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Dude, Welcome to forfigire this game with this week, we're going back to review an iconic episode from season seven of The Simpsons. It is a fish called sum rhyme.
Dander and I am guy and we are not alone.
We are not alone. Indeed, we are joined this week by the showrunner at the time in this episode, ed it is Josh Weinstein, an absolute icon of the Simpsons world. He is just an absolute delight to talk to you. You guys are gonna have an absolute ball listen to us, just talk about all the not just this episode in general, but just all the behind this means of his time working on the Simpsons, post and pre Simpsons as well.
You will have a bit of fun listening to us, but mostly you'll be listening to Josh. He's got a lot to say, and he's very entertaining saying it. Yeah, got a lot of behind the scenes dish, yeah, but a lot of insight into yeah, the creation of the show. But also, as listeners of the show will know, we're big, big fans of Phil Harmon, and we got some great stuff about Phil because this is a very Phil centric episode.
It was indeed, Yeah, and he's touched on how great it was to finally give Phil an episode, just give Troy McClure his own episode as well, and why they wanted to do that, so or we'll dove into that, but also just delve into his time at the retreats, which are really really interesting, some really behind the scenes stuff about, I know, just how they were able to get away with certain gags on The Simpsons, and a really interesting story about how he now kind of regrets
leaving the Simpsons in the first place, which is really interesting as well, So look out for that. In our chat he with Josh Winston as we discussed a fish
caught salmon. But Josh is one of those guys. He and Bill they were a team where they joined the Simpsons, I least season four, but they were the first sort of Simpson fans to join the writing team, and it really shines through in this interview here where he seems you can tell he's genuinely excited to discuss his time working on the show and as a fan, these are
the kind of people. Josh and Bill my two favorite people to talk to you because they are fans just like you and I, and they enjoyed their time working on the show, and they enjoyed making their own version of The Simpsons. And it's just it's just an absolute fantastic chat and I'm glad that we finally got a chance to do it.
No, it's great doing interviews like this. Yeah, just getting a look behind the scenes at how the sausage is made. Sometimes you say you shouldn't do that, but when the sausage is this tasty, who cares how they made it?
Yeah.
Also just an insight into the creative process in general. I find them really really illuminating. And when it's yeah, someone is articulate and forthcoming as Josh. Yeah, it's even even.
Better now at the end of this so basically, we usually do our full run through of the episode, so we did. We will be doing that, but we talked with Josh and we've got about, you know, two thirds of the way through, and we'll be going for an hour. It's probably too late now to start a full run through, so we're just touching the key points of the episode because we've already been discussing it for like an hour
as well as well. He's behind the scenes stuff, So listen for once Josh and I, Well, once we finished our chat with Josh, guy and I stick around and we will record our full run through of the episode as well, So if you want to hear the full run through that is post our chat with Josh. But you're wondering why is this episode so long? That is why we didn't keep Josh in a line for three hours?
So look, who's ever complained about links?
I mean, he would have stuck around for three hours. I feel like it was up for it.
We were like, Josh, we gotta go.
No, not at all. And Josh, that's going to be coming back on the show next year sometime as well, potentially to do this year Scratchy and Pucci show, or maybe the Principle and the Porpa I think would be a fune to talk to talk about as well, because yeah, very iconic for dividing in the Simpsons fans, which he
was a part of creating. But again, don't forget. You can support us on Patreon for as little as just one dollar per month, so if you want early and ad free access to this show, and all the other shows we do here at the four figure discount Network, as well as access to exclusive episodes of Talking Seinfeld or Speaking of the Heel, or tales of Futurama or all that other good stuff. Yeah, to find out, it's on our Patreon channel and you can find a link
for that in the description of this podcast. Enough shilling is now time you guys sit down and enjoy our conversation with the legendary Josh Weinstein. And he was Josh Winstein, how are you doing?
My good say a good thank you? Is it like, is it Thursday there? Or Wednesday?
It is Wednesday morning?
It's Wednesday next week?
Yeah, all right, yeah, it's last week here, it's last week nineteen ninety five.
Donald Trump is now in his third term. So you got that to look forward.
Oh boy, well you.
Didn't you wrote but versus Australia, didn't you the episode?
Yeah, that's it. That's always We have always wondered about that because you know, the story behind it is like we got after we wrote it, because we were like we got there. We it was one of the first times they're going to another country and we're like, you know what, Australias have a good sense of humor. Let's do that. And then after it aired, we got all these letters from school children saying, why did you make
fun of our couple of blah blah. But then we've heard that it was all from just one sour teacher, and I've met other Australians who were kids at the time and said, oh, they loved it. So I don't what did you guys?
Well, see, I was a child at that time. I grew up in that moment in the nineties, and we loved it. And whenever I see oh Australians they didn't take it the right way. They were offended. I look back and go, I don't recall seeing anybody or hearing anybody who was offended. We're all walking around saying Dollarydoes I mean bluey? Our beloved Blue now uses dollary dues as their term for money.
Yeah.
So we really wanted that campaign to make it the official denomination to go ahead because that would be so cool.
No, very small, very easily offended sub section of Australians who were.
There's an easy to offend sub section everywhere, like even including on the Simpsons. I have a story about that about this episode about the table read.
I actually know the one you're talking about. Was it about the smoking gag?
Yes, smoking for two?
Yeah, let's talk about it.
Let's about it now. So we did't talk about fish called Salma and then always obviously Salma she got she got in trouble for smoking in the first bit and now it's worked, it works out well for choice Career says no, she's now smoking for two because they're gonna have a baby and go, Josh, what happened to the table read when that line was run out?
Yeah, and it's also there's like they're they're already there's a very like anti smoking and obviously cigarette smoker's bad free blah blah blah. But it's there's antis we always got notes about because you're not really supposed to show cigarettes in cartoons because it's still kind of regarded as a kid's show even then even then, so like we get notes, but we are allowed, we are allowed to
do it. We are allowed to do it anyway. And also so anyway, so here's the thing about Simpson's Table Reads is like you're there to laugh and support the script and if you don't like a joke, you know, don't laugh, but don't, for god's sakes, don't call out during the table read like this person did when they're
offended by the joke. Then was when they're decide that they're gonna have a baby and the major d brings up some cigarettes for Selma uh before because they didn't like her smoking, but now that she's famous, blah blah blah, they bring her cigarettes and Troy says, somebody asks somebody something and Troy says, yeah, now she's smoking for two And during the table read, somebody on the Simpsons staff I will not say who called out and said that has got to go, And it's like nobody and you
don't do that. Nobody does that. And it's also like nobody except like the actors and the person running the table read is supposed to ever say anything during a read. And there was just like a moment of silence and we just like continued.
Is that right? During the table raids? You just shut up? Is that basically the case?
You should? You shut up and hopefully you laugh. And normally there's like a ring, like there's a ring of writers, like the actors and like the showrunner who's usually the narrator sits at the table with actors and then like the writers, and it's like, you know, like thirty of her peat staff members who sit around the room and we learned the writers. We would place ourselves next to particularly sour people to like laugh ex and we'd laugh extra loud to try to get them to laugh or
compensate for their sourness. But this was a person who'd like never laughed and was not really as someone who didn't really know what they did on the show. But I guess it was to call out jokes they didn't like. But eventually that person left the show. Not the joke.
So, but it is the thing, Josh, I mean, it strikes me as kind of a fundamental misunderstanding of Troy McClue, but also Troy McClure in this episode where he's extra selfish, because I mean, you're putting this kind of dog gag in the math of someone who's incredibly uh, you know, vain, insensitive, thoughtless. You know, it works really really well.
Yeah, And that's the whole kind of point of a joke, is it is like thoughtless, and it is like it is like pointing out that that's not a good thing.
So anyway, Well, we do a staff pop podcast as well, and quite off for me will heep people say, oh, cotmany can you believe he's doing that? Can you believe he's doing this? And it's saying this, It's like, yeah, but it's common saying he's the bad guys to.
Be saying these things exactly.
But but yeah, do you miss your time working on The Simpsons?
I do, because it was such they were really heavy days because it was in it's I don't know how it is now, but in the nineties it was also because the internet was so nacent and like it was really like it took ten minutes. It was a time of dial up modems, so it take us ten minutes to dial up to get online to read all TV Simpsons where someone is saying worst episode ever, and it ended up being an episode that everyone regarded as classic.
So we were kind of like, but we're kind of very pleasantly sheltered because we really didn't like there wasn't a lot of internet fandom going on, so we were really just writing for ourselves. And also in the nineties, during our time there, the Simpsons was still regarded as like a kids show by adults. So like anyone over forty either didn't like The Simpsons or didn't even know about it, and so we were really like writing for ourselves.
And you know the whole story about how Fox wasn't allowed to give us notes, So we were really like sheltered in like a very good way, and we were just writing for ourselves and Mac crating and Jim Brooks was around occasionally. He had a big role in this episode, by the way, and also like Matt was there and they always like were super supportive of whatever we wanted
to do. So it was really that for that reason, and also for the reason that Bill and I were huge fans of the show before we started working on it, and we were the first fans to ever write for the show. So we were just in giddy la la land. Even like when we were running the show and it was really hard, in exhausting, it still was kind of thrilling to be able to do it.
Just before we talk about you and Bill working a showrunners on The Simpsons, I'd like to find out a bit about your relationship, which is fairly long standing. Yeah, I was thinking about when reading about you guys, in your relationship, I was thinking about I'm a big Kids
in the Hall fan. And there was this great documentary about them recently where they talked about how Dave falling, Kevin McDonald and each other, and they sort of it was love at first sight because they were able to make each other laugh almost instantly, and they said, Oh, he's the most integrated I feel with another person. It's
almost like, yeah, it's like finding your first love. Not to I'm wondering if it's like that with you and Bill, if you sort of have if you feel sympaticial in that way.
A writing team is. It's always likened to marriages, and it's very true, and it's also it helped that Bill and I met when we were like sixteen in high school and like still in our formative years, and in fact, the first time we kind of really met was in this geometry class with this horrible, this evil teacher who in fact we put we put in the show She's one of the child services woman in Home Sweet Diddly, Dumb Diddly. She was an evil, horrible, mean spirited teacher
and she made people cry. And we were in high school. But anyway, so we were in this geometry class and Bill, who's also, who's a really good cartoonist threw caricatures of everybody in the class and I really liked them, and we started talking and then we just kind of like
hit it off from there. And then we started a humor magazine in our high school and also a lot of and and the headmaster of the high school tried to shut it down, but everybody else liked it, and then it ended up like teachers liked to be put into it because they were like, oh, that means I'm popular or whatever. So it was like it was like a hit for while we were there.
I'm sorry, this is like a Superhero origin store I fixed.
Yeah. So And as a matter of fact, also, like so a lot of like Principal Skinner existed before we came on the show, but he are writing of him and you is based on a lot of the teachers and the headmaster at our high school.
So you guys were always planning to be a team when it came to working in this field or is it just to just work out that way?
No, we did. We like we were pretty I know, no, not careerists, but like we we knew from like high school, like it would be great if we could write comedy together, and we had no idea, like would it be journalism, would it be advertising, would it be TV? Like we had no we had no idea, but we're like, this would be this is a good thing to pursue him. It's fun. So we did. We did, and we we
went to separate collegists. We both worked on our college humor Magaze separate college humor magazines, but we actually did a joint issue together on that and we, like I said, we always just kind of work together from dead and we also have our our own side stuff and like now like we're not officially working together, but we're still like really good friends.
What did you h bring to the table, because obviously you had a lot of similarities, but you must have h brought your own unique brand of comedy as well to the team.
Yeah, it's I think the interesting thing is our comedy is really similar, and I mean I think that's why we hit it off. Like we have really similar senses of humor, and our sense of humor I won't say matured, but grew together. So like we like so like we really like we don't have different senses of humor, and in fact, at the time too. In The Simpsons, we thought we were the only people in the world who had that sense of humor and maybe a couple of
our friends. And so it's really what's really great is like that we foisted our sense of humor on like impressionable young minds. So now there's a lot more people that sense of humor. But I would say, like we did in a good partnership, each person has their strengths, Like Bill was particularly good, though each of us are really good at jokes. Bill was particularly good at story, and I think I was particularly good at jokes, and
we kind of wore off on each other. So I learned a lot about story from Bill and vice versa. And so it was just like a good partnership. And also when you're running a show like The Simpsons, for it's a never ending task and it's much better when you have two people and a lot of time. When we were running the show, we would end up just splitting up our different chores.
Who did you learn the most from more Rodes's perspective at the Simpsons.
There were so many. It really was like when like when we first started, we were The other new person on the show is Conan, who had started like eight months before us, And aside from that, it was all the original writers and Bill and I were really lucky because it just so happened that a team of writers, Ja Kokan and Wally wall Darsky were leaving right when we had our agent ask do you have an opening, and they were like, well, we happen to have an opening for a team, and we were a team, and
so we got in. But I think we learned from all all those guys, and they were it was all guys at the time, Yeah, which thankfully now has changed.
Was that a lot that threaout your time there the entire time, that's just mostly a male dominated writers.
We hired some women and but it was like it was still like what's interesting is that the early Simpsons, though it was a totally new thing, it's like the last gasp of the old sitcom comedy world and the new breed of people are coming in. So it's kind of like right at the cusp because like Sam Simon, who is brilliant and who's one of the people that
we learned a lot from. He had worked on old old timey sitcoms like Taxi and that's so stuff and Obviously, Jim Brooks created some of the best sitcoms of like seventies, like Mary Tyler Moore, but they were in which those shows that were a little smarter and more emotionally in touch than a lot of classic sitcoms. But then like the Simpsons came along and kind of broke the mold, but it still took a while for it to break the mold of being like having a diverse writing staff.
Josh, you and Bill kind of got your start with the Sonfeld speck, Is that right.
Yeah, we we had. We actually got started before that on these cable comedy shows in New York, and actually we worked on a game show and then a talk show for this comedy network called HA, which eventually HA and the Comedy Channel merged to become Comedy Central. But this was in its early days, and a lot of people on the both the game show and the talk
show ended up working on The Simpsons. And in fact, our first boss on our very first show in New York was Ian Maxtone Graham, and we hired to work on The Simpsons.
You hired him, Yeah, that he.
Hired us, and then we hired him.
Yes, Well, didn't Al Jan didn't Al, Jen and Race work on Carsons?
I think, yeah, they worked on They I think that was they worked on Carson and then the Larry Sanders Show, and I think maybe Alf. Yes, So like a lot of a lot of writers cut cut their teeth on these like classic comedy or shows or sitcoms. And then Kate where I think, we're really happy to come to The Simpsons where you could explode all those rules and not have to go buy them and.
Yeah, but what an incredible ecosystem.
Yeah, And it's like so it was half. It was half people like Mike and Al who had worked on these other comedy shows, and some people like Sam. Sam assembled the original writing staff, even though it's like Sam, Matt and Jim all kind of developed and created the show and it comes from Matt's original idea and Matt's family, Matt's drawings, so they all and again like a partnership. They each of them contributed something crucial to the show.
But Sam assembled the original writing staff, and part of it was from you know a story about It's from this magazine Army Man. And there are people like people like both like Schwartzwelder and George Meyer and John Vitty had all worked on SNL and had terrible experiences. And for example, I believe that George was just like, I'm
quit this business. I hate it, and moved to Colorado and he started this magazine call just like it was like a mimeograph magazine, a zine called Army Man where he just have all his friends who are funny writers contribute weird jokes. And the Army Man magazine became something that people passed around in comedy writer circles as this kind of like holy Grail, like who is this and
who's making it an uncut, very mysterious thing. And and Sam Simon loved it and actually kind of went down the masthead and hired a number of people from Army Man so brought he brought in like these delightful weirdos from all different sectors and it just it just worked.
Do you think he pitched it with the idea of we can do what we want, that they can't tell us what we can't do something there's no senses basically, Yeah.
And Sam. Part of the reason Sam was so critical, and and and Matt and Jim too is they all kind of like didn't wouldn't suffer fools easily and could eat all saw through corporate bullshit, and so they were
all like, we're going to do our own thing. But it also happened that when when thanks to Jim Brooks, who was a very powerful director and producer at the time of movies and Fox Network was just starting out, I believe like when they pitched it to them, they said, we'll do this show for you, but you can't interfere
and you can't give notes. And from that moment on they kind of and we actually during the time we were running it, we were friends who have an executive who's a really nice guy, and we actually had to sneak him into table reads and not say to anybody like, hey have Fox executive is here. By word, it's just like, here's our friend coming in. Because it was like it was like an amazing thing and you would never have
that on any other show at any other time. So it really was like everybody was always allowed and still to do their own thing, and it became and for that reason, it became kind of a great comedy lab where you could try all these different types of comedy.
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Josh, I wanted to ask about when you, when you and Bill were given the reins of the show and on you came on board as fans. In that regard, I'm wondering about your mindset and your objective. Whether you've got the Simpsons is great, we want to keep it as it is. We've got a vision for the Simpsons, and we want to move it in this direction. Or is it a bit of a ven diagram with those two overlap.
Yeah, it was more like we don't want to wreck the show. And when we two to us, the seasons three and four run by Mike and Now were the greatest seasons of any television show ever, and we really just were like, that's the Simpsons at its very best. Let's just do that. And we actually kind of scientifically broke down what they did, and they were like, Okay, they had four Homer episodes a year, they had four
other family member episodes. They always had sites You're Bob, they always had it itchy and scratchy, and then they always had a couple of like experimental episodes, and we're like, let's just we're gonna imitate seasons three and four, but it will be new seasons three and four and seventy eight, and that's that's kind of was our model for it.
My favorite ear of The Simpsons is literally when you were the show runner seven eight. That's why I was because I wasn't allowed to watch The Simpsons when I was really younger, So when I was allowed to watch it when it was a new episode, that's when those episodes were airing. So they're very no nostalgia for them,
but I still think they're the best episodes. And what I like about them is that you guys straight away from the normal bit and you started focusing on some of the side characters, just like this one here fish called some or like trou McClay. You're giving characters that hadn't really been given any time. You're fleshing them out more and you expanded the universe of Springfield as a result.
That was the thing and people didn't do There wasn't a lot of world building in shows and stuff back then. But we were like, it's already been on six seasons and we felt like love the show will go maybe ten who and so we thought like it's time, let's end on. There's so many great side characters that that kind of came to life during the years before us. So we're like, let's let's let's let's explore why Flanders
is like Flanders. Let's see Chief Wiggum's family, you know, let's see Pooh's life, Let's see all those And that was that, that was the impetus for it, and that also, like that was an impetus behind twenty two short films about Springfield is let's see let's see all the other shows that are going on.
I think that's what's my favorite episode of all time for that reason. I feel like you watched the episode and that is as close as you'll get to being a fly on the wall just flying around Springfield for a day. I just I particularly love that one because I love the ones that incorporate as many characters as possible. Was there ever a when you handle the reins to Scully?
Right?
You gave it to Scully after that? Yeah, did you ever say to him, hey, you should do this or was it just he's your show, now you do what you want with it.
Yeah, it was. It was always like that, and that was That's kind of what's great is, first of all, Simpsons is always a big democracy, like it didn't matter like if you if you're assigned the script, then your name will be on the episode. But it always was
like everybody's out for everybody else. It's very different from a lot of shows, like the opposite is SNL, where apparently writers are really competitive and always trying to kill each other's sketches, whereas in the Simpsons it's a democracy.
And in fact, this went on our very first day, like Mike and Now told us there's like a couple of rules, and then we always live by these rules, and then people like us or like Greg Daniels who's gone on to create great shows, carry those rules with them and like what rule number one is you leave your ego at the door. And it's just like it doesn't matter if you say the great joke or somebody else it's all for the joke ord the story itself. And also never say no to an idea. That's the
job of the person running the room. So you don't like if someone pitches a joke or an idea you don't like, you don't go I don't like that, or that's not good. You either stay silent or you pitch a better one and let the room runner do it. And so it just creates a much more free flowing,
positive atmosphere in the room. And it's like we were like because we had never been on a sitcom before, so we didn't know, but there are people like Scully had a lot of experience in in more mainstream sitcoms, so he he came in knowing what was good and bad about them, and he also like it's also like everybody was always really friendly on the show. It's just
a bunch of nerds. So it's like it had a much more cohesive, supportive atmosphere than other sitcoms where he got a lot of like loud assholes.
Do you think that's evident in the show itself. Do you think the tone of the show?
Yes, yeah, because it was And this is the thing that that can't sort of came from both. Came a lot from Matt and a lot from Jim Brooks and a lot from Sam. And also all the people were kind harder. It's like emotion, The emotion always have to be real, even if it's a crazy circumstance. The characters
have to act and respond in realistically emotional ways. And that's part of what made the show so great is a lot of times it was more emotionally real than other live action sitcoms, and I think that show still maintains it. And it's also why I think part of what was so appealing is there's an essential kindness and sweetness to it. And we also found that the more emotionally hooked in someone was to an episode, the more they liked the jokes. Anyway.
Yeah, I don't know if we want to jump ahead to talking about a Phish coal sell. Yeah, but I mean that's really evident in this episode. I mean, this is an episode that could be it could have a really cold and cruel and cynical outlook, but it's really sort of emotionally aware and mature in so many ways. I mean, even the Indians kind of like, I mean, try mcclus kind of kind of a hell. He's very much a Haal in this, but he's also a guy.
I feel sorry for him.
He's trapped in his own.
Yeah. That's one thing is I think we're we're very good at is feeling for whichever character you're the story is swirling around, and in this case, it's both Troy and Sma. But I hadn't. I don't watched the episode in a long time, and I watched it this morning and I was struck by, like how that ending is really both It's really realistic and it feels like they're even though they're crazy characters, they kind of made their
right adult decision. And it's it's very bitter sweet and that I mean, that's that's something that was always appealing about the show, even when we were just fans as there is that it's kind of like bittersweet.
Well, the takeaway I took from that ending was particularly the shot of McClue just looking at the window the sad music's plaining like he's not only watching Salma walk away, but I'm essentially watching his career walk away with her. You know, he's walking yeah without her, I've got no career,
Like this was my last chance not happening anymore. But also just prior to that, when she's saying I'm leaving, you could have easily taken a darker tone and gone, nor were You're not because I need you you You're staying here. But no, he lets her go.
Yeah, yeah, that's it. I can't I can't remember whose idea that was. The idea about the fishes was came from Jim.
Brooks, Yeah, which.
Is brilliant because we're like, we need him to have some sort of like weird rumored set kink or sexual fetish, but it can't be it can't be anything awful because kids are watching. But so the fish thing is brilliant because it's left up to your own devian mind what what's going on?
Because you're not actually implying that he's sleeping with fish. But I mean, although fat Tony kind of says.
That it's it's delightfully, it's delight it's the whole time, it's delightfully dancing around it.
I remember my mom was not a fan of it. My mom was like, what is this? What is this rock you're watching?
And also is the fat Tony gag it is bout Tony's appearance only so you can do this sleep with the Fishes gag.
Yes, yeah, yes, That's what's so great about the Simpsons is you have all these side characters. You know, Oh, we need like a mafia style, so we got fat Tony. Yeah. And also what I will see. What I really like about this episode is up until this episode, Troy McClure was just kind of like a one note joke character, and we were like, he's there living his life. Let's see what it's like. And it was our chance to do kind of like sad Hollywood lives.
It's it's what I wanted to talk about because we rewatching this episode. Listeners of our show will know that one of my favorite movies is Once upon a Time in Hollywood, particularly Rick Dalton and Terry mcclu is just an absolute Rick Dalton, you know, in terms of like just the body of work that he's got, the ego
that he has. You know, he's constantly sort of got his eye out for the main chance, even though he knows his careers on the way, and so yeah, having this opportunity to flesh him out and give him a whole life in the space of a a half hour episode. I think it's just brilliant and also something I wanted to say is want to ask was and if I'm wrong, please just don't disabuse my notion. There was a whiteboard in Simpson's HQ that is just all you may know me from these titles.
No, those were so hard that when somebody came up of it, we used it like those were like the Troy mcclurr move, coming off a good Troy mccurr movie, and this one episodes full of them is one of the hardest Simpson's tax So the moment you have a good one, it's going in the show. There's no there's a whiteboard of like still episodes that we wanted to do, but there was no joke, Joe, all good jokes were used instantly.
I just thought, it's like Alice through the windshield glasses one from a previous episode. But some of it are so cruel, but they're so funny.
So yeah, that's like the the towel, the what is it the towel with with Larry.
The blinding of lens, But yeah, that's.
Real chalitable again, kid got kinded with horror of horse plea.
But I love that it's that, but that you might know me from or you might remember me from is just a runner all through. It's not necessarily about you might remembery from such films, you might remember from this date last night or what. Yeah, the fact that it becomes that running gag I.
Think part of his every day vernacular.
Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, I love that too.
Gold standard comedy writing as far as I'm concerned.
But what I love about this episode too is it's a bittersweet because as a diehard Simpsons fan, you love it because it wasn't long after this that we tragically
lost or Phil Harton was taken from us. So I'm just so I'm appreciative that this episode exists because you know, had you not done this, we might now never have got it, you know, So the fact that you were able to recognize, let's do it now, and the fact that you did it, and it's such a great episode as well, and it really it pays tribute to Troy McCay. It mocks him, but it also pays love to him as well.
Yeah, that's what I love about the Simpsons is particularly good. It both makes fun of but loves every single character. But we did it. Also one of one of the reasons we did it too is is Bill Hartman is like the Simpson's secret weapon, is he is somebody who
he would make straight lines funny. So we knew, like we always wanted to work him into episodes because we knew it would be a guaranteed laugh and in this episode because he makes every single line funny and he's just like, there's very there are very few people on earth who could who could do that, and but but Phil was one of them.
There's a bit I think when he first made Selm when he says as an actor, I depend on my remarkable looks. I've written that nobody did insincerity more sincerely than Phil Hartman.
Yeah he would. Yeah, that's a real that's a real craft.
Yeah, I mean, can you just give us five ten twenty minutes on Phil Hartman just like what it was worked like to work with the guy.
Yeah, that's a both both he and Kelsey Grammer, who they both when they would come in and we would record them, everybody kind of like pepped up and were excited because they were both both of them were incredibly kind people, like just they you would not think that they were TV stars like they would. They would be people like, Oh, I wish I could hang out with them.
They're just like really down to earth, no ego, but also just really funny and also gung ho for doing Like some actors can be difficult, but like Phil, Phil would do whatever you put in front of him, and he'd also bring a lot of times it'd bring a really weird spin to it. Like we knew, like, even if it's a straight line, okay, he's gonna do something
funny with it. And and so we we just always wanted to like Bart versus Australia, we intentionally wanted him as the US embassy guy because we knew, like that's like making a funny a funny preppy state department guy is hard to do, but we're like, Phil's going to do it. So we just we just he was one of our very favorite people to work work into an episode.
It's been it's been a story at that you were going to work on potentially a live action yeah, for mcclu a movie. And you've mentioned to me that you once discussed this with Phil. I need to hear about it.
Yes, we discussed it a number of times with Phil, and it did it like it didn't get beyond talk before he was tragically hurdering. And but what happened is we would we were friends with people from the show News Radio and so, and I do not I don't the thing that I don't remember if this was while Bill and I were still running the show or after
we had left, but the talk of it started. We'd go to so we go to news radio parties and Phil would see us and it's like, Oh, it's a Simpsons friends and so we're talking and that's I know. It was at one of us parties where we first said, I want to do a live action Troy McClure movie. And we were like, that is brilliant. That's so good because it's like in a lot of like the voiceover actors may or may not in real life be able to play their characters, but Phil, it could. It's exactly
Troy McClure, you know. And so a live action Troy McClure movie would just be brilliant where you could see live action clips of his past movies. But he also would have been having some sort of Troy McClure detective or some sort of adventure that would be the true line of a story and we and so we saw a number of parties went on where that's all like we would talk about, is we got to do this Troy McClure movie, but then it then he got killed and that that was that.
I have never been more excited for a project that could have been and more sad that it never happened. That I'm, yeah, holy shit, that would have been my favorite movie of all time.
Because it was also like that would have been like could have been like the first Simpsons movie. Yeah, and it would have been. And it's also like such it's such a kind of like a brilliantly left field idea and I think it would have really worked.
So was he was he excited for the project then?
Yeah, but again it was like it never got it never.
Got beyond just talk we should do this.
Yeah, it's like we it never got to like, Okay, let's let's let's write it out, let's bring it to Jim Brooks and Matt and see and all that. It was just it was just talk, but it short of felt like it it could have led to something.
But even as an elevator pitch, it works because because of Hartman, because he mean he Yeah, he had sort of matinee idolish good looks but also slightly gone to see. But he was also such a chameleon that you could see him playing all these different roles as Troy McClure in real life.
Yeah. And it was also an era of the nineties of those type of really great crazy comedies. Yeah, so it really could have worked.
I'm so glad that. I'm so glad at least we got. Yeah, we got this episode that we because this was almost it was a showcase for Teum mcclub, but it was a showcase for Phil Hartman as well. Yeah, because he's characters. It'd been it never really been the main character of an episode yet. I don't think. I mean he was Tom because Tom Cruise turned down that role. I think of season three, season four episode, and he'd been Trom
McClure and loneld hats. But this is the first time it was really about a Phil Hartman guy.
Yeah. Well that was like that was that was part of our our goal for these seasons is let's see a Troy McClure episode, let's see a Need Flanders episode. And all these episodes were like the Simpsons are kind of involved, but it's like it's no, it's gonna be about or mill House's parents, for example. It's not there one. It's like, let's see the lives of these other people in Springfield.
It's smart on so many levels because it keeps the audience engaged because like, oh, there's a wider world outside of Evergreen terrorists. But it's also great for the for the creative stuff as well, because it's like we get to flex all these different muscles.
Yeah, and and honestly too, we really thought the show would go for like ten years and then be done, and we're like, so this is we got to do it now because the show might not exist in a couple years, So let's explore all these characters while we can.
Bill has said to us that he never left an episode on an idea on the table. Everything he wanted to do he did. Do you truly believe that, Oh, there were there ideas that you kind of wish. I wish we had like twenty four besides for that season.
Yeah. Now I think it's like we running the show is so exhausting that like, by the end of season eight, we're like, oh, I can't wait to give it to somebody else. But I think, like, in hindsight, I'm like, there's so many more. Yeah, we could have done, but at the time we're like, we've done everything. We can't do no more.
You know, how long did it take for you to part with The Simpsons? Did you still watch it after you left or once you once you were gone? Was that I can't see what they're doing to my baby anymore?
Or it's more like we couldn't right when we left. It was more like we couldn't do we still I still watch, but it was more like I know how the sausage is made, and I couldn't separate that from like going like, oh, that much at joke must have taken a long time to get or like, oh, I could see why they did this, and so I couldn't just enjoy it on its face value for the longest time. And it wasn't until I have kids who are now who are now grown in their twenties. But it wasn't
until my kids started watching the show. But I could be like, I've been away from it long enough that now I can just enjoy it as a fan.
Well, the Simpsons is kind of having a bit of a resurgence in recent times, and I think that's a lot of it is it's on Disney, plus it's just so easily accessible now. But I think a lot of kids who grew up on the era you went on the show who may have sort of turned off postseason ten or whatever and hadn't watched the show for a long time, but their kids are now getting they're having kids, and their kids are now watching the Simpsons, and they're
going back and revisiting The Simpsons as a result. But I find I've got a seven and a five year old, and they enjoy the new episodes. They really like them.
Yeah, and there's great. The thing is that there's still like new Simpsons gets a bad rap because there's still episodes that are would be regarded as a classic if they were on in those years. And it's just the thing I think people have come to say. But it's also like there now there are writers on The Simpsons who were kids when we were doing our episodes, who grew up on it. And that's I have a whole
theory of comedy writers is that we like people. I'm like gen X, I'm almost I'm almost sixty, and we grew up on kind of crummy sitcoms like in the eighties and stuff like Mad Magazine and then some brilliant stuff like SETV and stuff like that, but we had a much smaller area of like really great, truly great
comedy shows. But people who are kids in the nineties, they didn't just have The Simpsons, and they had South Park, and they had Seinfeld and they had all these great really mister Show and all these other truly funny things.
So there, I believe that the young comedy writers are funnier and also more emotionally in touch than us older writers because they grew up with better stuff and also they grew up with stuff that was starting to be like emotionally realistic and stuff, so they're much better grounded. But I think they also have better senses of humor because of that, and like some of those writers now are the young writers and as Simpsons, And it's also people like Matt Selman is still like he still has
the spirit of like I'm going to try something new. Yeah, I want to try something experimental and see and I like that.
I feel like he's the guy that carries on the twenty two short films of Bett Springfield Torch. You know, he does the trilogy of Aaron. You watched the newer seasons, and there's a lot more of those I call them format bending episodes, but it's a lot more of those episodes in recent years. I think since Matt's taken more of the charge, he's willing to explore and experiment.
Yeah, that's like A really good example is the duff Man and his Daughter episode, which is a total side character but it's brilliantly emotional and hilarious and the same thing. So there's yeah, so I think that I think the tor Torches are being still carried.
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slash four finger Discount. Although sometimes we've found we're up to season twenty one now with the shows we've been going through, we still go back in movies at the classic slot we have with you here, but we find it sometimes those side characters didn't need to be fleshed out, Like, for example, there's a Comic Book Guy episode where you find out his real name and he starts marry I starts dating Skinner's mum, and he's just kind of like,
I don't think Comic Book Guy needed this much information.
Yeah, I really as like an all sour puss. I didn't like that they gave him a name because we always just like like, we always just like he's comic book guys. So it's true like some like some people you don't you don't want.
To know, yeah, exactly. And Gil was another one. They did an episode called what was It Killed Gill? Volumes one and two or something where he moved in with the Simpsons, and we all love Gill, you know, because he's always yeah gotten, and he's you know, nothing goes right for the guy. But then when he's in the Simpsons has in that episode, he's a real moocha and he's really he's horrible to people, and you lose sympathy for him, and I'm gone, why did you make me
dislike this character? That's it just didn't seem to work. So sometimes fleshing out these characters isn't necessary.
Yeah you have to, Yeah, you have to. I think they have to be and I don't really thought about us. They have to be characters that are like really emotionally loaded. So like, you know, Troy McClure kind of has some weird sadness in his life or some some weirdness in his life, or like Ned Flanders, you really you want to know why he's like that. But some characters are just so one note that it's just like, just leave him be one note.
Did you ever have ideas for a Linel Hot's episode?
No, No, because I think I think Troy McClure felt like the richer Phil Hartman character, which is like like Lionel Huts really does. I'm sure there's a good Lionel Huts story out there, but I don't. I don't know it.
Give him like an emotionally loaded legal drama like the Verdict or something where he's got a you know, like a civil action or something.
Yeah, I but he's had something that has passed, some legal thing that that drove him to be a lawyer. So there's something there.
But you're gonna have a whole betterical soul series about Lionel lot.
I think there's a there's betterical huts. But can we talk about Jeff Golblum. So he stars in MacArthur Parker in this episode here. I kind of really interesting. You were saying in the commentary that and he couldn't even remember doing this, but then until you reminded him, was yeah, made him do it twice because he spoke in his usual sort of slowish way. He's he's unique brand of comedy. But because McClure and Salma such slow speakers, the episode
was just too long. The kind of had too many gags. So you literally had to say, of Jeff, can you do it again? And do it faster? Which is why it took me a while to actually pick up on this appearance because he's not speaking long he would normally speak. He is speaking a lot faster.
Yeah, you know, I I forgot about that till you reminded me. Because I was listening to it this morning. I was like, that's a really fast read, and he's like, toy, it's macfforin Parker, And I was like, why is he talking so fast? Because we told him to because we also we knew that was the thing, like when you do an episode around certain characters. We knew Patty and Selma were slow talkers, just like like Marge obviously, and
Toy McClure is. And so that's also like why there's not like a real bet story because there's no time, but everybody else gotta speak quickly because of that. Yeah, I forgot about that. And Jeff Goldblum, as we said, I think we said it in contary, was one of our favorite guest stars because he was so nice. He he and Peter Frampton and Will Dafoe were the nicest people that we ever had. And I'll tell you, I think I told the story on the commentary. But when
we recorded Jeff Goldbloom, we were doing that. We were on the Fox lot, but Jim Brooks's company, Gracie Films, is on the Sony Law So a lot of times we record guest stars there just because they had more recording studios. And so we were recording Jeff Goldblum, and it's his little studio and they are like probably like five other Simpsons people there, and Jeff Goldbloom came in and he went to every single person in the room and sat with them and talked to them for like
five minutes and said like, Hi, I'm Jeff. Who are you? Tell me about you? And he was just like really insanely yeah, Like you felt like wow, Jeff Goldblum was talking to me. And then he was like, Oh, I'm doing this movie about an alien invasion. It's called an Independence Day and stuff like that. But he was just so friendly, like he made it was our job to make the actors feel comfortable, but he went around making everybody else feel comfortable, and so it's just like a
lovely time. So I think we felt bad, but we knew we didn't feel. It wasn't hard for us to ask him to do it again, just because he was so nice and amenable to everything.
It does my heart good to hear that Goldbloom is actually a bit of a Manchel though, But yeah, he said that he's really the only man who could give Phil Hartman a run for his Smami money.
Yeah, yeah, he was a He was a really good choice for that agent. I don't think we had any other choices.
How often did you write guest appearances or characters with a special guest in mind? Or did you write them and then go, let's just get this guy because he'd fit that character.
That's yeah. For MacArthur Parker, I think I think you first came up with the character and then like Jeff Goldwum would be great. But other character there are things like obviously like Rodney Dangerfield, that whole episode was written under the pretense that it's going to be Rodney Dainshefield and if we don't get him, we can't do the episode. And but but usually it was we there was a side character, and we were like, first we kind of go down the list of like can you know, can
Hank or Harry do this? Or or Dan and and some but we could tell when it was like a special role like Lisa versus Malibu Stacy, we knew we had to get some really great guest star.
Yeah. Well, I just think in particular it's just Macathla Parker. This is fantastic. But there's one part here where he does do the Goblain esque dialogue where he goes and your and the wife, and just the way he says it that that's Goblin right there, right, Betsy.
He's another personect Phil Harp, who will give spins to a line that you could never predict, but are so delightfully gold bloomby that you like, you know, you like him.
But it's not even like a spin that Hartman puts on things. Sometimes it's just the way he like, it's just the way he says that. So I particularly love the way when he says so. Obviously the script must have say, McClure puts on glasses to read Salma's name, so he goes miss Bouvier the way. That's the way you can always imagine, you can visualize he's putting on glasses as he's saying that line. It's it's incredible.
Yeah, yeah, for him, it's like sometimes you want to put stage stage directions that says, you know, would say like smart me or nervous or whatever, But with Phil you kind of you didn't need to, and he didn't want to give direction because he kind of wanted him to do his own thing.
Yeah.
Well, let's talk about Stop the Planet of the Apes. I want to get off because that is truly iconic and, in my opinion, could be a genuine Broadway musical. It's a shame that we're never going to get that as a result of Phil Hartmon Nolonger being with us. But take us back to how did that all come together? Because I think in the commentary, Bill says, I went to the bathroom and came back and it was already done or something like that.
So that's basically it's like Bill Bill had as I said, like we had to split duties because it was so never ending amount of work, and so he was off doing something and I was like we would read. Usually a lot of times you'd have two rooms going and I'd run one and he'd run the other. But this day he had he had to go record somebody or edit something, and so I was running the room. And we knew Troy, we wanted Troy to be in a musical or something. We knew it had to be some
sort of special show within the show. But that was it. And then it was I remember as Steve Hopkins, he said, what if we did planet a the Apes a musical? And there was a big pause where you couldn't tell if people are thinking, either this is really stupid or it's really brilliant. But like I had learned fun like learning from Mike and Alis, like you give something a chance, even if it sounds like the worst idea, dumbest idea in the world, give it at least like twenty minutes.
And I was like, so, like, let's this. This could be really good or could beg insane or both, And so we just started talking about it and the ideas started to come. But there's a key moment, which is when David Cohen pitched a line I hate every apice from Chipen eight to Chimpanzee, which I believe it's not only the funniest Simpsons line ever, it's the funniest line ever uttered by a human. And that was like, that was like, what was so great about the Simpsons room?
And there could be not in this case, but there would be moments like we're trying to think of a funny sign or whatever. It'd be twenty minutes of silence and people in the room just going like this, like deep in thought. But once he pitched that line, it was so inspirational and funny that everybody got to the top of their game and we're pitching funny things left
and right. And so we mapped out and wrote the entire musical in like two to three hours that afternoon, and when Bill came back, I remember or he remembers. People go like you gotta hear this, you got to hear this, or hear this line. And it was like we it was, it was fully formed and it just it just needed the like music, and it was like
different people could chrip. We did different things that in other rooms people would have just shot down, like like George Meyer was like, what if we do these Vodeville bits in between? Like where can I play the piano? Why couldn't before? Which is just that it's the hackiest literally it's an old Vodville style joke. But we're like, what if we work in these little Vaudeville routines in between? Yeah, let's do that. What if we did did the apes
were breakdancing? Yeah, let's do that. Because part of it was also based on those the cheesy musicals of a time, like like Cats and that whatever, that roller skating musical Wash Starlight Express. Yeah, that the super cheesy things. But it was just like it was a combination of like five different insane things that all really work together and people.
That was a case where the room was inspiring each other and it just like that that was a rarity, but when it happened, great things came from it.
I'm so glad you said that, just because I mean, and this is out to dismiss the the expertise and the effort of the Simpsons writing stife, but I mean, there are some gags that feel like you can really see the effort that went into it.
Yeah, And it's like that's the thing is too. I found always in writing that the best things are that things that just come to it, and you can feel when something is labored over, and it's just like, because comedy and jokes are such a weird, subconscious or unconscious reaction to things, like I think it has to it has comes from a deep, weird impulse as opposed to
some like really like laboring over it. And we always found like the things that were written quickest actually are the things that people like the best.
These feel like jugs that always existed that were just sort of you know, floating around in the ether and just gotta just gotta grab. I mean the fact that doctor Zias has the same amount of syllables as Emmadias, so you can just yah.
That was that was my pitch. That was my pitch because we me and Bill and actually our friend Paul from News radio. We were obsessed with that song when it came out, and we're always making jokes and just saying things like thank you Amedeis and stuff like that. So I just kissed that. I think I said thank you doctors A. It's not even to help me, doctor Zayas. But then people were like, yeah, that's perfect for like the main song.
Did you I always keep thinking motions going did I write a full music? When we're saying bits of it, like did you write a full did you write full songs? Or what we saw as what you write?
The whole thing was written out, and at a certain point I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, let's get this and let's get that. And you could it like you said, like they sort of came out of an ether. And there's a theory I have, like it's called like a joke radar. It's all all great, All jokes are out there. You just have to pinpoint
it and find the right thing. And it was this was just a question of fitting the vaudeville routine with the break dancing with doctor Zaais and fitting it all together and and saying this is gonna work, by God, and than it did.
And like him I love legitimate theater. So the fact that it closes out with I love you doctors, it's like, oh, I think I'm saying enough actual musical theater. They sort of closed that with a lot like that.
Yeah, and that was based that one. It's based more on more classic musicals like Oklahoma or whatever, where the two characters are I love you, and it's just like, okay, so let's put that in.
So what you're saying is somewhere out there there's a piece of paper or there's the script that has a full stop plan the fs want to get off script.
Yeah, it's whatever that whatever that rewrite was, it's like, that's it. You could see from whatever the version was before. I don't even remember what was in its place, if it was a musical or what it was, but you would see it jumps from that to the entire musical. I don't know. I don't know that we changed any lines or ever from it. All just fit in a
perfect package. And also I had I had never seen part of a I think to give myself some credit is I had never seen Planet of the Apes, so I only knew the main things, so I wasn't ruined my mind wasn't clouded with the whole movie and Howard gonna parody the whole movie because I only knew I only knew it was Earth all along. I only knew the Statue of Liberty. I only knew Charlton Heston was like a bad, overblown actor, and I knew doctor Sais
and a couple of her names. So I was like, I was happy to like ruin it because I hadn't seen it.
Because my daughter, she's just turned five, but I sometimes put the Simpsons songs on the carline we're listening because on Spotify now, and my daughter always asks Zaia's song zaias song. She loves it, like kids love the music.
It's really it's really happy. You don't have to know about the movie or anything. It's like a really happy, fun song.
Yeah. It's also got my favorite jogs, not necessarily the musical itself, but I mean, I love of so much in this episode. But at the very end, when when Dromicle is sort of giving his very self serving speech and take it bout sugar bait and you're getting something size down in front.
I love that show that. It's also like there's some there's some things that are such good premises that then jokes come to them, like down in Front and all that, And I love legitimate theater. It's just like it's so it's such a meaty premise that you just want to come up with jokes for it.
I will say, that's funny that you said you hadn't say a Planet of the APPEs because I hadn't say it as a kid e though, so you can imagine my disappointment a high Planet of the APPEs and it wasn't this musical.
Yeah, that's what a lot of people say about a lot of Simpsons things as they see the movie parody before they ever saw the movie. And that was similar for me of like my genition in reading Mad magazine, where I know a lot of movies and TV shows from the sixties and seventies first from the Mad parody before I ever saw the actual thing.
Josh, I'm generation X as well, and I mean I sort of wanted to go to that for our gen in terms of we watched a lot of good stuff, but we absorbed a lot of good culture. But because of the I guess limitations that we had in terms of like only three or four TV channels and only so many, only so much stuff that was available. You also were exposed to a lot of bad stuff, and you were able to recognize what was not good. It's like, this could be good if I did this to it,
you know, if I took it. Yeah, think and put a clock in it. So yeah, I mean I think that's Yeah. A lot of what makes your seasons of the Simpsons, and of course other people who worked on the show, what makes it work so well is like you were filtering all of pop culture through your sort of your sensibilities.
Yeah, that's the thing. And you'll see, like in the early Substance, there is a lot more pop culture reference to things in his sixties or fifties that like slightly older writers or you might have like heard of when they were kids.
Well, you see it in Troy mcclau's movies as well. Well. I mean, god knows, I've probably watched things like I'm Gonna Butcher It, but you know the contablist reputation.
Yeah, yeah, that's a very distinct, distinct type of movie like we want to have seen as kids, because there were like adult movies in the sixties, but all those like crazy names, like crazy Name musicals and movies was a type of genre in the sixties.
I love that that's his passion project.
Yeah, it's really sad.
But when we go into into his house and there's posters on the wall, those three like I think it's one's assault on Gemini three is one of them?
Yeah, Astro Astro something Gemini three.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't realize that there's a game that came out in the nineties. No, it's called Virtual Springfield, and Troy McClure is the host of that game. And if you go into the game, those films actually got redesigned posters that are in that game. I was wondering whether you have actually ever seen them.
No, I never, I don't. I don't think I ever saw Virtual Simpsons.
I know, yeah, Virtual Spirit It's actually it still works on Windows ten. I still play it on my laptopic essially my kid Like basically just you're just walking your inn Springfield. And I think it's great that Traum mcclauw is the host, because of course he is. He hosted everything in the Simpsons universe. But getting that again from Phil just prior to what happened is just it's it's really it's kind of emotional.
Yeah, that's nice.
Yes, But look going back to this episode though, so what what was it about this one that you loved the most. Was it just the fact that you got to work so much with Phil in particular, just on this episode in particular, I.
Think it was it was that, But it's also like, we really it's the perfect example of exploring a side character to side characters lives that like you could not have done in season three or four when we're still like getting to know the family and you just it was so it's such a perfect expiration of a and it's also like the jokes are so good, and it's also like a really nicely emotional story. It's just like I like it because it works on all all those levels.
Was there original concern about maybe retreading the same story with Selma because she'd already had so many previous husbands.
No, that was more just like a running joke. So it's like, of course it's Selma because she's always going to have like another husband that doesn't work out.
And it was nice that you did play on the story that was sort of implemented with I think it was Salma's choice where she gets jubjub. Obviously you still continued on jubjub, but also just shares this design not just for love, but to have a baby, but to have a baby for the right reasons as well. Yeah, I just want to be a mum.
Yeah, I remember that was that was discussed in the Story Retreat with Jim Brooks. It's like that that it was really important to him and to everybody that that be a Really, when you're talking about having a kid and for these for these not right purposes, it's like, that's a let's be really real about it.
I want to hear about these retreats. You hear so much about them. How you guys all went away and you just sort of did you put your name in a hat and you picked that ideas or something? Or is it just people pitching idea?
Yes, well it was like I think I think the original genesis of have any Story Retreats is like Jim Brooks, especially then, was always so busy making great movies that we couldn't We needed to trap him in a room and get all the ideas out of his head in like two days because we weren't going to see him
for a while. So like that was like I think, like the main reason is like we and we did like like I know, like some shows like had story retreats like in Hawaii and like all in luxurious circumstances, and we our story retreats were at the hotel right next to the Fox Lot, and in fact we could look out the balcony and see the Simpsons offices.
I'm envisioning a forest cabin somewhere.
No, it was like the Hyatt or whatever. I don't the building still exists, It's not a hotel now.
It was the tension. It was the tension.
It wasn't just an inspiriting anonymous three style hotel.
Yea literally just overlock looked the Fox Lot and you're just like locked in the room all day. Like they're bringing like a nice lunch and stuff. But it's also like it's an exciting kind of thrilling also very nerve wrecking time, because like you're you're not just pitching two people you know and and to Matt, but you're pitching to Jim Brooks, who's this brilliant not just sitcom but
this brilliant entertainment comedy god. And you want him to like the idea but you also really want his take on it, because we we would often say, like Jim's Jim's gonna find the right emotional hook for this Marge story or whatever. It's like we have the makings of it, but we don't quite have it. I bet Jim will
crack it. And and he was just he and he was really crucial in this life, not just for coming up with the fish idea, but with like those emotional cruxes and emotional points of like when Selma finds out that it's a sham marriage and when they're discussing how having a kid like that was really the moments where you really watch in Brooks, but those story retreats where it was also like Bill and I were really anal obsessed with people, so we'd always work out our pitches
ahead of time and practice them, and so we got to learn to really like pitching and enjoy it, which is then's something that we took from The Simpsons, because like, now I like, I like going in a room and pitching something. I'll still be like horribly nervous beforehand, but when I'm pitching it, I like, I know I got it,
I know it got mapped out. So like every writer would come with like two or three episode ideas and then like for example, Bill and I would always have the basic story beats worked out, and other other writers, like I remember Scully was always really good at at pitching and having stories and having really emotionally grounded stories.
But then you pitch them to the room and then you get everybody kind of looks to Jim to see if he likes it, and then if he likes it, and Matt likes it, and when Sam was there, it was they were the big three. But if they like it, then you talk about it more and you kind of
then you actually do a lot more. You spend maybe like half an hour on the stories, flashing it out, and then you'll go and then they always had a gong in the room, and it's like when we're done, ready, this story is ready, it's cooked, you know, you bang the gong and you move on to the next pitch.
Can you call the first time you pitched something and how you're feeling. Were you nervous? But just to splad it out there, Look, what was the first thing you pitched in? That writer?
Just just suck. My wife just walked in. I gotta tell her I'm doing this just a.
Second, Josh before you begin. Sorry, this might be an opportunity time to ask, is it purely coincidence that your wife's name is Lisa Simmons.
In fact, that was an amazing thing early on because like I asked Matt to do a birthday drawing for her and the because herd it's one letter away from Lisa Simpson. So we still have that drugs Happy Briefletely Simmons.
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slash four figure discount. But I was just asking, can you recall the first thing that you ever pitch and we're you nervous to pitch it? What was it?
Yeah? I have a document and I remember there's I don't remember what the first things we pitched and there were a couple like we pitched a story of the kidnapping of Montgomery Burns. I think that was one of the things, and then elements of that we went into who Sharp mister Burns? But like that didn't like that episode was not approved, but there'd be. There are a number of episodes that we might have like pitched, and
then we're able to use elements in later stories. But I don't I don't remember what the first couple of episodes we pitched were, and I or horror how they went. And I'm sure we're incredibly nervous, and it wasn't. It wasn't until a couple of seasons in that we felt confident.
And that's the same in the room is It took a good, good couple of months when we were first in a room to feel confident to like really pitch jokes and it's I remember, I don't remember the joke, but I remember I pitched a joke and Sam Simon laughed, and from that moment on, I was like, Okay, I'm I'm not going to get fired. I got this.
How good were they explaining to you why they were going to turn down an idea you had?
They were really good. That's the thing. That's so unusual about like it's like Mike and Al and everybody who who I know it was Scully and everybody else and Matt Salmon and David Murkin. Is if they didn't like an idea, they would explain it in a really nice way as opposed to go that sucks or that would never work. They'd be like, I think that might not work because of so and so or whatever, or or they might go like that's good, but let's keep let's keep thinking.
Did it make you a better roger As a result getting that kind of feedback, it's like, okay, this, but this doesn't And.
Also knowing you didn't have to be there's no fear of pitching something because you know your right.
And that's another rule is that we always that we learned from those guys older people, and that we always enacted as like there's no bad pitch because some of that, as you see with like planet a f apes, there's like even something that sounds like the dumbest idea could lead to something great. So you've always got to like give you it's it's your job running the room to know whether you're going to give an idea a chance. But you should never you just have a feeling about it.
And there's a lot of things like might explore ideas that go nowhere, but at least we explore.
Them exactly well. We usually do a big run through the episode. I feel I've had you long enough now. I feel we want to just pick out some key moments in the episode and just sort of dove into
them because it's just passing interesting discussion. Yeah, so basically this one here you touch on the Muppets a couple of times, and it's one of my favorite moments from the episode is when he's taking somewhe to a special screening of his latest film, and it's just the Muppets go medieval from the opening scene there from nineteen seventy seven. They're the only ones there at the flea market driving which has been demolished the following day, which I think
is just great. I'm a huge Muppets fan, right, I love the Muppets. It feels like you were just taking the mickey out of the Muppets here. So were you guys just not the Muppets fans or.
Yes, here's the truth about that, because like I'm you're younger, so you're you're like the Muppets generation. I'm I'm the Sesame Street generation. So I like a certain type of Jim Hansen puppets, like I love like Sesame Street was the formative thing to me it growing up in the seventies, and they had a lot of great animation, but also puppet puppets. But I found the Muppets to be really corny, and I still watched it. I still liked it, but
it's just like really really corny. So like that was like, so yeah, we were taking the mickey out of it. Not the world's biggest Muppet fan, though I love I love Jim Henson puppets, just not the Muppets.
By the way, I've got to take issue with something here. I mean, first of all, we see the family watching the Muppets go Medieval on movie for a rained at ball game on TV. Yet later it's got a theatrical release. What's all that about?
I don't know. I certainly I got fired for that blood I.
Was exactly the same thing of I'm not going to acquire this to Josh.
I don't There's a lot of stuff like that. Did it? Like people are like, what about this is? Like we did it never crossed our mind, and that never kind of crossed my mind for twenty five years.
The Simpsons predicted so many things. You wils have predicted the shrinking of the theatrical window.
Yeah, that we did.
How often do you quote the Simpsons in your day to day life still to this day?
Oh, all the time, every day, And in fact, we would quote before episodes ever aired. There are lines that we would quote around the office. So we're the original Simpsons quoters because there's certain lines that we love so much we would just repeat in the office or that would come up before episodes. So so like like all the time. Yeah, and I have to think of them. They're they're very just like a lot of Simpsons stuff, they're they're pretty obscure, but we really for whatever reason.
But then they're also and I have to think if I can actually tell you one of them. There are certain lines that we loved and never thought that other people would like and then have ended up that. It's a delightful surprise when we learned, like, oh my god, other people out there in the world they love that line too, and they're quoting that line too. I don't have a particular example, but there have been many.
Well, the big one now for the main culture is Stained Hams. Could you have any idea that Stained Hams is going to become a thing? I mean, Bills now a living from it with these.
Days you do. And that's the thing, the rare thing. It's very rare that anything goes in verbatim from a writer like people. There's like very few sybstance writers like John Vitty or David Cohen who were so good at it like that they had. It's like if you got sixty percent of your first draft into the final episode, that's amazing. And that's the reserve for people like David
Cohen and John Vetdy or Sportswelder. But so it's very rare because it's also, as you've got the feel from talking about it, it's very much a room written show. So anything, anything is going to be rewritten and made better. But for twenty two two Birthdays, it really was people took the characters that they really love and Bill and I but Bill obviously especially love Skinner and Chalmers, and we were and that was that episode. Myself and Greg
Daniels were actually in charge of cobpling it together. Like Bill, we would split up episodes, Bill and I and so like, you're in charge of this this half of episodes, and I'm in charge of these half and but we'd like, you know, we would switch off to whatever so it gets the balance. But we're overseeing twenty two short films. And Bill wrote fist. I think he just wrote it like in a night, and it was so perfect to me.
I think I cut out one couplet because it was long, Like I just caught out this couplet and I'm just going in because like Bill and I are like, we're in charge, this is this is perfect. We're not. It doesn't need to be rewritten. It's going in And that was it. Wow, And so it was really was I think it's it's entirely Bill one hundred percent. So he's he's a title to make a living from it. Yeah, and he had like he said, I'm sure he said it.
We had no idea for like twenty years and then it just suddenly took off, I guess from Australia where they some supermarket was advertising steamed hams.
Yeah.
Well what happened was was Simpsons fandom is huge in Australia. It's just all and we're wondering why they never came back, you know, because we've got that one episodes, like come back and do another episode because it's huge here. But you know, we have stores like supermarkets that you can design your own signs, so the workers will draw a
owne signs. Now, there was like Hamburgs and they went steamed hams Now on special as a joke because the worker was obviously a Simpsons fan, and someone took a photo of that send it to us. We shared it on our page and boom it exploded. And then now there's a store called JB. High Fire, which is kind of like the equivalent of what in the States. I know, they sell TV and things like the movies, like Tower Records if Tower Records still exists, that kind of thing.
But they have a thing where it's now just they have a competition who can make the best Simpsons sign at their store. So it's just Simpsons culture is just so big in Australia.
That's well, so you guys are part to thank for that.
So Bill, where's that residual's?
Bill? Yeah, that's I think that's what Bill's like, where's my residuals? For coming up with? Though he has he has trademarked that phrase, Steve pamsh he owns it, wisely owns the tradewark.
It seemed like a clever businessman that Bill likely.
Yeah, he's got he has. He always had a good business head.
So yeah, yeah, exactly. Now there's a few other things in this episode. Fish called someone wanted to touch on.
Now.
I'm not sure whether you even realized because we mentioned it before. So the iconic sleept with the Fish's line, which is now incredibly dirty. As a kid, you have no idea what's going on, but you know, it's just it's it's a great, great gag. That is the only time that fat Tony was not voiced by Joe montagna in the history of The Simpsons. Do you know who voiced him in that scene? No, it was Phil Hartman.
It was Phil. Really, Wow, I don't I don't really, I don't remember that. And I just saw I just saw the episode today and I was like, oh, and I assumed that was Joe Montagnan. Obviously we must have not been we must, do you know? Do you know the story behind it?
I don't know the story. I'm I'm assuming because you're mentioning earlier how it was one of those oh, we're going to get this line in.
Yeah, I think. I think because because Joe Montagna was really hard, like he's a big movie actor and was always who knows where in the world he was doing a movie, so we must not have been able to get him, and a lot of times to record, we'd have whatever actors are around, oh can you just tempt this line? So he we must have had him tempt it, and then we didn't get Joe Montaigne. But I honestly do not know if that is was intentional or we just forgot that it wasn't him, and then that's hilarious.
I really I don't. That's something I don't remember.
But the thing is, you listen to it and you don't realize it. If you don't, if you don't know, you don't know. But if you once you know, you listen to it and you're go, oh, yeah, it is slightly different, but it's close enough.
Yeah, there's I mean, there's a few times where we cheated voices or even like took it from a previous episode. And there there's a few times like I put, I put, I did a few things that stayed in really look what like, you know, and there are weird things that the actors couldn't do and we asked them to do or the sound people like that one. This is so oblique, but in the summer four foot two, you know, if there's a millhouse sees a sand crab, and we wanted
a really specific sound for the sand crab. And the sound guy, Travis Powers, who's like the most brilliant sound guy ever, just couldn't do it. And I was like, no, it's something like like that, and so they and they were like, well, why don't you just do it?
And so I did it.
And oh, but a weird, a weird one that you'd think of her actors could do is we wanted to Curly in in in the I'm Just a Bill parody, you know.
You know, the A Amendment to be Yeah, and at the very end, which was very pression, where they're storming the Capitol, he says like doors open, boys or whatever, and all these crazy bills run in and there's one that runs in and goes who woo woop like Curly.
But we couldn't get None of the actors who are brilliant could do it. So I just and we were on the sound stage mixing it and I'm so and Matt was like, why don't you just do it? And there's other thing. There's other things too, Like I remember on sound stage that was like, or Matt just did.
It because Matt Gridon did it.
Yeah, so he did. There. He did not that, but he did. There's other like sounds or people in crowds or whatever that we just didn't have and we had to mix and turn in the episode that night. So we're like, just one of us go down to the microphone on the soundstage and make duvis sound or say this word or whatever and it will go in.
Didn't he didn't he do Maggie's Pacify?
Yeah, he did. That was another thing that I think they couldn't They couldn't get right. But Matt did it us straight. So that's yeah, that's always Matt.
Very brief side, but the old the original Running Man movie with Arnld Schwarzenegger. I was reading some oral history of it and apparently they couldn't get Arnold back to do some adr. So in the completed movie there's like three different people doing Arnold impersonation.
Wow. I didn't know that, but yeah, there are. There are some times where like we couldn't we couldn't get the actor, and so it was it was somehow cheated, not often, but happened.
One thing I like about the episode is how it feels kind of inside baseball when it comes to showbiz and showbiz scandals, but it's not really sort of overplaying its hand. That feels kind of like a Jim Brook's influence in a lot of ways. I mean, where your name checking people like this isn't necessarily shows, but yeah, JFK and Bing Crosby, it's like, oh, they've got scandals in their past, or even the whole thing with Troy McClure and his sort of his secret sexual fetishes or whatever.
Yeah, I think everybody. I think everybody was kind of happy to be able to do that because like we're, especially on The Simpsons, it's like a real outlier show and staff, and it's like and we're not like we're not hanging out with celebrities in restaurants and stuff, and it's like we barely know anyone who's even remotely famous, and so it's like us kind of like glimpsing Hollywood from from being there, but not really participating in it.
Yeah, So were you really did you really feel shut off from the world when you.
Were We Yes, in a very good but weird way, Like we were not We were not at all weird. That were kids like you growing up that it might really influence. It was a big show, so we knew there was a big audience out there, but we were so sheltered, and like I said, the internet was so nascent and also so sour. The people who were weighing in the show were so angry about it that we stopped,
we stopped looking at that. So we really were sheltered and we were just like and also because Fox couldn't give notes, we were just like, let's just do what makes us laugh and makes our friends laugh. And so that was that was a treasure that you don't realize.
You have to you leave the show and go into the real world of Hollywood, where you got to take notes and you have to learn how to you have to be a good note taker and learn how to interpret them and all this other stuff, and you've got to deal with actors who have their own feelings about stuff and everything like that. Whereas an Assimpsons, it was just this team that was very happy to work together and get things from each other, and that was it's lightning in a bottle.
You said you were burnt out when you finished on the sentence, But at any point post that when you left, did you regret leaving?
Yeah, I do, to be honest, because like we thought it would be over in ten years. And it was also when we left, it was the height the TV was going super strong, and it was just like you could go out and probably get your own show and and and so like we and that was the it was the very tail end of that. It was like the late eighties through the late nineties was the height of what being a TV writer was was like a golden thing. But after very very soon after that, it
didn't and it became harder and harder. And like we Bill and I would have to do and we'd love being able to do our own thing and like doing like Mission Hill and all these other shows are like being able to work on Gravity Falls was like a real treat that I would have never been able to do had I had I not left, And so like I feel like that is my career is rich for that, But I still like if I had known the show
would keep going. I think I probably would have just stayed because it was so fun to do, and I might have become all old and bitter. I don't know, but but it yeah, I do, just just oftentimes when I'm like, oh, I miss I missed doing that show because it was such a treat.
Would you go back?
Yeah? Probably because I feel like I've been away long enough that I would. I could be fresh, I could be fresh enough. And it's also like I miss I miss writing those characters and the freedom of telling any story and joke we want to. Even though like there's shows that I've worked on, like Gravity Falls or the show I did this, I did a kid's puppet show for the BBC that I was delightful and I.
Loved, not the Muppets, not the Muppets.
It was not it was puppets but not muppets, very different. But yeah, I missed the freedom and the feeling of having this whole world to work with. So that was because I feel like when we started on show, it's like we were handed this incredible toy, video game type thing world where it's just so there's so much potential in it. It felt, you know, and less that we thought it would add after ten seasons.
Well, the way that comedy and just the world has changed since then, though, in the last twenty five years, do you think your approach to the gags and the way you write Simpsons would have to change?
No, because I think, thankfully what happened is the approach that we were taught by the older people, and then that we went forth and people like greg Or David Cohen went forth on their own shows, and so that's the Simpsons way of doing things is much more or for example of gravity Falls. At Alex Hirsch, who created gravity Falls, was a kid during our Simpsons and grew
up being really inspired and influenced by it. So what I find is like, if I go on another show, it's much more like working on the Simpsons than the shows that were before the Simpsons. So I feel like the comedy writing world has gotten better because of shows like that and South Park and Seinfeld, like that's gotten better, But what's gotten a lot worse is the opportunities for
comedy writers. Because it used to be like our showed Simpsons, if you worked hard and did a good job, you're on it for life, and shows would last for could go for ten seasons, but now shows will just go for three seasons and they'll only employ writers for part of that, and so it's harder and harder, especially for you young people starting out. To me, I feel like we got in, we were lucky to get in when we did because we were able to make careers of it.
It's much harder these days to make a career, and like, younger writers have to have multiple writing jobs or even other outside jobs to support themselves, which.
I find interesting because I feel like there's more content out there than ever. Yeah, but the problem is just the approachures that the Apressure have they hire the riders is different.
It is. And it's also like there was a bubble that you could just see about to burst where they're too there were just too many shows and that's and that's like that was kind of a big factor because like ten years ago when like and Netflix was kind of just booming and they would buy tons of shows and they're like, I think they're like five hundred, four hundred and five hundred shows on the air, and like when we were starting out there maybe fifty, and it just was too many and it was it was bound
to burst, and it did, and also, yeah, the way budgets became tighter and tighter too, so employing writers for the full run of show, which is really important because that's how writers like us learned how to do things. Is like we like apprenticed under the older writers and producers and you learn to do or if you learn how to direct actors, you learn how to edit and all this sort of thing that writers now don't get to do because they're not given a chance. And that's that's a shame.
Yeah, you're getting a lot of content, but you're building a lot of houses, but they might out of balsa wood essentially.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and they and they're torn down after a certain number of seasons where the companies then it's going to be to we don't want to pay residuals or whatever. And it's just like it's it's much it's much tougher now.
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slash four finger discount. We call back to write for the Simpsons movie kind of A few of the visual writers were called back. No, you weren't okay.
No, I know, and I don't know. I don't know mine.
Yeah, because I was Bill. I guess I guess Bill wasn't either then.
But but we also, like we we left, we like lots of like we were really young, and we like we let like some people were small, like when they left the Simpsons and there still had kept their hand in it and consult but we were like we're full of We're like little house and full of beans and ready ready to go out in the world and do our own thing. So we kind of just just went out cold.
So we offered opportunities to come back and just work on certain episodes or whatnot, and turned it down. Or you just once you left clean slate were done. We didn't even get acknowledged anymore, were contacted.
Yeah, it's kind of in between because then like we worked and I worked on the Futurama.
Yeah, and then you went disenchantment as well in recent years.
Yeah. Yeah, so like we're all like friends with everybody. It's just I think like we we were like really full of beans and very young, whereas like older people like Skully who had been around the business kind of knew like it's it's tough out there.
We recently reviewed the Treots of Horror, the latest one, which it was it was all right, But what were your thoughts on the Trios of Horror episodes? Were they fun to write or were you not really much of a horror fan?
Yes, because now they were. They provided a big dose variety of what you could do because they couldn't in a in a regular episode. You can't you can't have characters die in a funny way. You can't do you can't do aliens, you can't do supernatural because the Simpsons is an extremely realistic world. So the Halloween episodes where our chants to both do that do stuff that we couldn't do, but also ventin you get to parody great
sci fi or horror movies. So it was always like a treat to be able to do those.
I always say on the podcast, how many of my generation we don't call the Shining, The Shining. We call it the Shinning because that was our first introduction to that movie. Yeah, there were so many films and TV shows, just pop culture icons in general that as we got older, we went, oh, it's that person from the Simpsons. H it is that movie from the No, the Simpsons were parenting this. This came first, but we were introduced to it by the Simpsons.
Yeah, fair too. Like da I was saying about Mad Magazine. For our generation, it is like I know, tons of kids were exposed to stuff or exposed to stuff that they still don't know was a reference to a certain movie.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, But anyway, thank you so much again, Josh via time. It's been great to delve into a fish court some Like I said, we should do a full run through, but it's just been so interesting hearing just your time working on the show. And I would love to have you on again just to talk more about it, because, as I said, you were running the show during my favorite ear of the show, and it's just I could eat it all up. You could talk
for hours. I never get tired of hearing your story. So thank you again for your time.
Yeah, well, thank you we're both Bill and I are happy to blab on forever because, as I said, we were fans before, so like we were while we were running the show, we're still obsessed with the show. Yeah, and we'ld talk about it endlessly.
So is that why you would get? Is that why you woul get? Would you get frustrated when you used to read the negative comments online because you're thinking, I'm writing this, I'm a fan like you guys, why aren't you? Did you second guess yourself when you would read those.
Reviews or no? It just made us mad and it also made our heads explode. We're like, these were they were saying worst episode ever, like in season four, which is the greatest ever of any TV show, and it just made us crazy. We're like, how could you even be how could you be so wrongheaded? So but it's also like when you I know that a lot of writers are like that, you would, Oh, you'll read every review until you get to the point that makes something
that enrages you. Where you get to something, you will read any review or all comments until you get to negative comments, and that then drive you.
Crazy doom scrolling.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, because.
You're big on on X on Twitter, and you're in the every day and I just love you give so many insights. One thing you mentioned recently, just before you go a couple of things on the touch on you know, somewhere you have the audio tape of Albert Brooks as Hank Scorpio improving with Dan. You've got to find that tape.
I don't know it's somewhere. It's like it's probably in my garage, and my garage is full of spiders and and and stuff, but it's like, I know it somewhere. Because they gave us that. That whole episode is cobbled to other from basically like three hours of improv between Dan and Albert Brooks, and like we had to put it all together because Albert Brooks is crazily brilliant and we'll just go off on these tangents, and Dan is
so good at ad libbing. He kept like the homewer's reactions in the episode are just Dan's reactions to Albert Brooks's saying something and so, but we had to like, really, when we wrote that episode, we knew that Albert Brooks is a crazy ad liber and we're like, we know he's going to come up with something better for this, but we had to we got there. We get They gave us the tape of that full record so we could listen to it and go like, let's use this
bit and let's use that bit. So and I know, so I know it's somewhere because I I don't throw anything away, but I don't know where.
Let's rescue it from the spider cob webs immediately, Dan and I will.
Overcome our fear of spiders to come to your house and rummage to your garage to find it.
Yeah, and that's that's why I'm not disclosing my address, because I don't want people going for my garage. But also but also I remember, I think this is a long time ago. Like we asked the editor at the Simpsons, like do you have these? And they erased a lot of the tapes, so it doesn't it. It may only exist on this cassette tape.
It's a piece of history. You need to this type.
Because you can make it. I've always said you can make you can make the next Simpsons movie out of that.
How much I'm just picturing your garage like the like the way it hasn't the in the writers of the lost doc. Oh, here's the full script for stop the plan of the ex I want to get on. Here's this type of Albert Brooks ripping.
That's what I did find. Like I did find stuff like I went this is like a year ago. I went for and it's like, hey, here's the notes that Conan wrote to us and and stuff like that, Like I found or I found the letter that Jim Brooks sent to the network when they tried to send so that Laurence Tierney line about putting a.
Hose.
Yeahs, and Jim Brooks wrote a really eloquent, great cutting letter to Fox of like how dear you censor this great line and stuff? And I've that that letters somewhere in my garage and stuff.
So when he said Fox, so they weren't allowed to interfere, but were they, they say, still attempted to what's what's the gun?
Well, they were allowed to. They could not give us notes, but they still had a censor who like so they they they we would get notes and I have this is a great thing, but I can't I can't ever show it because it's not it would be breaking my legal agreement. But like NDA, yeah, to to ever show these notes and they're great, they're really delightful where it's like Bart can Bart must not expose his but but can only do it for three seconds or just like
a lot of stuff like stuff like that. So so they were allowed to buy stand and practices to give us notes like that, but we usually either that scene would be cut or we'd find some way around it by like we did. We did have to take those notes, but we could often argue for them or say, if we do, we're gonna do these three notes, but can we do this and this? And the person who were
the censor usually was like very reasonable about it. And also the Simpsons have this great lawyer who was at Fox who would always like support us because he really liked the show. So we have like when normally, like lawyers might get all concerned about making fun of somebody or something and our lawyer was like, it's funny, go ahead. So so normally but we did, so we did. We got away of a lot, but we did have to
take those standards in practices notes. But you know, you know the story of Homer's phobia.
Right, we're probably do but tell me again.
But that we there's a sensor who was particularly annoying. And from the beginning of when you have to like you still have to like submit the story. When you after story conference and you know the showrunner or showrunners figure out what episode you're gonna do that season, you like submit a synopsis of those episodes to Fox also for their publicity so they can know what's coming. And and from the beginning they said, the censor said, this
episode is not acceptable. You can't do that, you can't do the subject. And we're like, this is a really realistic.
It's a positive episode, even handed love.
And yeah, it's super positive, very good, very sensitive and funny and episode, and we're gonna do it. And we but we constantly after every draft, we normally get uh sensor notes and they might have like five or six things, and and half of them are like reasonable and the other half of you can like we'll ignore, we'll end up cutting or whatever. But for Homostopia, we got pages and pages and pages of notes saying you can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do this, you can't
say this, blah blah blah. And we were just like and and and and but people like like Matt and I think Jim two were just very supportive and and said, no, we can do this episode. So we just ignored those notes. And then what happened is and the notes at the end said this episode is unacceptable for broadcast. And then what ended up is that that sensor left Fox and the next sensor. The next set of notes we got
on it was this episode is acceptable for broadcasts. So it's like whatever that so so we out we kind of outlived because every episode takes like a year to make we outlive the censor on that.
Did you have that in mind when you were writing episodes, going these references here and make sure they're not too topical now because they're going to be outdated because a lot of the later episodes that we review, by the time it aired, some of the reference would have been so out of date. But say with the early same sense, it was a lot of timeless references in the early season.
Yeah, and that's a that's another thing that we were told by like Mike and al on Our in our first week is don't do it or the other writers too that don't do topical references because this episode's not gonna air for ten months, so it's already going to
be out of date. So that's why it is like and very rarely, like the in the Halloween episode where we had Clinton and Dole who were running for president, like that was like everybody knows them, so it's gonna be okay even though it we'll be out of the election world past. But usually, Yeah, we just wanted to stayed away from it because of that. And it's also like South Park was so good at that and they had such a shorter lead time. It's like let that
they'd let they're the masters of the topical references. We'll do the more, we'll do the really out of date, obscure references.
You'll play the long game.
Yeah, well your thoughts because you were running the Simpsons? Were you running the Simpsons when South Park kicked off? They kicked off ninety seven? When did you leave?
We I think we left like ninety eight and were kind of pseudo involved. Maybe in ninety nine.
I was gonna say, what was the vibelot with South Pok coming on?
You know, South Park? We were there. It was like I think it was our very early years where we were just writers, like it was under I believe it was with Mike and now so I think it was, and maybe it was with Murkid. For seasons four or five, a tape of the south Park pilot circulated. Yeah, and we saw in the office and we're like, whoa, this is great. It's like this is going to be a new show. And people are like, yeah, this is a new show. So we saw that tape of people people
always liked South Park in the offices. I think I think people saw didn't like Family Guy when it first came on, But I think Family Guy is such a different thing, and it's so good at just being a joke machine. Like I like it for that, but I remember at the time it's like, oh, a Family Guys just a Simpsons rip off.
Well, I always can. I use it on the podcast a few times. I always compare Family on the Simpsons too, saying Family Guy is like takeout where Simpsons is a Sunday roast meal with a family.
Yeah, that's a good analogy.
It's good in short doses, but you get tired of it real quick. That's how I approach anyway. I'm like, yeah, I get this, it's just but it's just joke, joke, joke, joke, without any real emotion.
For a lot of the time empty calories. Satisfying, but empty calories.
But that's how I feel like that. It's similar to like like after leaving The Simpsons, I couldn't watch the show for a while, And it's the same with Family Guy or any animated show. I just didn't watch for a while because I was just like, I know, I'm seeing too much behind the scenes and I'm not just enjoying it.
Oh, you mentioned you did regret leaving show. How long after leaving did you start to realize, Oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that.
That's it probably took like a few years of like being in the real world where it's so much more difficult to get something on the air, even though it's thrilling when you do.
Because he had struggles with Mission Hill, right.
Yeah, and that was like we were like, this is gonna be the greatest thing, and very quickly realized, oh my god, we're gonna this show's gonna be canceled after a few episodes and and no one is ever going to see it. It was only because of Adult Swim a few years later, not having much to show, so that they showed Mission Hill over and over again and developed this huge fan base, but the show was long dead.
But that was like, that was really heartening, where like meeting people around the country who loved Mission Hill, even though like for us it was a horrible it stopped being it stopped it from being a horrible tragedy to being something that we could fondly remember. And it's like and so like, it's like whenever I've worked on a show I loved, like Futurama or Gravity Falls or Disenchantment, that I don't think about it where I'm like, oh,
I'm happy to be doing this really fun show. But other times I'm like, I miss working on that show because there's nothing like it.
This show is brought to you by the four Finger Discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, tales of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifold, the One about Friends, and so much more. So go ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com
slash four Finger Discount. There's one final episode that I wanted to just mention before we go to one touch on because I wasn't sure whether you worked on it or not. I feel like it may have principle and the Pauper. Yes, how much did you guys have to do with this one? Because this is probably the most divisive episode of all time.
That was one of our episodes.
I thought it was. It was a carryover from season eight. Yeah, so that one that you know that divided the nation when it comes to Simpsons.
Yeah, and we had we had no Honestly, we had no idea because it's all like it's based on a couple of movies, including like the Return of Martin Gear and we thought that we're we're soldiers, somebody coming bits back from a war and pretends they were this guy who they were, and we're just like this is like this is That was our principal Skinner episode where like, let's explore why he's like that. And we had no idea because it's so but I understand why it made
people mad. That's one of the things where I do get it. I do get it where it's so rather than like with Flanders, it explains why he is. But with Principaun and Popper kind of I can see the certain people that it kind of exploded the character and that it I can understand how they feel like it ruined everything that came before a principal Skinner because now you know, he's not really that and he's this guy Garb tams here and I get so I get it.
And like, while I stand by that episode, the trouble that it has caused makes me feel like we probably just shouldn't have done it, but only for that reason, not if I'd stand by like the story and all of that, and it has a lot of good jokes, but I get, I do get what I mean. It's also crazy that a cartoon could enrage people, but that episode certainly did.
But it's more than a cartoon, no, I think, isn't it the same thing?
Yeah?
Well, I mean that's the thing. And as a fan, I can understand that because you get so attached to these characters that if you're suddenly thrown for a loop and go like, what principal Skinner isn't principal Skinner And that's a thing too, Whereas like Ned Flanders was always Ned Flanders, Like when you see him as a kid, that's Ned Flanders, you go, I get it. So I get I get why it made people so bad.
I think people were annoyed because we'd seen in previous episodes he having flashbacks to certain things that were thrown out the window for the logic of this episode, I think, right.
Yeah, it makes you have to it makes you have to reassess everything in a new context.
So yeah, but also I've sort of learned to as time went on. I was used to be a stickler for Cannon, and then you know, as I said about to season twenty one, and we've talked to Matt Salmon, who was very anti Cannon. He's like, who cares about Cannon? Every episode's in its own vacuum. I think just for that first few seasons of The Simpsons, though, canon was kind of important because you felt like you were part
of this universe. It felt like it was real, and if canon doesn't exist, then it doesn't no longer, if it doesn't really feel us real anymore.
Yeah, we were weird in between of that, because like we were really attached to all the characters and also felt we really want to be real, Like the way Jim and Matt and Sam created a show is like always to be real. So like we were big adherents of that, but then the principal Skinner episode kind of does it does kind of break those rules. And while I get I like, like Matt Salmon, I'll get really annoyed at people nippicking things that are ches supposed to
be a good funny cartoon. So like I'm usually you will be on that side. But I also get people being attached to the characters because we weren't too.
I think you have to do a degree of well building to a level that makes emotional sense, if not necessarily logical sense. Yeah, and if you do something that that strips a bit of the way it was sort of they phrase a little bit, that's when people start to get a bit annoyed.
That pushes that episode pushes all those all those bounds. So if I if I had to do that's that's the only there's I will say, and I will I will ever say what the episode. There's a couple episodes that in season eight that I think we were so tired we didn't do as good a job on polishing them as we should have. And there's a couple episodes that I think didn't come out as well as they could have.
And you don't.
No, I don't want to say, because it would it would be insult the writer whose name is on it. And it's more our fault for just like being so tired that we're like, oh my god, we can't like this episode. Is it came to like we liked every episode to be perfect, and those couple of episodes like, they're not perfect and if we had more time and weren't so tired, we would have made them better.
And wasn't your final episode? Was that? Lisa the Simpson the final one?
That?
Yah, that is brilliant with my kids the other day, I loved that episode.
Oh thank you, we want that. That was intentional to be our last episode because we wanted to be a real family episode and like that like kind of it to explain Lisa to herself. So that was the because we liked we liked the like envelope pushing weird episodes, but we also love the emotional episodes the most, So that's why we wanted to go out on that.
Josh, you do good work.
Thank thank you.
But yeah, but as I said, we would love to have you on a game because there's so much more to discuss.
Yeah, I'll talk I'll blab on about any episode, so please.
We haven't even touched on itching Scratchy and Pucci Sho yet.
Maybe that can be for the Oh my god, that's another one I could go on.
When you're in that one.
Yeah, that was. That was a we'll talk about event. That was a real treat to be able to to whatever reasons I think writers like to do itchy scratchy episodes. Was you got to work yourself into into it.
Yes, all right, we'll touch on that one the next the next time we have you on. But thank you so much again, Josh for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure.
All right. Yeah, likewise, thank you, thanks about.
Josh, and.
We are back here without Josh Winstein. Unfortunately he is East leftist. Oh no, he went back to his home plan. He's planet needed him. Fortunately he didn't dine on his way back to his home plan. And he shall be back here on fourthing a discount in coming months.
I would hope. So, I mean, I think that was it was a really good chat. You you'll think it's one of the best we've ever done. I'm inclined to agree.
Yeah, the guys are so afformative and just he just clearly loves the Simpsons, which it just shines through when he when he's talking about it. But it's just as I said, he was in charge of the show during my favorite era, so I was just eating everything he had to say out. But I would love to get he and Bill On to do Bart versus Australia.
Well, if anyone can do it, you can.
You're just you know, make things happen.
It's like the staff of the Simpsons Pokemon and you've got to catch them. We're gonna you like it? Do you like how I folded all those references? And I thought I did pretty well there for an old fucker bad.
You know what works about chatting to like, you know, just want someone and whatnot. What we've been to the table is I'm the fan, but you're also you're sort of a similar age them as well, so you you can, I don't know, you can engage with them on things. References that they're talking about from like the seventies and eighties, and you know what the fuck they're talking about. It's half the time I don't know they're talking about it.
But like there was one part during the interview where you were talking about you want to know about a musical and you're like yes, starlout express and you're like yes, And I was like, that's what you've been to the table as well, you know, just your plethora of knowledge about everything.
It's good that I'm bringing something to the but no, no, you're right. But your your enthusiasm, you know, just really really shines through. And I think these guys respond to that. But also you know, they find themselves willing to not even willing to enthusiastic to share their reminiscences and their recollections about you know, what they've done and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, what it creates is a really good show.
Hope you guys enjoyed it, like and subscribe. But what we're doing now is we're going to be doing our full run through because obviously we went for over an hour and a half with Josh and I was like, it's going to be too long. I felt like I was getting laid. I don't want to keep him anymore. So we will do our run through now of a fish Court, Summer, favorite Moments, trivia, all the fun stuff, all the fun stuff, all the fun stuff. Starting with favorite moments, My favorite.
Favorite, Oh, my god, so many in this and look I probably.
Well probably touched on most of them.
Yeah, we probably did, but you give us a few of yours.
First.
Well, one of my favorite lines that I quote all the time is the movie or the Planet.
I've got that written down here, So yeah, clearly I enjoyed that. Look, anytime Jeff goblins in anything, it's it's pretty good value. As I said to Josh, it's really good casting because he's pretty much the only man who could give Phil Hartman a run for his smamy. Yeah you're saying that, Yeah, So yeah, I think Goldwin just sort of nails pretty much every every line delivery he gives in this.
I think he really shines through with the line I was touching with Josh where he actually sounds like Golden, where he goes you and the waif threate the most of it. He was talking faster because they asked you because everyone else was talking slower.
Yeah, the way that Troy McClure answers the phone, saying team.
M C.
Pick up on that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have to start answering the phone.
G D.
See, I don't know. We alluded to this when we spoke with Josh, but just when at the very start of the episode where the they're watching it.
It's called muggets goo medieval.
Yeah, but what do they call it? Rained out rained owt ballgame theater or something. But home is just you know, talking about something. So to answer your question, I don't know. I've got to start incorporating every day.
So she says, Dad, what's a muppets?
Not what a muppet?
Yeah, So that's what it's like as a parents sometimes. Yeah, kids ask a question, you go, I know, I should know the answer to this, and you try and make sit up, and the more you're making shit up, you go. Look, Alie asked the other day, and I should know this. Why does rain fall from clouds? How does that happen? And I'm going, well, trying to use basic common knowledge. He maybe because the all the I don't.
Know, I want to say condensation.
Yeah, it all builds up into the clouds and it gets too heavy and it all has to come out again. And Nicolas goes because the clouds are sad, and I was like that that will work. Yeah, but you're a big muppet guy, you probably do know this. Why are they called muppets and monsters? And puppets, Monsters and puppets. Yeah, okay, I think I shouldn't. I should know that you're right a little bit of double check, because that's pretty much what I've always thought. Why muppets called muppets it is
the muppet was coined. I'm marrying Nette and puppet and the monsters.
Thanks Google, he would have been going around saying, yeah, next time, you're like, why they got Mauppet's not Papa? He was it because the monster Puppet's son. Then ten years later therapy.
It was like a dead lion. Why I trusted you so marrying it and Pappa? That's why they carried that.
Again.
Sorry, this is a lot of stuff that we alluded to during our chat with Josh, But I mean I really liked the way some came through in this. Yeah. I just liked her sort of like it felt very grown up and mature, just her approach to sort of love and romance and or even just you know, dating. I mean you probably already said that, but yeah, thanks for holding up your into the bargain. I had a pretty good time at the end of the date. It's like, that's a really great line. I don't know, Yeah, but.
It's also the fact that it's like, had a pretty good time.
Great, but also thanks for holding up your into the bargain.
But it's also she was willing to go through with this marriage knowing it was a sham, and once a kid was brought the equation, then she went, I can't do this.
Yeah. I think that's one of my favorite parts of the episode. Yeah, I guess it folds in the favorite moments. But to her saying, you know, it's fine for us, and you know you it really reveals some character depth. It's like depth and kind of like, yeah, look it's a sham, it's fine, but it's a pretty nice set up here, you know.
And jud Job gets his rock in and these are two people who.
If they're not in love, they they kind of seem to like each other or they're compatible. Yeah a lot. So yeah, it's a really deep and thoughtful episode in a lot of ways, and also just being one of the funniest. So yeah, that's that's fantastic.
I also love that that he was taking someone to a special screen of his latest movie and it was the Mother movie from nineteen seventy seven. So not only is it like at this shitty flea market drive in right that no one else is there but them? But that's his latest movie from nineteen seventy seven. It hasn't been a movie since.
Why is it on rained at ballgame Theater but also at the drum? I don't know. I don't know that. I'm sure I have otheravorite moments. And as we do, we sort of doing a run through. Yeah, of course, then more will come up as we go.
But before that though, trivia trivia.
Next question, you there eating the Beast.
My first question for you is I've already spoilt it. I would just say it. What year was The Muppets Go Medieval released?
It wasn't nineteen seventy seven?
Yeah, just said that one. Yeah. Yeah. What is MacArthur Parker's agency called representations?
Right? Yes? Representations? Yes? Yeah, you know you've already sort of alluded to this as well. What is the name of the full name of the drive in that Troy and Sommer.
Oh, I don't know, and it's highway something.
Yeah, it's Route eighteen, flea market and driving.
Yes, there we go. Yeah, And finally for me, who else has was welcome at the Aphrodite Inn? Welcome Troy mccluur of mister and Missus McLure, and it says also, oh damn, it was Share and contest winner.
That's right, Sharing contest with one last question for you. Troy turns down the co starring role McBain What McBain four, Yes, but it's a McBain four Colon Watts.
I don't know.
Fatal discharge.
Fatal discharge, all right, unfortunate that with for somebody. Yeah, yes, all right. So let's get into our run through of a fish Cord Summer, which originally aired March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety six, or top three films at the US box office at this time. Number three, Die a Bleak, You a beleak, you bleek.
I don't know what that is, one that stars Sharon Stone and French goddess Isabelle a Janni and it got like an erotic murder mystery.
Oh okay. And number two is Executive Decision. What a movie?
Oh yeah, yeah, starring Steven Sagre.
Funny thing is I've got a VHS of Executive Decision the other week and it's got to goal on the front cover.
Oh yeah, had to remove him.
Were you annoyed? When when he went then he was killed. No, not at all. I think it's pretty bad. It's a great it's a good twist. Yeah, at his peak when he was actually popular before he went like for karate. Is he karate muster now or something?
I don't know what he's doing.
And number one is oh, speaking of the Simpsons, the bird cage doing his doing his.
Spanished thick uh and in.
This episode was written by Jack Barth and directed by Mark Kirkland guestar and Phil Hartman's Tropic Clure and Fat Tony as we discussed Corey with Josh and Jeff Goblin as MacArthur Parker. The couch gave the Simpsons are five malfunctioning wind up dolls who buzzed their way to the couch. See episode kicks off with the movie for a Rained Out Ball Game and it stars Troy McClure, featuring Tropic cler and the Muppets, and Lisa then asked Homer, what is a muppet? And what is it?
Guy? What is a muppet? It's a marionette par a monsterous puppet. By the way, have you have you seen need to be heard about this? Probably, but apparently Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Stone are collaborating to do a Miss Piggy solo project, Miss Piggy movie. Emma Stone and who Jennifer Lawrence. They're like working behind the scenes to so that they're not going to be in it, or they're going to be in it. No, I think Emmistone might producing. I think Jennif Lawrence might.
Be in it.
The Muppets is one of those franchises, one of those licenses that Disney have just never been able to work out. You know, they were a big success throughout the eighties, nineties, right and seventies as well late seventies, but since Disney took over it, they never seem to know what to do with it.
Did you like the Jason Siegal movie.
I actually really liked that movie. I thought it was great and the kids love it as well. Muppets Most Wanted is a lot of fun as well. But apparently Muppets Most Wanted didn't do too well so which is why they didn't do a third one, which is a shame. But when it comes to like the TV show they tried that Muppets, it was more like the Office kind of style and it was more adult based kind of comedy, and I don't know, I just didn't just didn't work
for me. The Muppets need to be just go back to the classic style of in the Muppet Theater, and I think kids would enjoy that now. I think parents would enjoy watching it with their kids because it feels like there's not much content out there that you can watch that's wholesome for more. Yeah, adult adults and kids can enjoy. But what do you think.
Well, look, I'm not a huge Muppets guy. Certainly, when I was kid on the Muppet Show on TV was like pretty huge. I mean, you know, I was attracting big, big stars to be part of it. I think people recognize Jim Henson's you know, creativity and imagination. Just wanted to be in the sphere of that. So look, it's all a matter of finding the right people to be behind.
Some people who really dig the Muppets and also have It's like we say about the Simpsons, like, oh, you get writers and creative people like I really want to be part of the Simpsons, but they've grown up on the Simpsons. You need to have creative interest outside it, you know, you need to appreciation for what you're working on, but also you need to bring something else to the
table as well. It can't be just like I want to do Muppets like the way I saw Muppets, like I bring something else to it as well, bringing a bigger spark.
This show is brought to you by the Forefinger Discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifould, The One About Friends, and so much more. To go ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com Slash four figure discount. Do white kids really love the Sing Movies?
And I watched this This is just the fucking Muppet Show. There's just people up on stage just doing cover songs.
So they didn't get the people who make the sing movies to do it.
It's just like watching the Muppet Show.
Trying to slap shit together and make it all work. I've never watched the Sing movies, but yeah, so that's what it is. It's like it's on a show and you've got people behind the scenes like let's put it on a show. Ah, the stage is falling over. Oh so and so hasn't shown up, and occasionally someone will get up and sing.
So basically sing is a koala who I believe he owes money or he's wanted to be a big successful like Broadway director, not working out for him, and then he gets a bunch of rag tag you know, rejects of people who ordinary people who have talent but haven't got the maybe the appearance, or haven't just got the the avenue to become stars. And they all put together this show and people gather at the end they're like, oh,
you guys are really talent. You guys are great, and to start singing cover songs of just you know, shake it Off and these other I wanted my Way, and it's like this.
Is literally what the Muppet Show used to be. Cool, Okay, that works. And those thing movies, well how many of they.
Made like two and then making a third one I believe. Yeah.
Yeah, So the clue is an audience, yes, there is, indeed, but there is not an audience apparently for Tromicclure or the Muppets go Medieval. What a well done segue, way on your pat.
I would watch this movie. There were a lot of There were a lot of these movies. It was just the Muppets with so and so. Yeah, the Muppets Take Manhattan. That was a TV I think I was released in film in cinemas, yeah, yeah, But I only ever saw it. My name taped it off TV. So I always saw it as like a TV movie because it doesn't feel like a big budget movie. But because you know, I found out it was later on. But because Frank Cole's
directed that one believe ye, But I saw it. My only knowledge of it moving when I was a kid was Nan tapping off the TV. There's always those commercial breaks throughut and I'm like, oh, this must have been a TV movie then, but no, it's not right.
Muppet Caper, Muppy Christmas, Carol, Upper Treasure Island.
I fell off after My Treasure. I never I never saw it. I never saw it.
Tim carry in.
What am I doing? I look about themuppets.
Though we were now returning to Fish called Selm, We're already in progress.
That Bart thinks that trou mcclauw, who's that guy made a leather and it's actually trauma claw and Marge explains that he was once a teen heart throb in the seventies, which is the first time I've ever mentioned or heard Marge mention that he was like a heart thriber. We've always just seen him as this is, as a washedout, washed up guy. But no, apparently he was a heart
throb back in the day. And Homer brings up, who'd have thought he'd become such a weirdo, And we find out why in just a few moments, and they discussed the weird things he does at the aquarium and Marsha, it's just an over legend. Reminded me of the Jobel. It's a very much the Richard gear story. Yeah, yeah, which is still to this day bizarre. People don't do that kind of thing of fish. March says. It's one of those things where it's like, you know it might
be true, but you'd rather believe it's not. Oh sure, but it just shatters the illusion of this hero that you had, or this heart throat that you had when you're growing up.
Oh look, well, not far from now, not long from now, we're about to record the movie Guy with Marlton Davis. We're going to be talking about the grew of Eddie Murphy. Yeah, roller coaster, and he's got some stuff in his personal life. Yeah, we either sort of memory hole, We're just like, oh, that's bullshit, or or we're just going I choose to
believe that doesn't happen with Jackson. Fans Saxon Jackson, Yeah, don't be ignorat as much, says he's a perfect gentleman, like Bing Crosby or JFK, who were both known for what being legendary pantsman shall we say, Yeah, unfaithful, infidelity, all that kind.
Of stuff exactly, And she wonders what he's doing now, and it cuts to Troy driving his I love this. We forgot to mention this with Josh the Dolorean. Oh yeah, it just it just seems to fit in right back when he was a big star, like late seventies, you know, earlierighties, having a Dolouri would have been the fucking coolest thing in the world, right, Yeah, would you drive a Doloreian? Now you if you had the ability to drive a Doloreian, would you do it?
I would do it once. I would not own a door. I think it's a kin to what I think. It's a kin to owning, say like a cyber truck.
Well, I don't know. I feel like it's one of those things where if you drive a Dolorian around, everyone's gonna be looking at you the entire time. You're never going to get a chance. You can't just part a Dolarey in the Safeway car park.
Here's the thing. We're both from Geelong. Yeah, it's it's a it's a regional city. It's not necessarily a small town, but that there is there at least maybe two or three residents of this place where we leavest this Yeah, who have either a Lamboat or a Ferrari. And it's like, no, you don't drive that here. You can top out at a Porsche. That's a that's as exotic as you get with a sports car. Here, maybe a Maserati because they seem fairly sort of.
Low key, and you're also asking for trouble if your driving.
Ask you park that ship of Dan Murphy's yet, Fuck, you're getting so cy.
And it just looks weird. Ri I mean next to hender XL pretty.
Much out of my way kya.
But love on the back of his dolor and he's got a bumper Stiket says, joined me at the Springfield Aquarium and he's crashing into various cars and he gets put over by Wigham and he opens the door door hits him in the head because they go up obviously, and I'm seeing stars here, No, just one, and he brings up, so we should name all the movies to find the greatest story that ever Hulard and they came to.
Burgle Carnie Hall. That's the one that I read, because I mean, yeah, I agree. From the seventies when and seventies and eighties, but there were millions of movies like this, and they would show them all the time on your three or four TV channels, and you ended up watching them. As I said to you, you're in Josh, I mean, as I said during our interview with Josh. And when we've spoken to other people who create the show who
are sort of more of my vintage. When you grow up and you've got less sort of or you've got exposure to everything, it's like, all this works and this is shit, and I know what to do and what.
Not to do, and everyone was exposed to the same things. Oh yeah, you wouldn't choose Yeah, yeah.
All right, Captain rash rash out of the car. Oh, I'm seeing stars here, No just one.
I am try McClure, you may remember me from such films as the greatest story ever hulaed And they came to Burglar Carnegie.
Ha ah fred N.
I also liked to hear too that it's kind of sad for McClure. He's like, may I remember me from this week? And I was like, A, still, you have to ask for your license and he says he has to wear his glasses as pro's license where this is a crime against nature, and he puts on. He goes he he you look like kind of a nerd. Look, I'll rip up your ticket, but make sure you go do an eye test.
But he still, I'm sure going to have to ask you for a bride.
Out the d m V, Grandpa thinks that Patty and Summer are both March and they say, why do we always get these widows coming to DMV. They go all the Chippendale dances aren't pulling with each other, and Grandpa is annoyed because he wanted his license revoked. I wanted this revote. Then McClure enters and Hibbit surprised he'd be there, and this week get the moment we're discussing where Phil
Hartman actually voices fat Tony. If you watch it now knowing that you go and actually sounds quite different to Joe doing fat Tony.
Hey, I thought you said try McClue was dead. No, what I said was he sleeps with the fishes. You see Coney Please No, I just stayed a whole pleated.
Ding my gul, ding gammago? What is that?
I think I've said in the past My secret shame is that I haven't actually watched the Sopranos really. Yeah, ever, I've seen some episodes of it, but I need to watch it all the way through blue. That's my that's my twenty twenty six project.
It's worth it. Yeah, but they actually I did look it up as actually isn't made up. There's possibly a reference to pasta fazoo.
Yeah, and there's also gabba gul which they talk about on me, which I'm assuming is some kind.
Of dish that something you eat.
What do they call it? What do they call it?
I just dingo dinga magoo, I said, all pleat of dinga magool. Someone can't believe he's there though, but and he isn't wearing his glasses, and he thinks he's really attractive until he puts his glasses on, and he's like oh, and he says you may remember from oh. She remembers him from such films as Mit, Joe Blow and Give My Remains to Broadway. Then he says stars like him, though she starts him that wear glasses, and Patty thinks
he's gross. She thinks this is like, this interaction is gross because Paty's always been not loveless, but she's just affection in every way. But she says, read the top line. It's just the letter eat. You can't read it. Puts his glasses on, and this is I was discussing this with Josh. I love the reading here from Phil where he's like, listen, miss Boovia and takes the glasses bake off again, and he says, you were a payer. If she passes him, you take her for dinner. She passed him.
That took a lot of class. Now at Pimento Grove and the various stars are on the wall, and I like that a lot of the stars are previous guest stars as well. Titoe, Tom Cruse, who didn't actually guest star,
but he's been on The Simpsons. He was in isn't the deleted scene I believe from the Spring the gambling episode because rain Man, right, yeah, And because I had no idea what was going on in that deleted scene, because they showed deleted scenes in one hundred and thirtyeth them so spectacular, and it's just this guy going and I'm like, what the hell is going on? Rain Man? But as a kid, I'm like, what is going on here?
But then Barry White is there, Liz Taylor, Bet Midler, Nimoy, Adam Wes Sting, David Crosby, k Brian, James Woods, and Troy is where on the toilet on the cat door, Well on the cat door, So yes, the cat door of the toilet. I believe of something. Yeah. Then they start some small talk and she's getting repetitive stressed, sort from scratching it but all day. And then she sees the conversation more towards him, and he says has been reading a lot of scripts. It's cheaper than going to
the movie. Every line he says in this episode is a zinger. Oh yeah, I don't think there's a line here where it doesn't end with the punchline, so it's amazing. They leave and she thanks him for holding of his end of the bar. Had a pretty good time at least, he's honest. Looks like it was five.
It's like her expectations are a low.
Yeah, I had a pretty good time. Yeah yeah, yeah. But also we need to acknowledge that through all of his faults, Troy did come through. He said, if I will take you to dinner, if you pass me, he could have easily just walked out forgotten about it, so he took it to dinner. He's insincere, but he's got integrity. Yeah. Yeah.
Then the photographers see him with a woman and it gives him a little he's a little something for page and it cuts to what page ten, and I love the headline here they give for this part of the celebrity gossip. It's Troy a little tenderness, oh yeah yeah. And at the bottom, look he's drug and it's just Rainiew wolf Castle. Then Lenny and Carl see this in the newspaper at the at the power plant and Homa doesn't believe it. No, there's no way he's washed up.
Movie Stough she'd be dating washed up supermodels, and Carl says, oh no, I'd paid the scene in a movie. Now, if only that were possible. Has there been ever been actors who had some sort of controversy and their movie career. Kevin Spacey be a big one, obviously, wouldn't he, And it's just their career just.
Died pretty much. Yeah, there are people they mentioned later in this episode. It's like they mentioned Hugh Grant and Rob Low of course.
Yeah, those sick freaks, those sick freaks, but I mean, but they make comebacks, oh definitely. So their things was just they're being young where.
And Hugh Grant, you know, Hugh Grant was like there was a prostitute, right yeah, getting a BJ from a sex worker and he played it perfectly.
Who among us, right, yeah?
Exactly? Who would say not to know that, Elizabeth Early, I'm going down sunset all of that.
It was a Jay Lender that said, what were you thinking?
It's great? Yeah, that's and That's what I'm about to say. Yeah did he Yeah, played it just right. He sort of not faced the head on, but he did. He weaponized the Hugh Grant charms.
I don't know what it was he.
Didn even say anything, what were you thinking?
You're just like, oh goodness me, what a blunder. So, yeah, Space is probably the one. And even he's sort of made a few, he's made a few very sort of cheap movies in the in the interim.
Well, he tried various sort of not comebacks, but tried to sort of put himself back in the spotlight and they were just terrible. Well he keeps trying it as well, trying as the House of Cards character, and you're like, no, yeah.
Yeah, And he's actually he gave a recent interview where he's saying, yeah, oh look, I'm broken, homeless, living in Airbnb's, at which point someone said to be living in an Nbnb's and not.
Broke, but and you also, what did you do with all of your money?
Yeah, it's apparently really really rich. But he was also saying, I've been talking with people in Hollywood and there are a lot of higher level people who are saying, yeah, look, we want you back in movies. It just and you say, it just takes one. It's just like Monks says, you're Quentin Tarantine to put me in a movie, and then you know Tarantine and tilta. Yeah, oh well he didn't have a controverse, but his career was just waning. Yeah,
pretty much. But I don't know, it just seemed like, come on, guys, help help given space outs Like I don't know, I think we've got people who can do what you do, only better. Okay.
But this next scene here I really liked because it's the theory of McClure's house right as it's for sale by owner and it's a from an iconic movie one of your Men, from Your.
Man, it's from Body Double. Yeah, yeah, I need you love this movie. Oh yeah, yeah, what's what's it called? The movie is called Body Dub.
They know that the house.
Oh it's called I want to say that the chemisphere.
Is that correct? That's correct? Yeah, okay. It's just a great example of references that you know, you look at it and as a kid, you go, that's a weird looking house. But if it seems like it just it feels.
Like a house that McClure would design, like yeah, well, like a movie star would buy. It's like, yeah, I've made it, you know. Yeah, I need the house I live in to sort of reflect my high opinion myself in the opinion that people haven't.
Yeah, has a house from Buddy Double.
Yeah, there are a few houses in LA that I kind of like that. I mean there's that one that's in Tim Allen lives in Galaxy Quiest as well. I don't know if it's the same house, but it's feel similar to similar design.
Yeah, yeah, But Macartha Parker then calls him.
Troy, my man.
It's MacArthur Parker, MacArthur Parker, the agent, MacArthur Parker, my agent.
Just checking in, my friend. So, how's my favorite client. We haven't spoken in eight years. Yes, so I saw the papers today, Troy looking good. That wholesome stuff really helps when I'm trying to find your work.
You haven't found me working twelve years.
Oh you Joy, Judy is work.
And listen, you keep getting seen in public with human females and I can get you work in the entertainment industry.
Hello, Selma Bouvier. It's Troy McLure. You may remember me from such dates as last night's dinner.
And we touched on this with Josh. I love how just the you may remember me has just become part of his everyday vernacular. Absolutely, it's just it's who he is.
Now, Yeah, and you saw that, you know, when someone said I remember you from such films as It's like, oh, okay, well at least two might have you know, they might be lined.
That's true.
Yeah, but now at ugly U G L I. And this is where it kicks off of Troy laughing, you know, uproarsley at an anecdote. Now you tell one.
I can't remember when I've heard a funnier anecdote.
Okay, now you tell one.
Well, not much happens to me, but I once had dinner with a movie star and it was the most wonderful night of my life.
Really, who was it?
Jordan Siegel? I hear he plays the banjo.
Excuse me, I ordered a zema, not emphysema.
Please don't smoke in our restaurant. We don't serve contemporary California cuisine. In your lungs.
Til I'm sorry, I ruined her evening.
I have to gone. My god, I'm such a.
Fool, gotta late. Yeah, I'm just saying I feel really sorry for someone here because you get the impor she gets the impression that he wants to be with her, when really you know, he's only using for your career. But I think as the night goes on and as time goes on, as he said, I think he just grows to actually like having her around as much as he's just using her, and she's you know, she's what's the term beneficial to his career? He still wants somebody around.
Oh yeah, I think it's like initially thinking, look, we've got we've got an agreement here, we've got a good thing going here.
Do you think he's a lonely character.
Oh yeah, I think so.
Yeah, And I think think he enjoys his own company, but also I feel like he just is now enjoyed.
I think he's lonely, but I think he likes having people around a sort of bask in his glory.
Yeah that's true.
Yeah, and remind him that he's try McClure, so he needs someone quite specific.
But as the episode went on, it felt like someone was less busting in his glory. And she's just like, I just like being around you as opposed to oh my god, you're Trum mc clure and it's just oh no, you're just Troy. Well, it's what makes me the episode good. And is that complications? Like I think she likes the spoilers of war, so to speak. I think she likes the big house and the attention and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, you also it's like I'm in
a relationship. I'm with someone, you know, and it's not Yeah, they're not separate from one another.
They're kind of they're a unit, they're a pair, they are a couple.
Yeah, but yeah, it could be better. I'd like two. When I were walking in there, He's like, that's right, boys, Troy's back from the gutter, and had he brought someone with him. But after that date and now the Simpsons house, someone thinks that they're both jealous of her, and he says that he's taken her to a special screening of his latest film, which again is Muppet's Go Media from nineteen seventy seven, at the Route eighteenth flea market and
driving as you were saying, close with Demolition on Saturday. Yes, the only one's there watching the movie. It's kind of sad that you know that he's just his last film was also was only twenty years ago before this episode there, but twenty years ago. He's sitting there by himself, and but I did like the fact that he was copying the dialogue from the movie, and then she was as well. And then before they both kiss, he spraysed some breath
threshener into her mouth. We come back with a news report and apparently this guy's meant to be John Tesh. I don't know who John Tesh is. He was the host of Entertainment Tonight. Oh, speaking of entertainment tonight, Leond Moulton, a movie guy with Maltlon Davis.
Indeed, well, you can run that past when we record our.
Next to Yes episode. Yes, he can't believe you. What the verdict was male fraud and Leper in the backfield. And we get a clip on Leper in the backfield here and they say he's got he's up for some choice roles now because he's been seen with an actual woman and she says, looks like you're Does he say to her or she say to him, looks like you're wrong when you called him a washed up DV right, I think he said that to the woman.
Yeah.
Then Salma is now moving into Troy's place, and Troy brings out Jubjub. He's fantastic, He's everywhere you want to be. I did like the Jubjub just didn't become a forgotten character because he was introduced as for a child. Yeah, and he's still a part of Salema's life, which was very important. He shows off the house. It's fantastic and
we get various posters here. So incident at noon my Darling beef Eater with Dolores Montenegro and Astro heist on Gemini three And as I was telling Josh, in the iconic virtual Springfield game, there is redesigned posts for a Yeah, then what are the one of the things he tells it gubbage collection is Monday. If you want to throt a box, you have to cut it up. Do you do this? You the boxes to fit more stuff in
you're cycling. This is like a life hack that my next one name only taught me like last year, because he used to used to just chuck boxes in. It's like they rip it up and something fit more. Like, holy shit, I have I gone the first thirty four years of my life not doing this.
It's amazing.
She thinks his house is ultra modern and he shows her the aquarium bedroom but he's going to be sleeping downstairs and the visitor center and he reminds me about the Tens turns it tomorrow. It comes on at ten.
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slash four fingure Discout. Then MacArthur Parker calls up about the Planet of the Apes the movie or the Planet as the part. He says, You're gonna be starring as the human as the part who's born to play baby, and we cut to stop the Planet of the Apes. I want to get off, which is just one of the most iconic Simpsons bits of all time. I think it's really really good. Yeah, we went really in depth with Josh, but just even the story of how they
made it come together. It was like one line that I think was David Merkan or Davis Cohen Chimpanee Chimpanzee was straight. It was like, Okay, we have to make this way there.
You build it around that absolutely, Yeah.
Yeah, but if you can think of that, that's the core of this. Yeah. And just as you were saying, I thought it was a great comment by you as well with Josh, how you're saying these gags felt like they were already out there, you just have to pick them, yeah, said. And it's just like the doctor zais rhyming with Amadaeus. It's like, how nobody thought this.
Look at this beautiful low hanging fruit.
It must be so exciting when he caught something so clever and so obvious, but it's never been done before. You're ship.
I hate every eight by se from Jimpane to Chimpanzee. No, you'll never make a monkey out of me.
Oh my god, I was wrong all along.
You finally made a monkey.
Yes, finally made monkey.
Yes, you finally made.
I love you, doctor Sam, thank you. It's great to be back. I just want to say I wouldn't be here without the support of a very special lady, my always outrageous fiance, Salma. Take about sugar Beet, about it run?
What is your favorite part about it?
All?
The whole thing? I love the Oh, it's probably not to play the piano. That's great, that is fantastic.
Just think, I said to Josh, I love how it closes out on Jose.
I love you doctor, which is yeah, broad which you need You need.
To either close the first aid or just close the show with someone just declaring something. It's like it doesn't really mean anything.
But the down in front is also fantastic coming up, isn't it?
Oh my god?
Thanks, he's beautiful fiance. He's always outrageous fiance.
I love Dram mclue, but he's a douche.
Down in front is just like the permanent. But isn't it well, omer can't be happy for it? But also the acting here too, I feel Phil Hartmon genuinely sounds like he's exhausted. I like to think like he's jogged on the spot fly just before doing this spiel. This sounds exhausting.
It's great.
But now back at Troy's place and the kids are now playing in the pool. My face paid for that pool and my talent filled it with water. Hi, I'm Troy McClure, your future uncle, and Lisa remembers him from such film strips as Locker Room Tower Fight, The Blinding of Larry, it's great. Should you describe to explain what that is?
Well, yeah, I guess it doesn't really happen in school anymore, maybe even when you were at school.
But I mean you get in trouble if you did it.
Yeah, oh yeah when you just yeah, you'd have a tower, you'd be able to fashion your towel and do a whip.
Yeah, and you'd just whip someone on the butt. Don't chase me a full chocolate, don't make me run a full kid's got bosoms.
Yeah, if you really want to go hardcore, you used a wet towel.
Yeah, wet towels were insane. Oh no, it's a lethal weapon, it is. But some are in Margin they're just chatting. I liked hear the designs and Margins wearing a much more plain just Kmart swimsuit and an Ancho swimsuit where someone was wearing this very movie stars it up. Yeah. Yeah, And as girls, we dream always dream of having the idea of husband who knew it would come true for one of us. Guess which one seldom?
Yeah, it's not a heel turned by someone, but she's starting to sort of buy into the whole Hollywood. Yeah, the whole show biz myth and yeah, the fact that do you think it makes it better? Her proximity to fame makes her better than everybody else.
Yeah, there's actually a deleted scene which makes this next scene make more sense. So we're at Most and Homer and Troy just randomly they're getting drunk together. What that was was actually a bit of a subplot here where Marge asked Homer to take to organize Troy's bachelor party. Oh okay, and thats all the the bachelor party was at MOS. So that's why that at Most it's the end of the bachelor party. Because I've always sort of thought, why is Troy having to be with Homer there doesn't
really talk. Maybe you'd like to sort of create the idea in here, maybe someone said go hang out with Homer or that kind of thing. But that's why because there was deleted story, deleted scene. He wat your deleted scenes on the DVD where Marge says organize the bachelor party and it's with the Pooh and whatnot. At at Most interesting discussion us discussing here potential film ideas. There's already a lot of films on World War Two, nuts a little bit Dracula. Then he says, you know what,
you'll be a four star brother in law. And then Homer says, why are you even marrying someone?
Like, what's that?
What's the deal? He reveals his secret and he whispers in his ear, and Homer's immediately that's why it's a great home, because even home is like, I need to do something about this. As much as somewhere annoys me, I can't let her go through with this. So the wedding is now at the Botanical Gardens. Lady told you, yes, just wants to get married to the guy. Lovejoy then asked if anyone knows why these two shouldn't be married, and a customer Homer singing, what in his head?
Is it?
Rock and wrong?
Yeah? Interesting that an episode about a canceled movie star would have a music to you buy a canceled rock star?
Yeah? Was he canceled by this point though? Gary Glitter? I don't know if it was by this day.
But look, if I don't know about Gary Glitter, google Gary Glitter.
And that that song was. That song is now known for the Joker going down the stairs.
It is. It's a great song, fucking banger.
It's so good. She kisses Troy so going for the kiss, and Troy turns his head, kiss on the cheek, not on the mouth, on the cheek, and she says this is the best day of her life. He says it good for him too, because he's gonna be in the
front page of every news stand in the country. And then that night at home and Margin's in bed and Hammer walks and he shows he swiped the candy brightening room from the from the wedding cake that eats them and realize that they are not candy pointy, and Marge says she's never seen Selma happier, and Homer reveals that it's just a sham though, But enough talk. Let's struggle, and she doesn't want too turns off the lights by closing your eyes and trying to get to sleep. That's
they always do the gag in The Simpsons. Does any other show do that? Whether you see their eyes at night? Not that I'm aware, it makes absolutely no logisical sense go with it. Of course he was animated, I guess. But we come back from commercial. I'm now at the Aphrodity Inn. Welcome mister and missus. Troy McClure as well as Share and contest winner.
This better be important.
It's my wedding night.
I'm trying to sleep.
Hey, sleeper is for Hasban's my friend, and you're about to have a very crowded schedule. This marriage scam is his panoff big time phone for you.
Damn try, darling, come to bed.
I want to see the Troy McClure I remember from such films as Makeout, King of Montana and The Electric Jigglow.
Yeah in a minute, darling.
Oh, she may be helping my career, but she's starting to cramp my style.
Oh who cares? The offers are rolling in Paramount Wants. You're for a buddy comedy with Roblow and Hugh.
Grant, those sick freaks.
Okay, then get this.
I think they want you to play McBain's sidekick in em Brace Yourself, the new McBain.
Movie, McBain's sidekick.
God, damn, I'm going to see world.
So Roblo was a thracome with prostitutes, was at all young.
He was at like a political convention. I think somewhere in like I've forgot an exactly whyeah, but I think one of the girls was like underage.
Oh, that's trouble.
She was like sixteen or seventeen or something.
Not good, but a movie with Phil Hartman that sort of feel I'm with Trump called Roblow and I want to see the movie.
Of course you will. Yes.
Then Marge and Patty try to break the news too, smer. They say he's wrong for her. They're trying to break the news without actually telling her that it's an actual sham. You've got the case of the Green Eyed Gazongas. And then she calls out Patty's job and Marge's being stuck with Homer and Marge just like, you know what, fuck it, I'm just going to tell you.
Well, referring to her as a man who'd had to bathe to be a slob. Yeah, fantastic, it is.
Yes, much is shedding up, and he just blurts out de Troy doesn't love her, and he's just using her to revive his career. And it's almost like at the moment he was someone's like realizes, oh that's true, isn't it. Yeah, but she has to go confirm it anyway.
She's suppressed that information.
Yeah.
Sure.
Troy's then at home reading the newspaper, mccluere ankle's obscurity and I love the pools the paper down, is this a sham? Marriage's right there? Sure, baby's had a Probably ankles means cuts it off at the ankles.
No, no, it means it means exits. Okay, yeah, apparently it.
Was a I thought like he cuts his obscurity for the ankles, which means he's like, yeah.
Yeah, the showbiz trade publication variety. I think he had its own own lingo for a lot of things. But yeah, ankles was one of the terms that they ankles. Okay, but it justifies it because they have fun. She's happy, she's got money, job, job, has his own big hot flat rock, you know, his love and life.
At the moment. And then she says, but don't you love me, and he's like, of course do, Like I love Fresco. The difference is, we know our marriage is a sham. I love that line. There's plenty of marriages are at least we know ours is a sham. And then she asks are you gay?
I wish?
And then he starts detailing his romantic abnormality which must be hidden from public at all costs. And you don't want to hear that. No if you're Selma, no, no, just keep that to yourself. But she doesn't think she can do it. And then he says, smile for the camera. You just smile for the camera and enjoyed Troy's wild Ride. You go to the right parties, meet the right people. Sure you'll be a sham wife, but you be the envy of every other person in town. Wife in town.
And then she says, tell me again about Troy's Wild Rider. And she's like, you know what, I can actually probably.
Do this, and I'm sure there are many people who.
Have as a compromise because she does want love. Oh yeah, yeah, but that's like, yeah, you know, I'm getting all the other good stuff as well. You know what, I feel like Troy the kind of guy would be like, you know, go find somebody else on the side. It wouldn't care. Yes, the best of both worlds. Then they replaced Buster Keaton's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame with Troy's and he says, one day someone's going to have one too, And then we get another news report on me baying
for fatal discharge. MacArthur says, now you need a family, because you know you're in the running, but you're gonna need a family because you and the wife you're gonna have a baby, a baby. Ay, what do I do. I'll send over a pamphlet. I'll send over a pamplet. Basically, it'll be the kind of publicity you can't buy. You can't use baby names like Montana, Dakota or Florida has
already taken and it's just Oregon. Pacific's very hard like then ugly once again, and he tells Somemer that he wants to have a baby, and you know, I can get my own fragrance smelling of Troy, and he says her last, this could be her last. Oh. She says, this could be my last chance to be a mummy. It's almost like she's compromised. She's like, Ah, I don't know. I want to have a baby, but do want to
have it with this guy here? And then the waiters now offering her a cigarette, and he said, this is the line we'll discuss with Josh that someone wanted to cut out from now on. She's smoking for two which is brutal but funny. Someone and Troy then do their best to get into the mood and it's just not happening. Would you like some wine? Yes, and to come over here? But you come over here, make yourself comfortable, and it's just not going to happen here. She says, you having
a baby shouldn't be work. It's supposed to be expression of the love that we have for each other. And she just says, no, what, I just can't bring a child into a loveless marriage. And I think that's the Simpsons in a nutshell. What differs it from other shows where this character here feels like a real person.
Oh?
Absolutely, there is so much depth to sell. We here where you go? And she's like, I can do the marriage, but I can't bring a child here. It's just not going to happen. And Troy says, look, we'll just adopt. I'll call my agent, he'll find some child who's in on the deal. But she just says goodbye. I think she maye kissed them on the chee. I'm not too sure. Sure. Always remember him, but not from his films, which is a great partying line.
This is such a well written episode.
Just the ending that absolutely sticked this landing. Yeah, and he sadly watches her walk away with job as I was saying with Josh and yourself that he's not only watching her walk away, he's watching his career walk away with it. Because without that baby, without that, that's true, he's.
Built a little bit of momentum. Though, I mean, you get this not really a happy ending, but I mean chronic clau is not going anywhere. Well, that sadly is, but yeah, he's riding a little bit of a crest of the wave, and you know he may not be and it well decides not to be in McBain for fatal discharge. Instead, he does his own passion project.
Makes a bad philt. MacArthur Parker did not want this decision to happen. The contrabulous fab traption of Professor Horatio Fuffnagel pull this gable payoff. Twentieth Centry Fox says it.
Will loved it. I've got nothing more is I own love it?
Yes, And that is the end of a fish Caught Summer. Just an absolutely just It's just I think it's one of my favorite episodes now. I think being a kid, I never really liked this one. I think being a bit older, a few miles in the meter, being married, you know, experiencing your actual genuine love and I just think, I don't know, maybe it's just the u the fact that I love it, that we've got it before Phil Hammont passed away as well, that that part of as well.
But there's just so many gags in this.
There's a lots and I'm only so much like about it. I mean, yeah, it's just got, as you said, one of the great set pieces and stop the plan of the apes I want to get off.
It's yeah, which is just like out of nowhere.
Yeah, it's a fantastic showcase for Phil Hartman and his talents and his skill set. It's funny from go to woe. It's really really tightly constructed, and yeah, it's it's emotionally mature and not in a way that feels kind of oh now it's slathering on the sentiment. No, just it does it almost stealthily.
Yes, We'll hope you guys enjoyed our review of a Fish Court Someone. Hope you enjoyed our chat with Josh Weinstein as well. We're going to be getting back on the show next year. Hopefully maybe we can do Bartvia's Australia with Bill locally. I think having them both at the same time and just be like seeing them just banter with ideas and stories would be great.
We wouldn't have to talk much at all. Let's just hope that they start their own since this podcast because they were in trouble.
Oh man, oh me, don't do it. Don't do it. But what you should be doing, guys out there listening is supporting us on Patreon. If you enjoyed the show, you can support us for as little as just one dollar per month. That's right, just one dollar per month.
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Kind of a bargain, kind of a bargain in ded make it a Christmas present to Guyandanda, Oh, excellent idea, excellent idea in d But this has been a review of a fish course someone. We'll back next week with a season twenty one review. But and you find the words for those incredible listeners out there, you've been listening to Guyandano. You may remember us from podcasts such as Forfinger Discount