NEVER STRAYS NOCTURNE: IT'S BACK!

Howdy howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast, and your resident lover of all things Sanderson. And I'm Steven, your bookish internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy. And we are currently deep diving. Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Missborn.

Steven here has not read Mistborn before. That's right, hey, hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter. And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert, he'll be wrong. Newsflash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find fantasy fanfellows wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, um Well, why not why why not I do a sort of like conventional introduction to this podcast episode, like grown up podcasts do and I always forget to do. You're listening to Never Strace Far. My name is Ned Bolting and I'm in a kitchen in South East London, uh, with a chap who I'm about to introduce, he's looking nervously at me, um but a bloke I've known for a long time.

Um James Pope, this is your kitchen. Yes, it is. It is we can definitely say it's your kitchen. Um and James, we were just chatting, you made me a very nice cup of tea. Um you are you've got some exciting news to announce. Yep. Um but Just as importantly in my mind, you're somebody who I've known for a long time and whose story is absolutely fundamentally kind of interwoven with the story of cycling in this country going back a couple of decades, right? Yeah. I mean you've been involved

right at the thick of it in one way or another for a long time. Yeah, near nearly twenty five years now. Twenty five years, good God. Yeah. Okay. Um

The exciting news is that and I got wind of this I don't know how, but a couple of months ago um Oh no, I bumped into you at the Tour of Britain, that's right. That's right. The VIP in the hospitality somewhere in the tour. Well I haven't seen you for a long time and actually I'm But the news was that you you y back in the day, you used to organise a really exciting, very vibrant and hugely memorable series of races called the Nocturne series.

And the big news is it's coming back. Yeah, correct. Yeah, it's um A new event, uh, bringing it back to the City of London. So I was one of the original co founders with uh Rafa and Condor Cycles and we ran the first event in Smithfield Market back in two thousand and seven.

ran that event for ten years in the City of London. Ten years. Did it last for ten years? Yeah. Developed a trust you know, it was really tough in the early years getting the uh you know, winning the City of London uh over and getting their trust. But I'd managed to develop a a trusted relationship with them over that period. Um and then stayed in, you know, there was a kind of a bit of a hiatus and and a few different things happened during that period uh w in my career.

Um, but stayed in touch with the City of London and they actually approached me back in two thousand and uh twenty four um with a real desire to bring a marquee cycling event back to the square mile. Uh I think co you know, we we kind of have COVID a little bit to thank for this'cause um post COVID you know, the city has completely changed. Uh emptied out a bit. Emptied out. You've got this hybrid working. So the City of London have created a a strategy called destination city.

where they really want to use sport and culture to animate the city on the weekends but also Monday and Friday in particular. Friday in particular is a real challenge. Everybody's working from home on Friday. So um the city approached me and said, Look, James, uh what are you up to? Are you up for this? And uh timing was good for me, so I jumped at the chance and I said Let I wanna develop a new concept, a new format, um, a new circuit, a new two day format.

And I said, Look, let me spend twenty twenty five trying to, you know, secure the funding, get this up and running with a view to hosting an event in in, you know, June twenty twenty six and Here we are, three months away and you know, finally got everything over the line with the City of London, the funding's pretty much there and we're we're we're planning this event on the twelfth and thirteenth of June.

I mean that's I I you know, we've had just as such we've been inundated by bad news I think, uh particularly on these shores for quite a while in terms of cycling You know, i one way or another the direction of travel has been downwards for quite a while and we

We can get into that in a minute. But so when you said I'm bringing it back, I th uh that was honestly I can't think of another good bit of news that we've had for a long time. And it's a real uptick moment and I hope it it leads to sort of like um

a lot more to come. So tell us about the the the two the two day event. sort of nature of it and how that's different from what you what it used to be. Yeah, definitely. So this was I've I'd been thinking about this for a long time and um You know, one of the USPs to this event is the fact that we're closing roads and creating a race circuit right in the heart of the city of London. And where's it gonna be this time? It's g it's gonna go through Bank Junction. So um

the Finnish straight will run behind the Bank of England. That's amazing. And we'll we'll turn alongside Royal Exchange. The whole of bank junction has been It was it was kind of redeveloped quite a few years ago now and it only taxis and buses can go through there. So they have big footpaths and bikes, of course. An immense amount of bikes.

Um but it's a it's become a really lovely sort of you know, you have a piazza outside the Royal Exchange. So it's changed hugely, hasn't it? Yeah. I had this vision of of the the cyclists coming down past the Royal Exchange are having that backdrop of the Bishopgate City skyline. Um so yeah, so the course will

come through Bank Junction, along Queen Victoria Street where Blomberg One Poultry is, and the finish line will be there. It will then loop up round towards Cheapside, up to K Queen Street, King Street, the Ryder Village will be in Guildhall Yard, which is where we used to have it back in twenty seventeen.

And round again. So a a fantastic yeah, fantastic race circuit. We really I was I was surprised when I pitched that to the city that they actually uh agree to it. Yeah, exactly. Um But I think for them it does really showcase some of those landmarks so you've got

Got the Royal Exchange at one end, St Paul's Cathedral at the other, basically. Yeah,'cause the old Smithsfield circuit, which you know, you couldn't have done you couldn't have gone back to'cause it's under massive redevelopment at the moment anyway. Um but it was I mean it was brilliant because of the market.

But it wasn't it wasn't it was kind of slightly peripheral to the city. I mean you where you are now is bang in the middle, isn't it? That is absolutely the heart of the city. Yeah, absolutely. I mean look to uh Everybody remembers Smithfield fondly because it was kind you know, it was it was atmospheric. Um y we got all the bars and restaurants

y you know, the the finish straight was like six deep, you could barely move. And that was that was the primary reason why we had to move the circuit. We outgrew Smithfield. The crowd the crowds were too big. The crowd management started to become um an issue. So we moved to Cheapside in twenty sixteen. Um the cheap that cheap side circuit was great. It lost a little bit of the intimacy of Smithfield, so Top of my mind.

um for this new event was how can I get the best of both worlds? How can I have the high profile setting, right, more in the the heart of the square mile, but how can I try and recreate some of that atmosphere and intimacy from Smithfield? So

I'm hoping this circuit will be able to do that and that that's the plan. Yeah, absolutely. And um what is that? It's like your coffee machine just winding up. That's right, probably c probably won't hear it on these microphones. Um All right. Look w I want to come back to that'cause I think there's more to talk about about that uh how y how you want to re you know, re b rebirth the the the Noxon series going forward. But just

D reminder of the dates again? Twelfth and thirteen. Twelfth and thirteenth of June. Friday and Saturday. Put that in the diary. Put that in the diary. All right, I wanna re rewind back to twenty five years ago. How the hell did you get into cycling and this whole world that you're still in?

So yeah, a lot of people ask me this. People often say, Was I a a racer? and I was like, No, never raced my bike in my life. Were you extremely trim for a man of you know certain a certain age? So the the story is I went to university with a guy called Matt. Matt Ellis, um, when I uh moved to London in nineteen ninety nine. Matt was dating a a certain person uh a certain uh lady called Fran Miller. Fran Miller. Uh and we all moved into a flat share in uh West Hampstead.

And um yeah, my that was my first meeting with Fran Fran nineteen nine. Yes, yeah. And Franz Brother. I thought well it's I think it's about two thousand actually. Um Fran's brother, obviously d a certain David Miller, um I think very famously he got that yellow jersey ahead of Lance in in the prologue. What was it? Two that was two two thousand, yeah. Yeah. So There was an immediate connection between me and Frank'cause I always used to watch the Tour de France back in the

the day on channel four. Okay, so you did already know the sports. I was a follower fan and I l I loved watching it on um uh back on channel four. So it must have blown your mind to be sort of living in a flat with a sister of someone who's just taking the villagers. Yeah, absolutely. So so that that was kind of, you know, obviously Fran was my flatmate, uh got to meet David And I think um uh fr me and Fran over many nights drinking some red wine co concocted this plan

to create an agency where we would be David's agent. He was I think he was with IMG at the time and obviously cycling was pretty niche so IMG weren't really giving him much attention. Um so We That's very politely put. I was in an event the other day with Fran where she absolutely bagged IMG. Yeah, yeah. So we were like, Okay, let look David's our first client. We had this master plan to

try and represent some of the top cyclists. And I think even back then that, you know, cyclists weren't earning a lot of money. It's completely different to how it is now. And so we quit our jobs, set up Face Partnership and the original face partnership was a athlete management agents. Um we weren't events wasn't on the agenda at all. It's quite ballsy, isn't it? Because like

You know, Fran didn't know anything about cycling. She she only got into it because of David. Yeah. Effectively. And then you uh you know, you'd watched it from the sofa. But that's very different from entering the sort of like behind the scenes and literally trying to represent riders, you know, looking under the bonnet of this sport. It's quite it's quite a chunky move.

Well it's one of you know, you look back and when you're in your kind of mid twenties you you kind of take those risks. But we yeah, we had nothing to lose. We We we went for it. Um and you know, look, we we represented Mark Cavendish, uh Gerain Thomas. uh Rob Hales, you know, uh we we we brought in about ten of the the kind of young British athletes and some of the more old older ones. So

You know, that was a really nice part of the business. But I think very quickly we realised that there just wasn't the money. You know, it f I felt bad taking fifteen percent off. off these guys who were salary at coffee district. Yeah, exactly. Who w weren't earning very much money, but we needed to earn a living as well. So

we very quickly pivoted into events and that happened because uh Dave Brailsford, now Sir Dave Brailsford, um, who we developed a relationship with because of David being part of the G B team He invited us up to the Manchester Velodrome and asked us if we could help him organise in a an Olympic trials. Um uh this was in the kind of build up to Athens two thousand and four. They wanted to do an uh Olympic trials.

And we said, sure, I'd never organise an event in my life but you know, that was m Fran and I's approach. You know, if someone said, Can you do this? we'd be like, Yeah, we can and we'd go away and figure out how to do it. Nuts. So that was your first event? Yeah, and then that led

to uh within th within like three or four years you've got the Nocturn series up and running. Yes. And the Revolution as well. Where well the wha the the first event was the Revolution series because obviously doing that trial we met the Manchester Velodrome. Um, and then Dave Dave was very supportive of us uh and and played a big part in giving us that that kind of opportunity and that connection into British cycling and and the cycling world and

the the genesis of the Revolution series was Dave, uh Jarl Walsh from the Manchester Velodrome and me and Fran. So it was a three way kind of venture, if you like. And Dave wanted uh uh to create an arena uh competitive arena to help him develop his riders. Yep. Um Jarl and the Manchester Velodrome wanted bums on seats in the venue and and we were the kind of, you know, the creative um engine to sort of bring that all together and that and that was what became the Revolution series which was

you know, incredibly successful for uh for fifteen years. Which many of our listeners will remember with a great deal of fondness, particularly, you know, anyone who lived near Manchester. It was it you know you sold out a lot, didn't you? Yeah. It was it was a very impressive event. But for those listeners who maybe don't know w what it was, it was it was basically it wasn't six day racing, was it? But it had the kind of spirit of six day racing.

So it was like it was a track meet, but it had a bit of glitz and glamour about it. Yeah, absolutely. It was it was one day, one evening, Saturday evening. Um and what we wanted to do was just have lots of short, fast racing, bring in stars, you know, road stars as well as track stars. You know, David himself did the the very first uh event to help us. Bradley Wiggins a certain Sir Bradley Wiggins was also at that very first event.

Um and you know, we we we often build it a bit I always think of it a bit like a boxing match. We would have Chris Hoy versus Arno Torno or we Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always remember designing these posters where I would get the head to head sort of of of these legends of the sport. Um

So that was the format and it and it did work. We you know, that first event where um you know the Manchester Velodrome would only really sell out for a World Cup or a World Championships. We We managed to shift nearly three thousand tickets for that first event and then consistently we're either selling out or nearly at capacity. Um but a bit a g a big part of it as well, which I was most proud of, was we introduced this future stars competition.

um, which was all about developing those kind of riders of the future and We had riders like Laura Kenny go through there, Pete Kennock, won it. I don't know what age he would have been, but he was sitting in the stands when when on that first night. Oh wow, okay, I didn't know. Yeah. So quite often I'm I s I still think Pete's like slightly in awe of David, like as a He's never quite left him. So yeah, Pete was a future star, wasn't he? Yeah, absolutely. One of my fondest memories was...

When Pete was an elite rider, he came in and he did one points race where I think he lapped the field seven times. He was good on fire. I don't know. It was when he was racing for Team Sky. I think he'd just come back. from a row race, but he absolutely destroyed the field. It was impressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so how long did Revolution last? Um that lasted up until twenty seventeen as well. Right. Okay. So and then and then you and then

Two thousand seven, I think you said, was when Nocturne came. So you know, basically taking the principles of what you learned, I guess. on the track with revolution and applying it to criterion racing. Exactly. And again, in a similar in a similar vein of how Fran and I approached everything, um

It was actually Rafa, uh Simon Motram at Rafa. Yeah. And um And they launch they they they were founded in two thousand four, weren't they? Yeah, yeah. So it's all happening at roughly the same time, isn't it? Yeah, I I always joke with Fran, who's obviously now the CEO of Rafa, like

founded our companies at the same time, we didn't quite sell ours for for for the amount of money he did. Um but but there you go. Um but yeah, Simon and Grant Young from Condor Cycles, they had an idea to do a you know A nighttime Crit race around Smithfield Market there was an event called the Newport Nocturne which was has been going on for a long time.

You know, the nocturne is i y word has become just synonymous with a kind of nighttime crit race. Yep. And so hence they were like, Hey, approach me and Fran, Simon was like, Look, do you reck reckon you guys could organise this? never organised a crit race before and again we just said, Yep, we'll go for it and we'll figure out how to do it and go from there.

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Howdy howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast, and your resident lover of all things Sanderson. And I'm Steven, your bookish internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy. And we are currently deep diving.

Steven here has not read Mistborn before. That's right, hey hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter. And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert, he'll be wrong. Newsflash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find fantasy fanfellows wherever you get your podcasts. Now it did expand beyond London. I remember I I I never saw it

I never saw it in Edinburgh but I did see it a couple of times in Manchester, I think, in Salford Keys. Yeah, we did Salford in two thousand and eight after the Beijing Olympics where we had Chris Hoy, Gerant Thomas, a few others. Um that was a one off. I did it in Edinburgh twice. Uh David and Cameron Mayer came there and smashed that off the back of the Giro. Yeah.

Uh and I also did one in Copenhagen in twenty seventeen. Yeah. Yeah. How did that go? Yeah, it was good. It was good. It is it is a challenge, bring you know, you you you you don't realise how difficult it is to introduce an event like this and to promote it and get the audience there. So um It it was a really nice event in Copenhagen. I think if we had a few more years to develop and promote it, I think it could have turned into something big.

Um but you know, the London event was always hugely successful for this and you know it it it had it We went to Blackpool once. I would say that probably wasn't the right location for an event like this. And I think my conclusion is it it it needs to be in a major city. You need to have that. diversity of cycling culture, you know,'cause we have folding bike races, we have cycl races, we have you know, you we wanna be able to get those kind of commuters

You know, Londoners, uh not just like the professional racers who who'll do the elite crit later. So you do need that kind of big melting pot of um cycling culture like London definitely has.

I've just got PTSD actually a flashback memory. I have buried for at least a decade of I think I took part in one of those. f prompton races and it was h it was hid a ran Smithfield's hideously hard. Yeah, it's tough, isn't it? Yeah,'cause it's a real like to take it really seriously, don't they? Really fast. It's just spat out the back within like

meters of starting. Um yeah, it was incredible. Blackpool, that makes me laugh because I I like simultaneously and synchronous with all this boom in the British cycling scene. And we'll talk about the teams actually and some of the riders'cause that's a big part of the story. Um th was the tour series, which was ordin organised by Sweet Spot who now no longer they've exited the scene and they don't organise the Tour of Britain anymore, nor the tour series which is defunct.

Um but it went to Blackpool uh quite a few times, I seem to remember. And I think and I used to work on those and I we uh we had similar difficulties getting a crowd. There it is. Yeah, Bla I mean look, Blackpool they they wanted to, you know, invest in the world. The council obviously wanted to be able to do that. Yeah, they you know bad for them in a way. There was an image of stag and hen parties there and they wanted to try and transform that and

I think that the the the the anecdote, the funny story kind of related to that is I I always remember chatting to the Rafa Condor riders, Ed Clancy, and our course went in front of the tower and Ed told me afterwards. It was really distracting James. These hen parties that were flashing their tits as we were going past and I was like, Right, okay Brilliant. But just the mention of the Rafa Condor team, you know, like

For those of us who are around and working on that scene, you know, it's kinda like almost you look back at total nostalgia because it wasn't just I mean, Rafa Condor looked the business and they had yeah at certain times they had the best riders in the on the domestic scene as well and they were paid pretty well. You know, there was a lot of money coming in. But it wasn't just them.

Malcolm Elliott was still racing in, you know, whatever that team was called, the Marshalls motor point pasta. Yeah. Yeah. And then um

uh uh Nigel Mansell came in with his team and there were and then Madison Genesis. Yeah. You know, I've probably forgotten a few. There there was a proper scene where there must have been the best part of Fifty riders who were in the ma for the men at least, the women came along a little bit later, but who were making a decent living or at least getting by and that's all been swept down.

aside now it's completely gone. Yeah, I often kind of look back on that period of, you know, the peak of the the Nocturne, the the peak of the tour series. as that kind of golden era of crit racing here in the UK. Obviously the tour series was all televised. For that generation, I think to be fair, I think there had been previous kind of like

generations, but you have to go a long way back to the kind of city centre racing of the late eighties and stuff. Ex ex exactly. Th certainly the the golden era in my career anyway. Um but yeah, you had six or seven pro continental teams Um we had you know, uh like twelve to fifteen televised crit races. And it's all kind of um embryonic, isn't it? It's like if you can provide the T V coverage and the racing, the teams can find the sponsors and the teams can exist. And

And it and it all worked and it fitted fitted together and it and you know, it was a great time. And then obviously the challenge now is the races disappeared for one reason or another. That led to the teams disappearing. Yeah. And we're in this position where the the UK racing is is facing some really real difficulties. So, you know, definitely one of the kind of um objectives for me and for British cycling, certainly they're but they're providing a lot of support on this.

is that if we can bring back this kind of major city, major televised racing and I c you know, nocturne and However, we develop that can play a part in that. Hopefully it will help to start to rebuild that platform where riders, teams, you know, we can just try and create that foundation again and and ri and rebuild the, you know, the kind of commercial model and the kind of the media exposure and the fan exposure that will help those teams

Yeah. Rebuild uh in some way. Yeah, because uh the the you know the potential is clear. I don't think the appetite is diminished in this country. But people you know, I remember I've done so many events down recent years where I've been asked the same question about the the growth of women's racing. Where you they people get stuck in this horse and cart kind of question. What has to come first? TV coverage or excuse me. Got a bit of a cold. Um TV coverage or or um

You know, what how do you or the sponsors, yeah. Or or the race program. Um and actually the answer is everything has to nudge the other one on. Yeah. You have to grow all these trends have to move in in lockstep with one another. You can't just You can't magic up a lucrative television contract where the where the the event that they're buying into isn't worth that. You know, so everything has to grow together, doesn't it? It does. In a commercial sense and that that's how

Uh you know, and quite often it's kind of I don't think there's a particular science to it. It's like a bit of a kind of like vibes thing, isn't it? Yeah. So it's quite h it's quite hard to sort of like pin down the the magic source here, isn't it? Yeah, everyone relies on each other you know, as as an organizer uh of an event like this, which is free to attend, um, we are heavily reliant on sponsorship. Uh, you know, I'm th there are a few ways we're trying to kind of

develop the the commercial model to be l less reliant on sponsorship uh and I think that is a problem for cycle sport in general. Yep. Um but we also rely on teams and riders. So, you know, one of one of the challenges I'm looking at this year is Who's gonna ride it? Who's gonna ride it? And I think there are some uh what what I've definitely noticed is it the the scene seems to have switched from your teams like Rafa Condor to

almost a lot of riders being i individual kind of races who have their own sponsors. So there are some really good ri riders out there, really good specialist crit riders. Um but you know, you we don't have that kind of domestic team structure like we used to have. Um so we're certain I'm certainly looking at

You know, this event is registered on the UCI calendar which will enable us to invite um international teams, pro continental and world tours. So and we always used to do that. I always used to try and get Team Skyriders or guest rides in. So This is a a top domestic race but where we will also invite international male and female riders as well. Yeah. So s similar to how it was. But I think another thing that might have changed in the intervening years, the best part of a decade, is that

I think there's gonna be much more parity and excitement about the women's race. Absolutely. Because th there you've got like pretty well established teams. I mean the continental seen in in in in the UK for women's teams is actually pretty stable and like growing, if anything.

I I don't think the riders are paid, you know, by and large, except with a few ex exceptions. But, you know, th they're quite long standing and well established teams and they've got some quite big name riders as well. And I think that's where

You know, they've probably stolen a march on the men's scene to some extent as that's collapsed. I mean I was over at um Two races at the beginning of last week b uh last weekend, opening weekend in Belgium, the Hagerland and Le Samine Dam and four or five British registered teams.

Fantastic. Yeah. You know, and they'll be racing the nocturne. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I noticed. I got the kind of the a list from British cycling of who all the registered teams are in the UK and I was like, Wow, the it's the w on the women's side where you've actually got you know, some UCI registered teams. So there's a massive opportunity. Um uh and you know I've spoken to Most of the teams, you know, they're all really super excited about this and keen to to come on board. So

Uh yeah, the the elite men's and women's criterions, they're both we're we're gonna televise both of those races. They both get equal billing and I and I agree with you. I think There could be a bigger opportunity to have some kind of big names in the in the in the world.

you know, uh who who ride at world tour level, there's real opportunity to have some stardust sprinkled into that women's peloton. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's that's some that's changed, hasn't it, in the in the last ten years. Yeah, definitely. And I think that's been one of the the really encouraging things of

But certainly as I've been ab observing the the racing scene, not just here in the UK but internationally, the the growth of women cycling and how You know, still still s lots of challenges. uh to go, but I think, you know, there's some real star quality, there's some real traction with, you know, the the the Tour de France um Femme and those races getting bigger and better. Obviously the women's uh Tour of Britain as well.

So yeah, we're we we are definitely looking at at at providing but you know, contributing to that and providing some top class racing for for the women as well as the men. As an impartial observer, perhaps, and you know, stepping away from the the coal face at which you work in in the in the British cycling scene and you know working on the Nocturne project, but as a consumer of cycling from the couch, um What

And maybe thinking about the you know, this golden generation of men riders that we've got at the moment. We were talking about that earlier. And and watching the Tour de France. How do you think that that ended, you know? As you say, your first experience of cycling is watching the Channel Four coverage of Miguel Inderein, etcetera. How different a world is it now, that that kind of very top end of the men's sport? Yeah, it is. It i it

I i I mean it's fascinating. Um there's obviously a lot of debate over Today Podchkar and Vanderpol are you know, I'm I'm eagerly anticipating watching Strado Bianca this weekend. I love I love this time of the year when the classics start. Milan Sanremo's the one for me this year. That's just like immensely fascinating, isn't it? I guess that

That's still a bit of a lottery, isn't it? I think um on how that but you know, there are some riders that are clearly dominating. I think that's the probably the big difference from yeah that kind of era when I was uh first watching it. I mean you but if you look back, of course you did have like look, Merck's absolutely dominated. This is nothing new where you have a kind of rider that's an outlier like Podjka.

Um I I personally still really like I don't I fit find it more exciting than ever. I think the challenge is how do riders compete with this and and how are they going to take them on? And I think there's lots of really exciting

New riders coming through. Look at Matthew Brennan just this weekend. I think he looks like a really exciting prospect. Can he develop into you know, he's obviously got a great sprint on him, but can he develop into like a more round, could be a little bit more. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So Um it's fantastic to watch and and I think as well there's some real

superstars on the women's side, which is, you know, and I think there, in fact, sometimes the racing's a bit more exciting, isn't it? Because there there is that kind of um y you know, there's more superstars that could potentially win the race rather than, you know, in the men's perhaps it's it is dominated by those sort of four or five individuals.

Compl I completely agree. Yeah, I completely agree. But I think, you know, you make a very valid and obviously a comparison that a lot of people have made now for a number of years about Merckx and Pugarcha. Mm. But it's just on you you know, none of us

None of us have the living memory of watching Eddie Merck's as precious few people who can remember and besides, not much of it was shown. Yeah. Especially here in the UK, you know. Where did you how did you consume Eddie Merck's races? Well, you probably didn't. You read about it

a week later in Cycling Weekly, actually, and pinned a picture of him up on your wall. So for all of us, it's trying to decode what we're watching, really, isn't it? And then with that kind of consciousness, that awareness of perhaps... if we're all around in twenty years time we'll look back and go, I was there. I remember watching Tale Pogacci, you know. Is something that I think we need to

uh be aware of the context, yeah the historical context of what we're witnessing. Absolutely. And look, I I I think it's a good thing. He I d uh he seems like an a really nice guy. He's got that kind of very relaxed personality. There doesn't seem to be much ego about him. Um but look, you know, Van der Poel is is on on the the same level as him in the classics and that head to head is super exciting in my opinion and seeing how those guys are gonna

face off in Flanders and hopefully Roubaix as well again. Yeah, yeah, y you're right, you're right. I've so my next trip is uh actually to in a couple of weeks is is off to Italy for Milan, San Remo. And I remember comment I've commentated on it for the World Food for you for

a number of years actually. It's quite a long day. Yeah. Um, but I remember no sooner than had the last race finished last year, then I was already thinking And saying out loud actually, I cannot wait for the twenty twenty six edition of this race because I don't know if you followed it last year, but you know the the Cypresa attack.

That never happens. That never happens happened. You know. And we you know, every year we'd been talking it up. Not just about pogouts actually, but going back almost ten years, we'd been going, Oh, I wonder if someone will try and go long of the Chopressa, but the closer that Pogaca got to that top step of the podium, the more it became like obvious that if he was gonna do it he'd have to do the Chopressa the impossible Chopressa attack.

I'm watching that back now. My God he was close to cracking Vanderpool. I mean Vanderpool's resilience and don't forget Philippo Gana's part in in that as well,'cause he hung on and those three worked together on the valley r on the coastal road. Yeah. That was quite significant. But he was so close, wasn't he? Yeah. To getting it done. So he's got no option now other than to unleash even harder. Even earlier.

you know, th than he did last time. Yeah, absolutely. I and I think, you know, again it you you see the game plan unfold with how UAE and the the the strength of their team and how they just blitz the race. And I think it it it has made it quite exciting because obviously you the race is becoming animated on the suppressor and rather than just that last bit and it is okay can Pudge Car break everybody else? If there's a core group, you then come down to like I said, there's a bit of a

Bit of luck I suppose when you've got that descent, you've got the the sprint and that's what I think makes Milan San Romo so magical. It is very, very difficult for someone to like in Flanders and Route Bay you typically see the strongest rider pull away.

Yep. so difficult, so you've always got like a a little group together and uh it makes it so tactical. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I don't know why we started talking about Milan San Rema, that wasn't on the brief at all, but I just suddenly got very excited about commentating on it. Um yeah, how much would you have to pay Pogaca to get him across to the Nocturne? Uh I I haven't got a clue. Um yeah. I think in the post tour crits, I think that you know

You could get up to six figures, couldn't you, for some of the topics? I'd imagine that he probably commands that. I think uh th there was a kind of going rate, wasn't there, not so long ago. He might have broken the system like in terms of what he can charge. Yeah. Um but I th forty, fifty grand used to be the yellow jerseys. Yeah.

Yeah. Well sadly we we will remain free to attend. I think some of those events are ticketed, so um yeah, we'll we'll be free to attend. It and that's really important, isn't it? Because um it'll be televised, won't it? It'll be you know, whether you ha I know you don't know quite how that's Where or do you? Yeah, I do no we we've we're we're um we've got T N T sports, HBO Max. Um there's gonna be live coverage of the elite women and elite men's races on Saturday. Um

We are going to live stream other races. Well, we'll live stream those races and some of the other races direct on our YouTube channel. We're also gonna provide a fee to some of our partners, our brand partners as well. So there'll be lots of different w places where people can watch all of the different stuff happening. Um that's part you know, my my my thinking all along was To create a distribution

uh plan where we could get as many people able to watch it for free and behind a paywall as possible, you know, in as many territories as possible. I think That's the beauty of of U chat. I know some people don't like watching on YouTube, but more and more people are doing it. It's on everybody's telly, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. You can watch it on the tele now. So we will um yeah, we'll be kind of uh

showing as m as much of the races live in as many places as possible. Which is incredibly important, I think. Um But also equally important is, you know, if you are in the lun the greater London areas, come down, isn't it? Because it's really im I mean, I'm I'm sure this isn't gonna be a problem. You're gonna be packed. But To to to the television viewer who isn't there is watching it remotely, watching a race that is packed to the gunnels with spectators is

Subconsciously and like subliminally incredibly important, isn't it? It just it makes the event it brings the event to life. There's nothing worse than watching Hello, UAE tour, uh you know, or the tour of Guangxi or something, uh a race that is completely

passes the local population by. Yeah. And I think one of the great strengths of the Nocturn is you can guarantee that kind of big b a big crowd or Yeah, yeah. And I and that's what I like about crit racing. I look don't get me wrong, I think I love the classics. I love the kind of, you know, that sort of Yeah, war of attrition. Um, crit racing is a different type of racing. But what's great about it is you create a circuit. So across the whole day, you know, our race program we have

The amateur races, we have fun races like the like the penny farthings, the folding bike racing, and you know, it's always good fun to watch that. And then When you get to the elite races and the crowds and the the dusk is uh falling, we have like music, big screens and One of my fondest memories is you know the

as that racing is i is happening, as the riders are coming around, the spectators are banging the boards, the no you know, the r the the riders afterwards they say it is like a wall of noise. It is a totally different experience for them. Um So y yeah, that that's what makes the event really kind of vibrant and and exciting and

Yeah, we we we promote it as it's like we're creating a street party atmosphere on the streets of the city of London with this b amazing bike racing going through it. So yeah, we'll we'll create this kind of festival vibe around it. There'll be like Food and drinks, like I said, big screens, people can go to the rider village, see the riders.

Um, you know, there'll be a l an expo area. We engage a lot of the businesses around the the circuit so they do like you know, food and drinks promotions, so really bring the you know, the the area to life and create this amazing um live event experience. And and just finally, uh you know, a bit like you when you launched in two thousand seven, the ambition is then to grow it back into a series that spreads out further than London? Yeah, absolutely. So re establish London this year, um I think

W there's definitely an ambition for us to try and expand to uh two other major UK cities over the next couple of years. Obviously we've got the Tour de France returning in twenty twenty seven. That gives an a mi you know, obviously puts cycling in the spotlight here in the UK. So I think, you know m on my kind of wish list of cities to take the Nocturn. We did used to do it in Edinburgh. It would be great to go back there, obviously toward France starting in Edinburgh.

That's that's definitely um where we want to take this. It seems to be a city that's open to that as cause'cause they're hosting a a stage of the um Tour de France Fam, aren't they as well? Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Very supportive of sports, events, culture and

a thriving city. You know, I was reading obviously some statistics of how, you know, how how how well Manchester as a kind of city is doing economically. So it does seem to be like a real kind of vibrant great location for us to to have a kind of Manchester and a London version of this event in the next few years.

So there you go, that's Never Strays for basically bringing you a bit of good news. We have James to thank for that. So good luck with the whole event, James, and I hope it goes, you know, brilliantly well. And if I'm around I'll I'll definitely come along and bang some boards. Brilliant. Thanks, Nev. Cheers. Come with the shelter!

Howdy howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fan Girls podcast, and your resident lover of all things Sanderson. And I'm Steven, your bookish internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy. And we are currently deep diving.

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