All Singing, All Dancing (with Tom Witcombe)

Go on, not pagon, go not painted good we bragon We're gonna code that word. Four finger Discounted.

Hey guys, Dan A here and welcome to four figure discount where this week Guy and myself we're lucky to be joined by comedian Tom witcamb to review the episode All Singing, All Dancing, the final clip show of the Golden Era, the one that showcases the many songs of the Simpsons. We covered a lot of topics, including what makes a good Simpsons song, the best Simpsons musical parodies, and so much more. Plus we also covered Tom's career and the impact that The Simpsons had on his comedy.

I'm very well, thanks. How are you guys?

Yes, doing fantastic.

We're very pleased to be joined by the Don Draper of comedy. Hang on a second, happy to be joined by the Pete Campbell of comedy.

I was going to say, the Don Draper, none of those allegations hold up. I don't believe that they're baseless. Those women can't be trusted.

What of absolute zero Kelvin coolness? Is that what you're talking about?

Tom?

From the Don Draper to comedy to the Pete Campbell to comedy A rapid de escalation. I was feeling pretty good.

I skipped the Lane Price stage.

Yes, lay In Price, I mean tragic ending, But what a journey on the way.

There, MVP, you know while he was actually there. Absolutely If you haven't watched mad Men, watch Madman otherwise you don't know what the fuck we're talking about. But the thing of it is that Tom, when he is not making us laugh with his comedy styling's on stage, is using his marketing magic to persuade us to buy things that we definitely want and yeah, maybe need.

Yeah, predominantly Dick pills at the moment. That's my that's my main concern.

How do you source them? Though?

From pilot dot com dot. You got to pilot of com dot you use the code flog as twenty for twenty dollars off your first order. I'm gonna plug my podcast one here.

By the way, it's called a segue, and it's great that you use the term flog.

Yeah, exactly, it's a perfect brand integration.

Really, let's talk about flog Cabin for those who unaware. When did it start? Let's dive into it.

We're about one hundred and four episodes in, so we're just what yeah, two years almost exactly two years. There you go. It's a podcast with myself, my friends Daniel Muglesman Andrew Hamilton too, more successful comedians than me. Yeah, it's just kind of that classic comedians go on and talk about either erections or bodily functions for a couple of hours each week.

That's us.

It's not unlike ful thing Discount, except without the comedian aspect.

Oh really, how do you find trying to break out of podcasting?

Now?

We're talking about it recently on the show. It's so saturated, it's all we've been talking. It's so oversaturated now the podcast market. How do you find trying to separate yourself from the pack.

Yeah, as soon as we work out how, I'll let you guys know. I like, I think it's very very hard. I think, you know, as comedians, you can at least kind of rest on the idea that even if you're just making your own fans like you more, you don't necessarily need to be growing. Like going deeper is really valuable because you can sell tickets to things, and you can, you know, get them to watch stuff online. Like there's other avenues to kind of turn it into a career,

How long have you guys been doing this for twenty fifteen?

Yeah? Right, okay, so yeah, you guys, that's probably a pretty I mean, you'd always like to start earlier, but that's a pretty perfect time to start, right. That would have been a good.

That's what I say. I always say in the podcast. When I first started doing this, the people go, what do you doing? I go, I do a podcast, And people would go, well, what's a podcast? And now they say, what are you doing? I do a podcast and the response is, well, of course you do. Everyone does. Yeah, me doesn't feel special anymore?

Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I don't know, like I think especially it's really hard when I mean we genuinely our only selling point is it's us like it, you know, I think right now I'm loving I don't know if you guys listen to Finn Versus History. No, Finn Taylor's a British comedian and he does this podcast called Finn Versus History, and it's like, it's kind of like the rest is History that their tagline is a history podcast for people who don't care about what actually happened, and

Yeah, we've got the lucky thing of having the Simpsons, and everyone likes the Simpsons, so one hundred percent.

Yeah, I mean, is this do you guys have many competitors. Are there are many other Simpsons? Like, are their rival Simpsons?

Now there are?

Now?

Yes, when we started, we were the second Simpsons podcast, but COVID everyone went, we're bored, let's buy microphones to talk about our favorite show at the Simpsons. So yeah, if there's like two hundred of them now, oh.

God, what's not? Is the first one still going strong?

The first one is still going? Yeah, a long weekly still. I think sometimes they miss but we're still going consecutive weekly. But we don't see them as I don't seem as competitors. You know, you seem as competitors. You just get to drive yourself insane. You're just going to see if someone else doing the same thing.

That makes sense.

But we're here to talk about all singing, all dancing. But before we get into that and we dive into the episode, tell us, what are your tom earliest memories of watching the Simpsons.

Yeah, I mean, I was trying to pinpoint when I started watching it. I mean I probably would have started watching it before I was too young to really get it. I think it would have been I would have watched it when my parents will watching it, and it's that classic thing I think especially of people of my age, my generation of you rewatch old episodes and you get all the things you totally missed the first time around.

I'd no idea what you're talking about.

Oh yeah, just like and you're trying to set it up, and like, so home is here, and you know that you know the guy from the school who he doesn't teach their class. We teach the other class. And they just like, we don't care at all about this, except I do remember there was one quote that I said to my mum once when I must have been like ten, and she thought my delivery of it was really funny.

So that was and a stand up is born, I know.

And then and and then you have to find it. You got to write your own stuff. You can't just quote the Simpsons on stage all the time, even though I think that would probably be better for most people.

It would.

Yeah, it's a stand up version of a reaction video which was you all know, go gang Busses on YouTube. But I think it's probably great that you started watching at that young age. Even when you say I didn't quite get the jokes on, not one hundred percent sure what this is all about, You're almost getting comedy training by osmosis.

I feel that way about. I agree, And especially I loved like joke websites and joke books and things from a young age and all the way through. And I was always kind of like I loved street jokes and being told jokes and parroting them to people. And I do think you learn that sort of rhythm or that timing. I think that is kind of inherent in me. And I think, you know, the way that I do stand up is super joke jokey. It's like a punchline. I think that is quite It's formulaic, but in the best

No, not yet. I'm really con forward to it. I've heard great things.

It's fantastic. But one of the things that I kind of took for grant until I saw it was how many formulas they have for jokes and that they kind of invented in that series and they can keep going back to the well and I think shows like The Simpsons did that really well as well. Of like that they just knew how to execute jokes so perfectly. So yeah, and then I just think, like, again, I don't know, especially in the sort of early Internet era, I thought

Like the cycle bin will be something exactly.

Yeah, all the games, all the Monopoly stuff, like I just I was so obsessed with it from such a young age. And it was that I again imagine especially Australian Fox eight Saturday Sunday mornings, I think it was nine am till midday was just SIMP repeat straight into WWE raw. What else do you want?

Right? So? How so when did you grow up? So when were you What was the ear of the Simpsons when you were say like ten?

So what that was two thousand and two? So I think this is the other thing, right, which is I think the memories I have the Simpsons, my kind of Simpsons heyday seems to be the time with the purists say it started to get shit. I know, principal in the Pauper is like the turning point in a lot of people's minds, right, which is probably where I start to get really invested, where the new ones make sense to me and I'm kind of invested in it. I

Truly terrible Kazah and whatnot.

Yeah, yeah, I remember, I remember really early days on Kazar or Lime Wire, having like a couple of episodes on my laptop and it was like flights if I needed to, or long car trips I would watch. It was the one where Bart's in the plastic bubble. Yeah, I remember I had that one very early, and maybe a couple of Treehouse of Horror ones. But then I remember it was the one with RAFFI remember the one with the he was the the children's entertainer things for

It's interesting because you sort of so you see not peak Simpsons, but you grew up with like the teen ear and you see it as fine, where so many so many people just turn a blind eye to it. So what's your thoughts on the whole. We should say modern Simpsons is no good anymore.

A few times I've caught episodes or little clips of episodes, I'm like, this actually isn't terrible, but it's a different show. It just isn't what it was, which is like true all of them, right, Like I think Family Guys at the Shame show it used to be. South Park isn't the same show it used to be. They've all had to evolve, which I don't hate, but I guess I probably don't. What it is now is probably not what

We just finished season twenty.

I know I felt for you.

So it's interesting now, we went in very We went in with very low expectations, right, so we were at the bottom. We weren't expecting greatness. But I tell you there was probably maybe one or two episodes that weren't great. There aren't bad episodes. There's just episodes where we just kind of watched it going I'm feeling nothing, which I guess is a bad episode in itself as well.

We did, of course season nineteen before that, and I think that had one or two episodes where we were legitimately insulted or just angry about the poor quality of it all the way the storylines had gone on the way the characters have been depicted, whereas with Yeah, season twenty, as Dan I said, a lot of them were just like, eh, it's fine and you're not incorrect, and that that can

I think it helps with watching them in chronological order as well. If you watch a classic episode and then watch a season twenty, then you can see the big difference in dropping comedy.

Sure, what's like peak season twenty? What's like a great season twenty episode?

What was I like? I really like the one that's coming. It's called Gone Making, Gone Guy. I wasn't a huge fan, but I'm very big on the format bending episodes, like there's one called Trilogy of Era, which has the linguo Yes that season twenty is it?

No?

No, no, I'm just saying that those where it's not your standard episode, it's format bending, and that one's very much like that as a parody of the Da Vinci Code. And what was the other? The National Treasure where Lisa is looking for the Golden Child or whatever it turns out to be, Maggie. I really like it was a lot of fun. I think I find when it comes to more modern episodes, I like the ones where they break away for the norm a bit.

And when it came to twenty, I think I was very keen on any teen He maya mo Yeah, I mean I tend to like it when you get to delve a little deeper into characters who you think you know everything about, and you realize there were more shades or more dimension to.

Their character than you first imagined.

They've been sort of ramping up moas less of a hostile slash pathetic character and showing that there was, you know, very very very very deep inside there was a heart.

Yes, they starts dating a little person called Meyer in the episode.

Yes, that rings a bell I remember that. Yeah, okay, because I just I just googled the gone Maggie Gone, and that doesn't ring any bells to me. But yeah, the the dating the little person that does, Yeah, that does ring true a little bit.

And spoiler alert. They split up by the end because status quo, but in a more because status Mo. Yeah, yes, exactly, and in a recent season, I think it's like two or three seasons ago, they got back together again and then now a couple, which is nice.

Yeah, okay, right, very much. The post Oh what was the poo? What was it? Harry Kondabalu?

Oh what the documentary that he made the Problem show?

Yeah, yeah, it feels like a bit of a you know, I don't know, Simpson's gone woke mad, isn't it. It's just it's crazy, it's political Correctn's gone mad. Isn't it, isn't it.

Speaking of silky, spilky, silky segways, this is a fine talking about your style of comedy, which is, to use a phrase from an old con and O'Brien's catch inappropriate. No, but watching problematic and ignorant. Your your two shows that you put on at the Sydney Comedy Festival them all.

Right, yeah, yeah, among other places, but they were recorded there.

Yeah.

I mean you strike me, Tom, looking at you looked like a very sort of straight laced butter wouldn't melt in your mouth kind of guy. But you get up on stage and you say, well, you're not going insane up there, but you're saying things that you know some people might not expect coming from you. But it's also you've got the spoonful of sugar and the dash of arsenic in there as well, which strikes me as kind

Now.

Yeah, it's interesting. I guess when you have no tragedies of your own, you have to make light of other people's you know. So, yeah, I think I have definitely always been drawn to the more kind of I guess, you know, offensive, And now the term would be like edgy comedy, and now edgy has this really weird, sort of backhanded compliment element to it. I don't think edgy has ever really applauded anymore.

Which is sort of rolling your eyes a bit. Now, is edgy?

Yeah, exactly as Mark Barron said there that day, it's a bunch of guys in a podcast talking about the last time they shit themselves as adults.

Oh for sure. And if you're into that makes you listen to flog cap come up. But yeah, I think I've all always enjoyed that. And I think again, I was thinking about this question about how much The Simpsons has influenced it, and I think more directly you would look at something like a South Park or a family Guy as a more a direct kind of reference for me, which it is very kind of it's dealing with sort of yeah for black and better term edgy topics or whatever.

So we just we just reviewed goo backs on our south Park podcast as well. So you've got a south Park podcast? Yeah, in season eight, now going down to south Park check it out? Yeah, right, feel free to appear as a guest on that show.

Sure, what are you doing after this?

That?

I see? That was? And again and this is kind of like internet eras that Goobag's episode was one that was on my laptop as well. Like that, I think as the Simpsons was kind of descending, south Park was really hitting highest and Family guide.

So I think a lot of the Simpsons fans who grew up on The Simpsons feeling like it was the cool show, migrated to south Park. That makes sense, it's their comedy adolescence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

But yeah, I think the impact of again, having started watching it at such a young age, we don't have the context of what preceded it, and you find out so much of what the Simpsons did was just hadn't really been done before, and you take it for granted because you were seeing it at a time where you didn't know what was groundbreaking, what was trendsetting.

It just was.

So I'd be very surprised if there weren't things that kind of crept in into the way that I do comedy, and I guess just about everybody else.

I wonder if that kind of thing is possible now because everything's on demand now, it's not really the TV stations aren't dictating what kids watch now. I think it's hard for one particular show to really infla what's an entire generation of kids now?

Yeah, well, I think the Internet has just led to such a severe kind of fractalization of content, right, Like everybody is invested in their own little niches, and to them it feels all encompassing and something that everybody is around, and yet the people who are one or two steps

Yeah, I don't think to go on from Dando's point, and in your's time, I think in lieu of shows being sort of the common currency or the common sort of language that we have, it's probably a meme that will catch on and everybody sort of knows what you mean by that, or you can use it in any sort of type of situation as a response or as a.

Call out or whatever.

Yeah, and usually they don't last all that long, which can be a blessing in disguise. I mean, there was a phase there where everyone's saying was, you know, everything was very demure, everything was very whatever for about five minutes or so, and thank god that five minutes is over. But yeah, I think that might be sort of the replacement of everyone knowing lines from The Simpsons and using them in everyday conversation.

I think people the Simpsons live on now through meme culture. I think, oh yeah, exoltly.

Yeah, one hundred percent. And I think, you know, things move so quickly, so there probably won't be a podcast about CEOs at Cold Blake concerts anytime soon. And yet that was like the biggest cultural moment of this entire year, and already it feels old hat and it happened a week ago.

Yeah, Chris Martin's still trying to keep that alive. There was a new story last night about.

Some couple who were I think trying to cause trying to propose at a Coldplay concert using a sign yeah, and of course he had to fault.

I can't imagine Chris Martin trying to overcapitalize on something like that. That doesn't sound like something he had to do.

This show was brought to you by the four Finger Discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Seifeld, the One About Friends, and so much more. So go ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com slash four finger Discount, All Singing, all Dancing. Why did you choose this episode?

I just I've always loved the musical elements of The Simpsons, and I think of so a real foundational memory for me the Simpsons is listening to that songs in the Key of Springfield CD as I was falling asleep on

No, no, it couldn't be lame. I did it as well, did you really that?

But the thing of like having you know, just just a quote Homer Simpsons saying something funny as you fall asleep.

Well that's like on those CDs, like you're saying songs in the key. Just hearing dialogu from the Simpsons felt so cool because it's not just on the TV. I'm listening to it in the car or my Discman, Now, it's so special.

YouTube gentlemen are being very millennial about this, so I'm going to throw in an old man yelling at cloud generation X style reference. This is very reminism of like a Quentin Tarantino soundtrack where you get the like pulp Fiction or Jackie Brown or whatever, where you get the songs that are on the in the film, but they'd be interspersed with bits of dialogue because dialogue was just as sort of entertaining musical.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, I remember that again back in the kind of post an apstamare LimeWire days downloading. I think it was it was either Stuck in the Middle with You or one of those reservoir Dog tracks. And they've always got the Stephen Wright radio.

Intro capability super sund of the seventies.

Yeah, exactly, so yes, no, So I really loved the music and it was I liked how that has transitioned to things like again back to south Park, Bigger Logo, ron Cut, and the Team America movie, and then obviously Book A Mormon and then A Family Guy also have

It felt important special twenty five years ago though, when I was a kid watching this, because, as you were saying, we didn't have YouTube, right, so we couldn't just go on New to even find the song that we wanted to listen to. So this felt like like one of those so fresh compilation CD's, like the greatest Hit CD with all the best clips in the one episode. So they were necessary twenty five years ago, but now in twenty twenty five, they just feel redundant.

That's really I never thought about that, But you're right. The compilation episodes must have really served a purpose or clip shows must have said the real purpose at the time. They just don't anymore. I'd never really considered that.

Well, they filed a quota, they meant that the writers didn't have to work as hard, and they just sort of they just pad out an episode that they felt lazy, but they did for people who just wanted to find the best bits of a show, this is how you got them, and serve as.

A reminder of, look, this is what we're capable of as well. I mean, I don't think they're picking any sort of dud songs to reminisce over. They're picking some cherries there for sure.

And also this is in the context of I mean, how many episodes of season? Is this twenty four episodes or something like two ish or something. You forget that that was kind of standard in a lot of television as well, right, like especially, I mean I remember you know, the Supernatural Days or whatever, those suits or stuff you know right up until I think it was that Rider's

Yeah.

Yeah, so I I yes, I thought, great excuse to talk about the songs, even though I think the episode itself was a bit whatever.

Do you have a standout song of the Simpsons?

So I kind of because as I was watching it, I was trying to kind of clock if there are things that weren't in it that I that I would have missed, and I think in watching it was the kind of they kind of cracked all the hits, I think, especially for the episode see My vest is Hard to Go Past. I think that's fantastic. I also really like the Stonecutters song. I really enjoyed that. In terms of things that weren't in the episode, I have a real soft spot for the Flaming mos Cheers kind of intro song.

Parody ones are always great, aren't they.

They are fantastic. Yeah, and also also parody all the original means something to me is we're talking softball. I always really enjoyed that too.

We had a mail bag episode recently where we were answering questions from fans of the show, and I think we were asked about our favorite songs and we trade a few that were in this episode. I think one of the ones that I mentioned that I really enjoyed. I don't think they would have been really relevant in this episode, but they were the Learning Lumpkin ones from.

Actually, have you revisited that episode for for a while. No, it's revisited the music and that's fantastic, isn't it.

Yeah, and works in concert with a you know, a really touching story as well, so it's you get the best of both.

Worlds Now that I think about that. It is a very kind of adult story, isn't it that one? Like it's it's fair. It grapples with some pretty heady stuff you.

On the episode ever written by Matt Groening as well, Is that right? Yeah?

There you go.

Colonel Homer is like what I consider like the hidden Gem. No one seems to talk about it anymore, but Colonel Homer revisit it because what season is that? That's season three? Three?

Yeah, okay, yeah, it's very early for me, Like it's again, those were episodes I only would have seen in retrospect, and the colors are so it's all so much darker, and it's a little bit it just feels older.

What was your mentality then, so growing up? Did you go back and revisit those earlier ones because it looked differently? Did you go out it looks too old for me? Because my kids now I'll put on HD Simpsons and they almost prefer to watch it just because it looks better. Yeah, I've got a seven year old and a four year old, and they like they seem to just want to gravitate towards the newer ones. I think there's like to look at it it's just the visuals. It's brighter, it's widescreen,

Yeah, I think when I first started watching The Simpsons, you are just you're left up to whatever Fox it's going to give you, or Channel tens can to give you. Right, so you watch what's on and you say thank you, even if I would have liked it to have been a little a different shade of yellow, but yeah, I think you just kind of get this inherent thing of like, oh, this isn't quite for me. Maybe not as in I don't like it, but as in like, oh this was

Oh god, we watched it on the weekend. What's that on? What's streaming? So that's on Netflix? Netflix?

Yeah, it's amazing what TV looked like in two thousand and four or whatever. It's like, how the fuck will we watch it? Where our TIV is that small that we didn't notice how pixelated. Even these guys are enormous and there's still like four pixels, So it's it's bizarre how quickly those things move. So there's just like an inherent old nurse and some of the voices are a little different, I guess, and that sort of thing. But yeah,

I guess it's the equivalent of in the mid nineties my parents putting on a cartoon from the sixties and saying, watch this and enjoy it. You know, you'll enjoy the Flintstones. Brendan Well, I did enjoy the Flintstones. But for you, though, Tom, what makes a good Simpsons song? For me? I prefer to have as many of the town's people involved as possible, which is why we put the spring in Springfoot is my favorite Simpsons song. But for you personally, what do you want out of a Simpson song? Yeah?

I think like there's an inherent catchiness that I like a lot like there's things that get they're just earworms that get stuck in your head. I like, I was trying to think about how they're not necessarily gag heavy, but some songs feel a lot more kind of dense than others in a good way, where it's just there's detail in that. I think about that Stonecutters song and the interplay between like you know, the Martian popping up and Steve Gutenberg being there and like all that sort

So I think it is.

It's that combination of like, yeah, catchiness and then and then the kind of other jokes in it are the little funny moments in it.

I think with the Mono Rail episode in general, just having Conan's name attached to it just makes it just feel cooler.

Is that what it is.

It's very wacky. And it was the first episode where Matt Groening literally said to them, look, because he didn't want to do the Lenar Nimoy gag at the end where he disappears like Star Trek, right, he was very much against that. He wanted to keep it as real as possible, realistic as possible, and then he said, fine, just go with it, right, and it worked and it's like it just went crazy. People love that gag. And then that's when Matt Grany went, fine, go have fun with the show.

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. I mean, I love I love Phil Hartman, and again all everything that he ever did was before my time. But the more I find out about him, and I love Troy McClure, and I love Lionel Hearts and I think him having a bit of a that character is so perfect for him and his voice. So yeah, I can see why people get attached it. And you're right, it is the Conan one. Even I mean, how involved was Conan though?

You guys know he's from the writing stuff until he had the Late Night Is that what he started with Late Yeah? Yeah, yeah, so he was a head writer, right, No, he was never head writer. No no, but he was on the writing team. But the episodes he wrote were Homer goes to college large versus the Monorail and he's one that no one seems to really talk about, which is one of my favorite ones. This new kid on the block where Laura Powers moves in next door the

The reason that I'm that I enjoyed the Monorail song so much is just I feel the ingenuity not just of La Lanley, but also I'm just sort of swept up in his spiel. You know, I'm like, oh God, I'd be all over a monorail of this general was selling it to me. But then you you've got sort of like a triple layer of ingenuity because you can feel what Phil Harton's bringing to the table as well, just the joy in his performance. And then you're thinking about Conan Or and well, I guess everyone in the

And if you haven't seen it, he did do a live performance of it. Have you seen that time?

I have seen that at the Hollywood Bowl.

Yes, yeah, very very good. All right, So shall we get into our favorite moments from all singing and all dancing. Let's get in my favorite. I really liked that line at the start when Homer returns from the video store and he says they're putting on the waiting li for exale? What is it waiting to exale? But then he not the whole air breath. Yeah, it's great joke.

What I loved about that though, was just that I don't know if you'll appreciate this time as a stand up, but it just had that kind of mind and have laughter. What there's that gift from the sins as well with the stand up guys going eh eh, doing a hand jester almost but like home was waiting for the reactions, Like the joke's kind of hackney, but it's also kind of perfect. I loved it for that reason.

No, I agree. I think it's a it's a it's a great like it's a joke joke, which I love, Thank you for very good.

And being a clip show, it's hard to sort of find favorite moments, isn't it, because there's just not much original content in.

There, especially because and I know we're meant to be talking about favorite moments, it's not going to be shoting on the episode yet. But like I think the sort of jukebox musical approach. I don't even know it's called, but you know what do they there's a name for it, like Hamilton, where they they're singing the whole time once the musical starts. And I think that stuff in between the clips is so forgettable.

Oh absolutely, I actually I didn't mind that. I thought at least they're having fun with the concept. It's not just hey, here's a bunch of clips, at least because it's a musical that they're showing all the songs. At least they turned it into something different.

Yeah, I get that, but I just feel like they did the most first thought version, Like they weren't really too funny in the way they did that, Whereas I think that waiting to exhale thing, You're right, that's it's a good jo did a joke joke up front? I like that.

Yeah, I think I've written down could live without the Snake interludes.

Yeah, particularly him pointing a gun at Maggie. I was like, I just don't think that. I feel that that's a reason for cancelation in twenty twenty five, and I think you would do that anymore right.

Also, he pulls the trigger five times, he goes to kill the entire Simpsons family.

Yeah, I just couldn't believe that he pointed a gun at the baby and pulled and pulled the trigger. Grand there was a bullet in. But I thought and apparently the senses weren't happy with that, and I thought it was probably a good reason when I'm all for dark comedy, but pointing a gun maybe because silm my dad. Now I don't know, but I was like, oh, boy.

Well, because Snake was always a crook, but he was never just like a psychopath and he's like, for some reason, he's killing all the Simpsons for no reason, Like for what for a copy of Paint Your Wagon on VHS?

Was that? Was that why he was doing it? I thought he was just breaking him because he didn't like the singing. Oh is that what it was? I thought.

I thought he was on the run from someone, like he needed somewhere to sort of whole up. It was like, oh God, I've come to a house where people are singing for no reason.

Here is snake.

Yeah, basically speaking of Paint your Wagon, that's probably I mean, this was I guess original to this episode.

I mean, that wasn't in anything else, was it this? No?

No, no, this is the framing device for this episode. It's something that I enjoyed. I mean, it's been a while since I've watched this episode, but the whole as I said, I'm generation X, I'm a little bit older. But so I've got memories of Lee Marvin, whereas you know, other people are going to go, who's this old crustacean? But I love how they referred him as always drunken, violent, which Lee Marvin reportedly was okay, But I think it was Dan c who's doing the singing voice for Lee Marvin,

I actually have the Paint Your Wagon vinyls. What the heck?

Jmie Spencer's that head?

Well. I bought this for four dollars at the record sale last year. I thought I didn't know it was a real thing. I grew up just thinking that this was just a made up movie because it just seemed so ridiculous. Obviously it's is it a musical? It is a musical, Yeah, but it's not about painting wagon and things like that, right, No. Essentially, it's kind of like a musical version of Deadwood. Okay. But I'm just I've saw it and I thought, wait, that's a real thing.

I discovered the same thing because I googled Paint your Wagon looking for like the song, and the first thing comes up as a Wikipedia page for the Lee Marvin movie. I'm like, I had no idea it was actually I know it was real. So is it, like you say, musical version of Deadwood? Is it dark? Like? Is it meant to be kind of brooding? Or is it a pistack?

It's a serious story with it's not necessarily a deep and meaningful musical, but nor is it kind of a all sing all dancing romp. Right, Okay, Yeah, it's a light drama with songs, l like Western drama with songs.

So does Clint Eastwood actually sing it? He does? Yeah?

Really, you can find clips of it on YouTube. I mean, I actually recommend checking out the song Born under a Wandering Star. It's Lee Marbin song. And like I said, he's got.

This throaty bourbon for breakfast. Possibly true.

Leonard Cohen is kind of voice.

Yeah, Okay, check that out.

Yeah, Paint your Wagon anyway, let's give it some trivia.

Next question, you there eating the Beast.

My first question for you, gentlemen, is what color do they actually paint the wagon green green? Correct, not red with blood? I did that with blood. Or My first question is what kind of pine is the wagon made of? Oh that's my next question. I'll let you answer it, Tom.

Ponder rose pine. I this was one of these things that I missed that I would always sing to myself when I was a kid. I don't know what I thought it was, but I definitely didn't know. Was ponder just made up a word? That's what I used to do?

Yeah? Yeah, do do you finally still do that now? With songs from your child or that you've never bothered to look at the lyrics for you like, I'm just going to go with the sound that I used to make when I was a child.

Yeah, yeah, easier that way, I think I I thought it was oh so fine, was what I thought they were saying. Okay, because the wood is fine, oh so fine?

Yeah, well right, you've just told my other question. He was from others, mister Davis.

The b Sharps are performing Baby on Board on top of most bar. The Young paper Boy is selling a copy of the Springfield Shopper. What is the main headline on the cover of the Springfield Shopper? Oh, God, it's in relation to the bee sharps. It has nothing to do with the shapes.

If that wouldn't make sense with it now, I have no idea. Do you know, Tom?

I remember thinking it as I was watching.

Is it something about like, here's a clue, it's weather related?

Weather related? Oh, I'm out.

Then, I don't know, no idea. Snowstorm hits the Midwest, hits the Midwest.

It's getting that.

It's just it's just it's not what he said it says it is, all right, one more question. We'll get into this. Well, I imagine we'll all know this.

But where has Lar Lanley sold monorails in the past?

That's easy.

Oh, this is again one of these things that I got kind of Ogdenville, something in North Haverbrook. What's the middle one?

Ogdenville. It's not unlike Broadway. I was gonna say, I'm out Broadway, Brockway, Rockway, Ogdenville and North have Brook and by gummy put them on the map.

God, that's a great line. Have you guys did you I brought up before ever watched Supernatural? Do you give a do you know?

The show? Bits and pieces? So I never really got into it, but more life always goes This looks like a show we should get into it. And I'm like, ah, do I want to commit fifteen seasons to this show? Is it worth committing to?

Probably not, But there is a moment in it where there is a series of attacks happening, and they happen in Ogdenville, Brockway and north have Rock and it's just like this little it's totally walked over. They don't make a big song and dance about it a little eastrike, which ilways appreciated.

Best kind of gag. I find that a lot, not just even with kids shows, where you just see the little Simpsons gags hidden throughout which the kids have no idea about, but the adults watching the parents go, I know you did there. Blue is a big one for that. And we actually had the guy that made the music for Blue Josh Bush, on the on the podcast. Yeah, and he was so heavily influenced by the Simpsons when

Yeah, right, that's cool. Oh nice. I have absolutely no reason to like Bluey, but I really do. I have no kids or anything. I have a friend who has kids, and he's like, blue is actually quite good. And I think, you know, they've done such a good job, like the cricket episode of the State of Origin episode, giving people like adults or reason to engage with it, and it's fantastic, so impressive if you.

My wife wasn't into cricket, right, and then she watched the Bluey episode about cricket and it's almost like it explains to someone, this is what cricket's about.

You know, yeah, one hundred percent. And as Australians we need a talking dog to explain emotions to us. Whoever, Like, I really care about this, but I don't know how to put it.

We need a talking dog to explain most things to or something, Yeah, exactly albut needs to get someone like.

That in the cabinet. That dog could sell anything. Oh man, all right, so the visual aid of all singing all down. It was January fourth, nineteen ninety eight. The top three films at the US box office when this episode aired. Number one, Titanic, number two, Tomorrow Never Dies, Double O seven, number three. As good as it gets, God, we used to build things in this country.

What's as good as it gets?

That's Jack Nicholson and Helen Hunt. It's by James L. Brooks of The Simpsons.

Oh wow, there you go.

It's the best at the best actress, I believe. So. Yeah, it went best film as well. No, no, it's Titanic. Titanic. The Titanic went best film. It did.

James Cameron was king of the world. He declared it to all in sundry and everyone kind of went, this guy, do.

Your thoughts on Titanic? Tom still never seen it? You've never seen it? Look, it's one of those things where you just sort of have to have seen it. I mean, I I was what ten when that movie came out, so it was just it was everywhere what we what you were? You born nineteen ninety two two, So yeah, I'm not surprised me you haven't seen it, Okay.

So I think I actually talking about fiin versus history. Before they just did an episode of The Titanic they listened to and they bring up about you know, because James Cameron's a huge scene nerd, and like he brought a lot of a lot of things that he in the film he kind of brought through with it. I think it's a combination of like there's a weird thing about films that have become cultural centerpieces where I feel

It what it is. If you know the twist, it just there's no point, is there?

So what's the point?

But there is, I'm sure, But because then you get pleasantly surprised when you watch something like Titanic all the sixth sense and you realize the skill that's gone into it, the yeah, the power of the performances, or that you know the virtuosity of the filmmaking technique.

And it's a pleasant surprise in that regard.

Yeah, you think you know everything and then to discover a little bit more is kind of like, oh wow, Okay.

I'm sure either there's there's I mean, especially with the quality of the cast and the director and all the accolades. But I think probably the more honest reason I haven't was I just always it was a chick film. I just all thought it was a film for chicks, and I think as a young boy that was just like, no, you can't like that, Like, why would I watch it? What's the risk?

Is? I enjoy it?

And then I like a girl thing.

But there's also the element of it's not something you're going to have on a date note because it goes for so long as well, You're like, I don't have to sit for three hours and watch it. I want to commit to a ninety minute chick flick.

I made a New Year's resolution this year that I was going to watch all ten Best Picture nominees, and every time I go onto Netflix, just that the thumbnail of Wicked is just like staring at me. I'm like, I don't want to watch this. I don't care so long.

My kids keep asking to watch it. I'm like, no, that's too scary. That's great, but yeah, yeah, So Titanic was number one at the US box off was number one for a long time, wasn't it. Oh?

Yes, from ninety seven into Yeah. I think it was in the top ten for something like four months, maybe even more. Actually no, sorry, it was in cinemas for over a year.

Yeah, that's crazy, that's wid. This show is brought to you by the four figure Discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpson's reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifould, the One about Friends, and so much more. So go ahead and join the family

Yeah, this is a question you guys are definitely the answer to. And I think I know the answer. I just want to check. Is every couch gag you nick the couch gag?

They repeat them often they do.

Yeah, Oh, they're environmentally friendly. They recycle a few gags.

Yeah, yeah, right, Like the big song and dance one with the circus. That one gets used a lot. That's the one where they back in the classic era, if an episode was running short, throw that one out there because it goes fight forty seconds. You know, that's how they pat them out. You find it a lot more

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

But the episode kicks off with Homer and Bart getting home from the video store. We got the popcorn.

Did you get waiting to exhale?

They put us on a waiting to exhale waiting list, but they said, don't hold your breast.

I just think it's amazing that there was a time where you'd have to put your name down on a list to potentially hire a film, you know, down the line. Because now we just have everything at our fingertips. We can just I can pull up my phone and download and moving whenever I want you now and have it read to watch in five minutes. But there was a time where you have to go to a store and they tell you, sorry, we haven't got any copies in.

I mean again, it's classic. Like I'm nostalgic for a time I barely remember. But I just think every time I start a film now on TV, I'm like, are you sure this is the best film you could be watching? If there are literally so many a million others you could be watching right now, or a TV show, or read a book or put your phone on. It's just like just the idea of we've come back with this video. We paid nine dollars for it. We're fucking watching it

But there wasn't that thrill though, of hiring something that you weren't quite sure about as well, and the excitement of getting home going I hope this is good, and then most often it wasn't. But you know, sometimes you'd find a classic and it would become your personal classic,

So fun.

I was thinking had this last night actually, because you know, there's a lot of talk about the death of the mid budget movie, and everything's either a blockbuster of these days or a very small, sort of under the radar.

Cult hit, niche thing.

Yeah, yeah, niche thing. But like these mid level movies still exists. You'll just find them on Disney Plus or on Prime or whatever. They don't have a lot of publicity. And I know, I thought, Okay, I'm going to run something.

I've heard a little bit about. It could be garbage, but it could be.

A little gem called any Meaning, starring Astralian actor Samara Weaver as this getaway driver. It's like a very sub Tarantino crime caper.

It was garbage.

I turned it off halfway thround, like I really don't have enough time left in my life for this bullshit.

But in ninety ninety eight you would have committed to the whole things you paid for it. Quite possibly, that's the point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But at the same times, like, okay, but these gems might be out there. I've got to sort of not just say, oh, well, it's a new Avengers product or a new Star Wars product or something.

It's like, it's all licenses now, isn't it.

I don't I don't know what this could be. This could be great, or it could be garbage. Turned out to be garbage, But what are you going to do?

There's this idea in marketing they talk about like I don't know if you've heard this before. This might be very boring, but there's this thing called like maximizers and satisfies. You ever heard of these?

I haven't tell me about. I'm interested.

A maximizer is it's a way of thinking about something that you're buying or choosing. And a maximizer was like, I'm trying to get the best possible thing possible, whereas a satisfier like I'm just looking for it to tick

So good versus good enough essentially?

Oh for sure? Yeah? Yeah, like oh no, the best versus good enough?

That's right.

Yeah, but yeah, my, just while we're doing mid level kind of like things that throw under the radar, have you guys seen Companion?

Not yet?

Fantastic it's on It's on HBO HBO Max, And it's one of those movies of like the less you know about it, the better. But it's kind of like near future sci fi sort of thing. It really really great.

Loved it, And that name Companion is not what I relate to sci fi either. Yeah, it makes sense when you see it again. It's this weird thing, like even just seeing the poster kind of give something away a little bit. And I've kind of heard things about it, but I think if you go in totally totally blankets just I was like that with Galaxy Quest. You ever seen Galaxy Quest? No, if you like sci fi, check out Galaxy Quest. You'll absolutely love it. It's Tim Allen,

Yeah, Tim al Sigourney Weaver and the late Alan Rickman.

Interest Okay, because yeah, like I said, I saw Naked Gun, loved it and loved parodies growing up. Loved the Naked Gun, loved air Plane, loved the scare movie franchise. But I've never seen that. I've never seen space Balls either, which I believe is the other one people talk about.

Yeah, we just reviewed Spaceballs on the Movie Guy with Lynda Malton, and it's yeah, it's oh really, it's got this nostalgia for it now, but it's not that great as it.

It's when Melbo Brooks was starne to lose his speedball a little bit loser ball.

Okay, yeah, it's fine. I mean, if you like Star Wars, you like it more. I guess you're yeah, you're Star Wars fan. No, yeah, then probably won't care.

Let's move on.

But Lisa, she wanted Emma, but of course somebody didn't get that. He got Joshua Logan's Paint Your Wagon and Shoo Up Western with Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin and Barton Hope. They're expecting bloody Mayhem, but instead they get a musical. You know, they're singing March. Why an't they killing each other? And there was that time, as we're discussing, you'd hire a movie and you're excited for what you

It's sort of like some weird indie art movie, but incredibly transgressive. It's like John Waters making a horror movie.

All right. They torture women on stage and the people in the audience don't realize that they're actually killing the women, but they're just like women getting their arms cut off and things. We're sitting there going, who's gonna say it? This is? This is weird? Right, And suddenly we've talked about on the show in the past. How about you?

If you're known as the film guy or you know, the person who likes pop culture in your sort of circle of friends or whatever, you're generally gonna be entrusted with, like, oh, guy, I'll bring us over a movie. And I've done this in the past where I brought over Hey, guys, I have for scaring a lot of pressure and it turns out to be something just wildly gross and in appropriate that just makes everyone feeling comfortable as opposed like a jump scare.

It's kind of like, what kind of.

Sick freak are you that you brought this over and thought it would entertain this.

There's just nothing worse when you put it on and you're kind of watching it through their eyes and you're like, I've made a horrible decision. Here just look it around, like please please like this bit, please like this bit.

It's like when you're telling a story and you can tell halfway through the person you're talking to has no interest or any other like do I keep the story or just to stop?

Yeah, And then you get interrupted and you have to make the decision of whether you're going to revert it or not. If I just don't say anything else, will anyone bring up that I was in the middle of the third act of my story.

It's a kin to when you, Yeah, you're sitting there to watch Netflix or something it's like or whatever with either your friends or your partner, and like, I'd like to show you this thing I really really enjoy They get to take a leak halfway through it, no need to stop, It's fine, Oh fuck, god damn it.

What do you know for in your group? Like you're the what guy? Like I'm the Simpsons guy. He's the movie guy. What are you, tom Well?

I mean, like, in my non comedy friends, I'm the comedy guy.

A lot of your friends comedians? Or do you have like a separate group of friends who are comedians and separate group of friends who are not comedians?

Yeah, I mean, like, it's a funny thing about comedy writerers. You just spend so much time in the same spaces and around the same people. Like it's like any job, right, Like, you just spend so much time around those people. And I'm also I'm thirty two. A lot of my friends are having kids, Like I'm just I kind of have my school friends and the group that have kind of coalesced around that, and then I have my comedy friends. The difference is I see my comedy friends four times

That's all you need?

Though, right, Oh, it's a bit march actually, I'd like to get it down to one.

Well, the stories that you repeat when you see your school friends, you know, they can get a little little stale if you're seeing each other twice a year, but once a year's do.

You find you tweet the stories every time you tell them. Every time you retell something happened in year ten, is that something slightly different happened? The fish gets a little bigger.

Yeah. Maybe, I don't know. Like, I think it's funny how those stories they just get pushed further and further back into the recesses of your mind, Like I totally forgot, I haven't thought about that person or that thing and forever. My friend actually from the from the podcast, Dan Muggleson has this joke. I don't think he's ever been able to make it work your stage. I think it's so funny,

I find I'm driving down the road and have my wife and I go, do you know what that? And my wife's like, yeah, I know You've told me every time we drive down this street, and I'm like, oh no, I'm getting old.

I'm all out of anecdotes. I have nothing left to contribute.

You just see the lights that of leave your partnerspace every time. You're sort of recounty.

But tell us how you met? Oh okay, well you've got you've got your rips. You do you do? You and your wife have a routine like for what sorry is like, hey you met on not my wife, not we We've got a routine down pat where we tell it. We know which who's gonna tell what part? What the zinger is? That kind of thing.

No, I prefer that she joins the audience at that point and I'll tell the story.

Okay, yeah, I know your place, so I'll find it. Locked with comedians, a lot of them don't like to be out with at parties. Do you are you the opposite? Like when you go to a party, are you very social or do you sort of like trying to stand back let everyone else just do that kind of.

If I'm at a party something already has gone wrong, I'd rather not be there at all. I don't know, like I'm not a because I also think the person I'm on stage, like, I'm not just telling stories from my life, I'm like telling a joke that I thought of very that I very specifically wrote. I'm very like

Sit down.

But yeah, so yeah, I think for my school friends, I'm the comedy guy. Like that's the thing now, which is interesting. I have some friends who listen to my podcast and they're like, it's really weird because it feels as if I know everything that's happening in your life and you have no idea what's happening in my And then for my comedy friends, I don't know.

I don't know.

I like, I'm probably you know, my comedy friends I'm the guy that has an actual job. Is probably the thing your job advertising.

I thought it was something in marketing because you had your what was it, yeah, maximizers and your maximizing satisfiers.

Yes, that's a ted talk I watched a while ago.

You know, all about a B testing. I'm assuming.

Oh yeah, oh it's all about a B testing. I'm I'm b personally, but yeah, it's yeah, Jesus crast.

This conversation is over. I'm not submitted. I'm sorry.

I'm not I'm not trying to detegrate to the fine art and science of marketing and all that, but I was doing little research and finding out about a B testing. It's like, oh, so you're basically giving his options. Yeah, giving us two options here?

Yeah, god forbid, why you got a problem with that.

Of this headline? But we could also try this one.

Well, It's like, and again kind of this, the bigger kind of conversation happened around all this, and it goes back to the fact there are no mid tier kind of movies anymore, and we're just do the same thing. It's like, no one wants to take a risk, No one in any position of decision making wants to take a risk, so it's like I need data to prove that this is a good thing before I'm ever going

Yeah.

I think it's the same with like, you know, advertising now is just like it's you don't really get as much of these like huge million dollar campaigns out of nowhere, like let's see how this goes. It's more like lots of little Facebook ads and if that works, will put more money into it. Then we'll turn into the TV and if that works, we'll buy some billboards. It's much more risk averse across everything.

I think does being a comedian help with your work? Do you think being able to just talk to people just sort of be charming.

I think a lot of the skills are similar. I think, especially like people in advertising love saying that stand up comedians are sort of like they they are the best example of what advertising should be because they're observers of human behavior and whatever. But I think it's like it's all the same thing, right, which is noticing something interesting and saying it in an interesting way is kind of what advertising seeks to do.

I think, Well, you're trying to bring people around your way of thinking in a lot of ways. Yeah, in both ways, be persuasive.

You're constructed. Yeah, in some cases you're constructing an argument. In others you like, you're just trying to say something in a way that will make people stop and pay attention to that's right.

Yeah, we're getting back to the episodes where Lee Marvin right, and despite him being always drunk and violent, Tho sings.

Who that Lee mar of them could do such marvelous sports, He's dreamy.

Why did they have to screw up a perfectly serviceable wagon story with all that fruity singing?

I thought it was to talping fun.

Singing is the lowest form of communication. Are you singing all the time? No? I don't I hate to rhyme. You like musicals, don't you, Dad?

No, I don't.

I think they're bad. They're fake and phony and totally wrong.

Wake up, Dad, you're singing us song. Now we've noticed reviewing the SIMS is obviously the first twenty seasons a lot of mentions of the word fruity, isn't it?

Well, it's the polite version of the F word, shall we say? It's the version you can get away with in prime time?

Yeah? It is. Yeah. But then he breaks out and singing as well, and Marge puts in some VHS tapes to show him clips of him singing in the past. We've got the b Shop song, and we put the Spring in spring Ford, which is my personal favorite as well. But then Bart calls him the lame miserable. Was he call him the lame misrab la? Yeah, he's as lame as a brother, as as Lee Marvin. Then Homer chokes him, which is a gay. They don't really do anymore, do they.

Yeah, possibly there was like a little bit of controversy about the choking after a while, right, like it became the thing that people were not impressed with.

But in this time or just now, because people like to be offended about many things.

Oh yeah, I think over time. I think if you guys are noticing it, around season twenty, I feel like I remember there being some discussions about whether or not that was an appropriate thing to be putting on television.

Yeah, I think that we were reaching a stage where it was either this is inappropriate or it just hackeneings just played out.

Yeah, it's funny that you know, in an episode where Homer call Singing gay, we're more worried about the cartoon violence.

Well, it's like, I think it's the same people who you know, he said those articles where they go I just watched Friends for the first time, and it's very complicated. It's like it was releasing the nineties. Can we just calm down?

Yeah, yeah, it's the same as it speaks lother thing, right, Like, can you believe that they were willing to put that thing on TV that we all really enjoyed for a while, Like, yeah, we all watched it, we all had a great time.

How dare we.

Yeah.

This show is brought to you by the four Finger Discount Patreon, where you will find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifeld, the One About Friends, and so much more. So go ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com slash four finger Discount. But yeah, so this is where

He leave because he's out of bullets? Is that why he leaves?

No, he goes. It's just too weird that you guys are singing I'm going to leave. That's the first time he leaves. All right, Yeah, so you make you way too weird to be hostages when you're singing at me, someone's going to leave, and then home is actually sad that he that he's left. At least the points out that a lot of people in Springfield sing their songs. Is where we get the who needs the Quickie Mark song?

I think, yeah, I probably kind of knew it, but I don't think of it as one. I couldn't tell you any of the lyrics have been my guest apart from being my guest, but I could tell you all the lyrics.

To And that's why I think a lot of the Simpons parodies work, because that does work in their own right as well.

Yeah, because I actually sorry to backtrack. I just want to bring this up because I had this for my Like again, I don't think many of the lyrics and these songs are out and that funny. Like, I think they're very clever, and I think they're well written. But I do think in we put the Spring in Springfield, the opening line of you could close down modes of the quickie mart and nobody would care very funny.

And he's like looking around, what do you mean?

I've must have been I've got a big laugh out of who needs the quickie mark? Where I think it's some I pose things. I'm sorry about the salmonell and moment.

Oh yeah, that's okay, that's okay again one of those things when I was a kid, I think I had no idea what Salmonell was, and in hindsight, you're right, it's like, Wow, he's very nonchalant.

Someone now it's just a fun word to say. It's almost like the salsa gag on. So you a Seinfeld fan?

I was thinking about this. No, I'm not, And I don't really know why. Everyone who I know who loves Seinfeld has the same taste that I do. I just never really got into it. Big Friend's household, Bill, big Will and Gray's Household, not Segnfeld.

We had gooxy on and he was the same. He's like, all my friends love Seinfeld and he goes as a comedian. You almost feel like you have to say that you are a fan of Signfeld otherwise people will look down on you.

Yeah, for sure.

Okay, so we're putting Tom down as a guest for going down to South Park, not for talking sign podcast.

Of course, every Day Wear House all. That's how we pay our mortgage. Mate, what shows that people like growing up on? Yes, so this is where what happens after this? We've got those songs yet, Lisa then says, because they overheard him sing mister Burns singing the song that's but I save the puppies and busses it, but it wasn't worth seeing him to do the song and dance. But this is where Snake re enters.

I'm back, sir, resume wearding your pounds.

Okay, because of you all, I got a tune in my head and the only way to stop it is to make you all dead.

I knew I should have shut dead window. We come back, and this is where Snake pulls the trigger on all of them and realizes he has no AMMO. But so this is where Snake's left again, and Homer says, even the criminals are beginning to kroon. This is where we get the clips of the Monorail song, the Garden of Eden, where Bart from bart Selsey Soul, and we get the Stonecutter song. And honestly, like I know you said before, you love the Stonecutter SONGE know you're a big fan.

I mean, I love that episode and I love the Stonecutters as a thing. Like imb it's yeah, I don't know. I have a memory. I'm looking out my my my marathon choices and it wasn't in there, and I think maybe it should be. But like I loved all of the little like the ring that opens the vending machine and the secret doorway with the you know, the tunnel straight through to work, like all that stuff. So I don't know whether it's just like the episode as a whole,

This sounds like someone who believes in the Illuminati.

Tom Well, yeah, someone who's done their research.

I'm glad you did the Red Stonecutters for me. That episode is one I always throw to people when they go they ruined canon, you know, the principle and the porpi you brought up earlier. How people say that so with the show went downhill because they retconned a character, blah blah blah, and I go, have you watched the stone Cutters episode. There's no reference to the Stonecutters after that. Yeah, absolutely, canon doesn't exist in the Simpsons when you really think about it.

Yeah, yeah, that is true. Yeah, every episode is kind of a clean slate.

I think it's one of the insidious things about current pop culture is the reliance on law and canon or just strict adherence to It's like, man, just let a story be a story.

Well even I mean, if you look at again, this is much more in the new world of it. But I like how every ten years they do a margin Homer kind of origins episode and it's in a different decade. Yeah, Like I think they obviously that.

You know.

The problem with canon is I was like, once you've had the same characters with the same age for thirty five years or however long, like you kind of need to start throwing some stuff out.

Surely, well, there's new kids watching the show, and it would make sense to them that the Simpsons would have been growing up in the nineties.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Well there's an episode called that ninety Show which is where Homer forms the grunge band. Do you remember that one?

Yeah? Vaguely. They're kind of like Nirvana esque, right.

Fucking hate that episode. We really liked it. We both really enjoyed it.

But is that again because they're kind of doing a reboot because they've done other episodes of like their sort of margin Homer getting Together, right, and that was more Uh yeah, yeah, So I guess it's maybe that that people feel like their version of events is being attacked or something, or people.

Were saying it's just it doesn't make sense that why we watched the Simpsons in the nineties, so how could they possibly be teens in the nineties, and like because

Yeah, I don't know if you guys do a BoJack Horseman podcast.

But we're thinking about it. We've been told we should because they do that great like throwback gag.

If they do an eighties, they do a nineties, they do it two thousands and each one, and they have like the little moments that they trade off from one another. I think it's fun.

Like, we've just launched a Bob's Burgers one, so maybe BoJack can be next. Maybe for TV Launch pod, Yeah, we've got another podcast where we just review the pot.

How many podcasts do you have? This is insane? Like eight that's crazy stuff.

Yeah, a lot of It's now just we've got we review the first few seasons, throw them out there, and then if you want to hear the rest of you to subscribe on Patreon.

That makes sense.

Yeah, summer on hiatus. Yeah, you know, we'll let the patrons well for this month. We're going to be reviewing this show for the next three months or whatever. But what was like, what was I going to say? I can't remember. We've got another show called TV Launch but where we just review the pilot episodes of shows. It's something different each week, and sometimes we don't know what the show's about, and it's like, we keep watching this show.

Interesting? What are the best pilots? What have been the I think We're Wreaking Bad is one of my favorite parakings.

Yeah, we're on the X Miles pilots. Yeah, and I think we're pretty big on the Wire pilot, right, Yeah, there was no sorry the Shield, the Shield pilot.

Oh yeah, I tried to after I loved Breaking Bad, I watched it endlessly, Like I think I've watched the whole thing through at least five times. And the Shield and the Sopranos and the Wire the ones people always bring up as the sort of like, you know, the genesis of that ended up with Breaking Bad. So I remember trying to watch The Shield for a while and kind of lost interest, but but I vaguely enjoyed it.

Have you seen The Wire?

I haven't, And I like I tried to say, I know, I really should, I should just I should just do it now that HBO Max.

Is the thing, yeah, and every season is different, but okay, they did they add to the cast, but it's like this, that original cast still exists, but so it's main They've got the main cop cast, but then all the side characters they're off doing their thing, but they'll slowly sort of come back and it just builds into this giant city of characters. Yeah.

Wow, Okay, And as a contrast, if we're spooking HBO Max friend of the pod. May I make my old man Generation X case for SOW called Moonlighting? Okay, from the mid eighties, Bruce my man, Bruce Willis introducing Bruce Willis to the world.

Bruce Willis on TV.

Oh my, have you never heard of this? He started on television.

I had no idea.

It is Bruce Willis with hair.

Yeah, romantic comedy set in the Detective Agency, where yeah, Bruce Willison, Sybil Shepherd. Will they want or won't they? Frenemies slash lovers?

Man this size first time we're all there on that hairline, right, I mean, thank god, he looks fantastic bald, What a what an absolute asset to have?

You know, I can relate.

Honestly, Yeah, because this is a show that came out when I was a teenager, when I was about sixteen or seventeen, and I remember thinking everyceeding hell, I wouldn't be so bad, lucky, It's not going to happen to me. And then of course in you mid twenties, like, oh no, I'm going the way of all Willis.

Yeah, but.

Look, don't go much further than maybe season two and a half. But it really sort of goes off the rails. But certainly the first two seasons are just fantastic.

Yeah yeah, right. But but Homer says, Marge is now convincing that there's more terrible things than musical. Comedy is where everyone sings. And that's when a long running series does a cheesy clip show. I guess they always pike fund of themselves and they do clip shows. This is their way of saying sorry to the audience. I don't know. Yeah, a little bit of an escape patch of themselves. A bit of self awareness goes a long way, Yeah, Snake.

So it's funny, isn't it that I think like there was a long period of time where just being self aware was more than enough for those things, and we were like, oh, well, at least they call it out, whereas I think that has just been done to death now. I was like, no, you still did it.

You can't.

Oh yeah, you can't just bring it up and assume that it's all okay. Now, Yes, I do not accept your apology. Yeah, an apology. It was just like, well, at least we know. But Snake returns, they say they're done now, so he leaves. He has no beef of them. Margined and asked who wants dinner. They all run off and as she's closing the window, she's humming a tunes. So Snake shoots the window out and that's the end of the episode. Well almost, given that you have the credits.

Yeah, and they very sneakily try to put put the volume up during the k Yeah you.

Can still hear it, man, Yeah, you two greasy films.

Al right in the way?

Was was that a great snake or a terrible snake? That was that was a mid tier snake?

Okay, that's so funny because your reaction made it to that makes it seem like you're expecting a compliment, because I've got to say, by saying mid tier, that felt general to me. And you were still offended by that stetory of my life. You were offended by the lack of a compliment on that stake impression.

But yeah, so let's look, that's the end of I'm All Seeing All Dancing episode that we you know, it was fine, it's a clip show. What are you going to do about it? But let's talk about the specials that you've got available on YouTube. Do you have any specials coming up that we should be looking out for.

I have a new special come out.

When will this?

When will this be put out?

When would you like it to come out?

Well, I have a special coming out on the eleventh of September, so this.

Would be out, So this would be out soon because I'm sure this comes out before that date.

Fantastic, So on YouTube on September eleventh, I have a special called Selfie's at the nine to eleven Museum, hence the release date, so I would love for people to go and check that out. And then I have to have the full length specially Ignorant and Problematic, both of my YouTube and then the fog Kevin podcast in new episodes every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.

Well, we'll talk about like your comedy, right, so you know you're releasing it on September eleven, What is like? What does your mom say about this kind of edgy tom is she like, is she just used to it by now?

My parents my parents love it. But my parents have similar senses if you here, like, I think they kind of get it.

Said, they're like Simpson. So yeah, and my dad like my my My biggest.

Memory of my dad laughing. You know that's because I've been bringing Family Guy up a lot, but you guys haven't. So I imagined maybe it is you guys into that, and.

I just stopped watching it. Never went back to it. Not really my bag.

Yeah, okay, so early on, there's that you remember, there's that hipp acac scene where they all they drink the there's like a tincture that makes you vomit. It's for when people in Majestic poison whatever, and they do a competition where they all drink it and they have to see who can last longer without throwing up, and they just spend up throwing up all over each other for

That's the thing.

I'm not about to name any names or anything like that, but there are certain YouTubers perhaps who will say quite inflammatory things under the guise of well, I'm just asking questions and things like that. I get the feeling you're trying to you know, do a bit of a juxtaposition here, but really, I think this is actually just what you think.

Oh yeah, for sure. And yeah, I think there's versions of that as well, where it's like I'm just saying I think some comedians have wanted to be taken seriously in certain formats and not seriously in other formats, and I think that becomes a problem right where you're like, well, over here is where I share my opinions, but over here is where I'm just being funny, And it's like, but they always kind of conflate.

Yeah, you've been Diagram's kind of a circle there, buddy, after a while.

Yeah, So yeah, I think you just need to kind of hope people know you're coming from the right place and that you don't actually think the horrible things you're thinking.

You're saying, you don't come across like you're just going up on the stage and ranting. It's clearly that you're setting up punchlines here.

Yeah, I think so. I think that also helps, is like my stuff is so clearly a joke, not in the intention, but in like the format. It is very much like set up punchline sort of stuff. So hopefully that makes it obvious.

This is I don't really I mean, we can probably edit this out. What do you think of a guy, NA, are you aware of going named Anthony Jesslnik?

Yeah, I love Jesslinic. Jesslnick was probably like one of my biggest influences.

I think, Yeah, that's the vibe that I'm getting when I was watching. When I was watching Problematic as well.

I had to be very careful not to just be jess Onnick because he's so specific. So and you think about what he does, like he was an English major at university, and he loved Brettie Snellis and American Psycho and all that sort of stuff, and you can see like he kind of is he He talks about how his comedy is kind of like a horror movie, and

You know, absolute sociopath.

Yeah, exactly, So I love that. I love j Just's He's fantastic.

It makes sense he's an English major. His book recommendations are fantastic.

I've been doing that too recently.

Yeah, guy, he just became best friends.

Well, maybe where can your snake impression? We'll get there.

Can you get a snake impression?

Absolutely not? But I know my I know my.

To quote Clarice, what a man's got to know his limitation, Yeah, I clearly do not.

I did a I did a joke recently on stage where I did a German accent and I came off stage it didn't and it didn't go great, And I came uf stage and I said to my friends, like, I feel like every time I do an accent on stage, everyone in the audience is going he doesn't want to do that accent. He knows he doesn't feel comfortable doing this out.

How do you handle when a job not, when a joke bombs, when it just doesn't give get the reaction you expected it or do you just go in not expecting your gags to get a great reaction and then that way it depends.

So if you've done the joke a lot and you know it's hit rate, like there are certain you have your set and you're like, okay, this is as close to a sure thing as.

I have who do you test on before you do that.

Oh, there is a period of time. There is a time where you just have to tell an audience for the first time and you just have to swallow the consequences. So if it's something that you trust and you've done it a lot of times, an audience doesn't laugh, you are learning something about the audience. And I probably then am less precious about their responses to anything, because I'm like, well, you didn't laugh at the thing that always works, and

Am I so out of touch? Or as the audience wrong?

Yeah?

Yeah, you're children who are wrong.

Yeah, it's one thing I did like I'm im it might have been a problematic. But where you display either the confidence or the faux confidence to be like, I've got no idea why you didn't like that? That absolutely slays or does that? I think it's fantastic, clearly. Yeah again, clearland the children are wrong.

There are times where you're just like, really, you didn't like that? That's weird.

People seem to like that, and that can work as a joke in itself.

Yeah, it's sometimes you just need to call it out. And I think, you know, if you have the confidence to be like, no, I trust me. I think I know.

I was gonna say, do you call that out when the audience doesn't respond or do you just move on?

Depends? I think sometimes if you call out how bad it's going, it can go either way, like, because sometimes it can just serve to remind people that it's going badly. Yeah, and they're like, oh is it you be like, you guys hate this and they go, oh do we Okay, I guess we'll keep hating it then, Whereas there are other times where you can kind of play with it, especially if like you've been good, you know, you've made them laugh before, and then you don't. You can kind of play with that.

Your self deprecations. Yeah, like a bit of Russian roulette sometimes.

Yeah.

Have the ever been like downfalls of being a stand up comedian that you weren't prepared.

For or expected in like life more broadly, or.

In anything, whether it be performing on stage or just how your social circle handle treats you because now you're a comedian? No, is it the life you expected? Yeah?

I don't know, Like I think, do you feel.

The need to have to be funny when you're around your non comedian friends?

No? Not really. I think I do think being a comedian has made me funnier in general, just because you kind of understand the structure of jokes a little bit better and you can kind of talk in them a little bit, sort of like you get better at an instrument, You can improve more freely, even though that's not what you you don't go on stage and revise every night. But you kind of you know what notes to hit or whatever, you know the structures do.

You find it? You just do that naturally. Now it's just you because you are more learned and you're more experienced with being doing the stand up that you just everything you say comes out as a joke, even whether you mean.

It or not. Not always, but I think, you know, like, if I'm going to say this to be the funniest way as possible, I need this word to be the end, and I need the rhythm to be there, and that would and sometimes you it's it's embarrassing, but you walk away from conversation where you've said something, you said a joke in passing, and I walk away and I'm like, oh, I should have said it this way. If I'd said, if I said this at the end is stead of that,

This show is brought to you by the four Fingered Discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales of Futurama, Bob's pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Siefeld, the one about friends, and so much more. So go ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com. Slash four finger discount insane That then the jokes aside.

And I think unfortunately it's that kind of hedonic treadmill thing of whatever you have. Wouldn't you know it's actually favorite simce it's quote I'd trade it all. I'd trade it all in for a little more like it's it's you know I have. You know, with our podcast, we've we've sort of you start to plateau as happens and

Yeah. I remember our very first podcast a different co host, Ray maybe back in the beginning, and it was thirteen downloads, and you went, I'm not doing it anymore, Like mate, just just keep doing it, Just keep doing it. And now it's like nearly ten million, you know, So it's just persist.

Yeah, it is all of attrition, isn't it.

It is? Indeed, But before we go, let you leave, We've got a question for you. We asked this for all of our guests. Now it's nineteen ninety eight. Channel ten have called you up. They said, Tom, we're gonna be putting together a Simpsons marathon on a on a Friday night. Five episodes? What episodes are you given us? And yeah, okay, so I it's a hard one, right, there's no perfect five. So I just kind of picked tried to pick some that I thought were kind of

I think I love all of that. I think again, I think I've probably chosen as everything you said earlier in the episode, he's kind of like, I don't know if it counts genre bending, but the ones where they sort of feel like there are kind of a step removed from the everyday Springfield stuff.

The Symptoms are the only Springfield characters that appear and after the first couple of minutes.

So yeah, right, that makes sense. But yeah, it's I like that sort of the new world that they're in in that new town. I love Hank Scorpio. I think he's very funny. Well yeah, all the little like kind of bond asides throughout I think are very funny.

Albert Brooks as as Hank, Is that right?

Yeah?

Basically, let I say, here, just speaking to the microphone for two hours and we'll work around it.

Yeah, okay, cool. And then I had a fish called Selma. I like, I say, I love Phil Hartman, and I really like Troy McClure.

That Planet of the Apes play is unbelievable.

That's what I was gonna say. Actually to the songs that didn't end up like I do, I do really like doctors as and Chimpannee to Chimpanzee, Like.

That's so good.

A lot of fun.

I'm so glad we got that from Phil before he left us. Mm yeah, yeah, I think taking from us. Yeah, they were such those two characters. I'm right about that, right, I'm definitely Lionel Hudson Promic Clau. They're just like four sort of what easily could have been kind of background characters. So so many great moments, so many great lions, which I'm a big fan of. I have much a power about nothing, which is probably again just back to that.

That's the immigrants one, right, yeah, yeah, immigrants, Yeah, yeah, And I saw actually I saw that meme recently where they're asking, you know, what were the what was the cause of the Civil War? Just just say slavery, itchy and scratchy land. Again, I just I like I like that world. I like being on the chee scratch I like where nothing can ever possibly go wrong, and that's the first.

Thing that ever went wrong. It's funny they actually mocked John Tavolta in that right, he's the guy behind the bar. And that episode aired just before pulp fiction came out and his whole career researching.

Oh yeah, right, yeah, that's funny, Okay. And then I had to pick a tree House of Horror. I love the treehous Horror series, and I was tossing up between five and six, and I think, like six really stinks out in my mind, Like I just it just seems my.

Personal factic was the first one I ever remember watching as a new episode.

Yeah right, okay. I just the mascots coming to life and the night more on Elm Street kind of parody, like they just they really live in the moment. But I ultimately, I ultimately yeah, the three D and Homer showing up at the end in the real world was very, very bizarre. This is a cube slowed down akehead like it's a square. But I ended up going with five because I love the shinning. I think that was really great. I liked that repeat gag of Willie getting killed and

It just feels like genuine horror. Number five, It's it's the pinnacle, I think, and to the point where a lot of kids who grew up in the nineties called the Shining the shinning.

Just by yeah, it's just the shin.

It's actually called the shining, but no, it's the shinning.

Well is it? To your point? Like I think, especially in the earlier ones, the sort of the way they walked the line between funny and scary was very impressive, and I thought like that was some really scary moments of this. I think that night my Elm Street one was pretty scary and then I was looking at like the raven always stuck in my head and as a kid, it's like, what is this?

I didn't like it at all? What is going on here?

I don't know if I enjoyed it? And I think I probably, like in hindsight, and now I hear that poem and like, there's a there's a bunch of clips online, there's one of oh James L. Jones does it, and it is it's it's fantastic. And the idea that the Simpsons introduced me to that poem, I think, and and a ground Poe generally I think is very cool.

It's a ballsy move too. By the sha because it is the kids show still season two. When that episode airs, the kids are expecting kids stuff and that airs, and it's not scary. It's just, I would say, dare say boring for a little kid?

M Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree, it's but yeah, I don't know that I enjoyed it, but yet it like occupies a big part of my mind.

So you remember it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Well that's so let's wart up for me. And so Treots of Horror five much poor about Nothing? You only moved twice, a fish caught, Salma and itching and scratchy Land.

That's it.

It's a good one kicking off with.

Though, Oh, first one, I want to ease into it, don't maybe, ah, maybe much of about nothing because you probably you're in Springfield, right. The rest of them all seem to take that.

The most normal of the episodes.

Yeah, yes, yeah, Tom, I'd like to think you've given us a marathon satisfier as opposed to a maximum.

Well, actually it'd be the other that I would like. But well I'll take it.

All right, Well, won't forget you? Follow Tom on Instagram It's at Tom Wickham Comedy. Your YouTube channel, what's your YouTube channel?

Oh, Tom.

I believe it's Tom. Just go to YouTube in that search bar, top Tom w Wickim comedy or Tom Wickham and it'll all come up.

I'll be there.

Subscribe to all this stuff and listen to Folkevin wherever you find your podcast.

Awesome. Thank you so much