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Today's episode is a cautionary tale, one that inspires us to love us and almost like recalibrate our brains. I'm talking about this podcast that I forgot I listened to months ago, came to me in a vision. Not sure what it's called, but I do remember that doctor Anna Lemke was a guest and not talking about the effects that dope mein or in particular overdosing and dope meine does to our brain, and interestingly that pain and pleasure exist on the same mental.
Seesaw, mental seesaw. Okay, let's get into it.
Let's go flex and fs.
It's been about ten years since we were in high school.
Yeah, facts maybe eleven eleven for me. Heavy Remember when.
You're in high school thinking, Wow, my ten year reunion, going to be married, my have a child.
I'll definitely I'm going to be married with a kid at twenty six.
That was the narrative going around.
And I went to an all girls high school, so you can only imagine how just like delusional we all were.
The shared delusions to scale.
What percentage of girls are married and have.
A kid, I'm not that involved. I think more more than I anticipated. Like I would say my main friend groups, so three of them, I would say, haf are married?
Far around couldn't. I can't even imagine it.
But it got me thinking about what actually was the most demonic high school experience.
What you're thinking about that?
You know what?
It was? Actually like a gratitude exercise, Like sometimes I feel really down about my life or no, I actually don't feel down.
I just feel really stressed.
And I'm like, my life has never been more stressful. Would you rather feel stressed or down? You sounded happy about being stressed.
I don't want either. Okay, they go hand in hand for me. I get too stressed. I'm freaking out. I'm getting down. But I had this memory, this moment of going back to high school and thinking, oh my god, I never have to do that again. And that is ask somebody to the formal.
You did that? Yeah?
Whoa, yeah, because at our school I went to a boy girls school, but the boys had a formal and the girls had a formal. So I was like, whoa, that feels like a waste of resources. Oh yeah, you're paying, You're paying top dollar. Went I went to a school which was kind of more like a multinational corporation.
Yeah, kind of vibes that's the way you're for the corporates. How much think you paid. I think we paid like one fifty ahead maybe, yeah, probably something similar.
Yeah, and yeah, just the thought of actually needing to ask somebody in that social setting, I think it's more intense than asking someone to marry you.
Did you was it customary to ask someone from the boys side of your school?
Wait?
You boys were in your class but you had separate formals.
Yes, no, boys weren't in my class. This is like a very convoluted way of this saying the story. But essentially we had play lunch and lunch with boys, but then just didn't have boys in the classroom, like separate classes. It was.
It was weird.
I think I get what they're doing there to like normalize the idea that you can interact with other people.
Yes, it's called parallel learning. Oh anyway, thank you. So, yes, we had some interaction with the boys, but not enough to like, you've still got to put your neck out to find someone to go to formal with you. Of course, some anxious avoidance. So I didn't have a boyfriend in high school.
Anxious avoidance.
That's that's so much is going on in this segment. I feel like, anyway, I asked a guy to my formal from the year above. He was like the last person that was that was free and why they do them like that?
And I just remember being so stressed about it.
How did you ask?
I think on.
Facebook messenger or no messenger?
Yeah, I actually probably find the message you want to do that you actually will right now?
Yeah, okay, I guess you haven't said much to him since.
Not at all. So we actually spoke a lot.
Now I'm he's like a secret boyfriend and are looking back like, actually, I think we did date. Actually he was the love of my life.
Talking about the recession. Now we're talking about Rangers, studio arts. What have we been doing these holidays? One legged horse?
You seem compatible?
He actually was quite funny anyway.
He said in twenty thirteen, Lucy, you're gone to Hollywood yet Golden Globes, And I said, no, I'm stilling out Waverley, but I do want to go to Hollywood.
So you're not going to find the message.
I can't remember, can't remember the coolest thing ever was he had an injury to his arm, so we had this like bionic armshell over his arm. So in all the photos we're po together two little friends, like absolutely no chemistry.
Calm down, don't air him like that.
So you said he was funny and when he's holding me this little bionic.
L that's hot and sweet.
It was very twenty twenty two, so there was no romantic element for the whole thing.
You didn't like, have a little chicky kiss. Nah, pretty sure.
I had a boyfriend at how you invite Tyler not your own boyfriend. My boyfriend was like twenty five.
Oh yeah, this one surf diavon Ski thongs to the wedding.
So yeah, I don't want to say anything.
Because I'm absolutely demonic. And if you're currently in school and you got school form more coming.
Up, don't worry. Life cats better.
Oh okay, this is flex and frooms on kDa.
I have been gagging. That is fairer, but I guess I started.
I've been gagging to tell you about this, so I mentioned earlier that I know enough for me, stop it gagging.
I can't take that seriously.
I hate to use my mind's I yet again, but I can't hear the word gagging without picturing things I wish not to picture.
Really, yes, when I say the word gagging, I think of brushing my tongue.
I'm thinking about the tongue, mean brush?
Whose dad did we know? I do this?
Anyway?
So I found that for the last month or so, when I get up in the morning, I feel really overstimulated and overwhelmed when I listen to music, listen to podcasts, which is unusual because I.
Used to be my morning routine.
You get up, put on music straight away, go to the bathroom, take a shower, get ready.
Music is a car music. When I land wherever I am, just music with me with them.
Then I think, I don't know what happened, maybe the weather change, and so I got gloomy and I was like, I just need a second with my thoughts or Bettyett with nothing, no stimulation.
It all needs to stop.
So these days I've been get up using my phone as an alarm and then putting it down, doing the whole getting ready process without it. And when I get into the car, obviously is my gtail. Yeah on my phone.
I start my car and then I do my daily rounds and then I do no music, which feels a bit Patrick Bateman of me, and then I just drive to where I'm going, no music, no sound, windows down, empty head.
And what I'm finding.
Is that it's actually working well in terms of me easing into stimulation and easing into the day, because usually I find that the first thing that I interact with in terms of like the type of music I'm listening to or the news article I read, sets up the tone of my day, and sometimes in ways I'm not prepared for, Like I listened to something really hard and be like, oh, I'm having the best day.
No, you just stimulate it.
So now that I'm listening to no music, no stimulation whatever, and easing into the day, it's making me feel much more aware of my body and how much anxiety I just carry regularly that I was just drowning out with tech.
It gets better. I was listening to a podcast months ago about this thing called dope mean overdose, and it's I guess what you would imagine, the fact that we're so inundated with so many different forms of things are going to spike out dope mean that it gets really difficult for your brain to level out what is an appropriate response to something that would.
Regularly give you heaps of dope mean.
So if once before, like I don't know if you remember or if you were using TikTok back in twenty twenty, but I used to use that app and laugh at every video. I was like, this is hilarious, goblin mode. I could not we're all laughing. Two years later you are here a peep out of me. It's just not getting the same And it's a cultural thing because people say, well, TikTok change, it hasn't You just got used to getting
laughter on tap incessantly. And so in a second, I want to talk to you about This podcast was listened to a couple of months ago, all about Don't Mean Overdose by doctor Anna Lemk Real Doctor, Real, Doctor Good, who talks about how dope mean is inextricably linked to pain and pleasure.
Hectic, Yes, so don't mean overdose? How do you define that the.
Phrase dope mean overdose?
I'm just making it a I don't really think it's an overdose in the traditional sense. I'm just saying we just have too much of the thing. This person basically, so that using social media can lead to a physical and psychological addiction because it triggers the brain's reward system to release. Don't mean, of course, dope mean is actually a neurotransmitter.
No, we don't need that.
So this podcast, I need to find out what it's called. But I can't only remember the doctor's name. It's not her podcast. She was just a guest, but she was talking about the dope mean sea saw and how it's inextricably linked to pain and pleasure.
Listen to this.
Our brain fights to restore the balance to dope mean in our brains. In our brain, we have a balance system like a sea saw in a playground. So remember that seesaw two ends, like when one end goes down here, then it goes up vice versa. So when we experience pleasure, it tips one way, when we experience pain it tips the other way.
It's all making sense. Yes.
One of the fundamental rules is that it wants to remain level. So with any deviation from neutrality, the brain will work very hard to restore balance, which is homeostasis. The reason why you don't have to think to blink, or to breathe or to cough. Your brain just does that. So, for example, having a piece of chocolate or a glass of wine will provide a tip to the side of pleasure and.
A release of dope.
Mean, but as soon as that's happened, our brain adapts to that phenomenon by down regulating our dope receptors and transmitters a little like a gremlin hopping on the pain side of the seasort to balance it out. So that's the reason why every time you do something and it feels really good, gets to the point where it doesn't feel good anymore. Like you eat something you really like, gorge yourself, now you're in pain and you're like, ah, don't anymore. Or when you sleep too long before you
know it was really comfy. Now your back hurts and like you be uncomfort crazy d yes, and so recognizing that as soon as you're tipping the sea swaw to one side, little goblins in your body and brain are like, we got to do work. We need balance at all times. So the challenge is with little gremlin goblins is that they lack balance and they stay on there until balance is tipped in equal and opposite amounts to the side
of pain. This is called the opponent process reaction, and this is the moment when we want another piece of chocolate, another glass of wine, another little cheesyburger grew. However, if we wait long enough, the gremlin hops off and balance is restored. But if we continue to consume in even larger amounts to overcome the tolerance, then the gremlins multiply and we're in a dope mein deficit state with the balance of the seas or tipping to the side of pain.
So if you don't naturally stop yourself from over indulging so the balance goes to level, then the little goblin gremlins, the ones that live on pain side, will be more of their mates over. Hey, she's not listening. We need to help her out. Bring more pain, bring more discomfort so she knows it's time to stop. Is the pain just physical in this we'll get to it, okay, because pain can be just think the opposite of pleasure for
whatever you're dealing with. So pain in the context of social media usage is working harder to get a laugh or a response.
Okay.
So now we need to keep drinking, not to feel good but just to feel normal. Yes, Or we need to keep eating terribly not to feel good, but just to feel normal. When we stop using the balance tips hard to the side of pain and brings on irritability, anxiousness, bad sleep, I eat, a withdrawal of some kind because we're talking about addiction, overdosing that whole thing. So this is what Anna Lemki, who an MD at Stanford, was
explaining to us. And so if you use this in the context of like social media or our phone usage or internet usage, we're not even using our devices now to feel good. We're just using them to sustain a level of like comfort or entertainment, just to get.
To a point of feeling normal.
And if like twelve hour day's screen time is what we need to feel normal, how much you think you'll need to start feeling fantastic amazing? And also what I did learn but this is from TikTok, so it's not fact checked or sided. Is that the first dope mean spike you have for the day sets up the relative
dope mean spikes for the rest of the day. So if you peek in the morning by going from sleeping, resting state to like that TikTok, then your brain's like, okay, we're trying to catch that high for the rest.
Of the day.
But you cannot and that's really because yeah, allegedly who's this guy? I don't know, but sound w going from zero to one hundred. You can't sustain that, so you crash. So what they're saying is like, ease into it, entertainment, indulgence or whatever, so at least you can sustain it for longer and have more control over it.
Apparently interesting, has it making you feel?
I'm just wondering how it works with people who have actual addictions, Like, is that how addictions start?
No, because it's like a this is like a euphemism. Okay, it's a phrase they view so we can understand the concept a little bit better.
But I don't.
It's a look addictions.
And there is social media addiction.
Do we have it?
Probably? But I think I don't think it's comparative to.
Alcoholism in the same way, Like it is an addiction of some sort and you have withdrawals and you want to consume the substance, but we're not like having the shakes and shit.
Yeah facts, hmm, food for thought.
I mean, let it simmer.
I'm still trying to figure out up how I'm meant to like apply what we're learning, But I'm gonna keep learning and come back to you. In the meantime. Try to not use your phone when you first wake up.
See it feels you're listening to Flex and Frooms on Kita.
This is a segment I call frum his face where I bring in some food. It's usually like a pasta based dish for FLEXI to try. More often than not, she will refuse to eat it, or if she does eat it, she'll come in with a closed mind and roast meat.
That's not true.
I have eaten cold rosotto for you, and everybody knows I like my rice, our dentate undercooked.
Well, this is the thing.
I made this lasami last night, and I purposely didn't cook it all the way through because I thought you'd like the sheets nice and.
That's really sweet. I don't feel like eating.
That's okay. I won't force you to do anything, but.
Tell us about it. Do you have any tips?
I do actually have tips, because with this segment, I try to come in with some sort of like cooking helpful moment tip because you're a Michelin star ches. Some would say definitely gearing up, like I definitely. When I have my own show, I want to have a cooking sex for sure. That's got to be a big part of it.
Gordon Sha.
Before we started working together twenty twenty, I devised this show called Froom's World, and you were going to be one of the guests.
So that'll happen.
It's happening that it is happening.
AnyWho. Lasagna. I was making veggie lasagna walking around the supermarket.
There's no spinach. Oh, there wouldn't be in this Dayna.
Zucchini's twelve dollars fifty a kilogram?
How many zucchini's gonna killer? You reckon?
Two? No?
Three?
Ten?
Whoa? That seems like a good deal.
Yeah, oh well I got two and it came in.
Wait, how big is zucchini? I'm thinking this big. I think a cucumber. I think cucumbers are heavier. Zuccini is a kind of light, but they're bulky vibes.
Anyway, So no spinach, you didn't get any Well.
This is my hack.
Okay.
The lasagna that I made called for not cottage cheese, ricotta, ricotta, and spinach, so spinach was definitely necessary.
I was like, where am I gonna get the speech? I'm gonna have to go to the other supermarket.
No, go to the freezer ale you dummy frozen spinach chunks. Yes, for smoothies, yeap, because as we know, we all need our leafy greens.
But there's none that the souper market right now. Who would have ever thought?
But there is some apparently independent grosses. A lot of them are covering the charge.
Okay, small business, A small business owner, she got a bitch share in IgA.
Nah.
But if you can't go to your local independent, ready, Taylor, go to the frozen You've got frozen cakes.
Support the corporation you can't get down to your local.
I'm a fresh fruit person and that's all I'll say. So, Yeah, frozen spinach works for most things. You just drain it under hot water. And that's actually a fun thing to do because you got to like mushed up with your fingers.
That's a great hack. And how was it?
On a scale of one to ten? This is a bit like the dope mean thing. I was eating a loan last night, so, as you can imagine, it got a little bit out of hand. Oh, Corley, Yeah, I gorged on lasagna, so I would say first serving delicious, second serving.
I couldn't finish it.
By the third I didn't actually go that far. Maybe we'll try it, try it like that a lot. I also do like your commitment to cooking. I think it's going to serve you well till Kingdom come or something.
WiFi.
This is flex and froomsa FLEXI.
I know that you are obsessed with many things. We have hashed it over on multiple episodes. I know that you like technology and you're not afraid to talk about death. One of the first experiences we had working together was on your old podcast where.
We flexus semi factual history lessons.
That's it, no free press.
We spoke about death and we had a very illuminating conversation, and I would say that was the moment when we decided we make a good team.
Yep.
Conversationally, we yet to see if that really works out.
Too soon.
I'm recrding it every day.
And I found this story on one of my favorite substack newsletters, and it's this guy who talked about futurism and then gives us the facts and then gives his take.
That's fun. What's his name?
It's New Week, Same Humans. Basically, it is a weekly newsletter on trends, technology and society. By a guy called David mattin Awesome. He's in doing it for two years.
So what's the tea.
The t is that Alexa can talk to you in your dead.
Relative's voice space right now.
Well, Amazon has revealed an experimental Alexa feature that allows the AI assistant to mimic the voices of users dead relatives. The company demode the feature, demo them.
It's just it's new to you.
Every syllable is a challenge.
The company demo the feature at its annual MARS conference, showing a video in which a child asked Alexa to read a bedtime story in the voice of his dead grandmother. As you saw in this experience, instead of Alexis voice reading the book, it's the grandma's kids, the kid's grandma's voice,
said Amazon's head scientist for alex Ai. The AI scientist introduced the clip by saying that adding human attributes to AI systems was increasingly important in these times of the ongoing pandemic, when so much of us lost loved ones.
Okay, put a lit on it.
Just say you want to make some new tech. You know, COVID was happening six years ago when this thing was in development. So I'm trying to make it a new story anyway. The thing I like about that is I would love to hear my voice as my own AI assistant.
That'd be quite fun. Really, Hey, lil, can you take me to cater? Yeah? Babe?
Oh you know what? You know what I reckon is going to happen?
Yeah?
Well is you know how we make certain money off personality based endeavors. That should be a thing doing a whole voice like moment to them, be someone's Alexa.
Amazing, write that down. Okay, that's a good idea, go to WAYE.
Would you do the dead relative thing?
Well?
Yeah, I tried it out, but I don't think I have any dead relatives that I was close enough to that I want to hear their voice.
God forbid of one of my faves left. I might want a little something I don't want to think about death?
Please?
Sorry? Can I guess sensitive and emotional?
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