The Flex and Rooms Daily Podcast brought Ah, that is the sound of me unwinding. We're sitting on these chairs and my ass is so fucking numb stiff. Queen's me too, literally my bum it's like her to feel the bones hitting the like. What's it called? Is this a ball chade chair? Boukley? Bou clay? Is how you pronounce it? Yeah, I don't know if I'm into bookclay chairs kind of remumd me of like a tweed jacket, yeah, mix with the sheep. Okay, that's got matted hair anyway.
Talking about how you avoid the therapist zone and a friendship, it starts off being really flattering.
And validating and exciting.
Because how can you amazing person need my advice in this really unique situation, And eventually you find that whenever they call you it's to vent and tarant and when to the lasting we had a conversation about something fun or even about you and what you're going through, and then before you know it, you've in a weird place because to say that you don't want to help out anymore seems incredibly self and then to ask for, you know, to be seen or to be heard seems incredibly weird
and needy, and they probably just end up like distancing yourself from your friend and that's not fun at all. So we'll not discussed our experiences of being the therapist and the friend who is in need of a therapist, and then our solutions to get out of that zone.
And I do want to make sure flex that we don't become the what's it called the therapist? You know, we get hand calling in and saying, my boyfriend did a big chin, took a photo and send it to me. Do we really want to be helping out those kind of heathens.
That's why I keep it light and facetious. Now, there was a time in the intent I took it really seriously and before you know, I'm giving away three hours of my night helping some random person some random issue that I don't care about really in my heart of hearts. But I feel like I've got a responsibility to not do it anymore. Yeah, everything's a life.
Keep the dms. Unless it's a meme, I'm just gonna double tap the meme. Yeah, anything knowledge, Nah, But I honestly do send us some content to talk about.
Before we jump into the episode. Someone sent me a message, and they were like, oh, it was broadly about like I have a friend and like they've done something that could be perceived as racist, but I don't know, and I really want you and Frooms to talk about it. And I was like, I don't talk to non black people about race anymore. But ask Rooms. Did they ask you?
Yes?
Did you reply?
Will you double taptom? I read it?
No, I read it.
I read it, I read it acknowledged. But it's not my business right now. I got to get out of jail free card. Not interested at the minute. There'll be a time. But yeah, I can definitely come from her point of view, but I'm not sure if I want to embroil myself on that.
Yeah, and on me, I'm like, I'm not everyone's I can't be the internet's token black friend. I'm so sorry. I like, it cannot extend to you. Figure it out. Also, get in the trenches a little bit, make a few blunders, you know, try something out, see how it lands, and then, if you know, learn from your mistakes.
I'm definitely in that camp.
Anyway, let's get into it, flex and I have some information for you that's going to change your life. And I found this because I was on korra. Have you used core? Obsessed with quor you post questions to the broader community and they answer it for you. And this particular was what's one thing you could learn today that could change your life positively instantly? And this was in the thread all the way down in the dregs, and it was how to get people to do stuff for you?
Which I thought you'd just ask, but apparently that's not. That doesn't work very often. I can't relate. But here are three tips, and I want you to tell me if these would work on you. The first thing to do is to nod as you ask. Our brains of what are called mirror neutrons, which activate to make us mimic other people's actions. Sometimes they will also start to nod, which then makes them then agree with you. This person
learned the mirror neurons part in cych class. Then the nodding part worked when they've worked in sales.
It's legit. So how would you do that without it?
Sounds so I'd be like, I'm really thirsty, do you want to get some drinks later?
On? Not?
No, no, not not not not not not very Now you're nodding yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. This is the next one. If you have a big favor to ask someone, start by asking smaller ones ahead of time. This will take some planning, and if you're like me, I'm only recently learning how to ask people for stuff, don't know it for the last two years. It's very painful, but I'm getting used to it. This is called the foot in
the door phenomenon. If you ask for small things then work up to big things, people are more likely to say yes than if you start off with a huge favor. So like, can you like pass me that iPad?
Do that?
Do you want to go? I mean it kind of works out right because you create this mutual space of rapport where it's like, oh, we were friends, we do stuff for each other, like oh, do you have flip bombki?
I borrow it?
Yeah, of course, thank you.
You're more primed for the bigger question.
And priming is a real thing as well. Do you know about priming? And the third thing is if you're asking for a small favor but still know that they'll probably say no, start by asking for a huge favor. Then when they say no, ask for the smaller one. They're more likely to say.
Yes, yes, classic sales technique and classic negotiation technique. Is it really?
Yeah?
You, when you're like negotiating with somebody, you ask for the most amount of money. Oh, yes, so you know that's gonna give you. Classic For example, I'm about to buy a chair.
You're gonna buy the chair.
I'm gonna buy the chair for me.
Told me about this chair that she's been eyeing off four years and years, five years and five years. And it's this blue velvet chair with blue fringing hanging off it. I won't say hanging. It's like drape delicately, delicately and beautifully. It's really ornate and lovely, and it's very expensive.
Very extensive. I go into the shop, I said, I'll give you X amount of money, and he said, I'll give it to you for this less amount of money. And then I think, shit, should have I asked for even less. And that's the negotiation trick. Always asked for the bare minimum. They might laugh at you, but just cop the shame that you feel. It works for most flex and frooms. I'm just gonna cut straight to the chase. I want a chihuahua.
Yeah, and one one's so literally no, we can't change our lifestyles.
Though, right, because something that I don't realize when I look at the chua wars online is that they pooh, they eat, they do, and they need to go outside for walks and they have to be trained.
Yeah, if you get an old one, you'd hope that the last person's on that a number on them, but you can never know.
They can be misleading the ad So I started putting chuahas on my Instagram story, trying to manifest them, making clear that I want them, trying to get people to send in like where to find dogs. I put it on my story saying I really want a Chuaba. There's this girl in Melbourne called Spy Spicy Taco Bell on TikTok. She's really cool and she has this chiuaha called Fletcher.
I'm absolutely obsessed. He looks like the perfect dog. And so I put on my story guys, I really want to Fletcher, and this man dms me saying dogs, you need to adopt a dog. Dogs are not a fashion statement, to which I said nothing because what am I going to reply to that? But then I wrote my story. You know, Fletcher was actually adopted. So the dog Spice tager Bell has Fletcher. He was found on gum tree
and something that I think people should know. Also, you shouldn't have to adopt a dog because the minute the dogs are born, someone's gonna buy them. That's essentially adopting it for a high fee, you know. Yeah, I don't want to be dog shamed. No, you can get dogs on gum tree. I'm sussed on that, but yeah, but if you want to get a reputable dog, you can
get a dog from dogs online. That's with a Z dot com dot a U. They have puppies, they have dogs for adoption and more mature dogs and they're all vet like what's it called. They got the chick of approval. Great, yeah, like there approved reputable Will you get one for sure? I'm still looking so as everyone knows, I'm going to Europe in September. After that I will look into it further to.
Like scale of one to ten, ten being I'm definitely getting a dog.
Five. Yeah, so sad. This is flex and frooms on cater.
Most of I could say most have aspirations or fantasies of moving away to a new city, a far away land and starting off fresh. Would you take ten k to move somewhere else. Before you answer that, listen to this.
So we all know that the pandemic broadly caused like this remote work exodus, where a bunch of people recognize that living in a major city had less appeal where you couldn't leave the house and do stuff, and because a lot of work was being done online, it meant that you could do it from anywhere really, so it was out of the major cities and into regional or remote areas for like a change of pace, the change of scenery. And I've thought about it. Do you think about it?
No?
Oh yeah, I fully thought about it, brought a house in Hobart, and then when lockdown ended, I was like, I'm not ready to go. No, no, I don't think I can't handle the pressure. I can't go right now. So it happened. But in America in particular, there are these online marketplaces now offering incentive programs to lure remote workers into their cities. In particular, there's this website called make My Move. So basically what it does is any kind of state, Let's say tulsa major city for example,
is that Oklahoma? For example, it was only of the major cities that had issues of people leaving in favor of going to quieter places for a quieter and less expensive life. Now they started offering cash incentives of ten thousand dollars to anybody who would move there and start doing remote work there. Stimately the economy get people buying coffees and croissant at local bakeries, you know, to avoid
the city looking looking like a ghost town. And they also said that they had since twenty nineteen, in particular, they've managed to get eighteen hundred people to move to the city. And that's less than five percent of all the applicants. So this is not like a really rare thing. I mean rare in contrast with the population size, but
enough people like this incentive is pretty good. Now. As for me, ten k to move to a whole new city, I don't want to cover the movie and you get there same stuff now just in a foreign place.
That can be exciting if you're a bit stuck, you know, shake up your kids' lives, get them out of primary school, because that's always good.
Ten K to move the whole family, get out of here. How much would you take to move somewhere else in Sydney that's not Melbourne because I know you want to.
Go back, but somewhere else, like in New South Wales. No, No, in.
Australia, how much money would it take minimum. Someone's like, here's a free twenty k move to Brisbane.
I don't think it'd be Brisbane. No, No, probably like Byron twenty k yeah tomorrow. No, I wouldn't know. I think like the money, as you said, it's barely going to cover the costs.
Yeah, it's not going to scratch the sides, that's for sure.
If you really want to move somewhere, you're going to move there because you want to go there. I don't think you can take a money incentive because as we know, the money goes away straight away, even if you don't use it on real location costs. And I'm sus anyone that's offering money. It's like people who would say when you're in primary school, I'll buy you like a Teddy bear if you come and hang out with me on Saturday. I was robbed like once I was friend for hire.
Literally, I would definitely bribe my friends, like, oh my god, come to the library after school. I we need to study.
I'll get you macas. Yes, us people should just want to hang.
So it's not hanging though.
We needed to study.
But on that point, I don't know if you recall, but a couple of years ago there was a bunch of press about a city in Italy offering one dollar houses, so you could buy a house in Italy for a dollar, and there was this big thing. I was like, I'm gonna be a minute's an amazing But the catch was that you had to commit to spending a minimum amount on renovations to restore the property. And these were not decrepit in any way, but just not livable as they stood.
You couldn't just go in chuck in a suitcase a few bedding things.
No, no, no, no.
It definitely needed to be like, you know, toe up from the flower. I don't think enough people did it, but I liked the idea of it. I think it was like a dollar for the actual house than fifteen k minimum in renovations. But also so not in the city, in regional areas where if you don't speak the language and you're not used to a lifestyle, it'd be a downgrade.
Things you don't consider when you're seeing that Tuscany lifestyle. One hundred percent, this is flex and froomes on CATA.
It's not often we talk about friendships or friendship advice, and we should because that is the most juicy advice to give and to take. Listen to this. I found it on the subreddit friendship advice. They say, how do you avoid the therapist zone in a friendship? Which is a big question that needs a big answer. They say, I see it all starts when you let yourself be
someone's crying shoulder. They begin to see you almost like a charger to refill their battery or a hype man who helps maintain their confidence.
What is the solution, though?
Do you consistently redirect the conversation to yourself so things don't become one sided, Throw in sarcastic remarks to prevent coming off too emotionally supportive, limit personal conversations in general, any tips and experiences would be appreciated, first of all through me. What would you say is the therapist's zone?
So the therapist zone. I've been on both ends. I think most people have. I definitely relate to the whole getting your whole confidence or like hyping from one person. It's a really attractive thing to do, especially when you're anxious or need a lot of positive affirmation, especially if you've got a friend who you think is cool or really smart, it's really tempting to go to them for reassurance.
And so would you say the therapist's zone is what happens in any friendship that you show that you care or is it definitely a place where you like everybody has to be and eventually is it a friendship without the therapist zone?
Yeah, I think it definitely can be. I think certain people are more prone to being one and like talking a lot about themselves, so it becomes that dynamic. Like I think if you're someone who does it often, you'd probably do it with more than one person and therefore thrust them into the therapist's role when they're not equipped and can't actually be bothered with it. Yeah, for sure.
So the question is how does one get out of the therapist zone in a friendship? And I thought about this maybe for like two days now after reading this post on Reddit, because I think that one of the hardest things to do is give earnest advice when you don't know who's at the end, who's the recipient of it, Like if you were asking me earnestly about this. I would be there and I would sit there and think about it, be like, yeah, yeah, this is how you
do it. But for an internet person, I'm not really that thoughtful. So I decided I would be the first important thing. And it's the trickiest thing to do is you stop giving unsolicited advice because a therapist's friendy is always like yeah, babe, but like have you ever thought about doing this? Or here's what I would do, or
like why won't you try this? And like I read a really great thing and it's just you should do this, and like this is what happens when you get anxious and all of a sudden you set yourself up to be the archetype of caregiver. Before you've even committed to it. You just might be thinking of like, oh, let's wear abstract concepts and share ideas, and they're like, oh great, I can rely on this person to help me outside of what I'm feeling, to share new perspectives with me,
to be a safe place for me to land. This is all very exciting. I also don't recognize a lot of the time when I'm giving advice how high the stakes are for the other person. Because if someone's coming to you in their distressed state and saying like, hey, I really need not even I need help, but like I'm going through something and you're like, oh great, let me help you out. It feels really validating to be
the recipient of someone needing your help. Then I'm like, shit, like you needed my help and I provided it to you, which is fine, But we've created a new standard where it's like I'm someone you're trusting with your deepest, darkest wounds and stuff, and I was just doing chit chats.
Yeah, it's a lot of responsibility you can just necessarily sign up for.
Do you think you're more often the therapist or the friend who requires a therapist.
I'm probably more requiring a therapist. I've always been someone who needs reassurance, like from first from parents and then from friends. I'm growing out of it quite a bit, but I think especially because we work in the creative field, my whole thing is writing or making videos. Especially with writing, I find it very hard to put something out there without first getting someone to proofread it a for mistakes
and b for tone. I don't really do it anymore so, for example, like with my newsletter, I used to get send them to my two friends, Madison Analyza. They're both writers, and that was really helpful and fun because they often send me their work. But then if it's been a few months where they haven't shared any work, then I don't share work because they've been instances. For example, with Madison, I used to she was I'd fall on her a lot when I'm feeling not very confident, and we'd have
big chats. We don't really do that much anymore on a day to day level, but every month we'll have a catch up and a check in where we both say how we're feeling. And because we've known each other for a long time, the dynamic has been in place
since we were younger. But of course you go through periods where you're really lost and you're counting on people, and I think it's it takes a lot of self awareness to realize, oh this this is interesting for me, but it's probably not very interesting for them, you know. So I think any conversation about like energy vampires, for example, is helpful to recognize it within yourself.
For sure, what about you, I've definitely been more of the therapist friend, but I chalk it up to a few things like number one, I think that I was just late to like other life experiences than my other friends, but less embarrassed about that fact. So I feel as though I was always a very candid speaker, like speaking about what I'm feeling, home, thinking or whatever. And because my friends I was the youngest in my friend group,
well I still am. I felt like I was getting to things later, and so they would be like, I just did this cool new thing, Like what do you think was it really embarrassing? Was it cool? And they would tell me about it, and I'm like, well, I have no reference point, but I'll google and I'll research and I'll help you. This is so exciting, Like I'm
getting access into the real world. And it's little things like being the youngest of my friends to turn eighteen wachment, I was the youngest to club, youngest to drink, youngest to do whatever. But I was absorbing information that I was like, I don't have lived experience, but I have this conceptual experience, and this is exciting for me. That
was one thing. The second thing was like I hated this idea of asking for help, and I hated asking people who needed my help for help because I'm like, you can't help yourself, how can how are you to help me put your life? We're both useless in this instance. So then I became the friend that people would ask for help, and then I had to rely on the Internet to give me my help. So it's like that chain of command where it's like they were getting help from me, I was getting.
Help from them, and someone's gone on khor yeah.
And someone's got me or I read it. I'm like, have you googled that? I'll do it for you. But so the last two years I've been trying to learn how to ask for help or just lean on people, because I'm like, bitch, you are all responsible for me as I am for you, So I'm gonna start cashing in on that responsibility.
I don't think you've ever leaned on me.
Yeah, but I just don't need to yet. But if the time will come, I'll cash in because I'm also I have this thing and I learned it in therapy, this thing about value. I think that a lot of people aren't aware of the value they extract from a
space before they give to it. And I hate that because people just walk in, take, take, take and leave and I'm like, you've provided no humor, no vibes, like, no chit chat, no small talk, no story, no gifts, no food, no snacks, and then you just take it and go like that shit is so scary in the drinks fringe fringe it came out so before I'm like, before I lean on someone, I'm like, I just need to make sure that I've created an environment where like you've been allowed to lean on me as well, or
or I've opened myself up to that when I'm like, hey, teets some advice, it's solicited and fair and understanding. But yet therapistone is really tricky because I have some friends that stay in the therapist soone as a projection mechanic, Like they are so scared to be seen as flawed that they're presenting themselves as like I am always fine and over extending themselves, like you should know how to budget and you should do.
This, and like you seem really anxious, like have you done this before? Like you should definitely do this and have you read that book?
And all you know is like they're distracting you from them being as unstable as you are, but doing it in a way that it's like really self serving, like maybe we're all messy.
That's a that's deep and I fully get that.
Yeah, once you see it, you can't un see it. I think you can see it in certain people, though not everyone unless you know that. But I'm like, wait a second, I.
Get quite scared of people that don't project but also don't chow weakness. Yeah, whereas the people that you're talking about seem to project it in a way that's obvious.
Yeah, or in a way that kind of puts you in like this inferior position. If I'm telling you something like, oh, like I'm a pickI eater, Like I really don't know what I want to eat. It's so embarrassing. That is me creating, like making it normal.
Right.
But then that kind of friend will be like, oh, that's really sad, Like have you ever thought of this? And maybe you should do this. I'm like, wait a seconder, I know what I am want to change anyway, So yeah, how do you avoid the friendship zone? I mean, I don't think it's like avoiding the zone. I think it is about being specific about who you allow yourself to be that person for yes, let it be mutual or not.
At all, totally agree. We don't want vampires.
No, oh, and hold on, we don't want energy vampires.
That's it, not at all. You're listening to flex and Frooms on Kita. Let's see. I write a newsletter you sure do, usually weekly. It's on a website called Substack. The newsletter is called Frooms World. So if you just type in fruits old newsletter, you can enter the Fumi verse.
It's really great and I would recommend, especially if you don't read. I feel like it's a nice entry level. A couple hundred words, get into it, find out some cute recommendations, fact snacks, chats that you've.
Been featured on it.
I'm a fan many moods ago fan first, so second, professional third.
That's that's how we are. There is a newsletter on there called not Pretty not Rich. These newsletters I can't get substacked on substack. I can't get over substack. The people that write on substack any kind of niche you can figure out. Like specific newsletters on AI technology are the ones about children in school and how to make them more comfortable. I follow quite a few of them. Many aren't my interests, but I'm just trying to keep abreast of what everyone.
Else, so it's the best way to approach knowledge curation.
Thank you well. Not Pretty, Not Rich is written by a guy called Sam Becker. It started off as a money and finance newsletter, but he's broadened it broaden the scope to be business, entrepreneurialship investing. Sounds like this is you on toast. So this newsletter is called Corporations are
people my friend? So become one? And basically it's about how businesses say that we're family and we're like all this together, and with that in mind, employees are then made to feel like, oh, I'm like they're my dad, Like I'm gonna be nice to them. But then you got to think, oh, I'm a company too in that instance, because if we're if we're a family and you're a company, then I can be a company in the family too. Yes, And apparently a story in Business Insider was about how it's a good one.
Two.
Yeah, employees working for companies are outsourcing their workload. So let's say they're doing coding. It's cheaper for them to then go to a third party and say, hey, can you do this coding for me? They keep their wage take away, you know, thirty percent and they're doing shit all it's so genius.
But I'm not brave enough for that. Why Well, I think it's because I was definitely socialized in the environment of you know, like the world isn't going to be a fair place for you. You have to prove that, you prove your worth. If things go wrong, they'll double down harder on you, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So then I come into work and I'm like, no, I'll accept all the facilia. I'll do it all myself.
I'll stay in I'll come earlier, la la lah. The idea of somebody else potentially being responsible for what I'm doing and then doing it poorly freaks me out.
We don't want the reflection on someone we can't necessarily control.
Yeah, but this I feel like, for what is happening in a lot of corporate working environment, it feels like the most fair approach for the employee. I mean, if you're not getting raisors and a rising with the cost of inflation and the cost of living, if you're not feeling being treated fairly, if you're not being respected as an employee, you gotta take manners into your own hands.
So true. The other part of the story, he says that most people don't think of themselves as businesses. Yeah, when maybe you should because if you're a business, you can have certain tax right offs, you can keep yourself employed, you can have one like one client that you work with, get all your home expenses done, do X, y Z, have freedom. So it's something to consider as I don't know, I think that's a trap. Why because then you don't get holidays and stuff. No.
I just think most people don't understand the extent of what it takes to run a business. If they were to absorb the liabilities, the responsibilities, the costs of running a business, then I think they would be like, I'll just be an employee, like knowing that you know, if you're an employee in Australia, somebody else is paying your tax and your super. Can you afford to take out twenty percent of your earnings every week and put that away into your tax and super proactively? Probably not. You
wouldn't want to do that. And then you gotta lodge your bass and you know, charge GST. If you're making over seventy five k and you work in goods and services, like it all becomes too much even before you've had fun with it. You know, this is facts, but you know, not financial advice, advice just thought you what you want,
but fascinating. I love that. I always wonder what these articles would sound like if they're written by Australians from an Australian lens perspective, because yeah, I think broadly speaking, the way that we perceive corporations and the experience of an employee is like pretty universal. Yeah, but I think there are some differences cultural differences in Australia that would make this conversation a little different.
Compared to America eacually.
Yeah, to be discussed eventually, but bring more of that. I love that not pretty not rich, not pretty.
Not rich by a guy really interesting stuff he does, like roundups of links you should read as well, So I love that.
Yes, and also Firms World. By listening to Firm's price, real name, not government, I mean whatever, You've been listening to the Flex and Firms Daily podcast. For more, Tune in Decater on DAB or stream it on iHeartRadio.