First Up - The Podcast, Monday 12 December

On today's First Up pod with Anna Thomas - an immunologist says a lack of reliable data means we could be heading into the Christmas period with far more Covid infections than we're aware of; we ask the son of a dairy owner killed in 2014 what he thinks of the government's new initiative to tackle youth crime; and we hear from a woman who knows the ghost, said to haunt the St Bathans Vulcan Hotel. First Up - Voice of the Nathan!