Welcome to the For Love and Money podcast, the show where business and social purpose meet to inspire a movement for positive change. Here's your host, Carolyn Butler-Madden. Welcome to part two of this special Intrepid episode of the For Love and Money podcast, Cultural Immersion in Australia's Red Centre.
A brief recap on part one. So, Intrepid Travel, One of Australia's best examples of purpose-driven business and an organisation I absolutely love invited me on a new First Nations-led cultural immersion experience in Central Australia for five days. It was an incredible experience. I went in August and along the way, I got to interview some of the people involved in making it happen.
In part one, I interviewed Annette Sharp, up, Global Social Impact Manager of Intrepid, who shared what Intrepid's commitment to meaningful partnerships with First Nations communities looks like. I also interviewed our Intrepid host on the trip, Stefan Helmut, who is Intrepid's Product Category Manager for Australia. Stefan told the story of how this new experience came about, and he introduced us to the partnership with Benji Kenney, owner of 100% Fink Cultural Adventure Tours.
Now, in this episode, part two, we're going to hear from Benji himself and some of my fellow intrepid travellers. The interview with Benji was recorded at sunset on the banks of the Fink River on country that Benji belongs to, Rodna Homelands. It was a stunning backdrop. I wish you could see it. You might just be able to hear the sounds of the birds in the background as you listen to this segment.
So here Benji introduces himself and Rodner homelands, the country that he and his ancestors belonged to. My name is Benjamin Kenny. I belong to the Western Arundel area. My country is through Ndari, which is Hermannsburg, and Rotna country. So we're sitting on one of the oldest rivers in the world, Fink River. So my business is named Fink River Culture and Adventures. So after the Old Man River, so the Fink River, another name, Larapinta.
So the walking trail that's from Alice Springs to Mount Sunda named Larapinta is also named after the Fink River. So Fink River is Larapinta. So the land that we're sitting on at two is Rotna homeland. Rotna is about 45 minutes drive from Hermannsburg, which is along northwest of Hermannsburg. So Hermannsburg is a community in central Australia. It's about 125 kilometres west of Alice Springs. So all up, yes, Rotna is right on the side of the Fink River.
So Rodner homeland is where my ancestors belonged to. And Rodner is just the name of the area, but the place is really, you know, under the Hermannsburg area, close to the Fing River. So Rodner is just the name of an area which is a special place. And Rodner, the Rodner is the land of the homeland, and that's where my ancestors took up. Next up, we asked Benji what drew him to tourism and leading trips.
What led me to it is because there was no one else that was doing it around, you know, around near Hammondsburg area. And I just thought it'd be something interesting to try and start. And then while I was doing it, I just fell in love with it. I like, I'm just getting visitors coming and seeing this, you know, like the backdrop of the place.
And it's beautiful. like you know the sunset that you see and it's just amazing amazing country and then I think I think many many visitors don't get to see these sort of beautiful country and I mean they think about Central Australia it's desert yeah but not really thinking like you know it's like an oasis you know Central Australia is an oasis part of your country so I'm the thing that I love showing people on the country is you know the beauty and the nature of Central Australia,
like especially here at Rodner. You've got the animal life and the beauty of the Fink River. I think people feel in love when they come and see this place. And I think that's what Central Australia is all about, like to bring more visitors to see the beauty and the.
The nature of it, yeah. I think, or what I think the main thing is for travellers before they are eating is just research it, find out more information, and the main thing about safety as well is just let your families know how long you're going to travel and check the weather, so all of those sort of things.
So it's absolutely important, like, not just pack up and just leave and just come out and, you know, you might break down or get stuck, make sure there's emergency contact, all those sort of things, yeah. Yeah, the power of just being on country is just the energy and the beauty of just feeling attracted, you know, like the attraction here and just feeling connected. That's the main thing is just being connected to the land.
So like where we're sitting down now, it's peaceful and the sunset is going down and just amazing here.
I think why I think visitors should come with Indigenous leaders or Indigenous guide is they get to learn and listen from a local and understand more than just, you know, coming out on IEP, go with anybody, like IEP or tour guide, but just being with someone that's from the country that knows not only the knowledge or stories, but the person that is connected to the country, like just like how I do it, you know, someone that is, you know, like just connection and want
that person to feel the connection and it's the same as the guide does. I think a lot of the, like, the reason why I love sharing is because a lot of our stories are being lost and I think having visitors coming out. Sharing these sort of stories, it's, we're bringing it back alive. Yeah, and for instance, like me, it's just I'm learning more and more and understanding more of the stories and the connection and culture. So it doesn't, you know, like, it doesn't go lost throughout history.
Sharing the culture it makes me stronger and makes me more learn and understand more about the people that come visit and when I'm sharing the culture it's it's opening up when I'm opening the opening the doors for visitors to come it's.
It's something that we can't explain, like it's special for us as families, we, not saying we all live rough and that is just, you know, like not saying it's been tough, but we are happy people, like we welcome anybody with open arms, so we don't judge, we're caring people. So I'm not talking about family, but Aboriginal people.
So if there's a non-Indigenous person stuck on the side of the road, we pull up to see how they're doing, making sure, and if they can't, if they're waiting for someone, we make sure we give them water or, you know, there's some food.
And that's how we are, like even our last bit of food, we give it to the person that's a bit hungry, starving, then like if, say, if you were walking here and then you and your husband were starving and thirsty, I'd give most of my stuff to you and then I'd be like, no, I'm all good. So that's how we are as people. We help each other out. So like for what I do here, I'm sharing the culture, the knowledge, and at the same time when the visitors are here, I'm learning from them as well.
So, like, they could be something that I missed and the client and the visitor already knows the story and he or she tells me about it. Then when they go, I'll keep it in my head and I'll put it in one word then and I'll explain it to the next group that comes in. The offer for visitors to come and see a place like this, no-one else in Australia could come and see and visit.
And, you know, people in Alice Springs that live for 30 to 40 years have never set foot here, only the Westmac, the Fingard, but places like these all over Central Australia where it's closed off to visitors. And I think, you know, to open the doors, especially to Indigenous people in Central Australia, for them to open the doors, it's also make them feel proud.
And then when visitors come, it makes them feel prouder that seeing the visitors admiring the culture and country and want to keep going, yeah. And so then the benefit is like is you know having a group come.
And you know they take the message back to where they come from and then next group come and visit Roden I say you know like if next group come they're like oh my friend or my friend told me about this so I had to come and see or we read about it on the newspaper we want to come and see this so you know so that's more and more people are now.
You know, seeing what's out there and, you know, like especially central Australia, it's just not a dry, you know, dry desert or, you know, and I know there's also one of the biggest issues about the Alice Springs issue, but people, there are people like me out here trying to do something like this for visitors to come out, like, don't worry, don't listen about the issue, what's happening in Alice, come out and visit our country, you know, we've got a lot to offer.
I think, I don't know, for me personally, I haven't traveled much, but, you know, going to places like Dukosiosko or Great Ocean Road, just seeing the different areas, and it's just amazing. And, you know, for me to open up the doors here, visitors come out and it's like, wow, like, where is this place? This is another world, you know? and, like, what we did for the last two days. You know, with being here for one day and then going to Palm Valley and Hammersberg.
It's in a close vicinity and it's like you're not travelling too far and it's just one camp and you're just travelling to a short distance and get to see places and then go back to camp.
So, like, you know, for me to go and travel down to, like I said, Kosciuszko, seeing the Twelve Apostles, and it's just, like, it's amazing, you know, like, and seeing other Indigenous people and how they run their business and understanding what the laws and cultures is and just travelling to other people's places and seeing and learning and saying, I'll bring it back here and try work, try to see if I can do it the way they did it.
If it doesn't work that way, I'll go back to the way I was running it. Benji was invited to share a message with the intrepid community. I reckon this message is one for all Australians, but especially those of you who are regular listeners of this podcast. In his first response, Benji talks about the lights at Rodner. I promise I'll explain later.
Come to Rodner and come and see the lights. No, no, no. Well, after that, I'd just come out to, you know, come out to central Australia and, you know, the Westmac, you've got the Fringard and Rodner and Hermannsburg. And if we keep doing this partnership because that's going to be one of the biggest walking tracks that we're going to create from Mangamma Camp to Rotina to Hermannsburg to Palm Valley and I'm going to create a mountain bike trail right here as well on the hills around the Vakia.
So there's going to be a lot of opportunities there and if there's anybody in the intrepid staff or anybody that want to volunteer in the next few years to come out and help with the walking track but at the same time they're going to visit and see the countryside, side, the door's open. Okay, so the lights. Each night as we sat around the campfire at 9pm, these lights would appear in the sky and they would move fast.
They'd move really fast and in different kinds of movements and then poof, they would just disappear. They weren't planes. They were unlikely to be a satellite and we never figured out what they were, but Benji had us pretty convinced they were spirits. One story he had shared with us was a traditional Aboriginal story about Tenorola. The same story was shared on a visitor information board at the sacred place Tenorola when we visited it. It's also known as Gos Bluff.
I'll read you the story that was on the board. A traditional Aboriginal story about Tenorola. Mavis Malbunka is Kutungula, or caretaker, for this story. It is her role to speak for the owners and keep it strong. In the dream time, a large group of women danced across the sky as the Milky Way. They were stars taking the form of women. During this ceremonial dance of the Milky Way women, a mother put her baby aside resting in his turna, a wooden baby carrier.
The turna toppled over the edge of the dancing area and fell to the earth. The baby fell down into the ground and his turna fell hard on top of him. At the places where the turna crashed into the ground, rocks were forced up from underneath, forming the circular walls of Tenorola. The Milky Way baby was covered with sand and hidden from view. The mother, as the evening star, and the father, as the morning star, are still looking for their missing baby.
So, as I was saying about those bright lights. Next up, Benji talks about what country does for a person's body, mind and soul. The thing is that, like, it's not what I've noticed. We've been taught as a young age that, you know, you care for the country, the country will look after you. So what do we mean by the country? We mean by the land. So the trees, so everything is living, you know.
We're like a living organism. So the trees, the animals, you know, even though the rocks aren't, but they are some, and it's part of the land. And we also come from the land, so we all have to share and look after. And so, like, being out on country, it does heal you because your mind is not focused on, you know, being on technology or you're in the city, your mind is already, like, focusing everywhere. But when you're out on country, out bush, your brain starts to slow down.
But, you know, it opens up your mind and you start realising what you're missing out on in life and you start thinking about your personal life and you start to think about, you know, some of the, you know, like could be seen as if you think about some of the family members passed away or you think about like, oh, what could I do now to, you know, for myself to think. So the land actually is like the energy, it sticks onto you and it helps heal you.
And when you start thinking about a lot of that it is actually healing you, cleaning you it's getting away all your thoughts of like I should do this, I should do that or what if, what if or what, you know, all of that so it actually, the energy around you when you're hiking or when you're camping it's. It actually attracts to your energy. Like, it's not saying if you have a bad energy, but the energy, the land will clean that away from you. So it helps you understand who you are.
It helps you realize about yourself and what you want to do with yourself because, you know, like, I'm just being honest, there are a number of us who are living in town or community and they are stuck in a room with four walls and we have the highest suicide rate so far now and it's because these young people are not, and people are saying it's all drugs, like drugs or alcohol, yes, but it's because they're stuck in town and they've got nothing to do.
So if they come out here, bring them out, let them wander around and it helps them realise lives and, you know, like, what do they want in life. Next, Benji speaks more about his people's relationship with the land, explaining the concept of ownership.
As an Indigenous man, when I talk to my visitors and when people say, like, about traditional owners or owners of the land, we are not actually, like, the owners or, you know, we're only caretaker because what I mean caretaker is that we look after the land but the land is the one that gives look is the owner the land the country is the owners of every single people because they are the ones who give give us life so there
was a there's a proverb that I read from the but I like looking at other cultures stories and I think in the American Indians they talked about like you You know, for example, Zane, like, you know, they said two fleas fighting over a dog's back.
You know, the dog, the fleas don't own the dog, the dog, you know, like, it's, um, it's, the way it's explained it, it sort of got me understanding, it's like, it's all like for, if, if me and my brother started fighting over, for this land here, it's like, if, if we both die, we die, you know, we shouldn't, we can't be owners, because the land was the one who owned us, because we have to pass the story to our, to our younger generations, and, you know, and they tells the story
and they pass it on and then they pass on because what what happened is that we were born we wander the land and we we die back in the land and it's just it's it's a repeat over and over so yeah so we we as people do not own the land and but the land actually owns us, like and it's and that's just the way it is because because we're not the only ones that that live on this land. We've got all the animals, the trees, the plants.
So if we were the only ones that owned it, the land would be destroyed. In this next section, I asked Benji why it's important for Australians to connect to country. Every time I'd be careful, like me personally, I'd try to be really careful of how I say it. But, you know, over time, I went to camps and that, like, how do I say it? It's not, you know... Just been saying the same thing to my clients and school groups and that everybody would hear about it.
Oh, you know, like when this, like Australia, they keep coming around the corner and it's like, this is our country, this is our land. And then, you know, you've got the other side saying, well, I'm from here, this is my land too. But it's not everybody's land. It's everybody, you know, from who is part of the spirit ancestor.
Sister you know like people that are born and live from australia it's like the reincarnation we all because because we all you know like are from australia all of us and we all should be working together because we are all one um if my brother brought his wife here and she had children and then their children children and my children they'll be fighting about but rotten is mine rotten is mine but no it's it's everybody's so like australia is everybody's you know like and the reason why
I say all of these things and be careful is like. Like I have the word doesn't come back to me you know it brought me back in the thing you know so I try to explain it in a way people say I understand, because you know like I think a lot of people are fed up with two sides to the stories you know like this and this and that and that and it's like, like we all we all live here we all should be working together to running it. Not like, I'll give for an example, Rotna.
It's not only my place. My family's also the bosses as well, and they have a say. So it's not only me. So when the government want to do something, they'll go, I'll talk to Benjamin. It's like, no, he's a part of the Rotna family. So you all have a say in this.
You know, if there's a decision made about, say, mining, that's when I'll jump in and say no, or if there's something to do with destroying country, no, but we need to have a say as one, so and that's what as Australians should be working together, you need to have one voice. Oh, thank you, Benji. I just want to pick up on a few things from what Benji said. Australians should be working together as one voice. What a refreshing idea that is. And the wisdom behind it speaks for itself.
I'm sure some would say that is an idealist point of view, sure. But isn't that what great leaders should inspire us towards? Woods? You know, the best of us, the best of each other? Shouldn't they be reminding us that there is more that we share in common than that which divides us? Instead of appealing to our worst instincts, shouldn't they appeal to our best instincts? I don't know about you, but I found so much of what Benji shared to be just so incredibly valuable.
And I want to highlight light just a few of the things he said that particularly moved me. When Benji said sharing our culture makes me stronger, I felt quite emotional that we as Australians are not fighting hard enough to help First Nations people preserve their culture. Because First Nations culture is our history.
And until we reconcile ourselves with this and start to celebrate it and protect it, we will never be able to fully embrace what it means to be Australian our shared identity and that is a loss it is a crying shame Benji spoke a lot about our relationship with country with the he said the main thing is being connected to the land I felt that as much as I love nature I am a a bit of a city girl. A busy one at that, so I snatch moments in nature.
But those five days on country, I did feel connected to the land and it grounded me. Benji also said, the land helps you understand who you are. Absolutely. Even spending a short time on country helps you get back to that understanding. There's no connection to the distractions of the the outside world, just you and the people you're with in the present moment.
It strips away the so-called realities that we've manufactured and connects you to the real reality, to real connections with the land and your fellow humans right here, right now. Two final quotes from Benji before we move on. The first one, you care for the country, the country will look after you. I'm not going to dissect that one. There's no need. I just wanted to invite you to reflect on it. And finally, to reflect on this philosophy. We as people do not own the land. The land owns us.
Benji mentioned this in the interview, and he mentioned it a couple of times during the trip. I know from my conversations with my fellow travelers that when he said that, it hit home to all of us. It feels like a huge and powerful truth that we in the West have ignored, we've buried, and we've abused it and disrespected it. Our society has been built and our economy powered on the contra-philosophy that we own the land.
Now, none of us can counter the prevailing Western philosophy alone, but I do think we can start to think about this idea that we belong to the land rather than the land belonging to us. As individuals, we can think about it as individuals. So I'll give you an example of how I thought about it. Right now, I'm in the middle of selling my home in the northern beaches of Sydney. We're downsizing. And I've been feeling sad about leaving our beautiful home. It's not flash.
It's the worst house on a beautiful street. But it's been our home for 17 years. And so I felt sad. But since coming back from this intrepid trip and thinking on Benji's words, reflecting on those words, I've actually been been able to feel differently about my relationship with the home I'm leaving. I don't exactly feel like I'm losing it because I've realized it was never mine to own. So I still feel sadness about leaving, but it's not such a heavy sadness any longer.
It feels like the time is right to end my relationship with this place and I will carry its many memories with me for the rest of my life. It doesn't end with me leaving. But now I'm ready to build new relationships with other places. So that has helped me. That's my example. And I want to ask you how reframing this concept of owning the land might possibly help you. Now I can't wait to introduce you to some of my fellow Intrepid Travellers. Up first, we have Lauren.
Lauren hails from beautiful Tasmania. She joined her friend and intrepid insider, Claire, for this experience. Okay, I'm here with Lauren from Hobart. And Lauren, tell me first, what brought you on this trip? So this trip was something, well, this idea of this trip was something that was part of my to-do list for last year. Yeah. And serendipity just happened to be that I ended up going on a spontaneous trip to Europe instead.
And when this insider opportunity came up, it seemed like the perfect blend of exactly what we hoped to do, but had not really been out of plan just yet. So it kind of took all of the thinking out for us to actually be able to go on a trip that had everything and more of what we were looking for. Yeah, brilliant. And can you explain to our listeners what does it mean being an insider? I mean, insider for me is actually an interesting concept because I piggybacked off an insider.
Yep. So I had the very rare opportunity of being able to be involved in something that Intrepid has created. As a pilot program, as someone new to the intrepid space. So I think that's been part of the fun for me is I've been a real newbie. So discovering intrepid. 100%. Absolutely. So being able to be part of this first run of this amazing trip as well as be completely new to this space. I'm not really a camper. I haven't done much of, you know, staying out in the great outdoors.
So even that part has been fascinating for me and just being able to witness everyone get into their kind of camp zone because it's much more familiar for them has been a really fascinating experience for me as well.
So it's kind of that perception of these insiders who've had these intrepid experiences and just getting from their body language or from how they're being around one another and the experiences that they've had on other trips and how they've brought that to this space and how I can contribute as someone a bit new and a bit different. And I chuck a dress on after we come back from a hike and everyone's like, what are you doing? Beautiful. And like there are some hardcore campers here.
Absolutely. Like you, I'm not, I've only been camping a couple of times. So, and I think that's an important thing is you don't have to be a hardcore camper as long as you're open to, you know, an on-country experience. Absolutely. So I know you've loved all of it. We've talked about this, but can you share just, you know, one or two highlights from the trip? Can I go three? Yes, you can go three. Thank you so much. So I think there's three things that stand out.
So in no particular order, the one that I'd like to mention first is on our, when we first arrived, we all went straight for the waterhole. Like we all literally got here, popped our things, claimed our tents and just went for a walk together as essentially total strangers. And we got a little bit of guidance as to where it was, follow the road, you'll get here. And we sat down and we all started to chat and get to know one another.
And that was lovely. And then the following morning, so pretty soon after, we had the beautiful experience of Benji then explain as our first stop, essentially, what that space actually means and how significant it is to the dreaming story here at Rodna. Yeah. So I think that was just a brilliant first experience of this is what this space means.
And we can, you know, we've had that experience already of kind of coming together as a group straight away on this beautiful land and being together and then understanding what that actually meant in this context. Another big one for me was Red Bank Gorge today. That's fantastic. You know, to not go too much into that story, somewhere that I was really looking forward to seeing in a very kind of quick sort of way.
So that had been somewhere that had popped up on my radar quite recently and it was a really special way to kind of end this, what has been a two-week trip for me. So that was a really special experience. And I hear you were looking at a painting of it. That's right, yeah. I'd seen a painting essentially on arrival at Yallara. Spent a week in Yallara to see Uluru and Katatjuta, the week before coming here to this on-country experience.
So, to see that straight away, to then realise it was part of our itinerary the day before we came, as I've kind of re-read through it in preparation, and then to kind of find out it was one of the final things we were doing was just a really nice bookend. So, to be inspired like that, to then see it in real life and to have such a beautiful experience there was just really moving.
And the final and probably most important one is the generosity of benji and the willingness of everyone here to learn and to be present and to start you know a lot of different understandings have come on this trip but i feel like we've had this shared experience of understanding a bit more of what this country means um and how we can kind of take that back into our communities, with fresh eyes and to see things a bit more clearly and to understand well this is this
context what don't we know already about you know where we come from as majority white Australians enjoying the podcast if you're looking for more inspiration head to our website thecauseeffect.com.au for more resources on how you can start using your business as a force for good or buy the for love and money book every copy sold allows us to protect one square meter of rainforest. Help us save 10,000 square metres by 2025.
Okay, I'm here with Cheryl from Busselton and Cheryl has travelled over from Western Australia in her camper van all the way through South Australia and here to the Northern Territory. Cheryl, first I want to ask you what made you want to come on this trip? I think the day I got the email, I just, I booked it because... The same day? Same day. As soon as I got the email. Yeah. Because I was here 15 years ago and just fell in love with the country. It's just...
Yeah, something about it. And it's an opportunity to learn more and the stars aligned and here I am. Yeah. Oh, wow. That was it. And you're an intrepid insider. Yeah. So you've taken. I've taken six trips. This is my sixth one. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Where else have you been with independent? I think the first one I did was from Thailand across Laos to Vietnam. Yeah. Then I did Rajasthan in northern India. Then did a sailing trip around the Andaman Sea out of Phuket in a catamaran. Oh, my goodness.
Then went to China and went Beijing to Shanghai. And last year went to Turkey. Amazing. So what is it about Intrepid that you love so much? Oh, they just go really interesting places. It's not just run-of-the-mill. And the tour leaders always are really knowledgeable about the areas that we're going through. And even like the Thailand through Laos, they got different tour guides for each region who were knowledgeable about those areas.
Is and like in the northern india one we got to stay in these really remote little palaces and you know tents by a lake somewhere and and just really i know this one was called the cultural immersion but a lot of their holidays you just immerse yourself in the in the country that's what i love about it yeah and it's easy i'm vegetarian so it's really easy having a guide who can speak the local language to make sure that they can meet my dietary needs.
You know, not sneaking fish or meat or something like that in the middle of it all. Something suspicious, yes. Yeah, that I can just feel confident and I feel safe. So tell me, what have been some of the highlights of this trip for you? Oh, I think just Benji sharing his culture, just talking about giving depth to the actual countryside. And, you know, I've really, I've read a lot of things and I've, yeah, learned quite a bit about Aboriginal culture, where I come from.
But this area, it's just so ancient. and hearing Benji's stories and just pointing out little features in the landscape that connect those stories to country, I think that's been really, really excellent. What will you take from this experience? Oh, look, just the fact that Australia's got this incredible history and, you know, it started way before 250 years ago. So it's just the value and the knowledge that Aboriginal people have and it's all over the country.
And so, yeah, just keep looking into that, looking deeper into the country rather than just, yeah, the European side of it, which, you know, some of that's a bit brutal. But I just, I love learning about the Aboriginal history of the country because it's so old and it's so deep. And I guess my whole working life I've been involved in land restoration and so it resonates with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. Yep. Thank you. Is there anything else you want to add? Oh, not really.
It's just, oh, great bunch of people. And I guess that's what else I enjoy about Intrepid Trips that you meet a whole lot of interesting people.
People you might get one person occasionally who perhaps does not have the same morals as you or ethics or or love of traveling but mostly the people that i've met on intrepid trips have been brilliant yeah i really enjoyed the company and learned yeah yeah i think i said on the bus today i love intrepid travelers yeah yeah and you know that if you're going on an intrepid trip you're going to meet some really good people yeah whereas i guess i haven't really traveled with
other other companies maybe the lara pinta with world expeditions and that was really good too but yeah i love intrepid trips yeah i'm i'm a junkie. Thank you cheryl, Okay, so I'm here with Lynn and Sue, two amazing women who were on the trip, and they're both from the Blue Mountains. And Lynn and Sue, I'm going to ask you each to introduce yourself and actually share what you told me about how you actually knew each other from before.
Lynn, do you want to kick off? Yeah, sure. So my name, Lynn, and I'm the convener of Blue Mountains People for Reconciliation, which is a group that has existed in the Blue Mountains since 1997, a voluntary group very much focused on supporting Aboriginal rights and recognition and building strong partnerships with local Aboriginal groups and individuals. And so because of that, I became the convener of Blue Mountains People for Yes during the voice campaign.
And the Blue Mountains is a fabulous place to live. People step up for what they believe in. And so 496 people signed up to be volunteers in the Blue Mountains and I sent them all sorts of emails. I didn't actually meet all of them. But when I got on the bus at Alice Springs Airport, Sue said, I know you when I said my name to introduce people because she was one of the people that I sent emails to because she'd volunteered to let door knock or be at stalls or whatever.
So, yeah. And in fact, all of the above and more. Lynn sent me out to remote polling booths that had lost their people, their campaigners on the day because they'd got COVID and so on and so on. So we were, we convened also a pop-up choir at the Katoomba Cultural Centre one Saturday afternoon and videotaped that and it was circulated, I believe.
So there was a huge amount of activity throughout the latter part of 2023, over probably four months or so, that gathered people and built this incredibly strong commitment to or mobilised an existing commitment to reconciliation and participation and First Nations centrality to our national story, I guess, and the ethics of how we live in this place. And Lynne was, that's why I knew Lynne.
We both live in the same suburb, but it was those activities that Lynne was pivotal to and I was part of the large army in the Blue Mountains. We were camping towards that shoulder to shoulder with other people. That's amazing. I mean, in one sense, it's an incredible coincidence because, you know, Intrepid put out the invitation to intrepid insiders, you know, who might be interested in this trip.
And here you are a few streets apart in the Blue Mountains, having actually collaborated unbeknownst to you on something that was important to you.
And then again, maybe it's not such a coincidence because a lot of what I talk about on this podcast is that shared narrative and the concept of people like us, which is a Seth Godin, and people like us believe things like this and knowing intrepid and what intrepid stands for perhaps it's not such a big surprise that that you two have come together at this moment along with all the other people who are on this trip as well so it probably speaks for itself but i'm going to ask you
anyway what attracted you to this first nations cultural immersion trip. Well, I had walked the Larra Pinta Trail with Intrepid last year and with two non-Indigenous guides over five days, and it was fantastic. They were really knowledgeable about, you know, plants and geology and various things. But I asked them, you know, what involvement they had with the local Indigenous people, and they said that the plan was in the pipeline to have an Indigenous-led trip.
And I said, well, that would be fabulous. So, you know, I knew that that's what they wanted to do, but they hadn't got there yet. So when I got the email, I thought I've got to do this, you know. So, yeah, it was brilliant. And that wasn't long in between, was it? When did you do the Arab Pinter Trail? It was May last year. Yeah. Yeah, so, yeah, not long.
Okay. And Sue? look i think also it was the i didn't know it was in the pipeline but when i saw that header on the email cultural immersion tour led in 100 indigenous led i thought if i'm spending tourist dollars then that's where i want to spend it yeah yeah yeah yeah it it's when i when i got the email as well it was kind of like oh this is what i've been looking for and it is no coincidence So I was very active on the Yes campaign for the referend as well.
So I think, you know, there's some strong shared values there. So tell me, what did you think of the trip? I'm going to ask you, Sue, to kick this one off. What did you think of the trip? Look, I had an unusual experience because I had an extra camping trip the week before in a remote community. That was something that happened through my work, coincidentally. So I had two remote Indigenous-led, if you like, First Nations-led experiences in the centre.
I loved the trip with Intrepid. I felt like our Benji, who was our host, who welcomed us onto his traditional land, was was incredibly thoughtful, generous, patient, and just a very lovely person to be in the hands and in the care and in the heart of for those five days. I don't know if this should be on the podcast, but I'll tell you, I was the last person to be dropped off.
And Benji said to me then he'd He'd been very anxious and the week before he'd been thinking about cancelling the trip because he'd been so anxious about how much support he had. He only had himself that time. He usually has more people.
And he said the spirit of joy among the group impacted also on Benji and he was feeling much more buoyant at the end of the week as all of us were, I think, as the consequence of the time we spent together, that included as much sitting around the fire at night, cooking together. Collaborating on living in a camp, I guess, as well. Yeah, that's amazing. And I remember we took Benji down to the river to interview him, myself and Taryn and Josh and Stefan.
And he was stressed, right, because dinner had to be cooked. And you guys just jumped in and said, we'll do it. And I think that really reflects the tenor of the trip and how everybody just, you know, mucked in and, yeah, yeah, it felt like we should be doing stuff like that together. Of course. We're living together in a little family, a little community. And something else that I know that happened after you were both dropped off at the airport, I think, we popped in on the way into town.
We dropped into the Northern Territory Indigenous Business Network Expo, which was halfway between the airport and the city or the town in the Desert Knowledge Precinct, I think it's called. So we popped in there and we walked around with Benji who knew every single person at every single one of all the stalls, who introduced us to his business mentors who'd helped him set up his business.
And we saw so many pest businesses, engineering businesses, that were First Nations-led, that were all involved in this business network. And we found out at the end of that walk around that Benji had also been nominated, his business, the Fink River Adventure Tours, I think it's called, that he had been nominated for an award at those annual Northern Territory Indigenous Business Network Awards. So that was really impressive too.
Yeah, brilliant. That's a fantastic end because I feel like we were in this wonderful bubble on country. You know, like that's what I really wanted when I'd been on the Intrepid trip before.
But we were in a sort of ordinary, normal bubble because we were at the Glen Helen campground, which was fine, But it was so special this time to be on country, on the red earth, around the fire at night, all cooking together and, you know, being off grid on country was, it's just such a privilege and not easy to achieve.
So you know benji's generosity i mean i know we were paying customers but he was enormously generous with his time and his his care and kindness as you say and his incredible knowledge but i did need to hear each story about another 10 times yes launch it's my brain and i forgot to say also something else that was really important for me was that we saw with new eyes, quite literally, I think. He helped us to see with new eyes because, for example, the first night when we walked down.
After we'd arrived, we walked down to the waterhole on the river and we looked around, we took a few photos, we, you know, speculated on whether this was conglomerate rock or not and then we went back and had dinner, which Benji had cooked. And the very next morning when we stopped there first and Benji told us what those rocks in the water represented and the small dip over here and the bloodwood tree and the sap out of it. And he conjured up, for me, it was like magic.
He conjured up a whole new layer of understanding and knowledge and insight and story, building that shared story for us of that place. And then the whole rest of the time we were away, he was bringing out more strands of those stories. And for me, in my work, I'll often have to take notes and take knowledge away and I'm an academic and re-presented it. But I felt like it wasn't something I wanted to extract or take notes on or
take that story away and share it with other people. It wasn't mine to do that. It wasn't extractive. It was experiential, just be there in that space, in that moment and learn. That's beautifully put. And I think as well, for me, those stories, they created a relationship with the environment around us. You know, it wasn't just another tree. It wasn't just another, you know, crevice or hole in the ground. And that's what stories do. They help you relate to people and to things.
And, yeah, I think you put that beautifully, Sue. I agree. Did you have any highlights, any particular highlights? I really loved the first day when we were just, you know, threading our way along the river, the Fink River, stopping at all those significant story places and, you know, having those lovely swims and it was, it just felt really, really special. I mean, the other days were amazing too, but there was just something really magic about that, that first day.
Yeah. I loved it. Yeah. And would you... What would you say to someone who was thinking of taking that trip? Why do you think it's important for people to actually connect to our country and our history? Well, we're incredibly blessed to live in a place that has a continuous culture here for over 60,000 years. And people still entirely connected, immersed in the land as the generations before them have been.
So it's a no-brainer to take the opportunity when it's there to be immersed with a First Nations traditional owner. I mean, it's just the biggest privilege and why would you miss it? Yeah. Yes, and anybody going on a trip like this, you won't learn everything about First Nations people. You're going to learn the specificity of this place and this landscape and the whole country is a mosaic of thousands and thousands and thousands of specific places and relations with them.
So it's a little bit of an insight and a feeling for a specific place that hopefully we take back to where we are and look with new eyes, I guess, if we've learned a new way of looking. Another thing that's really important, I think, is to just let go. Of any expectations about how things should be, in what order. For example, there was no sense in relaxing in your tent.
We quickly made our own sort of customs and practices around supporting each other, like helping to get the food ready and so on and so on. And that was partly because it was a really great group. Everybody in the group really let down their defences pretty quickly and shared some very intimate stuff and became close to one another. And that was a really lovely element of it too. We sort of, I think, Benji set the mood and some of the other people with us helped to do that too.
And we could all relax into that. that beautiful and there was you both mentioned something magical about it and and i'm i'm just going to say it right this was the first ever intrepid tour of this kind and do you remember when we sat around the campfire and and and one of the stories that benji kept talking about was the seven dancing ladies and the seven sisters and they kept reappearing in the stories in different forms.
And I don't know if you remember, but I said, hey, do you think it's a coincidence that in this first group there are seven women? And everybody, including Benji, went, oh. Pretty amazing. Yeah. But, yeah, it was beautiful and it was a beautiful experience to share with you guys and I'm really grateful that I got to meet you and enjoy it with you. And thank you for your time in recounting your experiences here. No problem. Yeah, it's been great. Thank you.
Next up, I interview my fellow content creators, Taryn and Josh. My name is Taryn Stemvai. I am on this Intrepid Cultural Immersion trip as a writer. So I'll be producing some content and stories off the back of it. G'day, my name is Joshua Scott. Scott, I am the photographer and videographer for the trip and making sure everyone looks beautiful as they travel this beautiful country. So you're both long time Intrepid people. What is it about Intrepid, you know, that makes it so unique?
What makes Intrepid so unique? I think for me, it's probably just the culture from the top down, I would say. And the fact that they are, you know, the biggest travel B Corp in the world, that all All of the ethics and, you know, things that they really believe in, touching lightly on the planet, you know, really supporting –.
First Nations self-determination and leadership. Yeah, just all of the, you know, this small group travel and really amazing and unique experiences, just that that is throughout the entire company. It's definitely not, you know, this profit at all costs model. And I find that really refreshing. Everyone who I've met through Intrepid or on Intrepid trips has been just awesome and has really had that same ethos, which makes it, yeah, a really special place.
Yeah, I think it's the immersion into culture, which makes Intrepid really unique. You know, You know, you find with a lot of travel companies that there's almost like a glass wall between you and where you're visiting. And I think that Intrepid breaks that down and gets you amongst the people and amongst the culture and really immerses you with where you're visiting.
So it becomes less of a tourist visit and more of a cultural experience, which I think is super important, especially with the future of travel. I asked Josh and Taryn what the highlights of this experience were for them. Some of my favorites. There's been a lot. But, hey, I think we've done a lot of hiking and a lot of exploring.
But I think some of the moments that you least expect, like sitting around the fire with maybe 10 other people that you might not have expected to meet in life and you probably wouldn't have connected with, but getting along so well and sharing stories and sharing experiences. You know, we tend to fall into our little clans when we get home and our little tribes. And this really builds a whole new tribe around individuals that you might not
necessarily meet. So I think that connecting with the country and connecting with people has been a very, you know, pivotal point of this for a lot of us. For me, it's the stories. It's so incredible to be here with Benji, our local Western Arrinter guide. He's so amazing. The way that the stories that he tells of the dreaming and even just, you know, his own personal stories completely reshape how I see this place. and how I see, you know, myself as a white person in Australia.
And yeah, like what a special place we live. I'm so honoured and privileged to be here. What a great group of people it was to be amongst and to share this incredible experience with. Truly intrepid people. I also share Taryn's sentiment about being honoured and privileged to have taken part in this experience and also honoured and privileged to be able to try to capture its essence and bring it to you, my For Love and Money podcast listeners.
I hope you've been able to get value from this two-part special, but more than that, I hope it inspires you to immerse yourself in a similar cultural experience. Links to Intrepid Travel will be in the show notes. So jump in. And if you do, I would love to hear from you and learn about your experience. grants. Music. Thanks for listening to this episode of the For Love and Money podcast. If you'd like to take a deeper dive into the purpose movement, visit us at thecauseeffect.com.au.
And remember, doing good is good for business. So if you're not doing good, then what are you doing? Thank you.