coming up in this episode on follow him look what joseph as a prophet is restoring in five years it's dickens right it was the best of times it was the worst of times Yeah. Temple is built. The keys are restored. Angelic visitations. People after the Kirtland Temple dedication thought they were in the millennium. They're like, is this the millennium? Have we been here? Because Christ has come. We have multiple appearances. Maybe we're in the millennium. Within months,
Members of the 12 apostles have apostatized. Joseph and Sidney have to run for their lives. Their life was in danger. Plots to kill the prophet Joseph. This idea of being like prayer and thanksgiving. What happened to being thankful for everything Joseph had restored through God?
They stopped being thankful for the light and knowledge that had been restored from a prophet of God to the point that they were deceived by this evil spirit. Be thankful for what you have. What's better than the plan of salvation? There's not one thing I've ever heard in my life that lights my soul on fire like the plan of salvation. I lived before I was born. I have heavenly parents. There's a plan for this experience here on earth. I can become like my heavenly parents
Are you joking me? There's nothing sweeter. But then all of a sudden, yeah, but he's a bad banker and I lost some money. True. At the same time, be thankful for what's been restored. Families are forever. That doctrine, one stop shopping here. If your heart resonates with that, and you know it does, Creedally, we're the only religion I know of that believes in families are forever. Yet every love song, every poem is like, no, forever love. We trail that from the premortal life.
Let's be thankful. You got that because of a prophet. Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host. I am here with my co-host John, by the way. Now John, section 46 has so many descriptors to choose from so i'm going to use as many as i can here john by the way who has the gift of the word of wisdom john by the way who has the gift of knowledge john by the way who has the faith to be healed
John, by the way, who has the faith to heal. John, by the way, who knows the differences of administration, the diversities of operations. John, you have all of these gifts. It's pretty incredible. Well, I'm seeking them. John, speaking of gifts, we are joined by a person with many gifts. This is Danny Ricks. He teaches up in the religion department at BYU-Idaho. Welcome, Danny. Thank you. Good to be here.
It becomes highly recommended by many of our guests, John. So both of you, we are in sections 46, 47, and 48 today. Actually, not a lot of verses to cover compared with some other lessons we've had. So, John, when you think gifts of the Spirit, the name of the lesson is Seek Ye Earnestly the Best Gifts. What comes to mind? I have the gift of guilt. It's not actually here, but that's what I have.
I feel like every time I study this and I hear that phrase seek earnestly the best gifts I think I need to do that and I'm always fired up when I read it and then I forget and I don't do it so I don't fit your description Hank I need that reminder that the gifts are available and to seek them more often. Danny, as you've been looking at these three sections, what are you looking forward to?
One fun thing about the Doctrine and Covenants, there's not a lot of continuity. Section 46 is unique. Section 47 is unique. Section 48 is unique. There's a lot of individual nuggets I think are really applicable. Everything's enriched when we make sure we understand the context. I remember being a young seminary teacher and they'd say, okay, teach these four sections. Find a common theme. You're like, well...
There is no common theme in these. Jesus is the theme. Get people to Jesus with these sections. John, Danny hasn't been with us before, so let's introduce him to our Follow Him audience. Danny Ricks, we learned, is related to the namesake of Ricks College. He's up there teaching at what is now BYU Idaho. One of our friends and my former student Jonathan Heater wore a Rick's College shirt when he was in Napoleon Dynamite. Sometimes I look at DI if I can find that shirt. That would be really cool.
danny talked to us about being raised on a farm which i love the farmer stories and the farm ethic the farmer habits are so awesome Brother Danny Ricks went to BYU, Idaho and also has a master's from Northern Arizona University. He's taught for over 20 years as a religious educator. This is what I saw in your bio that I wanted to ask you about. on the Navajo and Hopi reservations
I got hired to teach seminaries and institutes as just a young pup, and they sent me down there with my family. Wow. It was wonderful. What was that like? How would you describe that? Yeah. So when you're young, you don't even know that it's anything that anyone else isn't doing. It was wonderful. So I coordinated, I taught release time seminary there, five classes. I taught institute classes and then I coordinated seminary institute.
From Chilchimbito to Kaibato to Shanto to Tuba City, the works. It was wonderful. Pretty amazing adventure. My wife and I often think that that's kind of where we grew up because we had our first born. Literally went down there found out we got hired the day that we brought Avery home from the hospital Some of the greatest people I've ever met in my life
Well, Danny, we are so happy that you are here. I'm guessing throughout our lesson today, we're going to hear a little bit about growing up on a 3,000 acre farm. I hope that that comes up. Here's how the Come Follow Me manual starts this lesson. As Parley P. Pratt, Oliver Cowdery, Ziba Peterson, and Peter Whitmer Jr. left Kirtland and moved on to continue preaching the gospel, they left more than a hundred new members of the church who had plenty of zeal.
But little experience or direction. John, that sounds like us. Little experience or direction. they had no instructional handbooks no leadership training meetings no broadcasts of general conference in fact they didn't even have enough copies of the book of mormon to go around Many of these new believers had been drawn to the restored gospel by the promise of marvelous manifestations of the Spirit, especially those described in the New Testament.
but many found it hard to identify true manifestations of the Spirit. Seeing the confusion, Joseph Smith prayed for help. The Lord's answer is valuable today, when people often deny or ignore the things of the Spirit. He reaffirmed that spiritual manifestations are real. He also clarified what they are. Gifts from a loving Heavenly Father given for the benefit of those who love Him and keep all His commandments and Him that seeketh so to do. Wow.
All right, Danny, with that, how should we start this lesson? Church is small, but a boom and curling that Lamanite mission provides wonderful, wonderful fruit. Ohio is the wild west. it's not the east coast it's rural it's agricultural it's off the beaten path joseph's there now joseph's just a pup himself he's 25 years old at the time
They didn't even realize, I'm sure, how could you? How could you realize the amazing things that are going to happen in Kirtland? More experiences of the father and the son in Kirtland than anywhere that we have recorded in church history. This is already some fun facts for Joseph and Emma. Yeah, seven moves in four years of marriage so far. Then once they get to Kirtland, this is the span of everywhere that they're going to live there.
seven places in kirtland the whitney home the morley farm that's where the twins died and the johnson farm for about a year the whitney store was about a year and a half and the school of profits going on at that time where that was up there and Then they had their own home for four years. And sometimes I think we kind of make Kirtland's like an asterisk in church history. We're like the first vision and then we're in Nauvoo and thriving.
If you break up, everywhere that Joseph lived, his adult life the most is in Kirtland, Ohio. This is their nine recorded appearances of the Savior to the Prophet Joseph, five recorded appearances of the Father and the Son. This is the place and it quickly becomes the bulk of the members of the church are here in Ohio. Thus the command to go to the Ohio.
so people start congregating we kind of forget that everybody is a new convert at this time everyone is there there's no lifelong members no one's been born into the church and raised to adulthood and this mix of cultures had to be so unique There's internal diversity in every religion, let alone Christianity. You've got people that are super pious. We were viewed as a Pentecostal religion at this time.
If you're looking at the culture, we have visitations from God the Father and Jesus. We have angels. we're so comfortable with angels we put them on our most beautiful buildings we like own angelic visitations you mix up all of these people there isn't that culture that we have now you take all of these people new converts and you put them into one room now You're going to have questions arise.
They had some real Pentecostal experiences. I don't know if these are real. How does this happen? Let's ask God. Joseph's superpower. Let's ask God. And then we get this downloaded revelation in section 46. That adds a number of other issues. So gifts of the spirit certainly are a focus. But also there's persecution. We're already getting experiences in New York, Pennsylvania. They have to move because of persecution. And this is even before we get hard stuff.
This is before plural marriage. This is before three kingdoms of glory. This is before we get things. I mean, we're already in too many reality TV shows, but we would certainly be a group that would attract some attention at this time. Do we even allow people in? Some missionaries got beat up really bad. Do we even let people come? Do we vet people before they can come to our church meetings?
That's kind of a contextual breakdown to see why God delivered what he did to Joseph at this time, at least with section 46. Oh, I love it. The church isn't even a year old. March 8th, 1831. Yep, not even a year old. Yeah, we've moved. The growth is incredible, especially those four missionaries planning to go out past the Mississippi River, which might as well be the moon. so far away, yet they stop here in Kirtland.
everything changes. I don't know if Joseph Smith thought, yeah, we're going to start this church and we're going to move to Ohio. Denny, I really liked what you said. Ohio is the wild west. There is no one today that I think would be like, Ohio. Especially those of us in Utah. Ohio is not the Wild West. It is the East Coast almost. For these people, when you're moving this far west, you're getting far away from cities.
We're used to a pretty orderly thing. We know what's going to happen. The bishop's going to welcome everybody or remember the bishop. And then we're going to have an opening hymn. And then we're going to have an opening prayer. And then we're going to have Lord business. And none of that stuff had been figured out. Boy, Danny, what you said is like, who do you let in? And maybe if people are gonna beat us up,
Hank, I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but you guys remember that John Whitmer was a historian for a time. I was reading in Stephen Harper's book and he tells us, I wonder if this has ever happened to you. He tells this story. Missionary John Murdoch.
Murdoch twins and his companions were preaching in Cleveland a deceiver came forward knelt as if to pray Actually, he was giving quote a sign to the banditry to begin their abuse close quote Immediately, his cohorts blew out the candles and threw ink stands and books at the speaker. So, Hank, has that ever happened to you? Ink stands in books. Oh, my word. Later, back in Kirtland, the brethren counseled some favored, excluding from church meetings, all who are not firm in the faith.
Others oppose the idea, citing the Book of Mormon passage in which the Lord commands to, quote, not forbid any men from coming unto you when you shall meet together, close quote from 35, 18. Both positions seem justified, and that's like when Danny, Joseph Smith says, well, let's ask the Lord. I guess this section sounds like seminary days.
They're going to chuck ink stands and books at you. Yeah, I could say that when I taught freshman in seminary. Something like that may have happened, but that is wild. That'd be... terrifying to go to church thinking i don't know him is he going to be the one that attacks me today The history of persecution is so fascinating to me that it's already prevalent.
it's already prevalent new york is prevalent pennsylvania it's prevalent in the midst of the translation they have to leave and go to fayette to whitmer farm now even in ohio kicking off so fast already even before the tough stuff Because right now, what are we, Danny? We're at church. Basically a Protestant church. with a new book of scripture and a prophet.
You're right. All those things are going to make us unique today. They're not part of this yet. Yeah, fascinating. The lore is pretty clear on what the answer is, though. and look at the language 3 4 5 and 6 never to cast anyone out not to cast anyone who belong into the church out you shall not cast any out verse 6 you shall not cast them out I think it's pretty crystal clear how Jesus feels about who gets leaded. Don't cast anyone out.
Four times. Never cast anyone out. That's three. You're commanded not to cast anyone. Verse five. You shall not cast anyone out of your sacraments. Verse six. If they're not of the church that are earnestly seeking after the kingdom, you shall not cast them out. It seems like the only qualifier I saw was who are earnestly seeking the kingdom. If they're armed with inkstands, If they come in with an inkstand. What do you intend to do with that inkstand there?
Today what I'm more worried about when I'm giving a talk is people disappearing into their phone. But back then it was inkstands and books. Give the signal and they come rip you off the pulpit. I had a fun conversation with some of my students yesterday. We were in 3517. Okay. In 3517, Jesus says something so beautiful, right? After they say, Father, don't leave us. Jesus, don't leave us.
In seven, he says, if you have any sick that are among you, bring them hither. He goes, lame, blind, halt, maimed, leprous, or withered. And then this thought though, or deaf, or that are afflicted in any manner, bring them.
my students beautifully brought up man everybody's welcome i want everybody if you have this problem i want you if i have this problem i want you i think that we've grown a lot culturally where if someone was smoking outside the church i don't think anyone would have any problem being like you come on in here you sit by me if you have problems if you have chastity of challenges.
pornography challenges alcohol whatever it might be you come and sit by me i think that we've grown a lot that way and i asked my students this i was like how many of you would have zero problem wave if like you come sit by me all of them man you just even feel us we're like we're so good right yeah look at us and then you bring up okay so if everybody's really welcome
What about someone that just posted horrible things? What about someone that's sexist? Any of the ists. Bring up any ists you want. Now do you want them to sit by you? And instantly we start to be like, well, it's interesting that we've shifted a little bit culture. Like, oh man, that's no, no, no. We're so welcoming. We're so welcoming. Does Jesus really want that? And the answer is yes. Jesus wants everybody. Jesus wants everyone.
regardless of your problems regardless yes you have problems but so do you your sins smell different Jesus wants smokers drinkers carousers jesus wants sexist racist he wants everybody because he's like you give him time with me and i can work with them afflicted in any other manner
Yeah, any other matter, afflicted in any matter. I want them and then you give me time with them. Give me time with them and we'll make them what they need to be. Jesus picks, look at his original 12. I'm going to take Simon the zealot. I'm going to take Matthew the publican.
opposite ends political spectrums he goes no give them three years with me give them three years with me and we're going to see what they can be don't cast anyone out if we think that we should and i think a lot of times our instant thought is like oh i would never do that unless it's a sin you really don't like and don't get me wrong i'm not justifying don't be a racist don't be a sexist don't break commandments go and sin no more
At the same time, I want you there. I want you rubbing shoulders with people. I want you feeling loved. I want you studying and letting the spirit work in you. All of us should be grateful that we're not the same person we were 10 years ago.
that's what it all that is kind of a gut check oh yeah yeah you smoke drink come on in come sit by me but then when we start to say well not them and not them we start to sound like the new testament why are you eating with sinners why are you sitting as sinners the sins that we have problems with may be shifted a little but we still have this problem i think that we need to be mindful of at least we need to be mindful don't cast anyone out
Danny, I love that you pointed out in these four verses when you say, could the Lord be more clear? And just in case you didn't hear me, the first, second, third, here's a fourth time. where I'm going to say, don't cast anyone out. How can we be better? about this. I'll give you an example. What if I'm at a youth activity and here comes somebody who's not dressed the way I think they should be dressed for a youth activity? Do I say, you got to go home and change?
You better follow the Holy Ghost is the first thought. You better follow the Holy Ghost. I want to share a quote from President Eyring, actually. This is 1989, November 1989, President Eyring. He said, gratitude for the remission of sins is the seed of charity. The pure love of Christ.
Sometimes we think we can like white knuckle this thing like, oh, I'm going to love people more. Oh, it's my goal. I'm going to love more. I'm struggling with roommates. I'm struggling with a kid, family problems. I'm just going to love more. I'm going to do that. The easiest way I've found to do that is to start realizing that you're not the ripest peach in the batch either. You've got problems. Look in the mirror, right? Look in the mirror like you're no peach.
You have plenty of things that are annoying. You have plenty of things that people have to put up with. You have plenty of things that I'm sure are frustrating to the people you are around.
so why don't you just be grateful that god likes you and grateful that god loves you and if you gratitude for the remission of sins that i am clean i'm not what i was quoting shakespeare right twas i but tis not i yeah that was me but it's not me anymore And because he's been so gracious to me, it's easy for me to love others.
because he's forgiven me i mean that example you bring up so this person wore whatever clothes or whatever right this person made a comment that's offensive this person's rude this person's whatever it is you stink sometimes too God loves you and he invites you. And so if I can just keep focused on that, the problem is we keep looking off of away from Jesus. If I'm dialed in, I can't believe Jesus loves me. I can't believe Jesus saved me.
then all of a sudden my love from other people is I'm going to be naturally patient with people because I know God's patient with me. I can't get over it. It's one of my favorite qualities of God. He is patient with me. That line, gratitude for the remission of sins is the seed of charity. Like your problem is we forget that we're so messy. If you start to forget that you're a mess, you start being unrighteously judgmental. But you're saved.
And if you remember that, I don't even know if you noticed, Things that don't matter. You see souls. I don't see the person that smokes. I don't see the person that's dressed immodestly. I don't see the races. I see a child of God that needs Jesus and I need Jesus. And so we're bound by our need for Jesus. There's no secret sauce. It's repent. It's the doctrine of Christ. Exercise faith in Jesus. Repent with Jesus. And if I'm just overwhelmingly grateful that I've been forgiven,
then it's easy for me to love. It's easy. Hank, we did a follow him story. about the kid that showed up to my Sunday school class with the Mohawk. Do you remember that? Yeah, follow him favorite. Yeah. Well, in the story I told, I went back to there is a God and he loves you instead of the topic in the manual that day.
We never got to dress and grooming and for the strength of youth. We stayed on there is a God and he loves you. And I love the idea that God will take us where we're at. He won't leave us where we're at, but he'll take us where we're at. We have that sign on our church. Visitors welcome. Do we mean that? I wonder if it could be more visitors wanted. We want you here.
i want to quote from an article here i found online i wish i knew the author said this countless times as a missionary in new england or helping the missionaries when i lived in south carolina i had investigators mournfully say i want to come to church but i don't have nice clothes To that I would always quickly reply, if we wanted nice clothes at church, missionaries would be sent to department stores.
The Lord wants all of his children there. Dress your best to show respect, but his church welcomes visitors regardless of how they look or how they even smell. And then this author shares this story, and it is heartbreaking. He said, recently Elder Holland spoke in my state conference. He shared a story from his youth of a young man from southern Utah who was on a rival sports team. He explained that this man had reached out to Elder Holland 50 years later to share his story.
This young man came from an abusive family. His dad was an alcoholic, and he beat his wife and children. As the oldest son, he would try to stand up for his mom and siblings. feeling overwhelmed. He remembered that when he was a kid, he was baptized.
but his family had not been to church since then. He was never ordained to the priesthood, but he thought he could go to the church for help. He gathered the courage and walked into sacrament meeting wearing his grungy clothes, and the very first thing Someone asked him, what are you doing here? Did you lose your game last night? And he never went back.
Over the next 40 years, he grew up, got married, became an alcoholic himself, ruined his marriage and hurt his kids. Decades later, he has come back to the church and he was informing Elder Holland that he was being ordained a high priest. but he admitted shame and regret for years lost, for never being able to talk to his grandsons about missions or about blessing or passing the sacrament. And then Elder Holland says,
I don't know if that member was too young or too old to understand, or maybe they just did not get what they were doing. And he then charged us, the author says, he literally was shouting. Never, never, never, never do anything like this where you will look back with regret. We can't go through all the ways, can we both of you, that we might say something or even look at someone that causes them to think, I don't belong here. I shouldn't be here. What am I doing here?
Satan preys on that imposter syndrome. Like, I didn't grow up like them. I'm not smart like them. Whatever might be divisive. He would have us focus on that rather than having everybody focus on what is in common is that you're a child of God. There's a place. All are welcome. It's a hospital for sinners, right? Not a country club. That beautiful parable from our Savior, right? He scoops up injured people on the road, takes them to the inn, take care of them. Elder Gong's great talk.
about we're the end the church of jesus christ is the end to minister to each other it's madness that my arm's broken your leg's broken i'm like man can you believe they let people in with broken legs can't believe they let people in with broken legs no everybody's messy Everyone is messy. Be grateful that you have a spot. A little humility can really help you not say something or do something that would cast someone out. John, what do you think? How can we really get to the heart of this?
My mission sure helped me. I saw people come in with t-shirts with beer advertisements on them and flip-flops. And what was our response? Thank you for coming. We were so thrilled when anybody came. I think it was Elder Ballard that said once, what would people think if we were the only ones they ever met at the meeting? I've been guilty of this when I look around. I don't recognize that person. I hope the bishop finds him. Or I hope the eldest quorum president finds him.
But I got to go. I try if I see a new face to go say, hi, you know, we're so glad you're here. If all of us could do that, people could just be gang tackled by kindness. present packer's uh quote comes to my mind right like true doctrine understood changes attitude and behavior so if this is a challenge if and if you see this in yourself let the mirror emerge where is this in me
Am I as accepting? Am I as welcoming as I want to be? And welcoming is different. Not everybody is bubbly. I am a child of God. It's in vinyl in people's houses. It's cross-stitched places. Do I really have it in there and in here in my heart? If I do, then this naturally takes care of itself.
I see everybody as his, if I see everybody as if they're God, so it's that doctrine if i really understand the doctrine not like pass a test on it i think members of the church overall at least i would hope if i gave them true false are you a child of god i think they would say true Okay, then how does that look in how you treat people? In all people, other sides of the political spectrum people, on social media people.
My family, my siblings, my parents, like I'm really viewing them through this doctrinal lens that is transformative. If I am, then they are. Children of the Almighty God. What would you do, John and Danny, if a member of the bishopric wore overhaul? He just walks in, he's in his overalls. Because this happened in Cardston, Canada.
N. Eldon Tanner was in the bishopric. He was advisor to the deacon's corps. Brother Tanner found that some of the boys were not attending because their families could not afford Sunday clothes, and the boys were embarrassed to wear their overalls. He made an agreement with the boys, and when they showed up at church the next Sunday wearing overalls, there was Brother Tanner also wearing overalls. He won the hearts of those boys, and soon they were all active.
so instead of judging someone for what they're wearing go ahead and wear what they're wearing say i can dress like that and come on it and all of a sudden danny as you brought this up i know we're only a couple verses in but my heart is just beating We've got to do this. I think Jesus is happy because that's what he says he wants to happen. Hank, in verse 1, they're spoken to you for your profit and your learning. That's a sweet thing, isn't it?
Oh, Hank Danny, this story is hard for me to tell because it just makes me so sad. But I had picked up something from a rental place. I needed to rent a pump for something in my backyard. I accidentally left my triple combination and my class roll on the roof when I put up the trunk and I drove off.
I can't remember how many days later I get a call and this guy said, I found this and it looks important. And I go back to the rental place and thanked him profusely for saving this stuff for me. Never did find my triple combination, which was sad. We started talking about the church and the gospel. I told him you should go. I went to Desert Industries with him and we got him some clothes to wear so he'd feel comfortable, basically.
I looked up online where his building was and everything, and I can't remember exactly how long it was when I found him again, maybe back at the rental place. But he said, I went, and as I was walking in, somebody stopped me and said, hey, are you just here for food? Because if so, we don't want you. to this day I'm so as I talked to him again I said come with me come to my ward come and sit by me but I never saw him again
Isn't that awful? I mean, it's hard for me to share that because it still hurts. Somebody thought, if you're just here for welfare or whatever, you're not welcome. Turn around and... So he did. When we're talking about adults like this, right, youth are going to make mistakes. They're going to say things they probably shouldn't say. And adults say, well, let that youth. I'd rather the adults listening, including the three of us, let's look at us.
Well, I love what Danny said about look at the true doctrine. Look at the parable of the Great Supper. Well, the normal guests that know how to dress didn't show up. let's go see who else we can get and at the end it's like go to the highways everywhere invite everybody so that my dinner feast can be filled with guests. I've thought about that when I thought about this guy. Oh, man. Oh, man. In the spirit of section 46, though.
Jesus is still happy that that man that said that ridiculously stupid thing is at church. Yeah. Maybe by now. there's some recognition that i probably shouldn't have done that you know yeah no no 100 that's true we would want to turn to that person and say no you and jesus is like no i still want him before right before we throw him books at that guy that said the stupid thing i want him to i just want i want everybody else keep him here keep him here i'll work with him give me some more time
Nothing can't be fixed with a little extra time and Jesus that can heal a lot of problems. Thank goodness we have a perfect judge, right? Thanks for that, Danny. Thanks for stopping there. I've held that one inside for a long time because it just hurts to think about it. I just think that's not what was supposed to happen. I was so excited. Wanted to share a different ending on follow him. There will be. That one's pending, John. Yeah. Thank goodness.
I want to highlight just one thought on verse 2, especially remember these early members of the church don't know how they're supposed to run. We've got Pentecostalism. We've got really... stoicism we got puritan like these ideas are really i think there's 25 or 26 states right now we're like early andy jackson's president america's job revolutionary war is not that long ago
and so just keep this in mind that we are so young they're trying to figure it out but what does the spirit look like what does that feel like jesus says in the end of verse two conduct all meetings as they are directed and guided by the Holy Spirit. No one in the world prays like a missionary taking investigators to a fast Sunday. Please. Oh, please.
please don't let anything crazy be said you never know what's gonna happen in that you never know you never know i remember and this is embarrassing but it's true i remember and telling inviting people like you should come to church with us in two sundays You should comment two Sundays. No, not the first one. Yeah. Not the first one. No, no, no. What's the spirit? The Ren Lens. Elder and Sister Ren Lens made this comment. I can't remember the book, so someone look it up and post it somewhere.
But they said this about boundaries. I wrote it in a post-it in my scriptures. Boundaries are set for what we do in the church. And the boundaries are this. Like in a soccer game, basketball, there's borders. And so the Spirit's not going to take you out of these borders. The Spirit won't take you out of the borders. The borders are scriptures, living prophets, the handbook, and file leader.
If you stay in there, the Spirit can take you lots of different places. You can wear overalls to church. You can do a number of things in these boundaries, but the Spirit's not going to lead you out here.
So before anyone gets too excited about, well, the Spirit told me to X, Y, Z, it didn't if it's outside of those boundaries. I like that. That's what this section's about, too. The Lord's saying, no. you get revelation not all revelations from me some revelations from the adversary yeah be mindful of that and the fact if you go to verse 7 talks about and this is a great list
If we're dialed into these things, you won't be tempted by the adversary's temptations and his revelation. You're commanded in all things to one ask of God. If you're praying a lot, you're probably going to be just fine. And those real heartfelt, right? Who giveth liberally. Little beautiful shout out to the Lord. He is so kind and generous. And that which the Spirit testifies unto you, even so I would that ye should do in holiness of heart, walking uprightly before me.
Considering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving, that ye be not seduced by evil spirits. If you want to know what that looks like to have a meeting conducted by the Spirit, do those things. You're going to be fine. I love that being thankful is in there. There's something about if you are thankful, It'll put up your barriers to being deceived by the evil spirit.
Maybe it's okay, Danny, if I have an idea that I don't know if is okay. Maybe ask around before jumping up and... doing that maybe ask a couple ask those borders right you have that border that file leader border
Yeah. I'm thinking of doing this. What do you think? Yeah, that prayer and thanksgiving in verse 7, that gratitude thing, I feel like in so many cases, gratitude is a cure-all. And the place that always struck me is when Moroni says, okay, When you receive these things, Before he says pray and ask God in Moroni 10.4 and Moroni 10.3, he says ponder on how merciful God has been since the creation of Adam down until the time you received these things and ponder it in your heart.
That fills you with gratitude. So I've heard someone say gratitude is a gateway to revelation. Because there's a twin sister of gratitude maybe is humility. Because you're realizing I... have things i didn't earn i have things i didn't deserve i'm blessed in ways that make me grateful There's a humility that comes with gratitude, wouldn't you say?
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And let's think about these saints here in Kirtland, too. And John, you're so good at always bridging the gap here with church history. Joseph, look what Joseph as a prophet is restoring in five years. It's Dickens, right? It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Temple is built. The keys are restored. Angelic visitations. People after the Kirtland Temple dedication thought they were in the millennium.
They're like, is this the millennium? Have we been here? Because Christ has come. We have multiple appearances. Maybe we're in the millennium. Within months, Members of the 12 apostles have apostatized. Joseph and Sidney have to run for their lives. Their life was in danger. Plots to kill the prophet Joseph. This idea of being like prayer and thanksgiving. What happened to being thankful for everything Joseph restored through God?
They stopped being thankful for the light and knowledge that had been restored from a prophet of God to the point that they were deceived by this evil spirit. Be thankful for what you have. What's better than the plan of salvation? There's not one thing I've ever heard in my life that lights my soul on fire like the plan of salvation. I lived before I was born. I have heavenly parents. There's a plan for this experience here on earth. I can become like my heavenly parents
Are you joking me? There's nothing sweeter. But then all of a sudden, yeah, but he's a bad banker and I lost some money. True. At the same time, be thankful for what's been restored. Families are forever. That doctrine, one-stop shopping here. If your heart resonates with that, and you know it does, Creedally, that we're the only religion I know of that believes in families are forever. Yet every love song, every poem is like, no, forever love. We trail that from the premortal life.
Let's be thankful. You got that because of a prophet. These saints that this revelation is given to in five years are going to turn on Joseph. They lose everything. One third of the church leaders in Kirtland. But if they've been thankful, prayer and thanksgiving, it's a sweet combo. It's powerful.
That was just beautifully said. Good job. I love it. Jesus said it. Do you remember when Elder Uchtdorf said, we walk a path of diamonds, doctrinally? We walk a path of diamonds, but we get so used to it, we're not thankful. We're not thankful for the light and knowledge that we have. We can take it for granted and then start beating up on bishops and, oh, they did this, or the young women's president said this. Can you believe they're human? It's shocking.
Yeah, isn't that just the craziest thing? Peter cuts off ears. Jesus calls him Satan. He denies Christ three times, but I have no problem with him being a prophet. jonah runs away from things and even is sad that god saves the people he wants he wants to see him destroyed but he's a prophet but oh mercy not joseph not joseph yeah I show my students where James and John want to burn down a Samaritan village. Hey, let's command fire from heaven. This will be awesome. These are apostles.
that's fine peter johnson john great guys yeah you better be a good banker yeah I really like this. Don't be deceived. Beware lest you are deceived because you can be seduced by an evil spirit or doctrine of the devil. That's all verse 7 and 8. and it's an interesting word choice too that seduced like it's going to it's going to pick at your weaknesses your inadequacies your everything that's going on and drawing you draw you in just so sad so many people especially in this era
fell, but the principles are the same. I need to be prayerful. I need to be thankful. I need to be striving to be holy, walking uprightly before God. So good. I heard somebody looking at this and saying, people think, oh no, so-and-so is having a faith crisis. And you look at the early history of the church and you say, somebody was always having a faith crisis. It's not new. It was ever thus. There's faith crises all the time. Read the New Testament of Jesus with his 12th. And they're the 12th.
Not unusual. There's that moment of Bread of Life sermon. People walk away. They don't like what Jesus just taught. I came for the food, maybe the miracles, but I didn't come to be told I'm going to eat this guy's flesh and drink his blood. So I'm out. Jesus turns to the twelve. Are you going to leave me too? Peter has such a great moment. Where am I going to go?
Do you know what I love about that story, Hank, is I learned on this podcast called Follow Him with a really good host and a so-so co-host, but I learned that Who was it that drinking blood was against the law of Moses? That was a moment of ah for Peter. but he knew that eventually
Jesus would explain it, which he did. This is like my blood. Do this in remembrance of me. Oh, okay. You have the words of eternal life. I'm sticking with you even if I don't fully understand it right now. Where am I gonna go? Where am I going to go? Peter, considering the end of his salvation, where am I going to go? you have the words of eternal life where am i going to go that has plan of salvation where am i going to go that has priesthood and priesthood keys where am i going to go
Where am I going to go that has patriarchal blessings? Where am I going to go that has an organization that helps me bless humanitarian? I can keep going and going and going. The list is innumerable. Nowhere, this is it. Considering the end of your salvation. What a phrase. Yeah. Consider the outcome of all of this and the author and finisher of it.
Both of you and me, we have questions, but I'm okay waiting to find out when it comes to plural marriage. I'm fine waiting to hear it from the people who are there when it comes to any other difficult topic. I can consider the end of my salvation and say, you know what, I'm happy to wait to find out. Kind of like Peter. Right, John? I don't know what he means by that. I don't know why he would say that. But of course I'm going to stay.
How else am I going to find out? Because he has the words of eternal life. Maybe Peter thought, maybe he'll explain this one day, and maybe he didn't know if he would, but he did. Man, I think the power here is how relevant. the lessons you're showing us are. This is stuff we deal with. 1831 or 2025. Jesus knows what he's talking about. Shocking, right? Yeah, he's good. He's good. Let's hit spiritual gifts. That's the title of Come Follow Me. That's certainly their focus.
Jesus, verse eight, wherefore, beware lest ye are deceived and that ye may not be deceived. Seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given. That's an interesting line. remember what they're given for. He says in nine, they're given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments and him that seeketh so to do, that's me. I might not keep them all, but I'm sure trying, seeking to.
That all may be benefited. It's not this thing for you. It's not just a thing for you to, oh, look at all those talents. We sometimes make spiritual gifts with talents. They are not the same.
and we trail things premortally and we're not talking about this we're talking about a gift of the spirit and look at verse 10 and then we'll hit president oak Verse 10, and again, verily I say unto you, I would that you should always remember and always retain in your minds that those gifts are that are given unto the church. We tried, I think, sometimes to over apply. The spiritual gift.
it's a terminology thing yes people are talented yes god's blessed people but when we're talking in this context about spiritual gifts we're talking about gifts god has given to people that have had hands laid on their heads and received the gift of the holy god It's for the benefit of the church, the benefit of the kingdom of God. So Elder Oaks said this, and this is 1986, so is Elder Oaks at this time, titled Spiritual Gift.
quote, the spirit of Christ is given to all men and women that they may know good from evil. That's a gift, by the way, the spirit of Christ given to everybody. and manifestations of the Holy Ghost are given to lead earnest seekers to repentance and baptism.
missionaries as we're testifying as we're teaching our families the spirit is going to touch our children's hearts hopefully our friends hearts our investigators hearts the holy ghost is going to do that but he says these are preparatory gifts
A lot of times people might, with this Sunday school lesson, they may be like, everybody put a piece of paper on your back and have everybody write things they see about them. These are gifts that you have and nice things about you. That's still nice, but I don't believe it's what he's talking about. What we term spiritual gifts comes next. Spiritual gifts come to those who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost.
As the prophet Joseph Smith taught, the gifts of the Spirit obtained through that medium, the Holy Ghost, and cannot be enjoyed without the gift of the Holy Ghost. gifts of the spirit is a gift i don't think that we talk about that very often when we're talking to eight-year-olds and preparing them for baptism
I think it might be a term that we can start using more often. We're like, hey, God's going to give you the gift of the Holy Ghost to bless you, to lead you, guide you. You're also going to receive gifts of the Spirit that will help you build God's kingdom.
Whatever those gifts might be. And then he goes through these amazing gifts we can compare them to corinthians when comparing to moroni um wonderful conference talks about all of the the many many gifts that we have but they're for the building the kingdom brethren you too have the gift of teaching And you're using it to build the kingdom. I think that one day we'll meet Jesus and he'll be like, I gave you this gift. I'm glad that you did something with it.
But again, not talents. These gifts are given. So as we look at this list, keep asking yourself, be like, hey, I have some of these. You don't have time in your lives for false modesty. God's given you gifts. If you've participated in this, God gave you gifts, so start using them. Ask yourself, Kate, because I have this, Man how can I minister better? How can I serve in my calling better? I have a responsibility.
a covenantal responsibility to be a husband and a father and to provide and protect. And he's going to help me give these gifts to do this. Now don't limit, I don't want just to make this thought about church only because President Nelson's taught us that Anytime we do anything that helps anyone, living or dead, make or keep covenants, then you're gathering Israel. But please remember that this is a special gift given to members of the church.
To do what God would have him do in sharing the good news of Jesus Christ with the entire world. That's why he gives people the knowledge. You know that you have a testimony of Jesus the Christ. That's why difference of administration. That's why you have discernment in 23, prophecy in 22, miracles in 21, faith to heal in 2019. That's to build this kingdom. To build this community of Christ.
John, I know you love verse 15. Ever since we looked at it four years ago, and I think you knew it before me, where this differences of administration, does that mean that Look, listen to the Lord in the way you administer these programs because it will change suiting his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. John, do you remember Andy Horton was here with us?
month or two ago and he said he was a stake president woman comes in to confess and thought that he would say get out of here and never turn and he said the spirit was very clear to him that The Lord wants this woman to take the sacrament today. The Lord suits his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. I actually wrote an article for the new era I wrote this article about coming home from high school one day. Okay, Hank, we're talking in the 70s.
stepping across the gutter to go to my house and there was a magazine in the gutter i didn't know what it was and then i was like whoa and every day for two weeks there was this magazine in the gutter and i talked in my article about 1 Corinthians 10, 13. You'll not be tempted above. A couple of weeks it was gone. Yeg article that I talked about a scripture. That was my one encounter with pornography as a teenager. Is our world different today?
Are we thrilled that this verse says that the Lord will suit his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. Today, these young people are being hit with it. It's popping up on their screen. They didn't ask for it. It's on billboards. It's on shows. Some are struggling with it, but I love knowing that the Lord is not only merciful, but he's good at suiting his mercies.
according to our conditions thanks for giving me a second with that verse because that has given me so much hope and made me try to tell the young people hey you're in a different world but God knows the world that he sent you to He knows what you're dealing with. He knows perfectly how to suit His mercies according to your conditions.
I think it's an appropriate thing to look at all of these gifts as attributes of Christ. Christ is perfect in all of these things. And as you study Jesus' life, look how he administers differently to so many people.
Some people, the man of the Gadarenes comes and says, I want to follow you. And he's like, actually, you don't get to follow me. You need to go and do this. Other people come. He's like, no, absolutely follow me. You're like, well, why the difference? Because Jesus knows the conditions of the children of men. Sometimes Jesus flips tables. Sometimes Jesus won't even speak. Everything is made conditional on the needs of the people and who they are.
And especially in the church, as a bishop, sometimes if you wrote down, okay, this happened and this happened and this happened and it looks similar on paper, that person's different than this person that's different than this person. And as you strive to do what Jesus will have you do, counsel will be different. Time periods are different. How is that possible? Because people are different, but Jesus understands that. What a gift that is to have.
Speaking in this aspect of the conditions of the world do you guys remember a talk it was elder packer then in 1992 he gave a talk called our moral environment and he said we have physical environmentalists i wanted to be a spiritual environmentalist for a minute it was really interesting this is what he said it is a great challenge to raise a family in the darkening mists of our moral environment
We emphasize that the greatest work you will do will be within the walls of your own home and that no other success can compensate for failure in the home. The measure of our success as parents, however, will not rest solely on how our children turn out. That judgment would be just only if we could raise our families in a perfectly moral environment. And that is now not possible.
It is not uncommon for responsible parents to lose one of their children for a time to influences over which they have no control. They agonize over rebellious sons or daughters. They are puzzled over why they are so helpless when they've tried so hard to do what they should. It is my conviction that these wicked influences one day will be overruled.
And I can't quote the whole talk, but I loved the hope that that gave. That look, the Lord knows the kind of world he's sending these young people into. It's not a moral environment. And those are his children. Don't forget. I think he sent them because they're awesome and they're equipped to overcome all of this. They're going to go thrash the nations, right, Danny? Yeah. Can I share it with you guys? Here's a quote from Chad Webb.
Now in the General Sunday School Presidency. Enzyme College Devotional, January 22, 2019. According to the conditions of the children of men. And you guys know Chad. Everyone loves Chad. A friend shared with me an experience he had as a young boy. One day his father was very upset after reading the newspaper. He had read an article about a body that was found near where they lived in Southern California.
Certainly the death upset everyone, but another thing that troubled his father was that the report said that although the body had not been identified, they knew for sure that person had lived his entire life in Southern California. They knew this because of the condition of his lungs as a result of air pollution.
My friend's father was upset and while he was trying to live the word of wisdom and keeping his lungs healthy, the environment he lived in was making that all but impossible. Apparently, Experts can do an autopsy on a person's lungs and tell you where they're from. It has made me wonder if it were possible to do a spiritual autopsy. If someone could say, I can tell from your attitudes about certain ideas and issues that you must have lived on earth in 2019, the year this was given.
We may believe we are thinking for ourselves, but it is more difficult than we realize not to breathe the air of the belief attitudes and culture we live in. In a changing world with so many influences and voices cleaving to our covenant, is vital in helping us stay on the covenant path. I love this line. Our covenants help us to keep an eternal perspective, remembering the Lord's teachings and can be a shield against the temptations and influences of the world. so this idea right
of the conditions the children are in, the mists of darkness. When I grew up, different challenges. Young people today, different challenges. Who knows what the next generation will be. I get to teach for 20 more years, 60 more semesters probably. Who knows what these different challenges are going to end up being? Jesus does. And he's going to help people through these gifts of the spirit know how to adapt as moms and dads in the kingdom. My kids are all unique.
My oldest is different than my second. That's different than my third, fourth. If you want to have a testimony of the premortal life, have more than one kid. No kidding. No kidding. Truth, right? Truth. And yet we can receive this gift of the Spirit through covenants, through making covenants with God that will help us gather Israel. And the most important people to gather are the people that God entrusts us with in our families.
Yes, church callings. I love it. 100% applicable and true and aligned contextually. But also, the family is the greatest unit in the kingdom of God. And this gift is a great one. Our young men recite the Aaronic Priesthood Quorum theme and they say, I will use his priesthood to serve others beginning in my own home. I love that line. Yeah. So good. So just study these gifts.
please remember how can I use this gift that I have or how can I ask Heavenly Father to give me this gift because it's a gift. It is given. That's the definition of a gift from the Holy Ghost, from the Father. I need this gift you can then pray for this gift seeking the best gifts the best gifts is the ones that you need right now for your situation that's true those are the ones Want to go back to verse 9 I can't even tell you how much I love the comma and the word and in this verse
You already said it, Danny. They are given for the benefit of those who love me. Okay, I love God, I think. And keep all my commandments. Oh, yikes. You had to say all right there, didn't you? And keep all... Oh, man. comma and Him that seeketh so to do or her that seeketh so to do the intents of our hearts matter We stumble. but we get back up and the intent of getting back on that matters and I'm so glad that extra sentence
is there. Sweet, the joy this sentent giveth, and him that seeketh so to do. Just keep trying, everybody. And the beautiful thing about that is that takes one second to do. If you're listening to this and you're like, oh man, I have it.
then do then like i'm going to seek and as soon as you do that the lord will bless you and he'll help you gain the things that you need for your life for your family's life for the kingdom as we look through all of these gifts of the spirit is there any that you want to highlight And maybe that might be confusing for anyone or any that you're thinking, look, this one is an important idea. Make sure you see this.
Yeah, let's just roll through them. I loved John's thoughts already on differences of administration. I think that can be a confusing one. Please note in 11 that every man is given a gift, so you do have one. Go to your patriarchal blessings and see if you can see one that the Lord articulates to you there. Talk to your loved ones that know you well if you struggle with identifying these in yourselves and ask them what they see.
And remember, this isn't a comprehensive list. Go to Elder Ashton's October 1987 conference talk. The gift of weeping mentioned in there. I like so many good ones. The gift of praying. 13 says, someone is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus is the son of God and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.
Others are given to believe on their words or maybe an extension of it. Some people believe. Some of my favorite people in this world say that they're in verse 14. I don't know, but I believe when I hear them say it. Rejoice in that. I think that we can sometimes get a little maybe preoccupied with wishing that we had someone else's gift. If only I was like, man, my bishop is this or this person is this. I wish I had that rather than.
identifying and rejoicing in the gift that you have that is given to you to bless people's lives. Both of those two, whether you have 13 or 14, you're going to get to heaven. If you have knowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God or you believe John and Hank, when they say that Jesus is the Son of God, faith in Jesus Christ.
Faith in Jesus Christ. And that's that first principle. You can get janky with that so quick. And I think out in the weeds and even miss the very intent that Jesus would have us study and understand these. If you want them, seek them sure, but rejoice in those that have been given. Rejoice in it. Really be grateful. Thank God for it. In your prayers, Heavenly Father, I'm so thankful that I believe when I hear President Nelson witness. When he says it, I'm there.
That'll lead you to repent, which will lead you to make and keep covenants. I find myself, my kids think it's funny. I find myself nodding. I'm sacramenting in general conference. To me, I'm believing in their words. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, you nodded there. You've got to get. For those of you listening only, Danny just nodded at John. I've got in my margin Nephi and Sam. I love how the Book of Mormon unfolds. Lehi gets a vision. He knows.
sarai is like oh man i don't know so but then nephi says hey is dad on the right track and then nephi gets a direct answer and he just tells sam and sam's like yep And then Soraya is like, you're a visionary man. And hi, it just makes me sad when you kill the children. And Lehi's like, I've obtained a land of promise and just wait. And here come the boys over the hill with the plates. Soraya knows and it's kind of fun to watch that unfold
I love that Sam is one of those that is, you're right, I believe you. I can see him nodding at Nephi. Yeah. I've never said a profound word or phrase in my life, but I've quoted a lot of profound prophets and church leaders. And my mom was profound and my wife is profound. I've quoted them. It's their words that have instilled Jesus and a love for Jesus Christ in me.
in those classes that I've said and where I drew closer to my Savior was because someone was using this gift that they had and i'm grateful for that but my gift might be to man when i hear them say it i'm in And I have that determination, that resolve increase. That is no small gift. That is no small gift. Sometimes we think, oh, I'm team B. Yeah, you're not JV.
speaking of quoting someone elder jaffer holland april 2013 he said A 14-year-old boy recently said to me, a little hesitantly, Brother Holland, I can't say yet that I know the church is true, but I believe it is. I hugged that boy until his eyes bulged out. I told him with all the fervor of my soul that belief is a precious word, an even more precious act, and he need never apologize for only believing. I told him that Christ himself said, be not afraid, only believe.
A phrase which, by the way, carried young Gordon B. Hinckley into the mission field. I told this boy that belief was always the first step towards conviction, and that the definitive articles of our collective faith forcefully reiterate the phrase, We believe. And that's right out of there in 14. To others it is given to believe on their word. Hank, I guess it was last week we talked about Section 45, and here's our advocate standing by our side.
Spare these, my brother and my sisters, that believe on my name. It doesn't say spare these that achieved perfection in life, because that's none of us. But spare these that believed on my name. Danny, what's the difference between administration and the diversity of operations? I'm just going to listen to this part. I'm guessing you administer programs, and I've met people who are gifted administrators.
And I think, how do you do that? How do you do that? My sister, Jennifer, she's the administrator of a women's conference at BYU. And I just am in awe. How do you even keep all of those things in order? When I would do something, I usually wait till the last possible second. You can't do that as an administrator. What do you think, Danny? I'm with you. I don't have these gifts administratively. Not my strength.
Which what makes it so beautiful like in our families their gifts are spread out so that all are blessed in callings that you serve in thank goodness there's people that keep track of things because i just like people i like teaching in classrooms and if you can bring people into my office and i'll talk with people in my office but just please do everything else yeah I don't want to know. I'm not good at it and I prefer to never know. So just make that go away.
i asked a friend of mine this question here's a thought that he had on this he has this gift i don't I think this was interesting. It says, quote, this is my friend named Dale Sturm. If you know Dale, he's brilliant. He's been on our show. Yeah. He's brilliant. I've taken his class multiple times at BYU-Idaho the whole semester. I just sit and I'm so annoying, but I don't even care because he's so good. I'll just sit there, take note.
He said, when I look at how Paul uses these exact terms in 1 Corinthians 12, I see that the terms are translations of a Greek phrase that might be more clearly stated as, quote, varieties of service and varieties of activities. Paul adds one at the beginning of this passage, varieties of gifts.
so there's varieties of gifts but the same spirit varieties of service the same lord there are varieties of activities but it's the same god who empowers them and everyone it seems that paul is saying that the gifts are varied and they show up in different kinds of service and different kinds of activities but they all flow from god through the holy spirit
then this checks out with moroni moroni 10 8 the gifts are many and they come from the same god and they are different ways that these gifts are administered but is the same god who worketh all in all and he goes know the difference of administration and know the diversities of operations as specific if you want to make them discreet and specific gifts then i would tend towards seeing the first one as the gift to organize in a way that blesses the members
fulfills the Lord's purposes. And the second one is the gift to see God's gifts in others' actions. Subtle difference, but a difference and an important one. One is the gift to see God's gifts and other actions. As a parent, you need to see this in your kids. in leadership positions in your ward to be able to see even things and the spirit will share those things with you that you never would have saw in them people that when you extend callings to them We'll be like I can't do that!
Almost like Bishop Whitney. When Joseph calls Bishop Whitney, I don't see a bishop in me. Well, then you don't believe me, you go ask the Lord because it's there. How does Joseph know? How does a bishop know? How does a stake president know? How does a Relief Society president? It's like, I need this woman to be the instructor.
she doesn't think she can be an instructor well too bad because jesus sees it and then allows us through the holy ghost to discern that and to grow that's one of the greatest things in the church God's really good at this. And he's like, man, they're going to learn and grow. And how am I going to do this? Because you're going to be putting uncomfortable things. I didn't know that I could teach until I was called on a mission.
It's a gift of the Spirit and a talent and something that's been developed. Maybe a combination of all three. But I certainly didn't know it was there until it was unearthed through a prophetic call in my situation. If you're put in those situations, you can trust in that call that God can give me this. Maybe you would be a good ward clerk. Maybe it's coming down the pipe and God will be like, I'm going to help him learn how to make sure everything runs. Because I'll tell you,
One of the definitions of hell is to not have a good ward clerk. And to have all these things falling apart and you realize how much is going on that you had no idea. I'm like, I didn't know I was supposed to fill this out. We're getting audited. Like that word is scary. You know, I'm like, please just make it go away. Gifts everywhere. Coming up in part two.
Rejoice in the good that they did in the season and let Jesus be the judge. We don't want to dabble in that. Oh, too bad. I don't know. No, that's not our place. I don't think any of us feel comfortable walking up to Jesus, tapping him on the shoulder at the judgment bar and be like, hey, I have some thoughts on this guy. If you're interested. No, let's let Jesus do Jesus.