Welcome to the For Love and Money podcast, the show where business and social purpose meet to inspire a movement for positive change. Here's your host, Carolyn Butler-Madden. My guest today has deep roots in the coffee industry going back 20 years and has pioneered many businesses, including coffee education, coffee farming and processing, cafes and roasting.
Roasting saxon wright is the founder and owner of pablo and rusty's coffee roasters a b corp certified roasting company based in sydney australia he is also the co-founder and ceo of husky also a b corp certified company focused on eliminating single-use products from the coffee and broader hospitality industries husky has developed a reusable cup that utilizes waste from the farming of coffee from the husk.
However, more importantly, it has also created a swap system so consumers can exchange the cup for a freshly cleaned one, removing the need for single-use disposables. Saxon is the recipient of the New South Wales Green Globe Award, Australian Good Design Award and multiple Sustainability and Business Awards. He also serves on the board of Greensquare, a tech platform connecting coffee roasters and traders.
As you may well imagine, Saxon is deeply committed to seeing business solve issues linked to our broader environmental crisis. Now, our interview covers Saxon's background, the key experiences that led him to do what he does today. He shares his inspiring approach to people development, which when he applied it to Pablo and Rusty's enabled him to have the headspace to create other opportunities, which ultimately led to building Husky.
You'll notice how much the theme of curiosity, design and innovation threads its way through our interview, all driven by Saxon's commitment to using business to solve environmental issues and create systems change. Finally, Saxon also shares some of the steps we can each take as consumers to reduce our reliance on single-use plastic. It is super inspiring. Enjoy. Saxon, welcome to the For Love and Money podcast. Thank you for taking the time to join us. Hey, Carolyn. Great to be on the show.
So, first question I ask all my guests is, what is the role of love in business? Would you like to share your perspective on that? Yeah, sure. I think it's a lovely way to start a podcast, really, and kind of bring a bit of focus back to what we're really all trying to do, I think, at our core, at our heart. We all do things for different reasons, but if we're not doing it for love at some level, then it's a bit of a sad and lonely journey, really.
You know, for me, I think when I think about something like love, which is maybe a little more abstract and a little hard to put your finger on it directly, I just think about things that are beyond ourselves.
Like, what's beyond us? What's in it that's not just about me, but about something that's either into the future, further away, you know, whether it's the people we're working for, trying to serve, of, you know, whether it's customers or, you know, in our case, probably originally the stakeholder at Farm that we wanted to do something for or, you know, I think everyone's got their version of it, but for us it's just thinking beyond ourselves.
There's something bigger than us here at Play and the level of impact and the kind of things we want to do and see in the world, you know, kind of get boiled down to that thing that drives us and, you know, I guess that's the word that sums it up in a really lovely way. Okay. I think that is such a clear and simple way of thinking about what inspires love in us. It's something beyond us, isn't it? And even though it makes us feel good, it is about something or someone beyond us.
So yeah, I really love the way you've framed that. And without that, it becomes a bit of a chore, doesn't it? Or very self-serving. Yeah, I mean, the only other thing I might add to that is it's not necessarily about looking for something in return. turn. I think love is the essence of something that you give unconditionally. And whilst in business, we do want something back, I think there's an element that we just want to give out and not necessarily pay something back.
It's the goodwill that we push out from ourselves that I think is part of that. So yeah, I think that's core. And if we're missing that, if we're only expecting something back for everything we do, then I feel like we're missing something and it's a little empty.
I love that perspective. And I think it really really contrasts with not everyone in a world, but a world which is some parts of the world which are really sort of pushing us to think about what's in it for us and also think about, you know, why things have been removed from us. So I think that sense of looking beyond our needs and looking at others' needs is possibly what makes us human. And, you know, that's what fulfills so many people who actually do go down that path. So thank you for that.
Saxon, I'd love you to share. You've got a lot to share with us today. Pablo and Rusty's, you know, your journey with Pablo and Rusty's and now Husky. But before we get into that, I'd love you to share your backstory and just share with us, I guess, the key milestones that brought you to do what you're doing today.
Yeah, I think there's various points along the journey that you look back at and think that they were significant moments or transition points or things that led to something change in your trajectory. Look, I started doing my own business when I was at university. I studied chemistry initially and then sports science. I had ambitions to be a doctor, but let that go. I actually sat the med exam, but ended up pulling out after I was accepted and decided to take a different path.
For a bunch of different reasons. But starting my own business at uni was really great and that was really transformative in the sense that, it was just a really purposeful sense of what I could deliver and feeling like I had value to give and the ability to take control of what I was doing and just even look at a really small scale. It was just a small personal consulting business doing fitness training and working with elite athletes.
But it gave me really great perspective on how to work with people, how to run a small business and just get some runs on the board from that perspective. And so I thought that was a really useful early part of my journey that then led to a bunch of different things. I actually went traveling. I let go of that business, came back and worked at a corporate finance business, which was great. I actually loved that. I thought that was really fascinating.
I learned a lot, having no experience or practical knowledge in finance whatsoever, but ended up becoming general manager of a boutique finance firm. And that was great. and just that's quite a jump from fitness instructor and and wannabe doctor and yeah you know i think in your early 20s you're trying to work out who you are and what you want to do in the world brilliant and.
But I was surrounded by great people and was really inspired by a couple of the directors and key people there that just gave me a real, definitely a greater depth of business and a real sense that business can cause change in the world in a good way. So even though it was, you know, really bedded in finance and property were our kind of key focus areas, it just gave me a broader landscape of business, of people, how to operate professionally.
And, you know, we won some really key projects and I think that gave me a sense of scale and the ability to think bigger than, you know, some of the small things we were working on. So that was a really good experience and then I guess after that there was an opportunity and I'd started to think about coffee and a few other industries and coffee opportunity came up and started to think about... What made you start thinking about coffee?
Oh, look, I'd actually been working at a coffee factory when I was at uni. So I had a little bit of experience. I'd learnt a little bit of how to roast coffee. I sort of dabbled with blends and, you know, I mean, I was sweeping floors, I was packing bags, I was doing, you know, the very basic elements of that business. But again, good exposure, any experience is useful to stack into your overall portfolio of capacity.
Absolutely. Even if it's packing bags, you know, sure enough, that actually, you know, came around as a really valuable thing. And from there, it just was this, the coffee industry was interesting. It was really starting to kind of grow a little bit. The cafe scene was starting to bubble away. I was interested in cafes. I'd actually helped a few friends with their cafes. It was just a fascinating space and fascinating.
But there wasn't really much in the coffee side of things, in the roasting side of the industry. So in looking at a cafe, I was like, well, you know, maybe there's opportunity to supply coffee to some of these cafes because, you know, I was interested in a cafe, but I couldn't put my finger on what coffee I'd want. And so maybe there's other people that might be in the same boat looking for a really good coffee.
So a group of us actually got together to set up a contract roasting facility with a few other people thinking the same way.
And, you know, this business idea was a great idea. we're all going to go in we're going to you know you know there's going to be five or six of us I think at the time and and just when was this Saxon and how old were you gosh this is 2000s really early 2000s so I would have been late mid to late 20s okay and then they just each dropped out so there was like you know one by one different reasons you know couldn't commit couldn't do it couldn't make it work etc and
I was the last one standing and I was like well well, I'm going to do it anyway. So I kicked it off. That was a contract business. And then six months or a year later, I'd started Pebble and Rusty's as a little side brand of that business, and ran them separately actually as two different businesses. That kind of bubbled away, ended up setting up one, two, then three, four cafes under that brand.
And around that time, I then sold the first business I had and then just started under Pebble and Rusty's. And so So Pablo and Rusty's became not just a cafe brand but also a wholesale brand and a roasting business and kind of kept growing it. So it was the foundation of a long journey. I still own that business today. So it's 20, I think, gosh, 20-plus years now. Fantastic. And tell us a little bit about that business, Pablo and Rusty's, how big is it, what's it doing, what's its purpose?
It's a B Corp, B Corp certified? Yeah, so Paddle and Rusty is definitely an impact-driven business. I mean, that's something we all at the business love. I've actually got a CEO that runs it, so there's a full team. We've got a leadership team, and it's quite well-structured now. There's about 50 people at the roasting business, cafe business probably another 30 or 40, so close to 100 people all up. So it's a good-sized business, but it's really just a business that wants to
do something good in the world. We're unashamed about wanting to grow. We really love the idea of growing the business and making it bigger, But really, off the back of that, we know we can do more. And so, yeah, we're B Corp. We're carbon neutral, for better or worse. We're 1% for the planet. So we give 1% of gross revenue to various charities that do environmental work. So we feel like we can give back a little through that business.
And also the coffees we buy, we want to, you know, the goal, we're not there yet, but we want to buy regeneratively grown coffees where we're not causing deforestation or issues at farms. farms we want to work with and support farmers around the world. We work with some great women in coffee projects to support female growers in different countries where it's typically a male-dominated space, you know, in farming in those, you know, those countries where coffee is grown.
You know, so we have a range of different projects that we're partnering with all over the world, which is fascinating and fun and great to be part of. And so, yeah, it's very much a business that's trying to do good, but also trying to grow and trying trying to give people great coffee you know our goal is to get great coffee to people all over australia and where they can feel good about the coffee they're buying and and ideally we i think it tastes great so it's a nice bonus.
And tell me, did it start as the roasters or did it start as a cafe? Well, I had the contract roasting business at the start. And so it was the obvious supplier to the cafes. Yeah. And then once I sold that business, we started roasting under that brand. But I guess it started as a cafe business. And the cafes really were our way of getting in touch with what was happening on the ground.
It was a great way to connect with different customers, to try different blends, try different and coffee, really experiment with how we brew, how we made coffee, our philosophy around the science of coffee. We were really focused on the science side of it. I mean, I think that's just from my background. I love the science side of things. I always have been passionate, interested in science. Back to your doctor aspirations.
Well, even earlier, I was a member of the CSIRO Double Helix Science Club when I was like seven or eight or something. Oh, really? That's amazing. I love that. I used to get my little science kits and got in trouble at school for doing, let's just say, a little progressive experimentation in the science labs. Wow. So you were a mad little scientist. Yeah. So I was just fascinated by, I think, the things you could do and make.
And, you know, chemistry and science is really just looking at the ultra detail of matter. You know, how do things interact? act and funnily enough you know coffee is really you know it's a combination of biology agronomy.
Chemistry physics you know all coming together it's a it's a it's a beautiful synergy of all of those things so you know we look we think of coffee often as you know that you know the art of coffee or you know for me that's really just a loose way of saying you don't really know what you're doing you know science is the ability to replicate and really understand what's going on you know, at an atomic level, really.
So, you know, we zoom into that detail and use that to get a really high quality repeatable outcome. And I guess that's been part of our success at P&R is just to really understand and know how to drive results and produce the kind of flavors on a repeated basis that we're aiming for.
And then, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then to actually create the lab environment almost through the cafes to understand what your cafe customers were, you know, the challenges they were experiencing, the environment they were operating in. Yeah. And also because we have a huge wholesale network, having our own cafes means we can speak with some level of authority to them about what works, what doesn't work, trying different pricing models.
You know, like even right now, pricing is a big issue for cafes and we can experiment with that in our own stores. And then use those learnings and say, hey, you know, we tried this, it did work, it didn't work, you know, and it sort of helps them take less risks where we can, you know, take a few more risks, I guess. That's really interesting. So, you know, that scientific approach you said you think that probably contributed a large part to the success of Pablo and Rusty's.
Is there anything else that you think would have contributed to that success? I think fundamentally the unseen nature of a great culture. sure. You know, the team is amazing. Ultimately, the people that are there just love it. You know, we've got a significant number of our staff that are over 10 years. We've got a lot of staff over five years. You know, we have a very low regrettable leave rate, you know, where people are leaving, you know, not enjoying what they do.
So, you know, we want to create a place where people love their work. And, you know, I think we've done a pretty good job at that and people stick around. And as a result, you have that continuity, you have that depth, you have that that trust. You have the ability to get things done in a really efficient way. And we have healthy conflict. We have critical conversations. We really try and challenge the team to be deliberate about dealing with issues. But at the same time, we want to work hard.
We have high expectations, but we also want to create opportunities and have a lot of fun along the way. So it's a balance, right? And if we get the balance right, that's a real driver of success for the business. And five, ten years, I mean, in an industry that tends to be quite transient, that's quite an achievement to have people staying there for that length of time.
Yeah, I think so. So, Saxon, when we spoke previously, I asked you, how did you manage to start Husky when you've got this business that's growing? And you shared with me your philosophy to your own role within business, which you also apply to Husky. Can you share that with our listeners?
Yeah, sure. I guess as an extension of my previous comment, one of the things is to really allow people to come through and to replace yourself, you know, to find a way where people can actually continue to move forward and develop. And one of those things was my CEO and he was coming through and actually he wasn't the CEO at the time, but really wanted to create space for him to extend his capacity and what he was able to do.
And ironically, that meant pushing myself, firing myself and creating space for him to come along and take that role over.
Certainly, there's no regrets in doing it and what it did do though funnily enough was actually create space for me to do other things and look at other opportunities and continue my own journey and to really push forward with what I could work on and so I moved more into the creative side of the business you know other other ideas the the opportunities that surrounded us and Husky was interesting as I was spending more time with farms in different parts of
the world one of them was in Yunnan province province, which is in southern China, stunning part of the world, mountainous regions, beautiful rivers, probably not what you first think of when you think of China. It's down in the tropical region. It's just beautiful landscape. And there's quite a lot of coffee grown. And we set up a business, myself and a couple of others that were on the ground there to process coffee there.
And what we really want to do is work with some of the local farmers and villagers that had a few challenges first of getting their product to market but also just creating a quality product so we set about improving the quality of the coffee there i've started exporting it and.
Started to really understand some of the challenges on the ground and one of those was the waste and byproducts of coffee and husk was this i'm skipping through a lot by the way this is this actually took quite a few years but anyway what one of the challenges we ended up coming across was waste husk that was piling up it's it's a process where when you produce coffee there's a these cute little red beans you take off the skin there's
the flesh underneath you take that off there's another layer it's a fibrous shell layer that you have to mill off that's the husk layer and then the bean under all the seed underneath is is the bean the coffee that we then roast in that processing you take off the husk and it gets discarded and it piles up and the problem with that and this happens with coffee farms all over the world the husk then piles up and you you can use some of
it in compost you can only use a certain amount to get the nitrogen carbon ratio right but that pile of husk then just gets wet and molds or you have to put in compost or you have to ship it away, you have to dump it, you have to do something with it and it's a real headache. A lot of farmers are just really struggling and any extra income is a good thing. David Elikwu Husky was kind of born out of this idea of what if we can create products with
that husk? And so Husky, husk plus coffee, that's how the genesis of the name, is then this idea of let's do something with it. So we weren't really thinking about a business so much as just trying to do something with the husk. Firstly, to get rid of it at a low cost for the farmers. And then second of all, if we could create something with it, then great. That kind of paralleled with an idea at the cafe level where single-use cups was an issue.
You know, war on waste was a big thing. People were talking about this waste. And so we kind of merged this idea of, wouldn't it be cool to make something with the husk? Maybe we could do something to solve the single-use cup problem at the same time. And so we, again, skipped a few steps. We made a cup out of husk, and it's a reusable cup, and it's a cup that's made using that waste husk. And we actually buy the husk from farmers now. So it's now an income stream for the farms we work with.
It's a product that's not going to landfill or getting dumped. And it's using or creating the opportunity to use less single use in the cafes, you know, wherever we provide it. And now a business that's in 80 countries around the world and we've produced millions of them. So it's turned out to be a good little project. A good little project. Can I just stop you because you've just, you know, you've just taken us through this and made it sound so easy and so seamless.
And I just want to understand what you did with the coffee husk. It sounds very scientist of you, Saxon, going back to your childhood roots of science and experimentation. Was anybody doing anything similar? Look, there were a few people doing things with rice husks or a few other materials.
We didn't have access to what they were doing or how they were doing it, so we really were on our own in that regard and we needed to be because coffee husk is different again and so you have to really start from scratch with any natural material you really have to understand it the great thing about coffee husk is it's it's pretty much pure lignocellulose which is a quite a standard form of cellulose that you can work with so we and it's
really high purity which is fantastic so in other words there's there's almost no contaminants obviously coming from a food product is great i mean we had to test it and ensure that's the case but it's a very clean pure substance and when it comes straight out of the mill when we catch it it's it's a great substance to work with it's dry it's easy to break down it's easy to mill so it's actually a really unique product to work with it's actually a great product and so we had
to work with that but we still have to work at you know what particle size and why and what are we binding with and how do we make that come together and how do we you know press that you know we use mechanical and chemical bonds to you know under high pressure to create a new structure from that. So how do we, you know, what equipment can we use? What's off-the-shelf equipment? What's specialist equipment? Who could work with us on this?
Finding the suppliers and the partners and one of the advantages being in china there's a large manufacturing base in china so obviously there's some depth in terms of manufacturing capacity and and partnerships we could make so finding people we could work with was relatively, straightforward but to your point sure it it took three or so years of rigorous experimentation and a lot of money spent on testing and food safety standards and understanding compliance in
countries all over the world, and it's still an ongoing learning and a slightly painful process of ensuring we meet standards because every country's, you know, Euro standards are different to Asian standards, different to Australian standards, the FDA in America. They're all different, so we have to meet all those regulatory guidelines. So, yeah, it's a lot of work. It's a big challenge, and it costs us a lot of money to do that.
I mean, we've spent, you know, over a million dollars in testing and compliance and ensuring we meet, you know, the certain standards we want and also getting the durability of the product so that it's dishwasher safe, that it meets its goals and thinking about the end of life of that product as well so that we can reclaim it and repurpose it ourselves, which we do. We collect it back. We've got a program called Husky Loop and we collect back
our products at the end of life. What's it called, Husky Loop? Loop. Husky Loop, yes, okay. So it's bringing those products back.
We reclaim them. We have a buyback program from customers where we'll give them a credit it and get them sent back and then we turn them into new products and what we have now is a dog bowl made a hundred percent out of old husky cups we're still filling those so we haven't done anything else yet but the plan is we'll have a range of different products in our husky loop range which is purely made from reclaimed husky cups that's amazing that's amazing
and i just there's so much to love about what you've shared because you created a new industry you created a coffee husk industry. You talked about how it's not just about looking at what do we do with the husk that's dumped. You actually buy it from the farmer, so it's an income source. Well, it's funny. We often get people ask us, oh, you know, do you run out of husks? Well, the short answer is no. There is so much husk. We will never run out of husks. So that's a good thing.
The other funny thing that happens to me when I'm at like coffee trade shows and they go, oh, you're the husky guy. They're like, do you want to buy my husk? You get these farmers that are like, oh, my gosh, are you serious? You're going to buy my husk? Are you kidding? That's amazing. Maybe you need to create a husk dealer network around the world.
Yeah i mean the problem the highest cost for us really is shipping the husk so it's really about manufacturing as close to the farm areas as possible because trucking the husk around it actually the highest cost it costs us more than what we even buy it for so that's a consideration so you know we have to be mindful of you know where we ship it but look if if we could we'd love to produce it in other regions as well you know whether it's india brazil or indonesia Mexico,
you know, any country which is copy producing and also has manufacturing capabilities, but that's something for down the track. That's an amazing ambition though. And I love that. You know, you started with the challenge of looking at the waste, but then you added the other challenge of, or problem of, you know, single use plastic and how you might marry those two challenges together.
And it seems to me from what you told us that, you know, your curiosity, you're working through this problem, you're applying, you know, science and looking at how you might innovate through this is creating value for so many different stakeholders along the way. Yeah. I mean, that's the goal. We're not perfect at it.
And, you know, I think any product development, you know, has a cost, you know, whether it's freight and transport or, you know other other elements packaging even you know we're trying to get our packaging footprint down and local shipping you know there's there's still a footprint to what we do so we still try and be mindful about how we can solve for that and you know we're setting ourselves you know bigger challenges going forward especially as it relates to reducing people's dependence
on single use certainly in the cup space but also other food packaging and thinking about what can we do differently and how can we solve that and and perhaps our product that we've got now isn't the best for that maybe there's an even better way of doing that so you know we're actually working on a pretty significant project right now where we won't even use coffee husk. Why? Because perhaps there's even better ways of doing it.
And trying to solve too many problems at once can often mean you're not doing the best in any of them. And don't get me wrong, I think the core Husky product is great. And I think it does a lot of great purposes. But as we set our eyes on bigger challenges, and as we've built the team, and I think we have the scale and scope to dream a little bigger, sometimes you get caught in the bottlenecks that you've got.
And you have to rethink and go back to ground zero and go, okay, well, if we're starting from scratch trying to solve this problem, what would we do differently? And sometimes you have to, you know, cannibalize your own business. And so we're doing that as we speak. We're creating new products that actually will potentially impact the sale of Husky cups.
But at the same time, we're balancing that with our broader and bigger ambitions about solving, you know, what I think are pretty significant challenges right now, you know, especially as it relates to the packaging crisis and the amount of waste and deforestation and, you know, that whole thing. And suddenly it's like, wow, there are bigger problems than husk.
And solving husk is great, don't get me wrong, you know, and I think it's really great and we want to support more farmholders, you know, all over the place. But there are big challenges and I think we've kind of got to that point where we can do something about that. And that's, you know, for me really exciting and really opens up new opportunities that help me get out of bed every day and go for it.
That's such a good philosophy to apply to your life. I think it's really inspiring and it goes back to when you were talking about doing yourself out of a job, firing yourself at Pablo and Rusty's. I know, you know, leadership books and everything, you hear a lot about you've got to do yourself out of a job. But I don't hear many stories of that happening, you know. I think they're far and few between.
And so I think it takes a level of real courage but also being driven by something more than, you know, yourself, I guess, you know, you're, you're driven. It goes back to that love question. And I think, you know, what you've shared today shows that you are strongly driven by something beyond that. Enjoying the podcast? If you're looking for more inspiration, head to our website, thecauseeffect.com.au for more resources on how you can
start using your business as a force for good. Or buy the For Love and Money book. Every copy sold allows us to protect one square meter of rainforest. Help us save 10,000 square meters by 2025. You shared with me as well, I think one of the things you were talking about was how do you solve the problem in food courts with single-use plastic? Can you share a bit of that?
Yeah, I think it's a real challenge. I mean, I'm a little disappointed, if I'm honest, that there are brand new food courts still opening up and they're 100% single-use. And it kind of staggers me to think that not only does the operator of that venue, whether it's a shopping center or a mall or whatever. Not plan and think about that.
But that it's not regulated that it's not driven by legislation to to enforce that or to create systems that would enable that so yeah i think that's it's frustrating to watch that so that's something that we're actually looking to tackle to say okay well what does it look like to create systems that could be useful not just in food courts but in thai precincts universities corporate towers council shopping you know areas precincts you
know there are so many spaces that you know in a relatively small environment could totally engage in a reuse solution so that's great but what are the solutions and you know where are they so we've kind of set it upon ourselves to to build it and create it and to make it an option and to lobby government to to say yeah you need to have something in place and to regulate that a little a little better so yeah i think what we're trying to do now
is think about those areas and go well okay if you if you're not doing it because you don't think it's possible or you think it's too hard i guess what we want to to do is make it easier and say yeah it can be done we can show you how to do it we can set the system in place and make it as easy for the operators for the management of the whatever it is the tower or the university or the precinct to participate make it as low cost and impact for the individual
users but again there's a cost for everything you know and i think consumers need to be aware that participating in reuse does cost them something maybe not money but it might be the use of an app. It might be the requirement to go to a dedicated bin. It might require just a little bit of effort. And I think, you know, we've seen it with plastic bags, but I think as we move into a reuse world and, you know, there is focus on the circular economy and.
That's happening at both a federal and a state level, that consumers do have to become more mindful of this. And, you know, we want to help educate and help people understand why they need to, participate. We've just become really lazy and single use is just really easy. You just pick it up. It's easy for the cafe or the food venue. It's easy for the consumer and you just pick it up, you drop it off and you throw it in the tip and whatever.
But we know recycling's really bad. It's less than 20% of what goes into yellow bins makes it to actual recycling. They call it wish cycling. It's this idea that, no, I think I'll put it in a recycling bin and should make it to are recycling. Well, the reality is 80% isn't. So we need to just stop it at the source rather than, don't get me wrong, we should really look to improve recycling.
And there is efforts on that and government's working on it, councils are working on it, but we're not there yet. And there's a long way to go and we need to get recycling amazing for sure. However, let's go upstream a little bit and actually stop it. Let's stop all that plastic even being produced in the first place. Let's stop that single use. And what does that look like? And it really takes a a proactive effort from everyone involved.
And by that, I mean the business owner, people consuming, government, everyone. And for the consumer, it's really, yeah, maybe, well, first of all, take your own, you know, BYO Cup. Just, you know, sitting down in a cafe, enjoy the moment, stop for a minute. Do you really need to get takeaway at all? Can you not just sit there and enjoy your meal and take the time? Or even stand there. Even stand there and take a leap out of the Italians.
Playbook. Never see an Italian walking around with a takeaway coffee cup, do you? Yeah, that's it. And then if you do need to take it on the run, and I get it, there's a time and a place for it, let's find a way where you're not using it once. Let's find a way where you're using that product multiple times. And yeah, you might have to put it somewhere specific, a specific drop-off location, and you might have to check it in with an app.
And that's the kind of system we're creating, but we hope people will jump on board and be willing to participate. Why is it so confusing? It's like, you know, I even find myself, I try and take a cup, but occasionally when I forget and I am on the run, I've got a takeaway cup and I'm like, okay, plastic lid I can put in there, but this bin's telling me coffee cups here and that's just normal trash. It just seems so confusing and there doesn't seem to be consistency,
which makes creating the habits we need to create really tough. Why is that? It's a good reason. I think because there's a lot of different people thinking about it and it hasn't really come together. We're actually on the advisory panel for PR3, which is basically an international standards for reuse systems.
So hopefully, you know, as standards come about and governments endorse standards, then those systems will become a bit more alive, or at least for consumers, there'll be a consistent messaging or consistent drop-off points. So, you know, there's just ways where that will become clearer over time. So I think people are working on it, but I get it. It's not, we're not there yet. We haven't created, you know, good enough campaigns or education or labeling or, you know, whichever part of it is.
And so, you know, that is definitely a thing. But at the same time, you know, it does take time and effort and, you know, we have to think about, okay, well, what is it asking us to do? And yeah, there might be a bit of learning and trying to understand it to make sure we get it right. But I think it's possible. I mean, you know, on the whole, I think people are pretty much adapted to taking their bags to the shopping centers.
Yep, 100%. I was just going to say, it feels like the pandemic actually took us back a few steps because pre-pandemic, I would see so many people with their reusable coffee cups. And then, you know, because of the pandemic, that all changed. So again, it takes that intention and that effort to get back into that habit, doesn't it? Yeah, it was a real setback for reuse. I mean, a lot of cafes were just like, oh, gosh, you know, COVID, does that dishwasher get rid of COVID?
And we actually did a whole bunch of tests to prove that, yeah, a standard commercial dishwasher gets rid of COVID. It's actually okay. And so our Husky swap program, which is where you can exchange your cup, you know, and have a commercially clean cup available, was like, yeah, you can definitely do it. But, you know, it didn't change the sentiment. People were still nervous. Oh, you know, I don't know.
One of the things we're working with on government is to suggest that every, cafe or food venue must have a reuse system of some kind, you know, be it a cup library, be it an exchange system or anything. And whilst that's good in its own right, one of the best things about that being legislated is that it clearly communicates that this is safe. And I think that we need to just have everyone realize that this is actually the safest, the cleanest thing you can do.
I mean, you sit down and, you know, you'll have dinner at a dine in restaurant using their cutlery and plate i mean it's the same thing if a product's been commercially clean then it's good to go and it's the same for rears and and you know cups that that are being provided by the venue so there's no reason why we can't from a health point of view but yeah we we are playing catch up after you know a huge setback that hit us pretty hard at
husky you know that was a like a real slowdown for us in a lot of areas interesting our sales picked up overseas during that time. But, yeah, domestically and in the cafe sector, you know, we saw a huge drop off. Yeah, right. And so what are other ways? You talked about food courts and the problem there. What can people do? What can consumers do to, you know, start to be part of the solution rather than the problem?
Like I think at an individual level is just to, again, like the bag, take your reusable cup. I mean, that's one thing. or if the place has a system, then use the system. You know, if it has an exchange program, use that. If it has a borrower program, use that. You know, like if you did forget it, you know, except that people can't always take a cup with them, that's fine and that's fair. But a lot of cafes are offering things and will continue to do so, so look out for that.
I think if your office, you know, has a cafe downstairs or in the area, you ask the cafe to join an exchange system. You know, a cafe that's part of an office tower is the perfect space to create and implement a system. You know, there's a really easy way just to, you know, people are willing to get on board. I mean, we supply a whole bunch of offices, you know, from the Qantas Tower, which, you know, all Qantas is employees.
And then there's like three or four cafes downstairs and they can swap and exchange their cup, you know, within the one building really easily. So there are programs like that that just make that really simple. And then, you know, again, just enjoy your coffee and dine in. It's a really nice way to have a cup of coffee and it's a great way to spend time. I think we're just on the rush all the time. It's like someone else is already making the coffee for you.
So, you know, you're already saving it a chunk of time, but. There's no reason why you can't just enjoy it. Reclaim five minutes. Reclaim five or ten minutes of your time and the benefits go beyond that single-use plastic. There's benefits to you as well. I feel like we skimmed over Husky and its success and I do want you to sort of give us a picture of what that looks like.
You mentioned 80 countries because the reason I want to do that, Saxon, is I believe that having a higher purpose in business is the single biggest driver of innovation that we see. I have guest after guest on this show which proves that. And some of the innovations that are coming out are just amazing, you know, like Husky. And I want our listeners to understand how that can drive success. So it's not just about, you know, having positive impact.
Pack that's your driving reason for doing it but you know the success that comes as a result of it because you've built trust with customers and other stakeholders so can you just give us a picture of what husky looks like today i know you mentioned espresso is the customer you know what does it look like yeah i think we've moved beyond just our first product the you know the original Husky Cup, which is great. We've now got Husky Steel. We're working with Renew, which is a recycled copolymer.
It's a very durable plastic for events and for other use cases. We're moving into water bottles. We're moving into a range of other products. So expanding our products, which is great. We're moving into new markets all the time. So I guess we see opportunities everywhere. We kind of see ourselves as a design and innovation company as much as anything. And we produce products and systems.
So we're really thinking about system change and what does that look like and designing products or systems, which is an interesting space. And so I guess we're just thinking about, yeah, how do we scale? And I guess as a company, we're now transitioning from just being this, you know, really focused on this one product and getting that to market and that sort of a one directional product pathway.
We're now thinking about what does it look like to set up wash systems and return systems systems and technology through apps and loyalty programs and points and offsets and you know all these different things that sort of come together so there's a lot involved in that and yeah I guess that just keeps us you know excited and as the team's. Grow as the team has grown and we can bring on people that have more specializations that enables us to continue to grow.
And I think it's that constant tooling up of our team and specialization in certain roles that gives us that capacity to go further and, you know, both in our products and geography and trying to, you know, build a business that can really scale. I mean, we're ambitious, but we're ambitious for outcomes, you know, in terms of what that looks like. So I don't know if that answers your question perfectly.
No, I think it gives a picture of not just what Husky is looking like now, but your ambitions for the future. And I assume the philosophy of doing yourself out of a job, you're applying that at the moment to Husky because you seem to be ever looking forward, not just about. Okay, this is successful, so we'll just replicate this as it is and scale that.
That you're looking at the challenges that come as a result of that and the innovation that that inspires so I assume that's because you're you're building a team and you're tooling them up and you're creating more space in your head to look at new challenges yeah and I think and that's true right I think the same approach is definitely there it feels like we're much younger on that journey and it's still you know we're still incubating you know in a lot of ways and still
you know really developing that but we've now got a you know the teams as healthy and strong as it's ever been you know we're really trying to fill out the ranks you know we're hiring for five or six roles at the moment you know we're trying to build that up and and the team that we've got is still learning about how to build bigger teams and to really grow so there's a real stretch happening and so I certainly feel like in the short term I've got my my work cut out for me
you know both with what we've got on the table but also you know building a faster growing team. And I think Husky is different to Pebble and Rusty's. We're growing faster. We're global where the potential is that we could be a much bigger company. We're actually now, I should also mention, we're now part of the Biopack group. So we've actually, we actually merged with them a few months ago.
So we're now part of their team and staying completely independent and running as our own business, but with the capacity and network and And partnership availability with those guys is also there. So it's sort of a strategic shift, but actually means we can scale, you know, at a pretty rapid pace, which is super exciting. Fantastic. And as we start to wrap up this episode, you've got an app, haven't you? The Husky app? That's right. So what's your call out to people on this show?
Get them to download the app. Get us to download the app. Come on. Sure. Go for it. Download the app. The app is great. And the app basically just shows you where are the locations doing the swap. So where can you go and take your Husky cup that you have to own as part of this system? You have to own the cup.
But we are launching a new program. won't be out for a couple of months yet but it's it's basically a program where you can just walk up to any place that's offering it and just borrow a cup and then drop it off at a nearby smart bin but yeah use the app find a cup and stop using single use you know get a beautiful the designs are beautiful i'm just looking so husky.co is the website we'll include it in the show notes It's H-U-S-K-E-E, and the designs are absolutely beautiful. Download the app.
Let's all do our little bit that we can. That's great. So, Saxon, I'd like to invite you to close out the show with your dream, Saxon's dream, like five years from now, six years from now, 2030. If you could achieve, you know, just the best of what you dream of, what could it look like? If we could genuinely have turned the dial in terms of a transition away from single use to reuse, that would be unbelievable.
Because that scale, the impact that has, both just in terms of rubbish removal all the way back to the effect and the draw on deforestation and other environmental issues is so big that really that to me is, within five years, that I would love to see us have genuinely changed how we don't use single use in the same way. You know, for me, that's It's actually really ambitious because I don't think we're aware how big the problem is.
You know, I don't think any of us really see how much waste is around the world, not just in Australia. And so I feel like if we can expand into other countries and be a significant part of that solution, then that would be an incredibly fulfilling outcome for me personally. That's wonderful. And you say it's a challenge because of lack of awareness of how big the problem is.
But that also makes it an opportunity because if we can build the awareness of, you know, the scale of the problem, then hopefully that results in people actually responding and, you know, talking to their cafes downstairs and, you know, doing the little things that can lead to bigger impact. So thank you. I want to thank you for everything you're doing. I think it's amazing. Amazing. Husky is also B Corp certified.
And yeah, if anybody wants to reach out and contact you for collaboration or whatever, what's the best way for them to do that? Probably just look me up on LinkedIn. So it's just Saxon Wright on LinkedIn. And we'll include the link to your profile on the show notes. Saxon, thank you so much for giving us your time. I know you're very busy. I really appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks, Caroline. It's been really good to be on. Music.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the for love and money podcast if you'd like to take a deeper dive into the purpose movement visit us at thecauseeffect.com.au and remember doing good is good for business so if you're not doing good then what are you doing.