CHARLES BARKLEY: 19th HOLE

sub series of episodes called the Nineteenth Hole. I'm terrible at golf, but I do love the banter and the storytelling that goes along with around and especially after around, and Charles here is gonna talk about playing with Tiger and Michelson and Jordan's and many others. But this being Charles, our conversation would also veer off in all sorts of fun directions of course, basketball and football, fishing, hunting, TV, sports,

social media, and a lot more. And of course, this being Charles, he is funny, thoughtful, blunt and so generous. You'll enjoy this, ladies, gentlemen, Sir Charles Barkley, Well, Charles, you talk a lot about golf, and I've heard people make fun of you. Want you to know I will never make fun of your golf game, because I really suck, legitimately suck. But we'll get to that in a minute. But how will you describe your relationship with the game

of golf. It is probably the most important aspect of my life, because you know, Chris, it's only a few things you can do that get away and relax. I mean, because you know, like when you go to the supermarket, people want to talk to you. When you go to the draft cleaner, people want to talk to you. When you go to the golf course, you're out there in the middle of big old trees. You're playing with three guys who y'all just ras at each other, And it's one of the few things that you're life you can

do just get away from being in the limelight. And I never never get tired of playing golf. Like I got tired of playing basketball, but I never get tired of playing golf. You use you're an example of somebody who it's inspiring because you're not the most natural golfer, you're not the most gifted golfer. You've had your moments of frustration, but you show up man, and everybody says you just are relentlessly optimistic. You always show up in a good mood and have a good time even if

the score is not going your way. And that's very hard to do. It's pretty rare because I got no reason to be upset. I'm on a fIF to seven year old you know, you think about this. I am listen, you know, and I'm not one of those sentimental type people who like, I really mean this to settle man. I'm the lucky this dude in the world. You know. I'm from a small town in Alabama. I grew up with a single mom with three brothers, and grew up

in the projects. And I was blessed to go to a great college Auburn, then sixteen years in the NBA and now twenty years on television. I might go my whole life and never work. I mean, you know, listen, you know you've been in the business probably longer than me. There's nothing like sports. I mean, we get paid to watch the greatest athletes in the world perform, and I get to watch. Going back, I got to watch the

great Kobe Bryant. You know, I get to watch the great Lebron James, and I get paid to do it. I'd watch anyway. So when I get downtime. I'm just flapping a ball around. And first of all, I ain't gonna get on on your podcast A lot to you.

There are some lot of bases flowing. You know, there are some cigars going, and I I am cool with that, Like I don't worry, like what, I love to play better a d But like, you know, I got this joke that always used as really really funny because I said, I said, you know, people always make fun of my golf game. Yeah, but you know what they're making it from at work? You know, Hey, all these people they're making fun of my golf game, but you know what

they're making They're making it from work. They're the death somewhere, right, I said, they're at the death and they're working for somebody. They're gonna be there eight lousy hours. I'm up be on the golf course for four hours with some of my friends. And I've been blessed. One thing about being in a line, Like I played with the greatest players ever. You know, I played with Tiger a lot. I played with Phil Milson a lot. You know, I just on my bucket list. About a month ago I got a

chance to play with Gary Player. It was one of the greatest days of my life. He's somebody I've always admired and respected, and he had heard that I wanted to meet him, and we just happened to be in the same city together and the golf process. He said, yeah, I heard you want to meet Mr. Player. I said, I've always wanted to meet him. He says, well, he wants to play golf with you. I said, when I gotta be there, I said, He said tomorrow, as I'll

be there. I don't care what I got planning. And you know, Chris, when you meet somebody and they're just as awesome as you thought they were gonna be. Uh, it was so cool for me. Uh. So, like I said, I'm always on a good move, man, I ain't got no reason to be upset because I have outlived all my expectations. Uh, growing up in a small town in Alabama, growing up to beat Charles Barkley and never have a

real job. I'm always in a good move. Your gratitude is so authentic, and that's what makes it so beautiful. But plenty of people have an outlook on life that's healthy like that, but suddenly they shank a ball and it all goes out the window. The golf course is the place for some people forget how good they have it. Play you played. There are plenty of successful people. They got no reason to be upset about what direction of white ball goes. But there's just something about the experience

that makes people crazy. I don't have a strong temper in real life, but I've thrown a golf club. I felt like throwing all the golf clubs in the water. So how do you keep from, you know, losing your ship out there when you know it's so many people around you were doing it well? You know Pain Stewart, the late great Pain Stewart saying something to me one time at the Olympic. We're playing in Barcelona, Spain, back in and I was getting mad. He says, hey, you're

not good enough to get mad. And I'm like what he says, you're not good enough to get mad? He says, I can get mad. I do this for a living. You're just out here having fun. And I start thinking about that, like unless it's your real job. And see the one thing I love about Like, I'm not going out in abody, I'm not going out with a random strangers, like I'm playing with other jobs who are most of the time, I'm like when I played with the pro

is a little bit different. But most of the time I'm playing with old hassband jocks and all we talk about is too good old days. And we always ever said the older I get, the better I was, so like I said, I always like, I'm playing with old retired jocks and we all wanted life to to to jump on Charlie heat. We won. We're winning. I mean, so uh, you know, it's been like I don't go crazy what I like to play better, of course, but like you know, living in Arizona is a little bit

different because you have to drive a card. It's it's it's hard to go. But when I live in Philadelphia during the summer, that to me is the epitome of what golf is. You're out there those big old trees and you're like, man, this is pretty damn good. I'm and I love to walk when I played. If you're out there and you're like, wow, this is pretty awesome that like all these people are working and they got stressful lives and you're out here smoking cigars and drinking

a little bit, and you're like it's pretty cool. No. For me, being in nature is that's my church, and so I try to remember that. Back when I played, I'm I'm some I retired, and nobody's asked me to come out of retirement because that's how bad I am. But when I was playing a little bit, I was fully aware of the nature, the trees. I would take it all in. I would try to focus on that. If the score wouldn't go on my way, I could at least tell myself, you're outside, it's a beautiful place

around you. Focus on that, and that would that would sometimes get me through. I had no right to be mad about anything, cause I have no skills in golf, and I was able to kind of overcome my temper by reminding myself, you're surrounded by beauty, just chilling. A lot of people would like to be right here. Yeah, but also you know I'm around because, like I said, people said, what's the most the one thing you missed

the most about playing? I said, well, the first thing he gets a check, let's do let's get that out the way. The check is always good. But just being around the guys, cracking jokes, giving each other ship, that's the best thing about sports. The money is great. The famous great. Well when you on a plane, our train or a bus, whether like when we we we busted d C, we busted New Jersey, we took the train

to play the Knicks. Are you you get on one of those five hour flights when you're going from Philly to l A and y'all are giving each other so much crap. That's all you miss and the only way to do that now, I mean, because they like we can go out. Listen, you tell the guys you talk to n a job. You don't play basketball once you retire. You don't play football once you retire. You don't play

baseball once you retire. So unless you get together with the guys and play golf, or you happen to be in the same city, which doesn't happen that often because very few people live in the city they played in. That a lot of them go back home where they grew up to be around family in France when they retire. So when you but the only time you get to give each other a lot of ship and have a blast is when you're on the golf course. That's a part of it. I mean, you know, you can give

the ship for the best seven. I know you can take it. You don't have a glass jaw, or you to tired a long time ago. Right, So when these guys are going at you, did anybody ever get in your head and actually just do what they were trying to do, which is totally take you out of it and your game falls apart? Or or you always been resilient when the when the ship starts flying. No, you gotta be resilient. Listen. It has nothing to do with golf.

To be honest with you. If you play on the team every day is warfare the locker room every day. I mean you think about it. You see, I tell you if you see these guys, when you see your family, I mean you see these guys. I tell people in the NBA, you know, you practice every day or you're on a plane, train or bus, and all you do is give each other hard time. When you see people at their best and at their worst, right, you're you're

you're running the whole spectrum with these guys. You're living the highs and the lows, and you know all their weaknesses and you know what what what their great points are? Yeah, and you know you know what gets their go. Uh, and listen and a lot of times, you know when you have when somebody has had a bad game, it's up to you guys to pump them up. That's actually what all the laughing and the joking like. First of all, if you win, it's an easy train or playing or

you know whatever. But when you play like Ship or a player played like Ship, that's what your brothers are far. I mean that, like, that's what like if a guy is sitting back and low, no, no, you can't sit back to a by yourself. We lost as a team, No, you're not gonna sit back and you had a bad game. No no, So so that to me, it's the essence of sports. Yeah, everybody loves you and pat you on the back when things are going good, I don't need

friends and teammates then. But when I have a shitty game, that's what I mean because I already feel bad because you let the guys down. But that's when I really need those guys like yo. And that's the number one thing I learned from Dr Jay. He's like Charles, when you're the star on the team, you got to keep everybody up. He says. Your job. Your job ain't just

to go out there and play great. He said, that's your first responsibility to pay great, But your second responsibility is to make sure number one of those other guys feel important because unfortunately, you get all the credit and you get all the blames. So when you're getting all the credit, you really have to make those guys let them know you appreciate them. Because listen, there's always a little bit of jealousy. Uh. They like, Charles get all

the credit. Dr Jay get all the credit. Charles gets all the money. Dr Jay gets all the money. It's like a guy who plays with Lebron when he played in Cleveland, they're like, man, everybody talks about Lebron all the time. So it's a double ledged sword. You have to really go out of your way to make sure those guys feel a part of you. Well, I know, when you're on the golf course, you do that because

you're considered the most fun guy to play with. But are you saying all this team sport crap that you took makes you totally immune in your current sport, Like there's nothing anybody can say when you're lining up a tea shot or it's a big money put, or it's coming down to it. There's nothing that anybody can say that's gonna take you out of your enjoyment or rock your world or affect your game at this point. No,

but some of the greatest lines I've ever heard. Or on the golf course, you know, one of the guys, this over guy hits the shot, he hits the skinny. He said, Oh, that's like chuck skinny. Then everybody in the group lab or you're playing with a guy he is a really, really fat and you said something, oh,

just like your wife, he's fat. I mean, I mean the way we ride each other and if you get the ball, if you dribble it off the t I mean, it's so much stuff like after the first of all, I can't like most of the stuff we can't even say. I mean, people are so politically correct nowadays. I mean, that's really unfortunate, you know, in a way because I'm a firm believer in which it don't matter what I believe, it's just the way it works now. I think intent matters.

I do. I think intent matters, But unfortunately in our business today, intent don't matter. Like there's stuff that I would listen, there's no doubt in my mind if we put a microphone in the locker room, everybody will be suspended. The fire all the time. But unfortunately, uh, time to change and stuff that you say in the locker room that used to be funny or used to be a joke, Like, man, you're gonna get fired or suspended if you said today. And like I said, I'm that's sure. That's always a

good thing because you should listen. Uh, you should be able to have fun. But nowadays, man, you have to be really careful what you say because time to change, and I don't think it's for the better. Well, the context is hard to explain, that to the fact that people don't wan here about the context. But what you're saying is in the golf course, it's an oasis from all that what happens out there. It's kind of like

a safe haven. You can be non politically correct, you can break anybody's balls in any kind of way, and it's it's understood that in that environment that's okay, and that's why you get and that's why you have to be careful who you play with. Ye yeah, you have to be really careful. If you ever at the end of a rounders you ever say wait, some stuff just happened out there over the last four hours. I don't know if I want that stuff shared, I better go

tell him. Listen, all this was off the record. You understand, no nost of I'm not playing with no reporters. I'm only planned with my friends. I don't mean reporters, but I mean off the I mean off the record in terms they don't they don't want to share that story. And you've heard that saying before, because I've had friends of mine got screwed. They're like, well, I told the guy that was off the record. I'm like, na, man,

it doesn't work like that. And unfortunately, in this society we live in today, so many people or reporters are trying to get clickbaited. There's nothing that's off record now. I mean, times have changed so much. And listen, you know, I don't believe in doing social media. I think it's one of the worst things that ever happened to the world, because I think it gives everybody the right, you know, because the one thing that bothers me. Sports are the only job in the whole world. Do we let every

jackass in the world have an opinion? I mean, sports, think about it sports. You can call it to a radio show right now anywhere in the country and you can listen, no no disrespect. You can be a nurse, a plumber, electrician, a lawyer, or anybody and you get to say Lamar Jackson sucks. You get to say Nick Foles sucks or chalks Barkla, Chris Foler sucks. There's no other job in the world that we give you that platform divorce your opinion only in sports. That's how crazy

this whole thing is. There's no other You can't call to the doctor's office and say, hey, I wanted to talk to the doctor he sucked, and put it on the internet or calling to a radio show. That's the most interesting aspect of sports to me. But you don't seem to bother by people saying that up about you

because you have put yourself out there. You put yourself out there period talking about heavy issues, talking about basketball, but even putting yourself on the golf course where you know that you don't have a classics swinging in a classic game and people are gonna make fun of you, and you you just you could care less like what anybody says or thinks about you, which I think is what's what draws a lot of people to you. Well, you know, because you never give them foods that power. Okay,

you don't like me, that's fine. I'm not gonna give you a platform where I do social media and gonna read about it. Anybody who thinks everybody liked them, it's just an idiot. And it's so funny. You know. I've known guys like yourself, I know, I mean, can we all travel in the same circles? And I got friends in the business going back to Burn and Gary. Uh, you know, guys like that. I've had dinner with them and Joe Buck and guys like that. And you're telling

me like people actually think we care who wins. Like when I'm in Alabama, they're like, I hate Gary and Vern I'm like, why do you Gary? N there? I said, there two of the nicest guys in the world. First of all, if you don't like Burn, you've got something wrong on with you. Uh. I feel like, well, they hate Alabama and Auburn. I said, really, really, are you serious? That's just you guys are just idiots. That's just I know Verne pretty well. I don't know Gary that well.

But they're two great guys. But let me tell you something. They don't care who wins. Nobody cares who wins, but fans think that because they hear what they want to hear. It's like Ernie was doing baseball one year and I went to the playoffs and people in in um in Philly, uh booing Ernie. I'm like, what they're doing, Arnie. They're like, they think you don't like the Phillis. That's just first of all, if you brewing Ernie Johnson, you're just an asshole.

That's Ernie Johnson is the nicest person in the world. But this notion that Ernie cares who wins, so you have to learn this. You go like, man, I don't care who wins the game. You know what I want. I want the season to be able so I can get to my vacation. That's what I want more than anything. I want to cease to be over. Erniest. Go ask me who's gonna win. I have to pick somebody, but

I don't care who wins. But it always makes me laugh, like people care that now they think like, well, that guy doesn't like my team, that guy doesn't like my school. I'm like, God, please stop, please stop. Nobody like cares who wins these events. So I kind of figured that, like, okay, if you don't like my nuts, and that's fine, I kinda get into what I'm trying to defend myself. I've had this confedsation with Joe Buck, who's fantastic. I'm like,

you know, He's like, what do you do? Do you do? You? You're one of the best to ever do it. This notion that you care who wins, it's just Athanine. You're just doing your job for fans. They like, oh I hear this. No, no, he didn't say that, but that's what you want to hear. You know, we we talked about this because you share all of the college football The passion of the fans is one of the engines that makes this thing work. So I understand they view

it through a lens. I understand they're gonna hear what they want to hear, and that their opinion is gonna be colored by that. And they think everybody's biased. You do a game, you got fans from both sides, and you were obviously biased against US. I could hear it other team fans say the same thing. You know you're doing a good job when you're when you're doing that. But I, yeah, that's that's not something you can worry about.

And I yeah because I've actually I go to the Iron Bowl every year, my favorite sport, an event other than the Olympics. And I can see be sitting with Alabama and arburn fans and they both said those announcements hate both of us. I'm like, you guys are just idiots. But it goes back like you've been in the business forever. I've been in it for twenty years, and like guys, we all knew each other. We don't care who wins. We're throwing the stats out there. Your defense sucks, We

got that. We can't get on TV and say your defense is good. Well, and we say your defense sucked and they sucked. That don't mean we dislike your team, but you're right. They hear what they want to hear. And it's funny though, Uh it's funny. I always tell people fans want to hear two things. My favorite player is great and my team is great. If you don't say those two things, you're screwed with that fan base.

I tell people my favorite player, you better tell me he's great, and you better tell me my team is good. That's like what I'm in New York? Where are you at right now? It's always fun to go there because the Knicks fans are amazing. Every year you go there, they're like, you hate the Knicks. You hate the Knicks, Like, what are you talking about? You said they sucked every year. I said that stuff, They suck every year. And I said, wait a minute, why am I a Knicks hater? If

y'all suck every year? And I see y'all suck every year, why does that make me a hater? But every time I go there, they run up at me on the street and said, it's act same thing. You hate the Nix. You've got credibility of those. Yeah, but it makes you laugh. But you were a great player, so you can comment on that. I mean, when you watch golf, you don't look there. Do you feel the license to criticize a

player who played badly or choked or whatever. You don't really publicly talk about that because you weren't at that level, right, I mean, you would never do that. I would never do that. But but for the simple fact that that's one thing, one thing that I hate about guys on television. It drives me crazy on television. One of these guys listen to some of my friends too, uh, and it drives me crazy when they get on TV. Number One, they never played sports, but they'll say that quarterback sucks,

that picture sucks. Uh, he's not a good wine receiver. Oh, he's not a good hockey player. I'm like, are you kidding me? Really that you would? And I said, and I said, so, I don't want to stick to I always stick to basketball. I never talk about other sports. Like I'll ask a guy in the NFL about somebody privately, or as guy, a boy, a baseball player privately. But I'm never gonna get on TV and say, oh, that guy is not a good quarterback. Oh you know, you know,

he's not a good picture. I just don't like that. Because number one, anybody will make it to the pros is a good player. Are they all Kevin Durant and Lebron and Janice? No? But the number ten, eleven, and twelve player on the NBA team is a pretty good player. You know you mentioned Fortunately my success that would have nothing to do with any athletic ability or planning sports because I was I was very mediocre athlete. And everything, but I'm really inept at golf and you you are

responsible partly. I'll take most of the blame. You are partly responsible for the most embarrassing athletic event in the history. Do you do You know where I'm going with this. I'm time gonna tell the story. But you played a large part in my low point as an athlete among all the low points. You know what I'm talking about. No, Jimmy V. Celebrity Golf Classic. For the folks who don't

know you have these. You have these charity events, okay, and guys like Charles Jordan was there, She Schefski was there. And then you find out who you're gonna play with, and so they get a chance to play with Charles, these guys who donated a lot of money to the cause of fighting cancer. It's a tremendous event in Jimmy V's name. They're excited. I get to play with Charles,

Coach k Michael. They get to play with me. Not as excited, not as excited, but they try to put on a brave face so we're gonna have a good time. So I know they're not that that pumped to play with me, and I'm not very good, so I just gotta be a nice guy. So we're out there playing the Jimmy V Classic. I got me a very modest sized gallery. First of all, I'm not good, so I get nervous. I just try not to hit somebody with

the ball. That for me is like what makes me nervous is that these celebrity just don't hit somebody with the ball. And so I'm out there worried about all that stuff, and I see your group, massive gallery following you, and your green is near our tea box. You're laughing because you know what's coming. So all of a sudden, you you put out and you get the idea, I guess, to bring your entire group over to my tea box. What made you want to do that? Well, you know,

I'm just trying to have fun. Man. Yeah, let me tell you something number one, especially something like that, when you raise all that money, that's all that matters. Like, first of all, let me give you a pull up piece of advice. What's she hit? Like the first ten people, it just becomes, oh, you've not hit ten people. You've hit ten people on the golf course. I knocked the hell out of many people. It's just like, hey, it's just like resting your teeth. Just just do it every day.

Like the first few times. Well, listen, I will agree with you. The first time you hit somebody's nerve racking, the second, the third time, they should know better to get the hands not to wait. Well, they didn't know better for me. So I'm over here and I'm you know, I haven't hit a horrendous tea shot, but there's nothing to write home by all of a sudden, here comes Charles, Here comes hundreds of people. Hundreds of people crowd around

the tea box. You started giving me ship. I don't remember what you said, but you did a good job of getting in my head, which wasn't very difficult because I had no confidence. And so I'm over the ball and I'm thinking, like, all right, don't miss. First of all, don't swing and miss. But I did, like the next worst thing. I closed the club place. I scald it. It went like a foot off the ground over here to the left. You fell down on the ground. Your

gallery falls down on the ground. Everybody has My group's mortified. My girl, oh my god, our guy here just choked. Once in a lifetime, choke you guys have good fun, and I know walking away, it's gonna be a long round with my guys for the rest of the cause they're gonna be afraid to say something. They're gonna try to and I gotta play it off. I gotta laugh.

You're dying inside, but I gotta laugh. And I know that everybody that you brought over there their takeaway from the Gimmy Pho goals Fowler choked the worst, the worst golf shout I've ever seen. I think out and spread the word about that. So thanks, thanks for bringing your gallery over and making me choke. We've all too, But hey, I think you were coming pretty good. You've had a good run, but not a golf man, i'd say, I I I just I'm gonna get back into it because

living in Miami you have too many opportunities. But I just, you know, I don't know how five hours out there, so just it's a long time to not have fun. So I I need we gotta play together. You gotta get get back put the fun back in it. Because everybody plays golf with you comes away saying he's the most fun. Nobody ever has a bad round playing with you, So what you. First of all, the first thing you

need to do it just take some lessons. That's probably the biggest mistake I made from the beginning is not taking the lessons. And first of all, you got the right you're the right height for golf. I got one thing I got. I got the right height. Hey, so listen one thing that pisces me off about golf. They're all between five seven and five nine five ten, like the d J field Ernie. You can name the guys that over six ft tall. That's like when I used to play with Tiger, people be like, yo, man, how

tall is Tiger? Like six six two that's just like five ten. They're like, why he looks so much tall on those other guys. I thought the rest of them like five seven, five eight, and he looks taller because he's slender. But I just only like five team. But I could say I've only played with three or four guys in thirty years that's over six ft tall. I mean the first time. I mean, but not non basketball players.

Do you play with plenty of teammates? Yeah, you play I know you used to play with like uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I know that. Yeah. So I'm playing for the Suns and one of our dances name is Amy, and she was awesome. She was sweet, and we see each other. She's like so when she gets to know me a little bit, she's like, hey, i'd like you to play golf with my boyfriend one day. And I'm like okay, yeah, okay whatever. And I'm like hey, okay. This goes on for a few months and she's like, are you ever

gonna play golf with my boyfriend. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I played with him sometime. And finally, after about three or four months, she said, chose, are you ever gonna play golf with my boyfriend? I said, you know what, yeah, Amy, because you're the sweetest girl. You're awesome. She's one of our dancers. As you sweet, she says. And I said, what's his name? He said Phil Michlson. I said what I said why? I said, wait, your boyfriend is Phil Mickelson.

She says yeah. I said, Amy, you should have started that conversation like three of months ago telling me his last name. I said, it would be an honor and privilege to play with Field Michelson. You just told me his first name. I thought, even just something random or dude just filed from Phoenix. Yeah. Yeah, Like that's exactly right, like like one of those callings show, Hey it's failed from Phoenix. Hey. So after about four months she says, yeah,

you gotta play with my boyfriend Phil Mickelson. I'm like what I said, Amy, I know who film mism in. I'm a golf junkie, as you've been to. I thought it was something random dude named Phil. If you have to til the field to play golf? When I first got traded here, he's awesome. Did you do you elevate your game when you play with those guys? Did you play better or worse? What do you play? Do you play better or worse when you play with a golf legend?

Like it's it's very nerve racking. Yeah, and well this Phil Tiger. I played last week with Bob Tway and Willie Wood, guys who are terrific players on the senior Tour, and I was nervous. Um. You know. I talked to Grant Hell he lives down there with Adam Scott and Justin Rose, and he was saying we were talking about it. He's like, yeah, man, I could barely take the club back. I do I'm playing with a hundred crows, and every time I played with one, I'm just as nervous I

was playing with him the first time. It's the weirdest thing. So that goes back to your point earlier. You're talking about the Jimmy v Hey every listen, I say, I'm fifty seven years old now and I'm played with a hundred pros. But every time I played with a great player. But even when I played with Gary Player recently, I could barely take that thing back. I mean, I was so nervous, but it was awesome. But but the one but see, it just goes to show you though, when

you watch a pro play, it's something special. When you watch a real pro, it's beautiful to watch. Uh. And I enjoy it, even though I get nervous, I really enjoy it. Yeah, I played with Ricky Fowler. We we joke and he's not a distant cousin. But I know what you're saying. Is it only golf pros that makes you nervous? Can you play with a lot of famous people? I don't. I don't know if you play with presidents, but certainly actors and all kinds of super successful people

that doesn't freak you out. It's just the guys who are at the top of the game of golf. No, I think I think the key to me is the gallery, like when there's people standing well, because I get a good gallery, especially like in Lake Tahoe. To me, that's one's nerve wracking when I got a gallery. And I was joking with you earlier about once you hit a few people would become normal. Nah, every time you're play in front of crowds and they're standing right there, Uh,

it is nerve racking. Uh. You just don't want to hit anybody because it's scary when you hit somebody, because I see I'd hate to hit somebody for real, I mean, like real serious. But it's still very nerve wracking. When there's a gallery, that's when I probably get the most nervous. Now, how come for so many people and ever, I'm not competitive in this way. I'm happy to play around without gambling, without money on the line, But it's such a huge

part of every round for a lot of people. Your teammates ex guys and the Suns used to talk about Dan Marley, thunder Dan and Joe Klanto about They called you eight TM because you were just it was just money withdraw all time when they played with Charles. I know that that's the kind of things they give you crap for. But is that a part of a Charles Berkeley around all the time, to give and to take and having a little something on the line and make

it interesting. Yeah, But but the kid is number one. Number one. I just like to gamble, number one. Let's get it out the way. I think. I just love I love to gamble, but I think it's just fun. The key, though, is you have to bet within your means, Like you have to know that you suck at golf and you can't be bedding like I still play a thousand dollars a whole because you're probably gonna lose a

lot of holes. But to play for a whole, maybe listen, even if you play a hundred dollars a whole, that's only eight hundred dollars if you if that happenstands you lost every hole. But I think it makes you compete better. I think it makes you concentrate better. Uh So I

like to put a little cash on the line. I think that just at first of all, I just think it makes it more fun and entertaining, because when you get money from a friend, there's no better feeling, none like you like even if you beat them by the score, that's not the same. It's when you get some money from a friend. There's nothing better than that. But they would always joke that even if the odds were against you, you know you're playing against better players, you know you're

likely to lose money if you're playing stroke play. You didn't want that handicap, you didn't want that advantage. You always backed yourself. You always believe in yourself, even though you were the huge under dog going into this golf match. Well, that goes back to what I was saying earlier. You first of all, I bet. I I bet on my golf. Like I'm Charles Barker the basketball player. I got some pretty confidence. That's one of the keys you have to learn.

As I've gotten older, I'm getting my shots now. At the time, I was Chard's Barker the basketball players. So I have supreme confidence in myself. Unfortunately, it doesn't translate. You can think you a hell of a basketball player, that does not translate into being the hell of a golfer. So listen, I'm taking my strokes. Now my egos gone, My egos way going out of every pound that I got, my ego is less and less. That's part of maturity. Man.

You mentioned basketball players. You know a lot of X hockey players baseball players because there's the connection with the golf club to the hockey stick of the baseball bat. Find it more of a natural thing. A lot of tennis players of sport I cover are pretty good golfers. Now, basketball doesn't seem to have the same translation of skills. As you point out, it's not an advantage to be taller, so there aren't as many excellent golfers who are former

basketball players? Who who are the guys who are who are who's on the All Star team for that? And maybe even like active players. I know Steph Curry is pretty good golfer. Who do you think the best active NBA players and the best pass ing b a great since terms of golf, Well, Steph Curve is probably the best NBA player today on the golf course. Uh, you got Ray Allen, He's really good. Bill Lambier was really great. I haven't seen Bill in a long time, but Bill

was really at six ten. Huh wow, that's impressive. Oh yeah, but he's one of those guys who grew up in the country club, so he's been playing prior to the longest. Michael is a good player, but he's streaky because he got a long, long swing. But he's really streaky because listen, he's six six. So, like I say, the longer your swing is, the more room for era there is. Um. Yeah, but I think Steph Curry Dell Curry is pretty good also. But you go to these tournaments and you know, you

see these baseball players. I mean, it's obvious how that would translate. You know, if you can see, if you can hit something come at you a hundred miles an hour, you ought to be able to hit something on a t that's still hockey the same thing. So you know, I feel like those guys have an edge. We get you go to Nevada and you're playing the pro ams and things like that. Yeah, I think the hockey players

are perfect example. There are a lot of really good hockey players because of the slap shots and things like that. But the thing I've noticed is the baseball pitchers. They're terrific. I mean, they only working one day, it seems like

they're playing golf those other four days. So I think if something, because you got to understand something, like you got all that free time basketball, we probably had the less amount of free time because even when you're not even when it's not basketball season, you're actually still playing basketball, like you're playing during the summer pick up game. You're not going to play golf. I mean, I've never touched

the golf club. I don't like seven years old. Yeah, I mean, and most of the guys they didn't play golf like growing up because like I said, during the summer, all you do is play basketball. You know, you take it takes a long time. And I always get a little suspicious if if I see somebody, like a regular job person who's good at golf. Either they're very talented or they're just spend a lot of time in the

golf course. I'm suspicious of that. How come? How come you can be that good but it takes four hours to play around a golf and you got a regular life, maybe you've got a family, and yet you're still that good. You must be. You must be seeking away and putting a whole lot of energy on the golf course. If my college basketball coach is a good golfer. I know my team sucks. I know my team sucks. And that's like, what about your lawyer? What about your what about your

Yeah you're what about the guy handling your money? Yeah, my facily. If my financial advis is good at golf, I want another one. He's spending too much time on the golf course. Yeah, listen, And I'm saying this as a joke, but I'm kind of being serious. I think you can only be really really good at one thing in life. Like if you're a great basketball player, you can be a good golfer, but you can't be a

great like you can't play on the tour. Uh. I don't want anybody who's great at something to be like, oh, it's second thing because it takes a long time. What about Bo Jackson? You you're you can be an athlete in two sports? You mean you don't think like Bo Jackson was a great football player and some would say a great baseball player. Um, I hear what you're saying. But he's not really a regular person, you know, like

Jim Brown. You know, listen, listen. One of the great joys of my life was going to college with both Jackson I tell people this. Watching that man play football and baseball in college was one of the greatest things in my life. Uh. To get to see that every weekend, up close and personal. We stayed in the same dorm. I consider him a great friend of mine. But to see you see, Boat was unique by the way. Uh he can. He doesn't like golf. Boat wants to hunt.

Boa wants to hunt. Uh. We played golf a few times. He would prefer to hunt. You can fit. You like to fish, you can fish with him. I suppose right, you're a big fisherman as well. I love the fish. I mean, you know you talk about golf. I mean golf and fish the only two things you can do when you get old. I mean, that's the only two things you can do. And I love doing both of them. But you know, Carmelon and Boat are people who hunt

more than anything in the world. I've never been hunting, and I never have the inclination to go hunting, to be honest with you, But those two guys, man, they just want to hunt every day. I don't have the patience or I probably even the talent. I'd be scared to walking around with a gun, bowls, a bow and arrow guy, which is even more impressed than a gun. But I just have never had the patience. I mean, first of all, who wants to get up early in

the morning to go live in the woods. That's just stupid. I'm not gonna do that. I got friends who hunt. They like leave like three or four in the morning. They can get to that. I don't forget what they call that little bunk house thing, and they just wait for deer to walk back. Who wants to do something stupid and the hide there? Yeah, Well, fishing takes patience. Golf takes patience. I mean, these are things that are

not exactly unfolding at rocket speed. Man. I mean you have to have patients, I think to be successful in both of those things. Well, I think the fishing is just to me though. They're just a way to get away, like I'm always with my friends, like I said, because I'm not gonna go out and meet three random strangers on the golf course and go play with him. Because number one, I told you probably half the stuff I'd

be saying would be inappropriate, uh number one. But I just I want to I want to have fun with my friends, and these guys have something in coming with me, like like if me and you played together, I say on one whole, like, who's the best player you ever seen Chris play in person? Uh? Then I say that like a few home later, what's the best sporting event

you have a cover? I mean that's the things like when I'm playing with self Jenner, who's a great friend of man as a man, who's the best running back you had to tackle? And then I'd say like a couple of like who's the best player? He like, the best player you play? But he said, you'll say like Reggie White was like like, so I love picking my friends brains, Like I got a great friend Roy Green. He was like, we'll we'll be watching football. He says, Man,

we'll be talking. He said, Man, that reminds me of Lawrence Taylor. I say, what what what? What does that mean? He says, well, Lawrence Taylor is the only reason before Lawrence Taylor came into the league, no running back ever chipped. He says. The woman can't block one one guy couldn't blond block Lawrence Taylor. He says, hey, running back hit him a little bit. Then they and then they started calling to chip the tight end used to always go out and catch balls like no, no, no, no, no,

no guy can block this. Dude. Hey, hey, have to have the tight end, stay in and block Lawrence Taylor. I mean stuff like that. Just like, are you serious? He said, yeah, Lawrence Taylor bait. Everybody changed that. So these are these are great golf These are golf course conversations. That right, You're having these great talks in between hitting the shot. That's awesome. That's right. And do I said, like, well, who who y'all like watching today? They're like, yo, man,

that dude Aaron Donald khalil Mack, like those bowls of brothers. Hey, I don't know what the boats of the family did, man, but the boss did it right. I gotta get them both of boys and credit. I don't know what mom and dad botha were doing or whatever they did. They got a little generational little soldiers. So you you you like you like the pass rushers. That's where your I go to the pass rushers to answer your question, since we might not play golf. Barry Sanders best player I

ever saw in person, and my favorite events. It's a tie between the Rose Bowl and Wimbledon finals. So those are those are those are the answers. But I love the fact that you have these rounds and golf and it becomes like a like a freewheeling kind of off

the record, non PC talk show. But you're just throwing opinions out there and hearing stories because I like, because I want to know who's great and other sports, I really do you know, uh, you know, like when I a few years ago it was on my bucket list to go to Wimblton. I went over. They ain't got a chance to see Roger Federer and Serena Plate. I'm like, okay, I'm good. Like I've been to Womanton one time in my life. I sue two of the greatest to ever

do it. I'm cool with that, But like I want to know, like one of my football friends Tim, who's great today, Because sometimes they say stuff to me like I said, what happened? Then they're like this food ran the wrong route. You know, somebody at home like why that quarterback keep throwing the interception? And they'll tell me like, no, man, that's not what happened. That was a hot read. The wide receiver screwed that up and he ran the wrong route.

Like I think that stuff is invaluable. I mean, like, and I love when guys get on TV they're like, oh, that's not on the quarterback. I know he threw the interception, but the guy ran the wrong route. Uh. When I was watching the game last night, he says, you know, the guy didn't run the right route that he that ball. Brian Greece said he shooped, threw that ball to somebody else. He says he made up his mind and fans he didn't read to read. And so I love learning about

every other sports. I don't want to be one of those dumb fans like, yo, man, why does quarterback keep throwing interceptions? No, it wasn't the quarterback's fault. You uh, were the original guest picker in College Game Day and you go to af you go to a Knoxville Tennessee represent Auburn. We had never had anybody come on the

show as a guest and pick games. You out there with the jersey on those are that was a really good UM Auburn team, And you predicted they would put a foot up Tennessee's asked that day, and they actually went out and pretty pretty much did that. Um they had Ry Brown, you know, so you know, I noticed some stuff. When I go to games, I look at the players bodies. So when I was down there looking at the players before the game, I'm like, man, but

twice as big as these little dudes, Tennessee guy. And I like what Coach Saban has had me speak to his team. I think like three times, and man, they might have the best week coach. He's going to Georgia now, but man, they like I tell people, man, big and strong, it's tough to beat. And when I was walking on that field beforehand, I'm like, I'm gonna kill these little dudes. These Tennessee players said, hey, that's a train coming, they better get off the track. I remember what I said,

and I'm saying, like, no, Tennessee. I know they're playing at home, but these little dudes ain't gonna be able to start running Brown and Cadillac and those guys, they're just gonna run over them. Then they just blessed them. They did. That was that was a memorable night. You You made the bold call. Vallos fans didn't like it, but there's nothing they can say. When an went, I hadn't did what you said they were gonna do. Hey, before we go here. So you talked about the great

conversations during a round of golf the company. It's a tough question, but was there around for you that sticks out above all the others where everything is just perfect? How you were playing, where you were, who were you with maybe one money at the end, all of it just kind of came together. You think this is the perfect round. It can't get any better than this. I think I shot seventy one time on of course in Kentucky and Wants celebrity tournament. That was probably the highlight

for me personally. But to answer your question, I think Tiger is the greatest golfer who ever lived. I think no disrespect to Jack Nicholas, who is an amazing person and great and the great golf in his own right. But I think because of the competition, the equipment. I think the competition has just gotten better over the years, as you can see, like the reason that why no we won every Royder Cup for a hundred years and now it's like a toss up because they just got

better players in other countries and better equipment. And when I played with Tiger, it was always an honor and a privilege. Um the same thing with Field, but to say that I played what, in my opinion, is the greatest golfer ever, it was pretty surreal. Uh. And I told I told people. I said, guys, I don't played with a lot of people, but I saw some stuff today because I ain't never seen before. I said, his ball makes a different sound when it comes off the

club face. And I said, and this before he I don't even think he had won a major at the time. That's how for this go back? And I'm like, this is this dude here? Uh, Like I said, and I don't played with Field quite a bit. Tom Lehman a bunch of pros in Phoenix, and I'm playing a bunch of pro am. But when I played with Tiger for the first few times, I was like, Damn, this kid here is ridiculous. So that was probably the coolest moment

for me. And then obviously after he'd want a bunch of majors to play with him, I was like, yeah, this is this is the Michael Jordan's Dwayne Gretzky Like, there have very few players who you're like, oh, they're the best of what they ever did. So I think Wayne Gretzky is like that. I think Michael was like that. No disrespect to Kobe or Lebron or Jack Nicholas, but I think Tiger is the best I've ever seen, and it was an honor the periods to play with him.

That's the beautiful thing about golf though, right Charles. You can't play hockey with Wayne Gretzky. You can't. You got a box with Ali, You can't be in a football field with with a Brady. You could. You could get in the tennis court with Federal, but it wouldn't be the same. But you can't play golf. You're doing your thing and he's doing his a game right alongside you, and you get a chance to have that a ringside seat for that. That's really kind of unique to golf.

That's a very cool thing. I know you realize how blessed you are to have all those experiences, but you probably sat around and talked with him after. Because the last thing I want to hit on is how people love to talk about golf almost as much you'd love to play it. And I had a chance one time at the Jimmy v. You were there, Michael was there, Quinn Buckner was there, Digger and I was just to fly on the wall taking this all in as you guys kind of went around and broke balls and told stories.

The cigars were going, you mentioned the beverages. It was all happening, and I was thinking golf made it happen. But it's just a platform for guys to get together and share those kind of moments. And I'm sure that after the rounds you've had some some of those memorable times and and bonding friendships, just where the round of golf sets it up and then boom you have that

guy's time. Well that goes back to what I was kind of, you know, talking about the our whole conversation, like when you get together with these guys and first of all you got is the old days. All you got is the old days, and we've been so lucky and blessed. I played against Michael Jordan's prime. Um, you know, I played against Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, all those guys in their prime. And now you know, when you get together with those guys, all you talk about is

the good old days. And golf is the catalyst. I mean, golf is one of the few sports well let me phrase it, golf is the only sport you can play when you get older. Golf is the only spot. Like some guys might go out and try to play tennis, but golf, man, you can ask to go out and have fun. Like I said, You're gonna have a few beers, you can smoke some cigars, you can talk trash, and then it's just like you away from stress. Uh, you know,

there's nothing going on. You're like, you just have a window where you can just have fun and then when it's over, hopefully you want some money and hit some good shots. Golf is the only thing you can do that with. I mean, we can't go out and play basketball. A football player can't go out and play football. A baseball player, you know, a great Roger Clemens can't go

out and pitch right now, you know. But you know what when we get together, like that's like when I'm in Lake Tahoe when Roger Clemens comes saying hello to me. Josh Allen this year, this year it was Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey. I played golf with those guys. I played golf with Mmy m Smith. Like, not only do you get a chance to talk to those guys, but you get a chance to play golf with him, and you can't beat that. I will defend my tennis players.

You can a tennis until you're old. You can have a lot of fun with it. You cannot drink beers and smokes cigars while playing tennis, so there is a major difference that doesn't work on a tennis s coore And yeah, but let me tell you something, Hey, old basketball players and football player don't want to be running around though. I hear you, I hear your golf is unique that way. Hey man, you've been so generous with your time. This has been a blast, as I knew

it would be. Love hearing your stories and your wisdom and your gratitude and all that stuff, and massive respect for what you do. Uh at T n T you got. You guys are the gold standard and we appreciate it. And and you've almost inspired me to unretired to get the Cubs back out. And I need to work in the dark, away from everything, get my game back together and then uh maybe unveil it and unretired because it's been so much fun talking to you. Hey, I want

to thank you for having me continue success. Uh listen, if you ever need me again, just reach out and uh, thanks for having me. You're the best Charals. I appreciate it, man. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Charles is unique. I love the man and you heard him. You heard him offer. So maybe we'll do this again sometime down the line. But we thought this would be a great way to end our first series of episodes.

Really appreciate all the feedback. We're gonna take a brief hiatus and then come back with more episodes on compelling topics with really fun, interesting guests. We'd appreciate it if you'd rate and review the podcast, and of course subscribe. Many thanks to my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster for her numerous invaluable contributions, and to our producer Jason Whitehelt. Stay well, we'll talk to you soon.