Google Workers Rise Up: Inside the Protests

Google pays these people very well. Famously, working at Google also comes with tons of perks, like swimming pools and free food. But what's really unique is the amount of responsibility and autonomy the company gives staff. Google shares an unusual amount of internal company information with its employees and encourages them to speak up about things they disagree with.

Over the years, everything from app designs and search results to what kind of kale should be served in the company kitchens has been up for debate, and as a result, Google services and products have benefited from the collective intelligence of many of the world's smartest engineers. It's a big reason why the company's offerings are so user friendly and why they make billions of dollars in profit every quarter.

And this symbiosis ran pretty smoothly until about two years ago. Now, after a series of controversies and protests, some workers are openly at war with Google. It's already duailed important business initiatives, and its sparking employee uprisings at other tech giants like Amazon and Microsoft. We're going to take you inside these foundations shaking developments with Irene Nap, a self taught senior software engineer who's been at Google for almost five years

working on security and privacy projects. I'm Pierre Gadkari, and I'm Alistair Barr. You're listening to Decrypted, So Alista tell us more about Irene. I first met Irene last year at Google shareholder meeting. Irene was there speaking in favor of a proposal to hie executive pay to progress on diversity and inclusion. Irene has had a front row seat throughout the last two tumultuous years at the company, either by being personally involved in protests or via relationships with

co workers on the front lines. Irene is trans and goes by the gender pronoun they or them. They agree to talk about all this, but not any private work they're doing for Google. We met up last month at the Bloomberg office in Silicon Valley. Now I wanted to get into the first time, maybe where Google management and some of the workers maybe started parting ways a little bit. So to me, things really got back to James the more. In August of seen you published what we have all

called the mammos since then. Um, when thinking that about people realize that there were many versions of the mammo. I can't refined over a period to read circuit focus stance for argument, which was this misogynist view that women are not suit engineers. Let me quickly refresh everyone's memory about this incident. A couple of years ago, Google was facing accusations from a group of female employees that the company was paying them less than men doing similar work.

Around that time, a long essay which had been circulating on Google message boards got picked up in the press. It was written by James Damore, who was an engineer at Google at the time, and its central theme was that men may be more suited to working in tech than women. Offensive and harmful. That is how the CEO of Google is describing an anti diversity memo written by one of Google's male employees. Now, the engineer behind the manifesto, which claims women are and how did how would you

rate Google's response to that crisis? The company fired him after getting its little ducks in a row. The Google software engineer behind this controversial ten page memo is out gone after blasting diversity and women in the workplace. A source of go I was pleased out that I was not so pleased that there wasn't anything internal communication. Um, and there were. There was a planned series of town halls which was canceled actually about half an hour before

the first one would have happened. And why did Google scrap these meetings so abruptly, iron said. Questions and answers that had been prepared for the town halls were leaked to the public. Then James Damore and other plaintiffs filed the suit against Google, alleging violation of their labor rights. The complaint included screenshots of internal company communications. Conveniently, all the people who pomittedly agreed with their names had been redacted.

But you know, all of my friends had been named. In fall, and many people began featuring on harassment websites for Irene. This was the moment when Googlers began to really work in unison to change things several of us put together a petition UM and we did get a meeting with the company's upper management the West time to my knowledge that a petitioners had not resolved. The company has some responsibility there because this is a part of

a social change which was enabled by the Internet. Um and you know Google, Google is a big part of the Internet, part of the Okay. So that's how it all got started. What happened next, I'd say the next big flare up between workers and Google management happened several months later. It had to do with the project that Google had in the works with the Pentagon to provide

artificial intelligence to analyze drone footage. Internally, it was known as Project may Even Now I mean and most other workers didn't hear about this until details were leaked to the press in March two thousand eighteen. Some three thousand Googlers, as Google employees are known, have sent CEO Sumed Arpachai an open letter asking him to end cooperation with the

U S Department of Defenses. Project may have it that venture includes the secrecy around Project may Even seemed to violate Google's actors for open communication with employees, and importantly, it also veered away from the companies focus on consumer products and into military work. As an engineer, I think something perhaps a little bit different when I hear that. I think most people think bombs. I think surveillance, because you know, the United States does have I fine drones

which could just survey an entire city at once. But I don't think any government deserves that level of power. I think it's too much. If I had wanted to work for a defense contract, or if I'd wanted to work for Key Martin, I would have done that. Google employees didn't like working on artificial intelligence projects for the military. They thought it was war work, so they demanded that we the Google step back, and they did. Google committed

not to redo that contract. The best of my knowledge, that has happened, although I have the strong feeling that that the military may have simply hired some versity into a startup and that they're still running it on, you know, our public facing service. That last part is pretty damning.

Irone is saying that because Google's cloud services and many of us AI tools are available for anyone to use, there's a way for the company to continue helping the Pentagon without directly working with it, so is that true? I ask Google about this and several other points Iron raised.

The company declined to comment, but Google's top lawyer, Kent Walker, has said that Google let the contract expire and worked closely with the Pentagon to make the transition quote in a way that is consistent with our AI principles and contractual commitments. So Alistair, as I recall, the controversy over Project Maven, died down after Google said it wasn't going to renew the contract. But within a few months Google

was back in hot water with its workers again. Google has been working on a secret project code named Dragonfly. Dragonfly was a censored version of its search engine for China, and so today the New York Times broke the news about a protest letter signed by four hundred employer ease. They wanted to quote raise urgent moral and ethical issues, saying currently we do not news about this secret project. Dragonfly caused an uproar inside Google once again. I found

out through the press, and I was frankly shocked. Of

course this was going to be a censored search engine. Um, I saw a version of the search result page, and you know, working at Google, the search result page, we're all well aware that it has a very high standard to be neutral, to reflect the world as it is, which is not the only possible moral choice, but it is the moral choice that has been consistently made, and that the company's reputation is built on um And to see a version of that page where with a search

for Tianeman Square, which had I believe the first result was something about the myth of Tanneman Square and that it didn't happen, or something to that effect, So I mean and other employees this undermined as the reason Google exists to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful, because you know, if if Google can't be remid on to say what's true, who can? Who

do you trust? Project Dragonfly also divided staff. There were other employees who argued that providing services to China's huge population was aligned with Google's mission, But in Washington it was a double punch. This combination of Google withdrawing from a US military contract while simultaneously building a search service that would help an authoritarian communist government censor information. It

was too much for some politicians. Eventually, Google CEO Sunda Pichai had to testify in front of Congress to explain himself that happened in December. So I want to ask very specifically, are any employees currently having product meetings on this question, on this Chinese project and where, if not, when did those end. We have undertaken an internal effort, but right now there are no plans to launch a

search service in China. As I said earlier, are there any current discussions with any member of the Chinese government on launching this app? Currently we are not in discussions around launching. And President Donald Trump was commenting on this as recently as March. In a tweet, he said, quote, Google is helping China and their military, but not the US. Terrible.

We'll be right back. As two thousand and eighteen progressed, it really started to feel like the clashes between Google management and workers were heating up in a way we've never seen before. The Dragonfly controversy was still playing out in Washington when the next bombshell landed And what was that?

Here was a story published by The New York Time in late October, and it said that Google had given one of its top executives, a man called Andy Rubin, who co created the Android mobile operating system, a massive ninety million dollar exit package, even though he'd been accused of sexual harassment and an internal investigation by Google had found the allegation to be credible. Andy Rubin has said reports about his conduct and departure from Google misrepresented the facts.

I knew that was in the works. Um. I was very at least it was possible to tell that story, and it was possible to gather testimony from so many people that it was simply an incontrovertible I fl um. And the response was pretty much a media I think it was within a matter of days the walkout happened, yea. And who came up with that? That? Did that start spontaneously? Yes?

Actually it was a number of people who had previously worked little that I gathered that they had been doing things very similar to the kinds of efforts I have

been doing. You know, I came from a remote part of that campus that day I headed down UM to join the It was really a protest atmosphere, UM and you know, all my sign not okay Google, and hear what people had to say and see the real strength and numbers, and then I believe the final number was twenty thousand people worldwide structural change in the name of transparency accountability. Google tried to contain the rage by going along with the protest to some degree. CEO sund Our Pitch.

I made sure that managers could make arrangements to cover for staff who wanted to take part. And how how did the company restpond because in a way, in a way they were kind of supportive. I think they at us a table of like pagels and coffee, a joke like the revolution will be catered. But then I've realized it's not it's not really a joke. It's um it's actually a very common management tactic to portray any descent

as officially sanctioned fit for you personally. What what do you think of the most important things to actually have changed so far? I think the biggest thing that has changed is that Google's understand that we need to talk to each other or we won't understand what's going on their company if we don't, you know, share our stories,

we won't. No, we'll just all be compartmentalized. And everyone who's going through something horrible, something like any of what any of the women who spoke to that reporter experience they'll just think, Oh, this is just me. I'm alone. Maybe I'm the crazy one, which is certainly how companies everywhere have always tried to make people feel in those situations, and Google is no exception. Alista, what's happened to Irene and all the other Google workers who have been protesting

so much in the last couple of years. I can't

imagine Google is very pleased with them. Well, some employees said recently that Google has retaliated against them, so I brought that up with Ireen Personally, what I have experienced is everybody I know, everybody who's doing positive change of the company, UM, who's working to make place better, UM, has been feeling disheartened, has experienced, you know, something, even if it's even if it's small, even if it's an interaction with HR where they say, um, you know, step

back from communicating. I'm my internal mailing lists and you say, UM, well, are you telling me that I have to do that? Or are you suggesting? And they say, oh, I'm just suggesting. And then afterward they follow up and they try to get it in writing that they told you you have to. When you follow up and say, no, I that's not my recollection for meeting. It was just advice. Correct, you're not telling me that I can't and why why why would they do something like that? Just a difficult tactic.

I don't think there are any different from any other company in that regard. It's um you know, establishing a contemporaneous written record of what happened is likely to carry more weight than your testimony about how that conversation really went. Some protesters say they've been demoted or had responsibilities taken away. One of these people is Meredith Whittaker. She's a Google researcher who specializes in AI and co founded a group called AI Now that studies the impact of this technology

on society. So she founded a nonprofit called AI Now, which you know, in my opinion as an engineer who's work is relevant to this stuff, is doing absolutely incredible work. Meredith was told, and I the form of it was a bit ambiguous. I think that she would not be able to focus on that work in her capacity at Google, and that the company's priorities were no longer online where they are now, which is a startin thing to say, since it's like saying the company's priorities are no longer

relige with what's good for the world. Then in May some Google is organized a sit in to share stories of retaliation by the company. But this event was a lot smaller than the walkout protest. Google has policies to prohibit retaliation at work and provides ways for workers to apport such behavior, and it investigates all reports. But I mean said the company didn't sanction the sitting. Combined with the reports of retaliation, people may have felt nervous about

taking part. I think this is the test of um, you know, can they get rid of what they must view as the troublemaker saying all that work? I think everybody else is watching to see what happens to us, the poor group. And how do you feel It sounds like you feel a bit targeted, yes, now as an individual, as a member of that group, And what do you think is going to happen to the group? I think we're wrong to wear I think the company tactics here

show a great desperation. They wouldn't do anything so blatant if they had any better options. Um. I think they know how the world views this, now that they know that Google isn't some magical place where everything is perfect, that it's a company like any other corporation, um like any other multinational corporation that you know, ultimately tries its best to think of people's interchangeable. Okay, I want listeners to stop and mull that last comment for a second.

I've been covering Google on and off for about five years, so this is shocking to hear. Co founder Larry Page has always wanted Google to be an unconventional company, but here I mean is saying this is no longer the case. So Ali, I'm curious about whether all of these protests by employees are starting to hurt Google's business in any way. I think it could for sure. I think Google's ability to hire and keep talent is a really under appre

created part of its success. And you know, these these protests really are are all about how that special relationship between Google and its workers has started to break down. So it could be it could be a lot harder to keep hold of talented people or higher new ones. And so what about Google's actual businesses. You know, we've already heard that Google had to step away from Project Maven, which is a valuable contract that could have led to more business. So there are other projects that are at

risk in a similar way. I think the main thing to look at here is Google's cloud computing business. This is the business of where you basically have a bunch of servers and data centers and you rent them out to other companies. And Amazon and Microsoft really lead in that business. It's a really booming industry and Google is third and a bit late to that business. Now. A big cloud customer in the US is the US military

and the border US government. So if officials worry that Google staff are going to keep derailing projects like Maven, that could make them pick Amazon or Microsoft, you know, when other contracts come up forbidding. And what about the popularity of the CEO, Sunder Patty. He's historically been quite popular within the company, and I wonder if that's beginning

to change at all. So there was a an internal employee survey that actually Google does it every year that this latest one, which came out in around early two

thousand and nineteen, again got leaked into the press. We wrote about it as well, and it showed that among employees sunder pitch i is still still has a solid rating, but actually it went down by by more than ten percentage points compared to compared to the previous years, So there has been there has been a drop in the way that employees think about him, and over the last few months, pitch I has had to address the protests

from workers. He said that Google has listened to concerns about the way the military users AI, and the company has made quite a few changes in response. He's also said that employees should be able to choose what they work on, but he emphasized that Google is going to continue working with the U. S. Military. Here's a clip of him talking about this in November the New York

Times conference. We don't run the company by referendum, and I think, you know, there are many things good about We've given employees a lot of wars and out of which we've done well as a company, and I think it's part of the process. I think other companies may not be used to it. And so it looks like, you know, that is how everything works, but that's not

how everything works. Our positions we make, which they may not often you frustrated though, and then coming back to Irene, I'm wondering how they're feeling at this point because employees have managed to push through some real change at Google. At the same time, these recent reports of retaliation must not be very encouraging. Yeah, I did ask them about that. I wondered looking back over this roughly a year, even more than a year, Um, do you think it's all

been worth it? So? Clas absolutely no question. I came through the tech industry and to Google with the idea as to go of making positive change in the world, and I still feel that Google does that in some respects um. And I also I feel greatly privileged to be in a position where I can make my own positive change to the company, or at least try to. And has this come at a personal cost to Irene? Yes. Irene also talked about the toll of anonymous people goading

and harassing them online. Frankly, we're talking about white supremacists here, and they are as shallow as you can possibly imagine, perhaps more shallow. I think they They would say that somebody like me is um, they might say effective, or they would just express dis belief that anybody of my role could possibly be somebody at all important than anybody like me, you could do anything significant. I Rene managed to remain calm through more than an hour of discussing

all this with me. The only time they really got set was discussing how these anonymous harasses targeted Google co founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin. But you see the founders are you know, they have Jewish backgrounds of various natures, and so to these as Larry and Sergey, who are brilliant engineers who invented the algorithm that the company is built on, personally, um are simply nonentities because Jewish it's

just so shallow. It was clear to me from this that I mean still loves Google at least what the company used to stand for and what it could once again be. Now, what do you think the future looks for for both you? You and and Google and you at Google? Excellent question. I don't know. You know how much mongerl be with the company. Everybody reaches their moment

and you can't rely on single individuals forever. But I think that there are many people at the company now we're aware of all these issues and tapped in, and I know that we now have a robust movement to hold the industry account of ball. It's not even just Google anymore. And that's it for this week's episode of Decrypted. Thanks for listening. If you have a story to share, or if you're a tech worker who's concerned about the

company work app, I'd love to hear from you. You can write to us at Decrypted at bloomberg dot net, w I'm on Twitter at Alistair m bar and I'm at Pierre get Curry. And please help us spread the word about our show by leaving us a rating or review in your favorite podcast app. This episode was produced by Pierre get Curry and Lindsay Cratterwell. Our story editor was Aki Eater. Thank you also to Ann vander May and Emily Abusa. Francesco Leavie is head of Bloomberg Podcast.

We'll see you next week.