There's been a huge surge of high schoolers using e cigarettes or vaporing. There's breaking news in America's vaping crisis. Late today, a death was reported in Georgia vaporing company Jewel and some hot Water after the Food and Drug Administration said the company illegally marketed it's nicotine vaping devices as safe. Jewels, the maker of East Cigarettes, just might
be the most hated company in America right now. But before it became so big and before it became so controversial, Jewels co founders talked about a lofty mission to get the world's one billion smokers to stop smoking. I would tell people, you know, anyone who will listen, fifty years from now, nobody's gonna be smoking cigarettes. They're gonna look back and think, oh my god, I can't believe people
used to do that. What scientists Genuishing was there in the startups early years, and she helped invent the technology that later made Jewels such a big hit. Now, as Jewel faces a storm of government investigations in lawsuits, she thinks the answer to the industry's crisis is that somehow better safer e cigarette. Today. In the show, reporters Shelly Banjo and I visit this chemist news startup, Misslabs. I'm you're listening to decryptin stay with us, Hey, Shelly, how's
it going good? How are you? It's good to see you in person. It's good to be here. Do you want to introduce yourself? Sure? So? My name is Shelly Banjo and I'm a tech reporter, usually based out of Hong Kong, where I cover technology in Asia. I think he told me that this story started out as a tip that you got six months ago. That's right. I was having breakfast UM with a venture capitalist and he was telling me about this hot new East cigarette company
that he was investing in. I thought, I have do a story on this, this Chinese woman who was a scientist who was striking out on her own after working for Jewel and really creating the East Cigarette. There's got to be a story there. So it took us a while to figure out a date that worked for everyone, but we finally got you out here to San Francisco. UM. I picked you up and we drove down to San Jose where we got her a few months earlier. And
I think this is a podcast. UM. I figured we would just start with a little tour in the area. Of course, john Way first took us around the coworking space that they're in and then to a very small lab which is where she and just a few other scientists work out of I think this is where they do their R and D right right. They have about sixty employees and most of them are in China. And the product was sitting on a shelf with some of their other competitors products too. They don't look as fancy
as the other products are in the market. There are basically more mature tomb one is the space gray and the other ones the silver. Remember the formal name then, but anyway, yeah, so, um, what's the reasoning there. We believe that a secrette as a whole is designed for adult and mature user smokers. And then we did notice that many other products they use very fancy colors um neon colors, and then or so they add a lot of fancy flavors that their user. This is um lower edge,
which is what we really wanted to avoid. So like that bright blue one for example, that one would be something that's a lot of flashier and something. Yeah, and there were actually a lot of other products as even more flashier than this. There is definitely a theme she was trying to get across. Yes, she was really hammering home. You know, this is for adults. This isn't for kids. We don't have the fruity flavors and the candy colors. This is really for people in their forties who have
been smoking for a really long time. Do you want to walk us through chin Ways Bio sure. So. Chin Way grew up in China, and then she decided to follow in her parents footsteps and moved to the US to do her pH d in chemistry and chemical engineering, and she started at Janentech and then went over to matt Pharmaceuticals, which eventually was acquired by Allergan, the the botox maker. While she was there, she was working mostly on drugs that you would hail so think of asthma
and hailers. So she had really you know, she was this very serious student that translated into a serious scientist, very goal oriented, and out of nowhere. She was cold call by this recruiter who was working for the company that developed jewel. So jewels had a few names Plume Packed Labs. Now it's jewel just for the sake of simplicity. I'm just gonna refer to them as as Jewel. Initially, UM, I have to. I had to admit that I'm not
very familiar with this new company. So so they were a strong team with make kind of continuing background and product design, but they didn't have anybody with chemistry training. Um so, and that's why they had this opening. So she goes in. She says, Okay, I have an open mind. I'm going to keep an open mind. I told specifically to the recruiter in the beginning that I was not
a smoker and I don't plan to start smoking. Um. And then they said it's not a requirement, even though even though many of their team, um, they are smokers. When I actually went to interview, they were puffing on their product back there. Um, it was not as annoying at all as um, somebody smoking next to you. She was one of those people that hated secondhand smoke, and um,
she was pretty attracted to the mission. Like the way they definitely sold it to her and the way they needed to to attract a scientists who had a farm of background that you know, we're creating an alternative cigarettes. This could be a way to get millions of not billion people off of combustible cigarettes. You know, so struck by the symbolism of her going from these inhalers that deliver medicine right to these inhalers that deliver nicotine. But
she didn't seem to see that much of a distinction. Now, she had this really straight faced thing about her. It was very scientist like, you know, very matter of fact. They did mention that some other health care professionals they might be hesitant to, you know, do anything related tobacco related, But um, I actually hold different views on that because I think being body develops medications right of drugs, it's
actually to treat sickness. But I do see um smoking as a behavior causing a lot of health problem and then causing a lot of stress on public health space in general. She had spent all her of her career up to that point working on caring illnesses, and she thought to herself, why am I carrying illnesses? Why don't I stop the thing that's causing these illnesses in the first place, which were cigarettes. Okay, so in Chinway starts working at Jewel She really likes the fast pace people
are working around the clock. They're really excited about what they're doing. They're young. They you know, there's beer and stuff at the office and um, you know, her job as a chemist is to make the liquid formulation that goes into the Jewel pod. So basically figuring out how to deliver that kind of nicotine hit to give you that buzz in a few uh in a few minutes. And so it's kind of the core of this produc act And and she does, she figures it out, she
gets a patent, and um, it's a big accomplishment. Do you remember that moment when it worked for the first time, when those volunteers, um came to you and say that they haven't touched the air a secret pack for a while, right for so um from a pack of day down to maybe a pack of months and then later to zero. And when what do you think when they told you that, Well, I do think that we have a great product and we should let more people try it. And in June
they decide to launch the jewel product. They get four people packed into this swinky Manhattan event hall and there's models and there's music and it's really exciting. There's build up and and then nothing happens. You know, like they don't make this big impact. Sales are not really booming or anything like that. And this is when Jules Founders start thinking about out marijuana the recreational uses is not legal yet in California, but it's becoming clear that it
will be. People have been using jewels products for for smoking pot, and you know, they clearly see that there's going to be a market there, big market there, especially if pockets legalized in certain cities around the country. And Chinway really disagrees with that. You know, she has these cultural hesitations. She comes from China where marijuana and pot use is not really accepted. Although there are quite many UM articles or scientific publications talking about the benefit it
could do to certain disease or symptoms. I do think the risk is a bit too high compared to the potential benefit it will have. So I think, you know, as a scientist, to myself, I would have to be convinced to develop something. What were some of the risks that you were thinking about? UM, I think, unlike nickting Um, it is still impacting your your acute behavior at the moment, So I do worry more people get d U I once this is too convenient. I still see it may
be a gateway drug. Of course there's debated on it, but I mean it's just my personal opinion. Yeah, Based on that direction, she decides to quit in and goes back to the farmer world fast fort a year or so, and Jewel becomes a huge hit, and Chinway starts to see it everywhere. Jewel markets itself as an alternative to traditional cigarettes. Jewel is everywhere on city streets, in offices, even in classrooms. You know, everybody's vaping. Jewel has become
a verb. And you know, she's really proud of what she's done and frankly surprised. She said that she expected it to be a hit, but not that much of a hit. She didn't think it was gonna really revolutionize um the industry as much as it did. And she starts getting calls from people, you know, old school cigarette companies, new startups saying, hey, do you want to launch another product?
You want to come work for us? And then she starts talking to her college friend Thomas, who we met earlier, and he says, why are you going to go work for another company? Like, let's start our own company, and let's start it in China. We'll be right back. In the meantime, all these stories start coming out about Jewel, about how teens are starting to get addicted, and Jewels
really at the center of all this controversy. The Surgeon General, you know, the America's doctor comes out and says, we must protect our nation's young people from a lifetime of nicotine addiction and associated problems. This is an epidemic. Vaping for teens has become an epidemic. We have been talking about this story all week because so many parents of teens are concerned about this. Let's talk about the teenage brain and how vaping affects it. Our teens more susceptible
to addiction. Absolutely they are, and we have to talk about chinwey. You know, she presses ahead. They start this new company called Missed Labs. So um in July, they've released two products, one which is pretty much like a Jewel product, which is called the P series, and one which is a G series, which is a disposable e cigarette for one time use. You know, as it got hot, it also got more controversial. Um, would you make of
the controversy around around Jewel. They did make it very specific that it was for adult smoker, but it just because you know, the marketing campaign were on the social networks and then um, young people are the major users on the social networks, so then they got exposed to
the information. Right, So it sounds like what you're saying is that you think Jewel made a mistake in marketing on social networks like Instagram, and you think it also made a mistake and making it look appealing to young people. Is that right? I don't think they necessarily made the mistake. It was to me, in my opinion, it was an accident because you know, any new products, they all use social network channels. So and then jewics device. It's never colorful, right,
it's also space gray. So I just think it is an unfortunate accident. Um. And then they tried to correct once they seas the problem. But where you upset? I mean like you spent this big part of your career to create this you know, um new device. So like personally, like where you're like, oh, you know, like I didn't want to do that. I think I'm upset in a way that now the whole focus um, not just Jewel, but also all the cigarettes. Right, the whole focus is
on how it costs under age by being problem. So there are a huge um smoker community that they actually benefit from the cigarettes, but they're kind of ignored. It's interesting because the wag and We talks about her startup does seem to be very much in recognition of all of the criticism that's been lodged against Jewel. She talks about how miss isn't going to sell any of these
sweet dessert like flavors. She talks about how they're designing it in this really understated way, in this true way, but at the same time, she's completely unwilling to criticize Jewel. Would you make of that? You know, I don't think that she sees it as her fault. You know, you would think, you know, I created this monster of a product that has hooked a generation of kids on nicotine addicted them, And she doesn't see that as as something
that she did. You know, in her mind, she sees a product that she created to help people stop smoking. So I don't know if she really feels that sense of responsibility or anything like that. And it sounds like what she wants to do in future iterations of their product would further separate them from Jewel. Yeah, So right now with the current products that they pushed out this summer,
they're very similar to Jewel. I think that they really tried to solve some of the low hanging fruit problems, like the colors, the pretty flavors, things that they could address pretty quickly with the design. I think what she's really passed about is the next iteration of these formulations, the chemical kind of formulations that would bring you the same kind of buzz, the same kind of nicotine hit, but with a lot less nicotine, and that way it
wouldn't be as addictive as they currently are now. Of course, the latest development is the mysterious vaping related lung disease that's killed more than twenty people and has made more than a thousand people sick. She seemed unfazed by all
of that too. Would you make of her response? So clearly she had looked into it, but because it's inconclusive that she wouldn't kind of take a stand either way, And she did bring up that of one of the theories is that it has to do with th HC and cannabis oils and you know, really linking it to the marijuana that she's against in in the first place. But there wasn't any sense of for more or worry or any of those kind of you know, emotions that you'd expect to have from someone who's so close us
um to the vaping industry. As we were wrapping up our interview, I asked Hinway if she could give us a product sample so I could compare it to jewel I've smoked maybe twice in my life before, and I guess my question was if I were to puff on miss E cigarette, would I be less likely to want to do it again compared with puffing on a Jewely cigarette. Since i'ment on smoker, if I tried one of your cigarettes, and if I tried a jewel E cigarette, do you
think I would find your product the most revolting? Um, I'm not sure. Pallette Palette theres just so you know, individual so personnel, so I I really don't know if I can comment, But we don't have a whole lot of dessert flavor, so you might find it growth that.
And I went home and I looked up where I could buy a Jewelry cigarette, and then I popped into a seven eleven the next day to buy the device, and as the flavor pod, I appropriately got carded Um, and then they didn't have any of the fruity flavors. I got the Virginia tobacco pod and then Chilly You, and I walked outside to try it. My wife thought this was such a bad idea. She tried to talk why.
I think she was worried that it would get me addicted. You. First, I took out the sample we got from Miss Labs. It took us a minute to figure out how to set it up and take this out the other way. I think this way. I put in the Chinese tobacco flavor pod. Okay, all right, what do I do? I think to pull it and then I even hell and I gave it a puff. What was it? Gross? Yeah? I mean, it's certainly not something that I would proactively do. I think to try another one. Oh it's terrible. Oh
my god. Okay, alright, wow, that really hurts. It feels like there's small pieces of glass um ripping out my throat. That does not sound like something that I would want. Okay, all right, let's try the jewel one. And then I tried the Jewel device with the Virginia Tobacco Flavor pod. This one had the same nicotine concentration as the miss product of five percent nicotine. Okay, all right, that looked worse, are you okay? Yeah? Yeah, I mean they're both disgusting.
Do you taste the difference? I don't know. I don't think so. They birth both really hurt my throat. So, Shelly, I think we set out on this visit with quite a bit of skepticism that a different East cigarette was in fact the answer to this current vaporing crisis. What's your overall take? It seems just nuts right now to launch an East cigarette company with this like regulatory tempest, you know, just kind of overtaking the industry. You have Jewel and the cross hairs, you have the rest of
the world regulators looking into it. You have all these kids that are smoking. It kind of seems like the whole world is against these cigarettes. You know, why would you start an e cigarette company right now? You know? I did find her very sincere, though um in her passion to get smokers to switch to I guess, like the lesser of two evils, And it was also really sympathetic to her argument that nicotine patches and nicotine gum just doesn't do enough for smokers. To get them the switch.
That's what I thought was one of the most interesting things of everything that she had to say, which was that like, hey, we tried these patches and these in this gum and it didn't really work. People just didn't want it. They wanted that high. Going back to our puff test earlier, as a non smoker, I did find mislabs e cigarettes very gross and very painful. It maybe never want to do it again. But I felt the exact same way about Jewel too um equally gross, equally painful.
And I guess even then, tons of non smokers have gotten addicted through Jewel, So I'm not sure that missed, at least in its current iteration, is making it any less likely for non smokers to get hooked. I think the promise will come in its next iteration if the scientist, if Chinway, is able to get the next breakthrough that she's hoping, which is to deliver the same kind of hit with a much lower nicotine dose that won't get people addicted. But it's also going to have to take
some regulation. I mean, this was the wild West for for these companies, and so hopefully with more regulation, you know, you will have kind of these lines that you can stay in UM and you know, come up with some some more innovation, some more science behind it, and you know, create that cigarette that really does make people stop smoking regular cigarettes. Decrupted is produced by me Akito, Sean Wyn and Ethan Brooks and then he Wit. Contribut did reporting.
Our story editor is Anne vander May. Francesca Levie is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. We'll see you next week. M