REINVENTION

things about how to work through them. Eddie George was an All Pro running back for the Titans and Heisman Trophy winner at Ohio State who dove into stage acting. He's already played some of Shakespeare's most epic characters and started in Broadways production of Chicago. So there's a lot of pressure, and I'm thinking, yeah, you know, they're going to come see what a football player is doing on this stage and if he can actually has the shops

to do it. So it's very similar. The energy every night, every every single night, in every performance on Broadway is definitely like the Super Bowl. There's you don't there's not a regular season game on Broadway every night, He's a super Bowl night. Clinton Kelly is a beloved Emmy winning TV host from t LCS What Not To Wear to the Chew on ABC and now h G t VS Self made Mansions, and he's the best selling author of

five books. I think that knowing what you want um and having a plan on how to get it is really powerful. I think that you have to really ask yourself, what do I want from life? Am I even close to achieving that? And if not, how can I get there? And so then you have to ask yourself, are all of my behaviors serving that purpose, like the moving me toward that goal? Or are they moving me away from

that goal? And I felt like I am slowly feeling my goals slipping away from me because I just am afraid. Like that sort of boils down to it. Both Clinton and Eddie have frequently taken stock and emerged, reinvented, and recharged. I first met Eddie the week he won the Heisman Trophy. In twenty years later, he returned to New York for his Broadway run. So Eddie, five years ago Heisman Trophy presentation, a video comes on showing you rehearsing for Chicago and

getting ready to start on Broadway. Coming out of that piece, the expression on the face of your HAIs Brothers, they could not believe the guy they knew as a great football player, had the bravery and the cajone is to do what you were doing. Did you sense in the room how blown away these guys were by this career pivot you had made. Yeah, of course, Um, you know some of them were like, oh my god, he's wearing leotards in a two two? Uh, oh my god, he what is he? What is he doing? Now? You know

I got a sense of that. But um, they were, man, they were in awe. I think, yeah, somewhere in all somewhere, like you know, I looked over at the ball coach. He was like, you know, he's rocking his chair with this like look of bewilderment, like that, really is he really doing that? He asked me later, he says, did you really sing? Like do you? I was like, yeah, I'm doing it all. You know. It's like there's no there's no stand there that comes in and doesn't talk

about yeah yeah Steve. So you know it was you know, to see their expression was priceless. But prior to that, Chris, I've been studying acting and um been on stage uh seven eight years before that. You know, Uh, some of my worst moments where when they didn't see it, you know, UM and auditions and UM being on stage and forgetting my lines and making stuff up on the fly and going backstage, not wanting to go back out there ever

again in life. But I had to must up to strengthen the courage to to do that and trust that the words were in there. And that's just a part of process, the process of anything, you know, UH, playing sports. You know, earlier in my career at the Ohio State, UM, I had some great success. Uh scored three touchdowns in the ESPN Game of the Week against Sarrah Houston, UM, and only two weeks later to fumble twice in Illinois or opening game. And that was a struggle and I

had to be defined and find myself there. So UM, it's it happens in cycles, I believe. I think, UM when you when I when I made the transition to be to acting, it was not seamless. It was not easy. It was not like, hey, I have this this great talent. I have to develop it and I continue to develop it like any other muscle. So it was it was daunting. But you know, for for me to be you know, show my hysman brothers five years ago what I was

doing I felt confident at that point. They say, hey, you know what, it doesn't it really doesn't matter what you think, come and check it out. And I mean at that point I just didn't care more. Well, no one steps on stage and Broadway or anywhere else in showbis without paying their dues, without stumbling and falling and embarrassing themselves. We'll get to all that. Your journey is amazing. The parallels you just drew between your football career and

the acting career are interesting to me. But I do want to go back to the moment when you realized football was was nearing the end and you were gonna have to pivot. Great years in Tennessee, Pro Bowls were Kie of the Year, Super Bowl, you went to Dallas. I believe was just for one year, and the end maybe came earlier than you thought, maybe came in a different way than you thought. When that moment arrived and you had to face that it was ending and I

had to figure out something else to do. What was that moment? What did that feel like for you? Oh? Well, it's felt um like I was in the twilight zone a little bit because what I've known for so long, how I prepared for each season. How I m got my mind right for my training in the different phases of getting ready for NFL season or football season. I've been doing it my entire life up to that point. And I was thirty one, and um, when I once I realized that that my playing days were done, it

was it was a gut riching feeling. I mean, I saved my money. I had a roof up from my head. I wasn't fearful in that regard of of being financially broke, but it was like, oh damn, you know what's next? Or really, you know who am I? What was that moment? What was there a point where you realized in a game or a practice that wow, um, this is I'm not long for this and this is not how I want to go out, but I may not have my

my choice. Yeah, it was, Uh it was. It was a cold day in November in Dallas practice and um Tony Romo was the scout team quarterback at that time, and I was on scout team goal line, scout team running back and I remember thinking as he's calling out the play, I'm like thinking to myself, my god, I want to hisman trophy. I was the face of a franchise, all the accolades, all the accomplishments that that I've accomplished in my my career. And I'm thinking to myself now

reduced to a gold line Scout team running back. I never played scout team in my life. And he says, mixed the call and break bread break. I didn't get the calls, and I wasn't thinking. I was like, oh my god, Okay, what am I gonna do here? I can't stop the drill. I'm already in the dog house and build ourselves, so I gotta figure it out. I said, Okay, I'm a I'm a savvy veteran. If he opens up right, I'll go right. To go up left, I'll go left.

So he opens it right, I go right, and it continues to go right and hands the ball off and I'm with the wrong way and I screwed the drill up, and Parcels screams out at the top of his lungs in front of everybody, George, get the f off my field. You're messing up my drill. And the time I'm thinking, you know, I was born in as a veteran, well respected that was extremely embarrassing, and I thought to myself, I got kicked off of scout team. My career is done.

And it was, and it was the harsh reality of of playing in in the NFL. UM. Prior to that, it didn't matter what I accomplished going into Dallas. It was how much value did I bring them? And the fact of the matter, I was a veteran. I cost more money than than the rookie. UM. I could have played a few more years. But the writing, the handwriting was on the wall. And and that's that's really what I kind of knew that the door was gonna shut

on me. UM. I had visions of of my retirement coming on a day where I played fourteen years, won four Super Bowls, UM, and I had my family and friends in the audience and some of the media and just official to my right and left and but adds to my left, God, bless your soul, UM, I have a chance to have that dramatic pause at the podium and ship a few tears and then come right back

and and talk about what's next. But but my career ended with me sitting at my kitchen table UH at Stewart, Glenn where I lived in Nashville with my flip phone, hoping from my agent to calling me with another opportunity. It's a little scary all of a sudden, you have to make this transition your your identity as an athlete, which is from your earliest memories. Probably it's in your literally in your DNA. It's who you are. And that's gone.

And now you've got a comfortable situation. You're grateful for that, I'm sure, but you also got a lot of time left in your life. And how did you come upon acting as a potential outlet for your creative energy and all that stuff? Well, I was getting at that time. I was still doing some stuff out in Hollywood to get opportunities to audition for a few pieces, and they weren't going well. I had no idea what the hell I was doing. He talked about embarrassing, It was rarely embarrassing.

Remember having my shirt off for for one audition and I'm punching air shadow boxing and they're asking me to make noises, and you know, I'm thinking to myself, is this is this what I'm supposed to be doing? It just didn't feel right, and I'm like, this is this is silly? I really need to get, you know, if I want to do this, to get the proper training for it. So I came back home, and UM, I sought out a couple of acting coaches here in town, and I said, hey, you know what, treat me as

a rookie. UH, start me off slow, you know, to show me what I need to learn. They gave me a ton of books to hogg in, um the uh the art of acting. UM, A bunch of just children's stories books, you know, just to start with character development, cold reads, and and just built from there. Um. And it was like three or four years of this three times a week of writing and listening and learning and getting on my feet and improv and all of that. And then it grew into the classics of Shakespeare and

Susie Lauri Parks and contemporary work. So it just kind of built over time. UM. With that, Uh, So I was willing to start over again because I knew the process of understanding and really appreciating the art. I just didn't want to be the athletes just coming in delivering

a couple of lines. I really wanted to understand what it meant to be an athlete, and through my experience, I took a lot of that um that pain that I experienced from playing football into some of the roles that I was that I was playing, and it really came across authentic and real because it was real, and uh, it was cathartic. You know. Acting is truly a cathartic experience is a very spiritual experience. It's it's telling the truth and imaginary circumstances and and that's and that's what

it is. You You are telling the truth of your own life, how you perceived the life of the character through that. So that's that's what I had to learn and relearn, and it provided some healing for me in terms of how my career ended. So it was truly

a lessing in the gift well. Life humbles us all in many ways, and the fact that you realized you had to embrace that humility, start from scratch and be willing to come in not as a celebrity athlete, but someone who was just starting to learn a new craft and it was gonna take everything you had to to be good at it. I think that's awesome. My dad was a theater director, so I grew up around this stuff, and but it scared the hell out of me. The idea of getting on stage and actually doing I love

the electricity of it. I saw the tension and him it was a part of our family went a production was going on. He was also a professor of theater art, so he's around kids all the time. But I was scared to death of take an acting class much. Let's get on stage. So I applaud you for doing that. So so you're taking on these roles. You're in Nashville at one point, and you get a chance to play Othello,

she has to play in Julius Caesar. So now you're speaking some of the great words ever written for this stage. I mean, speak of me as I am one that loved wisely but not too well. But by the way, before you kill yourself and Julius Caesar, I mean, this is just this is heavy stuff. Did you did you enjoy it? Sort of embracing that and realizing that you're taking on this this great tradition of these roles and go back forward to years. Oh my god, it was.

It was awesome. Um. I remember when I first fell in love with actually with Shakespeare on stage. Um, you know, my acting coach and a real friends. Look bless your soul. She tells me any time that I can go to see a play in New York City, every time I go to take a trip, whether it's for you know, for the Heisman or a business trip, make sure you go see a play. That's a part of the training of an actor. And um, I went to UH to New York at the time to go see uh Macbeth

and or it was a handle. It was Hamlet with the June Law. And I'm thinking, Okay, this is Shakespeare. I'm gonna say it's a great experience. I got my pillow ready, I got my line. I'm ready to knock out, you know, wake up second act and say brabo. Right, that's when I'm That's what I'm one wanted to do. But my wife is the same way. So we're in the audience and immediately, you know, the the stage transforms

into that world and the smoke comes out. And I promised you, Chris, I could not understand a single word they were saying, but based off of their language, based off of their the heightened speech, everything about it was transformed. I was transfixed. I was just just locked in and enchanted by it. And I was like, oh, my god,

this is really riveting. So once I got a kind of caught up my ear, kind of caught it with my with with the the with the words and what they were saying, I kind of understand now what was happening. I fell in love with it and did not falsely. I hung on every single word and the poetry and the body, the language athleticism of jew Law. I said, that's what I want to do. And I told my wife that. She was like, you can barely speak the

English language little alone Shakespeare. But that was the challenge and I supportive message, by the way. Absolutely. It was like, you can barely speak English, well, you know. But you go from being an audience member who was in awe of that to someone who believes they can do it. What what did it require of you initially to sort of believe that you could stay up there and play out, not just be an audience member marveling at it? Oh man? It well, it takes the first step of getting the

words in your mouth, of picking up a play. I would just behind me. I have, um, you know, the no fear Richard. The third, I have all my stuff just over my shoulder. Um. I picked up these DVDs on how to act Shakespeare. I worked with it on my acting coach day in and day out, will work on soliloquies and speeches and um, go through a play and and go through each and every single word and break it down and understand that first of all, to to to remember to remember the of the your lines.

It's and you don't remember them. It's a rhythm. Is I am a contamina? And you've got to know the rhythm is that I'm that, I'm that um that ump that up that I'm So it tells you exactly where the uh, the actor is in the emotional state. If that rhythm is broken, you can understand and that okay, there's something mostly going on here or or if it's not in the rhythm, I mean, it's just a certain rhythm that you that you uh, that you go by

and you get in your body. And uh. That was a lot of fun for me because now I can be the athlete that I was as a football player, and I can marry the two. You could overdo the comparisons, but there is a playbook and football there's a script and there's learning you know, the play on the page.

Two dimensional things. Then you've got to act it out on the field and understand the new one to that and the and the space to improv and where no two players in football right are the same right, And and for people who do know theater, they may the script maybe the same Shakespeare's words, you're probably not add

living those performance performance, but there's always these differences. What what did you love about that energy, that improvisation in the moment edie of being on a life stage that compared to football. Well, the beauty about stage is this, Chris, You're you're doing the same play, but each performance is different. You come to a different actor, you come to it with a different level of understanding who you were as an actor on the opening night, You're gonna be completely

different by the end of the run. On the closing night, meaning that you want to understand the story a little bit deeper. There will be there'll be epiphanies in the play as you're saying and we're like, oh my god, this is what this means because it's becoming true to the character. So it's it's not like you're saying the same words the same way the same blocking. The freedom is in the speech. So once you really understand what you're saying and why you're saying, what your motive is

in that scene, then it becomes something completely different. You're just not spilling out words is to get it out. You're coming with needing, You're coming with nuance. You're not you're not manufacturing the moment. You're not manufacturing tears. There could be a scene in there where it may trigger something in your life from you're thinking of your father in that moment for the character, and the same thing

holds true. It runs parallel, and now you're really getting into the crux and the new and the real nuance of the character and the truth of the character. So if you if you approach it, and I've approached it that way where I'm looking to learn something different about this character. Why and that's why I stayed in my script. I'm constantly looking and saying, oh wow, you know, why is he seeing this word here? You know, why is a fellow um using these words at this moment in time?

And what does it really mean for him? You know the weight that he's carrying, and you allow that that that energy to take over and trust it and and trust the words that they're going to be there. So yes, it's much like a play in football, where it's designed the excess and those supposedly Okay, you're gonna kick out block the fullbacks will go down a linebacker and now you want to you know, run for a dr touchdown. Sometimes to line back to me straight and maybe a breakdown.

You have to cut it back and didn't go eat. So that's that's the beauty of of of having sports and and theater in my life that I can relate to the two. The only thing is, I'm not Ray Lewis isn't gonna knock me out on the stage. That's that's it. Yeah, I mean, it's it's you're not trying to impose your will or have avoid having someone else's will opposed on you. It said, it's a much more

you know, subtle, fluid thing. An audience member is not supposed to see the preparation, right, they're not supposed to understand what's gone into what you just described. But Laurence Olivier others have said that you have to have the humility to prepare, to have the confidence to perform. But the second doesn't come without the first, and humility is required because it's a grind, it's not glamorous and it just takes hard ass work. So you you've done that,

You've you've fallen in love with Shakespeare. But that's not Chicago. That's not singing and dancing, right, So you get eventually, how do you get to the place where you're convinced that you can play the the sweet talking, smooth, charismatic lawyer Billy Flynn in Chicago. And I think there's three or four songs of tongue Friends of the Courtroom that's

still a lead from ShakespeRe. That it's different now it is, but you know, you talk about preparation, and ironically enough and my preparation in my early days of working with my my acting coach, Anna Maria, I had to sing lessons to help me with my voice, to help with range and and nuance, and to use my diet friend and not talk from my throat um, which I still do from time this time um. And we used to do vocal warm ups, really work on the on the

my voice. We used to sing songs and one of the earlier songs Chris was all I care about his love and she says to me in our like like maybe the first few times I've worked with her. She would get on the piano, a little short Italian lady, and she here and she has the little her glasses on looking at the music, and she would look I would hit a bot a note. She would look up at me. I'm like, I do something wrong, says no, keep going, you see I keep going to look up,

says you know what. You had a great singing voice. You would make a great Billy Finn. One day I said, woman, look, let's just get through all this. Okay, Let's just get through the workout, through the warm up, our our lesson, focus on. We have to focus on. I'm never want to sing well. In two thousand what two thousand fifty six was fifteen fourteen, two thousand and fourteen, I was doing the play here in Nashville called The whipping Man, and it was a very deep play by Matthew Lopez.

Look it up as well as really a hard hitting play that required a lot of emotion, was emotionally draining, was very dark, and in the middle of our rehearsals, I just remember thinking to myself, my God, in order for me to survive this, I got to see something like funhearted and just to break the monotony of this, to break the energy along behold Um. Chicago was in Nashville.

The traveling company was in town. So I was invited out by the president of Tea pak Um, Kathleen O'Brien, and her and her husband invite me out, and I go, and I went. Familiar with the play that I saw the movie with Richard Gears, so I have a general understanding what it's like, but I've never seen the acts performance on stage. So I go. I'm in the audience and I familie with the songs, like, okay, this is

kind of fun. And then it was time for Billy Flynner come, you know, and the girls come out and sas we what dimly give us Delly, this is the great opening, right and he hits the stage, comes out, does this deal? Does this song? I care about? His love does the scenes? And I was like, oh man, that that's it. That now that looks like fun, you know. I said, Now that's one day I'm gonna do that. So she hears me. She's like interesting, she says, well,

can you sing? Well? I took singing lessons before, so yeah, I can say I'll figure it out this well, I'm gonna call the White Slers in New York and get you an audition. I said, Okay, you do that at Long Behole. Two weeks later, she calls me back, Eddie, I got you in audition for to play the role with Billy Finley or for the Bielers. I'm like, really, when is it's just in two weeks. I'm like, oh, ship, I had to study. I hadn't worked on my voice

and them over maybe five or six months. So I'm tanis, but I gotta take this opportunity. So I worked on the songs. I get my acting coach, we listen to the music. I'm doing everything I can. I go up there in November of two thousand fourteen. I get my best suit, Chris, I get my my my top hat, got my suit on. I go in. There is Billy Flynn. I going to the Ambassador Theater. I walk out on an empty stage and an empty theater, the lights on me and total darkness, and I'm like, holy shit, I

am really intimidated. I'm thinking of all the great actors that were on this stage, like I I don't belong here, you know, like Usher was on the stage and you know, just going down the list of who played this role, and it's intimidating to me, and I'm saying I have to sing, and I'm like, all right, just whatever you do is gonna be a great story with our getting or not. So the piano player comes out. He's very professional, he's warming up, you know, doing his thing, and I'm thinking,

should I be doing the same things here? So I just sit back a weak till the stunts is all right, Mr George, we're gonna start the top. All I care about his love? What key are you in? And I said, uh, I don't know. It's just pick and pick on. We'll figure it out. So we figure like you wore them up, and I just have a good time practic notes everywhere. I'm just laying it all out there and just doing what I have to do. And unbeknownst to me, Barry Weiss,

the Delete producer, was in the audience. He was like, way in the back and we're done about thirty minutes and go through the whole thing. He comes down scenarrous like this, Oh my god, that was magnificent. Let's do it. I'm like, really, really, you want to be on Broadway? And that's how I got to Broadway. Wow, Literally, it's not that longer number. So you go from standing backstage thinking what the hell am I doing here? I'm an impostor too. You're gonna be on Broadway like eight man.

I think people who have to pivot or reinvent reinvents a big word. Sometimes it's more subtle than that, but certainly what you did feels like a reinvention. Get worried about failure, and the fear of the anxiety can cause paralysis and exercise. I've heard people say, as you know, just if the worst thing that happens is I get a great story out of it, which is what you just mentioned that what do you what are you worried about?

You're gonna have a great story even if you're a miserable failure, right right, That's all I looked at it. I said, one way or another, it's gonna be an awesome story. I'll use it in my speech, you know. But when else do you have an opportunity to jump

into Shakespeare or jump into a musical on treaking Broadway? Man, So you got you got a seven a week run, and every night it must have been close to the feeling of being in the tunnel running out in the field when when you're in the wing, so that the tunnel and the wings of the theater had to be a little bit familiar to you. Just before that that live Juice is going. Not without a doubt, Opening Night was was magical because I'm underneath the stage and it's

like literally be a shot out of the cannon. The energy just waiting, and it's like, oh my god, odd. And that's where the fear really comes in because you're like, oh my god, Okay, I just prayed to God one that I'm making up the stairs clean. Two, I don't forget my fucking words rehearsals one thing, the line deal is completely tip. You're just thinking that everything will can get downstairs clean and now let it go. You know.

It's it's compared that to the super Bowl. Compare Opening Night on Broadway to that feeling, because the super Bowl has brought accomplished, brilliant Hall of famers, made them shaking their boots. What was it like? How would you make the comparison very very similar? Uh? You know, the energy, the nerves, because that's that's the that's the granddaddy of

them all. The Super Bowl and and UM, and going into that knowing that all eyes are on all the celebrities, UM, every everybody the world is watching this one game and you have sixty minutes to show what you can do. And the same holds true on Broadway. Every night you have people from all over the world from China, London, UM, Japan, UH, South America. Every single night there's somebody from around the world coming to look at this show, UH and their

critics in the audience. So there's a lot of pressure over you. And I'm thinking, yeah, you know, they're gonna come see with a football player is doing on this stage and if he can actually has the chops to do it. So it's very similar. The energy every night, every every single night, and every performance on Broadway is definitely like the Super Bowl. There's you don't there's not a regular season game on Broadway. Every night is a

super Bowl night. Every performance. So if you have eight performances that week, oh my god, it is you got to bring it every single time and and during and during my run, ironically, I I lost my voice after the first week. The first week and I had three more weeks to go, and I remember thinking backstage, oh I just blew. I just let everything hang out there. I have nothing else to give. And one of the veteran dancers, she says, oh, honey, you'll be fine. Here

take this number. Let's see my doctor. I'll see you on Monday. Gave me a shot, gave you just some stuff to my throat blow and behold, was right back out there on Monday. So there's nothing to fear. The show must go on though, right, I mean nothing go on? Then the show must go on. Did you get addicted to that when the run was over? And now that we've been on this period where there really is no theater sadly we're waiting for the whole theater community to

to kind of restart. How's that? How's that void been? What have you? What have you used to sort of failure your your time and kind of substitute for that energy? You know what? Chris? I really just restop to uh my my Chicago family. Uh today and yesterday, like man, what are you guys doing to hold up? And you know, just encouraging one another because it's been it's been tough. You know. I did that run. I've been doing the

run since then around different cities. Uh. In the country and and really the world, and UH to have that void not filled. It's as you find boredom. There's a little fear. UM there's all there's an opportunity to uh to work on new projects, to be creative, to write, UM, to work on business and some new businesses that I've been working focusing on. So I've been filling my time with reading U looking at a bunch of shows on Netflix.

I'm on Luke and right now, which is fantastic. UM. Me and my my wife and I UH spending time pouring into my son he's a wrestler and a football player, working out with him. UH and and really just just looking at other opportunities and trusting that that time will come. So you know, UM, just keep my jobs sharpen, you know, my to keep my things going and just continue to read and um is work on different characters when I came, and just just just trying to try to stay business same.

You got the wealth management company. You help athletes sort of transition to life after football by taking care of the money. I know, that's that's an enjoyable part. You like being a mentor, I think, and when you were speaking to people in the theater community. Besides the things you were describing, many of them also are facing a real desperation as a lot of people are in this country now, Eddie, when they are forced to pivot. The doors were slammed in their face and they don't really

see an open one right now. And the idea of reinvention again can be pretty scary for people. What what what do you say? Whether it's the folks that are in the theater or anyone else out there that is that is wondering, how the hell am I going to reinvent myself? I might not be stepping on a Broadway stage, but it's got to be something out there for meat, right, I mean, a lot of people are experiencing that um and and when one door closes, another one opens up.

And you have to have enough faith and courage to walk down and do that that opening, no matter what it is. You know, the unknown is daunting, it's scary, it's dark. You just don't know what's out there. But you have to have the courage to walk in that. And how you have the courage, you know, you have to have the guts and and I say this like a few of my speeches and guts. I break that

into acronym is G stands for the gump shition. You know, have the courage to take on a new venture or a new talent or something that's that that really speaks to your heart, that speaks to your soul. And then the understanding is putting in the actual work of it and gaining the knowledge and becoming a student of it and the reading and the preparation and find the right teachers for it, UM and becoming a true student of it.

The tease for tenacity is to persist without exception, take don't take no for an answer, look at no as an opportunity. UM, you know, to continue to push forward towards that. And they ask this for sacrifice is something you're gonna have to You're gonna have to give up something of your free time. Something is going to take away, whether it's your family or um the old ways used

to think, or whatever that may be. So I I tend to think you have to have the guts to be willing to say, hey, you know what I was in this profession, but that's not who you are. That's a job that you that you had. Now is taking your passion, your God given talent and finding out what is your true service the next phase of your life to the world and walking with walk with walk in that with confidence and in faith. As you begin to think about the reopening of the theater world and what

opportunities might be out there. What what roles are there? Freddie, George, what do you what do you think about? You know, partners Awards Washington, Hamlet and George Washington. Well, well Hamilton's, but Hamilton was Washington. That's that's that's my next one. My wife has been singing that NonStop since he wasson on Disney Plus about two months ago during COVID and uh, actually I went out for the role of it, didn't give it, but I think I'm gonna try to go

off with George Washington next in the Hamilton's. So that's that's my next goal. The father of our country. That's good. But obviously Hamilton's speaks to a lot of people because it's such fresh energy. But it's certainly challenging. I mean that those are those are challenging roles. You're not gonna uh find too many more shows that are more challenging to perform, you know, linguistically than Hamilton's is yeah, yeah, yeah,

that or another. Actually, I would let the Worship the Third to one day, one day with a little the Worship the Third. I did a reading of that about a year and a half ago and had so much fun being a villain. It was. It was fantastic, It was, it was, it was lovely, was juicy. And his words that he speaks, Oh my god, it's it's it's incredible of it. So um god willing I'll have an opportunity

to do that. What were the Eddie George of today, who has been through all these different chapters, these pivots to tell tell the Eddie George us in high school would never have dreamed that there was a life after a football and identity other than athletics, who would end up singing and dancing on the stage and feeling that

same fire and that same chart from it. I would tell him that, you know, football is just the beginning, my friend, to put your seatbull to want to get ready for one hell of a ride, because that's that's what's going to experience. And I think, you know, if I were telling some young kids that today is that sports in general is just a platform, is just the opening to whatever is next in your life. Who knows

what's next. Um, you have to don't. Don't don't be married to the idea of just being a football player. Football and we're basketball Baseball is just the avenue of what's next. You could be a great politician, you could be the president of the United States. You could be a doctor, you could be a lawyer, you could be

a judge, you could be an actor. Um, but stay open to that and and and embrace that, and um, don't fear it, you know, run to it, and and and really be open to learning and being transformed into into what's next and all and you and trust that you're gonna be prepared. You know, you've already gone through a process. You've already gone you already know what it takes the reaching mountain shops. So take the same blueprint and approach that craft with so much respect and embrace

it and grow from it. And you're going to get there a lot faster wherever that is, and you're want to understand a lot better. And that's what I was saying. I really appreciate Attie's wisdom. He was known as a great teammate and now as a generous CASTMATEE like a wait for theaters to reawaken and see what's next for him. Maybe that George Washington part in Hamilton that he's after. I've also known Clinton Kelly for a couple of decades to my wife Jennifer, but only found out in this

conversation that he just like me. It was a painfully shy teenager who worked hard conquering that to achieve the life he dreamt of. Well, Clinton, this is gonna be a lot of fun and also interesting because even though we've been friends more than twenty years and you and Jennifer are among the best of friends, we've had some great times. I still think I'm gonna learn something during this conversation about what makes you tick, and I think people are gonna find it very useful and helpful. So

I'm looking forward to it. Are you ready for that new level of closeness, Chris? But only zoom can provide Yes, let me open myself up to you. Well, there's been a lot of drinks in a lot of weird settings. I feel like we's been pretty open. But this is this is good. Interesting because you're use of the word reinvention. We were kicking around. Ideas for this episode really was the spark. And I know it's a favorite word of yours and it's important word for so many people right now.

So let's start with this. When you were just starting out on this life's journey, how did you imagine your life would unfold and how has what's happened been different from that. I had a pretty clear vision of what I wanted by life to look like from a pretty young age. Like I kind of knew that I wasn't meant for the suburbs. So that there's anything wrong with the suburbs, it's just it wasn't my cup of tea.

I always knew that I was meant to sort of live in the city and you know, go to fabulous dinner parties and and and travel the world and go to theater and museums. And that's really what I wanted from a very young age. And luckily, well maybe not so luckily, I think I had something to do with it. Um, that's pretty much the way my life has turned out. Like I got exactly what I wanted, um, and I'm incredibly grateful for that. But it was a journey to

get there. Like I you know, I think I've told you before and Jed, I was crazy shy growing up, like really really shy um from the womb all the way to high school graduation. It's just like it was something that was in me, like I just couldn't get myself to interact with especially my peer group, Like that's why it was nothing that I could do. Um. And then I realized at one point, I was like, I can't get all the things that I want out of life if I'm this shy. How am I going to

you know, talk to people at dinner parties. If I can't say hello to a stranger in the supermarket, you know, or I can't make a small talk with, um, you know, a buddy in high school, you know. UM. So I made a conscious effort at at from the time of you know, high school graduation to my first day of college to reinvent myself as a not shy person. I wasn't necessarily going for Gregarias, but I was like, I'm just not going to be shy. That that was the plan.

That's a pretty important early reinvention because it kind of sets the stage for lots of things. A lot of people would say, well, wait a minute, how can I just change a part of my personality because I decided that it would be a good idea that seems challenging to people, just like a lot of these reinventions in the professional realm seem initially challenging and would create fear and anxiety and all that stuff. Yeah, I think that knowing what you want um and having a plan on

how to get it is really powerful. I think that you have to like really ask yourself, what do I want from life? Am I even close to achieving that? And if not, how can I get there? And so then you have to ask yourself, are all of my behaviors serving that purpose, like moving me toward that goal? Or they moving me away from that goal? And I felt like I am slowly feeling my goals slipping away from me because I just am afraid. Like that's what it boils down to. It's like, you know, people change

for you know, people don't change. I would for two reasons, Like one is, you don't change it if you're happy, Like if you just love your life the way it is, there's really no reason to change, right, And then I think the other reason people change don't change is that like they're afraid they're literally afraid of change. And that is a very human response to change, Like we are wired to keep the status quo, Like that's what our egos want for us, Like do not change. If things change,

you might die. Um, And so that's why a lot of us are just terrified of change. I've heard you use the phrase reframe fear, which I think is great because, first of all, it acknowledges that fear exists. It's normal. It doesn't pretend you can just push it away and and move on without dealing with it. What do you mean by reframing fear in the context of reinvention? Yeah, well, really get to the bottom of what your fear is all about. Right, So, are are you really afraid of dying?

Or are you afraid of embarrassing yourself? Are you afraid of failure? Like? What does that mean to be afraid of failure? Um? So you have to ask yourself first of all, like what is the spear really about? Is it's fear or is it trepidation or is it anxiety? So that there's one aspect of that. But then also like the feeling of fear is not really such a bad feeling if you think about like sometimes you feel like you get the little um you know, that that pit in the that or that that feeling in the

pit of your stomach like I'm afraid. But that's also sometimes the same feeling you get when you're madly in love with somebody, you know what I mean. Like the physical feeling of fear sometimes isn't that much different than the physical feeling of love, you know, um, And so you have to ask yourself, is this really fear? Or am I actually kind of excited about this? Like fear and excitement are very close cousins. And I think the chemicals are the same. Yeah, the chemicals in the brain

are exactly the same. And and to think that, so like so many others you profess, you know, becoming comfortable being uncomfortable, because without without getting out of the comfort zone, most feel grow it is impossible. A reinvention is really difficult as well. So taking those initial steps, what what tools, what devices have you used, especially when you're starting out and you you don't have all this experience of these

successful reinventions to drop on. But when you're in that initial stage, well, I think that baby steps are probably the best way to do things, like um, I remember so when I first decided not to be shy anymore. Um, let's just don't want to take you back to what it was like to be me as a kid, Like I literally didn't speak in high school unless I was spoken to by a teacher, Like for four years. I never raised my hand to say I know the answer, or even ask a question if I didn't know the answer.

Like I just did not speak, um in my childhood. I did not speak to strangers period, end of story. Like there are a couple of kids on the block that I was friends with. It that's cool, but like, you know, I missed out on like playing all the pin the tail on the donkey. You know, I've missed out on all the pinatas and all that stuff that

kids were having fun with their birthday parties. I was sitting with the adult um talking about the you know, the deviled eggs and maybe they should have a little bit of finely mints celery in them, or you know, like talking about like, uh, the milkman coming to you know, to Janet's house on Wednesday, when the milk deliveries on Tuesday, you know, like like ship like that, like that that's the way I used to like live my life not talking to any of my peers, just two adults UM.

And then I decided like, Okay, I don't want to do this anymore. I go to college, right, and then I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to people. But I was terrified those first few days of of you know what's that called, um the first few days of college. So I'm terrified at orientation, like at the verge of

throwing up all day every day for orientation. Then my r A calls a meeting in the in the dorm and I go down into the dorm the lounge area, and there are some there are three girls sitting in a booth and one of the girls moves over so that I can sit down next to her. And I'm like, oh my god, she just moved over and I have to sit next to her. And I was like, oh my everything is in me as saying just just like say it, sit there, maybe say hello, and then not

say anything else. But she said hi, how are you? And I'm like, I'm good, how are you. My name's Clinton. Now this was a big deal for me at the age of eighteen, to say my name is Clinton. And she said my name is Cheryl, this is Judy, this is Amy. Um, and then we started talking and I was like, it was that little baby step of saying hi, my name is Clinton. That's that was the baby step. And then you realize, oh, I didn't die, Like that's you know, like maybe I can do this another time.

And then so I started just like saying hi to people, introducing myself. And that seems like dull for most people, is like, of course gonna introduce yourself. No, for me, it was a really big deal. But it was like one little step after the other after the other, like and um, you know, like accepting an invitation to a party was a big deal for me. Um. So I would say that that's the that's the thing that most

people could do pretty easily. Just find one baby step that you could take to move view closer to the dream of the you that you want to be. One baby step and see what happens. Like and I always play this, Oh here's another this is the thing that I love. I'm sorry, Chris, I'm there's a ramblin on here. Luckily you have an editor. I always play a little game with myself, which is what's the best thing that

could happen? What's the worst thing that could happen? Okay, that's It's pretty much a methodology that I use every day in my life just to a certain degree. Like when I whenever I'm pushing myself to do something I haven't done before, what's the best thing that can happen? When you say hello to a stranger? You might make a best friend? You know, Um, what's the worst thing that can happen? When you say hello to a stranger they tell you to you know, screw off? Um, you know,

I don't want to talk to you. Generally, what happens is something in the middle. Like every time, something in the middle is going to happen, Like maybe you'll just have a boring interaction where they say hi, you say hi, You part ways, But that's the beauty of life. Like the things on the extreme really really rarely happen. So do you this this is something you've carried on whether or not it's a question much later in life, after you've overcome your shyness. You should I start a fashion line?

Should I take this TV opportunity? Should I say no to this public appearance? Do you have this conversation what's the best and worst? Every time I have that all the time. That's what's the best and what's the worst? Is basically how I lived my entire life, Like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Okay, well that's probably not gonna happen. What's the best thing that can happen. Well,

that's probably not gonna happen to either. But you know, I'm pretty comfortable with all the stuff in the middle. The reinvention that kind of launched you onto the first of many popular, long running TV shows is interesting to me. Um, you had not yet sort of become someone associated with the fashion industry, and because Jennifer's involved, I know the

background of the story. You see a magazine cover, take a strong opinion, and boom, pretty soon that gets you working for that magazine, which gets you what not to wear, and the rest is history. But that that that lightning bolt moment was was really an unlike placed for a reinvention, right at a friends house, staring in a magazine, but

boom that happened. It was I guess somebody a friend of mine once described me as a frog on a lily pad, and for some reason, I know exactly when to jump when that next lily pad is about to just rise up to the surface, I seem to know exactly when to jump on it, which I don't know. Maybe that's the lack part of it, but you know that's only you have to jump off the lily pad in the first place and trust that it's going to

be there. So the story that you're referred to is, yes, uh, one random evening in Jennifer's old apartment on what was that third avenue? Um, you know, really changed everything the course of my life because I was working in trade magazines, which are basically magazines that people only in a certain trade would read like, um, you know it. Worked in a magazine called sports Style, which was a magazine for like the sporting goods industry that nobody had ever heard

of before. But I never worked in consumer magazines. Um, like you know, consumer would be like g Q or Vogue and all that stuff. So I mean Jennifer's apartment, we're having wine. Um, she's fixing or Derv's you know, she puts out it. She does a good cheese board, as you know. Um, so she's making a spread in the kitchen. I'm flipping through her magazines on her coffee table, and one is Marie Claire. And I'm flipping through Marie Claire and I'm like, literally, this is the craziest magazine

I've ever read in my life. Um. They had an article called how many men have you slept with this week? And they had all these women holding up big numbers like zero, one, three, And I was like, I need to work for this magazine. I need to do this from my living So I was like, I have no idea how I'm going to reinvent myself from a guy who's editing sports Style magazine to a guy who's editing Marie Claire. You know, a very well known you know,

consumer magazine had Fashion magazine, no less. So I wrote the editor in chief a letter saying, look, I don't know you from a hole in the wall. You don't me, You don't know me from a hole in the wall. I don't even know anybody who knows you. Like, there's no seven degrees of separation here at all. Six degrees of separation. But I promise you that if you agree to meet with me for fifteen minutes, I will bring you one hundred story ideas. Um. And you know, story

ideas are like gold in the magazine industry. So, um, you know, and basically she got a letter back from her assistant, you know, Glenda Bailey would love to see you. Um, let us know what time works for you. I came in with a list of one hundred story ideas typed out. Jen helped, you know. I think that we were having wine and we came up with a few together. Um that's like seven per minute by the way, that's that seven seven ideas per minute of the interview that you

were committed to. Yeah. Serious, I was in there like it worked. I mean to what degree has is like fake it till you make it been a part of it because you you got hired there, you got a name in the fashion industry. And then this this show What Not to Wear, which had been imported from the UK and now is being started in America. Boom. Clinton Kelly is the person to co host this show based on what you based on that leap you took to

get to the magazine. Yeah, I mean the concept of fake it ty and make it is interesting, isn't it? Because like what does that? What does that mean? Like what I didn't feel like I was faking anything? Like I really felt as though I was going to try my absolute hardest. I had like a kernel of you know, experience, and I was going to blow that kernel up into a giant bucket of popcorn just given the response, you know, giving the opportunity. So that's pretty much what I did.

Every time that new opportunity came up. I was like, I'm the right guy for this job. And I really believed every single time that I was the right guy for this job because I knew that I would work my ass off at every single job, like I just have it in me to like do the best that I can possibly do. So I didn't know a lot about fashion, but I bought every fashion magazine you know, on the news stands every single month. I read them

from cover to cover. I memorized them, um, you know, I bought like fashion encyclopedias, and I just would just do my homework. So at a certain point, I wasn't really faking it anymore, Like I was living the life like I had all the knowledge, um, and I had the ambition, and I had the work ethic. So that

was good to go. Your ability to connect with people in the audience, but guests is so tremendous is why you've been a great host in the topic, whether it's fashion or food and much more at the Chew and now it's um self made mansions, where it's home selections

and life self. It's the common thread as you're you're dealing with people and you're you're sort of connecting with them, but coaxing them to reinvent themselves, even though you have experienced doing it, is a whole another thing because the reinvention is not UM intervention right intervention, although what not to where the premise was was others trying to push

you in this direction. There has to be a reckoning within the individual right before there can be a reinvention and we can force it on you or really make you do it right. That is probably one of the biggest life lessons that any human being can learn. You cannot change somebody who does not want to be changed. That's it's just not going to UM. So once you wrap your head around that and you're trying to help people reinvent themselves, like you have to really ask them

do you really want this change or not? Um So, you know that cuts out a solid I'm gonna say fifty of people right there on on what not to wear it Like most of those people did not want to be changed, you know, they were in it just start about to be on TV or just to get some new free clothes, I guess. Um. But the people

who did want to change, that's exciting. That's what I love working with, you know, Like when you say to me, like I want a new lifestyle, like let's do it, like let's create it, Like let's let's throw away everything that you have right now and just start from scratch. Um, that's isn't it fun? Like that? I know it's terrifying some people, but I just love it everything. I would reinvent myself every you know, every week if I could.

But did you see getting new clothes for people or or in this case it's a new home and sell my mansions? Is that is that reinvention? Or is it is it some smaller component that leads to a larger kind of resh aping at their life or their outlook, because you would you'd hope that okay, here, here's five new pants suits rather than have different stuff to where it's going to change the way you feel about yourself, which is the most important. Himpotus to kind of change

your life. Right, Well, reinvention really is a spectrum, don't you think like you can? You know, people might assume that reinvention means like you are literally scrapping everything about your life and re emerging as a completely different person. That's, you know, that would be a very dramatic case of reinvention.

But I think that throwing out clothes that don't suit your purposes, and clothes that you don't really like, let's say, and then just buying five new suits that you really do like that reflect who you are as a person, is really a form of reinvention, you know. And when you buy a new house, you are reinventing yourself to a certain extent, you know, because you're like saying, this house that we're in now doesn't really work for us anymore, so let's find a house that does work for us.

That's that's a form of reinvention. So you know, that's like I said, of those baby steps, you can just go a little bit, you know, a new suit here, a new haircut there, you know, learning a new recipe today, learning another new recipe next week, thinking redecorating a room next month. You know, these are all ways that you can go from just small changes to a drastic reinvention. Over the course of time, you shifted careers into so many different kinds of shows and and had to take

that leap. What what has been sort of the key to coming up with the self confidence and the belief that this this new door that you're opening is going to work out. Okay, Well, I think I know who I am at this point in my life. I'm not sure that I did when I was, you know, thirty, and then it started, you know, and by my mid thirties, I really started to understand who I was, what I

wanted in life, what was important to me. You know, I did a lot of journaling, I did a lot of you know sort of I read a lot of self help books. Um, And what it boils down to is like I just know what I'm all about now, Like I know what is important to me. I know what my priorities in life are. I know whom I

want to surround myself with. So anytime I go into a new project now I don't think like that anything bad is going to happen, Like, what, what's the worst thing that can possibly happen that, you know, the job doesn't work out, it fails, Okay, I know that I'm a hard worker. I'll find something else that does work. Like, so, I don't care if it. I don't even think that a failure is an option. I mean it's not. It's not even there on the on the table for me.

It's like, either it's going to be a great experience or it's not gonna be a great experience, but I will learn something from it so that I will turn it into a great experience. UM. Has always been that way. We're focusing on all the successful shows and the projects that are the result of reinvention that's worked out great. Is every reinvention worked out so damn great that you don't even think that fear is a an option. Or there have been ones where they think about some things

that that have failed. In mind, I'm happy to talk about that. So I you know, I, UM, I've written some books that didn't sell all that well. UM, some that did sell really well. But then you know, I don't think like, oh I failed because this book didn't sell well, Like, Okay, it resonated with some people, didn't resonate with fifty million people. That doesn't mean that I

failed at it. Like I had a clothing line for a while, um, and I really enjoyed doing it for a while, and then I enjoy I didn't enjoy doing it anymore because what was selling was we're things that I didn't want to be selling, you know what I mean. Like I didn't I had a strong, strong feeling of what the clothes should look like. Um, and the things that we're selling were these comfy clothes, and I didn't

want to like be known for selling comfy clothes. Uh. So I was like, all right, let's just let's pull the plug on that. Uh. But I don't think it was a failure, Like Okay, Like I don't. I'm not meant to be a clothing designer, but I gave it a shot and it was fun until it wasn't fun. But that's a tremendously evolved and useful way of viewing it. Because you mentioned earlier reframing fear reframing failure, I'm giving the air quotes because some people might define it as failure.

You you've evolved to a place where you understand that that does not mean that you're an awful person that you suck at book writing or close designing. It just means that you know, it didn't work out in the commercial sense or no longer was fun. Move on that. That's so healthy and so hard for a lot of people, right, and you know we what it usually boils down to for people as are you're afraid of failure? What does

that mean? Are you afraid that people are going to laugh at you because you didn't do as well as you thought you might do? Like, are you afraid that people are going to criticize you? Like you have to get to a certain point in life where you just don't care what anybody else thinks of you. I mean, I really don't like if somebody comes up to me. I was like, you know, I hate you on that show.

Okay the check cleared, you know, you know, like I'm still a happy person, Like I got all I gotta I gotta roof over my head, and I got a nice marriage, and I got great friends, and like, you know, I got my health. You don't like me, so suck it. I don't care. That is so free as then you get to that point that you're not sort of like it' tethered or enslaved. That's a strong word, but some people are enslaved to the opinions of others and their self

belief is so fragile and um. If you can work through that and get to a place where you just don't care that much, man, it it does make that what's the best, what's the worst conversation a lot easier to have. It's it's true, it's true to start asking yourself why you care so much about what other people think,

especially strangers. Like you know, if you and jen said to me, like if you had if you called me out to dinner one night and you were like, hey, you know, we're really disappointed in you because you did this, Like that would bother me, Like that would bother me, but like you know, some rando just telling them that

they don't like my face. Like, okay, we've had some good dinner conversations that have gotten I don't know, they're up their arguments, but spirited, spirited debates, And Jennifer has begged me not to let that happen in this podcast, so I'm not going to. I knew it. I knew then you guys were gonna have that conversation. I knew it because you and I will have We will agree to disagree, but neither of us has gonna back down, and we're just gonna take it to the next level.

I love that about our friendship. I really do like we can disagree so strongly with each other. I should we let people in on what I said to you. The last time we went out to dinner was just the three of us, you, me, and jen I said, you're driving me crazy with something to say. I said, Chris, I want to reach across this table right now and straggle you and Jennifer's space was like, what's going on? Unfortunately the table was long enough that that what that

wasn't literally gonna happen. But I think that's great. I just didn't want to get caught up in a semantic debate because we both think words are important. We both love words, and reinvention is a big word that means a lot of things. Two different people like, wait a minute, I have to tear my life down and then rebuild it so that it's unrecognizable, because that's one definition of reinvention. That's not what you're talking about. That's not what you've done.

You've not made you yourself unrecognizable as you moved through these professional phases. Yeah, I feel like, having heard you say that, I should write a book called Little Pivots, Like that's what I think reinvention is, Like, that's my definition. Like that's at least that's the easiest way to do it. I think it takes a little bit longer than waking up one day and saying I'm gonna burn down this house and these clothes and start all over again with

a new name and a new haircut. You know. I think it's just it's a lot easier to make a little pivot every single day for the next you know, three years, and then you know, you wake up three years from now you're like, wow, I'm living the exact life that I wanted to. So many people have gone

through upheaval. It's not just the planet, it's within workplaces, within households of all sorts in the last year or so, and so many people clinton have had not just doors closed, but doors slammed in their face and they can no

longer go through that one. They have to stand in there in the corridor and figure out how to open a new door, and what that door is going to look like and feel like, and where that next door leads to what what what advice would you have for people that that are are forced to make changes and very uncomfortable or anxious about that. Yeah, I mean, first of all, we're living through an unprecedented time and in

at least in modern history. Um. Like, yeah, people, a lot of people are going through a really, really tough time. And it's easy to say, like just make a pivot and you'll you know, you'll h your whole life will change with the pandemic going on. So you know, there's that, But you know, I think that now is a good time for people to take stock of how they would

like to re emerge from this. You know, like, if you've got a little bit of downtime, you know, take out a notebook and grab a pen and just write on the top of the page, what do I want my life to look like post pandemic? And then really just create this vision of yourself in your new life, and then on the next page, maybe the next day or a few days later, just ask yourself what little

steps can I take to get there? You know, um, because this is going to end at some point, and it's a perfect opportunity for you to say to yourself, you know, everything that I did pre pandemic, is does it work for me anymore? So I'm gonna I'm gonna have a different outlook. And the thing is, nobody's gonna be paying attention to you and the changes that you made after the pandemic. Right it's a perfect opportunity for you to make some slide changes that can sort of

slip under the radar. Everybody's gonna be like going through their own changes, going to be re emerging in their own way, being excited about that that you're just gonna be able to sort of do whatever it is that you want to do. So take advantage of the opportunities that will come to you eventually, even if you don't have them right now. But I would say, right now,

be as creative as you possibly can. If a door is slammed in your face, you know, either you you break down the door or you cut a hole in the wall next to the door to get into the door. You know, like you have to say to yourself, like just because somebody says no, you can't do this, that doesn't mean that you can't do this. Like you're letting

other people have too much control over you. If they have told you you can't do this, and you have agreed with them, like you basically relinquished all of your control over your life over the or to another person. Now that's great advice. I think that people read books and hear speeches and people say all experience is growth. I happen to believe that all kinds of experiences grow. Sometimes the more challenging the experience, the bigger the opportunity

for growth. But it's a hard thing for people to have to hear right now. You know, a loss of identity can be very scary, and people are are attached to their jobs as their identity. I think so many people in American society, maybe more than other cultures, we are guilty of we are what we do for money, and I think when you have that attached your identity and then you don't have control over your job situation,

it's it's very frightening. How how do people separate sort of what they do for money from who they are and what they're capable of doing. Well. I'm so glad you brought this topic up because it's something that I think about a lot, and I especially have thought about a lot over the past I mean years I've been working now like forty something. I started working at the age of thirteen, so um, you know, people have asked

me like, what's your passion? What's your passion? And they're always like expecting you to fill in the blank with some sort of career passion. Right there, I was like, Oh, you know, is your passion television? No? Why on Earth and my passion be television. Look, it's the worst industry in the world. You know, it's the worst awful people you've ever met, you know it. That's another podcast episode Clinton, I guess that is or you know, is your passion? Fashion?

You know, is your passion? Cooking? You know? Is your passion? Real estate? You know? It's like, No, none of those things are my passion. You know, my passion is my life outside of work. Like I work so that I can have the life that I want to have outside of work. That's not to say that I don't love what I do. I absolutely do of what I do. I you know, I have a passion for helping people make decisions or make their lives better. So I like to give people information with a sense of humor. Like

that's what That's what I like to do. Like, that's who I am at my core. I give information with a sense of humor, so I want you to laugh and maybe think about how your life can be made a little bit better. Like but is that my passion? My bird? Like am I do? I define myself as you know, a television host who does not know absolutely not, like you are not your job. I would say to anybody who you know, when if I were to ask you, like,

who tell me a little bit about Chris Fowler? I would ask yourself if you're gonna put you, you know, like sportscaster like I wouldn't. I definitely would not say what I do for money, But I think that a lot of people do. That's the first thing tell me about yourself. Well I'm a lawyer, Well I'm a nurse. That as though, that's the most important thing about you is what you do for forty hours a week or

more and what you get a paycheck for. I think as soon as we free ourselfialm that idea and begin to think of ourselves as whole people who are much more than what we do, then I think you give less less power to other people. Yeah, I agree, you know, it's it's a sort of a tricky question. Tell me

about you like that. It's the easiest answer is to tell people what you do for a living because you do that, you know, forty hours a week, maybe more, but that's really not who you are, and unless you really are your job, Like, some people just have no life. But they do have to reinvent themselves if they if they were going through a situation where they're unemployed or untethered to a job, and that that loss of identity is depressing, causes them anxiety, causes them loneliness, all kinds

of things. Then it's emergency reavention time. You have to find a way to not think of yourself as a person without a job and who you know, who you are as a complete person. But not easy. Yeah, it's not easy. I think sometimes when people lose a job, and I've been in this situation before, like when you lose a job that you really like, it's not necessarily like he feels a part of you has died because that job no longer exists. I feel like it's like I miss doing what I like doing for a living.

You know. It's like sometimes when your job brings you joy, like you're like and that gets taken away from you, it's your You have to mourn the loss of the joy as much as the loss of the paychecks. Sometimes, um, you know, it's like I I really had a good time at work. Um, I got a lot of personal um, you know, satisfaction out of my job, and now it's been taken away from me. Where am I going to

find that personal satisfaction? So you have to sort of ask yourself, like, is there another way for me to get that in my life? Um? And maybe your job isn't the only way for you to get it, you know, like sometimes you have to do a job just for the money, um, And there are lots of people who do their jobs just for the money. But you have to say to yourself, what what is it that I

love to do? You know, like is it fishing? Is it some sort of like, you know, some sort of hobby, some sort of sport, Like you can get personal satisfaction from that, And that's just okay, that's that's totally acceptable. I'd like to ask you to explain your tattoo and how it reflects your outlook in life. But we're not talking about barbed wire around a bicep. It's a little bit more meaningful tattoos. And I did. This reminds me

of when uh, Halloween years ago in the nineties. I guess it was my friends and I went for Halloween's gay stereotypes. Um, and I I went as like a muscle daddy or so like a leather daddy, I think it was. And I had like this. I put a barbed wire tattoo around my arm and it said cliche. Anyway, I have a tattoo on my over my heart. Um that says luckiest, but it says it in reverse, so

that when I look in the mirror, I read it luckiest. Um. It's not for anybody else, It's just for me as a daily reminder that I am indeed the luckiest person in the whole world. UM. And I believe that, and I think that, you know, it's just another way of saying gratitude, like just just it just reminds me, like

remember what you've got. You got everything you've ever hoped and dreamed for, um, and just be thankful for it because like the universe has aligned itself in your favor and you've taken advantage of all the opportunities that life presented you. UM, and you did the best that you could with all of them. And so that's just my you know, my daily reminder that I am indeed the luckiest. Well,

I think gratitude. There are a few things more important to express on a daily basis, whatever way people want to do it, than that luck is a word that means different things to different people. You said opportunities and they knew what to do with them, because sometimes luck gets shot down as a concept that's integral to success, because luck is where preparation meets opportunity. There's all kinds

of cliches and quotes about it. Luckiest to you carries that second piece though, Yeah, you're there are certain things you're very fortunate to the universe for. But that wasn't the end of the story. That didn't get you to where you are, right, It's not like I got my life through winning the lottery or like, you know, putting it all out read at the roulette able. You know it's by the way, you're a terrible roulette player, Chris

um really the worst? Uh? I can I can laugh and freely accept that criticism because I know that it doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It just means that when I put the money on Red Black came up one particular gambling trip at the World's Worst casino and Panama by the Way, where a crushing night at the table, I lost about, you know, sixty three dollars. So I was okay, but right everybody else is winning. I realized I'm gonna do the exact opposite of what Chris is doing.

I can win, which is what I did. So yeah, but anyway, so like I didn't. You know, that's what luck means to me. It's like, it's not about casino luck or lottery luck. Luck to me is about, um, just appreciating everything that I have in my life. And I'm just lucky to have it all. Um. And that doesn't mean that I didn't work hard for it, because I know that I did. Um, And I had a lot of faith in myself. I don't come from a

family of money. UM. I dug myself out of many holes, you know, monetarily, and UM, so I've you know, I've worked hard for where I am and I've made some smart decisions and I feel good about that. And I'm lucky to I'm lucky to have everything that I've ever wanted. The newest TV project you deal with people who are self made entrepreneurs who have accumulated enough money to now enjoy their life. And that's what self made mansions is about.

Have you seen in these interesting people who are successful in different ways a common thread or what what can you tell people you found from your experience that has led them to this place where they become empowered and they they become wealthy enough to buy a nice house. Yeah, it's a real combination of having faith in their idea

and work ethic. So it's like a real belief that they can achieve what they want to achieve and then also being willing to put the work into it, like you know, all day, every day until it pays off. Like a lot of these people, I mean, they didn't have a penny in the bank at a certain point and they're like, you know what, we just feel like

this could be a success. If so they believed that their product could be a success, and then they really believe it at their core, and then they were just willing to like beg borrow it's nut steal necessarily, but like just work their asses off until they achieved it. You know, there's there's a real stick tuitiveness that that all of these people had in common. You know, not one of them really ever seemed to doubt that they

were going to be a success. Like I I've always I've been saying for a long time, you can't have something unless you really can see yourself having it, you know what I mean, Like, you can't achieve something until you can really visualize yourself achieving it. And that's what these people have the vision to know that they would be a success. People have told me they don't believe in destinations in life as much as directions. That really resonates.

I believe that every day as a continue process of growth and evolution. How many more reinvent mentions do you think you have? And what what are you still learning about yourself? Even in a pretty evolved state with what we both got some years on this, But what are you still learning about yourself through this process as you continue to reinvent? It's for me, I don't know how

many reinventions I've got left. We'll see. I mean, um, you know, every once in a while, I start getting that itch from like I feel like I need something else going on in my life. And so then when I get that itch, I'll I'll start to pivot in a certain way. Um and what am I? What am I learning about myself? I will still doubt myself from

time to time. Um. You know, I think working in the television industry can be hard on a person because it's not like I doubt myself, but I doubt whether like this package is still desired, you know what I mean? Like you get to a certain point where like I have to ask myself, do I want to be in TV anymore? Because I feel like I'm getting you know, who wants a middle aged homosexual? Like do people still want to see this on their TV sets? Okay? Um?

You know, but I know that I'm going to do something with my life, whether it's on TV or not. Like I think that's what it boils down to, Like that that's right, that that that that the answer is yes. And I don't think those conversations last very off and very long, or you wouldn't continue to progress and take these leaps that you do into these new projects. But no, I mean I don't think we don't none of us ever banished self doubt or completely evolve route grow that's

always going to be there before we wrap. Is there a mic drop moment or a statement you want to make about reinvention of someone that's gone through it so so successfully yourself and help so many other people do it. Um away to to sum up the messaging, get to the bottom of your fear. Really ask yourself, what are you afraid of? Do I want to be afraid of this anymore? And then take steps not to be afraid

of it. I think that's that's what it boils down to, like tackle the fear, beat the crap out of it. You know, looking in the eye, you're like, you're ugly, um and you're not going to have any control over me. I think that's that's that's the biggest thing, Like get in touch with your fear. Oh I have I know, May I have something more profound to say? That's pretty good. Are you afraid of dying or you how about this, Chris?

Are you afraid of dying or are you more afraid to die not having done everything you wanted to do? That's that's what I realized. I know we're getting to this at the end of the interview, but that's what I realized was a big motivating factor for me. I didn't want to die knowing that I didn't do something because I was afraid of doing it. That's deep. That's a good mic drop. See dying seems like an appropriate topic for the end of a podcast interview. Where do

you go from there? But I think that's that's great. You only live once is a pithy way to say it. But that's kind of what you're it. You're saying kind of true. Listen, unless you believe in reincarnation, yea, who knows. I say all the time, it's like, if there is reincarnation, I'm done. I can just be my last trip around. I just what canna and I can just come back as a bird next time. All right, Clinton in the next life will book you as a bird and it

would be a whole another podcast. But this this has been great. I think people have really have gotten a lot of this and have we had fun. So I appreciate very much your time. Grateful for it. Oh anytime, Chris, you know I'm a I'm your number one fan, although as your wife can tell you, I have no idea what you do for a living. And that is the

accura right there. And finally, to set the record straight, Mr Kelly, I've had some extraordinarily lucky nights at the Roulette Wheel, even if it is the worst odds in the casino. One borderline psychic experience there, but that's for another episode. Maybe you can follow Clinton on Instagram at Clinton Kelly o H. If you're reinventing part of yourself where you want to, I know that can be deeply challenging,

but it's also rewarding and it can be fun. And I hope you find some of Eddie and Clinton's experiences and ideas helpful. Thanks to my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster and producer Jason white Hell, and thank you for listening. Please subscribe and review and I'll talk to you soon