Jeff Mauro on Performance, Humor and Red Sauce

celebrity chef and fellow Food Network host. He got to start with Network TV when he won his final season of Food Network Star, and he's known for his love and aptitude for great sandwiches. Without further delay, let's get into my conversation with the sandwich King and my dear friend Jeff Morrow. All right, what do you think? Are you ready? Like I say before every song when the Jewel Bags play this up? Uh, Mr Jeff Morrow, A good afternoon, and thank you for joining us on four Courses.

It's about time, That's all I gotta say to that. It's about time for our first course. I wanted to ask Jeff about his childhood in Chicago, growing up as one of fifteen cousins in a large Italian American family. Ever the comedian, It turns out he delivered some of his earliest performances at the kids dinner table. Let's go back to sort of your four and five. You're you're

in Illinois and you're around, you're on the table. What is the first to smell of food that you can sort of think that when you smell it, it's like in the furniture, you know that smell? Right? Yeah? What is it? That smell? Because that smell was at my house growing up, at my grandma's house, at my aunt's house. And it's that like deep simmering red sauce. I mean, like cooked for a day, never saw the fridge, simmered and then delitted and then sat overnight and then simmered again.

And it was Sunday, and it was started early, and it's sent intensified with each hour as that sauce reduced and became even more like sweet and tomato eat and fragrant.

I mean it's visceral, Like I smell that walking into my own house and if Sarah's making any tomato based sauce and it's like it brings me back to those meals every Sunday in my Grandma Cays and pause, my Grandpa Joe's house, the same house my mom grew up in a two bedroom, four kids, two adults, no basement, no upper stairs, just two bedrooms and every piece of furniture covered in plastic. And that's not even a joke. So there's nowhere comfortable to sit except around the table.

And there'd be eighteen, you know, the kids would be in the kitchen at the little nook table the four mica top and the built in booth, and we like eight of us would squeeze there and all the adults and whoever older kids would squeze around the table and it would be the same menu. Sausage, meatballs, ravy, musta choli salad and you know, c K four TCMO jugs of wine. And I remember, it takes me back there. Man, it was like the greatest gift I ever got where

those times every Sunday. You know, my my mom has three siblings. Everybody had four kids, and we're all in the same so there's sixteen. First, well, my uncle had three kids. It's easier to say that way. He was a slacker, right, you only had three or three from two different marriages, so he you know, he was a wild child. He was doing the best he could know

exactly my break, I know, right, three slacker. So I have all these cousins that am extremely close with, like my cousin Joe's coming over for his Friday bear with me on the front porch at four o'clock, you know. So, and it all centered around that, not only the food, but that smell, that particular smell. How did the work too? Was there like an attendant that would like help someone get in and out of the bathroom? And how many bathrooms you have for all those people? Oh, in my

my grandparents house one one bathroom? Hot that work? Yeah, there was a guy there. He was He had denten, he had lister, he had a cook, a couple of packs of light cigarettes, you know, some fart spray all that. You threw him a buck or a sawbuck if you had a good week and you need be on your way. No, I remember, I mean like sometimes after dinner, Yeah, there was a lineup saying I mean you know that's I

never thought about that. I mean to me, it was always like the bed situation for my mom growing up in that house. The bathroom was the real issue. I think now that I think about it, real issue, right, And we're like, if we don't have like two bathrooms with three bathrooms, we freak out right. It's like it's not possible. Oh my god. I mean there's literally three

showers in my house that have never been used. That's what happens to you're an international television start did you store Do you store all your podcast equipment in one shower like we do here? And uh, it's so much crap. But you got all this recording stuff. Where does it go? You know, it's like a mess. Well, you could see my room from this is like, I don't know, fifteen by eighteen. This room, it's not big. And I have all the instruments from my band, all my instruments. Lorenzo's

right next door. I don't know. Men just with with the space. I guess it's in blood to be resourceful like that. I love the sauce smell. I think that in my house. I can tell you that this there was similar smells, but it was both the onions and lentils and lamb, and I swear it turned the wallpaper a different shade of color over thirty or forty years. Fat, you know, the fat that comes out and just it comes out in a mist right and it has to

go somewhere. Yeah, And there was no like high powered external exhaust fans blowing in those kitchens right now they blew it back in. It went up and then blew right your face. It was like what was what glasses on? You couldn't see what you're cooking in the first five minutes. I remember, I'd like go to parties and so I just you know, I have that big garlic smell and the sauce smell on me, and I can dance with

young ladies and like you smell like Italians foods. Well, you seem to have gotten a real dose of food in the way that I think that most people in this business have. They really get it from the the ancestors. They get it from being around it so much they don't even know they're getting it. But then somehow you got the acting bug and you decided like this might not be what you want to do. You wanted to you were doing something else. What happened, Well, the power

of food was right from it. It was like stupid. How how noticeable it was, right, I mean like around boom right there, young, we're eating where you know, every celebration revolved around trades of food, right home cooked meals, eating, chewing, smiling, laughing. But what I love, like my first stage was not the stage. It was those tables. And I had a lot of cousins, a lot of siblings, a lot of loud people hard to get attention. I can be mean,

I could be loud or I could be funny. And for me, it was like that's what developed that muscle early on, and that you know kind of zest for performance was like this is my venue. I'm like, I'm I learned, and I get a laugh from the uncle and I get from the other uncle who's harder to make laugh, and You're like, I gotta stick. I got a routine and this is I love this like I love being Even then you get invited to the adult

table a little more. You know, I worked the you know, I cut my teeth at the kid's table and then I I you know, i'd get the uh, I get the bump up to the adult table after a couple of years and maybe get a little nipple wine and were at a cigar and worked the room. But I'll never forget like one of the most defining moments I was my grandpa's funeral. Right, it was the luncheon, which I lunch from a young age. That was like that was my zone luncheon I called I killed never met

a funeral runch and right didn't crush. And in my uncle's that was back when Andrew Dice Clay was popular, and we said, you know, my brother would have a tape of a tape of a tape that was we couldn't let your parents because of all the swearing and the raunchy humor, right, super rated r especially for like a sixth grade but we would like put in our cassette players are are Walkman's wed like ride or bike,

And I memorized everything. So my dad and my uncle's they pull me in the room like the side room, right, and there be like go ahead. I'm like what Dad, He's like, He's like, give me, give me a cigarette unlit, right and give me like go ahead, do do the dice. And I'd sit there and I'd be like macar de gar dack, Why do you always make me? I'm like

cock and I would do that sixth grade. I mean, you know, ten years old and like not no ants in sight, not my mom, nobody because and my dad like gave me the swear not like you could swear. And from that moment on, I was like, done, this is what I do. That is a fantastic and I know, like that the Andrew Dice was I would say that Dave Chappelle of his time. He was just I mean

maybe that was just cerebral but super controversial. Where to the point was I mean, like, you know, I mean pretty misogynistic all the things that you know, we're growing getting past Jeffrey, but it's uh, I mean, well maybe that's why, you know, maybe that's why humor the geared towards eighth graders. So that was really it. I mean that was ten year old. You're a ten year old. You're a comic. I think you're loving the feedback. That

feedback is everything. And someone laughs at a joke. It's like someone cooking at dinner and saying this is the least and they clean their play. You like just you just want to do more and more and more and more. It's hard to get to that point, you know, right, like It's hard to gain the skills and experience to put a plate of food out there that people want to stop up, you know, with the last bit of

table bread. It's hard to get a routine in or whatever, the confidence to talk to a room of three people or three hundred people. But man, once you get there and you get the instant feedback in the response, you know, a laugh and a smile, the same as like a in a chew. So now you're on stage. You're in high school and performing. How cool is that? Mm hmm. I went to a high school, a big, very diverse, very just intense high school with a pretty amazing pedigree.

You know, we've had actors, comedians. Ray Kroc went to my high school. Ernest Hemingway went to my high school. You know, it's very historic, and it's kind of right on just the beginning of the western suburbs of Chicago, so shares a border with the city. So you get this immense diversity, and it's a big place to go to a freshman, and you just get chewed up if you don't have a pair on you or some confidence. I mean there's four floors, people throw pennies at you.

It's terrible. So I found I was like, I'm gonna go there and I'm doing like all the theater right, and so you get cast as a little bit part whatever. But I worked up pretty quickly, and that kind of gave you a safe space. I wasn't necessarily like a theater kid in high school, but I loved performing. Like

I didn't really hang out with the theater kids. I'm not like disparaging the theater kids, but if you want to high school, you know, if you want, And they did their own thing, and there were the true kids out there that were in it for that moment on stage, the art form. But you know, for me, it was I wanted the laughs. I wanted the comic roles. I wanted the accents all that stuff. So I guess I'm

lucky for having that such a young exposure. Even before that, my parents driving me to downtown to go to the Second City youth programs and learn improv from third grade on. You know, my dad saw me on stage at a third grade play. That's my son, that's my son. Well, you know my dad. If if you met Gus like you think like this is the father that's gonna throw

his kids into wrestling in football because big kids. The minute he saw me on stage and that you know whatever, crappy third grade play and I came out playing King George the Fourth with the spot on British accent and a capon in a in a crown. He was like, this kid, we're gonna push this, you know, we're gonna support it. Anything stagewise that would throw me into in our second course, I had to understand how Jeff's love for the performance translated into a career not just on

the stage but in the kitchen. He studied radio and television at Bradley University, where he actually began working behind the scenes. I didn't do like any on camera stuff. They're nothing. It was all editing, you know, shooting, lighting, sound, editing, and I was like more editing focus because it was a small program, but we had big, brand new building

they built. But a very old school news guy who like were a scarf, you know, like a ankerchif scarf and like a cowboy had but he was from nowhere in the West. He kind of taught us like how to edit. Well, so that's one skill I've really utilized in this stage of my life, is like how to edit video because we do it all the time on social media. For him, these reels and all these things, it helps to have a background knowledge. But I would, you know, you do all the pre requisites. I get

sees and everything. And I crushed the television stuff because you'd sit in an editing bay, you shoot the video, you do the news packages for the Bradley News program, and you're like the shooter and the editor. And I just like, I don't even want to shoot anymore. I just want to edit the video. I mean, I'd sit in a booth for like eight hours a day. You know, you smoke a little the bit, do you drink of the broco loots the next thing, you know, and so

midnight and you got the whole thing done. But I was also in a band my my entire four years. We're called Brother Ron, the only band on campus. And it was so weird because it's only kids, and it was in downtown Peoria, which was like full of bars, so there was Peoria bands, but we were the only Bradley band. We were the house band at the biggest bar every Wednesday, and we play all the other bars on the weekends. So I never had to ask my like my parents, like I made my own money playing

in a band. We rehearsed in the basement of the fraternity and we played covers. We had maybe about a dozen original songs that nobody really cared about, but of course they wanted to Rolling Stones Dave Matthews, Ben and I was a full time steward for the fraternity to make my room and board. So we ran the kitchen, did all the There was a you know, a chef quote unquote chef that would cook for the fraternity guys, and I would do all the shopping, cleaning, lay out

the food, make sure it's cleaned up after everything. And I loved it because I, you know, I worked in Delhi's way, you know, throughout high school and butcher shops and all that. So I was like pay for my board, room and board. So two thousand graduated and then came along a little musical called Tony and Teena's Weddings. So how did that happen? And how? I mean that was a big deal. It was a big deal. How did that? How did they get to you? They do like auditions

or do they call theater? Yeah, how did they do that? Well, it's really not a musical. It was dinner theater more like improv full immersion Italian American wedding. Right. We didn't sing, but there was like not like choreograph dancing, you know, most of it was improv. There were choreographed moments. But I started out in it because when I graduated college, right, I had this beautiful radio and television degree from a liberal arts college that you know, I paid off student

loans until I was you know, thirty two. Parents helped out. Of course, probably Gusts and Pam watching like anything, but like, you know, the old fashioned way. And I'm like, meanwhile, I'm looking for a job in TV. And my cousin Dave, he was a shot in the city for whatever train was executive shop. He's like, I want to get I want to open a Delhi. Come on board with me. I know, you know you've worked in Delhi's blah blah blah. You're creative. So next day we're ripping out, carpet, painting

the walls, doing everything. I'm building the menu from scratch. We're ordering all the meats and vegge and opening up. And then that same week we opened my dad's Like, hey, I met the producer of Tony and Tina's wedding. Do you want an audition? My dad was tremendous in helping me throughout my career as far as like setting up a stage for right, give me, supporting me, both him and my mom, not just my old man. So I'm like, yeah, So my dad's like, I'll line it up. And I'm like,

but I've never seen the show. I don't know what amditioning. He's like, oh, we'll go. I'll get his tickets too. So the irony is I went and auditioned on a Friday night. I was with Sarah back then too, so I was twenty one. I remember she came along like the second time she met my family. And I go to this room and it's a wedding hall. I mean it is a banquet that holds three d and fifty people, right, And there's a chapel next door, like a full chapel with pews and stained glass in a pulpit and all

that stuff. And I go audition right before they go on, like an hour or two, and I see the cast members kind of walking, and then he cleared this thing in the director Joey to Mosca, his brother Anthony's brother goes, all right, let's do some improv. You know. He's like kind of like a raliotic type guy. You know. I was like, really tough guy, let's see what you got. And I'm like, oh, I'm scared shitless. And they brought in some of the cast members and we did like

an hour of improv. And here I am auditioning for an Italian wedding, something I've been to four thousand times in my life. Full blooded Italian American Chicago. So I'm playing in a Chicago Italian American. I nailed it. They hired me right there and then like to open the doors and my family comes in and we sit down

and then we watched the show. It was awesome. But I started as a waiter for I don't know, six months, so we had to create our own character and stick with it and serve the food because it was dinner and the sausage, salad, pasta, and bread. And then finally he's like, okay, now you can be a groomsman, you know. And then he's like, okay, now you can be the

best man. So it took me a couple of years, but then I finally made it up to Tony after he made me lose weight and he said that, he said, you lose twenty pounds, you could be Tony and I lost, Like, So what was the was there a script? There were moments, there were beats in the show that there were lines right at the end in the church there are lines, and then the live band, live dancing, drinks, two bars. People are hammered right every offering you drugs. It was crazy.

It was like like when you hear about like SNL back in the day, you know what I mean, or like Second City because we're in the same building with Second City. So we see the Second City people and they turn their nose up at us, but we're like, screw you were getting paid, you know, I didn't make much at the at the end, I was making like sixty eight bucks a show, being the lead of the show. But I did that for four years in uh four years,

four years, seven shows a week. Mattenee's exhausting. Every other Wednesday was the daytime matinee for the Blue Haired crew. They bust them in from all like the old Folks Home, and it was so horrible. It's horrible. You know, it's a raucous drunk. You know, it's supposed to be lively when you have you know, hundred and seventy two ninety year olds watching you, I mean, like, when's the coffee? Why is there no coffee. It's kind of a ballsy premise to serve dinner and make that the show. It's

kind of like fantastic. At the same time, that's kind of hard because every time you don't know what to expect. The crowd could be like into it. The crowd could be not into it, the crackerld drink too much. They could like It's like, how does that work? How do you gather feedback from something that's so like live all the time. I don't know. Yeah, it's you know, every night was different. There were countless people too, who thought it was a real wedding like that we're kind of

duped into it and we were not. We would be fined if we broke character, like we would get severe trouble if they saw us talking to a family, even if we knew him. We had to stay in character. So we would do table work. So I think the greatest skill I got from that was working any room anywhere. I love that when we're at a live demo for a corporate audience, or at a food festival for a

drunken audience, whatever it's They're all different rooms. So I had to go to each table, work the table, make them laugh, boom boom boom, onto the next table, night after night, thirty six tables. That's incredible. So what what did you do during the day. I we worked at the deli. So I worked a full day at the die. Get their six in the morning, prep, make soup, make sauce is, then make sandwiches, do the caterings, have all

the people come in, serve them. Boom. I get in the car, go home, shower up, put on the white tucks, and go to Tony Tina's wedding till eleven o'clock every night every weekend. But it was a very successful play, like we were doing. I was there when eleven happened and that had a bit, you know, it kind of dropped off some of that crowd. But before that, I mean, you do three fifty at night, which is a lot. That's very impressive. I didn't know it was for four years.

It's exhausted. I mean if I was you know, four, I mean, if I was forty four, it i'd be very, very tired. Back then, it was like, Okay, I like what I'm doing during the day, I'm very fulfilled. I'm working in the Delhi, I'm slicing me I'm talking to customers all day, and then I go get to be a professional comedian at night. I was like, I'm doing it. I'm making it. I was doing it, you know what I mean, Like I was living the dream, but I just wasn't making any money at anything. I mean, and

that's you cannot expect it to. I mean, so you so you said, Okay, I'm gonna take I'm taking Tony, I'm taking the salami, and I'm going to l a exactly, It's exactly what I had in my car. You wanted to do your own show. So tell me about that show and how did that? How did that come about? Well, my cousin who supported you, So Sarah did, of course because she's a nurse. So she got a nursing contract job that moved us across the country and put us

in a foot woman. Of course, right, we were engaged at the time and I'm like, let's do this move and she was she supported it. But my cousin Joe Ballerini, who is a very successful screenwriter filmmaker. Were the same age, Like, so I was twenty four right, making six day bucks a show, making thirty dollars a day at the deli, and he's like selling scripts for like six hundred grand, and I'm like holy, and he's like, come on out, we can do something. I'm like, dude, are you sure.

He's like, no, come and visit. We'll shoot a pilot. We'll do the food pilot. We'll start pitching around. He's like, I got context. I'm crushing it. So I was like, okay. So, I mean the night I moved Sarah and I moved right and we're out with Joe. He introduced me to my buddy, my first friend out there, who is his friend. He went to USC film school with Ali Khan. So Ali and I became fast friends, and we're like, let's

do this thing. We're gonna shoot these wild gonzo parties in the hills at my cousin Joe's house in the hills, and we'll edit them and we'll put some music and we'll put it on YouTube. And that YouTube was like non existent then, and then we'll pitch it to networks and production companies and we'll get a deal and we'll make it. And we did that. We did all that for three years, and we had chef Jeff and Ali. We had a couple of sizzles. We had a pilot. We shot a pilot that we never saw with the

production company. We had representation from U t A, which is a big, amazing out there. We were in rooms with Spike TV, MTV. We were never in Food Network. Kay, they probably like, look at these two schloves. It was like, no, this is not our demographic. But we hustled it. Man. We did everything all the while I was I was in the groundlings doing improv all the way up to the writing lamp, getting on stage there writing and producing my own sketch comedy shows with all my other friends

that moved in comics from Chicago. We're called the beef Stand and we just we did all this and that was It was just grind, grind, and no after no after no. Like everything was a no, right, every single thing. It was never a yes. And I was like, I'm sick of this. If I want to be taken seriously, I need to go to culinary school. I need to take the food seriously, I'm working on the other chops. I need to work on these chops and meet myself in the middle. I'm never gonna I never wanted to

be the best chef in the world. I never was going to be the funniest comic in the world. But I could be the funniest chef in the world. If I stick on that, I'll create an angle. I'll do it with sandwiches and my love from the deli world. And so that's what I did. I rolled over. I said to Sarah, and good, let's go. I'm gonna go and roll in. That culinary school is called um There's a Court on Blue affiliate in Hollywood called the Kitchen Academy.

It was a year program, and I worked full time, went to school every night for six hours and you don't get out of there until midnight after cleaning for three Like that's what they don't tell you go to culinary school. You're cleaning matts. It's like, Biggs, I'm like, oh my God, and I'm like yelling at these kids right because I'm in my mid twenties and and I'm really ready. I never gave a ship about school until I paid for it fully myself and I was like,

I'm getting these, man, and I loved it. I mean I loved every minute. I learned a ton and I sharpened those skills, and I worked in restaurants, I staged, I did my extern chips, and by the time I was graduated, I auditioned for the first time for Food Network Start while in l A and I got a callback, like my first callback for our third course. I wanted to hear more about that callback, which was just the beginning of Jeff's journey to breaking through in the industry.

Even though he eventually won season seven of Food Network Star, his first audition was for a spot on season four. Things seem promising at first. When the Food Network producer called Jeff back after his first audition with some good news. He's like, dude, you're a shoeing. It's like you got this. And I'm like, hey man, I hate to break it to you, but I'm already scheduled to move back home in like six weeks or whatever. So he's like, hey man,

it's a problem. You can do this from anywhere. So we moved back home and I was like, I'm gonna go home. My soul is going to be back in Chicago and I'm gonna get the third call back and I'm gonna get on the show. I did everything I could, and it was just like the Cosmos being like, you just need to be where you are with your family, ready to start your own family. You know, we were married at the time. We didn't want to start a family, but it's hard to do out in l a if

you don't have a pot to pisson. And then I never got a call back, like never. A couple of months went on, and then it was December, which was like I don't know, six months, five months after I moved back home, and I got a call and it was Jennifer Sullivan. She's like, they want to fly you out to New York next week for the final round of auditions in Audition and Food Network Studios Chelsea Market. I'm like, wow, that's when it was back then. Yeah. I was like, I did it. I made it. I'm done.

I made it, mom, I'm going to the big times. I got the call, so I went there. You know, I sat and waited in Chelsea Market next to the Lobster Place, and that right there, chugging coffee, smelling wet lobster and seafood terrible. It was terrible. That that's a terrible corner. Oh and I'm like, oh my god, am I gonna get the job? And I killed him. I swear I got a standing ovation and I was the last one of the night. I missed my flight, so I got on the plane early next day. You know,

it's like a connecting flight through Atlanta. They put me in a hotel in Queen's. Only the finest right, only the finest thing. So but it was my first time in New York. For me, it was like, you know, my Mary Tyler more moment. I'm like taking a subway to Type Square and twirling about and I'm waiting. I mean, I waited by the phone for months, and then I finally called the I had the number on my phone. She's like, yeah, we're sorry, someone should have called you.

You didn't make the show. And I was crushed. And then the next year I was like, let's give it a shot. So I threw in a video. Nothing. Year after that, like I'll give it one more shot. Nothing. And then the fourth time I was like, I'm gonna give it one more shot. And I remember I didn't tell Sarah. I was auditioning again, sending in a video. Right in Sarah's like, did you send in a video to Food Network star this year? And I'm like, yeah,

I did. She's like, well, we should have talked about this. I'm like wow, She's like, I don't know, man, I think this is it and this is the year. I'm like, you don't know nothing about me. I only fail, you know. I'm like, I'm only It's gonna be another no. But by that time I was I was running a cafe and a building. I was a private show for a large mortgage company, so I'd feed three people a day, had a couple of people under me. It was an

ideal job. I got paid decently, great hours, making sandwich, just slice in meat. You know, it's like my own deli. Right, It's like no risk on my end, It's perfect. I sent in the video and then I got a call back like a day later. It happened so quick. And then they're like, tomorrow, we're putting you on a plane back to New York for the final rounds of auditioning. And then I went there and I did the whole thing. Background check, have you ever smoking? Prostitute? Have you what

drugs have you done? Have you ever hit somebody? I'm like, yeah, I punched a guy a couple of years, probably not listening. It was outside my cousin's restaurants. That doesn't count. It was scrubbed. But before I got on that plane, she goes, you know you're gonna make the show. You get on that plane and make that show, and you're gonna get on the show in our lives are gonna change forever. I'm like, God, no way, right, And she was so right, because I got off that plane and then it's all

happened in like six days. It was so fast, right, all this pent up energy for like it to happen so quick. And they're like, you were flying you out January twenty one. I'll never forget the date. You're gonna give up all your crap, all your phones, everything, and you're gonna live in this house for two and a half months, and you're gonna do the show. And if you win, you win, you win this. If you don't, you can't say nothing for three months and blah blah blah.

You know, so obviously I I went and I ended up winning, And Sandwich said Sandwich King right, and I knew if I had a good point of view, and that point of view was like I was trying to carry it through all those other auditions and I was like, this is it. In the moment, I kind of like

set it out loud the first challenge. I think people are like, damn, I should have thought of that, you know, and when you know, because nobody, nobody staked that claim yet that was all mine and nobody said I'm I'm gonna teach the fundamentals of queling area through the artistry of sandwich creation with a sense of humor. So in reality was it was Tony and Tina's wedding. But for real, you were like working the tables every night and there was no problem. It sounds like it was the easiest

thing you've ever done. Really, I mean, because I know you and it was like, I'm just gonna make something up. I'm gonna go with it. Yeah, So you won season seven and how was that? Like, what was the prize and what was the back I don't remember what the prize was back then. Today, Cash, I'll tell you that much. It was it was a show. I got a six

episode season of Sandwich King that premiered. So the irony is because of our ND eight we had to go back to work as normal, like we couldn't quit our jobs. Of course, if we got fired, it was one thing, but especially since I won, They're like, you have to go back to work. You have to pretend everything is normal in your life. I was like, I've been going.

People are gonna think I was at rehab or that joined, you know what I mean, Like I'm not from like a place where people like, where were you went to to the Kenny Bunkport for the summer? No? You know, did you winter in Palm Springs? No? I went to you know, it was like either rehab or prison, that's the only option. So people were like, where the hell

do you go? I was like, so my excuse was and it was the only Johnny improviser here, right, I was like, Oh, I went to learn uh saloon me crafting with Mario Batalli in New York City and may or may not have been filmed. I swear that's what I said, which I thought was pretty good considering like it was like, oh, that sounds like pretty cool, and I can understand why he went to go do that

for so long. But uh. And then when it was finally announced, the cast was finally announced, it was like, Okay, I can breathe, I can stop lying about this fracta so you know, Suli Maria Adventure. But then for the next thirteen weeks, everybody's like, did you win? Do you win this week? Do you go home this week? You can tell me. Come on, we know each other, Just tell me you win, Just tell them. Oh so much of that. And then by the end, I was like,

I'm done. Like I remember, I was supposed to leave. My last day was on a Friday. The finale was on a Sunday of Food Network Star. I didn't make it pass launch on Thursday. I just walked out. The owner screwed me, and he told a local news outlet, two of them that I won already, and they interviewed me, and I spent my last day at work in a conference room with the company's legal team in Food Networks legal team fanning me with a lawsuit because I preached

my n d A, which I didn't. Why would I mean, I made it that far. I'm not gonna tell the guy in the last day that I won, especially the news that team was not taking it many people. I had the same issue with Iron Chef, who was six months and it was like, really, you know, how do you contain that it's Kali. It's like your static right, You're like, wow, are you like you don't even know what's going on. For our fourth and final course, I wanted to ask Jeff about his latest book and how

he's passing time at home during the pandemic. But first Jeff and I reflected I wanted his like to launch The Kitchen, which we co host together along with Sonny Anderson, Alex Gornas, Shelley, Katie Lee, and myself. Your wife was right, she said you're gonna do this, is gonna change our lives, and it did. And then you got a call for I think it was too that I'm fourteen for the Kitchen. Yeah, I remember Jesus Man ten years. So we got the call.

I was at the restaurant and I'm sitting there and I get this call and I'm like, oh my god's the network And there's like, well, the network calling you is the double edged sword. It's good or bad. It's never like how you doing, let's talk. It's always like why did you do this? Or here's a new job, so it's like you never know what it's gonna be, or you're being fired or something. So and I we auditioned for that show, and I remember, I'm like, I had a feeling I was going to be in the show,

you know what I mean. I've auditioned enough in my life for stuff. I knew when I get the job, and I knew I got the job for this, And then they kind of told me that much. And I'm like, well, who else is in there? Like, oh, they're still piecing together a couple of the other ones. I'm like, well, who am I being? They're like Sunny. I'm like done, I go perfect Joys like Katie. I'm like, oh, that would be great. I didn't know where at the time. And then I was like please because we auditioned to

gethers with Jeffrey. I'm like, dude, it is a classic trope, right, it's the straight man the funny man. It's been done because it works, and it'll work in this format in the network. I don't think there's no natural pairing that works like that, and it's all new for them. They've

never done this sort of thing. But man, I was so happy when I was like they told me you were involved and that all happened on that call, and I was like, it was very nerve nerve racking because it was like, oh my god, what's my schedule going to be? Like now, how much am I going to be away from home? Is it going to be? It might be gone for a month, you know what I mean. Like that's like a whole another People don't realize, Yeah, the work's great, but all my work takes me away

from home. So that's like you're excited, but you're also nervous because you have this family that depends on you. Like we got used to not going anywhere. It was awesome and like being at home, like you genuinely love your family. I love my family. I don't want to, you know, but it only it doesn't get easier. And I'll remember I was remember auditioning with you, and I remember that Katie, and I remember Marcella, and I remember

there are so many other characters. I think there were five or six auditions which I was I was un chopped and I was like, oh yeah, they're gonna call me. Oh yeah, I'm in, you know, And that was no and not it. It was like you got audition. Oh my audition, I said, Okay, I thought I was like I thought it was like a look see, Well that was just stupid of me. But I also thought it was a fantastic group of people. And you know they they got it right. I told Karen and I told Beth,

I'll produced the first time. After the first show, I think this is gonna last a long time because I said, it's authentic and we don't even need it. We don't need the script, and we would like pissed that they have a script, like get that. Just give me the sandwich, will make it. That's fine. We know what to do. And that's what today people don't realize about that show is there's really no script because we're all very authentic at what we do and don't know how to do it.

I know the producers have to produce it and they have to get the beats in, but it's a very free willing show, which I think is why people like it, because it makes you and everyone who has a personality

they can be themselves. And I think that's why you you bring to the show, this sense of like freewheeling fund that that you've learned your stuff and like going back to see what you did working Tony and Tina's and doing the Delhi and then doing Sandwich King and now coming on and basically this must have been like a layup because it's like you're doing one of six parts and like I gotta rest for five parts that this is easy. It really is, and it's not laziness.

It's the enjoyment of the give and take of an ensemble. Like to me, I was like, you know, I'm a vitual class clown. You've been you know, in quote unquote classrooms with me enough Jeffrey, where you know I thrive in that space. And this was like I'm getting paid to be a class clown. I mean, like literally, how would I So you know, I didn't want to mess it up. I don't. I wanted to do my part,

be serious about the food obviously. But at the end of the day, it's like the show gets better because we're all evolving along with it in growing having children and family. Katie you know, evolved to a marriage and then being a mother on her own. In bringing on Alex is like this whole different viewpoint. I mean, it's it's such a fun journey and you know, you know, I believe you're right. I concur with you that this

show will last a very long time. Yeah, it's just it's one of those things you can't not watch it. You know, it's like Entourage or the Sopranos, and the Sopranos stopped. They stopped because they had to. If it didn't have to, it still would have been on because it's very topical and it's you relate to it, and that's why I think the show works. So you're here, this is one you just published an incredible book, Come on over, which is I've read it and it's so you.

And I think the first time I saw the jacket with you with the phone and I was like, this is so perfect. And I think that, you know, we used to review all the time because you know, everybody had a book on the show. I didn't have a book. You don't have a book, And it was like so mean but so funny, but it makes so much sense. It's it's perfect. Yeah, it's a bear man, it's you know. I think why I didn't have a book until this

year was the work involved. I mean, I was busy enough to I want to add more like sitting down writing time, which is hard to find, and I knew I wanted to make it great and there was nothing. When that title came to me, I was like, now I can write this book. I know what this book is going to be about. Who's in a homage to and what recipes will be in there, and what stories And it just flew out of me quickly. I mean

not quickly. I mean it takes two years from start to finish to get a book on the shelves from the inception of it. And I wrote this book. I mean, like the head notes some are very lengthy, two pages long, which might be a little much, but I don't know, and I wanted to get the stories. Now It's like you publish a book and you're like, hey, I can make the next one even better because I know how to write a cookbook now, be I have so many more recipes and stories that I want to put out there.

So I'm not saying I want And of course, what's better than a cookbook? Two cookbooks? So what's happening? What's what's on the horizon for you? I see you're surrounded by the instruments. You're a very prolific musician. You love music, and on the set you're always playing. Much of the chagrine of some of your co hosts to listen to you play the same fucking rift four times. I know. I'm so sorry. During they had me in a separate room and they moved my room temporarily, they said, because

I was so loud playing guitar and singing. So I apologize. It keeps me fresh, you know, when I can. Part of my job right is to be quick as quick as humanly possible on that show, right, like to come up with that singer as quick as possible. I keep myself tight by playing the music in between. But yeah, I mean I play every day. I have a band. They were just over yesterday. We were rehearsing, and we play out. We've had We've had three gigs so far. I love it. And they're all guys that live blocks

from me. It's a basement dad band I call ourselves. All our sons are friends. By the way, they're all the same age, so we party together no matter what. We might as well play music. My model in the house is, you know, we create something every day here, whether it's a podcast or a song or whatever. Just use our creative spirit. Anyway possible, and this just adds to that and it makes me happy. It's my thing.

We could talk all day, because we we always talk all day, but it's the pleasure to spend an hour with you. You're the best. You know, Thank you too. You know, everybody listening Jeffrey is my Everybody asked you who's your who's your greatest mentor? And I always answer you and you're like, well, that's you know, obviously you're just being I was like, no, you're You're somebody most definitely to look up to, and I mean that. Thank you,

jeff Thank you for spending time. Have a fantastic afternoon and a great weekend. Ma man fucko, thanks very much for listening to Four Courses with Jeffrey Zcurian, a production of I Heart Radio and Corner Table Entertainment. Four Courses is created by Jeffrey Zcurian, Margaret Scarrion, Jared Keller, and Tara Helper. Our exact producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Four Courses is produced by Jonathan Haws Dressler. Our research is conducted

by Jesselyn Shields. Our talent booking is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent This episode was edited and written by Priya Mahadevan and mixed by Joe Tistle. Special thanks to Katie Fellman for help as recording engineer. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.