Alright.
On this week's episode, we have a black man and I'm telling you and I say black men, I mean constable black men.
I know, damn heavy.
Can we go with the police somebody called triple zero because mister blackman jar Wenn more like jar Winn. Now, do we're gonna get arrested? Or maybe that's what we want? No, Okay, we need to just delete all that.
Thank you very much, by welcome to First things First, my name is Brooklyn. My pronouns are she and her.
I'm Maddie Miles. My pronouns are he and him. And before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the custodians of the land on which we record and for me today that's the Gaddigel people of the.
Urination and for me it's a roundering people of the cooler nation.
Let's get in, let's get into it.
Oh, we are super excited because today we have a very special guest and we're kicking things off with Police Constable Jarwin Blackman from the Queensland Police Service. He's a part of the new powerful observational documentary series Our Law on NI TV. Please welcome Jarwin. Hey, guys, well, I feel like you know, we're super grateful to be able to speak with you and have you on first things first.
As we know, the relationship between black fathers and the police can be tricky at times, but this observational documentary series allows people alongside Aboriginal police officers to go to the front line and see these relationships and see what happens and unfolds as you are, you know, doing your job as a black fellow police officer in communities. And yeah, thank you so much for being on first things first.
Before I guess we sort of more jump into this conversation, I just wanted to sort of offer you the Mike Jarwin and sort of introduce yourself before we get started. Yeah, so I didn't actually ask who your mob is before.
So on my mother's side, so her father, my grandfather, he's Gora and Gorang, which is from the Bunderberg area there in the Wide Bay Bernard area. My name like, so my mum's mum, she's actually Selina. So her family they were brought over from Nahai to kanakas they were brought over to Kutchurul Lucine a long time ago. And on my father's side, his mob's Walker Walker so that's from also in the kind of White Bay region, but more so South Burnette, Sherburg, Mergan that area one die.
Yeah, deadly, No, I love that.
Well.
I'm I'm a Camillary man, so my family from Tamworth, you know, north west New South Wales.
Firstly, I would love to know what made you become a police officer.
Look, I really just wanted to get out in the community. Before joining the police. I was working in the federal government and you know, I was just working inside a lot. I never got really to get out and you know, be helping people out in the community. So that's kind of what drew me towards that. And I also met another police officer and he was a Murray follower up in Rockampton and you know, he saw me in the PC ice in the gym one time and he come
over and had a yearn with me. And then I think I saw him working out at a pub by night, and yeah, we just got talking and yeah, he kind of said mentioned that, you know, I could should consider joining the police, and that's how I got here.
I want to ask this series our law It's it's in its second series now, is that right, correct?
Yeah, this is the second series.
Now, yeah, did you watch the first series?
Yeah, I seen, I've seen some of the episodes over in Western Australia and I think, you know, the guys, they did a really good job. So when I was presented with the opportunity to do series two, I jumped at it. And that's how I got here.
Now our law obviously, it's it explores the relationship between police and First Nations people. What were some of your favorite moments of shooting you know or being a part of the series.
I think one of my favorite parts is just being able to like really share an insight, you know, into my role as a police officer, you know, what what I do in the community, how I'm received by the community, you know, especially being a black Falla and showing how you know, mob received me because you know, as you know, there the relations between you know, MO and police in the past haven't been the best. So yeah, it kind of gives me an opportunity to showcase why I do what I do.
I guess any sort of frontline worker there's always going to come up with some complexities and some moments. I mean, I watched a bit of the wa one I haven't obviously seen season two yet, but I'm excited to watch. It's only just come out, right.
That's right.
Yeah, on Thursday eight thirty, so they did a double episode, and they'll do a double episode every Thursday throughout this.
Month and on demand.
Yet.
Yeah, I mean, Mattie and I talk about our experiences with and our relationship with the police within our own families, But I mean I want to really kind of talk about the series a little bit more. And I guess going into it, what did you think would come from it? Not in a TV aspect, but I guess what did you want to highlight throughout the series?
With the opportunity, I saw it as a way to kind of show, you know, the positive side of what being you know, Murray and Murray Copper. What that can show, like how I can repair the relationship between you know, mob and the police. We're in a position to you know, influence you know more in the community because we have that same understanding of our heritage. You know, we've experienced the same things. You know, we just have an understanding of culture, you know, even growing up. You know, I
understand where people's frustrations with the police are. You know, I've experienced prejudice and racism myself throughout my life, so you know, we have that connection.
You know, what were your experiences I guess growing up with your relationship with the police.
I never really had too many issues myself, but you know, we'd get stopped in the street as young follows because me and my friends used to skate and we'd just skate around town and that, and you know, we'd go to schools and ride our skateboards through there, and naturally the police see these young kids and so they stop you and they get your details and stuff. But you know, and you're kind of like, oh, we've done nothing wrong.
But being in the job, you understand why why they do those things, just to kind of see who's out in the area in case something happens, you know, be able to help out and things like that.
Yeah, when I was working with child protection Department of Child Protection, my experiences were very different from being one side of it, and you know, having that sort of scared slash fear of child protection and then working in it, I kind of knew and had that feeling of it, and so I sort of changed my perception and it also changed how I work and how I guess I wanted to have more of an impact within those institutions
really and in those departments. Is that kind of how you feel with being and going into being a police officer.
Yeah, so since you know, I became a police officer, you definitely understand like how things operate from outside because there's the community side and they see the police talking to them. But then from a policing perspective, you know, we have reasons why we come out and speak to certain people about certain things. It's just it's not always about someone doing something wrong or yeah, you know we're
trying to find out information. Sometimes we just like to come out just to have a chat and you know, show our presence in a positive way too.
Yeah, of course.
Yes. Well, obviously there's been a tough relationship between First Nations people and police. There's historical context to this. There's you know, many years of injustices, not just from police but from the justice system itself. What do you think is the overall perception or what do you find that's in the community, is the overall perception of police when it comes to First Nation's mob.
Look, so being a black file, I can definitely understand mob's frustration with police. And you know that's going right back to colonization and obviously the role that police played, you know, removing mob from their country, taking into settlements and the things that led to loss of identity, loss
connection with country and things like that. But you know, at the same time, things you know change, and I'm very progressive and I believe that, you know, the police service need, you know, First Nations police officers to put their hand up and represent our people in the service and kind of and you know, any broken connections that have happened in the past and you know, moving into the future, we just have to kind of you know, like I said, we have that understanding of culture, so
we can really benefit by you know, engaging with mob through that. And that's kind of the the benefit of being a First Nations officer.
When you were going through the academy. Is there a much cultural awareness that is given to officers when they're learning about the relationship the existing relationship between the system, police officers and the community.
In the academy, No, to be honest, there, you know, it's more so focused on your training, your face training and things like that. So you know, in my in my own opinion. I honestly believe that there could be some kind of education in that department, like well that's the you know, the porter training, so that's where it could all be started. Yeah.
I mean it's just like, you know, there's obviously a growing knowledge and schools, you know, in reading language and history, but previously to that, there has been no knowledge of you know, when you're studying at school, you're doing First Fleet, and the first Fleet just talks to how Captain Cook came here and you know, didn't really talk about the truth telling. I think there, you know, I agree with you.
I feel like there could be a really great opportunity for a truth telling in teaching our you know, future police officers, whether they are Indigenous or First Nations or whether they're non indigenous, like, they should be taught the same education around the truth telling of the history in order to I guess repair I mean this relationship that we already see as such a conflict in any way.
Yeah, And I think it's so important too because you know, where the police we serve the community, and that's just that's the community all over Queensland, you know, and we've got a lot of remote communities up there in North Queensland, in the far North, in the Cape and that. So you know a lot of young officers that they get
sent up there. So you know, if they've never really kind of been exposed to mob before, they might be living in you know areas down here in the southeast, Well they're going to get a you know, it's going to be a big eye opener when they get up there in the communities. So I guess having that kind of education before going up there it would be really beneficial.
Yeah, well, I find that, like over the years, my relationship, I suppose my perception of the.
Police have changed.
I believe that when I was a younger kid, I saw, you know, frontline workers, especially police officers as you know, the saviors in my life who would come to rescue you know, my family in domestic violence situations. And that was because I had a mum who had you know, terrible relationships with men who would abuse her. And back then when I was a kid, the police seemed to be my safe place. You know. It was the people who I would want to call to stop something happening
at home that was like really horrific. As I became older and I understood the injustices of the system, but also the tricky relationship between police and First Nations community. I did change my perception of how I felt about police and policing, and I think that comes down to the fact that I saw a lot of you know, racial profiling, and I saw a lot of injustices, and I saw a lot of over incarceration of our people.
Do you think that your job as a police officer one of your main aims is to sort of break that cycle of perception. Yeah, well, not even just perception, you know, like having you know, us so overrepresented on the wrong side of the law. I suppose you're on the right side of the law. Is that like one of your aims?
Oh, definitely, you know, Like how do I say so, I get excited when I when I'm talking to more about when I'm at work and there on the job, you know, because there's an opportunity for me because you know, they see me and they obviously know straightaway that I'm a murray. Yeah, and they you know, they I can tell they are kind of thinking, oh, let's go with him, like some kind of trust me out. But you know, yeah, I've had I've had positive kind of positive bit and
negative bit of both. But you know, I look forward to kind of making an impression on there and then and just you know, I talk to them just you know, you know how we talk marra ways. I just you know, and I kind of you know, make them feel a bit more like, a bit more safe kind of so we have I can have a better influence on them.
It works really well. And you know, I've had a few interactions before where my offsiders haven't had as you know, they haven't had as much luck trying to influence basically I suppose people that we've been working with, and just just the fact that you know, I'm an averageal police officer.
It's gone in my favor and I and when I walk away from those jobs, you know, I get I'm excited that I was able to have that connection with them and you know, influence them just you know, because they felt comfortable talking to me.
Yeah, well, it sounds to me like you come from a place of rather than I guess, you know, enforcement, you come from a place of compassion rather than I think from what we know, when people put on that uniform, there is a sense of authority and there's a sense of power. How do you influence like your other peers within your you know, police force, that's what you call it. I'm not too sure, like you're.
Yeah, we're a police service here in credit service.
Yeah, to do the same, like to lead with rather than to lead with authority and power, rather to lead with compassion and care for for anyone really, not just First Nations people, but in general.
No, of course, So you know, look, being one hundred percent honesty, like my workmates, so they're just amazing people. There's not I can honestly say, there's not anyone I work with that don't have the same you know, amount of compassion for people that I do as well. Like,
they're just amazing. So there hasn't really been a time where I've actually kind of had to pull anyone up or kind of you know, tell hey, look, you know, I think we should it might have been more appropriate to do things this way just talking to people because yeah, like I said, everyone's pretty good. Yeah, So I haven't really had any experience yet having to pull up into my colleagues because they're just amazing people to be honest.
Yeah, black fellows have an issue in trusting an institution that always hasn't I suppose been on their side or felt like they've been able to trust. What do you think are some of the things that could get us more towards that line of reconnecting with an institution that has such a tarnished relationship with us.
Look, I guess when I something I can think of in repairing that, you know, that that trust that's been broken. I suppose just more things like from a community policing perspective, just kind of you know, working with the community, you know, not like knowing who the local elders are, like, you know,
they have a big influence on First Nations youth. So I think, you know, just just taking the time to get to know, you know, who the respected elders are in the community, so you know you can kind of when you see those young ones or even not young ones, but like anyone really because you know us my will respect elders. So just knowing that and kind of having I guess basically just being able to engage with them, but also engage with the young people to kind of have influence to to get results.
I suppose obviously the PC of y C had a major impact on young people. I hadn't edge impact on me. I used to go to the piece of y after school, play school, talk to police officers, play some sport, go home at five six, have a feed, watch some TV and go to bed. You know, like that was my after school or even on the weekend. You'd spend hours on a Saturday morning down at the PC y C.
For me.
Little a safe place, you know. Yeah, it was a safe place.
It was somewhere where there was you know, a relationship, a really strong relationship between the police and the young people. Is the PC I see a focus of the police force these days. And if not, did you see that as being something that could come back?
No, look, definitely. You know we're actually I am on the Sunshine Coast, so you know, I grew up out in Naanmbor there, which is on the Sunshine Coast and the Hintland and that's just where the Sunshine Coast PC WISY is and I live very close to that. Yeah, And when I was a young fella, you know, I used to go to Blue Lights, like Brook said, But then they had a lot of like programs like and
the Sergeant there. You know, we had this thing like it was called want to be Deadly it was a touch Carnival and every year we'd have that and bring together the community, place some touch footy and you know other neighboring communities that you have a lot of mod come out in play. So you know, that's just an example of you know, a program that the pc ys provided and it kind of got to bring the community together. And yeah, the pc has got a lot of you know,
good things for youth. That we got a boxing gym at our one there. I did a bit of boxing there actually, so that was good. And then just like you know a lot of other programs. Well in Queensland here we got a program called Project Boo Yard. So
it's like a sixteen week program for youth. It's got they get police mentored, they do things like leadership skills, decision making, resilience training and at the end of that sixteen week course, you know, they have like a little graduation and it's just amazing and it gives these yeah, it gives those young fellows like a real sense of achievement, you know, so and it really helps with that transition from them as young adults, so fourteen to seventeen into men.
So it's just a good example of what the PC why so you can kind.
Of yeah, I mean, Maddie and I have obviously really positive memories of the P Yeah, And it was such a full circle moment when I started working in youth work and was back at my sort of local pcys running programs, and the ones that you talk are very similar, I guess, I guess the you know, I was a kid, so I never really took notice of the relationship between police officers and the center itself. I mean, they were
just there. And then as I sort of got older too, more realize, and then, you know, I've been in sort of compromising positions within my own family experiences where police have had to step in. It never really tarnished my view of police officers because I feel like they were
acting as an intervention really and a responsive thing. But then as I got older and I started getting more educated about the institutions and obviously learning and sort of seeing things on the news and seeing things, you know, within other families and other people's experience, like my family obviously been racially profiled as well, more from security guards rather than police officers, but there have been some very unusual situations now.
Them security guards want to be brown people.
Too, Like what are you talking about?
Like we're the same, same people.
What I'm trying to get at is like, yeah, I see the positive relationships in these centers like grassroots programs, Like you know, you can see it. But I think also, you know, this series Our Law also shines a light on a bigger scale, I think, you know, and having more positive role models like yourself, showing like you are in a position to sort of like show people that you want to repair that relationship.
I guess I suppose it's a way where you can show a different, different light to the job that you do. And I want to know, like, what is it that you want the audience to get out of it?
Oh?
I suppose really just you know, from a policing perspective that you know, you know, we really do care as police, and our job's not just there to arrest, like arrest and charge people. It's so much more than that. That obviously is an aspect of policing, but you know, we're we have such like an important role to play in the community, just like you know, being out there. A lot of the jobs we do, like it might just be talking to people and having a conversation. You know,
we don't just wear one hat. We're not just police officers, you know, we play the role of many different kind of you know, occupations, you know. So, yeah, there's so much more to it, and you know you see that in the series. You know, there's there's a whole range of things we deal with a lot on a daily basis. Domestic violence, mental health, you know, people in christ Is, homeless, things like that. So yeah, you know it's just a good opportunity for myself to showcase and yet that's reflected
in the series, So it's really good. Yeah.
Does being a police officer and being someone who's like, you know, on the other end of the Triple Low Corp. Does it ever make you feel like a superhero.
All the time?
No?
Yeah, Look, it's definitely rewarding when you can walk away from something and you've made a change and you just know that that someone's life is going to be for the better now because you were the person that went there and you know you had that impact on their life. So that is my, I guess superhero moment. Yeah, as far as policing goes.
I love that my I had a partner who was paramedic, and I'm someone who would you know, like, I think that being able to help people, especially the people who are in vulnerable situations, is extremely important in life and no matter what occupation we do. But hearing the stories and being able to, you know, know that when you come home at night and you walk through your door,
you're knowing that you've helped someone. It might you know, be a significant moment in their life where you've saved them. Is like something that I think all frontline workers. I really admire about frontline workers. So yeah, that's a pretty special thing.
I'm not frontline, but I do feel like a bit of a superhero when I'm working with the kid. Yeah, it's deadly, you must still. Yeah, I mean I can imagine all the kids as well, like you know, these centers and like see you rock up being like.
Johan, Oh they love that car.
Yeah, And the women will be like, look at this lovely cop.
Speaking from his own experience.
These women nothing like a man in uniform.
He's up over there, this black man. Look.
We know, we want to thank you so much for coming on. First things first, I mean, we're I'm super grateful for the work that you do. We know it's not easy because of that, you know, existing historical relation between yeah, between mob and and police. But thanks for all the work you do and I'm sure that you feel that reward when you, yeah, when you are in community with people as well.
Yeah.
Thanks, I really appreciate it.
Did you have anything that you wanted to say? I know, sorry, we kind of look.
Yeah, I would just like to add it. You know, if there's any more about there that are thinking of joining the police, like you know, definitely definitely give it
a go. You know, you know, if you think you have what it takes and it's something you might have wanted to do, like, don't be scared, you know, just just to throw your hat in because you know, we need more about there on the front line, you know, serve in the community and like I said, because we have an understanding of culture and things like that, so you know, you'll be in a position to have that influence on mob. So definitely give it a go.
Can I ask a personal question in terms of the training?
This is very interesting. Okay, I'm glad you said. I'm glad you said in terms of the training, then.
I think I am no, you said, I want to ask your personal question, and I was like, where's this going.
No, I can only imagine, right, because I nearly joined the Navy, if I'm being honest. So when I was coming out of high school, I high achiever over here kidding, I was like, Okay, I can either go to university or I can go join the defense force. And look the size of me. I'm five foot two, like, I'm not very big, and I do think I did consider the police because I was like, oh, well, I want to work with youth and I want to work, you know with making generational change, and how else would I
do that? Shut the fuck up, Maddie.
I'm not I'm keeping it together.
Yeah, what is the what? Okaid? Can you talk about what is needed from a training perspective, because I can only imagine it's a matter of physical and psychological.
Like, yeah, look from the training side of things, I mean here in Queensland, you just yeah, finish your twelve you know, better life experience and yeah, just you know, there obviously is the physical and psychological aspect in a medical side of things as well, but you know, there's nothing that's certainly not unachievable, you know, for like, if you don't have any serious health complications or anything like that.
Like other than that, there's it's certainly achievable for anyone, provided that, you know, there's no other issues with other things.
So so is there no heart restrictions?
They might I think it might be five two?
Did you say, okay one, I'm fine. You fifty six centimeters so I'm five one.
You know we'll get over offence, but should be deadly. You'd be deadly.
A part of the mounted group on the horse.
Past, is that the gear that you have to put on itself weighs about ten kilos?
They say, yeah, yeah, I've heard that.
Yeah, And I'm like, I couldn't imagine I've got to like carry boobs around like, let alone ten kilos.
I work with.
I won't with the girl. She's she's probably about your height and you know she gets it done. So I'm sure you could.
I'm sure.
I can see your guns there.
You played football, You're right, I'm good. I'm coming criminals, no time.
Ru Big girls a big girls like tall Mauldy South you know Ireland girls like will run it straighter then I don't care what anyways, Yeah, just a bit of lat Chat to sort of break it up because we got real serious there for a second. Yeah. Anyways, thank you so much.
Do you want to know something?
Just one last thing is today when I went out and see my mum and my sister, my sister said to me, didn't you want to be a police officer? And she reminded me that when I was a young kid, for like a good probably five or six years, I would say that I wanted to be a cop, like
it was my dream job for so long. So so it shifted and I'm obviously not one, But yeah, I think there's something about that occupation that as a kid you sort of have a fleeting moment with and I think most people sort of have that little moment of oh, yeah, I want to be a police officer one day, you know.
And yeah, I think people are attracted to it wanting to help people. You know, they see the lives and the sirens and the ambulance and the paramedics and yeah, yeah, it's all very appealing to young children. So I don't blame you, Maddie.
Yeah, what about your acting career, Jawen, Now that you've been on TV, like, are you considering you know, going into more TV? Sort of from.
TV presenting, you'll take my job.
Although I'm still working. I haven't had any other offers yet, so I'm still holding out for that and maybe I'll get an earlier retirement from the police, but we'll see how we go.
Well, I'm really excited to watch season two of Our Law. The season is already out, came out on May ninth. And where can we watch it?
Yeah?
Absolutely so It's on n I, t B, SBS Thursdays eight thirty, but you can watch it anytime on SBS on demand for free. You just sign up go on their Series two is the one that's just come out obviously, so yeah, go in there and you can watch any episode at any time, So have a watch.
Yeah, thank you so much for coming.
Thank you today.
Thanks for having me you guys, it's been good.
Okay, Joao and black Man jeez, okay, damn boy. Yeah, I was like some weird.
Oh yeah.
Oh on that note, Okay, that's what we have time for today. Thank you so much for listening to First things first, if you love what you hear, leave us a rating and a review, and if you want us to cover anything on the pod, reach out via our socials.
Brooks Handle is at brookdop Loton, Mine is at It's Mattie Mills.
And that was a loose episode.
I'm out, bye bye,