A Conversation With Billionaire Masayoshi Son

conversation with the man himself. Massa, as he's known in the industry, recently spoke to David Rubinstein, the co founder and co CEO of the private equity firm the Carlyle Group. Their conversation was part of David's series on Bloomberg Television called Peer to Peer Conversations, and was taped on September nine in front of a live audience. There's some real jail ms and insights in this interview, like how Massa, at only aged sixteen, convinced the head of McDonald's Japan

to meet with him. Please enjoy. You are clearly one of the world's most successful technology investors in one of the world's most successful businessmen. Let me start by asking you about a fund that you are now raising, the Vision Fund. It's supposed to be a fund of a hundred billion dollars. Now, that would be the biggest fund ever raised. So when you told people you were going to raise a hundred billion dollar fund, did they tell

you you were a little crazy? Well, some people said you had a meeting with a man who was the deputy Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia who's now the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. And as I understand the story, you went in and in one hour you convinced him to invest forty five billion dollars. No, no, it's not too okay, forty five minutes, forty five villion? That okay, sorry, okay, I apologize. In other words, if you had one one billion dollars pub minute, what could you have said? That

was that persuasion to get fortyllion in one meeting? Well, actually, I said, you came to Tokyo as the first time I wanna. I want to give you a gift. I want to give you a massive gift, Tokyo gift, a trillion. That a gift. And he opened up his eyes. I said, okay, now it's interesting, all right. So I woke up him and said, here is how we can give you a I can give you a trillion. That a gift you invest hundred billion. That as to my fun, I give you a trillion dollars. But what is sh it that

you told people? What was the vision that you actually gave them? So one vision which is single reality. Singularity is the concept that the computing power computers artificial intelligence surpassed mankind's brains. The singularity is the concept The word means that is the point at which a computer becomes smarter than a human brain. Yes, today already computer is smarter than mankind for chess, or goal or weather forecast.

To some expert systems, computers already smarter. But in thirty years most of the subject that we are thinking, they will be smarter than us. That's might believe. Let's go back and talk about your upbringing a bit. So you are of Korean descent. Your grandfather came from Korea and moved to Japan many years ago, and your parents were born in Japan. Did you suffer discrimination growing up in Japan? Yes, I had some experience, but I fear now it was good.

You know, that made me, you know, stronger to work harder. Ah, So I had to prove that I am not different from any other guys, you know, not inferior, it's sane. So I had to work harder to prove the value. Your family adopted a Japanese name at one point. Well, actually, in Japan there was a some period Japanese government forced every Korean to change to Japanese name. So it was not their intention that we had to had to change. I had to change. That made me even more harder

because I was feeling that I was hiding something. It was even tougher. You did not grow up in Tokyo. Um. You grew up in a relatively small town is that right? In in Japan, in the southern the southern part of Japan. So at one point is said that you were very interested in meeting the head of McDonald's. And why were you interested in me in the head of McDonald's. Did you like McDonald's food or you just what was it? He wrote the book and that book became the best seller.

I was so impressed and said, oh my god, this is great, and the guy who wrote about it must be great. So how old were you when you wanted to meet him sixteen sixteen, So you you managed to get a meeting with him. I called his his assistant and long distance called back then it was so expensive. I made almost hundred goals, sixty goals and say, you know this is my name, I'm a student, and could you ask him to spend me shared me sometime and could you ask him? And she said, oh, I will try,

but he's not going to meet with a student. I said, well, don't decide by yourself. Let him decide. Okay. So I I spoke with with the assistant, different assistants so many times, and they don't give me the right answer. So I said, okay, this is waste of my telephone bill. So I flew into Tokyo and I said I came because they the phone call became becoming more expensive than a ticket. So what happened? And I said, tell him exactly the way. I said. You don't have to look at me, you

don't have to talk to me. You can keep on walking whatever you're doing. I just want to see his face for three minutes. So I'm not bothering him. I just I'm so impressed and respect him. I want to see him and if if you tell him that I'm not going to bother him, time is money. He says, I'm not gonna damage his life. She actually asked, and he said, okay, okay. Actually he spent fifteen minutes with me talking face to face. He gave you some advice,

which was to learn. Yeah, I asked him, what business should I do? Computer? That's the one. If I were you at u Age at this time of the you know, ah, this is don't look at the past industry, look at the future industry. That's the one. Computer industry. That's the one you should focus. If I were you, that's the one. So I said, wow, great. Next, well, here Massa Yoshi son talked about one daily made, which many people consider to be the most successful investment ever. Okay, we're back.

Let's go back to David Rubinstein and Massa Yoshi's son. One of the investments you made is considered by many people to be the most successful investment in the history of mankind. You invested roughly twenty million dollars in Ali Baba, and at the time it went public it was worth roughly ninety billion dollars. So twenty million to ninety billion is a return up at four thousand. Now Jack ma is a very distinguished individual now now one of the

most successful entrepreneurs in the world. What is it that made you feel this was worth putting in twenty million dollars. Well, he had no business plan and zitto revenue, h employees maybe thirty five forty employees. But his eyes was very strong, strong, strong, shining eyes. Um I could tell from the way he talked, the way he looked at he has a calisuma. He has a leadership. So his business model was wrong. It's the way he talked, the way you know he can

bring you know, young Chinese people following him. Before Yahoo was so famous. You made an early investment which was spectacularly successful. How did you hear of Yahoo? Yeah? Yeahhoo. Us was still private, fifteen employees, and I convinced Jerrian to take hundred million dollars of our investment. So at the time we negotiate, we agree. They grew from fifteen to thirty five people, thirty thirty five people, and we invest hundred million dollars two own and actually went I

po and made a great were done. And at the same time I convinced him to start to inventure both jaff of Japan. Well, we put one point two million dollars. They put upon eight million, two million dollars start up, kept up. Now, let's talk about one big mistake you made overall and obviously very successful in almost everything you've touched, but you were making a lot of internet investments around

the turn of the century. Around your two thousand one the market went down in the in the in the tech crash, and it is said that you personally lost seventy billion dollars of net worth, the greatest loss that any human being has ever suffered financially. So how did you feel losing seventy billion dollars of net worth? Why? Yeah? Before that, actually my net was personal net was was increasing ten billion dot per week. For three days. I became richer than Bitry Gates. Wow, what was that that

upset him? Or? No? Before I talked to anybody else, you know, stop stop crossing? Uh So in in six months after that, our share price went done n So we all almost went bankrupt and somehow I survived. You rebuilt your business, and among the things you did while you bought some very well known companies. So you bought voter phones, uh Mobile, telephone business in Japan at that time. I said, now is the time to go next days,

which is the internet will become mobile internet. So I had to either get the license from the government for the spectrum or acquire bother from Japan. And first I applied for the license to the government and the government said no, there is no more spectrum. I actually sued the government and uh, you know, for one big fight. But then then the both up on Japan became available twenty billion dollars. I had two billion dollars, so eighteen

billion dollars shot. So where'd you get the money? So I convinced the bank you know that the vote up on Japan, I'm going to turn around and become successful and become great cash flow, believe me and lend me money. And they did. They did, and it turned out to be very successful. Recently, you did the biggest investment you've ever made in a company called a r M, which is Farm, which is a semiconductor manufacturer based in London.

Why did you spend thirty one billion dollars buying a semiconductor manufacturer when many people think that that's not the future. It's actually study four billion that yeah, it's not a manufacturer, it's a design design house. They design all the chip chip set. They have nine market share for any smart phone that you're have in your pocket. Is arm has nine market share. Right in next twenty years, it's gonna be they're gonna ship one trillion chips. Design for one

trillion chips. So I said, this is this is the company. This is nobody can live in the on the earth anymore without chip. Chipp is everywhere in the car, you know, the fuserator everywhere. So if if chip is something that everybody needs, and if there is one company has nine market share, there must be a value. They're not monetizing well enough. But if I own it, we can managize as much better. So that's my belief. So I think it's the company is gonna be more valuable than Google.

It's not available. It's private company now. Now in the future. You are a big believer in robots. It is your view. I guess artificial intelligence is a good thing and ultimately will not hurt humanity. Is that correct? So you don't worry that the robots could become so smart they could wipe out humanity as some people worry. Yeah, there is

a danger of that. There's a danger. But if you look at the mankind history, people were killing each other with many battles different among different tribes and rays and so on. But today's world, we don't have that kind of things everyday life. We are more civilized. So when the what super intelligence go beyond mankind's intelligence and they say, well, fighting is the not efficient way of living. The harmony is better. It's more social. So we were gonna live

in harmony. And they think about us, they help us, and they try to amuse us and have a good love each other. What gives you the greatest pleasure in the world. Well, the thing is, you know, I have a vision. I have a vision of singilorarity that's really coming. So we create a vision fun, right, we go and change the world together and create a better world, better world for for human living. Ah, So that excite me. You know what is thinking about what is the future?

What is the how we can change the life of people for the better humanity? Right, and so that people don't need to die for unnecessary reasons like having accident or having the disease or having the disaster to protect human from all those you know, Uh, sadness. It's a good thing, right, So imagining those things and investing and create a group and having great product, great solution is exciting.

And now today you've come back and you're have enormous net worth by any human standards, one of the richest men in the world. What you do with all this money, Well, I haven't decided what to do. I haven't decided, But you're sixty years old. Now you've got to decide at some point. Deciding how to spend with respect is more difficult than making money. That was a headache I had when I when I, you know, became so richest me in the world, you had the headache and you lost

that headache. Now you've got it again, right. Do you have any plans to keep doing this for a ten years or twenty years? Yeah. In my age of nineteen, I created fifty years my life plan, and in my age of sixties, from between sixty and sixty nine, I would decide my successor and have my success keep on running it. So in my next ten years I have to do that. But even after I find a success and give him a baton to run as a captainship,

I would probably stay working with him coaching him. And uh, you know, as long as I live, probably I cannot give forget about this excitement. Your parents are still alive, they must be extremely proud of you. Well there, they act very proud of me, and they're very happy. We're a happy family. And you know we don't live together, but they called me occasionally. And and you know, my dad is funny guy. He he has a unique idea, crazy idea and he always called me and said, Massa,

I got an idea, you have to do this. He knows everything I'm doing. And uh, he's he's very creative, very smart, and he talked about business to me all the time. Now, you are Japanese and but you have careeran descent, but you're different than most Japanese business people who were very um, consensus oriented, not maybe as entrepreneurial as you are. Has that been a challenge for you and building up your business in Japan? Yeah, lots of challenge,

but the uniqueness is actually good. You know, if the pack of other people this way, I am unique, I have more opportunities. So the difficulty can, if you flip over, become the advantage. So a final question, if you can live your life over extraordinary story. Is there anything you would do differently than you've done? I may, but this is the life I'm enjoying so much that I would love to do it again. Ah. I was so lucky. I was so close to, you know, fall down from

the cliff. So I don't know I can do it twice. But but this is definitely exciting life. I'm having fun. And that's it for this week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening. We always like to hear what you think of the show. Send us an email at Decrypted at Bloomberg got net or on Twitter. I'm at Bradstone and if you have it already, please take a moment to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps new listeners find our show. This episode was produced by Pea Gudkari, Liz Smith,

and Magnus Hendrickson. The David Rubinstein Show, which provided excerpts for our podcast, was produced by Matthew Saul. You can watch the full interview at Bloomberg dot com. Just look for the David Rubinstein Show on our main navigation bar. We'll see you next week.