Willie Guys show. Let's do that today, and they went today, Yeah, let's do it right after this. There's no there's a whole thing. We gotta get it set up, an elaborate shoot. It's called the Today Show. It's gonna men today for a long formative. He's like, just do it. Why don't we just he slides in the chair after Savannah, we do another inter of you. So luckily he was we didn't have time to set it up that quickly. But luckily he said I'm gonna

be in town for another day. And all he said was have him come by the hotel at ten o'clock tomorrow morning. Okay, So we set up a shoot on the roof of the hotel, a little bar at the hotel. Who was staying, set up our cameras. Ten o'clock, the elevator doors opened. His hair's messed up, he's in new Balance shoes, corduroy pants, some free golf zip up he got at a tournament somewhere, probably Tahoe or something like that.

And he sat with me for over an hour. And that was another one to your point of don't be the guy who's quoting Caddyshack to build Murray because he's gonna smell that immediately. Remember that. And then you said this, and then you said that the Dali Lama, big hitter, you know, don't don't do that, And I think I are. We were talking before the interview about he's a big Illinois basketball fan and my parents went there, so I was raised in Illinois basketball. We talked. It's probably on tape.

I bet we're recording twenty minutes about like the nine Flying the Line nine versus the two thousand five Darren Williams d Brown team, And I think even from that and that was genuine for me. I grew up and then we had trust right there. And so then unsolicited he talks about Caddy Shack and we get into Ghostbusters

and then he starts telling the SNL stories. He's like, oh, there was this one time Keith Richards and I were in a bathroom stall with a bottle of Rebel Yell while Mitt was out on stage singing some girls, and you're just going, oh my. And there are those moments you've probably had them where you're always doing your job or you're looking across and you go, Bill Murray's telling the SNLS tour, what a gift this is? You know,

sometimes you just freeze the moment. What a gift. And I felt that way with Dave and al Pacino too. But yeah, the ones that don't do a lot of interviews and you can get to tell you things that you haven't heard a million times elsewhere, those are the best. Those are the best interviews. So they can't all be gems. And the greatest hockey player of all time wasn't. It wasn't didn't put the biscuit in the basket in that one. Well, no, he put the biscuit in the basket. It was me.

I whiffed on opening it. So this was at the two thousand ten Olympics in Vancouver where he was sort of the grand ambassador at the Olympic Games, meaning Canada, and I was at the time, was ten years ago. I was I host a show called Way Too Early, which was on live at five thirty AM on the remember that four Morning go So in Vancouver, it's on a two thirty AM. So I'm getting into the the IBC at midnight. Every night. I'm waking up at eleven PM,

going to bed at seven or eight. But I'm also out shooting things during the day, trying to get on the Today Show, just going a hundred miles an hour. And so the one night I didn't go out much for obvious reasons because everyone was out while I was in bed. But I did go out one night, finally got some time out. I went out with all the NBC people and my phone rang early in the morning and they said, you know, nobody else is around with

Wayne Gretzky wants to do a quick interview. And I sort of woke up and its stupor, and I was exhausted after a month of this, and let's be honest, I was a little hungover and I wasn't feeling I was feeling a little green. And I said, well, of course, where do I come to the IBC. We'll do it in one of this little you know, this little flash studio. And so I was thinking about, all right, this is a big deal. You know, Costas is still asleep, nobody

else is doing It's my turn to do it. So um, I put on I put on a shirt and then I thought I'm gonna go for like the sweater into the jacket. Look, so basically I had like three layers on. Then I put on a blazer and I hadn't slept in a month, and I'm hungover. And so I go into this little booth and there's Wayne Gretzky, total gentleman,

and they say it's pretty hot in the booth. I don't They hadn't fired everything up yet, you know, And I've got four layers on, and so they say, all right, three to one interview, Wayne Gretzky and Chris like I've never had on TV or off, just the water works from the forehead down. And if you've ever been in that position, the more it happens, the worst it gets. You're thinking about it, you're trying to stop it with your mind, and for some reason, nobody stopped the fight.

There are producers in there. I'm going, he's any gonna throw the towel in here right now? Literally, I could have used the towel and stop this fight. And to his great credit, I'm this close to Wayne Gretzky. He's talking about how great it is to have the games

in his home country. I'm just pouring sweat, and he just without acknowledging it, he didn't say word, didn't an entire interview, and just kind of gave me a pat on the back and a wink like, I don't know what's going on here, buddy, but I'm glad we got through that together. And he walked out like the gentleman he is, and my producer came in was like dude, and I said, dude, what about you gonna help me

out here a little bit? And so that interview now for all times, has been known as the Sweat Sky Interview. Mixed up. They always cool and composed and extremely talented. Maria Taylor, what do you find is the most rewarding aspect of interviewing? My favorite I've always said that being in the moments of say in NFL or NBA Draft, where you're getting to you've seen the entire arc of

a player's career, you know what I mean. They've worked so hard from their freshman year to you know, fighting through. Maybe they had a little bit of trouble, maybe they knew they needed to work harder. Maybe you know, you've heard stories about how they became even more active in their community. Then they became a captain and they became a leader. You've watched them win all the awards, and

then on the day of the draft. I always think back to the NBA Draft two seasons ago, and you're getting you know, you're getting the tears from Zion even though he knew he was going to be the number one overall pick. But it's still I mean, I started in South Carolina as a kid who's just trying to make it to college, you know, and now look at where I am and we're talking about the whole city of New Orleans, celebrating just because my name was called

and I'm overcome with emotions. So one of the greatest things is just to even be there holding the mic, documenting that moment for a player or a person, because we get to be there in those moments that they can remember them forever and they will look back at that and think about that moment and re able to remember some of those emotions and hear how they were feeling, and we get to share that with them. So that's probably the best part of it. Last thing, we all

have our lists. The list includes some coaches who are going to be honest with you, not intimidate you, being expressive. Another list for coaches fall short of that criteria. I'm not gonna ask you who's on the ladder list, because I know you're still interviewing a lot of these same people, But would you acknowledge that those lists exist and how does it shape the experience with the preparation for you

when when a coach falls in one of those two camps. Okay, so in the second camp and just straight dread what you're gonna get um and you're like, oh no, that's on the schedule. Okay, here we go I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna put my taftl on on for this one. And then there's coaches like I mean Steve Spurrier, who's not coaching anymore, but I would always love it. Doesn't matter if it's the pregame, doesn't matter if it's postgame and pathtime, you're gonna get a great quote from Spurrier

because he's gonna be funny. It's probably gonna be a little bit light harder. I don't care if they're down, I don't care if they're up. He's gonna make fun of somebody, and it's just gonna be interesting. Like you gotta have the old ball coach in the first category. And again, I think when you're in the second you're just very You're trying to keep your questions as neutral as possible, like trying to find ways and not how

the attack come at you, if it's possible. And uh, also just knowing that no matter what happens, like I'm still a good reporter after this. You gotta build your own confidence for those. Episode one also featured great stories from Jeremy chap about his interviews with Mike Tyson, Bob Knight, and many others and from rich eyes and told some

hilarious stories. We got talking about mistaken identity, and I told a story about the Hollywood legend who punched me in the arm later on, gout in my face and refused to be interviewed by me on the set of Game Day. I think you will enjoy that story now. Besides a whole lot of laughs, in season one, we also featured companion episodes called You Are Not Alone, putting the focus on an issue of crucial importance these days, mental health. Hoping to expand the conversation and reduce the stigma.

Are two guests, Dan Patrick and Gary Goldman were both powerful, vulnerable and generous. Now, Dan and Gary's own experiences with mental health are very different, but each of them delivered passionate messages, helpful and hopeful to those who are struggling or for those who have loved ones who are struggling well. Depression is a topic that's been important to me and lots of people. I do want to get into that. You said you've had in your family, so you have

an awareness of what it's like. You understand that it's not a character flaw, it's a flaw in chemistry. It's not in your control, but it's very, very tough to to find a way to navigate out of that. So when you're when you're you're feeling this pain and obviously you're going through all the scary thoughts, how did that translate into sort of mental difficulties and take you sort of to a dark place. I didn't know I was there. I think a lot of people who are depressed don't

know they're there. And I just I would just get to a place where I didn't want to talk, you know, I just sit and then I didn't realize I wasn't talking, and my wife would say, what's wrong? I go nothing, But I was in my own world and I I just I don't know. I let it uh kind of easy its way in and then it doesn't leave easily. Um, And you know, I kept thinking, you know, everything in my mindsetf I can figure this out. I can get out of this. I can be better than this, I

can be stronger than this. And then I realized that I couldn't. And that's you know, when you know, I just had to figure out can I do? I need to talk to somebody, and then the you know, I'm stubborn. I don't want to talk to somebody. I don't need to talk to somebody. So I kind of just you know, threw myself into a deeper, deeper hole. And I pulled into the driveway one time, and I'm embarrassed, but I went in right into the garage and I just said,

if I shut that garage door, I'm good. That's that. That was the way out. That made a little bit of sense for a moment there, for a moment, And I understand when people say, how could somebody do something like that? I just, you know, you pull in and I go, I can shut that door, and then I go what like? And then of course it hits you and you go, what God, what am I thinking here? And you know, you're leaving four kids and you're you know,

just all the just crazy. But you get in that space and I couldn't get out, and you know, you just like I couldn't wait to get out of the car and out of the garage to go what am I doing? What am I doing? What am I doing? Was that a momentary thing one time? Persistent? No, that was once, but the depression was that was constant where it was just like I just dreaded waking up in the morning, hated it. What did that? What did it

feel like to you? Because people describe it in different ways, but what what the depression on the daily basis feel like to you? It was just it was as if the day is cloudy, overcast every day energy. Did you have any No, No, you just don't want to do anything. I didn't. I didn't want to do anything. And I would sit downstairs at night and I would smoke a cigar and drink. That would that would be the routine every night, just sit there and it was that you know,

wallowing period or whatever it was. But I was just down there, didn't want to talk, and you know, that was it. So like seven to nine o'clock, you know that was that was happy hours. But you know then you realize that I'm done. It doesn't make it any better, but I was trying to take away pain. You got angry when when Dak Prescott was criticized for showing his vulnerability and what he had gone through suicide. Yes, I mean his mom died, his brother died of a suicide.

And then you know people, you know, just say, well you're vulnerable, Well you're making it so vulnerable. I mean, you can't be a leader if you're vulnerable. Like I didn't, I didn't understand damn that logic. I'm going, oh my god, well, will people stop doing this because you know, we're stigmatizing this again. And that's the dangerous part where people are gonna be afraid to come forward. But you're like, oh, you're soft. What if that's the case? Sign me up.

I'm fucking soft. But I'm vulnerable, and so Dak Prescott in that moment. God, I can't imagine how vulnerable he was. And for people to say, you're the leader of a football team, that's not what leaders do. I'm more apt to follow that guy than a guy who was keeping everything inside. And I just it angered me, and probably because you know, it was hitting me personally, but I

just said, man, don't don't do that to people. If you're gonna do it to Dak Prescott, you're gonna do it to you know, somebody who might be in your family. Come on, toughen up, don't be so soft. Um. I've had a couple of people who've committed suicide that I know, And if you would have said that these two people are gonna kill them sounds. I said, there, you're you got to be crazy In a million years, I would you know I I when I found out, I went

and there's no way. But that's why when people go, you know, be tough, you know, don't be soft, don't be vulnerable. Sometimes for those who suffer, it just takes the one voice, whether it's Michael Phelps, he said, Kevin Love others, for some out there that would be you. You would be the voice that would connect with them and make them understand that what they're going through need not make them feel alone, that there is a way

out of it. So what if anything that you haven't already said, would you say to someone who is coping with Not the PMR that's very specific, but the feelings and thoughts that went with that, the took you to the dark places. Well a lot of it is as a result of something leads to depression or brings depression out from what I've been told, and I think that's where you have to talk to people. If you've gone through something that's traumatic, you've lost somebody, you haven't can

issue you know, that's where you have to be. Just find somebody who will listen to most people just want to tell you, they just want to talk because you're the one that's stuck with it. Everybody else goes along, you know, every day with their lives, and then you want to just grab somebody and hold him and he then sit down and just say, hey, I'm going through this.

And it's not that I didn't have that, it was just after a while, you didn't, you know, it wasn't cathartic for me, Like I I just needed to feel better about myself. And I think the more that you you're willing to talk to somebody it, but more importantly, you have to have somebody who listens to you. That was the most important thing that I had somebody who

was willing to listen. And it could be people who were going through depression, my wife obviously, and I felt like I was important, like what I was going through was important to them, and vice versus. So when somebody says, hey, I'm going through this, or hey did you ever feel this, I'm all ears. Like I know that feeling is like you can tell it in somebody's eyes when they really give a shit about what you're talking about, and when they do, it's just this unbelievable weight that goes off

your shoulders. Where you going, Okay, I can just talk to you. I always feel like, you know, the clock is running. You know. I work in a business where the clock is always running, and when I sit down and talk to somebody, I always think they're gonna go. I got about two and a half minutes to get this in and and then you could just see where they're kind of going blank or they look at their

watch and gotta be there. Mean while I'm saying, and then my wife and I couldn't get up and I couldn't try my shoot, and then they're going, okay, hey, well see you again, Dan, Nice to talk to you, Like why did I reveal myself like that? But talk to somebody and just know that you're not in it alone. You're not. But you've got to find somebody that you trust, that loves you, that cares and will listen to you,

and then you try to find a solution. The courage that Dan has shown in describing his troubles has been incredibly helpful to so many people, and that is deeply gratifying to him. Another man who's a symbol of hope for those struggling with mental health. Is Gary Gellman, one of my favorite comedians and incredibly intelligent funny man. And

You Are Not Alone. Part two, Gary talks about his struggles with mental health, his entire adult life, which includes a stint as a Boston College football player and the rise of the comedy ranks, where Gary says his mental health often hinge on the reaction of audiences from Night Tonight. In searching for answers, he read the book by Bruce Springsteen, who talked about his own deep struggles with depression. I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse.

If you can relate to someone like Springsteen or Cheese, if even he is subject to all the darkness and the evils of this, what am I going to do about it? I mean, there's different ways you could take his his example, or the example of those who are heroes and have everything talent, success, money, fame, all that. My city was. I'll work hard, I'll do something great, then I'll feel good about myself. And I have found in the past two and a half years that it's

the opposite. I feel great and now I'm working harder, and and it's easier. The work is so much easier because I don't one, I don't have a brain that is that is actually slower. They show that brain is slower when you're depressed. It's not working, it's not firing, it's not operating at its maximum uh ideal level. And

so that's a handicap. And then the other thing is that depression also causes these ruminations and what you're saying, you're you're not talented, you're not smart, you're you're weak, you're lazy. And then and so I'm fighting that off and trying to write an interesting joke. It's it's just too much to ask for. I mean, it's it's interesting

in the in the physical aspects of depression. And the horrible thing about depression is x different people different ways, so that I would sleep for nineteen hours and still be tired, and some people will go days without sleeping and they can't eat, and other people all they can do is eat and they put on all kinds of of wait. But one of the things I found was that Shane, who's about five ten, would walk and I

would be when I was depressed. I would say, please slow down, I can't keep up with you, and and I'm I'm six ft six and athletic, and that was that was never the case with anyone. I always outpaced everyone. And and since I've been feeling better, it's it's back to normal where I'm I'm slowing down too so she can catch up with me. And and and it was it was exhausting these these block I would walk my dogs for fifteen minutes and I would have to take a nap, and and and that that's not that's an

me I have. I have energy. And the depression had had hijacked my brain as as well as my my my limbs. And I didn't realize how how far it had gotten until I started to recover and found all these things so much easier. Gary's path through recovery includes to stay on what he refers to as the psych word where he got electro convulsive therapy. Now he speaks about those very intense topics with great humor in his HBO comedy special The Great Depression. If you haven't seen it,

I urge you to watch it. It is very powerful and very funny. And the recording of that special for Gary was a truly triumphant moment. So I had all these people there and I and I said it, and I meant it. My only fear was that it would come off corny, and it was that I had contemplated suicide sometime for every moment I was awake for days on and and I said, I am so glad I stuck around for this, and and it just it's it's laughable what I received just for sticking it out. It's

it's absurd. If I had just had one audience full of these people, it would have been worth sticking around for because it felt so good. But not only that HBO was there, and my family was there, my therapist was there, and Judd Apata was backstage. It was it was, it was silly. I literally pinched myself on on stage that night because it felt like a dream. So it may not be that, but it also there are nights,

and again I'm gonna come back to laughter. There are nights where you're out with your friends and and Kurt Vonnegut said that whenever you're feeling great, whether you just had sex, whether you just had a great meal or a great laugh, you should say to yourself, if this isn't nice, I don't know what is, and you should say it out loud as sort of a bookmark. We need to bookmark these these moments. And that was one

of those moments. And I know it didn't have to be that big because that there was a there was a birthday. You're you're always going to get your birthday, and you're going to say to yourself, is this isn't nice? I don't know what is and it's worth sticking around for it and and not giving up. Is the only way you can guarantee that you'll at least have the the chance. And I used to and my my, my wife was was so crucial to this because she kept

researching developments in treating depression. She wasn't giving up and and part of me was saying, just stay alive in case they cure this. Just stay in the game, in case they cure this. You don't have to do anything, just just read all day or sleep all day, but be alive when they cure this. It's been wonderful to develop a friendship with garys since we recorded that episode.

Part of his regular mental health regiment lall walks through New York Central Park, and I've accompanied him occasionally on those. I can tell you these days, Gary keeps up a very brisk pace now both you are not alone. Episodes provide hope if you're struggling with mental health issues and would also be very helpful if you're trying to gain a deeper understanding now. Gary's comedy is also featured in

another episode from season one, Laughter's Power. We talk about the power of laughter to make us happier, healthier, less stressed, more resilient, and connect us with others. Gary has brought me lots of laughter because his material on sports is as good as anybody's. Here's a clip from The Great Depression, which is featured in the episode. I fell in love with basketball almost immediately because because vast cotball just fits my personality. It's still does. Basketball is the only sport

you can practice by yourself. I spent a lot of time practicing basketball by myself, and basketball also fits me because it's the only sport where if somebody so much as slaps you on the wrist, they stop the game, stop the game, separate everyone, and let you make two easy shots while everyone else is forced to watch quietly, as if to say, think about what you did. Also a guest in Laughter's Power, a budding neurosurgeon and former NFL player FS who's seminal and Rhodes scholar Dr Myron Roll.

He is passionate talking about how laughter makes us feel physically great and how laughter has helped him through his demanding careers in football and in medicine. Something else that makes us feel great is adventure and exploration. And then the inspiring travel episode, I've got a pair of extremely experienced travelers and great storytellers. First up, pioneering TV host Kelly Edwards, accomplished pilot, scuba diver, mountaineer, and Outside Magazine's

most Interesting Woman in the World. Kelly talks about how she made the journey from the South side of Chicago to a life of global exploration. It's changed my life. I've seen it change other people's lives. I've introduced a lot of people to travel. I've purchased a lot of passports for Christmas for my friends. I feel like, no, I don't want to give you a pair of shoes. I'm going to give you this tool that you can

see what you're made up in the world. And I've had people on trips with me and on trips that they're taking themselves and say, why didn't I do this earlier? And I say, at the end of the day, it's never too late to start. That's an awesome message. I think that it is important member that adventure, you know, need not be exotic or far flung. Adventure just requires you to pack your curiosity right and be open to

learning things and seeing things. And you can have adventures within the city you live right if you in your mind. So what's the most mundane place that you visited you ended up having an adventure and and some great memories of m hmmm. I'd say I wasn't expecting too much out of like Joshua Tree really because it looks like there's just like a bunch of Joshua trees, if that's what they're called, everywhere out there, and say, a lot of a lot of rock formations, and it's really really hot.

Oh my gosh, I went camping out there over night. I had never seen the stars so clear so close to Los Angeles. Did you have a spiritual experience out there? And it was incredible absolutely without any assistance, I mean, just a natural spiritual experience exactly. No, totally natural. And I mean when I say natural, just me myself and me, no no additives. But I had a moment out there. What's been the most gratifying reaction to that position? Because

no one needs permission to travel. But if you see things constantly filtered through a middle aged white guy lens and may not spark your imagination in the same way for some folks that seeing you do these things does. So what's been the best feedback you've gotten in terms of Kelly? You really opened my eyes and you changed my perspective. I feel liberated now to do things that

I didn't before. Sure, I've had a few examples. There was a fifty five year old woman who came up to me and says she started taking swimming lessons because she saw me swimming in the water on television. I'm like, I'm sorry. She's like, yeah, no, I I It's time for me to learn how to swim. And so I

started taking lessons because I saw you. I have parents writing letters to me on behalf of little Girls, saying that my daughter saw you UM on television or in this magazine, and she now knows that she can being explored too, and that she can fly planes too. UM. I had a little girl who was picked on UM as a tomboy UM and and on her block, and the mom reached out to me to say that I

went to show my daughter. Sorry, I don't want to cry, but my daughter was getting picked on by these boys because of her loving being outside and the outdoors, and I wanted to show her women doing these things too, And so I googled you and I brought you up and she said, oh my gosh, mommy, she's she's a girl like me. I can do I can do these things.

It's not just for boys. So when you get that type of feedback from young women, people of color, people who never thought they can do any of these things, and just my presence changes their perspective, it's been very powerful. I never set out to be a role model. Um, but I'm proud that through me living my life and leading by example, people know that it is not inaccessible

for them, because it truly is. And I don't want other people to even to have to wait on me to do something to think that they can do it. I say, charge your own path, you know, do what makes you happy, do what you're curious about, and then you'll find out who you are as a person. Don't even be better than me, I say all the time, don't stop where I stop. That's just a foundation shoot for the star. It's like literally someone become an astronaut.

Thank you. That's so powerful. I think it's because you didn't set out to do it. You didn't set out to be a pioneer necessarily or a role model. It just came from place of authenticity. That's what I think makes it more powerful and stronger connection with people. That's that's cool. Um, most interesting woman in the world. That's some title to have. Oh boy, could create some pressure in the way that a comedian feels that need to be funny every time he's around strangers. I mean, what

do you find most interesting about yourself? Not a not an easy question for a lot of people to answer, not at all. Holy smokes. I've never even thought about that, But if I had to right now, I think the most interesting thing about myself is that I have escaped a narrative that was created for me. I've I literally said I am this and I am not that. I'm not that. There's no way I'm going to allow anyone to pigeonhole me, to stereotype me, two think that I'm

not capable of something. I'm going to show up and learn what I'm supposed to do here with my time on Earth. And so I think the most fascinating thing about me is that I have literally created my own narrative without the guidance of anyone who's done it prior to me. The way I'm doing these things, researching and then getting to know inspiring folks like Kelly really is one of my favorite parts of doing this podcast. Another guest in the Inspiring Travel episode is Lea Abbamonte. Now

I know that I love to travel. I have a real curiosity for new places. But Lee is extreme, unquenchable desire to explore the globe. Didn't start out with a checklist, but eventually became the youngest American to visit every country on Earth and both poles. He tells a lot of great stories in this episode, a couple that we would advise you not to try, urge you not to try, including Lee's adventurous border crossing about ten years ago. Yeah.

So back in UH eleven, I had been to about a hundred hundred ninety or so countries, and there's a hundred ninety three. So I went on this big trip and I was going to go to some of the more romantic destinations like Somalia, Algeria, Sudan, and Libya, And at that time I was able to get to three of those four. And then the Arab Spring happened and Libya was no flies on all of a sudden, you know, all the drama that went on down there, and I

wasn't able to get there in March. When I went so in August, I got an email from a guy I know in Cairo and he's like, Yeah, I think you can get into the border of Egypt in Libya and kind of sneak in there because there's nobody guarding the border. Basically, I was like, okay, cool, And I literally got on a plane at New York and just flew to Cairo and then flew out to this remote desert outpost called Mercer Mutro, which no one's ever heard of.

It's about three hundred miles from the border, right And I get there. I have no idea what I'm gonna do. And I literally had like five thousand dollars in my pocket, and I figured I was gonna have to pay somebody something.

And uh, I like, don't speak but three words of Arabic and I get off the plane and I had no idea, and I'm like, this guy over here, he's wearing a like, uh, you know, a sport coade with our Libyan rebel of Pelpans, so he maybe he speaks English and go over to him, so do you speak English? He goes yeah, and I go Here's what I'm trying to do. And he looks at me like I got seven heads. He's like what what you want to go into Olivia? Like what? And uh? And I was like,

can you translate to the taxi driver? Haven't drive me to the border. And he goes, well, then what are you gonna do. I'm like, I have no idea. And then he goes, all right, listen, kid, you're gonna come in the car with me. My brother is coming from to Brook, Olivia with a minivan and we're gonna drive across the border and we're gonna smuggle you in. And I'm like, oh, that sounds great, man, awesome. Yeah. It didn't even occur to me that this was weird, right,

It was just like so excited. And so we go fast forward three hundred miles. Okay, we're at the border with these two Olibyan guys who've never met before. And we're in line at the border. We leave Egypt and we're in line at the border of Olibya, right uh,

you know, seemed normal, seemed normal, seem normal. All of a sudden, we're about three or four cars back, about thirty ft from the actual like border itself where you show the passports, but on the other side of the border this big truck of Chinese smugglers trying to smuggle fake Marlborough's cigarettes from Libya into Egypt because they didn't

want to have to pay the Egyptian tariff. Because there was no government in Libya, they thought they could smuggle it in without having to pay, So, you know, it seemed like a good idea, right. The only problem was the Libyan rebels were at that point controlling the border where they hadn't been I guess prior, and they started

arguing about the payment blah blah blah. There was about fifty Chinese guys on top of this truck and then there's probably you know, fifteen or twenty Libyan rebels and they're all armed, and then these guys just start shooting

at each other. And on the other side of the border, we're away and all of a sudden, the car gets hit three times and I'm in the back of this car with these people who I don't know, and I'm like, go, go, go, you know, and uh go and go and go where they're firing like into the like like just I'm like back yeah, and the guy like slams on the on the gas like backwards, hits the car behind him like peels out like basically into the desert about a half

a mile I think. And meanwhile, I'm like ducking, but I'm also kind of like looking through the window, you know, to see what the hell is going on, and uh, you know, we sat there for about three hours, right and you can see, like you know, there's like dead people, and uh, all of a sudden, the guy goes to me, Okay, I think we can go now, and I'm like, okay, man, sure. Here I am in the middle of no man's land

between Egypt and Libya. And we go back in line and we're about you know, four or five cars back again, and I goes, okay, give me your passport, and I was like, okay, here's my passport. And they whispered some stuff to his his brother in Arabic and then he turns to me and he goes, all right, kid, here's the deal. And I'm like okay. He goes, You're gonna be a humanitarian dentist going into Libya to do dental work for the Libyan people. And I'm like, dude, I'm

not a dentist. Like what are you talking about. He goes, it doesn't matter. Nobody in Libya has straight teeth, so just smile, points your teeth and that's like all you need to do. So I give my passport. We get to the to the border. He whispers some stuff in Arabic to the other guy. Guy looks at my passport, looks at me, and he smiles and he points to his teeth and he just goes, welcome to Libya. And I did the exact same thing, and then I was

in Libya. I mean there's about three different spots there where Number one, they said sneak across the border before you left. You start good idea. Then you hear the plan and it's like us the word smuggle you in and you were still all in for that. And then there's been carnage at the border and you gotta loop back and go in there. Did you stop to think what happens once you get inside Libya? I mean, the goal is seeing it in the country. What the hell

happens once you crushed the border? I mean, isn't that still a really dangerous place to be? A hundred percent? But I figure, you know, I've been in war zones before, like I've been in Iraq, I've been in Afghanistan, had been in uh Iran, Somalia, Syria. So yeah, man, So I was like, Okay, I got this. I just got to get across and then I can kind of figure it out. And this guy really seemed to know what

he was talking about. It was like a sixth sense, Like I felt comfortable with the guy even though I didn't know him. I could tell like he knew what he was doing. It turns out the guy's like a u N dissident, right. He hadn't been in Libyan forty one years. Uh, he left when Gadaff he took over, and he hadn't seen his family, and that long he was going back for the first time. It's like nineteen, you know, sixty whatever it was, and uh, and I'm like,

oh my god. And then he insists, like did I come to his family's apartment and like, you know, meet everybody, And there was like fifty people in the apartment and none of them even cared that he was there. They all just wanted to like stare at me and like take pictures and like practice their angler ask me questions. It was like crazy, man, It's like one of those moments if you don't put yourself in these absolutely ridiculous situations, you don't understand. But it was just like one of

those moments where you felt like humanity was okay. You know, well that's a great, happy ending. But did it ever occur to you you might be that guy that pops up on CNN American citizen taking a hostage and now you become the focal point of some international incident, you know, and they have to try get you out of there. Oh yeah, I thought about that a few times. It wasn't This wasn't the only time I thought that might happen.

So yeah, but I mean, in hindsight, it was like stupid, obviously, But at the same time, it makes a good story to be chapter one of my book. And uh yeah, it's it's fun to tell. Lee tells a whole bunch of other great stories in the episode, including the highlight of his adventure travel career, reaching the South Pole on his second try. It was enough to make me contemplate a trip to Antarctica. You never know ideas like that are to be pursued, I think, but travel and adventure.

Another topic that has always interested me is brotherly bonds. They're strong, they're sturdy, but they are complex. I have a younger brother, Drew. My dad was one of four brothers. Have always been fascinated and the stories told by my two guests, Patrick McEnroe, one of three brothers, and also Nathan Followell, who's younger brothers Jared and Caleb, along with first cousin Matthew, make up one of my favorite rock and roll bands, Kings of Leon. Here's a sample of

Nathan's storytelling. It's a powder keg because you know exactly what to say to get it to whatever level you wanted to go to. And you can also you get away with it because what are you gonna do? Not play a show that night? Are you gonna go? Okay? So you quit the band. I'll see you at Thanksgiving and at Christmas and at Easter, and like there's no escape. We're Hotel California basically and in the flesh and check out, but never leave you. Yeah, so that's how how it is.

I heard. Sorry you guys got after each other, though, was it was hazard duty to try to break it up, right, because that's just what that's what that's what brothers are about. That's what we did. I'll remember one night we had we bought a farmhouse out on a bunch of land so we could just play horse shoes and build bompires and goof off. And I had a friend, We'll say, a friend came and stayed with me for a couple of nights and me and Cable got into i mean

a bruiser. He smacked me on top of the head with the pants, split my head wide open. Luckily she was a nurse, so she whatever fixed me up. And so the next day I was like, thank you so much for you know, help me out Last night with my I know, she was packing our bags and I was like, where are you going? She's like, you guys are fucking crazy, she said, I'm getting the hell out of here. Like she said, you seem like a nice and that guy, but outsiders aren't ready for that. And

you step in there. I mean, you know, I mean even your crew who witnessed relationship, right, I mean it was even tough for them. Sometimes you as close as that bond is a bandon a cruise, a tight bond, but it's still not like like the brotherly bond. Right. So I don't I don't. I wouldn't want to be the person that had to decide which brother I was gonna restrain to stop this fight, because then you've got the other brother now has two freehand. It's just gonna

go to town on you. You can have all that love in your heart for that person that can be turned to anger just like that because they know what button to push, like having siblings. You know, Okay, we're at about a two right now at this argument level. Now I could kick this up to a ten right now, or we can go to five. You know, hang out there? Are you a little more than like work our way up?

Or so? I think it's the passion, more than anything which can make a brother love a brother, give up their life for them, or take a brother's life, you know. I think that's the whole thing of it, is the passion part of it. You guys have a kind of another level when you're on stage and it's clicking and things are going well and everybody's kind of locked in, and you look around at your your cousin and your two brothers and there's that kind of shared feeling like, yes,

this is this is one of those shows. Describe it. That's like with the power of the bond that you have so deep um oh my god, hitting a smooth three would that you don't even feel that it just jumps off the face um of the club. Just the best part is the show within the show, because you've got to show you're playing for everybody else, but there's

also a show within the show of the bandmates. It could um be a show of significance to us that a place that we liked or had a bad show the last time we were there, and we really want to like ramp it up this one. But that moment, the only way I could describe it is I've been in a bad car wreck and they say everything goes in slow motion, and so I have experienced that before where it's that crazy, just feels like you've got all

the time in the world. But to be on stage and have people out there singing every lyric and you catch that special moment where all four of your bandmates are just locked in in that one moment, and I just that's like the show within the show. It's like everything kind of goes in slow motion for a little bit. And then after the show someone will always bring that up of that, like how cool that was when you were just all connected. You learned that every time though,

because you're a perfectionist. You guys are driven, mean, you guys are so hungry to be excellent. You need to know that about this band. These guys are driven and hungry. So that means you put yourself to a high standard. And when you screw it up on stage or somebody else screws it up on stage, you have it takes time to figure out that I'm not going to strangle my brother right here in front people. Yeah, totally, And

there's that. It's that it's such a great feeling though, walking off when you when you've had a show and everybody knows you've had a show, and maybe one or two other guys have to mess up here are mess up there, But walking off, I mean you look like Connor McGregor walking to the van, like just cocky and ship and like, all right, who wants to talk about tonight show? I'd like to apologize absolutely nobody for that show.

I've been there. I've been there a post show. One of the more disorienting experiences of my life is when um, your younger brother gave me a kiss on the mouth, uh backstage at Hyde Park, shortly before he did the same to John mcinro. John and I were hanging out back there, so I Caleb just planted the one on the third. Okay, I guess. I guess this is these guys being euphoric after a great show or something. That's a that's a sign of a good that's the sign

of a good show. Um, and you're lucky that he kissed you before Johnny Mac and wund oh, Yes, quite a night in London. That was just the beginning of it. By the way, speaking of mcenrose, my good buddy and colleague, Patrick offers great insight and his relationships with his older brother Mark and of course Johnny Mac. I read one time that you said that when you took the court as a young player, photographers would come around and here's

the next young McEnroe. John, being seven years older, had a reputation, and you had to be aware of photographers hanging out by the court when you're playing junior matches, waiting for you to smash a racket or throw a racket or act out. That's a heck of a lot of pressure for for a kid that agent, you would you didn't want to give them the satisfaction, you said, yeah, I mean, that was something that followed me from the time. Let's see, John was when he burst onto the scene

at Wimbledon as a teenager. So I was probably about ten around that time. He was seventeen eighteen, um, so if really from the time of all going through junior tennis, Chris I was known as the brother of you know, the brother of John, and I was a great junior tennis player. You know, I was number one in the in the East for many years. I was one of the top players in the country. So I was already, you know, a legitimate player. But that specific incident I

can remember like it was yesterday. Chris I was at the National Clay Courts in Nashville, Tennessee, playing at the club, and we used to stay on campus at the Vanderbilt Universities where we would stay during the tournament and I was It was a sixth seen and unders, and I was, you know, not the top kid in the country, but I was, you know, probably top ten and top fifteen in the country. And I was cruising along the draw and it was maybe around a sixteen or quarterfinal match,

and I was up six to five, no problem. And in the early in the second set, this photographer walked down to the court. You know, there were no rules or anything. It was just standing right there on the side of the right during the match. You know, yeah, this is just there was no rule, you know, you just call your own lines. And even though it was a national that's the way it was. So the guy's just sitting there and I'm like, this is weird, like

not taking any pictures, nothing. And then it's five too in the second the other guy starts making a little comeback five three five four five. All I'm starting to get a little frustrated, a little piste off. And sure enough, I you know, as I said to you earlier, because I was a bit of a whiner as a kid, whining dropping my racket, I can't believe. And all of a sudden, I heard take tons of pictures being taken

sort of got my attention. I didn't really put it together yet, but you know, I was obviously aware already by that point that you know, I was being watched a little more close then the average kid in the national junior tennis turn. Sure enough, the next I ended up winning that set seven in the tie bring. So I won the match, and the next day, you know, in in the middle of summer, it was a pretty big deal for tennis. Nashville that had a big tournament.

So with on the cover of you know, the paper, the Tennessee and big local newspaper, and it had a cover and the cover of the sports section, the title was me making a face throwing saying oh brother, oh brother, at that yeah, And the caption was like, you know, Patrick mcuno, a younger brother of John showing off his

temper or something like that. So when you saw that that that caused a change in your behavior or you would you have done that anyway, but that that kind of shaped you at a young age, is like I'm not going to give people what they expect. I think it definitely shaped it to some extent. I think if I grew up with the name Patrick Fowler, you know, or Patrick Smith that I probably would have been more vocal because I was I was pretty um, you know,

I would get into it. But I think over it definitely shaped it because my dad used to say to me all the time, you know, this was the time when John was number one in the world, that he was dealing with you know, the Super Brad and Wimbledon and getting lots of attention because of his obviously his play, but his attitude and his temper. And my dad used to always say to my son, you know, you don't want to deal with that. Look what John has to

go through. You don't you know? There are people are watching you more closely than anybody else, which is true. So I think it definitely, as I said, my natural personalities to not be quite as as intense as John, which is probably why I wasn't quite as good as John. Maybe a couple other reasons to natural town, speed, et cetera. But I think it definitely helped shape, um how I developed, you know, from my middle teenage years into you know, being a college tennis player and then go on on

the tour. The episode called True Grit we hear from my ESPN colleague j Billis and the Black woodow a pool Jeanette Lee. Now Jay offers tools from mental toughness from his bestseller In His Own Life, tells lots of great stories, and Jeanette, well, Jeanette's just remarkable. There needs to be a feature film done about her life, the NonStop physical and psychological challenges she overcame to become the

best pool player in the world. This story that she tells is one of the craziest examples of grit and guts that have ever heard in three and a half decades of speaking to athletes. I remember one tournament, the Gentleman Jack's Dallas Shootout, where on the final day I was I was waiting for my match to play against someone, and then right as we were waiting, it was like

ten minutes before we got called. Our match got called up, and I'm standing by the terment star and damn right through my body and it literally knocked me to the ground where I would get these spasms, these back spasms, and it would just that the intensity. And this was before um my surgeries in two thousand one, and it was so bad that I couldn't even see straight, and I was embarrassing, and all these people over me, and they were like calling and called the you know nine

one and do all this other stuff. And I was like no, no, no, no, just give me a minute. And I was explained, no, this this happens, and it was it was normal. My ex husband saught, I mean it, it happens a lot. Is I go through these pains, but it hadn't happened at a tournament and I generally hit it and so it was shocking. And I said, just can you guys get me out of here because I was embarrassed. All the fans and everyone was watching.

So finally, um they carried me to a bathroom and they get me a chair and I put my legs up so I can rest my back, and I remember my ex husband. I said, I don't know what to do. Who I can't see straight. My eyes just kept tearing. And he said, this isn't worth all this, you know, it's just a tournament. Just let's go home. You've done enough for your back. And I was like, you know, one minute, I'm I'm calling him and I'm whining and crying, and then he's telling me that it's not worth it.

Just quitn't come home, and I and I was like, what, I'm not quitting. It's like, I didn't call you to tell me to quit. They're gonna have to peel me off that pool table now, the lah and he was like, well, that's what I thought you would say, but I just wanted to make sure you heard yourself say it. And he was like, if you can get down in pain to miss that ball, then you can get down to make that ball, and just make every time you put your body through that, make it count. Make the ball.

And I remember just having them carry me up and then me being called in and I had like four minutes left on the shot clock, because you know you

only have fifteen minutes before they forfeit. You did the table and I leant holding this pool que as my cane and the other hand on the table, and I walked um and played against Lena and bending down and the pain had tears so much that I had to like windshield wipe my eyeballs and there were drops of tears on the pool table as I got down, and I'm blinking, and I just made ball after ball and I beat Lena Survick from Norway, Gerda Hofstetter from Austria,

um all Send Fisher and then Karen Core in the finals to win that tournament. And it was the first and last time I ever cried out of pool match. But I literally made that last ball, and the whole time feeling embarrassed and read and worrying about what people were thinking, if I'm taking this or mean I had just such. I was so insecure. Actually, if I think about it, and and one by one, and I could

never have been more proud. There is no amount of prestige or money or glory that anyone could dawn upon me than me fighting through, fighting through that at every moment. And and you know, I've just done that for most of my career. But I remember that being so hard that my legs were like jello. I could hardly hold myself up because the pain it makes somehow it affects my legs. I don't know. I just get weak. And

that that is extraordinary. I've covered a lot of sports, and thirty plus years, I've never heard a story like that, tears of pain dropping onto the pool table, but fighting through that, I think you are certainly entitled to feel proud about that. We close out our season. One highlight reel was some insper ration on how to train, eat, breathe, and recover smarter no matter what your fitness level or

your ages. By two guests in wellness Wisdom, Gabby Reese and Desmond Howard, each share their passion and their unique ideas for living well. Both of them turned fifty last year, which nobody can believe. I didn't feel great about turning fifty. How did you approach it emotionally and physically as that date was getting nearer? And then when it hit you know? I I actually, to be honest, I remember forty being a lot more uncomfortable for some reason I don't know

than fifty. And and I also think that between forty and fifty I had a lot of things happened, especially as a parent, that really kept me focused on things that were really important, but also weirdly with a new level of surrender. If I might say this, like, you get to certain places in your parenting where you, uh, you you learn to surrender, But you know it's like almost everything, um is okay, I'm gonna work hard and do the best I can, and like, what are you

gonna do past that? And the other thing I have learned that I think is really important is not to spend too much time on things that are so out of my control, like I'm not going to stop time. And so one thing I've really tried to do a lot of in my life is when I really know I can't really change it, or it's something that like New Yorkers would say, it is what it is, right, it's like, what are you gonna do? You're gonna torture yourself. It's like, no, could I be my most badass self

right now? Let's go. And the other last thing, too, is I'm always reminded I can't be younger today, but in some weird way, there's something I could do to be better, for sure. But yeah, I wasn't like, also, let me frame it up and not. I wasn't like, oh my god, isn't it awesome? I'm fifty. I was like, WHOA, that's kind of weird when that? How did that happen? Been. If someone is not predisposed to accept all this, they don't see immediately the value. Let's say they've been sedentary.

Let's say they may be given up hope on being fit and well at whatever stage their life, then this is complicated. Is you everybody is different? But is there a an overarching pep talk that you would boil down for someone in that position. I think it's you know, listen, I always say this, if if I say to you, oh my gosh, you need to move and you need to eat, well, I can. I can show you how

to do everything. I could lay it out for them, ap I could even take you, but until you figure out why it's important to you, until it becomes a

value to the individual person. So what I would first say to somebody is, Okay, do you think you need to do that because you think you're supposed to want to do that, or do you understand the value the value of taking care of your health and things like that, um, And then getting them to their whether it's for relationships or what have you write and then it's just reminding them just a little at a time. It isn't about taking the whole thing and going to the top of

the mountain. It's going hey, listen, today the best we got is a fifteen minute walk, and we take out our worst eating habit just want not stop eating everything. Just take the one thing that you do that you know you is really the worst thing and eliminate that and just start there. Um, and then and and then remind people that we do need like our brothers and sisters to to schedule with us to help us be successful. That if you're going to do it, you really have

to create a small plan. Um. But I always am curious with people, and I say, like, you keep your houses clean, you clean your cars, you give your car the right fuel. Ultimately, at the end of the day, besides our relationships, the most valuable thing that we own

is our health. And I don't know if it's like having been an athlete where you get injured and you're like, I don't even know if I can sit on the toilet on my own and walk across the room because of my knee or my this or my back that you like, I don't need to lose that to understand, Um, that it's but it's seed. But see it's a value to me. That's why I do it. So really it's

got to start there. And when people don't have hope, UM, I think it's the time when you lean in, when you're just not sure, but you know it's the right direction. The whole thing is, and this is true to life, is how do we look inside of ourselves be honest with ourselves say Okay, I could probably do better, I could probably do more, I could probably push myself more. And also to remind people that we are the ones that create the limitations. I do it to myself. I'm

not different than anyone else. I'm my own worst enemy. I'm the one who creates these boundaries because I'm afraid to try something new, And just to remind people that, you know, being willing to try something new and having, you know, when they even talk about neural plasticity, trying these new things, it's like, you're never going to regret that. And also put yourself in environments where people are supporting

you when you're doing something new. And finally from a good buddy, Desmond Howard, who followed up a glorious career at Michigan and with the Packers by falling into a period where he sort of lost motivation in his training and indulged a massive sweet tooth before turning things around. He's offered inspiration with the hashtage at fifty one being his number with a Mazon blue It is a milestone. And I guess in my forties I started to prepare

myself just physically for being a healthier person. And it actually it started before I got in my forties. I was about thirty nine years old, thirty nine, and I went to the doctor and his regular checkup, and when I got my blood work back, the doctor told me that my cholesterol was starting to creep up. My my L d L numbers were starting to um creep up

a little bit, and he wasn't comfortable with that. So obviously, most doctors, as you know, they want to put you on some type of pill to control it, and I was against that. So I decided to just try to alter my eating habits. Um. You know I have a sweet tooth. Um, I'm guilty of that. I have a sweet tooth. At that point, I probably could eat a dozen Crispy cream doughnuts, you know, within the matter of a couple of hours, and I even think twice. Um, So I knew I had to give up that type

of of of of sweet. I would monetary everything is good in moderation for me, So I wouldn't eat does if I would still get some donuts. I was there those days when they just delivered those donuts. You you were a notorious doughnut eater. So on college game Day. They would know that and here would come this box of doughnuts. I'm thinking decimans gonna share. Now, that was basically for you exactly. You remember those days, oh man.

So how tough was it to say, Hey, I'm getting this from my doctor, I'm taking this seriously, I'm gonna make a fundamental change and how I'm taking care of my body. You know, it wasn't very difficult. Um. The challenges came later on when I would travel with game Day that those were the really challenges for me. Um as fur as. Like I said, I didn't stop cold turkey. I was going to eat though nuts. I just wouldn't eat them as often or as as many, um so,

but I still got a sweet tooth. So I just started to practice the whole philosophy and everything is good in moderation. Um. But then traveling with game they that became the challenge for me because you're going to some of these small college towns. They don't have the best options as far as trying to eat healthier, and and that's what I was doing. I was I was on the quest eat healthier. So keeping that type of eating habit consistent became the challenge and then you get the

big dinners. You know, we would go out to dinner and then I mean it's like it was like a king's um spread. Sometimes we would go out Friday nights, but there and just sitting there and watching certain members of our crew just go at it. You're not gonna name herb streets name one. At sixty, how do you think that will feel different ten years from now? Will you be able to do the same things with the same intensity or will you have to make adjustments. I'll

tell you what the funny thing is. I thought about that too, I really have. And you know, because for me, it's a lifestyle and I want to continue this lifestyle for the next ten, fifteen, maybe even twenty years if I if I can. And you know, we talked about cycling earlier. And when I'm on my bike, you know,

I see people much older than myself. I see people who look like they're in their sixties, and you know, and they're riding, maybe not at the same speed, but at least they're out there doing something, and that encourages me, uh in more ways than once. I know I can do that as far as lifting is concerned. Hey, no, more of the heavy weights. You have to decrease the intensity, maybe lower the weights, but increase the reps. That's always an option. But I do continue. I do plan on

continuing this lifestyle. UM, still eating healthy, um, you know, drinking my my juices and my teas. Uh. I'm not gonna get away from my my my ment and my ginger teaes and my macha. So I do think I'll be able to continue this for at least the next ten to fifteen years. Well that's it. Help you enjoyed our highlight reel for season one, and I really hope it wet your appetite to go back and check out

some of the complete episodes. It short took a lot of work to curate them down to this highlight reel and my sincere thanks to a producer Jennifer Dempster and to Jason Whitehealth for his editing skills. Now season two is highlight Reel is coming up very soon. Guests like Matthew McConaughey, Cheryl Crow, Eddie, George Kirkurb's Weekly, Kelly Mike Mills, Mike Terko, and many others. Very soon after that, we're

back with brand new episodes for season three. Lots of compelling topics and great guests, so invite you to subscribe and leave feedback and rate, review all that stuff, and I'll talk to you very soon