PROWESS AND PERSEVERANCE, PART 2: BOB WOODRUFF (ABC News)

and his families. My little my little daughter, Norah. I've got twin adorable little girls, and they were five years old when I was hit, and about six months after I came back, still had all of these wounds all over my body, and I couldn't remember a lot of things. Um, and she my daughter asked me. She asked. She was talking to my wife Lee, and she says, Mom, you know, ah, Dad's head seems to have that because they cut off part of my skullies. You've got that dented head. And

mom says, don't worry. That's they're going to put that skull back on. It'll be fun. And mommy's got all of these scars all over his back. Don't worry, sweet, that'll get better. And my dad's got all these little pieces of metal and rocks and implanted in the left part of his jaw. She says, don't worry those popping out one at a time. That's gonna be fine. And she said, you know, mom noll, the I think my

dad loves me even more than he did before. Now, whether that was an expression of it, um, maybe it indicated something. I felt so lucky to be alive. The tank Bob was riding and was hit by that I e ed in early two thousand and six, just a month after he earned the coveted co anchor chair in ABC World News Tonight. He's still doing great work for ABC News, but his injuries created another life mission, giving aid and hope to wounded veterans, service members and their

families to the Bob Woodrow Foundation. We talked about what's needed now and what we can do to support them. What they really want is they want a job, you know, they want to have their life better. Not just somebody shouting out and say, you know you served, thank you so much. But I'm not going to do anything more than that. You know, I'm not going to do anything else to help you. Uh. The big thing is not just to say or to show how much you love them.

It's really more about doing something behind the curtain, to do something for them. Bob believes recognizing and trusting in the potential of veterans to use their skills and experiences and do great things goes so far. Marine veteran Kiante's story in the companion episode of this one said his postcombat turning point was one person believing in him, and he took it from there. There's a lot to take

away from this conversation with Bob Woodriff. Was great reconnecting five years after learning so much from him covering the Invictus Games together in two thousand and sixteen. Bob, thanks for joining us. It's nice to reconnect with you. I loved our brief time working together with the Invictus Games, and I appreciate your time and your wisdom and your expertise on this. Yeah, Chris, it's great to see you

again or listen to you again. I don't know what defense of his audio or video both, but I think that shedding light on the issues that we're gonna get into is important. So let's start with this. You you were a war correspondent for about a decade you saw up close the Iraq conflict. You've had other experiences with

with people in combat. What is not understood or appreciated enough by those of us that have not had that experience about the nature of those kinds of conflicts, you know, it's it's interesting that, yes, if you go and you embed with the military out in a in a war zone, you get very close to them. But it's not just the people of America that don't have the chance to go and and experience this and get to get to

know them, you know, they're in the war zones. It's interesting in our country that we have very little contact with the military, those of us on the civilian world. It's well below one percent of Americans, you know, serve in the military, So you don't get a chance to really get to know them very well unless you have the opportunity opportunity to do so, whether you're visiting a base or if you happen to be alongside them when they're when they're engaged in war. So it's it's it's

it's really different than than it was historically. When you look back when we're young, you know, you and I were growing up in the has Has young teenagers, you know, and at the time of the Vietnam War where people got to contact with them, World War two, Korean War, even the numbers are very high percentage wise. But now it's just so small and the voluntary military that we just don't have that much of a relationship with those

in the in the forces. We hear about wars, but I think our understanding is of war at a thirty thousand foot level. We have a general idea that many thousands are involved, a bunch of money is involved. We have a vague idea about what the overall mission is as it's expressed to us. But the day to day, what it's like, what their experiences, those of the personnel that are fighting these wars, no understanding at all. You've got a chance to see that up close, well, you know.

It's it's interesting though, Chris, that we had more coverage of the when the when the wars were peaking in the Rock and Afghanistan, because we had so much embedding, we had the chance to broadcast more, put it out on radio and really get a sense of what it was like to be engaged compared to certainly compared you know, to some of the more religious more wars that were not long befine before this, you know, so we had a chance to be there a lot of people covering it.

But you know, it's it's different the world and they the personality when you're actually fighting out there's different than what you're like when you come back and you engage and the military goes back into you know, the veterans go back into the civilian world. It's uh, you know, it's just it's a different world. It's an isolation. You know. They just don't get the chance to get any attention or coverage when they're back and they're not fighting out

there in the fields and on the sand. So you know, yeah, it's it's a it's something so much that America needs to learn more about the lives of those veterans, Not so much really when they're in the in the in the war, but when they come back and they're living in a normal, ordinary life like the rest of us. And that's exactly what I want to talk about today, because the military civilian component of this is enormous. The the mindset of those who do the fighting. What is

not well understood about that. I mean, it's it's it's a broad question, I know, But for those of us that have not been in combat, not seeing what they do, seeing what they were turning from, and have no understanding about why the adjustment is so difficult. UM take take us inside an armored vehicle and inside the heads of those guys as best you can. You know, I am

I embedded twice. I came in the invasion of a Rock back in two thousand three with the with the Marines, first L A. R. And then the second time I embedded was when I was hit, which was with the Army with a fourth Infantry in two thousand and six in January, which is when we were hit, you know, And that when I only and the first time I embedded, I was there for for months with them preparing for the invasion and after the invasion, and this time I had actually come in in about five days before we

were ultimately hit and and wounded. I was only really with them for about five days and that was experienced not inside a tank most of the time. But we were going village to villa just to try to learn more about what the Iraqis needed and wanted so we could ultimately the US could ultimately hand the power over and the responsibility over to the Iraqi military, so we were out there with both both both the US forces and the Iraqi forces. So I the life in there

was very short lived. In the first l a R and the vehicle on the way into the invasion, that was one we've learned. We learned how to eat the boxes of food, we learned how to uh, you know, let's go to the bathroom, you know, on the sand, in all sorts of ways. You know. We just couldn't get out of the vehicle for eleven hours at a times, just because we didn't want to be exposed to possible explosions i e. D. You know, improvised explosive devices, so

we had to be somewhat cautious about that. So it's two very different experiences for me h going in with the Marines and then going out with the army. The experience when you're hit, you're in an Iraqi town, inc As you've told it, you you poke your head out of the top of the vehicle to do a stand up, which is an on camera because the audio wasn't great the first time, and then boom um, everything about your life when the course sort of changes in an instant there. Yeah,

you know, I have some regrets about it. I mean, that's that's absolutely the case. People ask me, would you have advice that if there was a an explosion or the possibility of an explosion and you were out there in the sand, I said, well, make sure you duck

after it's because it was. I was hit very badly on the left side of my of my my head, so it knocked me out instantly, and I then I fell back into the tank and I actually woke up for about one minute before you know, the expansion of my brain ultimately knocked me out for the next thirty six days. But when I went inside, I saw my other team, my my producer and my sound man am I and my shooter that that, uh, we're down there.

They're all fine ish. Actually, my cameraman, Doug Vote was really badly hit too, but he did not go unconscious at the time. And I turned to them and I said, are we still alive? And they said, uh, yeah, we're alive. And that's the last thing I remembered until I woke up, you know in March. You know, this was January twenty nine that was hit, So it was three thirty six

days later. It was. It was. It was an explosion that kind of ultimately taught me a topic in details that I never would have had any idea what to understand. I did not understand them before. I didn't know what an improvised explosive device was in terms of what it, what it, what happens if you're hit by it. I knew what they were, I just didn't know really what the life was like when you were ultimately wounded in a war. So it was a brand new topic that

I suddenly in an instant, became a student in. And uh, it's been now slightly more than fifteen years since this happened. Do you want to dive into what you lost but also what you gained that experience because you just hit it, not it. But I do think that when you went through what far too many soldiers go through that kind of injury, you gain an understanding that only someone who's been through it can and that's allowed you to trying to light on it, make a connection with them through

your foundation. And obviously we'll get to all that, but you you now understand things in a way that very very few thankfully civilians can. Yeah, you know there are there are you know that's that's funny you say that, Chris, because there's there are people that asked me that too.

Is there's obviously downsides, negative parts of getting hit us, and there are some positive things that can happen in your life that give you a different opportunity because you really have to get off the old path that you were on. It's really hard for everybody that's wounded to give in to this and to admit or just face the reality that you cannot do exactly the same thing that you used to be able to do. I had I had a loss of memory because of this blast

on the left side of my brain. I had never lost I've not lost the opportunity to think and understand things. I just can't come up with the words. So and I sometimes I said, I wish I wish I had more of a physical career that I was on, like a like a surgeon, where I could just figure out how to how to rebuild your knees and things, because I don't really need to know the names of all those joints that the patients would not like that idea where I'd asked them, you know, what's the name of

that neat thing? You have there. I can't, but I could physically fix it because I didn't need to have words for it. So I lost my opportunity. So I was really instantly give having that I was. I was a reporter. I had to go live and report like you, Chris, and I just I just lost the ability to make sure I got the names right, you know, already, to remember the name I came out, you said, remembering the names of your kids and your brothers, and the states

and the presidents. And it just wasn't there, which obviously, in its own way, is as a terrifying new reality. Thankfully that that has faded, right, Yeah, that I mean, this is it. It's like night and day. What what life was like when I had just woken up. You know, I just couldn't remember the name of two of my four kids, pretty sad um. I could remember other names that I never to that to this day, I don't

understand why were those ones? Names that I can remember are words that I can remember, and other ones I didn't. But the problem is I didn't have so many um, so many words that I could use to finish my point, and it was just really quite embarrassing in the beginning of that. So I I knew I had to get out of exactly this the kind of reporting I did before. Um, but it took me a long time to realize. You know,

I'm not going to anchor World News tonight again. I'm not going to be covering the Why House where there's moments where I couldn't remember the name of the vice president. You know, I knew that I couldn't do that because I had a it's called a phasia, which is really the blast to the left part of the of the head um. You know, you can get hit a different angles of your brain. You can get you know, depression. If it's hit on this side, you can hear, you know,

you can lose languages and words. You can hit on the left side. Uh, you know, there's depression from difference. So there's different things about the brand I didn't know about before, And suddenly I knew that I had to change change my path. Almost miraculous you survived. You talked about the medical care you received right on the spot, and then at the various hospitals. We become incredibly good at keeping people alive and dealing with the immediate physical

trauma and the the very obvious wounds of war. It's the next level of the wounds, the ones you don't see, the ones that sneak up on you, the ones that linger for years. That's what Bob I think as a nation, we're still grappling with understanding the depth in the skoo to that problem, then what to do about it. You had a chance to buy your first hand experience, sort of get a window on that, you know, I with

without without questions. You know, I do say the one I went to UH does enable which part of Walter Reid down in d C, in Berkeley, in in uh wash in d C. That was remarkable advancements in medicine. You know, they do say a lot, and it's true that wars, if there are good things is they have developed new kind of treatment and surgery, et cetera for

the medical world. I mean, the care was amazing for all of us, For me who was a civilian right there in the military hospital surrounded by largely Marines as this was, but does enable which is you know, as you enable which in the Marines are part of the navy. Uh. And this was the place that was really concentrating on brain injury as opposed to you know, amputation and burns,

which is a specialty, and other other hospitals. So there I was getting this amazing treatment, and I also, you know, I saw that it wasn't so much really the the doctors and the nurses, they were not giving them quite the same treatment as I got. Was coming to a sense of lacking the kind of luck and and resources that I did. I was, you know, twenty four years old. At forty four years old, at the time, I had

my family, I had ABC was behind me. I was being so much well supported, and I realized that on that same third floor, but as enabled with other unconscious, badly wounded hit by I E ed patients like me, and some of them did not have the family surrounding them. In some cases they had no one their family members because they at that point did not get the rights and the abilities two keep their jobs and come and visit their their son or daughter while they're they're recovering,

almost dead. And then that was really when we realized that something needs to be done. You know, I woke up and and it took me a long time to realize how badly I was hit. I didn't even I didn't even know when I woke up, part of my skull had been removed. It took some time before my family to really want to tell me that news, but

I woke up, Wow, I'm back. Everything is miraculous. And that's when I learned that everybody on that floor with me, we're going to uh really descend into major depression because they realized that their lives are not the same. That's another way that you can relate in a way that very few of his can to what the many many, many thousands of soldiers would come home with the invisible wounds. I mean, you went through I'm sure stages of it.

You've lost you you said, speech and memory essential tools to your job. Um, most people would be very angry about that. You have to go through those stages. And then depression obviously is as a companion to that. What's misunderstood about the severity of that and what the struggle that people go through. Yeah, you know this this is another thing, like like I said before, in terms of you compared to some previous wars, we had so much,

so much coverage of it that was going on. People saw what these worlds, what these weapons were like, and what they're seeing out there and But the other one that was different about this war, completely different one compared different ones, is because of the advanced medicine, lives were

saved that we're not saved in previous wars. In fact, they I was told that five years earlier, if I had hit with the exactly the same I E D and I had the same ability, the same kind of treatment once I got in, that I probably would not have survived. They were able to develop things that they never would have, that they didn't really have before, so that the medical care was was so good that they were able to save people that would not have been

saved before. On top of all of that, that they they had numbers um because of these uh different kite because they were I e ED explosions, they were hitting that those were hitting people from the side. Um when you're in a rock and they're hitting you from the underneath when you're in Afghanistan. Because Afghanistan had dirt roads and Iraq had largely pavement roads. So the insurgents they wanted to plant an I e d. As, they put it on the side because they couldn't get it underneath pavement.

In a rock, they would go underneath Afghanistan, you go from underneath. So in Iraq there's a lot of these blasts from the side, which means tons of brain injuries, you know. Then in Afghanistan a lot of amputations because they came from Underneathan blew off your arms and your legs, So it's kind of interesting to see those that part

of the war. But given the fact that some of these wounds because of the blasts, as opposed to bullets and explosions that you know, knocked you out, there were, as you said, a lot of invisible wounds, the ones you couldn't really see, and that created problems in the sense that no one really knew what to do, and they didn't really know what they were, and they knew that. Some did not want to ever admit that they had something that no one saw because because it was it

was looked within the military, especially as is embarrassing. It's like you're being wimpy or something. If you want to say that you're not the same condition as you were because you can't see anything. Was it was easy for me to convince people because mind was so obvious. But I knew that there was a lot had kind of these new wounds that didn't exist that much before. So those are physical. And then there's always the multiple deployments

in this war. Because it's voluntary military, we have such small numbers of American serving and a very big wars going head to head to Iraq and Afghanistan. They had so many deployments that people developed kinds of depression and traumatic brain and brand that too, but also PTSD post traumatic stress. Let's talk more about what's different with these wars because the it's been more than twenty years since

the presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan began. Officially Iraq was nine years, but they're still at presents Afghanistan stretching towards two decades now. And as you said, a lot of it it's the same soldiers fighting again and again and going back and forth, which I mean in Afghanistan alone is longer than both World Wars and the Korean

War combined. So what's unique and challenging about the problems that they faced just because of this year length of it, well the length of it they didn't one, they didn't know when their last deployment was going to be. I mean, they would go one after another after another, whereas you look at Vietnam, people would do like one deployment because there were so many they were they were drafted in this case, they didn't really know a how often they

were gonna go will they have to go again? And then secondly, there was not this because sometimes I like to compare Less to Vietnam because there's almost like the opposite war and the treatment of the military. But back then, you you'd go back to the Saigon and go party and smoke pot. What are you gonna do? And then you go back to the war zone and you knew there was separated completely. You know, you knew almost certainly you're not going to get blown up by an I E. D.

In downtown Saigon. You know, you go to a different world. And then when you were it was intense and many ways more intense because less protected when you're fighting in Vietnam, but you at least you knew where it was. In a rock and Afghanistan, every day you were vulnerable, something could have happened, and that created another kind of traumatic of another kind of uh, post traumatic stress. There wasn't

quite the intensity of it back and Vie Vietnams. Yeah, that kind of stress was created the treatment they got when they got home, by the militant, by the civilian world. You know, that's another huge difference in this. And compared to vietn Um the Rock in Afghanistan, that's well put. You sort of had the line between friend and foe

slightly more clearly drawn there. It must be quite fuzzy for those that have fought in these marathon wars in the Middle East because that there is no time when you can take a deep breath and relax, And I imagine the psychological told that will continue to take on all of the of the soldiers fought there for the rest of their lives. We're gonna be dealing with this

for decades, just because of the severity of that. And and you point out very well other wars sort of here, we're over here, there, over there, here's the line, and although it's terrifying and violent, it's slightly more clearly drawn and therefore, uh doesn't create the same level of anxiety I would imagine after the fact. Yeah, But the one one that one that it is the same is that

they're asymmetrical wars. You know, we we're the ones with all the amazing weapons and planes and boats and bullets and I E ed explosions, and you know, the opposition in these wars, that so called enemies were the ones that were were hiding and didn't have much, but they

would never they would never give up. It was hard to get them to succumb because they were they were the ones that were did not have the kind of pressure on them two to win with every battle they would they were more likely to die and not give up. So they were both asymmetrical wars, all of the back in Vietnam and the ones we've got now in a rock and Afghanistan. So in that sense they were the same. It was a wake up that these wars, it's hard to define what the wind is. It doesn't you don't

really understand when it is that you could withdraw. World War two was so obvious that it was surrenders. They wrote the document, they signed the paper and says we now officially lost. The war is over. You know, those days are over. So that added yet more stressed not only to those on the sands, but those back in Pentagon because they didn't know really what to do and how long this would last. They're real it's still there. Your experiences created an awareness which was a call to action.

You and your wife. Lee is a very gifted author and and and advocate as well, and she's been handed hand with you for for more than three decades now. The Bob Wader Foundation does a great job at finding ways to fill in the gaps that big government can't. I know, you sometimes think outside the box and and find ways to serve communities that are underserved and represented.

What what's misunderstood about the most urgent needs for veterans now who come home with their physical wounds, whether it's UH amputations, dealing with prosthetics, or the invisible wounds. What's what do we not understand about what the challenges are and how to meet them? You know, in the beginning, it was it was a world that people just didn't

know much about. You know, people didn't civilians us and my friends, and didn't really know where they were going when they came back from the hospital on the recovery. So in the beginning we really needed to try to get them anything that the that the v A and the d O D we're not really dealing with because a they were overwhelmed by the number of wounds that happened UH and Secondly, they didn't really think that this this war would create the kind of wounds that were

in many cases were invisible. So we knew that we had to help people literally get something set up for them when they went back to the civilian world because they're no longer living on the base. They had to come from the hospital to home that they had to figure out how to pay for it, they had to figure out how to survive. The government was overwhelmed to try to fix that. We knew that there are so many people in the civilian world. They wanted to contribute,

they wanted to do something. It was just really complicated, uh difficult to understand what it is that needed to be done. So in the beginning, it was trying to help those are just returned and on recovering from a wound in a brand new world for them. Now that that's not really the case, you know, the problem is not to try to open up the local community for

those that are suffering. But there's other issues that have lasted for from the beginning, which is you know, certainly depression because the lives have changed, and there's and there's a huge numbers of suicide within the military because the life has changed so quickly, you know, and now with with families, there is uh you know, there's there's food

in security because of what's happening because of COVID. So our foundation this year is concentrating a lot on helping those that uh, you know, the military, the veterans that they need as much help as they can to deal with what that kind of uh insecurity food experience, because a lot of in case this this in many cases are the Vietnam vets because they're older, they're living in the nursing homes. The highest number of deaths because of

COVID are in the nursing home. And it's it's interesting, Chris, that how how how willing are those veterans to accept and want help from the outside. Sometimes you've got to push them a little bit to take it. You know. They talk a lot about we don't want pity, and they have great dignity and in some some cases they don't want to admit that they don't have enough food.

But it is the case. So the percentage of those uh, those that don't you know, on their own seek for help is lower percentage than it is in the civilian world. We're more likely to do it. You know, again, it's kind of like that macheesmore thing that people know. There's a stigma about being wounded in the war if you don't see it, as I said, But it's kind of the same a little bit with insecurity, with you know, feeding your family no matter what your age, is nothing

more basic than that. When you talk about helping veterans and helping them deal with the consequences of war, it should be where it seems to be mostly a political but then you have to get the funding at the the the v A. The budget was just increased from last year. It's two forty three billion in the new budget, bob up billion. The budget from mental health ten point three billion has been earmarked. Sounds like a staggering number.

It's about four percent by my math of the total budget, and then of that three twelve million, so a much smaller percentage is directly earmarked to suicide prevention. And what's more important than keeping someone alive. You can't help them if they don't see a reason to live, and you

can't deal with that immediate crisis. What's your reaction to to that commitment and how does it translate to actual health because the numbers do sound pretty staggering, But is that just a fraction of what needs to be done. This need to be spent more smartly than it is being spent. Well, it's interesting those those two topics you just said, is because those are the ones that have have lasted for a couple of decades. Now after nine eleven,

that is still a problem. You know, the physical kind of assistance, um, you know, to build new devices so you can walk better if your have amputation, or you need to have more surgery for badly burnt you know, that was finished you know years ago. Those kinds of

wounds are not really happening. But the ones that are not going away is you know mental health, uh, suicide, depression, And that's why that's getting the biggest increase in funding from the government because they know these things have not been solved yet. Despite the fact that the v A has gotten a lot better at all of this than it was before, because it's like I said, they were overwhelmed and there was brand new to them. But now they've really they've actually done a pretty good job now

compared to before to try to help this. But they definitely need more people. They need more development um and they need to have the ability to recognize where these problems are happening, because not everybody comes forward right away to do it. So, yes, it's in a perfect world, gris for all of this. Put more money in it,

you know, put more attention to it. Uh, then you can fill yourself with all sorts of politics on this is how much funded with But you know, we're pushing as much as we can to get somebody to participate in it, in it if the government's not handling. And so we've got people a lot of the volunteer their time and people that want to donate some money to try to happen in the in the private civilian world of uh philanthropy, we're getting some of that participation by

people too, So we're getting more. But in a purple world we get some. It would be nice to get even more support. Yeah, I mean the increase in the v A budget in the last twenty years has been up fivefold. But the problem continues to just to mushroom

and grow their staffed. And there's politics, Bob, and then there's just the the the nitty gritty to face to face Kiante story and marine that we both know who lost part of his right leg in Afghanistan and has been a great athlete at the Paralympics and the Invictus Games. Could used to be a spokesman for for these causes.

My conversation with him, he talked about the moment where in the dark days, coming back and adjusting to his new life and wrestling with it the best he can, but but being depressed and realizing one days it looked in the mirror that he was abusing his pain mediciication, that that wasn't who he wanted to be. It wasn't who he was in his words, So the awareness to realize that, then the strength of will to quit those medications cold turkey and deal with the side effects and

deal with the pain. Not everybody has that, but those are the kinds of personal struggles that millions go through on a day to day basis in front of the mirror. What can you share from your conversations with so many that you stay in touch with about the very personal day to day struggles of these folks that need to be better addressed. Yeah, you've got to. You've got to find your mission and you've got to You've gotta find

something that's different than you did before. You know, you have to admit finally that you're not going to go on that same path you had before. So once you can figure out a way that that you can, uh, you know, get an idea of what it is you want to accomplish and therefore have the ability to move towards it. That is the one that in some ways kind of it's the only way really to help your depression and they get yourself out of it, you know,

you know, sports is one of them. That's why he said, County. He's he's like an amazing athlete. In the last time I saw him personally was out at at one of the Invictus Games, where he of course was winning. Because he's an amazing sport athlete. To be in with and to do it without a leg, I mean, that's I mean, what can you do? You know, what can you say? The thing is he actually wasn't a great athlete before.

I put that down in his strength of will man and and balls, because he wasn't like a track athlete before he was injury. He just decided this is going to be something for me that's gonna save my my santity. Maybe saved my life, and so I'm gonna pour myself into it and work hard. And winning races was something new to him. He wasn't like he was an athlete before this happened. He just found something and then dove into it. And he ran marathons without ever training for

more than five miles at a time. Just he just gutted it out, not not not not advised, but he did it. You don't. You don't have to get blown up, hit by a bomb in one of the worst to know. You know how big sports is. It's to you, it's to me. I mean I played sports my entire life and you know what I didn't really understand before was what the impact of sports are on on your brain too. So it's mine, you know, count he's his his physical

his with you know, he's an amputee uh sports. It's crucial to him to just to prove that he can still do it. He doesn't need all these legs right to do his sport. And by the way, we can use all sorts of humor with each other. I got that right now. I can we make jokes about each other. But so he's got that, and maybe maybe you ought to be an empt two, Chris, maybe even faster than you were before. UH and they would say his this physical one. What I didn't really know was the impact

of sports style on your on your brain. I think we maybe you all, I mean, you know it too because you're in the in the world of it, um, but I just didn't realize how crucial that is to

develop and maintain the health of your brain. I remember I did a I did a participated in an event out in Stanford where I had a bunch of doctors in the university UH in the fitness stadium there, and we all talked about dramatic brain injury and then how to make it get with the recovery and then you know, neurosurgeon neurologists would were there to give the advice to people. So one of the questions from the when the stands were give me the three most important ways to improve

the intensity and health of your brain. And he said, well, there's three ways to do it. Exercise, exercise, exercise. You know that blood flowing through your head is the ones that have an impact on it, and so no matter even if you have traumatic brain injury or nothing, you know that getting that flowing through your head is get the most most influence over over your mental health. You've talked about other things too, The power of laughter. Humor

is essential, the power of music. You believe in that. Those are two other topics of podcasts because they do have an amazing ability to connect in our brains and make us more resilient and and take the focus sometimes where it needs to be and help ease the pain. So anything at our disposal that that you've got, I know, is essential to help folks get through with what they have to get through. Yeah, in any anyway. I mean listen, family and friends are just absolutely that's the other one.

You've got to have that and engage with other people. I mean one of the ones that's really launches pole or makes them forces them downward into the world of depression. Um and yah. All sorts of kinds of of other problems too. Is isolation if there's any way that you can find a way to interact with people, which is you know what, COVID has completely destroyed a lot of this because people can't go in the offices, they can't

even come in contact with people. And even if you're doing out of a mask on or everyone's worried about getting something. So that has really accelerated. This is that is that I actually hit veterans and even even harder because of that, because of the intense need to have that the comradeship that was a big part of their service, that was the part of the intensity of the experiences of what helped them get through every day well in

combat and well at home. And now a lot of it has taken away, Bob, because of the world, at least temporarily the world we're living in right now. Yeah, this is well before COVID, Chris. I mean this is you know, you if you go and you're you're at war, you wake up in the morning with the same people you go to bed with at night, you know, or going the same place to sleep, but necessarily to bed. But then you go to bed surrounded by the same

people next day, the same things. So one of the biggest problems, um, whether you're wounded or not, when you come back from serving there for thirteen months in Iraq or Afghanistan, you come back and you've got a completely different team of people that you're with, and it's a much larger, more wide collection of people that you don't have that tight, tight relationship having lived through the same things an intensity that you somehow survived and came through.

You don't have that kind of relationship that's quite as you know, healthy, as as it was over there, isn't that.

It's it's interesting, right, you're going to serve in the war and you've got things that make your life so much better when you're there compared to when you come back and spend time in peace because the thing changed so so much, and you put all that now force that into the crisis we're going through in our country right now with COVID, you're even more isolated, with more bad news and pressing things every day that you know that is, yes, that's that's that's hurt perhaps those that

were wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan because they had already gone through it. I just want to make sure that people know that too. When I talk about the wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, this is you know, one one quarter maybe of those who served that have

gone through something like this. You know, most of them have come back you know, healthy, you know, and and the last thing they want to think is that we all think that they were at the war, and they're wounded and they're they're not able to do the same as they did before. I just want to make sure that that's that that's clear. But those that did have something that happened over there, it's been really double a double whammy. For the majority, you come back healthy physically.

I still think it's import and to keep an eye on them and make sure that their needs are being met because although they don't want pity, they don't be all they need help. These are still tough things they've gone through and you don't you can't fully appreciate perhaps the echoes and what the what the repercussions are about.

And we need to be I think it's a society aware of that and attentive to that because they may have come back able body to not believe they quote need help, because it's still the stigma to reaching out for that, especially when you come from a culture where you're supposed to be um strong and and sturdy. But I think we need to keep on eye on that as well, because we don't maybe fully appreciate it at the moment how long this is gonna last and how

many people it's going to touch. Yeah, listen, I mean, respect and congratulations and all of that are are really good for for everybody. But yeah, I mean I guess they just don't don't assume that there's something, you know, some mental issue that had or physical thing that's you know, that's invisible. But yes, I think, yes, we make sure you look because this is one again that they don't want to come back and admit. So if you do notice something and try to do if you can to

convince them to seek some help or for that. But I do talk to a lot of veterans, and they love it when people have raised the flags and say thank you for serving our country and giving them the ability to get on the plane before the rest and all that. But some also say, well, you know what, just let us kind of just just kind of go into this different world, civilian world we're now back at. You know, I'm not sure we I couldn't even tell you the percentage who love that and those who don't

really want that. What they really want is they want to get the job. They want a job, you know, they want to have their life better, not just somebody shouting out and say, you know you served, thank you so much. But I'm not going to do anything more than that. You know, I'm not going to do anything else to help you. Uh. The big thing is not just to say or to show how much you love them. It's really more about doing something behind the curtain, to

do something for them. Amen perfectly said. I've said that often for people who do want to help but don't know how. Um. First of all, I would urge you to look into the Bob Wooder Foundation because you do some of the work for people. You do a lot

of investigating and vetting and looking at the organizations. They are not scams because I know those exist out there, the ones that are doing specific good work and have a track record of doing So, what have you found in terms of the climate, Because so many people are stretched and challenged by the times, and and sometimes raising funds for cause, no matter how worthy, can be really difficult at this time, are there still enough people who want to help and what what should they do to

take those steps to back up what they're saying with actual deeds. Yeah, I mean people in your neighborhood. You probably you know the ones that you know the most. You'll know what to do for them if they if they seek some kind of help for it. But if you want to do some help that's not in your in your backyard, you need to find the organizations, whether it's within the government or with its one inn in

a private entity that's doing something. Then then it's a little bit more complicated, which is really what we did. We that's what we created. We are raising money as much as we can, and then we have an amazing team that will identify and locate the groups and the and the and the the abilities to help people the most efficient way, you know, almost like the most you will get out of your dollar percentage wise, everything you're gonna give, essentially, we'll go to the organizations that are

the best. So some somebody really just asked us to do that for them, you know, the NFL for example. You know they've had so many people, so many organizations asking them for donations to help. Um there's a point where they just kind of said, you know, this is a world that we don't really understand the best place to put them, So they came to us as they're ones that would be uh in charge of finding where

that money should go. So people donate to the NFL so they know that it's now going with a professional team that will find a good place. That's incredibly flattering. It's a it's a test of it to the work you've done to the NFL. Would would trust you with that and say help us help people? Yeah, yeah, I mean other other governments have done the same, other countries

that want to donate. I mean Qatar, who's got the largest US base, uh in all of the Middle East, you know, in the country of Qatar, and they want to do a lot for the veterans, and they wanted to donate you know, millions of dollars and they just came straight to us to do that. So we've got people that want we have confidence from other people to do it. But that's really what people want to do.

They want to make sure that there that their desire has met, that their money is going to the right place. But there really are accomplishing something. And that's why we have these people to do it. But I have to say, my wife, my wife, and I uh make sure that people know that we do not make that decision at all.

This money goes you know, we have we are the angels, and then we got the devils, who are the ones that say, am sorry, we can't fund that one, you know, so we have applications in if you want some money, then uh, some donations come to us. Put all this information together and apply for it. And those that don't get it, some of them are friends of ours that we met and they ask, okay, I can't you guys approve us? No, we are the angels. True, but Lee and I we do not make any of these decisions.

That don't blame us for well. The foundation is certainly um an outgrowth of your experience as the foul that one instant in Iraq and and put your life on a course you never would have imagined. So much is focused on, rightfully, so what is lost? What is lost in war as a nation? What is lost among individuals? Obviously a loss can be a part of a limb. It can be um, mental, emotional. What was gained for you other than this the foundation of the awareness that

hears how to help? What? What did what came out of that, that moment and the aftermath that changed you as a person, That you can say in the in the gain lost column, that was something that came out of this for me that I never would have expected. You know, I think I've there's several things is you know, one is I don't think I had the same fear of death that I did before. In some ways, I kind of already lived through it. You know, I don't remember anything at all from when I was out, but

I did when I woke up. My my brother Jimmy came into the rooms, one of the first guys that I saw when I when I woke up, and he asked me, Wow, it's great to have you back. I wasn't and I said, well, all I really remember was, you know, when I was hit, my body was floating below me, and I looked down and saw it while I was unconscious. What I do remember right now it was kind of like whiteness, and there was no pain.

And some ways I said to him, I said, Jimmy, I uh, some ways I I would be okay just going back where I was, you know, in some ways it was not as complicated as it is now. Now. That's not like a near death experience, but it's certainly one that I realized that it's not really that bad, so that that is kind of a positive thing to it all. The second one is kind of an interesting story that my little my little daughter Norah. I've got

twin adorable little girls. And they were five years old when I was hit and about you know, six months after I came back, still had all of these wounds all over my body, and I couldn't remember a lot of things. Um. And she, my daughter asked me. She asked. She was talking to my wife Lee, and she says, Mom, you know, uh, dad's head seems to have that because they cut off part of my skull. You've got that dented head and Mom, don't worry. That's They're gonna put

that skull back on. It'll be fun. And Mom, he's got all of these scars all over his back. Don't worry, sweet, that I'll get better. And my dad's got all these little pieces of metal and rocks, you know, implanted in the left part of his jaw. She says, don't worry. Those popping out one at a time. That's gonna be fine. And she said, you know, mom, noll the I think my dad loves me even more than he did before. Now, whether that was an expression of it, um, maybe it

indicated something. I felt so lucky to be alive, so that was a positive part. I think. I think maybe in some ways maybe I did change personality wise, I don't know. I I'm sure there's always with depression. There's all sorts of snaps that happened. This is not a Combaya story, but there are some things that maybe are better about me. I also because I got dramatic brain injury, nor logical that I actually passed the test for the qualification to go ahead and get my my vaccine shot

the other day. So you know, I was able to get on even though I'm not even I'm only fifty nine and a half, so I didn't even pass. Otherwise, there you go, I could use that for not to give my vaccine. Well, it's certainly a deepened sense of gratitude, whether that's loving more fully or just appreciating every breath more deeply. UH is a positive offshoot. It's not a Combayot story for so many there's so many serious day to day challenges, but deepening a sense of gratitude is

something that come out of it. They can have a positive effect on people's lives and in many many ways. You continue to do very important reporting. Always bring great humanity to these causes, and I say causes because these are very very big stories, usually involving people that are being abused or taking advantage over or slaughtered and pretty much appreciate the work he continued to do in that area. Chris, you know, I listen, I've never been so satisfied with

what we've done with the foundation that we've got. I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give up. I'm not going to surrender, as Churchill once said, and that's for sure, this is gonna go on and listen to the perfect world, we won't need the foundation because everything is gonna be fine.

But the scary thing is, I think we we still have more battles in the future or whatever they may be, whether it's a birth, asymmetrical wars and bombs and who knows, maybe even some kind of you know, COVID number two. But we're gonna always have something where people in our country are going to serve intensely and there will be an impact on them that may be negative. So I think the country always wants to make sure that that we will help those because this is not a you know,

a draft war. You know, you're not forced to participate in the military. It's your decision to do it. And it means that we don't be forced to do it. Ourselves are really now at our age. That's our our children and grandchildren do don't have to go to the war if the war set up system continues where it's all voluntary war military. So we just always want to

do something people that serve. It's interesting right now those that are on the front lines of the new kind of war, the invisible war of of of COVID, you know, those are the ones that are now serving our war, you know, and we are people people in America, in America, I think we've now become that way. We want to help those that are doing so much for those that we need, that we want that we love that are

suffering through something. In this case, those that are in the hospitals and they are taking the risk, you know, they're the ones that hitting are being hit by an invisible coronavirus, which is the new kind of I E. D. So I just want everybody know that there's something that everybody can do for those that have served. It was much more intensely for the military from the sands of our Afghanistan, and now it's continues to do that for

the long long term damage that it's caused. But now the as new ones, and so it's never there's nothing. There's no reason we will ever give up because we're kind of a connection between what people want to do something and those that need something, and that there's nothing that feels better than that. And wonderfully put, I think

America is a grateful nation, bighearted nation. But making sure that the awareness and the attention span match that, I think it's important because you're right, there will not be an end to conflicts or problems, and that's another motivation. I think it's a motivation for Americans to do something for them because there's a point where this system may not continue anymore if it looks like we're not going

to really treat them with dignity. Those that do volunteer to take the risks to whether it's in the hospital, where it's in the stands of the war. You know, if we if that doesn't happen, if we just stop supporting those that are still needs after serving, then maybe the next system will be a draft again. You know, then we will people are not gonna want to volunteer, and therefore we're gonna have to make your grandchild do it instead, you know, even though he doesn't want to

it doesn't have the ability to do so. So I think there's a there's a motivation to continue to do something for the for the military if you can. I love hearing that your foundation will never give up or surrender. I appreciate the UH. Grateful for your time, for your example, if your expertise, and then and for sharing your story and what others can do to help. Bob, thanks so much.

What's great to see christ And maybe we'll be out there and UH side by side, you know, to do some more reporting about that's it's like you and I did a few years ago. Keep an eye out. The Warrior Games for Adaptive sports athletes, sponsored by the Department of Defense, return in September at Disney's Wild World of Sports in Orlando. Our hope is that the episodes with Bob and Kyante's story have deepened your understanding. Maybe who as inspired by their examples as I am, and their

time of greatest danger and difficulty. Both of them put others first and with the help of others, became stronger, stayed active, kept moving forward, not just surviving, but thriving for more. I really recommend the book co written by Bob and his talented wife Lee in an instant a family's journey of love and healing. Also, if I should learn more about the Bob Woodrow Foundation. They do tremendous work.

Thanks as always of my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster, producer Jason whiteckeld, and thanks to you for listening in. Want you to subscribe, rate and review the podcast, and lead any input or comments on the Instagram at Chris Fowler. I'll talk to you soon.