Welcome to another fantastic episode of The Pod Mill. The Pod Mill is a great episode of Founder's Therapy. Super, super excited to be here with always Matt Wonderly and no adjective for me. Of course not why. You're Matt Wonderly. You don't need an adjective but to your left the unstoppable Craig Hammond. Little more vanilla this week. That was but I appreciate it. But I appreciate it. I think we should have Rachel introduce them because they're both Shark Tank alumni. And I love Connor.
He's like one of my dear students. I don't know. He's so nice. We're more important than Matt and Matt. More important than Matt and Matt. I guess this week we have the amazingly talented, incredible entrepreneur Rachel Nielsen. Thank you. Did I pronounce your last name correctly? Good job. Well done. Thank you for coming. Of course I'm happy to be here. Rachel is the founder and CEO of Rags. Formerly Rags to Raches. Yeah. Officially Rags Now. Good call.
I mean we still are Rags to Raches on Instagram but it's rags.com. Yeah. Amazing rompers. Really fashion line now. You're you've expanded beyond the rompers right? Yep. So she has an incredible story so we invited her here to just talk about that. Share some insights and inspire our listeners. So Rachel why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Oh where do I begin? Okay. So I started Rags. Let's see I have three boys. My youngest was almost one and my husband was in law school.
Where was this? Utah. Oh okay. So he was attending you of you University of Utah and he was almost done and we really had no money and and I started selling my kids hand me down clothes on Instagram and that's where the name Rags to Raches came. And I came up with a one piece for my toddler at the time and I wanted something that wasn't cheesy easy to slide on and off that didn't have the snaps and he was so wriggly and and I always have been into fashion.
So as I was selling my kids hand me down so I was noticing things are selling the stuff that I made for my kids was selling so much faster and for more money and that was just on Instagram. That was only Instagram. Crazy. Instagram was like wild lot less back then. No algorithms. It was like just starting everybody you know that's fantastic. Oh it's like podcasts that's why I love it so much. Totally.
I can rob trains I can do all kinds of crazy stuff I can run for mayor like nobody cares it's great. Nobody's watching yet. I'm from May. It's my tear and I can do what I want. That's right. Mayor right. I like that. So let's see we so I made this I made this one piece and put it on my little guy took a photo of it and posted and people were like so amped on it and I knew immediately that I could probably do that and sell them just directly through social media.
I had done adult clothing back in the day and it was it was through a boutique and like skate shops and they were taking half my margin and internet really didn't exist. People didn't really shop online. And then you know I had my kids and I kind of got burned out from that and so this was like a great I woke up at like 4 a.m. and it dawned on me like I could literally sell directly to the consumer anywhere in the world through this app.
And so I started by cutting just a bunch of my husband's t-shirts and selling them and they were selling so fast it almost got to a point where I was like cursing every order because I had to like go and make it and ship it and you were doing all of it. All of it. Everything. That's a fantastic problem though right. Yeah it was like best best case scenario you know.
But it did get to a point where it was getting so busy that I knew I had to get into a manufacturer and I had learned this lesson prior you know I was sewing all the adult clothing and that's really what burned me out. It was selling so well that I didn't have a life and I played college soccer at the time and I had a good group of friends that I wanted to hang out with and I was young. So money to me was like me as long as I have gas. I don't you know so that wasn't like motivating you know.
But I did learn I have no business sitting behind a sewing machine all day I'll burn myself out. So when rags came along I knew I needed to get into a manufacturer's fast like I had no experience like I didn't go to school for this and I just asked around and found a local manufacturer and got them in and started manufacturing probably like four months after I had initially like seeded the product to our audience. So innovation out of necessity right. Absolutely.
We are showing this ambition of hey we poor poor college students we need some money like most people in our networks where you get married pretty young you're still in school and you're going into debt. This is quite the story right. I mean being able to see that you've got this pain point and you're innovating to stay alive. Yeah totally. It was I mean we were on Medicaid food stamps no literally broke crazy. So it's almost like the best case scenario for me because you can only go up.
You know it didn't feel risky it was like yeah financially right. Yeah financially. I have no money. Yeah. I literally took the money I was selling from my kids hand me down and just rolling it into rags. Yeah so do you you had kids at this time. I had all of them all you had all three. Yeah. Oh three boys. So you're married in school in school. Both go into school. No I was just at home. You were done with the three kids yeah.
Husbands in law school and three kids you like that that's a holy cow. That is a holy cow. That's a good list. Yeah. Put it in my mouth. Yeah because not. Yes it is trying to make this PG after last week. So you had three kids it's not just oh I'm making all of the clothes it's your husbands in school. Yeah. What kind of school was it? He was law school. Law school. Yeah. So he's studying all day.
Exactly. Yeah. You've got three kids and then you've also got a cut and sew and ship and that's crazy. Curious was it covered through loans or were you supporting him. So no he had to do loans. Yeah we were going into massive amount of debt but they don't do they don't give you a ton of money like we don't I just I got like 10 grand every six months to my MBA for like 20 grand. Yeah. It's nothing. I think I think it was close I think it was less than that even. Yeah it was like I yeah we were.
So let's let's keep pushing that story forward you within four months you had to find somebody to do your manufacturing. What I want to hear about is like how quickly did you get from there to where you were like holy smokes this is crazy tell us where it got in or when it got into shark tank. How is it yeah what's happened since you moved manufacturing. Yeah so so got a manufactured I knew I needed to do that immediately. That was like a massive learning curve in and of itself.
Nothing ever comes the way you expect it to come you so that was always interesting. I hired my first employee I think six months in. Six months. And maybe maybe five months customer service and shipping. It was like give me give me out of there. I have no I have no business. Staying up like all night answering emails and shipping and it was like if I really want to grow this thing I should I should be doing other stuff. Got to hire up.
Yeah. What was your mentality because I have something similar in terms of all the sudden it changed from can I do this to just mastering the growth like being able to have it be sustainable.
So what was your mindset of all the sudden like on Monday I'm getting you know like a hundred orders on Tuesday I'm in Tuesday Wednesday Thursday I'm cutting and working and sewing and shipping so hard and Friday I'm like I need to do I need to do different like I guess what what was the mental shift from you from I can do this all myself to this is now growing so big to for me the biggest shift was there's not 24 hours more in a day like time became this weird limiting factor.
So what was the shift in your mind where it was like okay I need help in a good way like I need to grow. Yeah I mean the good news is we were social media makes it very obvious whether or not you have something immediately like it's maybe explain that it's like immediate validation you you were still you're when your early days Instagram like you said earlier prior to
the podcast recording it wasn't big no no algorithms it was still pretty new but you had engaging customers like it my Instagram was growing so fast that the when when I would load product on our website it was selling in seconds so it was like the demand was clearly there it was never in fact because of that it kind of shaped the whole model it kind of like our brand is a limited edition clothing line for kids.
And and I I think me as a person just the only that made sense to get people back to my website was making limited edition clothing all the time so it was like make this make it a little bit different and honestly I was buying remnant fabric from LA so like literally I could not make those ever again.
So it wasn't mass it was like very low quantities small runs and it ended up selling out really fast and I realized like the power of film oh was a real part of my business you know and it was like easy for me to market that because I had something fresh and need to talk about all of the time. Wow I've heard that there is quite the like black market resale market for rags. I just don't go for like $4.50. That's what I heard that they're hundreds. Yeah yeah so crazy.
That's probably really like inspiring you're like wow people love it that much but at the same time do you feel kind of jilted like you're like oh man no. No I had some of you last that and I've never I honestly think that that's such a good indicator of the health of your brand. Yeah sure. To me it doesn't feel threatening at all. It's more it's a it's a good indicator of the health of your brand. If that wasn't going on then I start to worry like oh are we stale. Yeah. I go it's sold for $2.
Totally. And honestly because we're such a social brand it creates this chatter that it like makes people like holy crap people who are reselling these for that much what is it about the product and and we've learned that eight out of ten people that buy come back and buy again eight out of ten. It's like our attention is ridiculous.
That's so high and it's because you know I think in in the beginning they'll maybe buy it from a used person at even sometimes they go for 20 bucks and it's more affordable but they'll come back and they'll buy full price from us because they see the product as quality. But why is easier? Why else is that is that because you're potentially well I going back to what you or said earlier no two pieces of clothing were the same is that still the case is that still part of your brand.
We still do so because that's really hard to scale and honestly when you're going into mass you can't go to LA and buy a remnant fabric. There was there was points in the business when when we expanded into retail and the fabric content I had no clue what was even in the fabric you can't do that. Right. We had a girl up you know.
So so we still that is still such a part of the business I think it's important for for rags to keep that limited you know that that factor but also it's been a challenge because how do you scale and stay true to limited right you don't want to sell out.
So we've had to segment the brand and we have we have now what's what we call the essential line which is like a more in stock position people come in and they a lot of people don't really care to fight others for a rag you know they just want the product and so we need to like be able to cater to them as well as those that are like into getting on at 10 a.m. and buying something immediately you know.
So okay this is so this is so so fast and remind us racing because I ever when I'm hearing you talk I keep looking over at crack because he's in a very similar business or at least vertical and children's clothing it's it and I'm over here like man I wish the we were like that. Come on. And then we still PGM that's for 500 per right every now and then my kids pissing this now here's can do.
Throughout the day Craig and I was sharing office and throughout the day I hear him just kind of get down on himself when there's breath like we didn't hit our goal in sales this week. We were talking Rachel and I were talking about that right. I mean tell us tell us a little more about how you deal with that because I know what Craig does he comes over and wants to try and wrestle me to get his frustration out. You lie like that. I'm half your size. What are you saying?
I just sit back and drink Motte and cry. He does get some tears in his eyes and you can tell he just floats out the window and he's like oh my gosh he's daydreaming about certain things and getting a little depressed but what are you doing in that same moment because you have peaks in Valley so you're going to have times of the year where you're not selling nearly enough and especially go back to when you first started this what that was like okay I need I need money to get through school.
Provide for my family because my husband's studying. I've got three kids at home I'm taking remnant material and sewing them together and selling bespoke clothing. Right. Pretty cool idea but boy that must have been extremely anxiety-ridden moments. Those moments must have been extremely stressful. I think I mean this is crazy but like I said I think we started with nothing so really those moments to me only are good.
It was like who cares and the demand was so high it was like I really can't keep up. So I would say now is where it's more stressful where I have real employees with real salaries with families I have investors now. I have my own family like things have evolved to be very real whereas back in the day it was like I didn't even care about the revenue. You had nothing to lose right? Dude I had nothing to lose. We were so poor that I literally was fine.
It was like I'm going to make sure no matter what my kids eat and there's a roof over my head. That's really where what I've got to do. Is that drive that ambition that drives you to that point right? I mean it is fun to build. There's something about building that is like this weird adrenaline that makes you tech. I don't think money has ever been my motivator. Like it is nice. What are your motivators? I mean I enjoy relationships. I enjoy like working with my employees.
I enjoy problem solving. I enjoy like a chaotic atmosphere. I think being an entrepreneur it's never boring. It's always a weird adrenaline. I feel like any entrepreneur has like this drive for adrenaline. And you did entrepreneur. That's fascinating too Rachel because most of the people we interview as entrepreneurs are well I mean not most but a lot are driven by negative drivers that are like you know I need to prove these people wrong.
That doesn't sound like where you're coming from it's very different. That's refreshing. Yeah it's different. Tell us more about the positive drivers. They sound positive anyway. Yeah I mean there's definitely now that I have now that I have people I'm answering to say like I brought on money and I have investors and stuff. I think that I have to sometimes shift that because I'll all tend to get to a point where I'm like cares about revenue like it will come you know it always does everything.
Everything works out you know where now I'm like well I'm going to get a job. Oh this is like a structured thing that we have to actually hit our numbers. And I still am like who cares we'll get there. Like I think it's like you know when I hear that people are stressed out about hitting their revenue. For me I've come to the conclusion that you can only sell as much as your consumer will allow.
And it's like there's really as long as I'm working my butt off and I'm staying true to what I believe as far as brand goes and good quality product and making it cool and unique and different. I feel like there's really not a ton I can do other than that and it's really sometimes that's really hard to like push into other people's brains. Is this a gender difference do you think? I'm really curious. I mean it can be a female per camel probably. Yeah the mindset.
Yeah I don't have an ego like I don't really have. That's a great answer. I don't feel a need and maybe it's more on the female side like oh I need to prove myself that I can be a successful woman. I've never felt like I've not been on the same playing field as guys. That's cool. Like I've never felt like they haven't added they haven't up on me. Actually I think I have an edge because of my gender honestly. Like I think it's just unique.
I think women can be so endearing to have a woman in front of a table of guys in the boardroom that isn't afraid to be emotional that isn't afraid. I feel like oftentimes women will think they need to mold into this like bitchy hard-ass personality or else people won't take them seriously and I don't think the world needs that. I think the world is craving the opposite. I think the world needs it. Oh totally needs it. Right. We need to be able to embrace the vulnerability.
We need to be able to embrace like weakness. So draw that out of you a little bit. I mean if I'm a listener and I'm hearing you say these things and I'm a male and I'm an entrepreneur I'm thinking gosh that sounds so refreshing and I could really benefit from this. Where do I start? Well I mean where do you start? Where does it come from? It's like try not to just say it's innate like in two and a half minutes. I know I have to be willing to be vulnerable myself.
I have to be willing to sit in the room with people and be like hey I don't know. I totally blew it or hey it's cool. Figure it out rather than then being constantly on the defense and I'm smart I'm smart I'm smart I swear. See look I'm going to prove to you guys how how good I am. It's like no like I don't I don't know that's why I hired you because you know more than I do and there really has to be no ego and it has to start from the top.
It has to be and then that will open up and honestly I think that any any leader that I looked up to or respect are ones that lead out of like vulnerability that lead out of that don't lead from fear. They don't want you to fear them you know they want to get on your level and they want to understand rather than you should be scared of me and intimidated by me and how dairy disrespect you. You've got this affect of tranquility.
I mean it's just like this calming presence like that you bring it's very cool and it's very different than what we're used to or not to say that any other guest on the show has been incredibly intense maybe Nick Staggy. I mean intense there but not kidding Nick you're not that intense but I you know Rachel brings us really calming presence and maybe talk a little bit more about that because that's such a like Craig said a second ago a need especially in the entrepreneurial world where
we're so full of gotta move fast and break things or we have to get to this product we got a launch before yada yada yada right we've got to get to market fast and that causes a lot of mental stress of ego brings out the worst of us ego narcissism and uber competition like men are highly competitive where I don't know if women are I'm not alone.
I mean I am so I'm very competitive like I played called soccer I I am like you can put me on the playing field and I will kick your ass but I can like I can get off and give you a giant hug and be like good game this is you know what I mean I think there's
so many I could talk about this forever but I feel like for me especially and and having up my brand be so socially out there and I have the I'm like the face of it it's it's been really important for me not to allow my business and the success or failures to define who
I am and I think a lot of people do that you run into people that have succeeded and done really really well and they change how long it take for you to realize that though I read out the date that was a name right out the gate it was like don't change always stay freaking true to who you are.
Matt got this purchase order and all of a sudden he's just like act like I can tell you just like no first is the work of the sort I'm in software man but my industry is totally major fail but dude I also feel like on the other end of that there's there's
CEOs that are like major lead oppressed and you hear about these suicides that are so that are so tragic and it's probably because they're allowing the failure of their business to define who they are as a person totally and dude that is hard it's still hard for me.
So that's what I was going to get to because I think that everybody entrepreneur, toddler lawyer whatever whatever you are whoever you are you have situational depression or happening sometimes and I think that it's accentuated when you're running a business right because you might have something that goes great in the next day it's like crap
it's so sad. No it's just fell through or whatever you know how do you manage that better to try and stay so even kill because like Matt said you're very calm you're very tranquil do you find that you do have those situational peaks and valleys or I think that's why
I do it is because it's never boring there's peaks there's valleys it's like this constant problem solving that's really do maintain your level headedness like you're you're collected niff I do my best yeah I would love to see you upset what is this stress to you ever get
upset that's really yes yes I can be very I can like be insanely intense I think what what's your husband on the line right now I'm saying for real you have to be like no this chick I think I think for me it's just and and continue it's it's an ongoing process
really because it's never ending stress it's never ending weird stuff's going to happen you know this every day this guy's falling I mean I I I need to make sure I take care of myself mentally so I enjoy riding my bike mountain biking I do yoga I stay active
every almost every day I do something do you have a routine are you trying to know because I suck at scheduling like at some point in the day I want to be able to go and do that for myself yeah I talked to a psychologist last week and I was like I told him I said
trying to schedule a routine or like schedule my day I said sounds like torture I do have a morning routine because it helps me set the day like it frames the day really well but when it comes down to if I have a calendar then I'm be holding to it's like literally
no worse than I'm saying it gives me anxiety it's awful it gives everybody else in my office anxiety too like why can't you just stick to your freaking calendar I love hearing that because that's the the girl that I'm getting right now like she has get up exercise
do this do this and it is based on routine and I'm the same way where it's like every day is just like this little clean slate like it's it's not I understand the value in it and I understand the the discipline that comes from that she is just so like iron well
hyper discipline I'm an aspiring discipline person in that kind of space for any military listeners out there please disregard this segment because you are much more disciplined than we are but I think too like it comes a thing like something happens so hypothetically you
know something negative kind of happens with my business well that's a great time to go work the heavy bag like that's a great time to pick up some kettlebells right but it's reactionary but again everyone it's okay successful yeah I think that's a healthy escape
right it's like you know that's me it's like there are moments that I'll get home and be like hey no negotiation I have to go to yoga or I have to go over my bike because when you're doing stuff outside of being in the weeds you realize that the problem is not that
big sure it's like it's not it can feel so big and it can honestly paralyze me how old is your oldest 12 12 so in house babysitter it's what I'm gonna say so you're getting it as crucial to where crucial but I didn't always have that you know I still what did you
do when you didn't have that I would arrange it I literally like I think one I would I would we would get a babysitter every single week like one night a week just to go do something like they're that's so important just for you and your husband to get out yeah I think
I think in order to maintain like a stable head in general you have to you have to figure out what are your three or four top priorities and never let those shift like everybody always asks what's well how do you balance it all which is super frustrating it's like
dude I don't at all and and the expectation that I should I think is lame I don't balance it all human right yeah but it's but and that also is very daunting if you feel like oh I suck at balancing because I always felt like that but I've come to realize like figuring
out what are like the things that make me happier and what's gonna make me better mom a better friend a better boss make sure that you always keep those in check rather than getting so lost in the weeds because I've gotten so lost in the weeds where you almost
like take advantage of your relationships or unconditional love that that is surrounding you to a place where you can feel insanely isolated you know how do you get out of the weeds so you said you kind of said that a few times and again nobody's perfect right like
you deviate things happen you think you're going the right way ultimately it requires a you turn in order to quote get back on track when you find yourself looking around you're like this is where I want to be how do you course correct I mean I feel like that's constant
right it's like as as I think some of the best entrepreneurs are the ones that always have their head on a swivel and are willing to pivot immediately you know and fast so I think that's a strength but but in order to get out of the weeds and realize that I
guess would be taking care of my mental health honestly like there's staying sure yeah there's moments where it's like this feels so big and I'm paralyzed truly like I don't know what to do nothing feels worse than that by the way so we're feeling like I don't
know what to do here sure but but I've I've done I've done this long enough and I know myself well enough that I know if I get out and I'm doing something that makes my heart like heartbeat rise and it gets my head distracted where I don't have to think it's
force it like I used to go play soccer a ton because it was like it would force me I couldn't think about my business I was like I had or I thought I'd gotten hurt you know so something something you know figure out what that is for for yourself not everybody's going to go
want to do mountain biking soccer you go whatever but figure everybody has something figure out what that is and force it force yourself make time make time you will lose your damn mind I feel like it's it's only because I've gotten there where it's like whoa that's
the and then and then then what it's not fun like why am I doing this it's like great this is good money for my family and whatever but really like at the end of the day it's so see through to your consumer if you're not enjoying what you do if you're not passionate
about it you're just total hollow brand yeah it's it's which no pressure you can't always have to be on your game but I think just going through and figuring out what makes you was there a point in which you like really realize like okay I need to turn things
around totally emotionally yes what led you to that was there like a certain set of experiences like was it hyper growth was it when you took on VC money and you realized how hard that was what put you in that position when you were like holy crap I'm like I'm
low and I need to climb back up I mean taking on VCs and and talking revenue like you come you come to the table with these numbers that that feels so big and when you don't hit those three months in a row and you have to walk into a board meeting and be like hey
I fully blew it that is daunting that is paralyzing and I think perspective truly like shifting your perspective and it still is daunting it still sucks honestly the skill though right I mean being honest and is completely transparent in those board meetings is of its paramount
right but it's also a skill I in the case in point I remember talking to an early stage investor right and he said to me particularly as I'm raising this next round we aren't early stage investor we invest in these increments which is very early and then he comes back
me week later says oh you're too early for us I don't care if you don't like the industry I'm in or if you don't like personally just tell me the truth right be honest with me yep right don't sit here and tell me that you're an early stage investor and they say
that I'm too early for you because that's absolutely yeah yeah right yeah so I mean you've had to learn that skill of facing your board members and these VCs that you've had to tell hey listen we've had poor performance last quarter yep is that something you had to learn
over time was that just you personally no I think that's where it comes back to I honestly feel like that's almost endearing to them like it's so appreciated it's like me as an entrepreneur want to know I think my employee fails me if he's not telling me or she isn't telling me that
there's a massive fire over here and I'm not willing and I'm not even aware of it you know like that is such a fail it's like I know that that might be scary and you might be afraid of like losing your job but the biggest risk to the company is that you don't speak up so I also understand that
as as I'm going into investors but I also feel like I picked great investors you know they're so patient they've all like one of them is is the CEO of Trigger Jeremy Anderson he's built he's built brands he understands it you know and and just like said just being transparent and open
and honest it's it's almost like that builds way more trust and they're more willing to help you when you when you can do that so as you prepare to go into these meetings you know you're you're expecting to be a little bit honest you know and but how do you prepare yourself to go into
because I know there's going to be a listener out here saying yeah I've got a board meeting coming up and I'm always freaking out before I go to these meetings what does Rachel do to prepare herself for that I mean I went on Shark Tank and that was like the most terrifying oh yeah tell
us about that oh yeah it was I mean we'll tie back into this it's like you're going in and it's genuine it's like you're going into to these four sharks who are wanting to shred you because that's good ratings right that's great TV it's entertaining and and so I even do it I mean
it's like I mean it's under the question because the I one it's like why not like you have to lose yeah nothing to lose it's like I'm in of course I'm gonna jump off that even at the risk of getting shredded but I was also really confident in myself my product and my numbers so I think if I went
in there with with really crappy numbers and and not a great product and not a cool story how would it look a lot different how long would you been around when you went out it was probably it was a little over a year okay yeah so tell us a little bit more details yeah it's just
yoga beforehand or something no I wasn't even I don't mean that fluently I know but you kind of it was terrifying they tell you like if you come in and you pitch to the sharks you have one shot and and if you don't nail it like you're gone and the next one comes in that's what your producer
was telling you yeah and they were saying there's no pressure but like this kind of once in a lifetime nine million viewers by the way you're in the food yeah you do so much better on shark tink than correct you thanks dude you crushed it Craig this is the first thing that I brought up to
when we met like I told her straight up I was like honestly I like studied your pitch oh that's all that's terrified but it didn't come across that way you were like the most likable entrepreneur to pitch you just seemed so natural so natural so comfortable
and I know that when I got out there in hindsight right as soon as the onslaught of questions came on I was just like business like I lost my smile and I was just like like a robot you know nobody likes a robot it's probably why it's an air is because I was like a cyborg but
right it's intense I think I think this goes back to the board meeting question and anybody if they're fearing their board it's like it was the same with shark tink it's like I had to get to a place in my mind where I was like hey these guys have started somewhere and they don't know it all
like if we worked with Disney I had to go pitch Disney Marvel and Star Wars they were all in one room same thing and it was like dude this is it was no it was so easy because I realized like hey these are just people that are sitting behind a desk every single day trying to do their job easy when
you put it in that context but that's the reality that is the reality think about it it's just a it's just another person change your mindset to thinking they're just then it's like then you can smile then you can be like I don't freaking know like if if they're asking you don't have to be
that person that's key it's changing the mindset understanding this is a same with the board meeting yeah it's the exact same it's like your every person in there has started somewhere and some people are gonna be cooler than others and some people are gonna have egos and some people
aren't and some people are gonna want to prove themselves in a board meeting making you look like an idiot those are people that you should probably choose not to even work with but but most of time it's like you can sit down on a table and and there's like this comradery there's this understanding
that like we've all been here before and you're all on the same team right those investors have put money into betting and you saying like we believe you can succeed so if you go in like they're your adversary it's almost destined to fail and it's okay to to not know it's like I think that
that is endearing I really do I think if you watch somebody on Shark Tank for instance and they're just a freaking know it all you immediately are like like let's shred this guy get him off it's true you know but if they're like good question I really don't know you're like rooting for them you're
like okay I want to help I want to support that you know you had mentioned you know investors and even picking who you got to work with which is super cool you're in that good position what made you decide to go the investor route like what was the predicate in your business that
was like okay now we've gone from growth we've gone from employees we've gone from Shark Tank to investors like how did you make that decision yeah that's a good question I never wanted to take on investors you don't seem like the person that does yeah yeah yeah it was like a real battle mentally
honestly I met Jeremy at an event and he was so cool and so interested in the business and we just kept in touch and I really just wanted his insight and and it got to a point where he was like hey I would love to help you but I want to give you money like so then it's he has skin
in the game and it's probably worth his time his time so valuable and which I totally understood but it took me like eight months to get to the point where I was like okay Jeremy let's do this so did you bring on institutional money or are you just with Jeremy and a few other like angels
that put in seed how did that work so naturally I was only going to take on Jeremy um smart money like that just smart money we didn't need cash honestly it was more just his network and his brain it's like all right that actually is really that would be wise for me Jeremy actually
introduced us to kickstart seed fund here and they came in like two weeks before we were supposed to close and I talked to him shut on the brand and they really wanted in on the deal and Jeremy was rad and and because I didn't want to dilute myself more you know so he took a little bit of delusion and and they came in and they've been really great we have now you know we have we have
we have one of the board members from supreme out in the yard and then uh F.A.O. Schwars and Diggies and a bunch of like really cool brand gurus and it all really was just like smart like I just want people at the table that understand that's interesting you bring that up because you get a lot of
bunch of viewers out there who are struggling in a different industry who need capital upfront right to get launched right to build product or whatever you weren't in that position so uh it's it's it's interesting to see how you were able to build that with what seems ostensibly
little resistance or little trouble right yeah I mean I just kind of attracted you attracted it to you yeah I think I think our brand was I mean it's special and there was energy and that that but also I think what was cool was and Jeremy said this I remember this was like in the first time
we met he was talking about how he's at a point in his life where he wants to make sure that when he's working with people and they call him at 4 p.m. on a Sunday afternoon he stoked dance of the phone and I was like that is like a really good check of like for sure who you want to partner with
who you want to work with because think about that like there's times in my life where I've been like oh like I can't even answer this phone call so we do that Jeremy on next to you that I hope that I'm still before one more call for Rachel right Jeremy will have you on
and we'll verify everything but I think I think one the business obviously they looked he looked into the business but two I think it was like I like you like I I think this could be fun and really at the end of the day he's already set financially he just wants to surround
himself with fun good solid people and it's honestly the same as me money I've said this money does not drive me it's like quality of life and relationships but that that that piece of your business surrounding yourself with the right people right being strategic with smart people
that's got to be less stressful on you right knowing that your business isn't good hands you've got good brains around it and a lot of experience yeah you think I thought the same okay so tell us what do you mean I think it's because I mean I don't want to let them down I like love them
and respect them and I'm like there is an added pressure that I never thought I would feel once I took their money it was like has that changed your quality of life you mentioned that it did it did for like a good year and I I have had to fully reevaluate and hire and make sure that
and and what's been really interesting is they understand quality life too and and the entrepreneur needs to be I didn't want to lead out of fear I feel like you're a poor leader if you're leading out of fear yeah you make dumb decisions yeah you make dumb decisions so I have a soul founder right
you don't have a co-founder okay so that's that's even more pressure yes it's on you know it's so isolating you cannot you have nobody to share that with it's like I all the pressure do you feel like you share that a little bit more now that you have a border that you have you know
sea level it away yeah yeah because I'm still in that position I only have one board member investor partner or whatever and it's just me so I still am like oh man like I think that there's always going to be I think there's always I mean hence your podcast there's always going to be there's
always going to be this isolation factor if you don't have like a co-founder or somebody you know there really is I don't know it's so daunting what do you do to work through that isolation since you don't have a co-founder I mean I'm still there you know I don't know I think it's just
networking with other CEOs honestly and I'm in like masterminds with other CEOs and that's helpful yeah isn't it liberating though in some sense like when I very first started this company I did have a partner and and I was defaulting to him on a lot of things just due to his kind of
expertise but when he kind of stepped out of the picture then it was up to me to kind of grow or let it fail it was like all right well what about all these great ideas that weren't quote good and now I have a chance to kind of experiment and execute on him and like watching those succeed
for me has been extremely empowering so for you you pick the fabric in California you got all the things you're making the style right the the company is an expression of your creativity that has to be reinforcing and invigorating and empowering I mean outweighing the isolation right
like yeah this business succeeded because of Rachel that that is such a good point because I feel like sometimes I get lost in that even where and they call like imposter syndrome where you're like dude I'm such a fraud that's our pee we heard been like word of the day that sets off all the
buzzers around here is imposter syndrome every time someone says imposter syndrome Craig goes bells go off the Craig's mind I don't know how to hear more about this dude it's it's because and I would say if like I just have like a bell button to put it totally but it's a real freaking thing and I
and I just I just did another podcast actually oddly on in imposter syndrome because I would say if somebody said what was like the biggest lesson that you've learned like thus far it's to it's that imposter syndrome is real and to understand and recognize that you got the business to
where it is because you are smart and like if people I mean they say some higher smarter I have a really smart board I have like really experienced people surrounding me where oftentimes I feel like very inept and I feel like I need to rely on them to to help run the company and sometimes
I've done that and it's almost run us into the ground I haven't fully trusted my capability of like really being able to do this because I've been surrounded by so many smart people so not to maybe bring up your age but you're not you're not yet 40 you're still I'm 37 quite young right that's a
great angeman you're quite young right we're all we're all right there we're all the same right but my point is I'm assuming most of your board if not all of them are significantly older yes so that's also intimidating right and like wow you have all this experience why shouldn't I listen to
every single thing that you say like how how dare I push back but there has been instances this would be the biggest lesson is to continue to credit myself for where we've come and where we've gotten and and to also recognize that if I walked it wouldn't be what it is but that is freaking
it's it sounds so simple and obvious but that is that is that it would be the biggest challenge I think for me and still like I need to make sure I hire smart and I'm able to empower them to make good decisions are you open with your board about about that me it was actually with my
board that we did the podcast oh did you really yeah okay so you're talking about imposter syndrome with your board totally yeah why not you're like guys I'm a total fraud thanks for the money yeah I'm out of here but you know what's interesting is as they all can relate that's
really why we all gone through it all of them still go through it I honestly think that it can be kind of debilitating inward right like to your own psyche it's kind of debilitating but I think on the other side of the coin you look at it it's like it's actually a really good way to stay humble
because rather than having a big ego and saying like I did this I'm amazing forget everybody else you're kind of staying humble while also trying to recognize which is the harder part but like you said recognize that the company is successful because of you right why what what what what kind of
leader would you rather work for I think I'd rather work for somebody that hasn't post your senior same that's a total same that's humble then somebody else that's like no I'm everything is I know everything like your PR I've worked with people like that it's not the
couple can I work for both of you come on over get to get to time yeah I don't know anything about your businesses or your industry about money only because you anyway you it's not about us you bicker about it all the time I'm just kidding but I think that's where it comes back to just like
being a leader out of a humility really and not having a ego I think that's so important I look up to it admire and have tried to surround myself with people that lead out of humility rather than that lead out of fear so here's here's a bit of a pivot in the conversation but it's it's important
because it's relevant and tell us a little bit about because most entrepreneurs that we deal with are are married and kind of mature and into their their marriages 10 or so years you're you're about the same right you're well into 15 years and you started when your husband was in law
school is there I'm assuming he's still practicing law yeah okay in Salt Lake he's in house council for a unique oh very cool how nice very cool so how does that dynamic play out at home we don't have a traditional marriage like it's very non-traditional which I was literally just talking about
this today I have three boys and it's like dude it's so rad that that my three boys are going to grow up thinking that that's totally normal like women can go out and work and be successful but also be great moms totally you know and and it's the same like I didn't I didn't want him to
quit his job something to last for that like you know I'm quit is he gonna come over and it's like no dude I think it's important that he has his own thing too you know I think that that just the way we work it's nice to have our own our own our own right it's it's not that yeah that's
something I've got three boys as well and I want them to see I mean the world's changing totally we have to have a different mindset and how we view society so to be able to see their mother running a successful business and their father as a successful attorney that's powerful right so how
are you how are you teaching them that though just leading by example day to day or is it something that you're trying to instill in them verbally or I think I think this is all they've known that's what I was talking about with I was actually talking about my sister today because because also I
enjoy going out and riding my bike and I play soccer and I go rock climbing and I do things that are probably not typical it's not like dinner in a movie and I'm not home with them all day you know we're empowered to do that too right totally I don't mean to interrupt but like seeing mom have the
capability to go do that where it's not that dad's gone all day comes home beat he's tired but mom has been watching the kids all day she's even more tired like she didn't she doesn't take time for herself and they just slowly grind each other into oblivion right in 1950s yes mom's going out on
that bike mom's got a sick bike by the way it's freaking awesome and she also has great rock climbing gear and we go to the rock climbing gym and we do these things as a family like that in my mind that would empower me to as a kid to like I can do anything totally I think that I fail if they
don't feel that way for sure and I also think I fail if they don't think that women are that way exactly what do you what do you tell the aspiring woman entrepreneur there's women out here that they're gonna be listening and there's thinking that you know what I just don't know if I can take that
leap or that risk is like a kids at home or now is the time what's what's your advice it's like now is better than ever you know there there's internet there you can still be a stay at home mom and and be a great stay at home mom and run a business I started I started at home I there's
the internet it's like look at us we're all forced into isolation because of COVID and somehow businesses are thriving they're doing well and people are not going into the office every day it is different the the the the times have changed where if it's like now is like the best time
to be able to do both so you've got all your tools at your fingertips and if you're a woman and you're looking to get an entrepreneurship your your mom as well you have a spouse it's it's not too late and you have all these tools and I'll just power on your fingertips but
how do I get over this mental hurdle of wanting to jump into it okay I got all the tools around I mean all the resources but I am still stuck on this I don't know if I could take that leap I mean I never would have envisioned rags to do what it did and and I think if I would have
thought that far in advance it probably would have been paralyzing you know but it also had been exciting and that's something that I wanted I think I think understanding that when you start it doesn't have to be perfect and and really people started it started from
nothing and and then also in my mind it's like it kind of goes back to nobody knows what they're doing really like nobody really knows that's the true for all learning right everybody is learning and that's so not daunting so being really really it's being willing to fail absolutely being vulnerable enough to fail and just grinding like if you can grind a key to herman word grinding grinding hustler and imposter syndrome but that's the truth it's like I mean I for me I remember telling my
husband you can go and fail the bar and nobody will ever know I can fail at rags and everybody will know because it's so exposed there's so it's all over social media it's in everybody's face that is very obvious and that's freaking scary it's so not still scary to you it's failure will always
I think if you have a healthy level of fear it's going to continue to drive you yeah but is that reputation does that concern you it goes back to I can't allow my business to define who I am perfect whether it be success or failure it's like that you have to understand that there's so much
more struggle the long rags around six years six years okay so it's yeah that's that's six years of every month or week or day you have to remind yourself not to get full of yourself and not worry about the reputation or get down on yourself or get down on yourself yeah yeah so is
that is that where your exercising comes in your yoga that I mean that's where priorities it's like it's like rags rags is great and all but I need to make sure that all that went away I would still be insanely happy it's a priorities that's not like a routine families kids my mental health
like if if rags blew up tomorrow I still need to be able to function as a human and I still need to make sure that I'm happy that's great advice you know yeah does your board of value in who you are does your success but do you are inherently so it's all agree and is your board agree with it
absolutely because you have to pick your board right you make sure you align yourselves they want us to succeed and they want to see a return on their investment I'm not I'm no you know that's not news to me that's I wouldn't have taken their money if I didn't think I could do that but they
also understand the risk of a founder or lunchpunor that isn't genuinely passionate and happy their money is gone at that point it's it's so high risk if the entrepreneur doesn't keep keep passionate about their their business and brand and in order to do that there's things that you
have to do you know in fact they're like let's get you more help so that you can be a better entrepreneur so that this is you keep you you don't burn out their biggest fear is burnout and in order to avoid burnout it there's like other things in me to take place that thing that's great burnout is is
is crucial to start recognizing early I mean I work weird hours of the day international hours so I get burned out someday as a refute dependent on caffeine is that sometimes it's truth with you I mean yeah distributing internationally right now I don't know
maybe give us a little plug in about where you guys yeah I mean we're we're we are obsessed with the United States I feel like we barely scrolls the surface but we definitely we sell outside of the US are you working wonky hours I was I mean I have a team now and that goes back to really
trying to make sure that you're dependent on any sort of substance I do I tell my team please don't schedule any meeting after 3 p.m. because my brain is literally fried I pointless to you and and coffee I drink so you're not quite Jeremy Andrews' status where at 4 p.m. you excited
to start talking to people you're not quite there I is I don't even know how he does it honestly we're just giving a great shout out to Jeremy what up phenomenal we're like practically begging him to come out so how many cups of coffee are you on each day hey it's I've scaled back and luckily I have
yeah because I don't know if it's good to it pales and comparison to Craig's Mottex yeah I'm concerned with Craig's hummingbird heart over here I know all that Montaille fifth Montaille even with like 300 milligrams of caffeine good for you that's because you're so fit
you're like a statue of David's top it that's true let's pivot back to Rachel I want to hear about mountain biking I kind of want to like rapid fire ask you some questions what kind of mountain bike do you have I have a Santa Cruz nomad it's good like it what's your favorite trail in Utah
or outside of Utah I have trails right by my house vertigo levitate they're just oh yeah okay so you're just like that is that outline yeah yeah drop down the backside okay and then park city they have like it's amazing I went to go this morning with a friend of mine oh
fun we were half a mile up was have you done was it's like right at the summit of of Parley's Canyon oh cool and we're half mile up and my chain snaps oh sucky dang it what is your favorite like source of self-care like what is your go-to if you're like I need some me time something active
rock climbing I've just got into that super fun yoga soccer biking like something active I don't I don't enjoy just sitting something to keep my brain occupied I think do you think mountain biking surf is getting boring to you but I actually think this is really great I'm bored correct
I want to I want to ask you about mountain biking because the thing that I love so much about mountain biking is I feel like it's really you have to pay really close attention because yeah if you don't do you feel like that helps you even though it's something you have to focus so intently on does
it help your brain relax for the other yeah yeah I think that's kind of interesting I think that's key that's why I was saying soccer it's like you get hurt if you're not fully paying attention to what's going on same with biking yoga was actually really boring for me and and I've started to
realize like if if I really can mentally like just be present on my mat for one hour which that is the heart like I can do the physical stuff it's the mental that's why I go and like really training my brain to stop thinking about rags or my personal life and just really be present that is freaking
hard so really learning that was and still is like I'm very passionate about it because it's hard yeah if you go to yoga I actually love to do yoga if you go to yoga and you suck at it it's a lot different experience you can't get away from the physical stuff we need this
I mean I'm no yoga like in per like pro but I'm no yogi I wouldn't never claim yoga you know I you should see us do yoga it's not a perfect hey speak for yourself now I can already see your hands as long as as long as you're doing something right here for sure yeah so
that would that be the biggest takeaway I mean for a lot of people listening that are looking to get into starting your own business I mean for you you've talked a little bit about fitness and being active is one of your biggest go-tos or reducing your stress yeah figure out what that is
for yourself what's what's a stress reducer it could be like going and writing or like writing stuff down or reading a book or sometimes people like video games like I don't I don't know what's specifically for you for you as the being active I think for me it's just some it's like
an active activity you know how'd you find that I've always been that way I think it's I mean I play competitive sports my whole life it's always been just like a part of who I am where did you play soccer you view yeah yeah yeah crack crack but Craig's probably thinking I'm a better soccer
player than you are oh hey I'm so washed up I'm so bad at soccer yeah I have no business playing anymore the other sport that I might be worse at is basketball I'm so bad at those you yeah I mean soccer's hard it's really hard I go I'm playing it looks like I've never but it's so fun it's
great game my my little boys are way into it so it's kind of fun to watch that's awesome yeah 12 12 10 and 7 wow see you get your hands full yeah they're awesome CEO rags three boys me going into their teenage years husband who's an attorney yeah to see every get jealous that
he and no offense to him but he's got you know attorneys which kind of like boring I don't know honestly how he does it I would lose my freaking mind this is an entrepreneur show if you're an attorney I know I told you the same thing today because Matt has a friend who's an attorney
and he came to Matt and he's like I want to do this TV show and Matt was like this guy's like really serious I was like well think how men not yeah probably is this is a total creative outlet yeah well be be has a really good gig because he's it's never it's there's always stuff flying
out of him you know in house is way different you're not dealing with the same crap all the time right but he also like he'll say the best thing when we're like out in public and people ask what he does he'll be like oh I'm an attorney they'll be like I would never peg you as an attorney and
I'm like oh cool that's the biggest compliment you know you got this eclectic style energy he does too he I would see him okay cool very cool well this great this has been a great conversation awesome we could probably feel like we could talk to you in studio for hours great energy some
you know great experiences and great insight for those who might be looking to start their own business or who have already embarked on their own business but looking for outlets to reduce this stress and mitigate any sort of anxiety so Rachel thank you thanks for having me
guys yeah this is awesome as soon as rags starts acquiring companies we'll have you back to see how that goes there you go I don't know one that you can acquire by PJ Masks whatever it's all right look at the get into function so I don't think so well thanks for having me