Tyra Banks on Modeling, Producing, and Ice Cream

countless fascinating and inspiring people. And it's those people that inspire me as I head into the next chapter of my life and career. I'm inspired by fashion designers and painters. I'm inspired by entrepreneurs and athletes. I'm also inspired by anyone who was able to perform at the highest level and replicate it again and again. So in Four Courses, I'll be taking you along for the ride while I

talk with the top talent of our time. In each conversation, I focus on four differ in areas from my guest life and career, and during those four Courses, I'm gonna dig deep and NCover new insights and inspirations that we can all use to fuel ourselves to push forward. My guest for a debut episode is a professor at Stanford University School of Business. She's a TV producer, writer, and actress, and she's also one of the biggest supermodels of all time.

Without further delay, let's get into my conversation with the legendary Tyra Banks Hi Jeffrey for our first course, I wanted to ask Tyra about stories that highlight the influence of her parents, who had a surprisingly unique effect on her development. So, your mom was a medical photographer. Did she show you like pictures and stuff that were like gruesome? I grew up visiting her after school very often at

the hospital that she worked at. Yeah, so yes, surgeries, anatomical dissections, lots of different deformities and autopsies, and she would take these pictures. And I would always look at her portfolio ship this huge portfolio. It was like bigger than eight by ten, number twelve. I don't just like a Lembi fourteen size photos in her portfolio, and I saw all kinds of stuff. So to this day, Jeffrey, if something happened to you and you were like bleeding, Like,

I would not freeze, I would go into action. I would not be grossed out. I would do what I had to do to keep you alive and safe before we get to the hospital. Because of my mom. That can either be like one of those experiences that traumatizes you as a child, or you use it and it seems like you've used it to your benefit. But how odd is that growing up with medical photography. I mean, it's not like it's showing you anything beautiful. It's showing

you everything that's flawed. So you grew up with visions of imperfection. Yeah, and maybe that's why later in life I never connected this. But I wonder if that's why I was very attracted to things that were not like super traditional when it comes to beauty, Like when I meet people and I'm like, oh my god, and their nose is slightly crooked and hooked to the left and the light is hitting it this way, and oh my god, that would be gorgeous in a photograph. I don't know.

I don't know. Is that because my mom was a photographer and I knew lighting, or was that because she was a medical photographer. I have no idea, but I like interesting beauty, like unique things about people in very My eye is attracted to that, and I always want to photograph it or tell them that, oh my god, your eyes are too far apart. Do you know that? That is amazing? That's like antelope signifies kind of beautifulness and it actually photographs well. Like people like you just

tell me my eyes to do far apart. I'm like, no, no no, no, it's a compliment. I'm going to remember that because I know a lot of people with their eyes far apart. I never mentioned it, but now that you said something, I'm gonna say. I talked to Tyra and she's an expert of this. Its photographs beautifully. Why is that? I don't know. If you think about Oprah Winfrey, her eyes are far apart and Oprah and a photo, it's so beautiful and commanding. Sometimes on my social media,

I post photos of Oprah because it's really beautiful. I don't know why, but the camera loves it. What did your dad think about all this? Was he a quiet one? You know? There's the mother of the dad ones, the acquiet one ones, the sting one is the disciplinarian, which one was, how do you know this about my family? Is it always like that? I think we all have this similar thing if we have like normal parents, ones like quiet but like authoritarian. You know. It was actually

the opposite of that my mom was. It is. Yeah, my mom was loud, crazy, fun, authoritarian, like I'm having fun with you. Don't forget I'm your mama, and I will cuss your ass out. So it was this like balance and my dad was quiet, more reserved, and I could do no wrong. So he was he was in the computers and was he a new curious research Yeah. No, I want to know about your family because this triangle made you special, and I want to know more about at home, Like how did that triangle sort of like

unite for you. I think more of the influence on me of who I am today on the business side, on the discipline side, I would have to say my mom. But it's interesting when it comes to like school and stuff. I was a self starter. My mom didn't say did you do your home mark? Did you do this? For some reason, it just was naturally in me to just finish it and make sure I did it as soon as I came home so I can get it out of the way and watch my TV. But my dad

was harder on me. I remember one year in school, I got all a's and I got a C in p that's almost like a badge of honor. Now I don't I guess, I don't know, but he was like, he didn't even say, oh wow, I'm so happy these a's, but you know, let's let's talk about the sea and see. All he said was, what's going on with that C? And I will never forget that to this day. What's

going on with that C? And what he didn't know was I didn't dress every day at Pe because I was ninety eight pounds in five nine and I was insecure about my body because it was so skinny, and I didn't want the girls in the locker room to see me. So that's where the CEA came from. Just some days I just couldn't do it, and I would just say, I don't, I don't know. I just forgot my uniform or my PE uniform or stuff like that. So that's where it came from. But perhaps that made

me stronger, I don't know. In our second course, I had to find out how Tyra found her place in the world of modeling. She went from an undiscovered high school student in Los Angeles to a global superstar just a few years later. But it turns out that early on, she had a much different vision for her career. I wanted to be a film and television producer, writer, director. I wanted to write commercials. That was my passion. That's what I wanted to do since I was nine years old,

just naturally attracted to that. Did not want to take pictures of dead people. I wanted to, you know, write and direct and produced for a live people. And that's what was That was my path, that was my plan. But on the first day of high school when I was thirteen, a girl came up to me and asked me was I a model? And I was sitting there by myself, kind of insecure here for stay of high school. But we ended up becoming best friends and she taught

me everything. This woman girl at the time, was like a modeling like maybe I learned from her how to teach other models later because she taught me everything, posing clothes, buying cheap clothes, how to do my hair thirteen How did she know all this? She was obsessed with magazines and modeling already, and she taught me so so much. And then I think she got an agency in like the ninth grade or tenth grade, and then I got an agency in the eleventh grade. When'd you get your

first check? And how much was it? And when you looked at that, could you really believe it? I don't remember my first modeling check. It probably was like fifty dollars or something. I don't remember that. I remember my first modeling job, but not the check. The first big check, Jeffrey, it was five thousand dollars, and I was like what I was in high school? I got a five thousand

dollar check. Now that was over thirty years ago. A five thousand dollar check for a high school or today is a hell of a lot of money, so imagine what that is thirty years ago. I was still a hell of a lot of money. And my mom and me we went to the California Pizza Kitchen to celebrate. So you're having pizza kitchen, you got five grand in your pocket. Was your mother congratulating you or cautioning you, or some balance of each, Because it seems like your

mom was such a good effect on you. How did your mom get comfortable with this. Honestly, she was shocked because she didn't even see it in me, you know. And and yeah, no, she she never thought I was a model. And and my mom had a side business where in our living room on the weekends she would transform it to a photo studio and our back porch on top of the washer and dryer she transformed into

a dark room. And so she had her own photography business separate from the hospital where women would come and my mom would do their hair and their makeup and their clothing styling and the photography. And I was her assistant, so I would hand her the makeup brushes, I would check her you know, the light meter thing like check the light meeter for her. While she was over there, I would get the women that she was photographing and sometimes men like water or snacks. And this was for years.

So for years, you know, she's photographing you know, hospital people in the day, but like people just you know, wanting beautiful pictures of themselves by night. And still never thought that I could model. And I didn't even think about it or wanted to. So when like my friends said that to me and I came home, my mom was like, what are you talking about? What's your friends talking about modeling? You know, it was just not a

thing um. And then when I told her I really wanted to do it, she was nervous about it, but she did support me, but she had her reservations. It sounds like that was the start of everything. I mean, here's this peatreet dish. It's just blossomed. Like you have your mom doing night end day work, one of beautiful people, one of you know, not so beautiful things, and then you coordinating it. You were actually producing it right there. You were a producer at fift You were helping her

do that. That that's what doucers do. Then I was all set to go to college. Got accepted to every single college I applied to for film and television production. I decided on Loyola Marymount University. I want to stay close to home. And two weeks before my first day of school, after I had towards the campus, I had met my professors, I had bought l m U sweatshirts, t shirts, everything. Two weeks before my first day of l m U, I got discovered by a French agent.

A second discovery. First was the girl at the bench at high school. But this was a French agent saying they came to my modeling agency was Elite Models at the time in l a and they were like, that's the only girl I want to take back to Paris fashion Week. What year was this? Wow, what a fantastic time to be in Paris. Yes, did you have someone they're guiding you? What did your mom go with you? No? My mom couldn't afford to because she had to pay

the rent, so I went to Paris by myself. I remember in the airport my parents were there and sending me off, and I waved to them and hugged and then as I was walking away from them, they see my back only I'm walking away and I boo hooed and started crying. But I did not want them to see that because I'm gonna cry right now. I didn't want them to see that. So I'm like waving like this and waving so they see the back of my

head and me waving, but really I'm bawling. And I never turned back around because I knew they would panic. And I remember that eleven hour flight kind of in the back of the plane near the toilet, and you know, after the mill cart comes, everybody has to go to the toilet, and I spelled crap for about eight hours on that flight. And I was in the smoking section. I mean not in the smoking section, but the smoking section was like two rows ahead of you. So I'm like,

what does that mean? I still smell smoke and crap. Thank god, there's no more smoking on airplanes. So where do you stay? What I know Paris really well, where do you stay? I stayed in the model's apartment in the beautiful and the model's apartment was only a model's apartment that had two people, meaning me included. It wasn't like a big dormhouse, because they did have those, but I was. It was just I was with a small agency that didn't have like a lot of money for

those big dormhouses. So it's just me and this beautiful Israeli model by the name of Yeah. And I lived Dorid for for many months, and it was hard as hell living in Paris and not speaking the language, but then learning to use my Spanish to mixed with French to like get by. And I noticed that if I tried to speak French, that French person w then starts speaking English with me. But if I tried to speak English, I'd be like, do you realize what country you're in?

Can you at least try? And I learned that trying to buy a Metro card my first day, when I was like an Orange card. I need an Orange card, an Orange card, And this woman was just looking at me, blank face behind the glass, blank face. And then the man behind me says, madame, you should try to say car donge and just say this sentence to her. And then I asked her in my broken friend and she just opened up to me and she like franglished English French to me and was like, you have a knew?

I was like, oh, respect where you go. Don't be the ugly American thinking everybody needs to acquis to you. Because it was a huge lesson. How long was the contract and when you sign a contract like that, what do they expect? How do you know what's going to happen. I might have had a contract, but I gave myself one year to be booked directly, meaning not having to

do auditions. I was like, if I can be booked directly, I'll put off school for a couple of years and model and make some money so that I can pay for college. So that's why I said, one year, if I'm not direct booking, if I still have to go to auditions, I'm leaving this modeling crap because I got college waiting for me. And then I prepared like crazy

for Paris. I went to a French fashion library and studied every designer, how they walk, how they want you to look, and and broke history and had twenty five fashion shows that first season. Two weeks after I arrived to Paris as a no name nobody for our third course, I knew that Tira could share some incredible business lessons now.

Unlike so many stars that shine bright for short amounts of time, Tara found a way to pivot away from a fragile modeling career into building a resilient business empire. When did you go from knowing your very successful model doing all kinds of incredible stuff, Victoria's secrets everything, to leveraging that and making this foresight into a business. How

did that transfer in your mind? It transferred in my mind when my mother would tell me, and I thought she was being mean, but she would tell me that it's not gonna last forever, that models have an expiration date on them like football players, like an athlete exactly, and you don't know when that expiration date is. They're in control over that, and so it's important for you to be in control and leave this industry before it leads you. And I was like crushed, like what that's

so mean? Well, what a great advice, Yes, amazing advice. But back then I was like, well, what are you talking about. Everybody wants me, everybody wants me on their magazine, you know, and in their fashion show. She said, not for long. What happened to Home Girl? That was here last season in like twelve shows out of your thirty, where is she? I'm like, oh my god, Mom only saw her in one fashion show she goes and that will be you unless you get in front of it.

And I remember being backstage once in Paris and seeing Cindy Crawford and Cindy Crawford was not walking the runway, she was leading a crew of MTV's House of Style and hosting. That was the first time I was like, oh, wow, you could do something else and be a model. You don't just have to be a model all the time. So that was like a serious moment for me of saying Okay, there's something else. Although the passion to produced

television and film was still there, it never left. So lightbulb moment really was because your mom said, you gotta think a hundred years, not five years. Was there another mentor? I had to be another businessman tour. You mentioned Cindy Crawford. It was Cindy Crawford. For me, I used to be

really obsessed with her career. I used to look at her Pepsi commercials and being like wow, and she used to have it all sounds so archaic now, like swimsuit calendars, but back then for me, I was like, Wow, just swimsuit calendars. She's producing them, and like I was just like so enamored. So I I kind of followed a lot of things that she did. I did to swimsuit calendars over the years, and I realized I didn't know it was called white space at the time, but I was.

I was looking like, Okay, Mom says different different have to be different, not the same. Okay, there's there's no like black model that's like a Cindy Crawford, like Americana girl, just you know, Inglewood, California girl, and just happened to be modeling, and you know, not like runway diva. You know, I started as a runway diva, but my body was telling me you ain't gonna be able to sit into them closed for much longer. And you know, pivoted and and really studied Cindy and said, how can I do

that as the girl next door that's black? It hasn't been done before. When You've got that first anchoring for the production for America's Next holp Mon, I would describe how that came about. In a business sense. I had ideas for film and television, and I don't know where those scrap papers are, but I had ideas, and at the time I had an agent and I would pitch them to him. I showed him. I was like, I had this idea. What do you think about this? He

was like, it's a dumb idea. A couple of months later, what about this idea for a TV show? I can produce? This is something I want to do. I'm not a model trying to be a producer. I'm a producer that happened to be like modeling. And he's like, no, dumb idea, And I was like, what about this idea? Like models, they live in a house together. They it's like that American idol new thing that's really doing well. But but also I can like mix it with like the real world.

MTV is the real world because an American idol, you don't see them at home. What if I mix those two together and said it in the modeling industry, which is my people always say, right, what you know, produce what you know. That's what I know. I know that world. He was like, Nah, models are unsympathetic characters and vapid. Nobody would watch that. That's what he told me. And I was tired of this because I felt like I

had a natural instinct for producing. I felt I felt like I did, and so I complained to my best friend at the time, and we're still super close, Kenya Barris, who's the creator of Blackish, and he's one of the writers on the new movie coming to America, and he says tons of huge success Kenya. At the time, he was still a younger writer, and I was like, Kenya, I'm so tired of this. He's like, yo. He starts

like this, yo, tie like your ideas are dope. I'm tired of hearing your agents say that they're dumb, like, YO, like this model one is a really good one, Like you want me to do something about it? I'm like what, he goes, just trust me. So then he comes back a couple of days later and he's like, I talked to my agent who's a scripted agent. He connected me to the unscripted agent at my agency, meaning his agency, And there's some dude that they want you to meet

that they represent called Ken Mock. What do you think about that? And I was like all right, And so I met Ken Mock at the Standard Hotel and I pitched him the idea and he was like that genius and Ken Mok was like a godfather of competition reality at the time. He started a lot of these wonderful

formats that to this day people have copied everywhere. And he said it was a good idea, but later he confessed that it was a good idea, but he thought that he would have to share producing with me, with me being a vanity producer meaning I'm not doing work. I'm just my name is on the credits, and yeah,

but that's what he thought. And then a month later he confessed me, He's like, Wow, you're really good at this, and you know what you're doing, and you've never done this before, And I honestly thought I was gonna have to be splitting this morning with you but doing all the work. But you're such a fun partner and really have instincts, And I don't think that America's Next Top Model would have ever been successful with just me, and

it would have never been successful with just Ken. Like we are Yin and Yang and we need each other, needed each other to make this jugger not you know show that ended up being twenty four seasons in America hundred and eighty countries. The show has aired forty international versions. So I don't like to produce them to the expected. I like to bring things that are fresh, unique and different,

give people what they don't know they want. And at the same time, once I give them what they want, I think it is imperative to stay asymmetrical and not continue to have them know what's coming. I think asymmetry is key, and I think it's one of the reasons why America's Next Top Model has been on for so long, because we're like, okay, you think you got you got that, and then boom or we had so many copies of

our show. Over time, different models starting America their their versions and we kept pivoting, so they just constantly kept looking like they were copying and they were way behind, and these shows never took shape. I was going to ask you as a question, I crossed it out because I was gonna say, what do you say to a young woman who wants to be a business person and take ownership? And I'm like, you just have to listen to this podcast and you'd have everything you need to know.

But if you get a bulleted I mean, what would you say to a fifteen year old that is going to choose to be a business person. I want to make my own money. I want to be independent, and I want to like I want to rule the world. Want is obsession and and particularly to this to this generation. Popularity and likes are now on on social media? Are I predict in five years it's going to be a commodity. So what is the thing that's going to make you

stand out? And obsession and studying those areas that you're interested in where you know, it's so much staying on the internet all damn night and searching ice cream this or potato chips that, or lip gloss this or whatever it is, and knowing so much about your competitors that

you know them more than they know themselves. I think the next thing is if you can afford to to try to become an intern and either work for free or for minimum wage as an intern, get in, get into the companies that you admire, or the competitor of the company that you admire, because the one that you

admire won't accept. You be unembarrassed about maybe having to have ten roommates, or to stay home a little bit longer with Mama and Daddy, your grandma or whoever you're living with, so that you can, in turn and not have to worry about making a lot of money in the beginning if you have that luxury. If you don't have that luxury, have a job that affords you to be able to to tackle your passion while you're making money.

So it's a standard like actor thing, bartending restaurants, working at night on that money making jobs, so that in the day, during day daytime hours, when people are available by email and phone calls, you can pursue the passion. I mean, that's as about as well said as I can do it, and I really love the fact that I did the same thing as an intern. I said to myself, this chef is the greatest chef I've ever seen.

I'm gonna work for nothing and suck his brains and get every idea he has, and it's going to be the best university. And I don't care if I don't get paid. I'll borrow money. And I borrow money to live was way cheaper than tuition, so I could get the skills, and after two years I had a notebook

like that. And it's what you're saying. I think it's such an easy recipe in some profound ways, but it's tough when your friends are doing this and knowing that, going here, going that, hanging out, and you're not hanging out. You're you're like you're making things happen. Four or fourth and final course, I got to speak with Tyra about ice cream. Yes, ice cream. If you haven't been living under a rock for the last ten years, you know that Tyra Banks invented the words smiles spelled s M

I Z E. And it means to smile with your eyes. Well, now Tyra and her team are deep into research and development or you guessed it, smiles cream. Her brand new ice cream company. So I was just saying smiles cream. We said, what a genius name. I want to taste. I want to be on the tasting board. Oh my god, I would be very intimidated by you being on my tasting board. Cream. So we have our own proprietary Bass

ice cream. Bass was very important to me. At first we were going with co packers or they would give us their base and all that, and then we like, we're like, you know what, we want to own this space. And I am now I went from being an ice cream with Fionado. Did I say that right to a to an expert? I would like to say. And I, over the course of I don't know, I don't know, six months or so, ordered from any company and every

ice cream company that would deliver any and everyone. And I was, you know, because I was studying and understanding overrun and butterfat and you know, just all this stuff. And I would be like too much air to dance, I can't pound the pint, meaning like I want to be able to like just get in there, and if it's too too heavy, I was like, Or sometimes I'd be like, oh tastes too expensive, meaning I don't want a five star restaurant experience with the ice cream. You

know that ice cream. It comes in like that speaking to the choir here, preaching to the choir. But you know at the five star restaurant Jeffrey, and it's like shaped like an almond. It's not like a scoop, and it's like canal. That's called a canal. Oh canal, can a canal. Let's not shape like a canal, and it is very rich, but it is very little, you know, and so but a point you can't. So after all that time, I realized the type of basse that I

want um leaning more on the custard style base. So yes, we do got some eggs up in there, some egg You'll gotta have good vanilla. Yeah. You have to have really good butterfat content. Yeah. Really, you have to really have a good sugar. You have to have terbinado or a sugar that's pure cane that isn't processed. I think because sugar does everything. It keeps it soft, pliable, and it also gives it that after taste. So if the

sugar is not good, you're screwed. And it's the hardest thing to do is to get that mouth feel that's just luxury, but not like like your have you just took a bath and cream exactly. I don't want that that. I call it greasy sometimes slimey taste in the mouth, you know. And so we finally hit it. So we are a custard base. But I feel like saying custard to like Americans in certain states they'll be like, what

is that like some creamberu let, what you're talking about? No, frozen custard is like, you know, that's old fashioned stuff. I want to ask you about did you eat ice cream in your childhood? Like is this a memory that you like, I just got to go back and recreate something and and how did that happen? Ice Cream for me is a huge memory. There's two big food memories

for me. One is barbecue, And I did not understand why I loved barbecue, and it means so much to me and the smell of smoked meat and charcoal all that for me, it makes me feel really good. And I didn't know why. I was like, I just like barbecue, la barbecue sauce. And then I realized it's because it reminds me of my dad who's still with us. But like summers and him barbecuing and the family coming over and my dad cooking these ribs and making his own

sauce and used to put pineapples in his sauce. And so there's just this memory of me and being Daddy's little girl and having that time with him at the grill. That's why I like barbecue so much. And ice cream memories with my mama. So my mom and I probably like Friday nights. I still had my school uniform on and we would get in the car after dinner and we would drive to Hollywood Boulevard and go to the Hogan Dahs Yeah, or she would get two scoops of chocolate.

I would get two scoops of coffee. My twelve my thirteen year old self gets of coffee. I love the taste. And we would sit in the car and we would just talk about anything and everything and watch all the interesting people in Hollywood, from like you know, like tourists to the people in weird costumes and stuff, and just my mom and I had a hat and still have a relationship where nothing is off limits. Everything, boys, men, sex, anything,

I ask anything, she would tell me the truth. And and so those two things barbecue and ice cream are something special to me. I love that you go right to ice cream and barbecue. That is so fantastic. And I always find ice cream is one of those things. It's sort of self soothed. You know. That's when you're really you're either in pain, or you're in love or something else is something going on, and ice cream is like one of the answers. It's one of the answers

to self soothe. I teach personal branding at Stanford the Business School, and I first day of school, I tell my students difference is better than better. You can't just be better. What are you bringing different to the table? You as a chef, I mean these original recipes and you know what I mean, like you have this different thing. You'll take something classic and you put your spin on it,

and that's it. You can't just be better. And so as as an as an entrepreneur with ice cream, I was like, Okay, amazing, bass, it's going to be this, gonna be that. It's gonna be luscious but not too lushi. It's gonna be this, it's gonna be that. But the differentiator for me was finding something else and not just marketing and I'm very inspired by cracker Jacks. Did you eat cracker Jacks as a kid? Oh? The prize at the bottom of that You kidding me? I would open

the box just for the prize. I wouldn't even eat this exactly. I don't know how many people remember that, but it's it was really it was a brilliant marketing brilliant Basically, the prize was less than a penny cost of something that was so nefarious and silly that you would like, why did I just put six hundred collies of sugar in my body? You're right, Like, as business people, we now look at that prize and see that it was not worth a damp penny to the company, but

worth everything to us. And you wanted that prize, whether it was a temporary tattoo or a little ring or whatever it was. And so inside of every serving of SMIs cream there is a prize, and it's an incredible prize. Yes, inside the ice cream. Inside the ice cream. Yes, so it's okay. So how did you I mean it has to be frozen. Obviously, there's no fake compartment under it that you slide it up. You know, it's just as you're digging digging, digging, you are eating that ice cream

and then you are rewarded with this prize. And there's different types of prizes, so we have in robed cookie doughs and different flavors of cookie dough, and that cookie dough corresponds to the flavor of the ice cream. So birthday cake type of strawberry birthday cake ice cream. There's like a sprinkle cookie dough. And this is really high quality cookie dough. It's not like this is like serious gourmet cookie dough. In the future it would be different chocolates,

but low temp chocolates. It doesn't like hurt your teeth when you're in there, and chocolates that are like cereal milk flavored and berry flavored stuff, and you open that prize and there's like fantastic fun inclusions in that ice cream. And then for me, it's also not just about like digging and finding like some spice surprise. It's connected to goals. If you dig, you work hard, and then you were

a word when you work hard for your goal. So that's kind of the whole process behind SMA scream um wellness. What do you eat, what wakes up in the morning, how do you take care of yourself, and how do you balance mental health and real health. So if I'm a honest with you and I feel like I should be, right now, I am not taking the best care of myself. I wake up in the middle of the night. I

pick up my phone. I'm doing emails because I don't have time to do it in the day because my scream is taking okay, So same, okay, So we're the same. This this new business is consuming me, and I'm okay with that because I know that there's an end to a startup. A startup is not always a startup, but in order for the startup to be successful, I have to go back to that word, and I have to be obsessed. I know that, and I have to push my team, but pick up the slack and know that

I can push them. But I'm not going to push them till they're crazy. I'm gonna go crazy. So I'm gonna say I need you to do X y Z. Don't worry about that. I'll do that because I need them to still be strong long and I know that I have a lot of capacity to take on a lot. So I wake up three o'clock in the morning like I did last night and did all kinds of stuff.

I did notes on a new packaging. We have a huge collaboration with a very huge person that will have a smile scream flavor, and I was going over the packaging of that. I was going over some strategy, all kind of stuff. Then wake up in the morning, grab a phone. Shouldn't do that, but I do. I do not get on a treadmill. I do not get on that damn peloton that is in my basement until it's a closed rack. Right, Oh my god, it is the

most beautiful closed rack. Oh my god, the sweats and the socks on it, and just more emails, phone calls to people in Europe, phone calls to people in the Middle East, phone calls to you know, West coast of East Coast of New York. And then just zoom meeting after zoom meeting, after zoom meeting, after zoom meeting, Tasting

with our ice cream scientists and chefs, NonStop. However, six o'clock pop stop, time with my son, playing Legos, cuddle with mommy, wonderful time until bedtime with him, and of course we have morning time together to I've learned now to put my phone down for an hour from morning time with him. So what do you eat? Do you cook? Are you in the kitchen? Are you a farmer's market? You go there, you shop, You do everything to the farmer's market about three times a year. Well that's not bad.

Who cooks in the house. My mom cooks, my man cooks. I'm not the cook, but I am the queen of the leftovers. I know how to take something from two days ago. Of course you do, and mix that up and oh my gosh, it's amazing. So I'm the leftover chef and the table chef. So if something is nasty in a restaurant, not yours, because yours are amazing. But you know, a little taste is a little something. I tell the waiter. Can have a little soy sauce, can

have some honey, can have some sarracha. And yeah, my son's favorite cartoon is About to Tui, which touches my heart being a foodie, isn't it amazing? Unbelievable? So our home thing is if something is bland, he goes, Mama, can you rat to tat that? Mama rat to tat it? Oh my god, we could go on and on. First of all, I wanna. I want to thank you for all the time you've given me, and it's incredible what you've done. You are really a model for every young

woman out there. And I don't mean just a model, I mean a real model of life, model of how do you want to be in life, and how respectful and kind you are, and you have so much empathy and I really appreciate the time. And I need some ice cream. So I'm gonna give you your pr person my address. I will shift you some ice cream on some drying allergic to nothing, So whatever you want to ship me, I will have. You can put whatever surprise

in there. I will take it gladly. Alrighty well, I'm gonna ship you ice cream, and I'm going to give you a scorecard so you can let me know what to do because and never stops, R and D never stopped. I would do that, and I would like you to read that at it's not at three o'clock in the morning on a normal day. Thanks very much for listening to four Courses with Jeffreys and Caring a production of

I Heart Radio and Corner Table Entertainment. Our executive producer is Chris of her hasiotis four Courses, is produced, edited and mixed by Jonathan Hawes Dressler. Our research is conducted by Jesselyn Shields. This episode was engineered by Cibet Party, Joe Tis Dahl and Louis Belane Melton. Our talent booking is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent and special thanks to our entire team, Margaret Scarion, Jared Keller, Tara Halper and Molly Swanson, without whom this would not have come together.

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