Flex and Frooms, Flex and Fromes.
This is the Flex and Frooms catch Up podcast.
Oh my god, throwing my hand in front of my face. It's Flexi's birthday. Are you whispering?
Yeah?
That was a bit soft, wasn't it.
What's going on?
I think I can need to go twillli.
No, I'm saying no. Brookie's motioning no, pulling.
The energy down towards my pelvis.
No, but you can overcome.
And I'm hungry's standing out?
What do you want to eat? Chocolate? I need to it out of the blue, you know what I mean? It's fifty minutes away from here, though, Can I do that for a burger?
Look? What I feel like eating right now is a Cabri regular chocolate bar. The block of the circles the block. But yeah, that's what I feel like. I don't feel like a Bueno or anything, so I don't want anything too like rich. I just like the classic taste of the Cabri.
What's for dinner?
Well, I've actually been having met Donald's once a week, which.
Has been so I have been eating.
Yeah, I think I'll get that all my way home. Large double cheesebgg and meal with a diet lemonade and a sweetened our sauce. It's so good, like I just love it. That's like I'm living my life. I'm an adult. I can get me Johns whenever I want, so I'm gonna get it.
I want McDonald's to change their menu. It's so played out like we've had our entire lives. You can't switch it up. You can't switch it up. And is this really the best we can do? Because realistically, I don't want to start any into junk food beef. But when Hungry Jacks popped their bussy and made the Mega Mac, I said, this is better than the Big Mac and macas should be scared. I haven't had it. It was a limited edition item. They called it. What do they
call it? No, they called it a Big Jack and a Mega Jack. So the Big Jack was literally the best fast food burg I've ever had because it tasted like you know, it flame grilled. It tasted real. I said, McDonald's need to be scared, and they were. They sewed them, Yeah, so they should. Anyway, here's a putty. This is flex and free on Keida. Apparently, allegedly, possibly, there is a scientific reason why the talking stage is so draining for women seeking heterosexual relationships. Listen to this.
I've seen a bunch of tiktoks lately about like the talking stage, about how to manage and interpret and analyze men's emotional cues when you're in the talking stage, and it's all got me thinking about this concept of not emotional labor, but of hermaenutic labor, which I learned about first on this like very good podcast episode, and then I followed up and read this like very accessible paper about the concept by one of the podcasts hosts to
the philosopher. So the paper argues that men and women in like heterosexual relationships aren't necessarily doing different amounts of emotional labor, taking like for granted that emotional labor isn't only something that can happen in the context of like waged work. But what women do have to do the
bulk of is this thing called hermaudic labor. Hermautics is the process and the discipline of interpreting texts, and so in a romantic context, it's women who are doing the bulk of interpretive cognitive work on the relationship, like, whereas emotional labor is sort of affective emotional work. Hermeneutic labor is intellectual cognitive work, and women doing this job. Unfortunately, it works out very badly for them and creates a lot of extra work for them, but it works out
amazing for the men in their lives. I'm going to read this to you. I know the prince is tiny, and I'm sorry, but when women do this, men gain tidally packaged interpretations of their own feelings, desires, intentions, and motivations and those of women partners, as well as the delivery of these interpretations and carefully chosen conversations and the keeping of them to oneself when women partners think that sharing them might add to men's burdens. So women are
just doing this interpretation and explaining it. They're also deciding when it's not worth talking about and when it's a good idea to talk about it. In short, women serve both as informal therapists for men and as informal couples therapists for the relationship. All of these videos that I'm seeing about how to make sense of what you're picking up on in the talking stage are prime examples of this type of hermeneutic labor.
In them, you see these.
Like interpretive frameworks taking shape with women interpreting and analyzing what men are saying. Is if those men and the words and the text that they offer are like the Bible or like like Finnegan's Week or something. This is hard work.
This is intellectual work.
And when women do it, they are to use a quote from the paper acting as relationship maintenance experts.
Wow, that's interesting. One, that's intellectual. That's an intellectual moment.
Isn't that something? I feel as though what we are misinterpreting as emotional labor is that like hermonetic curmen utic labor, This idea of interpreting and reinterpreting messages but also phrasing your messages in a way where the person does not have to do that labor. And so often these men are the beneficiaries of the effort that you've already done. You've already assessed. Is this a good thing to send? Is it not a good thing to send? What's the
best way to get this message across? What's the best time? Is it gonna work out well for them? I know they were busy at work. Maybe now it's not good And later on they have their friends' birthdays, maybe I won't to send it later, and you've done all this stuff, you've repackaged it in a perfect way, and often you're getting the sum of like a flippant text like oh just send it, it's come through, or I won't take the time to express fully what I'm trying to say.
I'm hoping you'll read between the lines, whatever, whatever, whatever. And this is why it's really tricky to end up in like a text situationship where the bulk of the interaction you're having is through text, and then you start to measure the quality or the validity of your relationship through the text messages sent and exchange, as opposed to being like the quickest way to know if it's going
to work. So we get out of the text messages and we interact in person, and also so you get more contact with the way people are, not the way they tell you they're gonna be, because it's something about being in the physical space. Obviously you can do your charming, charming whatever, but the mask has to fall. And also you have very few opportunities to be like, oh that's what I thought it was. No like you caught the body language or lack thereof, you caught the vible lack thereof.
But in text you're like, if he says, how's your weekend, you're hearing how's your weekend? And he's like, yeah, how's your weekend? And you're like, oh, okay, what's going on?
This is South Black episode that I watched recently about Chad GBT, and it still make South Park babes every we spoke about they create them weekly about the week the world. Yeah, that's since two thousand or ninety seven, like no days, three years, and it's always he always hits.
So is it funny?
It's fucking funny.
Do you think it's my kind of funny? They're probably not, because I'm observed. Yeah, I just know it is.
It is funny. It is funny, it's not it's not true on this one. Well, it's crass obviously, but it's clever social commentary.
I just get your cliff notes. Okay, So what do they say in this one?
It's about chat GBT and Stan is texting Wendy, his girlfriend, and like his butters has put him onto it because like Wendy's always messaging him and he can't be fucked, so he like writes messages.
Not all the first names that flex is like who yeah, Processing, I'm like, okay, Butters. Butter's Wendy Wendy.
So he's getting chat GBT to like send all these beautiful messages and she's like in heaven. She's like dancing with her friends, like he's measuring me, and then she ends up like getting in trouble because she's got chat GBT. Everyone, like Cartman, everyone in the school's using chat GBT to like write these amazing essays about wars and stuff. And they're in fourth grade.
They're in fourth grade. It's just they're children.
They're in fourth grade. It's the best show on it. It's it's the smartest show I've ever watched.
Put it that way, WHOA. That reminds me and I don't know if we've talked about it before. I meant to tell you about it. But there's this dating app or not this dating app even it's an app that helps you build relationships. And essentially what you do is you can either text someone through the app or copy and paste data from your messages or your message thread into this app, and it'll generate three different responses based on your intention. So if you want a flirty one
or a happy one or a chill one. You put in a bit of the message thread and it'll use AI to create a response for you. And obviously the conversation is that ethical because you're not having the relationship with someone, the AI is building the relationship. Shout out to my robot boyfriend. But also I think that what would make dating easier is if we were acting like people, not ideal partners.
Yeah.
So when you're in that initial talking stage, you're putting on a performance. And sometimes I think people don't necessarily know. They think they're being extremely genuine because they've learned how to do dating. So like I say this, and you say this. If you don't ask me a question, I think that's rude. And you don't say an emojis, that's not nice. If you don't ask me out within the next three days, it's not good or whatever it might be. And then you start to think, hmm, how do I
talk to people I know and like very well? Might not talk to them at all often, you know, Like I would say through me, like how often do we speak? Some weeks a lot, some weeks not at all. But I don't measure the validity of our relationship based on that, I say, well, when we hang out, we're like get here, and we make sure we keep each other updated, and we're also participating in each other's lives. I'm like, I need your help with this. Do you have any advice?
You do the same. We're building. But then when we move into these talking stage dynamics, I'm doing performance art of like personal girl who doesn't mind if you text, and who is also keeping my calendar open just in case you want to hang out, but we'll not express It's just like it's too tiring. It's too tiring if you've.
Just met someone and you're trying to clear space in the cow.
And if you ever think about canceling on a friend because it's the only day they're free, don't do it. Never. But also, you can't trust everything. I like, I remember one of the measures I would use to be like this thing is a thing, is he would cancel stuff for me. I'd be like, oh my goodness, he would cancel on whatever. And I'd be like, that's so crazy, Like he didn't go to so and so for me
doesn't mean anything. Babe, just means that they're not great with resolve just means that one day you'll be the thing they cancel on for the next exciting thing that's popping up.
Watch your back, Watch your back, babe.
Let's remember this the next time we're trying to do some uh mental gymnastic mental gymnastics. Ruin his day, I did it the other day. It felt really good.
Ruin his day.
I recommend it.
Lost your fair froo meno, boommmy, let smile.
You're listening to flex and Rooms on kata.
Welcome back to flex and frooms.
Now. I don't know where you are in the world.
Perhaps you are somewhere in an uber, and if you are, I want you to turn this all the way up, miss or missus person driving the uber, please, this is attention. Please, like you're in a tunnel, turn this all the way up. Okay, make it awkward for the person in the back. Tell them if they're ing AirPods, take him out, sis, because you're gonna want to hear this. I believe that there
are two people in the world. Number one people who take an uber with their betrothed yep and kiss, and those who take an uber with their betrothed and stay firmly in their seats, no PDA, no PDA. Which camp do you land in? Flex?
I want to know you first. When I first.
Started kissing boys, this is around the time when taxis were a thing. Uber had not yet Australia, okay, And I have a distinct memory of driving all the way home thirty kilometers from the Melbourne.
CBD to a undisclosed, dashed suburb.
I remember him kissing me and he was a talk king and his dress shoe which was like one of them laced up shoes. You've got a nightclub's here, pet leather? Yeah, I think I saw snapper okay, soft namber. Moment was like hitting the vent and like possibly breaking it. The taxi diver was getting so pissed off.
And then fast.
Forward to now, as a mature woman sex in the city style, A man goes to kiss me in the back of a Nuba, Like, no, there's another full human being in the front. He's not getting paid a tip for this. We're not gonna have show and Telsea. Literally I'm like, he's in the front effing seat and we're in the back kissing all over each other, obviously going somewhere. Yuck, put it away and stop and wait until we're out of the car. Oh, sickening?
Should we finding a downway way teller for her weekend? So I was in the backs even but with the man I was, and he wanted to kiss me said no, you can't kiss me. Okay, we get it. You eligible sis. People want to taste I will say, I agree. Kissing in the back seat was very taxi behavior. It happened far too many times because there was the illusion of anonymity, like you don't know my name, you don't know where I'm going, you don't have my information. I'm just in.
You're an NPC, I'm an NPC. We're converging briefly to never meet each other again. I don't know about you. But the few times I catch you, but now I get the same drivers often ites like oh, I dropped out to the airport last time. Where are you going? I'm like, again, how is this possible? So not only that you run the risk of them seeing you, but they have your information, they know where you're going, and we're encouraged to bridge the gap where no longer just
strangers in the car. You are the task master taking me to my next quest. I shall acknowledge you as a person. Yeh, have some decorum please. I think it's also an age thing, you age out of those antics, because I do recall the kissing in the taxi was because you weren't going to a destination where the kissing was going to continue. You were going home and they were going home, so you have to get it in the taxi. Now you have a place to lay pipe.
You sick in me every time kits flex and frooms, Flex and frooms.
When do you stop gift giving as a family. That's the question we're answering today on flex and frooms. I don't know how we came to this, but I think I mentioned that my family and I don't really give gifts, and that I distinctly remember it stopping when I turned eighteen nineteen and when I moved out of home. I'm the youngest sibling, so I assume that all those kind of really traditional traditions were kept because of me, not because anybody wanted to participate. And when I opted out,
everybody stopped opting out. Now, if we're pretty sure we were talking about this because you had just had your birthday, not well, today's my birthday, so but when it was your birthday. You forgetting Happy birthday, lil relax when don't dox me. It's not the government name. Please you discuss receiving gifts from your parents. Is that still happening at your ripe old haggard age.
Yes, she's barren and yet the gifts continue. How is that possible? I don't know, Like how is it in the budget?
Yeah? I don't know. I feel a bit bad. Not that bad. You just developed empathy.
The mortgage can wait for them, your retirement put it on hold. I need this silver choker which I'm getting for my birthday, little silver heart on a black string. We're from a random jury shop in Chapel Street.
Not the jury shop. It's meitty you literally why because is it just a tradition that's never stopped or it? Would you feel bad if they were like we don't have it this year? Like I would be really upset.
And also I live into state, so my parents are like, we pay for a lot of stuff for your sister.
So when they pay for your sister, I don't give me. Give me an example like paint for insurance? Nah, a registration.
Maybe meals like she'll go over to their house visits and then I'm not part of the dinner, so I got to make my own vodka pasta.
Can we get a third party to wag in Brookie? Does your family do gifts?
Yeah?
I get three hundred for Birthday and Christmas and.
Cash or the value of a gift.
The value so I could choose what I want to do with. Okay, So a lot of the time I'll say, hey, can I get this, this and this? But yeah, I also don't pay for my car stuff either. Oh, it's giving, You're on the family plan. Still, it's giving dependent gal literally.
Fun, don't give that up.
I don't.
Don't you for being honest about it?
You know I are.
We still struggling with that for me, still trying to play. I'm just like the rest of you, right, I'd be very upset if Mamy and Daddy didn't get me a kiss the CI in that cafe lost song. Okay DJ every Friday in primary school, I understand.
Don't you're listening to Flex and Frooms, I'm Kaita.
Today we're discussing friendship and jealousy. What do you do if a friend reveals to you that they're jealous of you? Don't answer that listen to this first.
If you had a friend who confessed to you that she didn't have the capacity to be happy for you, and that even though she loved you, being around you was painful and she was jealous of what you had, would you keep her around because you were impressed by her honesty? Would you recognize that a snake that you aid will always still bite you in the hand.
Let her go.
There's a way to reward honestly, yes, But there's a way to accept someone being honest and realizing how there's absolutely nothing you can do to change that person, no matter how much you love them. Now that I know this, would this fulfill me to maintain this relationship moving forward?
And everyone that you show up for as a friend is not your friend.
Ooh, this is just drag me. When we talk.
About envy and we talk about jealousy, nine times out of ten, the older we get, the less material it is.
I know we think it's.
Material, it is soldier we get the more the envy and the jealousy is around the way people love you, the way spirits celebrate you, the way people choose to show up for you, worthy of it or not. If people are enveloping you in love and support constantly. That is enough for somebody on the outside to be jealous of that.
That was an exact in the podcast See the Thing Is, And that was a word because initially I was of the belief that like, oh, you know, there is something to reward when someone's honest with you about a really embarrassing or revealing secret. It's like, damn, that's a big of you to say thank you for sharing. You have to exit my life immediately because that energy, you know, like it's one thing to have, like your anxiety come up, or your anxiety and you're like, oh, nobody likes me
or what or I felt a weird vibe? Or is that person envious for them to reveal you can't be trusted you really think, well, not that you can't be trusted, but also it's just it makes me question the validity of our dynamic now because if you can't see passed, because I often think envy and jealousy is usually based on the illusion of how something looks like. I'm jealous of what your job looks like. I'm jealous of how I feel like I see people respond to you. You know,
it's it's like the superficiality of it all. And sometimes if you can't separate yourself from the reality of what it is to be like it's just them, Like, it's not even about you. I don't know how you're gonna work on bypassing how you feel to be a good friend. And I don't need friend who aren't good friends. What's that like? Just be an acquaintance. I disagree, be a stranger.
I think it shows that you really want to work through these feelings. I'm someone who's very honest about this stuff, and there's nothing wrong with being honest and being like I'm jealous of I'm finding it really hard. And then they can open up and be like, oh, it's not even that great.
See but look at that, look at that serious events. I can tell them this thing so they can validate my insecurity. Nah, that's not helpful. I think it is for you, not for them. And like we're talking, I'm someone like I don't feel very envious of people, and I've experience people who are envious of me, and it's a weird burden to shoulder because like, what I'm living has nothing to do with you. But you've never been jealous of someone not in the way that I feel.
I'm a very self interested person. I care a lot about myself and what I think and how I feel. And the pipeline from that person has the thing I want, I'm like, why I need to forget it? So now we both have it.
Damn you're a bit different.
Yeah, So when someone's like, I'm really jealous of you, I'm thinking, like, don't bring me down with you, baby, sort it out. Let me know how you go, because, like I can understand, for a lot of people, experiencing envy and experiencing jealousy is debilitating. It's not this like amplifying propelling activity. It can get you down. Now you're in the dumps and your company. I can't be in there with you. Yeah, I'm not doing that, No, but I don't think it's a soft ghost. It's definitely not
like a we're not friends anything. That's a horrible way to go say that. But then you are the envious person in the dynamic, babe. So like from your end, you're like, I just feel like people should help me, and it's like, yeah, but like not every not every person is like your full responsibility. And in that issue, I'm like props for sharing, But you gotta figure that out because like, it's not even about me at that point,
it's literally about you. So to now make it a joint activity, a group adventure, I'm taking on too much. Some people gotta like gotta shoulder the responsibility of their own burdens on their own.
Seek some free therapy.
Okay, seek help.
Jeez, it's a few Reddit threads for this said.
Seek help. You've been listening to The Flex and Froom's daily podcast.
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