INSPIRING TRAVEL

the impressive title. But Outside Magazine bestowed on Kelly Edwards Modern Adventurer, travel host, mountain climber, deep water diver and pilot, having a passenger in the plane with you for the very first time, and that you tricked them into getting the plane in the first place, and you say they're taking them to lunch. I'm taking you to lunch. Well, why are we at the airport because I'm going to fly us there. That's why you have that kind of friend.

And then literally going into an emergency situation, having to rock my wings, making sure I'm communicating with the tower because they can't hear me, and landing the plane immediately. I mean, I've had so many experiences, but it does not stop me from always getting back up there. Because if you've ever felt what it's like to have the yoking your hand in an aircraft and know that that plane is going where you wanted to go, it's a

power that you never want to really push. For me, the greatest moment of my life, and I really mean this was reaching the South Pole. To to be at a latitude line and to think where you are on the world. You know, it's just like, holy shit, every single thing for me is up, you know, And this I felt the same way when I went to the North Pole, and I'm like, this is so cool and everything on Earth is blow me right now. And I'm,

you know, still one of a handful of people. I think it's like four or five people in history have been to every country in both poles. Okay, Antarctica just moved higher up my list of places that I want to visit. If you longed for the care free days just taken off for somewhere exploring changing latitude and attitude, I'm right there with you. Both my guests, Kelly Edwards and Leebamonte, have such passion and curiosity any talking to them reminded me how important how vital travel has been

to me and to Jennifer. So if you feel like being transported and inspired to seek new experiences, just as soon as safer day's return, you're gonna enjoy meeting them. Kelly is a pioneer who's building her empire. She was the first black woman to host her own travel TV series, Mysterious Islands. She's become an influential force and travel journalism. Kelly fully embraces any adventure, great and small that she

can think of. Well, Kelly, I'm so excited to talk with you and hear your ideas and your experiences and your messagers too would be travelers. But I gotta say first, we probably could have done this podcast recording at the summit of a fourteen thousand foot peak in Summit County, Colorado, because you missed each other by one day in Recoverens this summer, and we both share a passion from mountains, So maybe another time. Right. Absolutely, I'll meet you at

any fourteen or you're ready to Summit. I'm there, let's do it. The passion for mountains, I mean, like you, I grew up in Illinois, there were no mountains nearby. But I know you you've talked about that moment when you realize that mountain scenery and being in mountain was going to be important to you. Absolutely. It was when I was leaving Chicago as a young child with my

mother headed to California on the Greyhound bus. And as you said, there are no mountains anywhere near Chicago, and so as a young child to see mountains for the first time, it was literally one of the most memorable and powerful experiences in my childhood and it totally shaped me. When I saw him for the first time, I pointed to them and I said, Mom, those look like buried Braunosaurus is because of the huge hump, that's what I thought a mountain was. And my mom said, no, those

are called mountains, Kelly. I thought there were buried dinosaurs, and I was just so fascinated at their presence, at their I can't even find the word to to describe what it's like to see something that is literally so monumental when all you've seen your young life is city blocks and skyscrapers. You know, a lot of Chicagoans, especially where I come from, you know, living on the South side of Chicago, as close as we are to Lake Michigan, you'd be surprised at how many people have never even

been to to Lake Michigan, to the beach. So for me to be taking out of that element and to see the world in the landscape from Chicago to California, I knew that I had to have a place in a connection to the new landscapes I was seen. Mountains taught me to have big goals because you see them, you think, oh my god, that is so humongous. Maybe some day I could get up there, and then you realize that, I mean literally a couple of weeks later,

we were on top of them. I thought, wait a minute, let's not view these things as so far off, insurmountable. You can do it. You just don't even know what. You don't know about it yet, And if you open yourself up, life changing experiences traveling fascinate me. It sounds like you had one on that airplane. What other things come to mind? Where you in in a lightning bolt sort of altered your perspective, or or saw beauty that was just so moving that it was kind of burned

into your brain forever. I'd have to say, it's gonna sound so simple, but it meant a lot to me. It was the first time I had saw my dad, my stepfather, leave the sand in California and walk into the ocean and swim. And when I say, he disappeared down the shoreline current and came up for me, as a child looked like twenty minutes later, and he was fearless, and to see how powerful the ocean was, and that

he blended so magnificently with it it. I became fascinated with the ocean as well, but my fascination did not allow me to step foot and start swimming in the ocean until I was older, because it is incredibly powerful. And so I find between the mountains and the ocean, these things that have such dynamics and prowess and presence

that they really did change me. And so I believe that day that I saw my dad walk into the ocean and swim and saw the beauty of the ocean, I said, this is the world is made of water. Where else can I go and have this moment? You know? And now you're deep water scuba diver exactly. I went from literally being being stuck on the sand to going to the depths of the ocean looking for shipwrick dives,

diving with whale sharks, free diving. I love. I love the ocean because there's so much about it that's unknown and the mystery of it it keeps drawing me back. I'm a person, I'm who loves to explore. I'm an explore at heart, and so anything that there's still questions, I'm always seeking the answer. I think for me, a life changing moment was seeing Because I'm a diver as well,

I'm a little rusty. I gotta get back and do more of it because it's easy to let the years go by and you realize that, um, you haven't been on the water in a while. But you know, seeing a shark doing a night dive and seeing a more a eel kind of weird. I mean, those are things. I think they're so charged and they're so exciting that you you literally I could go right back there in a second. I'm sure you've had experiences like that underwater too.

Oh absolutely. I swam with the whale shark in Broom, Australia, UH late last year in and it was massive. It was massive. And that same day I swam with a hump back well, which I had no idea it could move that fast. The way it turned around and whipped towards me, I literally almost like lost my breath, Like holy smokes, you realize it came right at you, came right towards me, and I thought it was the day was gonna be over he that was gonna be the

end of me. But you know, the creatures are so magnificent, and I love, really, really really love having these encounters with animals in their natural habitats. It really doesn't get any better than that. Whether it's in land, see air, no birds. I don't want any birds to fly by the plane. That's always a hazard. However, but you know, I spent a lot of time in the great outdoors, and so I've come across bare moves, I've seen wolves, you know, foxes, and I'm always just in awe. It's

pretty incredible. I can relate. You mentioned the skies. I wanted to go there next because besides being a scuba divy, you're also a pilot. So being in the skies or underwater, there's some things that are they share in common, I think. But being detached from terra firma in a great way. What is it about that experience that um in the moment you love but also maybe changes your perspective from

when you're back on the ground. Sure, I'll see. The most powerful thing for me about being in the air is a sense of freedom, right, the freedom that I have to take myself where I choose to go. The freedom of looking at the world below from a new perspective, the freedom of flight, Uh, feeling like a bird in a way. You know, that bird's eye view is truly unparalleled. And I'm not at thirty thousand feet in the clouds,

you know, like on a commercial airliner. I fly a lot of general aviation aircrafts like Cessna's Piper Cherokees Serious icon A five where I'm at six feet and I'm seeing the mountains of the desert, the shoreline, and I also have my seaplane ratings, so I could also land on the water, and so that ability to be in the air, Oh my gosh, it was the best thing that I've done for my life. And a few of my friends who think that they can just call me up and take them somewhere, Hold on, buddy, hold on

sky uber No, I think that's cool. You've you've taken some small planes into some treacherous air And how much of it was that adrenaline rush? Do you do you think you have that component in you? I mean, was it unintentionally an adventure or did you seek that out? So I seek adventure for sure. However, in an airplane you have to respect the air you have to respect

the limitations of what the aircraft is capable of. And I intend on having a very long life for as long as I'm meant to be on this earth, and so I'm not a fool. So the times where I've had situations have definitely While you can check the weather and you'll have the weather on your um, you know what the tools that I used to know what it's like where I'm headed, I will say that I've had

some surprises and they are scary. I mean, I remember flying in the Illusion chain Um headed out to nicole Ski, Alaska, and the weather said, I don't care that you have a place to be. I don't care. I'm going to turn your round two, three, four or five times because right now I'm running this thing. And so I literally was headed from Dutch Harbor to Nicolesky, Alaska for a shoe and we literally had to turn around I think three or four times. We just could not get over

there into the weather cooperated. And you know, I can say, as a person who you know, also fly solo a lot, I've had times where I've had avionics go out, which means I cannot communicate to air traffic control towers or other pilots. Being in the airplane by yourself trying to fix a system is not fun, you know, So I have to trim the plane out, make sure I'm straightening level um, trying to literally become like an aircraft mechanic

in the middle of the sky. Not fun. So I've also had times where you know, I'm taking off and you can, you know, lose an alternator and have to go into an emergency procedure, having a passenger in the plane with you for the very first time that you tricked them into getting in the plane in the first place because you say you're taking them to lunch. I'm taking you to lunch. Well, why are we at the airport because I'm going to fly us there. That's why

you have that kind of friend. And then literally going into an emergency situation, having to rock my wings, making sure I'm communicating with the tower because they can't hear me, and landing the plane immediately. I mean, I've had so many experiences, but it does not stop me from always getting back up there. Because if you've ever felt what it's like to have the yok in your hand and an aircraft and know that that plane is going where you want it to go. It's a power that you

never want to relinquish. I'm with you on flying adventurous places. I've had lots of um unintentionally adventurous flights and small planes, but not not at the controls. I'm good with someone else doing the control. You said something though, that that I think it's important for all people who love nature. You have a passion for it, but you respect the power of it, whether you're in the skies, under the water. I don't ever use the term conquering a mountain. I

don't think you conquer or visit it. You pay respect to it and you leave. But nature is not something to be overcome or conquer. We are in nature. It's all together. And I think it's it's cool that you've had that that lesson reinforced under the water and in the skies and on land too. You've been able to turn your passion into a a fast growing empire, which is so cool. Well done with that. It's going to

get bigger and bigger. I I just know. But what do you describe to people general question the power of travel? If you had to put it into words, I would say that the power of travel is humbling. It's necessary. And when I say travel, I don't want people to think that that means going across the world. Travel can be the town that you live in, exploring that the town next door, the state over. It's connecting with communities, cultures, people opposite genders of who you are to learn what

makes the world go round. And from me, it's really changed the woman that I am as far as how I pay respect to my fellow man, my fellow human. Um. It also makes me check how I move in my own life. Um. When you go to some of these places that I've been, and you see they only have one water spickett for the entire town. Yet I turn on my water and it's running for five minutes before I get in it. You know, I have to say, there's people who don't have water. Why is your water

on for so long before you step in it? Um, you don't want to finish that plate of food, but there's people who would do anything to have that last bit. And so for me, it's it balances me and my day to day actions because I've traveled and been able to experience so much of the world, especially being a young black woman coming from the South Side of Chicago

and San Bernardino, California. These are not places that are very well known for um exploration and adventure, to say the least, And so I don't take it for granted. Um it's changed my life. I've seen it change other people's lives. I've introduced a lot of people to travel. I've purchased a lot of passports for Christmas for my friends. I feel like, no, I don't want to give you a pair of shoes. I'm going to give you this tool that you can see what you're made of in

the world. And I've had people on trips with me and on trips that they've taken themselves, and say, why didn't I do this earlier? And I say, at the end of the day, it's never too late to start. That's an awesome message. I think that it is important memory that adventure, you know, need not be exotic or far flung. Adventure just requires you to pack your curiosity right and be open to learning things and seeing things. And you can have adventures within the city you live

right if you in your mind. So, what's the most mundane place that you visited? You ended up having an adventure and and some great memories of mm hmmm. I'd say I wasn't expecting too much out of like Joshua Tree because it looks like there's just like a bunch of Joshua trees, if that's what they're called, everywhere out there, and a lot of a lot of rock formations, and it's really really hot. Oh my gosh. I went camping out there overnight. I had never seen the stars so clear,

so close to Los Angeles. You have a spiritual experience out there, and it was incredible, absolutely without any assistance. I mean, just a natural spiritual experience exactly, no, totally natural, and I mean when I say natural, just me, myself and me, no no additives. But I had a moment out there between the hiking, between looking at the beautiful rock formations, between being fascinated about how creatures survive in

this climate. Um, I was really really shocked because for me, I love to find I need the trees, I want to see the moss, I need the streams and the rivers and hike to the lake, to the glaciers, and so to be in a desert, I was like, oh, well, this could be okay. No. As soon as that sunset, I said, Oh, this place is gorgeous and you can find stunning things and and the things that you least expect.

And so that's something that caught me a bit off guard because I usually go to places specifically looking for the I know the beauties there already. You know you're such a great storyteller. You're painting a picture. I'm wanna leave the city right now, would like to hang off. I just want to go out thea nature after hearing that, But what do you say to friends that you buy passports for, or just people you come in contact with and they say, Kelly, without judging them, I want to

just be comfortable. I just want to relax, um fearful of this, or if they don't use the word fear, they're just reluctant. They don't want to be uncomfortable. And if that's the case, you can have nice vacations, but you may be shutting yourself off from experiences. You have a message when you hear that. Yes, I say all the time. Everything you want is on the other side of fear, for one. So if there's something out there that you're interested in doing, but you just don't know

how to begin. Let's look into that and life mus begins at the end of your comfort zone. Okay, it really does. And so while I also love to lay on the beach and have a nice beverage and listen to the waves lapping amongst the sand, that's fine. However, they're so often so much more there for you only if you're willing to explore and see it with your eyes. I don't force adventure on anyone. People are seeing through my journey that they can do it too, right, and

it makes them curious. The only thing I'm trying to do is spark curiosity. And if I can do that, your brain will do the rest of the work for me, because it will be in your subconscious of man, I keep saying no to that, but it sure keeps popping up in my thoughts. Maybe it's time to try. And I tell people all the time all I do is just try everything. I'm not an expert in anything. I don't know at all. I'm consistently and constantly learning. And

you can do the same thing too. We both wake up and we put two feet on the ground to start our day. What are you gonna do with yours? I classify travel as either it's a vacation or and are like you said, lay in the beach, a trip, you got other places you experience things, and then an adventure. And I think it's nice to have a balance of all three. Right whatever we all need to chill out, need not be demanding, but it's also need to just

go somewhere. Did you ever have the notion you want to go to some big international airport, look at the flight board, You've packed versatile clothing, you pack lightly, and just look at the board and go, I'm gonna go to is Stembul, or I'm gonna go to Bangkok. I've never done that, but my wife and I have talked about doing that at some point that we will. That

would be amazing and an incredibly expensive ticket the day of. However, hey, I think that would be an absolute amazing experience to do. And you're sparking a thought in me right now that maybe that will be. Who knows, We're all end up what's available, and hey, especially right now, I mean we have such limited choices. It's like, okay, we've got these five places there to get to that in a second.

But I also want to ask you, why do you think that the travel experience, and maybe specifically the adventure travel experience, has all been filtered through a mail lens, and specifically a white male lens. Until you why did it take so half long? And how does he how do you feel about being a pioneer in that area? I love talking about this, Chris, I knew you did. So to answer your first question, how do I feel about adventure being through a white male lens? I think

it's a tragedy. And that is because when you think about the explorers of the world, they are not all white males. If you think about the Inca Trail, the Native people who lived there were running that trail. When you think about America, the Native Americans knew this land before anyone came here. I think about Matthew Henson, who was the first person to reach the North Pole, who was also a black man. Where is his story? Why

don't we hear more about him? When we think about aviation and pilots, we hear about the Wright brothers and Howard Hughes, But what about Bessie Coleman. We hear about Amelia Earhart, right, But Bessie Coleman was the first black woman to get her pilot's license in a year before

Amelia Earhart. And so there are so many different faces that are having adventures, and yet the narrative between media, marketing, television, film all show up in the face of the white male at the top of Everest with the chiseled jaw looking out the side. And I'll tell you, I've been to some of these same mountains that they've been and

I look nothing like them at all. And so why it's taken so long for a person like myself to appear in this space is because media was not comfortable with the truth that there are other people, because they were appealing to their core consumer, because that is what's been ingrained in our society. And so when people start to become aware of me, I can't tell you how many times I was told, Wow, we love you. We've

never seen anyone like you on our network. You're also doing more things than people are on our network, but we don't know how our audience will take to you. Do you know? Do you know how that that that feels? It's very frustrating. But what I did instead, as I came up with the plan, I said, Okay, you guys aren't ready I stay ready. I'm going to continue having

my adventures. I'm going to continue exploring by land there and see as a diver, mountaineer, outdoors woman, and dance open water diver, and I'm going to start getting attention from other people who find it interesting and want to give me press. And then you guys will come calling back and it won't be me looking for you, It'll

be you looking for me. And that's what happened. So I took my power back because I was trying to ask for permission to be represent it and have presents and instead said, no, I don't need to ask permission

for that. I'm already here. This is also my world to explore to what's for the most gratifying reaction to that position, because no one needs permission to travel with if you see things constantly filtered through a middle aged white guy lens and may not spark your imagination in the same way for some folks that that seeing you do these things does. So what's been the best feedback you've gotten in terms of Kelly, you really open my eyes, you changed my perspective, or I feel liberated now to

do things that I didn't before. Sure, I've had a few examples. There was a fifty five year old woman who came up to me and says she started taking swimming lessons because she saw me swimming in the water on television. I'm like, I'm sorry. She's like, yeah, no, I I it's time for me to learn how to swim. And so I started taking lessons because I saw you.

I have parents writing letters to me on behalf of little girls, saying that my daughter saw you on television or in this magazine, and she now knows that she can be an explored too, and that she can fly planes to UM. I had a little girl who was picked on UM as a tomboy uh and and on her block, and the mom reached out to me to say that I went to show my daughter. Sorry, I don't want to cry it. My daughter was getting picked on by these boys because of her loving being outside

and the outdoors. And I wanted to show her women doing these things too, And so I googled you and I brought you up, and she said, oh my gosh, mommy, she's she's a girl like me. I can do I can do these things. It's not just for boys. So when you get that type of feedback from young women, people of color, people who have never thought they can do any of these things, and just my presence changes

their perspective. It's been very powerful. I never set out to be a role model, um, but I'm proud that through me living my life and leading by example, people know that it is not inaccessible for them, because it truly is. And I don't want other people to even to have to wait on me to do something to think that they can do it. I say, charge your own path, you know, do what makes you happy, do what you're curious about, and then you'll find out who

you are as a person. Don't even be better than me, I say all the time. Don't stop where I stop. That's just a foundation. Shoot for the stars. Like literally, someone become an astronaut. Thank you. That's so powerful. I think it's because you didn't set out to do it. You didn't set out to be a pioneer necessarily or a role model. It just came from place of authenticity. That's what I think makes it more powerful and stronger connection with people. That's that's cool. Um, most interesting woman

in the world. That's some title to have. Oh boy, could create some pressure in the way that a comedian feels that need to be funny every time he's around strangers. I mean, what do you find most interesting about yourself? Not a not an easy question for a lot of people to answer, not at all, Holy shmokes. I've never even thought about that, but if I had to right now, I think the most interesting thing about myself is that I have escaped a narrative that was created for me.

I'm I literally said, I am this, and I am not that. I'm not that. There's no way I'm going to allow anyone to pigeonhole me, to stereotype me two think that I'm not capable of something. I'm going to show up and learn what I'm supposed to do here with my time on Earth. And so I think the most fascinating thing about me is that I have literally created my own narrative without the guidance of anyone who's

done it prior to me. The way I'm doing these things, and I get the sense that you're still creating there's still more dimensions. Yeah, wait and see what the next projects are, what the new dimensions are, because, Uh, talking to you, it feels like things are limitless. But unfortunately I do want to get around to the limits that have been placed on us because travel has been put on pause. Everybody knows that it's been difficult to go anywhere for a while, and they're very uncertain about when

and how that's going to look in the future. So I know you get ask a lot this, but what what would you say to someone who said, Kelly, I've I've been to these places before, but I'm worried about going back, or I've never had the chance to experience these places I've meant to now I haven't been able to. How would you allay those concerns for the people in the post pandemic assuming we can get a vaccine and things will be getting back to UM closer than what

they were before. Sure, So I'd like to preface that with the fact that I have been traveling during the pandemic um very cautiously, very safely, and there are ways to navigate UM while being considered of your own health and that of others. And if we're talking, you know, post pandemic, I say, if anything, with the quarantine and having to stay put, that is the time to pay attention to your bucket list, right If there's a place

you want to go and it's open. As we can see that this world can be turned upside down in a minute. Do not wait a year longer two explore, um, look at the safety precautions there, Respect the rules in place there, respect the airplane rules. You know, there's still people who don't want to keep on a mask while they're flying. And I just really wish people would realize it's not always necessarily about you, It's also about the

person next to you. This is a time to understand, um, how to come together as a community for your fellow mankind so that we can literally get out of this. So for me, I literally have not only a face mask a face shield, I have a full body suit. UM, I have hand sanitizer wipes. I have a key that is attached to my key chain that I don't have to touch any doors, even bathroom doors. And so I am fully equipped to to still travel because I take

the necessary precautions. So if you think you're just going to pack your bag and head to the airport like old times, know that the that's no longer the case. Let's let's talk about the abstract world beyond all this. And I'm sure you get this question. But it's always interesting to me to think about adventures you haven't had but you've dreamt of, and what what one or two of those might be, and and what your expectations are

for those places. Absolutely, so, I want to go to Antarctica really, really bad, because it's not an easy destination to reach, and the wildlife is incredible. I want to see the glaciers. Um. I would love to do some sort of scientific research down there. I know they have several stations um that are looking into the effects of you know, global warming and pollution on our system, I

mean on our in our world. You know, you would be surprised at how many of the plastics that are in the ocean end up all the way down in Antarctica and are being trapped um in in the ice and in the glaciers. And so I would love to have my bill neither science guy moment down in Antarctica. UM. Could you other air strips down there? Forget my ignorance? Can you can you get a plane and get down there and see Antarctica from the air. I'm sure you

can because they definitely have airstrips down there. Um. It won't be in a little CESSI and I'll think I'll need something with a little bit more power, um, just because that is also very much in no man's land in a lot of ways. So you want to be able to have some some power to you know, carry um some extra gear with you, to say the least, to be prepared for anything. I'd also love to go to Borneo. Um. That is a place where they have so many unknown species, tons of well known species. It's

it's the jungle. And I think I'm Laura Croft and Indiana Jones, and so I want to be in the jungle with my machete, traversing the land and you know, put these survival skills I have to test in the extreme environment like that. I've seen some posts with you with with skeletons. I'm not sure that you're the tomb raider, but I've seen you. I've seen you in some tombs. So that's that's so inspiring. It's so much fun. I hope the woman from South South Chicago gets to the

South Pole someday. I know it's gonna it's gonna be really cool and interesting and inspiring to see what you've got at your sleeve next. And uh, I really enjoyed this time than just keep just keep being you, Kelly, because it's exciting to observe. Oh, thank you so much, Chris. I really appreciate your time and you are amazing in so many ways, so it's been an honor to speak to you as well. Kelly is one of the favorite

people that I met doing this podcast so far. You can check out her website and blog Kelly set go dot com, got a podcast with travel and leisure Let's Go Together, and her Instagram posts bring a smile on my face at Kelly Edwards. She spells Kelly k E double L double E. Lee Abbamonte lives in New York and during the shutdown months he explored the city just about every square foot of it on foot. His appetite for travel, all kinds of travel is incredible. His knowledge

is encyclopedic. It's actually kind of scary. If you need a Mexican restaurant in Morocco, Lee probably has a top three for you. Before meeting him, I thought I was a travel junkie. On a long flight last year, I grabbed the map from an airline magazine and countered off sixties six countries that I've been to. Not including autonomous territories like the Canary Islands or St. Martin, Alaska is the only state that I haven't visited, and it's very high on my to do list. But Lee has every

passport staff that you can collect. He didn't start out with the checklist, but eventually he figured why not checking off that last country? It was a brush with death. He would not recommend, but it's an unbelievable story to have and a good place to start. So Lee, you've visited every U N recke now this country except one, and the one is Libya, and you choose to go at a pretty interesting time in the history of that country. Tell me the story of the country to finally let

you check off all of them. Yeah. So back in Uhleven, I had been to about a hundred hundred ninety or so countries and the hundred so I went on this big trip and I was going to go to some of the more romantic destinations like Somalia, Algeria, Sudan, and Libya. And at that time I was able to get to

three of those four. And then the Arab Spring happened and Libya was no flies on all of a sudden, you know, all the drama that went on down there, and I wasn't able to get there in March when I went so in August, I got an email from a guy I know in Cairo and he's like, yeah, I think you can get into the border of Egypt and Libya and kind of sneak in there because there's

nobody guarding the border. Basically, I was like, okay, cool, And I literally got on a plane at New York and flew to Cairo and then flew out to this remote desert outpost called Mercer Mutro, which no one's ever heard of. It's about three hundred miles from the border, right And I get there. I have no idea what I'm gonna do. And I literally had like five thousand dollars in my pocket, and I figured I was gonna

have to pay somebody something. And uh, I like, don't speak but three words of Arabic and I get off the plane and I had no idea, and I'm like this guy over here, he's wearing a like, uh, you know, a sport code with our Libyan rebel of pell pans, so he maybe he speaks English. I go over to him, so do you speak English? He goes yeah, and I go here's what I'm trying to do. And he looks at me like I got seven heads. He's like, what do you want to go into Olivia? Like what? And uh?

And I was like can you translate to the taxi driver him drive me to the border. And he goes, well, then what are you gonna do? I'm like, I have no idea. And then he goes, all right, listen, kid, you're gonna come in the car with me. My brother is coming from to Brook, Olivia with a minivan and we're gonna drive across the border and we're gonna smuggle you in. And I'm like, oh, that sounds great, man, awesome. Yeah. It didn't even occur to me that this is weird, right,

It was just like so excited. And so we go fast or three hundred miles. Okay, we're at the border with these two Libyan guys who had never met before, and we're in line at the border. We leave Egypt and we're in line at the border of Olibya. Right. Uh,

you know, seemed normal, seemed normal, seem normal. All of a sudden, we're about three or four cars back, about thirty forty ft from the actual like border itself where you show the passports, but on the other side of the border, this big truck of Chinese smugglers trying to smuggle fake Marlborough's cigarettes from Libya into Egypt because they

didn't want to have to pay the Egyptian tariff. Because there was no government in Libya, they thought they could smuggle it in without having to pay, So, you know, it seemed like a good idea, right. The only problem was the Libyan rebels were at that point controlling the border where they hadn't been I guess prior, and they started arguing about the payment blah blah blah. There was about fifty Chinese guys on top of this truck and then there's probably I don't know, fifteen or twenty Libyan

rebels and they're all armed. And then these guys just start shooting at each other and on the other side of the border were it away, and all of a sudden, the car gets hit three times and I'm in the back of this car with these people who I don't know, and I'm like, go, go, go, you know, and uh go and go and go where they're firing like into the like like just I'm like back on, yeah, and the guy like slams on the on the gas like backwards, hits the car behind him like peels out like basically

into the desert about half a mile, I think. And meanwhile, I'm like ducking, But I'm also kind of like looking through the window, you know, to see what the hell is going on, and uh, you know, we sat there for about three hours, right and you can see, like, you know, there's like dead people, and uh, all of a sudden, the guy goes to me, Okay, I think we can go now, and I'm like, okay, man, sure. Here I am in the middle of no man's land

between Egypt and Olivia. And we go back in line and we're about you know, four or five cars back again, and the guy goes, okay, give me your passport, and I was like, okay, here's my passport. And they whispered some stuff to his his brother in Arabic, and then he turns to me and he goes, all right, kid, here's the deal. And I'm like okay. He goes, You're gonna be a humanitarian dentist going into Libya to do dental work for the Libyan people. And I'm like, dude,

I'm not a dentist. Like, what are you talking about? He goes, it doesn't matter. Nobody in Libya has straight teeth. To just smile, points your teeth and that's like all you need to do. So I give my passport, we get to the to the border. He whispers some stuff in Arabic to the other guy. Guy looks at my passport, looks at me, and he smiles and he points to his teeth, and he just goes, welcome to Libya. And I did the exact same thing. And then I was

in Libya. I mean there's about three different spots there where Number one, they said sneak across the border. Before you left, you thought good idea. Then you hear the plan and it's like the US the word smuggle you in and you were still all in for that. And then there's been carnage of the border and you gotta loop back and go in there. Did you ever stop to think what happens once you get inside Libya? I mean, the gold is seeing it in the country. What the

all happens once you crush the border? Isn't that it's still a really dangerous place to be a percent but I figure, you know, I've been in war zones before, like I've been in Iraq, I've been in Afghanistan, had been in uh Iran, Somalia, Syria. So yeah, man. So I was like, okay, I got this. I just got to get across and then I can kind of figure it out. And this guy really seemed to know what he was talking about. It was like a sixth sense, Like I felt comfortable with the guy even though I

didn't know him. I could tell like he knew what he was doing. It turns out the guy's like a u N dissident, right. He hadn't been in Libya in forty one years. Uh, he left when Kadafi took over, and he hadn't seen his family, and that long he was going back for the first time. It's like nineteen, you know, sixty whatever it was, and uh and I'm like, oh my god. And then he insists like that, I come to his family's apartment and like, you know, meet everybody.

And there was like fifty people in the apartment and none of them even cared that he was there. They all just wanted to like stare at me and like take pictures and like practice their English. And asked me questions. It was like crazy, man. It was like one of those moments if you don't put yourself in these absolutely ridiculous situations, you don't understand. But it's just like one of those moments where you felt like humanity was okay.

You know, well that's a great, happy ending. But did it ever occur to you You You might be that guy that pops up on CNN American citizen taking a hostage, and now you become the focal point of some international incident, you know, and they have to get you out of there. Oh yeah, I thought about that a few times. It wasn't This wasn't the only time I thought that might happen.

So yeah, but I mean, in hindsight, it was like stupid, obviously, But at the same time, it makes a good story to be chapter one of my book, and uh yeah, it's it's fun to tell there. I mean, I love to talk to people about life changing moments and travel and they can take on different forms. They can be moments that after the fact you realize why that was very important. My perspective was changed. I was a different

person afterwards. And then there are also moments where you're aware of it in that second, Like you realize the minute you put your eyes on something, or there might be an aroma that you smell or or someone that you meet that right now this moment, I'm not going to be quite the same. I'm changed. I'm inspired in a new way. Give me an example of something right in the moment other than being an a war zone where you realized, Wow, just take all this in because

I'm not going to be quite the same after this. Yeah, there's been a couple of times where that's really happened to me. And when I say a couple, I mean like dozens for sure. And uh, but I'll go back to the first time it happened to me. I grew up in Trumble, Connecticut and never traveled as a kid. My family didn't have any money, and uh, it was never a thing. I never even thought about it. You know.

All I did was play sports, watch sports, hanging out with my friends, and you know, I just wanted to not struggle like my parents. So I was just focused on, like getting a degree and making money. Anyway. I studied

abroad my junior in college. I went to the University of Maryland and then I went out to London, and you know, I just remember getting off the plane in Heathrow and uh, just hearing the voices and then like we were trying to get a cab right and it was like one of those old school London black cabs, and you know, it was like blew me away and they drive on the other side of the street in London, you know, and uh, you know, this is September. It was actually the day Mark McGuire hit his sixty first

home run that year that I landed in London. I was freaked out that I was going to miss the end of the home run race because I'm a huge baseball guy, and uh, you know, but then as soon as I landed, I almost kind of forgot about it. And I was in London and it just blew my mind. And then two weeks later we took the chunnel to to Paris. You know, it was crazy about Paris. They speak French in France. Heard that unbelievable to me at the time, and I was like, oh my god, this

is just mind blowing stuff. And everything that I've ever seen on TV or read in books. I'm like, I'm like living a book right now, or I'm like living one of these crazy TV travel shows that I you know, I had seen on television as a kid, and it just was crazy. And that continued that whole year in Europe, and um, that just changed my my whole life, my whole perspective everything. I think the first thing you lay eyes on Paris, for a lot of people, it has

an immediate connection. UM yeah, I think you're like me. I we didn't travel as a family glamorously. We didn't have a bunch of money. We loaded up the family in the station where again and we drove around. And for me as a kid, a big life changing moment was eating lobster at a restaurant in Maine with the bib on you. I remember, I had never had a lobster before and they made my parents made a big deal out of it. And there we were where you saw the live lobster and then you see it cooked.

The next thing you know, it's on your plate. And and visiting the Kellogg's factory in Battle Creek, Michigan, and taking a jeep tour through Bison and the Black Hills of South Dakota. That's what we did. I know, there are lots of kids that are fortunate enough to take these big exotic international trips, but maybe maybe not having that as kids. And I talked to Kelly Edwards about

this another guest, and she felt the same way. We you know it just we were never exposed to it, so you kind of sponge it up and you dive in with enthusiasm once you get a chance to do it when you're older. Yeah, it was. I've never not appreciated anything I've ever done, like every single time I traveled, even now when I've been everywhere, I still appreciate everything, and I never take it for granted because it could

have never happened. I mean if I, uh, if I didn't go to abroad, I mean, who knows if I ever would have traveled. I mean, I'm sure I would have at some point in my life, but at the same time, it never would have been what ended up happening. And I was always I always like maps, and I

always read a lot as a kid about stuff. I liked history, and I love sports, so it all kind of like tied in when I went to Europe and then later in Australia and I got it really into aus rules football and things like f one in tennis and golf, and especially these soccer, These international sports really kind of brought me to places that I wouldn't have gone. Are you someone that strikes up conversations with the locals.

Is that an important part for you to to really get to know people or do you kind of keep to yourself? Oh? No, God, yeah, no, I'm I'm as outgoing as they come, and I love talking. But that's part of international sports that I think is significantly better, is that everyone kind of comes together and talks about it. And you said beer, I was called the international language of beer, because you know, everybody is just happy and having a good time and it's crazy. Especially soccer and rugby.

I think that those are the two most kind of communal games. Maybe not during a big soccer match when everybody's like on edge, but you know, before and after for sure, and rugby just the whole I was gonna ask you about the rugby. I wondered if rugby was one of your favorites because socially, especially the party seeing rugby is right at the top. Yeah, it's a bar It's a barbarians game played by gentlemen, as they say, and uh, you know they acted you know on the pitch,

but then they drank like gentlemen. Fans are not gentlemen, though my experience of rugby fans are more barbarian than gentlemen. And that's a beautiful thing when you can Yeah, I mean sports and beer that are two really big international languages. You throw food in there, and you've checked a lot of boxes. What I look about your philosophy is it's really and and people focus on the checklist and they focus on, hey, can I get a good picture? Can

I enhance my brand? Is its social media post ready? And that's not how you think. And I think that's what's important about trying to explain far flung travel to people have an experience. I mean, don't don't view it as though you're accomplishing something. View it as though you're experiencing something and opening yourself, uh to something that is a little bit uncomfortable, and you haven't. It's it's different,

is good, right, Yeah, it's funny. My My favorite saying is to be a real traveler, you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable and uh, you know, and for me, I've been in so many places in situations like that where I'm like, boy, this really stuffs, but this is awesome at the same time, you know, and uh, and I love that and uh, to me, there's nothing nothing better. And you mentioned like people doing things for the checklist

and stuff like that. I think it's okay to you know, have a list of places that you want to go and do them, but you got to do stuff there. You have to like experience it and do the things that they're are to do and talk to people who live there and experience it. That that's the real experience. And for me, you know, I started doing all this stuff long before social media and I just point to the country in the world because I wanted to. It wasn't like to impress anybody or to get on TV

or you know, do any of this stuff. I just did it because it was something I love to do and I just thought it would be cool. And uh, I never thought it would like lead to anything work wise or anything like that. It was just something I did. And uh. And now I see people are doing in different ways, and I'm like, all right, you know, to each of their own. But for me, um, what you

said is exactly correct. For me, comfortable with being uncomfortable doesn't always extend to roughing at the right aft to admit we traveled pretty softly now. I mean part of it is you see a great resort, you want the best room, You want to seek out the best meals. I know when you started though, like a lot of people, you know, it was backpacking, it was it was going around Europe, and it wasn't wasn't a five star accommodations. Do you think it's important for people when they start

out to do it rough first or does it? Does it make a difference, do they get a greater appreciation of the finer thing? Not everybody can afford it, obviously you're you're some some travel that way because there was no other choice and they just want to They want to see what they can on a shoestring budget. But did you did it make any difference to you that you did kind of start out doing it modestly one

million percent? And I'm glad you asked that because I always say the way I travel evolved as I evolved. So like when I first left the country at twenty years old, I mean, you're a twenty year old kid, You're you're dumb, you're young, you don't know anything. You

just want to have fun. I was excited that I could drink without a fake idea in Europe, you know, so uh it was the whole hostile thing was the backpacking in the hostel and the yeah, sit sitting in the back of the train with the chickens and stuff. Well in Africa, yeah, but the hostels in Europe. I mean, I basically my entire twenties were spent in hostels and it was like some of the best times in my life.

And I wouldn't replace those for anything, you know. I didn't like the guy from like Norway who was snoring one of the sixteen people in in the room with me, or he got up before in the morning and was like hooking up with some girl or something like that, keeping you awake, and you're like, god, dude, you know, but you didn't want to pay the extra dollar fifty and night to get the four person room, you know, because you figured you could have a couple of extra

beers with that money at that time. Would you ever do that again? Though? I mean, look, look, you're you're painting a romantic picture in the moment. Some of that stuff really sucks. I've been in those rooms where people are staring too when you can't get to sleep it. I mean, now that you can stay anywhere, do you do you find it more romantic or do you ever go back and just I'm gonna find a little one star hotel that nobody's ever heard of and just kind

of rock up there and grab a room. Well, I mean, really, it depends where you go. I mean, because I still go to places where there's not like nice hotels, so

you just kind of take what you can get. But um, you know, it's like that old it's saying, right, travels glamorous only in hindsight, and nothing really epitomizes that more than staying in hostiles because everything about it goes against everything you want and you know you should be able to achieve, but you love it anyway, and you keep doing it because of the party atmosphere and you get to meet so many people and it's cheap, right, But as you get older, you start to evolve like what

you like and air conditioning is nice and having your own bathroom is nice, and buffet breakfasts are nice and you know things like that. Um, so again, it just it just depends. But when I go back and do it, yeah, and the heartbeat. I would and I have some friends that still do it at four years old. UM, I haven't stayed I'll be honest, I haven't stayed in the hospital. Last moment into maybe in two thousand eleven. But since then, I've done a lot of camping. Uh, you know, not

necessarily by choice. Um, but uh, you know I could do it if I had to. And I also have great memories, so I also don't feel the need to. Well put, we share a passion for Africa. Um. The first night I was in Africa, was was in a tent, you know, on the ground in in Tanzania, and you could hear the lions ring in the distance, and you can hear the hyenas munching on the bones at the

edge of the camp. And then you know, graduated to the sinks and the Lawda lozzies and the finest accommodations I've ever stayed in in the world are those African game lodges. But I think, you know, starting out that way and sort of feeling that kind of connection by

literally sleeping on the ground was cool. Let me ask you about Africa because I think that's that's sort of a singular experience if wildlife speaks to you in that way, and both my wife and I have had sort of life changing, perspective changing experience as the first time you find yourself in the bush and lay your eyes on a specific animal or whatever gives you that powerful feeling.

What was it for you that made you sort of fall in love with with the safari aspect of Africa, let's say that, Yeah, Africa is like it's hard to explain because like I've spent over two years of my life in Africa, you know, and all the trips I've done, and it just like gets inside you. Like Africa. I've been on seventy seven safaris, literally seventy seventh safaris at

this point. In every single time, I just want more because even though it might be the same animals, it's always different at the seventies seven game drives or seventy seven trips, seventy seven game drives, game drives, but in every major park in Africa, and a lot of private

ones too. Taking seventy seven different trips to Africa, I would wait, I might, I might be around there though in total I don't even know, but uh, yeah, you know it's you mentioned the first time, the first safari ever went on was in Kruger National Park and it was me and my friend Mike, and we did the camping thing because it was cheap. And this is like two thousand and three, I think it was or something,

and we just got our own tent. It was this little piece of ship tent, right and uh mine got covered in like red ants or something like that, and I was like, oh crap, man, I'm not sleeping in that ship. And so I go over to my friend's tent and I got dude, move over, I'm sleeping with you. And he's like, what are you talking about. I'm like, look at my tent. He's like, oh god, it must be bad if you want to sleep in this little tent with me. So that was my first safari experience.

And as much as that sucked, as soon as I saw like my first rhinoceros, I was just like, oh my god, this is Africa, you know, and it just blew me away. And you know, as I've evolved over the year, and I have continued to go back to Africa many times, uh you know, and I've stated it, like you said, some of the best sparty lodges in the world and and there is no better accommodation on Earth than some of these tops sfart lodges. And people

are surprised when you say that. That's because they haven't seen it. And you know, just being in the bush and some of these tented camps and just amazing, like campus are just so so cool. And you have your own like little plunge pool and all of a sudden you're just there and then a hippo rolls by you at like nine o'clock at night as you're just having a cocktail. You know, you're like, holy cow, this is so cool. You get the question it's difficult to answer

if somebody is not well traveled. They want that first experience, and they ask you where should I go? Where should I begin my my European exploration? Exploration for example, And get that question a lot. Where would you tell them to go? What would what? What is the what is the answer if they had to just pick one or two countries? Honestly, I think the way I did it was probably the best way possible, at least for me, like going to London, because it eliminates a lot of

your fears. They speak English. Uh, it's definitely Europe, but it has a lot of the similarities of home. You feel comfortable. I always say it's the perfect place to get your big toe wet in Europe and uh and really just in traveling and then from there after a week or so, and it's easy. From London, you can get anywhere, you know, you can take the train, you can take a boat, you can fly literally anywhere in

Europe and it's just easy. And they make it easy London, so tourists friendly and and the rest of the UK. It's just wonderful, right, Or go over to Ireland, you know, it's very similar but different as well. But then going into France and just kind of experiencing something like that, or going down to Spain, going to Barcelona and just seeing the attitude down there and how how happy people are and how festive things are, and like how late people eat dinner. You know, it's just like you're like,

you eat dinner at mit night. What you know. It's it's you come home at seven in the morning from the bar and you're like, wait a minute, hold on, I'm gonna sleep all day now. But that's what the Spanish people do, you know. It's it's it's crazy, all right, other end of the spectrum, what countries and when someone brings up I want to go here, what do you think. You don't want to puncture their enthusiasm. You want them to have their own experience. But are there places where

you go think of, think again, or reconsider. Yeah, you know, I never I always try to be positive with that type of stuff because like, maybe I just didn't have the best experience, Because no matter where you go, someone's gonna be like, oh my god, it was my favorite place in the world. You're like, yeah, I thought it was okay, you know what I mean. But maybe they had a life changing experience that you didn't have, Like maybe you had bad weather. That's that's something that will

ruin your trip, or you lost your luggage, you know whatever. Um. But in in terms of your question, I would say, uh, I don't really know. I think China is underwhelming, uh, you know, except for certain areas of it and the the English factor can be really hard there. But really that's you know, in terms of big tourist attractions, that's really the only one I think that people come away underwhelmed. And for me, I've been to Chinese so many times

now I actually love it. And whenever I go, I just pick random cities because they have like a hundred and twenty cities with over a million people. So, you know, I just picked random cities and go. Now, hey, you getting away from people. I think it's always been important

to me. I know, you've been Antarctica. For someone that that hasn't been there, that really can't imagine going there, what was the feelings you step off, you take a boat, you step off onto the continent of Antarctica and you you experience it, and what what were you seeing, feeling, smelling. First of all, I want to tell you that there's no better place in the world that you can visit

than Antarctica. It's the coolest place in the world. And I'm just me and temperature wise, it is just amazinging to be there. And uh, I actually flew both times I was there because both times I went on different expeditions trying to reach the South Pole and doing climbing and visiting the Emperor Penguin colonies, and uh, you know, I think I spent about six weeks there total between the two trips something like that. And uh, the first year I was actually there with Prince Harry by the way,

and uh, that was that. I could do a whole podcast on that trip. But um, we actually did not make it to the South Pole that particular trip, um, and had a little bit to do with him. But

I'll get into that another time. But but being there on Antarctica, uh, you know, with the people that you're there with, because if you're on Antarctica and you flew there, you're an interesting person just by definition, and to talk to these people and some of these polar explorers are just some of the coolest people in the world, you know,

and just the most interesting and and laid back. And again, like if you're there, just by definition, you're into cool things and you've probably done a lot of other cool things and been successful in your life because it's not cheap, and uh, it's not somewhere that everybody just wants to go. Obviously you could do it a lot cheaper and go by boat from Argentina or Chiley or New Zealand or Australia, but um, you don't get the full scope of being

on Antarctica. Then you do like kind of camping out there and really experiencing it. And for me, the greatest moment of my life. And I really mean this was reaching the South Pole and uh, you know, getting further than Shackleton. Shackleton died trying to get there. Robert Falcon Scott died trying to reach the South Pole, and uh, you know, obviously it was a hundred years later, and you know, technology and plans and stuff are a little

bit different. But to be at a latitude line and to think where you are on the world, you know, it's just like, holy shit, every single thing for me is up, you know, And this I felt the same way when I went to the North Pole, and I'm like, this is so cool, and everything on Earth is below me right now, and I'm you know, still one of a handful of people. I think it's like four or five people in history. You've been to every country in

both poles, So that's pretty cool. When I tell you we made it by the skin of our teeth, that the last possible second, it was just it was just so much emotion that went into it. And again, I mean, it's just like six weeks in my life I spent trying to do this, and uh, and to finally do it was just so cool and to stand at the geographic South Pole where so many people had tried and failed and and died, and it's just almost like a mythological place. It's like, you know, an ancient seven wonder

of the world. So a few people have ever been there, and um, you know, there's a funny have a funny story. Actually, when I was at the South Pole, so they have South Pole Station, which is the US base essentially, and it's it's enclosed. So I wanted to get a passport stamp for me and my group of friends who I was down there with, and they wouldn't let us in. So when the Canadian um airline pipe, he went there and he knocked on the door and the Americans were like, yeah, no,

we're not gonna stamp the passport today. So he comes back and said, sorry, guys, they're not gonna do I go give me the fucking passports. So I take the nine passports, I go out there, bang on the door, and then I'm just like, listen, I'm not gonna go away here. I'm at the South Pole. You're gonna stamp the passport. And they're like, all right, come on, and you just do it yourself. It's over there. On the left. I'm like, yeah, okay, how hard was that? Canadians come on,

be assertive. It was important to get that official site. There's actually a passport stamp that says south Pole though. Huh yeah, yeah, there's uh, there's yeah. I have to actually my passport and it's uh one of my most cherished Uh, it is my most cherished passport stamp without question that and pick here in island. I have to say, I know how you bounce around. I think for you even more than me, stillness is a challenge being still

and and staying in one place. There are various reasons, various motivations for those kind of feelings for for a lot of us. Um, I lost my dad when I was young. I saw how precious time was. I saw how putting things off and and counting on years to do something was a bad idea. I know. For you working for cannifridz Gerald, uh, the trauma September eleven was extremely real and visceral and powerful and continues to be. How did that sort of change your perspectively on wanting

to go everywhere and do everything he possibly could? Well, that was one of the seminal moments in my life for obvious reasons, but at the same time, it also you know, I saw the people who didn't make it, and like one of my best friends was like, I always say, he'll be twenty three forever, and uh, you know, seeing that anything could happen on any given Tuesday, Uh, it just motivated me to get out and do the things that I wanted to do and live my life

the way I wanted to do it. Not that I didn't already have that, but that really just cemented it in my mind. And uh, I lost both my parents at a young age as well, and um, you know, so the combination of all those traumatic experiences really just made me want to live my life. And I have no regrets because you never know. And um, you know, in a short period of time, I'll be older than my mother was when she passed away, and that's a

weird thing to think about. And uh, you know, I want to make sure that I do everything I want to do in my life because you never know, and hopefully I live a long life, but again, you never know. So that's been a huge motivating factor in my life. And not wasting time with things you want to do. I always say don't put off to until tomorrow what you can do today. And uh, I really tried to live my life that way, especially with regards to experience,

because I think that is the essence of life. Lee is on Instagram and Twitter and has a website Lee Abbamonte dot com. He spells it A B B A M O N t E. On that site, he's got a travel blog all kinds of travel tips, and he writes this that what he has found in his travels is that people everywhere, at their core are basically good and decent and very much the same. And I think that's a powerful message. I have always found my travels

to be perspective changing, so enriching. Took my first international flight to Greece, mind blowing, still one of my favorite places Africa. My first minute in Africa stepping off a plane onto the tarmac in Arusha, Tanzania on a very black night and looking up at seeing millions of stars overhead and smelling a camp fire in the distance. And the next night I was camping on the ground in the Serengetti, listening to lions roar in the distance and aena's munching on the bones at the edge of the

campsite incredible. There's been so many other life altering experiences Nepal and a lot of places a lot closer to home, and I can't wait to get back out there. There's so many places I haven't been in, so many places that I want to return. We'll probably do another travel episode at some point. If you have any ideas or suggestions for topics, you can DM me on Instagram and appreciate it if you could leave some feedback by rating

and reviewing and subscribing. As always, thanks to my consecutive producer and partner and travel Jennifer Dempster and my producer Jason white Hell. I'll talk to you soon.