Flex and Frooms Flex and Firms. This is the Flex and Frooms catch up podcast Flexing Frooms.
On CATA last week and maybe even the week before, I talked about not taking the bait and recognizing when you are being the victim of chaos marketing and outrage marketing and sometimes you should just scroll away. But I saw maybe thirteen seconds of a bro podcast and no shade, we love them, obsessed with a bro podcast, a bro radio show, obsessed with the patriarchy.
You ate, come on, come through.
But what I thought I was hearing was a man trying to make a compelling case for why we should normalize cheating. And I want you to hear it through me.
If infidelity is something that happens so often, it happens, and I would say probably at least half of the relationships in people's lives at least at one point in time, So if we were able to accept it as a norm, and it would have less shame attached to it, less Hey, it's about me being like, I don't know why women be like.
Can I are you speaking about? Are you speaking to people? Oh?
He said what he selded for the best, And maybe that's why I only heard thirteen seconds of it, and so I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I will. What I imagine he's saying is that because cheating happens so often, we should stop regarding it as something that's in the realm of impossibility, and the more we expect for it to happen and normalize it, we can take the shame out of it, and therefore it doesn't become a symbol of a bad relationship.
Hmmm hmmm.
I will say, had he have articulated himself better, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. But I think I've added the nuance that was not there, and so for his argument, you did not eat. But I can understand what he's saying. For example, right, how does something move from niche to mainstream. A bunch of people do it, support it, normalize it, and suddenly you have the breadth and depth to just make it a regular thing like women in the workforce.
Oh, not necessarily against it?
Would I vote for it? Again?
No? I really know. Am I on the front line? Unfortunately?
Yeah? Are we the suffragettes? I've had enough?
Okay, So I understand the idea of are we only causing it ourselves more pain by viewing this commonplace thing as such a negative.
Why don't we do better? Ester Parrell? Oh have you heard of her?
I have?
Esta Parrell, leading psychotherapist author podcaster has a really, really progressive take on infidelity and says it should be an opportunity to start and accelerate a relationship as opposed to it being the end. And also one of the biggest points she makes that cheating is rarely about the partner. It's a self interested and selfish act generally, and you you do yourself a disservice trying to internalize it. She has this book called State of Affairs which talks a
lot about that. So what I've done is I've gone to good Reads, as I like to do, to pull out some quotes and.
Read some savage reviews. We will feeling bad about yourself.
But I want to read you maybe four or five quotes so you get like a pretty varied view of what she thinks or how she thinks about infidelity, and then we can talk about whether or not we can make a case for getting cheated on next year.
Love it.
This year it's not a good time for me.
I need to put some runs on the board.
Yeah a few months with ye man.
Yeah, Ess says, we expect one person to give us what once an entire village used to provide, and we live twice as long. There's something there. There's something there because realistically, I feel like we've had conversations before about having friends for certain things, but people have said it's quite transactionally, be like that's my party friend, that's my work friend, that's my school friend. But realistically it helps you assess how much you can expect from them and
how much willing to give to them. This idea of us living even three times as long as we used to, that's a lot of pressure to put on one person to show up and evolve at the same pace. You're evolving in the same way. You're evolving for the same common goal. I don't want to do that anyway. Here's another one. Our partners do not belong to us debdable. They are only on loan with an option to renew or not. Didn't I say this friendship expiry dates? No, not want to expiry dates.
Reviews.
Knowing that we can lose them does not have to undermine commitment. Rather, it mandates an active engagement that long term couples often lose. The realization that our loved ones are forever elusive should jolt us out of complacency in
the most positive sense. So what she's kind of saying is, if you truly recognize that your partner is not yours to keep forever, and that you do need to in some ways entice them to stay with you, it should excite you to keep them nearby, as opposed to developing these really repelling behaviors and then getting confused a cheat.
Oh come on a broad podcast. I feel like I'm on the side. Okay.
Another one, the shift from shame to guilt is crucial. Shame is a state of self absorption, while guilt is an emphatic relational response inspired by the hurt you've caused.
Another imagine someone hurting your feeling. You're like, let's move that from shame to you.
Let's move that because if you really think about it, Let's say I've offended you, right, I've said something out of pocket, and all I'm doing is like being really self interesting, like I'm so, I feel so embarrassed I did that to you.
Be guilty, and what be guilty and own up to it. Yeah, how do you get out of guilt?
I feel like for this purpose you want to stay in there.
If you've cheated what, I don't know.
Can we just keep doing it?
I just don't know how much capacity do you really have to forgive? Because I think I'm a forget not forgive. Oh really, I'm gonna let it go. I'm not going to bring it up. I think I'm the opposite.
I'm going to hold onto what.
In my horror, I have this purge sensation I have to forgive. I can't forget unless I forgive. Like, to me, they're both together. I can't just like let something slide and forget about it. But then again, I've not been in a situation where I've been cheated on or vice versa.
I haven't.
But I think this is where my avoidant tendencies come out, because what I do I like to self soothe and make myself feel better by any means necessary. So often having to wait for someone to feel like repentant or shameful keeps me in this space where I prefer to be in denial about being hurt.
True, that's very you. Thank you and good on you for realizing hun thank you.
I love good reads? Do we love good reads?
Do you have good reviews on your book?
Yeah?
Monogamy used to mean one.
Person a success experiment by Lilian An What a name, what a woman.
We should bring that back. Lillian A.
Hen Can, best selling author, podcaster, business woman.
Pre episode plug is something fresh. We've not done that before. It's no, it's mid episode. It's like a it's like a mad read.
You've actually sponsored the show post PREMI Donner.
She's wearing the whole kid. We got to keep it. That's circular economy.
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