The Flex and Rooms Daily podcast brought to you by Cata.
It is Flex and Froom's podcast edition. You know how much we love to be here. Today's episode it's brought to you by Froomy's an article that you read by someone.
Greed, James Greed. You're not sure if I'm saying that correctly.
Oh, it isn't grage. But that's not correct English, lad.
Yeah, And he talks all about how we all participate in surveillance culture. If you follow Flex and I on Instagram, you're in surveillance culture. If you're taking a photo of somebody on the bus, you are an op.
But is it correlation versus causation? Again, like, just because I happen to be observing you, am I surveilling you? Yeah? I guess it's a bit of a fine line.
But this dude's argument is that any kind of like online sleuthing, if you're looking through a burner account at someone's story, that's surveillance culture. But what I got out of the article is someone actually articulating how I feel about people who take videos of people when they don't know.
If you look up the episode Flex and.
Frooms Bully, you'll find out a story that I told a few months ago about one of my Instagram accounts that I really love putting up a video this woman, a man, woman and a man in a pub rubbed me right up the wrong way, and I guess, yeah, that goes back to surveillance culture and how I think it's bullshades.
And we didn't talk about it in this episode, but I feel like this is an important time to tell you that you could google this, but this idea of a panopticon state. What that means is the panopticon is a disciplinary concept brought to life in the form of a central observation tower placed within a circle of prison cells. From the tower, a guard can see every cell and inmate, but the inmates can't see into the tower. Prisoners will
never know whether or not they're being watched. And so when we ended up talking about this idea of a state, I think we get further into this idea of being in a panopticon because I often tell you that the opposite everywhere, we're constantly being watched, even if we don't think we are. And that is the spookiest thing ever.
Because I'm sure we talked about it a ton of times, but we'll go into certain venues, or we'll go out on an out and then I'll look in my phone and I'll have so many dms people sending me videos they've taken of me. Now I'm like, oh my god, I just saw you at this place. Just earlier before we came into film, I went in for a little snacky into a drive through. The person who served me at the drive through was like, oh my goodness, I recognize you from Instagram? Can I get an autograph? Gave
for an autograph, got back what is you? Autograph? It on like a nap on the receipt said flex loves you, because who has an autograph these days? Then I got to my phone and the sister of the person who owns said fast food restaurant DMed me to say that she heard that I was in at the fast food restaurant. It's like, that's so many degrees of surveillance that just happened,
And so isn't that spooky? And how many times have I inadvertently told you that you know, you've got to be careful how you're acting through me because you don't know when people are watching. And then you'll tell me, well, I don't want to have to behave any differently, But.
I'm just waiting for it to come right around. And I'm just hoping that for the next five years we continue to do this show so that when I am found out for doing anything unsavory in anyone's premises, we can both shoulder the load.
Huh.
The bustsogether this is flex and frooms on DA.
I won't miss any chance or any time to put rules around what should be a rule free adventure.
If you didn't have the morals that I like, our morals didn't match, wouldn't be into it exactly.
But it's a bit of fun. There are some rules, guidelines for how we should do stuff, And this one in particular came across with somebody talking about the rules they had for friend vacation and I was like, what do you mean, rules like they completely chill what? And he started the videt and I was like, oh, okay, listen to his rules. He said sleep is off the table, which is a pretty fair go because I feel like, if you're gonna go on vacation with someone, at the
very least you need similar sleeping patterns. Huh. I used to be terrible about vacations when I was a bit younger, because I'm a big sleeper. If I can clock out for twelve hours, I'm out. I don't like getting up early. I like staying up late, and so I would be happy to start the day at two. That's not fair to seven am people who want to get up and go, go, go, go go. And while I don't feel any issue with them leaving me, they obviously want to hang out with
their friend. Yeah, And I was like, Eh, anyway. His other three are, don't take anything personal if you're broke, don't come and expect messiness in the room. I was thinking, you're going away on friend vacation, probably about a month, give or take maybe two. Have you thought about your rules?
September seventeenth, going to Europe for the first of the time.
They're gonna meet you at the airport, meet and great in the departure term.
Naw. Yes, I'm going away to Europe for the first time with my friend Pauline. She's one of my best friends. Her and I are very different.
Ooh, she how would I describe it?
She's very flaky self admitted flaky parenting.
She we go flaking in what way?
Though?
In a you organize something, she's going to bail in. All plants need to be loosely arranged to accommodate for her not wanting to do them later on. What is that?
So she has a concept called Pauline time, and yeah, she doesn't believe that time exists, so she just shows up when she shows up. Didn't have social media for a long time. Would go weeks between talking to any of our friends. Gota, so everyone no one knows where Pauline is. Yeah, so I don't know how that's gonna work when you go to group the two of us. But my rules would be independence first. So I'm kind
of an independent person. So long as we're just going to end up in the same room for little sleepy times, I'm happy for you to go do whatever.
Oh, so you don't want to travel with something. You want to travel physically with someone but not have an integrated holiday together.
No, I do want the integrated holiday, but I'm definitely happy to go have a day or two just by myself. I'm not absolutely itching to be around them. An example would be when I was younger and i'd go clubbing, I would do pres with my friends, get to the club yeat away from them, go make new friends, go find some boys.
I'm a solo operator.
I don't want to be lagging behind with you half wits.
That's cheeky, babe, Yeah, what about you. I am someone who I definitely want to have an integrated holiday, but I definitely want my own room. I want to make sure I'm doing exactly what I want to do. Like we're taking turns being the person who's taking one for the team. So if you want to go on a little hiki hiking, I don't want to, I gotta take one from the team. If I want to go to a little store and you don't want to, you gotta take one from the team, and you've got to do
it gracefully and very enthusiastically. Yeah, that's a big one for me. I definitely think that if you don't have the budget, we're not going on a holiday. Like the thing about holidays is like expect to pay three times more for everything because you don't have a home base. There's no you're not really I'm not cooking, I don't have my whole wardrobe there every day. I need to be entertained, and so it's going to cost more I don't want the decisions we make to be can I
afford it? We're on a holiday. The plan was to afford this adventure. That's a big one for me. And my third most important one is not every day has to be fire. Some days the most will do is go out to eat and the rest can be mundane. I think I don't love hanging out with people who are constantly chasing fun, you know, not recognizing that they have to be the fun. The fun won't just arrive when you go to a new place, like bring some of that energy and be down for the night to evolve.
Like you need to be the kind of person who's happy to talk to a stranger, get in a random car, like make a new friend. That's what I want. I want to make a memory. I don't want to just have this passive like lame tourist guide one oh one where to go and roam type trip. Nope, totally.
I don't want to follow any rule books. I don't want to follow any guide books. Just find the best pizza restaurant and.
You want to do it alone, You said, Pauline's flakey. You sound flaky. Going to a club with rooms is walking into the venue with her and then seeing her the next day when you're both at home in bed.
This is flex and frooms on Kita FLEXI.
You are very online. Have you ever taken a video of someone without them knowing?
Yeah, my earlier online days, but definitely strayed four or four four away from that four four four far far far ah.
Yes, yes, yes, well I haven't like I've heard about it. I've seen it obviously all the time. Grew up on that brown cardigan lifestyle. But I hadn't really read a piece that interrogated that in any big way until recently. I found this article by a guy called James greek G I E I G. He's a writer that writes for Guardian I D. Gorka all those kind of like personal essay culture places, and he wrote a piece about surveillance culture and exactly how kind of like the Internet
has evolved to become this culture of surveillance. So that includes taking videos without people undersoing, like taking videos of people in the gym doing embarrassing stuff, et cetera. Like low level snitching is very common, like I saw somebody at this thing this?
Did anybody else see that?
True?
Ops everywhere as we say everywhere. Part of his.
Peace, though, suggested that we all indulge in surveillance culture, maybe in ways we didn't realize. For example, if you've ever logged into a burner account to watch someone's Instagram story, or if you've ever snapped a photo of someone on the bus and send it to the group chat, you're participating in surveillance. Even by uploading images and personal information to the Internet, you're participating in surveillance culture, even of yourself.
And weirdly enough, just as I was writing this down to bring it in, I found this story that came out last week about an Australian woman who felt dehumanized after these TikTok bros filmed her.
Did you see this story? Yes, so basically, even the fact that we're all talking about it is in opposition to what that woman wanted. It's very ironic, I know. Well, basically, was this young guy holding a bouquet of flowers and a backpack. He goes up to an old woman. He says,
can you please hold this bouquet of flowers? As he under zips his backpack, puts on his jacket and goes to walk away, thus leaving the flowers with the woman giving the impression that he meant to make her day by giving her flowers, and then that video blew up and people were in two minds. The first half was like, this is the most obscene, fake set up do good we've ever seen. You were not trying to make that woman's day. You were trying to get clicks, so people
think that you're a nice person doing nice things. Then in the other part, people were like, oh, but what is the issue with doing nice things for clicks? That nice lady her day was made by that gesture.
Turns out it was not, And if you look at the video, you can tell this did not make this woman say.
She's like, what is this?
Why have you She's like, literally in the article she said, I was waiting for you.
Haven't got to the point like you just went in the article. What you gotta go back? What do you mean? Well, the fact that the woman in the video saw herself on the internet featuring in this piece about having her day made, and she's like, the whole internet thinks I'm a sad old woman. I wasn't even sad. I was
just enjoying my day alone. This guy comes interrupts my day, films me without permission, puts me on the internet, creates this whole narrative around my existence, and it's not even true. And I didn't consent to this the even a little bit. Yeah, she said, these artificial.
Things are not random acts of kindness. He interrupted my quiet time, filmed and uploaded a video without my consent, turning it into something it wasn't. I feel like he's making quite a lot of money through it. It's the patronizing assumption that old women will be thrilled by some random stranger giving them flowers. I didn't want to carry them home on the tram, to be quite frank, but
I wasn't given that opportunity. I think other women, especially older women, should be aware that this can happen to anybody.
My mum was also in one of those videos. Can you imagine Lizzie Lizzy featured in one of those random acts of kindness videos? What do you mean? Queenly fainted in a viral TikTok she was now to put some context around Queen Liz my mum. She is the random acts of kindness queen. Her whole existence is random acts of kindness. Here's an example. One day she was having car issues, but she still needs to go to work.
Liz is a terrer. She looks after rich old people whose children have abandoned them to the but pretty much that like she looks after these rich old people who have either had surgery or they're just like bedbound.
And is she very opportunistic, Like is she doing it so that she all their money? No?
No, no, no no. She has a thing with older people. She really feels like they're forgotten in society, and like she goes out of her way in all contexts to look after people who she feels have been forgotten by society. Amazing want like she gotta be card. She had had car troubles, so she's like, I'll just take a bus, and I'm like take an uber, please, I'll pay for it. Anyway,
she does not take a bus. So as she's walking to the bus stop, she sees this guy who has just been in a car crash and he's gotten out of his car and he's sitting in front of his car needs the chest whaling. Any other person be like, let me just walk away, it's not my business. But Liz, she's like, oh, I feel so bad for this guy, like he's just sitting here at the wreck getting abused by whoever he hit. I'm gonna check in on him. So, like she walks up to him and he's wailing, and
she she says, oh, excuse me, at you okay? And he looks up to her. He's like Mom, She's like no, he's like and then she realizes that he's French and he's like actually asking like for his mom as he's whaling. She's like, what happened and he's saying, you know, it's not even my car. I borrowed a car from my friend to do this job on air tasker and I was literally going to pick up money for the job and then return the car. And he's like, now I'm probably gonna have to use what I was going to
make to pay my friend back for the damages. Mom's like, you know, it's okay, Like you seem really stressed. Let's just deal with one thing at a time. So she's like, you know, what's your name and he's like this is my Name's like how are you? And he was only twenty one, and she felt so bad for him because he was freaking out, and she was like, you young people are always freaking out about things when they just need to be fixed, and so she's like one problem
at a time. So she's like, you need to get to this person and get the money. And she's like he's like yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like how much is it. He's like, I think I meant to make four hundred dollars. She's like, okay, I'm going to give this, give you four hundred dollars. You can keep it. Just worry about feeling fine and feeling safe and keeping your composure because you're gonna be here for a little while. This woman gives him four hundred dollars and just leaves. She was like,
I felt so bad for him. He needed a mother. I would have hoped that, you know, I would never want that for anyone to feel so helpless and so alone in a foreign country with no one's help. It's just some shit she does right, But like she also has really insane luck, so like her life is very circular. She does a lot of amazing things. Amazing things happen to her. So she calls me and she's like after on a separate occasion, she's like, oh, I was at Cols and this random guy paid for my groceries and
I was like, what do you mean? And she's I'm like, was he trying to flirt with? You're like, what are you talking about? Lizzie's like, nah, she's like about one of my boyfriends, like just some random guy. I'm like, I don't understand what you're talking about. And she's like, I was just at the counter trying to pay for this stuff and this random guy says excuse me, and I thought he was asking for money, so I was going to give him some coins and then he said
he like paid for my stuff. And I was like, oh, like, I don't know what that is. And she's like, I think he said it's going to be on TikTok. Do you know what that is? And I was like, yeah, I know what that is. Mommy. She's like, can you find him? And I'm like, I don't know who it is. I don't like anyway. So eventually somebody who recognized my mom sent me this this TikTok and of this, I think this guy his name is Jeff, and he's like an Australian Random Acts of Kindness wants a prank channel.
Probably I definitely think there's been a business apart from prank channel to random acts of kindness, but essentially, Mom's in holes paying for her stuff and he comes up to her and he's like, can I pay for your stuff? And she's like, oh, you know why, and he's like, I just want to do something nice for you, and she starts crying. She's, oh god, he's so sweet, so seet,
it's so sweet. He pays for her stuff and he leaves and then she leaves and she feels so like, I don't know, she it's not like she felt guilty, but she's like, this is such a sweet and kind thing. And so she went back and paid for somebody else's like groceries, and she's like I just didn't need the blessing that day, like somebody else might have needed it, you know whatever. But I was like, she was so
genuine about it. And when I saw that video, as soon as that Jeff guy found out that that was my mom, he was like, we should collabse sometime, so't I was like, and I was like, I'm so happy that my mum experienced that as such a genuine human to human we are one, you know, we all originated in Africa time as opposed to. It's really like, I don't know something about it seems very not predatory, but in the way that it's you know, often targeting these
like older women or you know what I'm saying. They're never targeting some alpha bro jim head, juice head, get here away from me, alpha male. How hectic is that? Though?
Wow?
Liz was the Yeah, but she loved it. She like this is sweet. She's like, he seems like a nice guy. You should be friends, do that collab. You're free, So thanks, mommy.
I like that for Liz. I don't like those people. I don't like their channel. I don't like their vibe. I just hate the idea that you do something with the idea that you're going to get something in return, and.
It feels so grubby.
It feels grubbier than getting any kind of like money back from doing something like that.
I don't mind if acts of kindness aren't genuine, you really don't. Yeah, as long as they're not overly exploitative.
Yeah, I don't like it if you're getting something more than It's like I don't know if I want to use this example, but a brand sends you a two dollar bar of chocolate, that's an act of kindness until a post is expected, and then that's the pipeline, the Sacks of Cutness pipeline bro style branded issue.
You're listening to Flex and Frooms on Cada, it's through me.
Have you heard of the Rice Purity Test? No, doesn't even ring a little bell.
Nah.
You're so chronically online though, so I thought you would have for sure heard about this and done the test. My head is in a sand box. Is in a sand box here, robot. The Rice Purity Test is a one hundred question survey that assesses a person's level of innocence. It is a very I want to say it's a religiously formed quiz, but yeah. Basically assesses your level of innocence in like a world full of like naughty things.
So after you do the test, you get given a score, with one hundred being the most pure you can ever be and zero being the least pure. And so all of the questions are about you know, like hooking up, kissing, hand holding, all these kinds of things, with the intent that you would finish the test and get a zero. And it actually got started or it originated at the Rice University in Houston in nineteen twenty four the Texans and to gauge each student's level of maturity and help
them bond with one another. If we scored really high on the tests, meaning we're really pure people, it also gives the impression that we've had the same life experiences. Therefore we're going to bond together. If you scored really low on the test, meaning you're really impure, you've done a lot of naughty things, then I guess that's when they like, you know, do the I don't know, get you into therapy and talk about how.
You need to like throw some holywater on.
You, switch up your life. But I remember I would say tumbler days. I'm talking twenty ten, two thousand and nine. Maybe it was super big because that was people's, you know, way to signal that, like, you know, I've done stuff. I'm not a regular teen, I'm a cool teen, and so people would inflate the scores that they got to be like, oh, you know, like I've done all this stuff. And I was thinking, why what has replaced that now? Because of course I don't remember being eighteen or you
wanted or even sixteen fifteen. All you wanted to do is be perceived as someone who was older and had more life experience, was more mature. But I was thinking, how would this test work in twenty twenty two. Do young people and I'm talking like fifteen year olds care about trying to present as more adult by being more sexual? Essential?
Yes, Because on the weekend I was on the Gold Coast, Yeah you were, and I was lining up to go on this sling shot, which is like this ride that slings you hundreds of meters in the air, very spooky, and in front of us and behind us were two like girlfriends, like little girls. I'm like fifteen, and we just got talking. But we didn't know they were fifteen, so they looked a bit older. So we're told, you think they were eighteen, right, inkling?
They might be underage? Oh okay, but you know no, Karen was ready to report had an.
Inkling anyway, having a chat to them and we're like, you know, me and my friend Louis will want to go clubbing. We wanna go somewhere like queer and fun, and they're We're like, have.
You heard of this place? And they're like yeah.
Later on find out they're fourteen, of course they don't. Oh yeah, but they were the adults pretending they're now where to go?
Oh yeah, And I said like, we don't know. Yeah, I can't say that.
They're like, yeah, yeah, we know that, which was quite nice.
That is sweet. Well, I did end up finding the twenty twenty two version. It's called the Innocence Tests, so not that much better, but we'll see how we go. And it includes like quintessential twenty first century rebellious stuff like you know, sake ideas, sexting, dating apps, et cetera. But I was like, what kind of world are we
living in? Everything is so cyclical, like I would have thought there would be some think piece about how it's like not necessary to categorize ourselves as pure and impure or innocent and not innocent, and how we have graduated away from these titles. No, no, no, they just reading it made it more contextual.
We're always gonna want that aggrading system or finding out what other people have done, like it's fun, yeah, fun to judge. It's fun to judge when there's like a numerical element.
Yeah, I find you gotta do yours later. I'm intrigued. Yeah, send me the link. That's what I wanted it. I know though, so there's no way you're getting pure and.
Frooms FLEXI have you seen on Instagram the NGL links on people's stories, not even a little bit.
I have no idea what this is. It's so curious.
So it's basically like a question box where people can ask anonymous questions via this. Like add on to Instagram, NGL links is called not Gonna Lie essentially, Wait, so.
Is it in Instagram?
It's like a add on, so you go to a third party site, but then it gives you little screenshots to put onto your story.
Huh.
I haven't used the backhand because I'm not gonna go any miny of that bloody out.
But here's what the website says.
It's a fresh take on anonymity, which I personally don't think we need. We believe anonymity should be a fun, yet safe place to express your feelings and opinions without shame. Young people don't have a space to share their feelings without judgment from friends or societal pressures. Yeah, for good reason, keep your bushpeing opinions yourself. Angie Oll provides this safe space for teens.
Don't frame it that way. Do you know what these things are used for these anonymous let me tell you some demonic news about yourself, and they're trying to frame as a safe activity. What about this is safe?
Well, supposedly, it filters out mean messages. So to ensure the safety of our users, we use world class AI content moderation. We utilize deep learning and rules based character pattern matching algorithms to filter out harmful language and bullying. I know what you might be thinking, it's only seventeen year olds using this, but no. One of my best friends uses it. Here's her experience.
I don't know what I was thinking I would get, and I don't know why I downloaded it. It did appeal to me in a way that form Spring did when I was fourteen and wanted to know who was secretly horny for me, and sheel certainly provided that there weren't any mean messages, that's for sure, and I was a little bit nervous about that, given that I have some disgruntled x's following me and thought that would be the best opportunity to really pull me into line.
But no, it was really just messages about.
Like what's your vibe right now?
Top five fave songs and bands are.
You single, currently, what's your favorite book? What's in your fridge right now? Like super nothing messages that were really fun to do, and it kind of felt reminiscent of that early pandemic time when everyone just wanted to stay connected but really didn't have anything to say.
Ten out of ten, we'll do it again.
This is very jobless behavior.
What are you talking about?
If we're filtering out the mean things, why can't we just use Instagram's integrated question feature? Why are were going to go into a third party site that's probably mining all of your data to put it back on the original data mining app Instagram to ask you Monday in questions like what book are you reading? I feel like it's role playing. It's for quote unquote non content creators to roleplay influencer for a day, and I think that's why people are enjoying it. It's this ironic way to
be like, hey, what about me? Ask me things? I too want to be given an opportunity to share these things about myself with context, because to do it without context would be way too cringey.
Right, Wow, what an incredible summation you've just made.
That's exactly what it is. Yeah, So you because if you're taking out the reason why these ask FM tumbler question things were juicy is because they were anonymous and salacious. You really were getting to the crux of you know why you like this? Does your friend like that person? Do you like You're asking people things that are controversial enough that you should have to do it anonymously. Why do I need to go to a separate site to
anonymous anonymously ask you what book you're reading? Alas, no shade, just an observation.
There you go in jail links. It's out, it's on the outlist.
I like hearing about these things. Bring out some new apps. I'm ready for a new social networking app.
This is flex and frooms on Kita.
Listen to this. Nearly two hundred thousand people that's a lot, have filed for divorce across Australia in the past two years, and that is the highest number in more than a decade. We can make some assumptions that relationships are coming to the stress of lockdown. I would assume correlation, not causation. Who cares but COVID causes divorces or something. So wait, let me get this straight. There's twenty five million people in Australia. Would you say, give will take?
I feel like when I learned the fact of how many Australians they were, I was seven and that was twenty years ago.
I'll check people in Australia.
And two hundred thousand of them that are at the age that can get married. That's a substantial amount. That'd be like one in five. WHOA you just where's his maths coming from? The point is two hundred thousand people isn't a huge amount. But if that's the highest it's been in the last decade since COVID, it's.
A big deal. Love is not in the air. You know what I figure.
If ten years ago it was higher, it's the higher since then. The GFC was back in two thousand and eight.
He could be onto something.
So yeah, I guess big life things are difficult.
Love is too hard to maintain. When life gets hard, gotta let one thing go. Some say your comfort, your luxuries. No, let go of your part. I'll still be buying the lipsticks. But the man can go deadweight anyway.
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