Dominique Ansel on Paris, Work Ethic, & The Cronut!

push forward. My guest for this episode has spent more than twenty years in the highest pressure positions in the world of pastry, has recently built a brand new workshop to teach and produce his blend of precise and creative baking, and he may be the very first chef to ever have one specific pastry go viral and become a cultural phenomenon. Without further delay, Please enjoy my conversation with Chef Dominique on cell Chef Jeffrey going, you're definitely busier than I am.

I don't know if that's true, but it's going great. I've been pretty busy for sure. Thank you for taking this time. My gosh, I haven't seen your spoken to you in so long. Yes, I know, and that's just YouTube. For my first course, Dominick explains his humble beginnings from living with a big family on a single income to learning century all techniques for corssant making. Right. My mom was a terrible cooking she was. She was bad. Oh my gosh, how is that possible? You know, not just

not because she's French, that's she's good at cooking. She just didn't like it. No, I think that that's pretty bad for me to think that, But I think it. All French women are good at cooking. I mean, come on, my mom was not. She was maybe one of the existion and you know, but my girldmo was good. She was not like exceptional, but she was good. She enjoyed cooking, and you know, it's probably one of the things that

got me to become a chef. Actually, like spend some time in the kitchen when I was younger, because I couldn't stand eating my mom's food. Oh wow. Not because the quality of the food she was buying was bad, just because the way she was cooking was bad and she didn't enjoy it at all. So, and your dad was busy working my dad was working. He was working in a factory, and it was always pulling like books and cookbooks and looking at recipes and I was like

excited about it, but like eating better. I guess I grew up very humbly. I only had one salary of a factory walker, which was like pretty much a minimum wage living on a family of you know, six people plus the grandma. At some point, my cousins lived with us, and the dogs, the cats and everything else that it was.

It was a strange time. You know. We didn't always have like a lot of food on table, and not always enough at the end of the month because there you know, in France, you get paid once a month and you have to manage very carefully your your money so you have it until the end of the month, which was not always a case for us. But you know, like they made me grow up like humble and careful with that money, with that food at not Westing as well.

You were born north of Paris, but it seems that Paris was sort of the thing that, like everyone else, was sort of your very major commitment to the pastry world. And you went and worked with an incredible I know, I know the pastry shop is just there's so many of them, by the way, people don't understand. And France there's all these amazing artisanal pastry shops and bakers that each one of them have their own incredible story, and each one of them are you know, the degree of

excellence is extraordinary. So describe this sort of place. It's one of the oldest in Paris, and describe sort of always struck by the smell and the sort of how tight the quarters were and how hard it was, and how difficult that they exist in conditions that today would be like brutal. You know, we would never you would never work in those conditions because you know, the stairs had no treads, there was water everywhere. You had one square meter to work and it was and you're like, what,

how is this possible? Exactly? So, yeah, when I came back from my military service, I'm from a small town. For us, like it's not just like kind of like charming, beautiful town like people getting picture in France. It's it's you know, I grew up in a project. My parents had no money. I grew up you know, like very humbly. So when I came back, I decided I didn't want this life. I didn't want to stay there, and I was a young kid with like big dreams. I decided

to go to the big city. And I had about two thousands loss of saving which I had saving like four years, and that's what I had. I went to Paris. I found a tiny little card that was falling apart, which I bought, and I was driving from my hometown to Paris, which was about like an how and and a half drive back and forth. I found myself like completely lost in the big city driving around. Everything was going too fast. People were talking to fast, driving too fast.

There was so many streets. Everything was going like crazy for me, but you know, I like the energy. I started dropping up resumes driving around being lost. Every time big we will pop my car and drop off resume. Eventually got a bunch of job offer. I landed a job in Pelty. So Pelty is one of the oldest pistry shop in Paris. It was it's closed now unfortunately, beautiful pistry shop. Everything like handmade, and you know, it's a life and pressure test. I started my job there.

I remember that I did my trail. The person I was in charge called me in a corner of the kitchen. Towards the end of my trail, he was like, do you see the guy there? I was like yes, I was like, okay, you just started a week ago. I was like, okay, it's like it's you or it's him. You want a job, you can do it really subtle. Yeah, no filters. So of course I did a good job and I started started immediately and to this letter, the guy that was there, I was gone, oh my gosh,

so I took his job. I guess I was working making questions there. First thing. Yeah, the first day and first the only thing I did during my time. They spent a year there. The most beautiful cossan I probably ever seen. So the technique for making the costs on there, I was really unique and really special. So regular corssando, you'll make the door and then you will have a block of butter that you put in the center. That's how I then you do your fall. Yeah, that's the

classical way. So the way that we were doing it there is that we have the door, we have the butter that we split in half. The butter is pliable, it's a room temperature, so you pretty much like spread it into your hands until it's a pliable and you put it with your fingers and you rub it along the door, so you're putting you in your hands almost like play dough, and describe the butter onto the door and you make a thin you create a thin layer.

It's a sort of like weird as a technique. And even now thinking about it, even not talking about them, like what were we doing it this way? I have never seen question that beautiful. So we're doing in the first time for doing a fold, putting in the fridge. Now later we're doing the same thing one more time with the second half of the better and that's it.

And this is the most honestly the most beautiful question was in even you know, like throughout the years I've been doing this for like almost thirty years, I tried to replicate the same technique with similar ingredients. I was never able to Wow, So I'm not sure what it was exactly. I think it has to do with, you know, the type of flower use, the type of better use. And at the time, you know, I don't remember what type. I still have the recipe, I don't remember what type

of ingredients were using. This is you should do a dominic workshop. You should have just a room dedicated to figuring that out. That's that's more than dedication passion. It takes like ours to do. But I can tell you like they're they were really beautiful gus On. So what who developed that? It was missed up Peltier at the time. I mean he opened the shop, I believe in the late Yeah, he developed this technique, probably because back then,

you know, we're not making pluques of butter. We had had the big cases of butter and you wanted to find a way to make it thin and later, So I believe it's him. I'm not even sure what the technique is coming from, but I know it was very unique technique, very time consuming technique, but the result was like really unique and special. For my second course, Dominick explains what he learned from rising to the top of one of Paris's most respected bakeries while I was still

in his early twenties. So after after you left particulately Peltier, you went to Sean directly. At the time, it's what everyone was doing, right. You walk into the shop, you asked if the chef is here, and she's like, do you have an opportent? It was like, no, but I have reasume I'm looking for a job. So the chef took me to the office like by the way, I asked me a bunch of questions. He was like, can you start Monday? And I was like, uh, okay. So

I started that Monday. I remember exactly September one. I was one of thirty people higher the same day, which I was not aware of, the call us all in the room. They told us that they will keep only three people at the end of the four months. When they told us to got to keep chen and show show our best. Two weeks before the end, so towards the end of December, they call us all in the room. There was a few lists of us already because some

of the back quit, but still a good like. Plus, they told us that they didn't have any three spots for us. They only had one. And I think two days before the end, the chefs called me in the office and they told me they want to keep me. Wow, were you like experienced in savory at Fauchan or just they we were you working with station? Were you working everything? No? I was in pastry department and the pastory of the department was about like thirty people in normal time. Thirty

that's a that's a large department, that's a lot. Yeah, and I started as a pastry cook, so I started from zero. I was promoted as chef the party after eight months. So chef the party, you're in charge of the station was just made to be. It was it was made that this was what you were going to be doing your whole life. Yeah. I was twenty years old, my guy, and at that time was unsure if I

want to do it. And I was in charge of six people already, So at six people under me, after two years, I was promoted to a sous chef position. I was still one of the youngest. I was promoted as a chef there. So I had a d twenty people under me. I was twenty four years old. So things that just doesn't happen with me very fast, that doesn't doesn't happen. That does not happen. I mean, but a hundred people you're working for it. So did you

move around Paris? Did you move from did you go open up a store, come back, open up another store, come back? How does that happen? So I was I was doing a lot of things there. I was in charge of the many development and the production. So I was just in between. And that's the trickiest part because I mean, first, most of the stuff were older than me, probably ninety five per some of the stuff was older than me. Yeah, they don't like that, right, No, I

didn't like that. They don't like the young kid that comes tell me what to do. But I had to find my way. I actually get a lot of respect from the team. I was very kind, very supportive and very very honest with them. So I always like implement new recipes and we changed like pretty much everything in the kitchen. So it was hard, it really for like an old school like French chef to listen to younger chef and to change everything, and and to listen to

like which way they wanted to be done. And what did you when you say you change everything? I mean obviously for Sean has these amazing recipes that are like a century old, probably what was wrong with them? But nothing was wrong. We just changed the entire menu, so new creations, new menu of course, some new tools, some new techniques, some new ingredients. So I have to retrain everyone on everything and that the scene was used to

do in a certain way. So I was the one who was in charge of like changing them along with with the menu. Who is your mentor? Who who is that person that you went to and said, what am I doing wrong? What am I I don't like what I'm doing right now? Or I like what I'm doing. I just want to do better. That's a very interesting question. Unfortunately, I've never had this person. I've never one had, never had someone out to look up to, someone to ask advice to, someone to guide me, someone to like put

me back on track. I mean I learned the hard way. I learned also the most like humble way to to work with people and and to listen to them. There were people like that didn't want to change anything for anyone, even for execut chef. They were like screaming contest and the kitchen and they will send me to change them, to ask them to change something because they know they

couldn't do it. I will go and you know, just like with myself, and I was still telling them what I want to do and why I want to do this way. I will come earlier walk with them, and they were like just follow my lead naturally because I was, you know, a soft spoken and I was hard walking, but you're also a gentle and you you know, when someone doesn't want to do something, you you took the time to explain why the reasoning behind it is. And you don't have to do that. You could come and say,

I'm your boss, I'm just telling you to it. Yeah, that's what I was happening the kitchen. That's that wasn't up walking. You know, as you get older and as you what you're doing now is you're probably the most remarkable mentor in the world because you didn't have it right. And I see myself as always going the extra level. Let me let me explain to you for the fourth time why this is the way it is, because it's important to let they need to know this for their future.

You're not doing it for yourself, You're doing it for them. It's just I think it breeds a different human being, right, I think so completely. It's it's it's a matter of like maturity and personality. You have to be humble, you have to be kind two people, and you have to be able, you know, like I said, listen, be able to listen only like takes you like so far. And you know, after after two years doing this, I was traveling for the brand opening shops around the world. Where

was that? Like? That was amazing? I loved it. I love traveling. I love discovering new cultures and meeting new people. It was really really hard, for example, again into Russia to open as on there, I had a translator by translators stay therefore day one, the next day she didn't show up. Apparently she was fired. I was told that a new translator was coming and never seen a translator again.

Oh my gosh. So I got hard. At the time a small a Russian and French dictionary, learning a little bit of Russian, so I would communicate this way with them. But it was that was tough. That was really tough when you have to like put up like like a

whole new menu trend. People be so specific and technical and scientific, but but making and what's it like on the first day you do your test opening and you everything is in the display case and all the team looks and feels so proud of going from zero to this amazing array of desserts, and then you open to

the public. I mean, it's it's amazing, you know, like still with every opening we do know day still feel the same feeling the feeling of pride, accomplishment of like building something together, the feeling of like team spirit, you know, like this little family that you build at all so much walk and and you know, sleepless like nights, and

it's it's so much work. It's so much intense, you know, I know when people come the happy, the winksto must come the happy, they buy staff, they eat it, you know, they go home. For us, it's like, you know, month and month of building of like fighting, of like it's a lot of commitment. It's so much walk. Yeah, And what people don't understand when you see your friend and that day one or two of the opening, it looks

like they're ready for the hospital. Yes, and they're excited, but they just they they just haven't slept in four weeks maybe more. It takes a good six months before they start to look themselves again. For our third course, Dominic and I discuss something that we have in common

working for the legendary chef Danielle Blue. So when you finally came to New York in two thousand, I think it was six, right, that's right, and you went to work for Danielle, you'd already opened stores in different countries. I mean, you have such an incredible experience that most pastry chefs would only dream of having. And honestly, you know, when you when you enter that world of corporations, you rarely come out of that world. You stay there because

it becomes comfortable. There's nothing wrong with that. You might want to be a family, you might want to work, you know, a five day week instead of a seven day week. But it's very unusual to sort of jump out of that world in a successful way and parachute into a completely different experience and going back to just focusing on one restaurant, on one person. Why Danielle and why New York. Well, at the time, I wasn't for Sean for eight years and that's a long time. That's

a long time. And I've done I mean a group from a young kid to being the coporate pistry chef to traveling the world opening shops. You know I have, I've learned so much, Like that's one of my best life experience. I have to say, not just walk, but life and I want something new. I wanted I was always excited about traveling, and I always wanting to live in different countries. So of course, New York for any any French kid, I guess it's just like the city

of dream and opportunities. So I wanted to come to New York and this came. I came to me Danielle I know, Daniel called me, which hadded for almost two hours on the fun you know. I told him that I had no experience really walking in in a finning restaurants at this pastry level. And I came to New York and I know I did a testing for him, and I had prepared for me like five or six desserts plus at fools and a tremor and some of the stuff. I was giving the first plate, clear everything out.

It looks like he wasn't joying himself. I bring the second desserts. I remember like standing up next to him. He was sitting down eating the is and he looked up at me. He was like, so when can you start thrown off that? Excuse me? It was like when can you start with us? Was like, oh, do you want to finish the testing first? And I was like, my job of her right there? Right. Eight weeks later, I was in New York City. I had sold everything I had in friends, closed all my bank account, left

my apartment everything. I was in New York City with two suitcases, you know, like a photo album, a few pieces of clothing. I came to New York in a small apartment in Queen's And which was not too far from Danielle. I had no bed for like probably like three months because I was walking at Danielle every day. So when I started Danielle, I was like full steam

right away. I would walk probably like sixteen to eighteen hours a day, yep, because I need to catch up and I wanted to do well, and I didn't have to to buy a bed, so I'll sleep on on the sofar for three months before I could buy a bed. Very humbling experience again. And I came to Danielle. I thought I knew so much. I thought I was as so strong as bass chef. I have to tell you, I got my ass kicked for sure. You know, I

was a little bit. I was very French. The way of walking, kitchen, the way of discipline, the team they were working with them, and that didn't work so well beginning. I had to adapt and adjust myself to the team to really like listening to people. People didn't have as much skills as much experience. They were not in the kitchens don't work the same at all, So I have to like retrain myself to walk with this team. I've

learned a lot, you know. I've learned how to make a canal with a spoon there, which I didn't know how to do. I've learned. But seasonality, I've learned so much with Danielle. Of course, it's like I mean talking about mentor is probably one of my mentor. I look up to him, you know, the way he went his business, the way he treats his guests and the stuff is I mean, it's just inspiring, you know. I work with Danielle.

I still remember like people would telling me, You're like, oh, it's gonna be tough, are you sure you can do it? Then you know, it's really tough at work, Like it's very hard to work with him. And the more I was getting closer to get a job and coming to new the more people will tell me that. And that gave me like the passion and the commitment to do better and to prove anyone wrong. So my first year Danielle was not the easiest. It was just like adapting

myself speaking in your language in your country. Nice a restaurant's to late hours. It's a whole new team. There's a lot that goes through your mind when you just arrived from from France and you very speak English. I work with Daniel as well, but the wonderful thing I remember is the New York City. It is difficult, like you have a basket of any ingredient could possibly want to work with. Danielle is what you work with. Whatever

you want, just make something delicious. It's no, there's no no, really, it's just if you do it, do it. I would say, what do you think about this? He goes, well, show me, let me taste it. And it was never that's not how we do things. It was just the opposite. And that's a very unusual for a French chef. I worked to a lot of friend chefs that were like, this is not the way we do things here, and I go, okay, and you just stop this. Daniel was the opposite. He goes,

what do you think? He would ask me. In my opinion, I'm like, are you talking to the guy? You're talking to me? That's true, that's he meant it. He always asked people what they think and I remember like my my time and Daniel. I spent six years there. The first year I was a little bit lost because I was a pastry chef that walk in a retail in a retail shop, and I had to adjust changed completely and find my style into fine dining. So it took

me a while to to get it. You know, it took me like over a year to really find my style and started like enjoying myself and developing desserts that were like more intricate, more seasonal, more plated desserts. It's it's a different way of walking. But remember after you had to probably Daniell start giving me more and more freedom, and I find my way to walk with him, which I think a lot of shifts like have hard time to do. I spent six years of Daniel before opening

my own bakery. We are like the third mission and style together, best restaurant in the country, like all these awards that was. That was some amazing years, I have to say. And it's also you know, you're working in pastry and then you have you're not worrying about savory. Now you're worrying about savory, and there's you know, the savory is talking to you and your desserts are going out after the savory and You're like, they have to speak to each other. It has to make sense. It

takes time for that, it really does. And I think pastry is is changing so much because now people a lot of people aren't eating pastry at the end of the meal. It's very difficult to navigate. I'm finding that you have to really be more creative and more supple and more different in your approach to pastry. And I know Daniel very much is aware of that, and he's

like that in every course, not just pastry. What have you changed since two thousand six to you left in two thousand twelve as far as the distinctiveness of how people look at dessert, you know, you say something very important, you say, savory has to speak to pastry, and that's so right, so right on, it's so important you A style of pastry is a continuity of a meal. So whatever the chef cooks, you have to be aligned with the style of you know, finishing, plating, flavors, excitement in

the plate. There's is so many restaurants where like the food is good and then when he gets this is like a big drop a big let down. And you know, I get white people sometimes I don't really want to eat desserts because if you satisfy with the food, you don't want to end up on the bad last last note. But I know, and you're right, daniel is very aware of this. For him, that that was so important as important as the food the rest of the food. He was always the one in a pastry kitchen with me

tasting the food. It was always like giving feedback, So he knew how important it was. And I think throughout the years, so I really find a way to find my style, developed my menu, and the way I was working with the sets aligned with his food. And that's what, you know, got us to all this beautiful accomplishment at Danielle. And I know I left something there and people still talk about my time there. And after six years, you know, I told myself that and needed more challenge and I

always dreamed about the opening my own shop. For my final course, I have to hear all about how Dominiqu's culinary creation the chrow nut became the first ever pastry to go viral and the surprising effect that it had on him and his team. So how did you find the location of your restaurant and your pastry shop. I mean, I remember the first time I walked in there. I was struck by how small it was. I thought you were gonna do a very grand Folcan type thing, and

you decided the other way. And you know what, you're very smart because John George did the same thing. He took Jojo, which is a tiny little place, and he just made it magnificent because he could watch every single thing. He told me that I could see everything with one eye and I don't have to move with my kitchen. So why that location in the village of all places. I had been looking for a place, and at the same time, you know, I was looking for investors. I

was looking for people to help me out financially. I had a meeting with my designer and contractor and he saw this place that was empty and give me a caller that kid displaced empty you want to check it out, and you know the cold booker like when you see the space. I walk into the space, I was like, that's it, this, this is it, this, this is perfect

for me. Not too big and nice little garden the back a greenhouse, you know, cooler downstairs, very small place of work, but how was like, maybe I should start on my own. So I put in my savings, I signed the lease. I give my resignation to Daniel, which she was not happy, but come on six years yeah, and after I give a resignition and believed me a lot. But seven weeks later I opened the bakery seven weeks seven weeks so in the process, I dried my girlfriend

at the time, my wife now Amy. She was a food writer for the Worster Journal in Hong Kong, and I told her that, you know, my need help, I'm going to start this. She came over to help me, and she's helped me since then. And she's, I mean, the most beautiful and most powerful woman I've ever seen. She's inspiring, creative, smart, and she you know, I would have never done it without her. So the both of us we hire four people, two cooks and two barrista

and we opened this shop. We were so innocent, so we weren't from there, from you know, from this tenny, little big creat to what it is today. It's just amazing. I remember walking by there's a glass front towards the back where you could see the chef working yourself, and I mean that's my kids, and you just say hello, you would wave you look for me ten ft ten.

I was scrubbing the floor every night, taking out the trash for like months and months and months before we could hire someone and we build ourselves a little bit. It all. So the chronut, even though it is, everything you make is excellent. You know, you never know what's gonna like, it's just what it is. And you always tell people like, you know, I have a menu item that's my biggest selling menu item, and it's called the ugly burger. And do I want to be known by

the ugly Burger? Not really, but I can't help it because everybody loves it. So you took a donut just so people don't understand this, and knowing from Msieur Pellettier how to scrape butter into flour, you somehow mixed it with a croissant and voila. So how did you did? You just put it up there and let's see what happens? Was it? Like, let's see what happens. It's fun. So

that's that's a short version. Yeah, that's simplified version. It took a little bit more walk amy my my now my wife and my business partner at the time told me we should do something for Mother's Day and she was like, why don't you do it? Donut? And I was like, look at me, I'm French. I have no clue how to make a donut. You know, I have a good basins chef. Why don't you do something similar? Something you like eating, like all of eating croissant. It's like, oh,

what makes something? And I want the kitchen. I try a few different things. It's not a coistan though, it's just something slightly different in terms of process and the mixing and the ratio of ingredients. But it's similar. So what can a recipe for quite about a while for a few months and then show it to her. She's like, yeah, it's pretty good. So the first flavor was rose and vanilla. It was for Mother's Day. I put probably like thirty for for that. That first day of the weekend and

the day before a friend, a blogger, came by. He was like, what are you guys working on, like putting this on the menu tomorrow. It's not a photo of his phone on the table. Nothing was planned at all. He put it on his blog was group Street at the time, and he called me the day before we launched. He was like, or something amazing happened. Was like, what happened? Like my article went viral? And I was like, great,

I'm happy for you. Like what does that mean? Like you understand you've gotta be busy to more, Like, yeah, we're busy. It's the weekend, you know, Saturday's motherest day. We're gonna be busy. Like no, no, no, you don't understand. He had an increase of traffic of three percent on his on his website and over a hundred forty thousand links to the article within a few hours. He was like,

I've never seen this before. I was like, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's modest day, you know, it's the weekends, like you should be ready to make a few more. And of course by day two and west all that in like seconds. By day two, we had over a hundred and fifty people lining out outside before the shop was open, and I was like, what the hell is going on here? The best thing every people were just

like coming for the cornuct. At the time, I don't think I didn't think it was the best thing that happened to me, because you know, I had for employees.

People were just like screaming at us and getting at us to make more in my tiny kitchen with like no stuff, and that's you know, that was like overwhelming people like the line like never stops since that, the hundreds and hundreds like I've seen, like at some point, like one of the girls wo worked for us at told to go outside to say hello to the line and tell them it'll be open soon. So she left at seven thirty and it was like almost eight o'clock. She wasn't back and she came back. I was like,

I thought she was gone first. I thought she was like that said she quit, she's not coming back. She comes back and looking all like terrified, like what hell did you go to to go out to the people and come back in? She's like, oh no, I went yeah. There's like it's four blocks long. There's like hundreds of people outside. Everyone was talking to me like okay. So I had to do almost this, like was spitch every morning to inspire people not to quit. Because people wanted

the corner. They want nothing else, and they were just like getting at us because we didn't make enough. And you know, when you have such a tennis space, like just like two people and stuff and you can keep up with the them, and it's just like more than overwhelming. And then we start seeing like TVs and life news from all over the world from the US, from different countries, and we'll just send everyone wedding in line so if they want to see anything, like, we couldn't do any

We couldn't do more. We you know, we could have a tenny dollar shops, so a little bit little, we made a little bit more and we find ways to make ourself better. But it was very, very difficult in the beginning. People were scalping, like we're setting our food outside the way we're setting the spot on line. People were picking at our trash to find like corners that were in the trash. They were not good. Yes, photos of like girls in hills speaking at our trash at

eleven pm at night in front of the bakery. I was just like I thought this world was going crazy and it done stop. So the solicitors from like all over the city like we're coming like trying to sell

things in line. It was just like this crazy wall out there people were finding because someone was getting the line at like two or three o'clock in the morning, we had to hire security because there was just like a wild wall out there, and then I couldn't control it, so we have security for a few years to manage

the line outside. It was just insane. It was more than overwhelming, and of course, like I felt like living and opening again a sort slepless and less unless I would walk like two hours a day, like sleeping, like taking naps inside the bakery and and then even at my desk. That was it was just ridiculous and it was overwhelming. But you know, looking back, it's you know, it's a blessing. You can't do this again. You can't

replicate this, I know. You know, some people ask me, like when I do speeches, like for advertising and communication, how did you do it? What was your your marketing strategy? What was your budget? And I was like, there was not of this. You don't understand. That didn't exist at all. It was just a pure natural like product that people

I think understood and we're excited about trying. But it's also the fact that there's authenticity and twenty years of experience, and that's why people wait in line because they know they're gonna have something special. That's right. Some people told me how you got lucky? No, no, no, I was like, well, I've been doing this for twenty years. Yes, maybe I don't know if it's luck or not, but you know,

how have you adapted to what people want? Now? People are asking for much more simple, classic things that what are you seeing right at the moment? It today as the change that's happened, because it's happened rapidly. For me, I think for me it's a little unique and special because we always had a part of our manu that was very classic, like all our quassans and stuff. I mean, I don't want to mess around with this, and we have another side of the big heater is really creative.

So people like love this, like seasonality, creativity, and it's a it's a big part of what we do when it comes to pastry. You know, to be honest, there's not too much hard there. There's definitely not a lot of people that do what I do. For us, you know, qualities everything before anything. The equality of what we do

is is everything. Then the creativity is important to our things that people relate to when create something, and there's always a story, there's always an emotional connection, there's always a link between the food and people. It's not just like to engligent speak together. There's a reason why they here. So what's next? Are you the new faulkstion of you

know it states? So you're gonna open international? I knew you're international already, but are you looking for that big one units and you're looking to do that big splash? Is that what you want? Or do you want to stay niche still no, it's not me like we I want to stay who I am. I want to keep

my personality. You know, if I had wanted to open a hundred shop around the world, I would have done it years ago when we first launched the cornuct and people were just like laying out the door willing to like give us money to expand this is not me. You know, there's there's there's still like plenty of opportunities and request for us to open around the wall. I think the most important for me is to stay true to who we are and make people dream of pastry

and have them excited. When I see people at the bakery and I see I'm there every morning, right want to open the door, and I see them with a smile on their face and coming with their family and their friends. You know when you see them from forward like they can and buy something, closing the eyes and then you see the cure smile and then I turn around. They want to share with someone there with this this moment.

You know, they're very short, there's just a few seconds, but that makes me realize, like what I do and why do it? I always tell people my my dad walked in the factory. I don't want to own a factory. It's it's not something I want to do. And I've walked too hard for too long to build what I have, and I think there's still a lot of beautiful things that I can do and a lot of opportunities I can.

You know that comes to us because we don't sell that, because we don't transform ourselves into a chain of restaurants or bakeries. And staying true to yourself and knowing what what you want in life is priceless. Can you tell me a little bit about what what's happening is the Vienna Asuri right, you're opening a little yes, so we're putting a new bakery in my hand. It's going to

be on twenty seven Street. It's called Dominigans Workshop and I Workshop because this is more of a place of of work for the kitchen with much bigger kitchen space, which allots have more tools to be more creative, to be more productive as well. So I want to focus on one of the things I loved the most. It's called viri. It's for all the croissants type though laminated.

It's or later with like butter and and and and do and it's a specific technique, specific skills that I have learned in France and Paris actually for over ten years. You know, it's hard to find a good croissant. I have to say, yeah, something that's like flicky and buttery and the right the right structure, the right flavors. And I have a lot of pride with without croissant, you know. And I want to show what how can be creative with the same line of of pastry, which is this

type of dough. And it's something I'm super excited about. So it's going to be called Dominicans All Workshop and it's one street. Congratulations, what a lovely conversation, and thank you for your time and the best of luck. Thank you, Jeffree. Okay, thank you, it's nice talking to you. Oh wow, thanks very much for listening to Four Courses with Jeffrey Zcarrion, a production of I Heart Radio and Corner Table Entertainment.

Four Courses is created by Jeffrey Zcarrion, Margaret Zcarrion, Jared Kelly, and Tara Helper. Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Four Courses is produced by Jonathan Hawes Dressler. Our research is conducted by Jesselyn Shields. This episode was engineered by Molly Swanson and Katie Fellman and edited and mixed by Joe Tisdel. Our talent booking is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent.

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