You know, I sometimes think of my my brain as a culinary box, and there's all this stuff up there and all I have to do is call on the memory for those things and I've cooked for so many years. I've been cooking for 50 years. It's it's memory muscle. It's not just a memory like, oh, I remember being a kid and being in a bike. It's not just like It's remembering... You're remembering, like, it's sort of a process of choosing where you're going I'd like some vanilla with that, or I'd
like some hot sauce with that. Alright right? No. Not that. I wouldn't let use that. I would use this instead. It's like a musician moving notes around in their mind before they release a song. Behind every amazing flavor is an amazing human who has perfect their craft. Welcome to flavors unknown, a series of inspirational conversations with renowned culinary leaders. Discover how their cultural identity shapes their creative process. With your hosts, emmanuel.
Welcome to another episode of the flavors unknown podcast. The podcast that takes you behind the kitchen doors of America's most innovative chefs. I'm am Host, Emmanuel La roche. I have been in a food industry for more than 20 years both in europe and in Us and every other week, I have genuine conversation with a claim chefs, pastry 3 chefs and mix from around the Us. And today, We have a true coronary legend joining us.
He is the pioneer of New world Cuisine, a celebrated author and a mentor to many in a world. I am talking about none other than Chef Norman van. In this episode, we do delve 2 She Van incredible journey, from his early influences and the pivotal moments that shaped his car year to the innovative fusion of old world and new world cuisine that he's famous for. So whether you're foodie an inspiring chef or just someone who loves a good story.
Stay tuned for an Pact with inside inspiration, and a whole lot of flavors. Hi, Chef. How are you? I'm good and emmanuel. Thank you. How are you? I am very good, and I'm very honored to have you on show of flavors are unknown. That's very excited to to have a conversation with you today. I'm looking forward to it. So I I want to go back, you know, before we go about talk about all your experiences. Can you share a bit about the early life and how you first became, you know,
interested in cooking? Well, looking back, I could see the in inter automations of it as a from my childhood days because of the way I was fascinated with flavors and and food that my mother would make or, you know, she was She was 1 of those people that would make her own strawberry jam and Cherry jelly and put up tomatoes, and she was she was quite the the home cooked, she was not at all, you know, in
in the business as a chef. So so from very early on remember, loving that, loving food, loving being in the kitchen with my sisters and my mom, just doing the simple tasks that we would do, but it it was the furthest thing from my mind, even up to the age of 20 that food would be something I would do as profession. You know I mean, I'm a little bit before, perhaps some of the guests as far as cryo goes. And the the conversation as far as becoming a wasn't part of the American
dialogue in the 19 sixties and seventies. I mean, the shifts that were talked about, maybe the, you know, a few on television like Julia child or the Gallo court gourmet kind of things. Those were... You know, those were far away to me as, you know, being a cowboy or being, you know, a space in in a space program or something. So it wasn't it wasn't there. Now, ironically, though, in some ways, it could have been there my mother was in the restaurant business.
My mom and Dad separated when I was 9, and my mom had to go into the work force again. Mh. And and this was just where she met my father when before they married. She was a Waitress. And so she got into back into the business, she always loved it. She always loved the cam to the the hospitality, the people. She was made for it really.
Occasionally, I would, you know, I would I would go to her job and wait for her to get off work or something do my homework and in the booth, you know, with between the shifts or something like that. But still. I mean, it wasn't it was not at all in my mind to be in the in a cook. Until I had realized that college was over for me, and I I'd I'd I'd worked... I went to college over for a little while, but it was also supposed to say out of going to, you know, to
war. And there might some the people that I I went to high school with went the warren didn't come back. And so I was I was not interested in that. But finally, the war you know, ended. And and I began to have to work and get jobs and only thing I was really qualified before was we're blue collar jobs, you know, factories and things like that. I hated them. I I had a slew of them. And then after 1 Nasty day being a hot roof.
I was fired for enjoying a rains storm and to realize that my celebration was short lived because I needed to make rent. And so I answered a job in a newspaper for a short order cook and it said no experience necessary, and that became the title of my memoir 30 years later. No experience. Sorry. So I took the job. It was it was in the the the very town I was born in, was the next town over from where I lived and I became a short order cook at the age 21.
And while it was nothing like, you know, being a chef, it was it was the beginning. You know, it was the it's the beginning of my path. Professional. Okay. Were they, like, pivotal moments and or mentors that you know, you cross path, like early in your carrier that's gets shaped, you know, your path. Yes. You as the chef. Yes, but it was in... Know. I I sometimes we'll tell my chefs how remarkably slow growth will be in the beginning. You know, the things said people wanna see happen
quickly don't happen so quickly. So the answer is, yes. We have have... Well we we all need to have mentors I never worked... I never went to cooking school. I never worked for anyone who was in a magazine on television or famous in any way. But I... But by my third or fourth... I started to have mentors and and Emmanuel when I wrote my memoir, IIIW those people into the memoir, as as is because they were teachers to me. But they were...
You know, 1 was on African American gentleman who was a navy cook that was my... Who taught me some things about cooking as my second job, and an all my barbecue place, in key west that had no walls. It was just, you know, it's just thrown together sort of a building, Jimmy Buffett played there as a as an unknown 6 string guitar player a couple times. It was just very, very cash. Well, the next the next mentor, I'd say was, I went back to Illinois.
I had rather elliptical relationship with trying to figure out where I was going to live. And I worked in a in that had a a fine restaurant, sort of, like, holding on to the glory days of France and a lot of it was a a lot of chic in the sense that it wasn't... You know, and the way they maybe called something V Or off, which was a long way from V Or off, You know? They they they band about these, the the fine the fine dining, the fine cuisine names, but
they were taking short shortcuts cuts. But there was a Japanese man that worked there who had at 1 point in time been the chef, but he got cancer, and he was dying, but his approached cuisine with something because he didn't work the regular schedule. He had time to to talk to me, and I was, you know, 25 years old, and and we was... We would be able to take a break in the afternoon and drink his teas. And so he would sometimes fix me something.
He couldn't eat because of his cancer. I mean, he He needed to eat, like milk trick milkshake deep weight on, but he was my first mentor, this Japanese chef named Tokyo Su. And his his, you know, never had a Cookbook, never was on Tv, but, man he knew his stuff, and he had a huge effect on me and and and and I think he opened to me up the idea of of eastern foods early on Eastern ingredients. And so that was really big.
You know, obviously, we are going to jump because so I cannot spend, you know, all the time where I should, you know, really, that can every step you know, of your car year because you had, a fantastic career, but long, you know, you add... You have been credited, you know, to with pure... Pioneering like, the new world cuisine. So what will inspired you to develop, you know, this unique style.
Timing was really good. America was going through a a big change around 19 76 with the Bi, And I think Americans were beginning to think of themselves as having... You know, they were looking to to have have their own style of cuisine in the restaurants. We, you know, we had a huge period of of of European cuisine being the most wanted.
But we began to see the Southwestern Cuisine food movement, New Orleans, things like this, California food movement, obviously, being in Key west, I I was very fascinated by what was being done in the United States with people interpreting food the way they were interpreting it, and it occurred me that we were ripe for doing the same thing
in South Florida. And so my timing was was was such that I decided that as opposed to going somewhere else and being part of part of the Southwestern food movement or the California from. I decided to stick my flag in the ground here in Florida ends. And and and and with my menus, try to give voice to displace.
And this was really like the the confluence of what's what's happening with the local ingredients and obviously seafood food ingredients, you know, in Florida, but as well, the influences for what Cuba, the caribbean beans and Latin America. That's a little bit that, you know, palette that you play with. Absolutely. I think it I was really lucky also to landed first in key west where very... There there wasn't cosmopolitan dining. They're... You know, there... It was really...
You know, it was really more rustic in Key west. And that was good because it it gave me a chance to see cuban food straight up, Food, haitian food, and I was still, you know, very, very young and very, very green. But going to even the grocery store and and seeing the condiments that would been on the shelves for the for the families and the way they would cook because of their their long ties between Cuba
and bahamas, and especially. And then when I got to to Miami, it accelerated greatly because there were so many more influences from the Latin countries here in Miami and also became fodder for me to to differentiate myself from the cooking that was happening in other parts of the world. So I mean, preparing this conversation, I've read that as it back in 19 93. So I was not even considering coming to the Us. But you you describe that the southern tip, you know, of Florida being the culinary
nexus, Mh. Connecting like various you know, rich culture cuisine that you just described? Mh. So now if you fall, fast forward today, how do you feel about, you that statement, you know, today, and do you think that he's, has change evolved? What's your thoughts about it? Oh, very much. I think, you know, I think we continue to change to evolve. And if we don't, we'll get run over. Mh. Yeah. That that that quote lives on the
bank... Has lived on the back of my menus for many, many years, The map quote is what we call it for short, and it just came to me in a conversation with a friend, you know, using the map of the world as a table clock was the metaphor. Yeah. I think that emmanuel, I think that being located here at the tip of Southern Florida. Gives us a real... It's like being in a at a lighthouse in a way we're able to look out and see and and and be affected by so much South American and Central America, and
the Caribbean all of that. I mean, I think it was my fifth or 6 cookbook book, I wrote called New World Kitchen. That I I went... You know, I I that book covers recipes from over 30 countries. So that was a huge learning curve for me. And and I... And and it was a great opportunity for me to learn from the community because by going around to the restaurants and the markets here in South Florida, I got much more deeply into it than
I... And than if I had not written that book and I maintained sort of the isolation of the kitchen. Because In many ways, when you're a professional chef, you know, there's...
I think there's a mythology that you're... You know, the people think that you're, you know, you're always flying here and there, And really, much of your life is built around getting ready for service and in and developing your menus and getting the the product in and all of those different things that take time, but by writing the book while at the restaurant and able to put the... Put menu items together from the research, just gave me a greater opportunity to dive in more and more deeply.
How how would you define and and describe your your culinary philosophy, you know, and how it evolves you know, over the years? Early on, III think I was really struck by... I've been very much affected by writers and song writers. People who could... Who could who could put down on paper and thought at least, you know, the the idea of bringing...
Stories to life, really important. And and and and and some of the writers including Thornton Wilder who wrote our town and I just I was in that play in high school A as a very young person in high school. And so I kinda get a chance... I had a chance to really delve into the place of that, which is kind of arc cane. But Faulkner in particular, as an American writer and in in some degree hemingway many too. But Faulkner, almost all of his is his stories to place in a single county.
And and and by bearing down on that specifics of South Florida, me from Key west through Miami and Now Orlando, but by focusing on Florida, I I feel like I was able to give much greater, get much greater into the depth of it. And and enjoy watching a a piece of your... 1 of your earlier interviews with with nina Compton who spent time... Yeah. Which... Yeah. That's... She mentioned you as, you know, as her mentor. Yeah. Of kind. Yeah. I mean... But her... In her story, as you know
from from, not only... I'm... Your your research, which you must do a lot of for your shows because I've seen some of the some of these shows from her from your research, you know, you know, how San lucia was so it remains a giant effect on her. I tried to do the same thing. I I tried to teach her that, and I think she
did learn very very well. But I I tried to do the same thing with the others that have come through my kitchens and aren't in my kitchen now, but I tried to get them to understand how much it matters to what we put on our menu needs to tell the story of where we are. And with new cuisine representing the idea of how Columbus came here in search of India and the shorter route to the spice markets so he could, you know,
make money. For the cancun queen of Spain by doing so, how how those the reverberation in history were extraordinary and we can... We have so much to... So much materials to work with by utilizing that that point of view. I know I, 1 for a long time about all these things. So rein me in
with your next question. No. No. No. No. III think it's fascinating, and you know, I had a lot of guests on the show that's we're exactly talking about, like, you know, the same philosophy of fee and and really anchoring their their approach to cooking with, like, the the roots of the place that's, you know, they decided to locate, you know, their their restaurants. So... But I always like to have a specific example.
So can you, maybe illustrate, you know, that specific, you know, approach, you know, with unique ingredients that you identified throughout the years, you know, in from South Florida? Yes. Actually, I... That's an excellent question. If I have known about it, I probably would have had this list of 16 ingredients, because during 1 point, My career I was teaching also at Miami dade College, And and they asked me to to come up with some some essay material if you will. And so,
yes. That is this the the the the the discovery of these dishes, and the vocabulary that goes with these dishes was very influential to me. When you asked that question and the first thing that entered my mind was Mo. I had no idea what Mo was when I was kid growing up in the Midwest, But, you know, I I learned that it was something that was treated with reference, by the people, especially Caribbean people.
And and but being the person I am not not sort of like formatted by, you know, the rigid rules of of a family saying, well, this is how you use mo and this is the only way you use mo. This is the way your grandmother and her great grandmother and that brother. This is how they did it. I I was taken with the idea of it from an ingredient or from a sauce standpoint.
But I was working with some shrimp 1 day, and still not understanding why people were people who were native to hear Cuba were so in love with Yu, you know, boil... Many peep many guests may many blisters may not know, but you guys is, like a potato, like Caribbean potato. But in the Caribbean home cooking, you could would be, like, a boiled starch, dressed with mo. And to me, that was, like,
what's the excitement there? But if you grow up with something, you know, if you grow up in the south, you're gonna have, you know, grits with some butter and salt and pepper, you're gonna be very happy. So many instances of this. But I was working with the the shrimp 1 day, and I... In my mind, I mean, we're cleaning the shrimp, taking you know, splitting it and taking the van out. And I somebody had made
Yu for staff meal. And I thought, Well, but if I smashed up some You and put it into that that that wedge right there. And then krista, neil know, pan Crisp and then served it with mo. I'd have my ko, but act within the elegance and haute cuisine of the shrimp. And so there are many examples of that rushed 1, but if how through my through my minds
imagination. Through the imagination of my mind, I was able to to sometimes twist things around keeping the roots of it there, but also, celebrating it in a slightly different way and and giving it a different feeling, different positioning. And that when it's done right, I think that the diner, even the diner who may have been a traditional will go. I've never had Uti like that. I've never had mobile like that and I noah, When my staff talks about something they never
want me to take off the menu. That's 1 of the top 5. And do you think that because you didn't grow up with Mo or Uc, then it allows you, you know, to have more freedom, you know, for creativity, you know, around those ingredients and come up with something, you know, outside of the box. Absolutely. I didn't grow up with, you know, you're from France. I didn't grow up with Fu. Nobody did. We... We weren't allowed to import Fa out the United States.
Until around 19 90, you know, every every bit of fraud before that was in a can. But when when the law changed, and Fda allowed us has begin to use Fuck g well, I created something called my Down island French toast, and that is a a preparation that I don't think any Frenchman ever came up with. No. Why where is that 1? Because I don't think I've seen it this 1? It's a it's a mash up between my mother's way of making French toast, and most mother's way of making French toast for that matter.
When you're when you have your mother's French toast. I mean, it's large in your memory and large in your heart. And so I kept that part of it, but as opposed to just serving the pieces of bread that had been dipped in egg and grid, in between the bread, which in this case is B, I had marinated fa in in triple sec, with the nutmeg and cl, and and vanilla bean and zest of orange and let that sit overnight, and then take out the marinade these are on the wafers now.
Sear it and keep that beautiful butter, texture and then put that between the slices of the French toast. And then for the sauce instead of a maple syrup, I made a a savory passion fruit caramel sauce. Oh, wow. And so it's it's kind of a it's kind of a a brunch dish, but people, you know, they... Yeah. They have a... Fantastic. I've had people commitment for dessert. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah no. I can't Understand that. Yeah. Yeah And every fact now, we find friends some places that have 4 going
ice cream. Boys? Yeah. For. So, yeah, Why not. Oh, yeah. That sounds delicious. By the way. You love to try it. I'm. I said to you, I'm not going to be there, you know, not in not in few days. So generally speaking that's what are your main source is of of inspiration when you create, like, you know, creating deck dish on the menu?
Memory and produce, the ingredients, nature, that, you know, the things whether it's a beautiful Sc up or it's some herbs or it's the memory of things that, you know, that that I've experienced before. I You know, I sometimes think of my my brain as a culinary box, and there's all this stuff up there and all I have to do is call on the memory for those things and because I've cooked for... You know, I've cooked for so many years. I've been cooking for 50 years.
So I've soaked me in memories of... And it's it's memory muscle. It's not just a memory like, oh, I remember being a kid to being in a bike. It's not just like, it's remembering... You're remembering, like, it's sort of a process of choosing where you're going, I'd like some vanilla with that. Or, I'd like some hot sauce with that. Or alright? No Not that. I wouldn't let use that. I would use this instead. It's like a musician moving notes around in their mind before they release the song.
I I want to talk to you about, you know, the the Tv show that you had the... There was, like, a hit on the Amazon Prime. You know, the Norman Florida kitchen. So Yeah. So what inspired you to to create this series and, you know, what what do you hope like, the viewers, you know, to take away from it? It always comes back to the same thing and whether it's through the books or through my radio show that I did for years
not like your radio show different. But it's always about sharing the excitement of cooking that I want to convey to them. In the... When I was given the opportunity to do this shell norman Florida kitchen, it was It was through Blacks stone products which they make beautiful grid and that's outdoor cooking equipment.
And so the person who is 1 of the main content creators for Blacks stone, Nathan Lip, but he and I met years ago at 1 of the food shows in Atlanta, and get much younger than me kind of a fan. He told me and, you know, of my books and things like that. Well, his life evolved and he became move from being a chef to being more of a a video creation person. And so he asked me if I would be interested in doing some series with them, And so that's how that got...
That's how that began. But we always... I mean, he knew and I knew that if I was gonna do that, I was gonna do it around my subject, match which is gonna be Florida, and New world cuisine, fusion cuisine, but at a on a home cooking level. I mean, I'm not trying to do dishes for this thing that would be, you know, with a group of 12 chefs, you know, sporting tweezers. So I mean, the the the places, you know, that covered from, you know, from Key
west to Little Havana and so on. So how how did you come up with like, the... Those specific recipes and and the location that are featured. It's just kind of a natural flow, you know, being in the right, you know, being in Key west, when you know, we touched on the key lime pie, and we were out there fish... With the fishermen fishermen, and, jade, those things are really organic. They just happened there is you've got so much material that you've already
got, you know, you've... In your rep repertoire and when you're in a... Well, like, when we I don't know if you saw this 1 part where we're a Asian market, and I bought I got some some King Trumpet mushrooms, and I'd made a barbecue. I'm not a miso barbecue for carrots. And and all those were not ideas that we went in ahead of going to that market is by really. Not like being in the market and going... Okay. Let's get the stuff, now how is normally Van can gonna...
How is he going to interpret those products? Okay? So do you have any behind the scenes stories or memorable moments when you were filming, you know, that there. Well, I'll tell you. For most of those... Things. They... If they read the memoir, they're gonna read stories like what the night I fell out of Jimmy Buffett window. Meeting Tennessee Williams after a play that we were at a party at this house and he kissed me, and there's a lot of things that were in
the memory that were... They might not expect for, you know, a serious chef. You you have been, obviously in the query scene, you know, for decades aids. And you have seen a lot of trends, you know, come come and go. So what's your take on the the current states, you know, on the... In the food industry today? That's a good question. That's a big question. You know, I feel real I was really... I've used this term lucky a few times in this conversation emmanuel, but I still feel
like that's it's the right term. I feel really lucky to be in the in the in the in the sweep of time that I've been involved with and remain involved with. In that, American cuisine really found its voice for the first time in in the ways that it did in in the seventies eighties and nineties, nothing can stay the same. I mean, the success of the business, the, you know, the chefs becoming famous enough to have restaurants in 12 different places in the world to have
products to have all of these things. This was not even you know, there this could not almost have been imagined back in the 19 sixties or something like that. III feel a little bit sorry for in some ways for the chefs who are are... I mean in their thirties right now or forties right now because it's so much more of a crowded field and they're sort of up... Well, you know, it's it it's lost some of the innocence and some of the some of them... Just openness, I guess, you know, and there's
so much competition for attention? You know, how many viewers do you have on Instagram or you know, you know, do you have an agent or all the things that I think change, you know, kinda changed the, this the simple beauty of it is is... Some that's some that's really being overrun, You know, and there's all, you know, this whole thing about the 50 best restaurants in the world. I mean, how that... What does... You know, what does it come from? What is your
best? What like, somebody asking me my 50 favorite songs of all time. I... You know, it'd be a list that I could make up, and the next day wouldn't be true anymore. You know, it's... We live in this other. We live in a naval gazing world in many ways that I and I think it's harder. For for the chefs who are in their, you know, doing earnest work they're in their thirties, their forties, and and and they're trying to do the best work of their lives.
And then, of course, you know, when the pandemic came, I mean, what, what a giant kick in the guts, that was for for many of Men know, people who worked in my kitchens and we're by this time now have been I had their own restaurants, but I saw them having to put their their beautiful creations in a box to be able to sell it to somebody so they could stay afloat.
You know, I I was... I didn't have to do that with when I was in the at that age for myself, and I my heart goes out But we are now, you know, thankfully, past those days. Yeah. But I think in many ways, we're, you know, we're, you know, the the... The hard thing now for is is to find the staff that we used to be able to get much more easily. You are mentioning you know, the the acceleration of things, the the, you know, the whole aspect of, being, you know,
putting your fingerprint, you know, being exposed. And, at the same time, I see with the new generation of individuals, you know, this idea of moving fast you know, through their car year, and you were mentioning earlier in in our conversations that people need to take the time. Yeah. You know, to, develop their craft and and, you know, step
by step, you know, elevate themselves. But it seems that with all the conversation that I have with the chef in there, the 30 forties that you are mentioning, that in fact a hard time to keep, you know, some of their workforce because, you know, especially with what they see on Tv and chefs becoming more, let's say, less a blue collar job and more, you know, giving white color opportunities. They they want to accelerate and, you know, they don't want to stay too long in
in 1 place. So what's what's your take on that? The only tool I have in the toolkit is that that I think really makes a big difference to them since I don't have the kind of money that, you know, you you could let's say, you know, a, a private chef could be paid a lot of money of who was working for, I don't know, a a vast hotel where they've got all kinds of convention business. Line cooks that make more money than than I could have trump making,
you know, But we... But we'd offer manual more than anything else's education. Many of my... Many people who come to work with me, 20 years ago would say the same thing over and over again, working with. Working at Norman was, like, culinary school, but I got paid to go. So I could... I know my time after time I, you come here and you're a line cook. You come 3 years from now, you're gonna be able to be a line cook who became a so chef, and then 2 more years, a so sushi chef who became the
chef cuisine scene. You know, it's not like you're gonna go on the slow drift up to the middle class, you can, if you really work hard and you hit the books and you... Put in the time and you really pay attention. You can go from, you know, your hourly wage to a good living wage, and a good salary and the opportunity to maybe have your own place 1 day by the same way I did. I didn't... You know, I did it by work and reading. How do you stay relevant in this industry?
You know, when you look back on all the years. You know, that you have been working. Stay curious. Okay? Absolutely. You know, that's that's been my fountain of youth when it comes to, not the physical world, but the spiritual world and the and the and the creative world is who remain curious. I mean, you know, there... You you have you have the opportunity every day that you're out in
out in the world when you're in... Whether you're at a, you know, at the local grocery store or whether you're on a a fortunate trip to India, or whether you're reading an amazing book or you're having the chance to do a pop up with some friends you've never cope with before, asking questions, being, you know, being in ac, you know, I'm curious. I think this is this is the most important thing. I can some people... You know, it seems like they get to be 3 or 40 or 50
years old, and they're like, okay. Well I know how to be a chef? Well, you know, why did you put it, you know? Why is that in a box? 50 I mean, do you think that Faulkner said at 50. He knows how to be a writer? But it I've I think it was, like, Michel. Maybe it was a quote said I'm beginning to learn. I'm just we learn, you know? And and I... That is very striking to me. So of course, I know how to, you know, I can I can cook plenty? I can cook, you know, I've cooked for some amazing chefs.
I've cooked for some amazing human beans, but my favorite thing to cook is the next thing. You said that you you cook for, you know, a lot of very well known, you know, individuals. Do you have, like, a 1 of the best memory of... Cooking for someone that's, you know, you got in mind? Yeah. Freddie Year day. Mh. Julia child. Maya angelo. Okay. Well, frances for Cop. I mean, there... I could
Yeah. At least his log. I understand. And and bear in from different fields too not just, you know, not just cuisine, but artists, some that would be famous some I'm not, But some that were artists that would made a big difference to me that maybe not as, you know, name recognition is the ones I've just mentioned, But... So just you know, the the bubble of it, you know, I talked about Jimmy Buffett before. But, yeah, I mean, Jimmy lived next door where I was the chef for a while. So he... We fed
him all glass of people. Yeah. What do you believe is, like, the legacy that you are leaving behind in the union Yards? I'm not leaving. I'm not seeing this, but what is the... What is like the, you know, the don't know if it's the ambition, but at least, you know, what you what you would like to leave as, you know, your fingerprints on your mark on the on the industry or the people... You know, to to keep in mind? Yes. I'm not saying that you are leaving. Right nuts. I had at all. I kidding.
Who knows when we leave. We do not know. 1 word... I think emmanuel, I think for sure is a combination of he he gave voice to Florida. He He he wrote an essay that became a speech and a phrase that's called Fusion cooking that traveled the world. And it remains in the world 30 years later. He was a good he was a good teacher and a fair boss. You know, those are things I'd like to have people say. Very good. So I'm I'm going to switch to the the rapid fire question. So better You and I going on.
Sorry. I better get some espresso or something. No don't worry. You you and I are going on a tasting tour in Miami. So where are you going to take me to 5 spots that you are going to take me to? Oh my gosh. I can't I can't play favorites. You know, but I mean I, but it doesn't have to be favorite, but that maybe places that you like
to go as well, you know? And I can't if I mentioned a rest that Restaurant and there's gonna be 3 people that used to work with for me that are gonna be, like, how come you didn't mention my restaurant. You know, I... It's it's drunk this is not any a quick answer at all. But, yeah. I've been able to... I'm putting together...
It's a a long answer sort of... I'm sorry, but it's gonna... I have to tell you, The Ja penn foundation is putting together a an amazing tribute to the Chef's life called 90 for 90 where they'll be 90, different events, a coincides with 90 birthday. Okay. From coast to coast and different levels, you know, from haute cuisine, high end months like Danielle or, the French laundry or whatever. They asked me if I would put
together a restaurant... High end risk... High end dinner celebrations in Miami and another 1 in Orlando. So with the Miami, what maybe me think of this was I was able to make a selection of the 6 chefs that we will each get to do a dish. Oh, great. And that way, I get to recognize, you know, them and and help and have them be a part of honoring chef the pen. So that's that's kind of a... That's a nice thing. But to try and get back to your aunt... Your question,
manual. I mean, 1 of the 1 of the places that I would say is a farm stand called Robert is here. It's got a very unusual name I know and and and and and it's... But it's in the name of this place for 60 something years. And Robert's is a real person, and it's just a fantastic farm standard started off with a card cardboard table on a side of a road with some watermelon and some... Cucumbers on it when he
was selling just that 1 item. But through that became this family business, that would be a place I would have to take you to. I would take you to the cuban restaurant that's very almost within walking distance of our home called... And Get this. Why? I mean, there's a there's a number of really good cuban restaurants that are... That I could take
you to. Not as many as there might have been 25 years ago, but I'm not saying it's the best cuban restaurant, but it's it's it's it's it's the classic old Mh family owned cuban restaurant. That's part of the neighborhood. I would take you to the original cuban fruit and vegetable stand called H, the palace of juices. And and I went there. I was taken there by a and man that owned the hotel that gave me my first chance to begin to cook in Miami after leaving Key west and coming to Miami.
I I was hired to work at this hotel on South Beach and should drive the Betsy Ross. And he took me over there his in this white cadillac 1 day, and it just blew my mind. To see this Caribbean market in full flower, and it's... There they have various outposts of them now but. It is... It's not just you know, not just fruit and vegetables. It's also, like, they've got hot food and sandwiches and coffee, and... And and juice drinks, but to those that kind of thing.
Alright. III can't. I can't. I tripped up over the whole idea of of telling you a restaurant though. What else can I tell you a place? But maybe you can mention, like, the Us saying that you are working with the 6 chefs, you know, for this Yeah. Separation of 90. So maybe you can... I'm we can mention that. Love to mention the the foundation. That you cannot out at the moment. I could out what. Mentioned why I can I can mention some of them?
Yeah, places that we would go would be to show you why I selected 6 ships to perform if you will, with me for a celebration of the life of Chef Ja, It's called 90 for 90, and we'll be doing a a very elegant dinner in Miami at the restaurant called Syria, which is a new restaurant town. The the the founding chef of Syria operates out of Lisbon where he's got a 2 star, a Michelin restaurant there. His chef Cuisine Miguel Mass is is going to be on
the ground... On the crown with me in the kitchen that night along with a Michael Belt train and Michael Schwartz, and those are 3 Michaels. By the way, Just didn't really. Yep. There'll be 6 of us in in total, and I'm very excited about that. So K doing doing pastries. Yeah. So I would I would love... Actually, I haven't been that restaurant. Yeah because it's that new, but Miguel was my chef cuisine seen for a period of time, so I know him well.
I would wanna go there or else would I want to go. I would want to go to a books and bookstore, which is the best bookstore in Florida about yeah. Monday. And a place that I go to very often both for Cookbook and for and for novels, for novels. Novel. Okay. I gotta have books buy me at all all time. So those are some places that I would... I I have to send you mine. Yeah. I saw that went on your website website. Yeah. That's great. So maybe I have nothing that you will learn anyhow.
Most are mine over there and those are my inspiration over there. Okay. Very good. So what's your go to guilty pleasure food? Go you guilty pleasure food. I guess, you know, like, many chefs we like something simple after work, you know, I I... The first thing that came to mind, I guess is always the best answer so I'd... I would make some homemade pizza, or I'd I'd have friend make homemade pizza and have bottle of wine and some pizza it be out... If that's guilty I'm guilty.
What's the favorite topping for pizza then for you? Have a mushrooms tomato. Cheese happy. So, you know? I... Yeah. They mean... But they'd have to be... You know, they'd have to be good ones. There's no canned mushrooms in this world for me. Yeah. So now I ask What is your favorite mushroom? Favorite mushroom, and a pizza in general. Now In half for the pizza? For the pizza. Mh. Let's call the Sean charles.
Oh my gosh. Yes. Okay. Yeah. You you mentioned that name and brings me back to my youth when I was doing you know, mushroom picking with for with my dad. Nice. Beautiful. Yeah. Mushroom, like, Sun and and more else are like, the cool... 2 magical help from. When when I was asking of, you know, about a Busy bean pizza or not pizza because the number 1 would be more morales. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1. So what's your biggest pet peeve in the kitchen? A lack of respect for ingredients?
Mh. People who would who who don't cook with that mindset, that mindfulness of taking care of the cuisine of taking you know, these are living things or recently pulled from nature, they're, you know, from their life to provide for us. So if they don't have a sacred attitude toward the food, that is a real problem for me. The
way they would handle it. The way they would cut it, the way they would lean it, the way they would the way they would played it, you know, the way they would they would think about that, you know, enhancing its flavor instead of d distracting from its flavor. All of these things would make me very, very more than pee. Yeah. I understand. Yeah. It's a it's it's a it's the sac of food that's important to mean. Yeah. Number 1.
So that there's is 1 lesson from your culinary journey that continues to resonate with you today. Mh. Yes. The the lesson that's number 1 is that you can learn from anybody. Okay. You cannot you cannot tele book by its cover. You never know who might be showing you something or telling you something or sharing something with you that might enlarge your your vocabulary, your culinary area aptitude attitude very
much. I was raised that way. My mother was very much kind of person who would strike up a conversation with anybody and be very interested in what they might have to offer to say. Like I said earlier, in in this in
this beautiful conversation with you. She was in the restaurant business and she was social, and she would she would bring people back to our home from time to time after work or on a day off, and we would have, you know, the lady who was from Mexico or the the Japanese chef or a person who maybe was from her her neighborhood on New York City or something. And the the vocabulary and the conversations about food would be and and fun and all of that. And it was
her openness. Really, there's a book that Mentioned wrote that sits on a 1 of the books shelves over here called the my home is the world. And I and I and I think that is that really that really is what my mom was all about what is she could she could make herself feel at home and and make other people at feel at home with her so that that hospitality really is is a is a natural. And and I... And I... And I... And I try to... I don't have to try. It's sort
of there. But I... I, you know, when I come into a situation where maybe somebody's new to me, I'm... I tried to not be you know, I've been doing this for 50 years. I try to be, like, you know, what do you... What do you got? What do you know? What's what's on your mind? I wanna I wanna jam with you if we're if we can? So the last question I for you is, you know, your program met throughout your carriers, people that give a lot of advice, and
sometimes they are not the best ones. So if there's like, 1 worse advice that you have seen or heard given in the hospitality industry. Bad advice you're asking mh just give it. Bad advice. Go for the money.
Go for the money. Okay money. Go for that money before that before the person has has given them a chance to given themselves a chance to go for the wisdom, go for the the opportunity to learn, go for the knowledge as opposed to you just, you know, take take this fast track to know, who's ever gonna pay you 50 cents more. Okay. Chef, thank you so much for all this wisdom. And all the advice that you have given and share your your experience. I am really, you know, pleased that I was able to
have you on the show. So thank you for your time. Yeah, the honor is mine. I'm glad that we have Crossed and when you come to Florida, you know how to get a hold of man and, please do. Thank you. And that wraps up today's episode of the flavors podcast. I hope you enjoyed this Deep dive into the culinary world of Chef Norman Van as much as Did.
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