Hey, guys, you're going to be so excited for.
This episode because it was our first ever pod recording in front of a live audience, and we did it at the Apple Store in George Street in Sydney.
It was a part of.
Their Today at Apple series. We'll set the scene for you. We're in the Apple Store in the middle of the city doing the.
Pod in front of a live audience. How crazy is that? And behind us is this giant media war that you could put photos and videos up, so we reference them throughout this episode so you can just imagine them.
Okay, But the whole concept of the Today at Apple session was around storytelling.
And the power of stories.
So we're really hoping you enjoyed this episode because we put a lot of love and effort and time into it.
So enjoy.
Let's go.
Thank you everyone for coming to First Things, first first ever live podcast here at Apple.
We're so thrilled to see you all. I know that.
Kieran did a wonderful acknowledgment, but I just like to share a little bit of our culture when it comes to acknowledgments, and I know that he acknowledged the Gatigil people of the nation, and.
I know that you've probably heard that word gagigel many.
Times, but you probably don't know what it means. It means people of the grass tree. So that's a little bit of our culture that we would like you to take home.
I'm so excited to be here. Oh my god, this is I know, it feels so surreal. Let's jump into and welcomes the first things.
First, you know, we're here because we are so passionate about storytelling and we are two First Nations people who get to use our platform to tell First Nation stories. And we know that we hold a unique position in the media in Australia as to modern day First Nations storytellers.
It is the cornerstone of our culture. Storytelling just holds so much significance for us. Not only obviously is around passing down knowledge, It's about connection to country. It's preserving our identity as First Nations people in this country. And a lot of our storytelling is around healing and resilience
and persistence resistance as well. So you know, we have a lot of strength in our communities and we're so proud to be sharing our stories for all of you today and educating obviously the wider world and the wider.
Generations and our future generations as well.
So talking about the future, Maddie, but we're going to go back to the past a little bit. Okay, Maddie and I have been podcasting for a couple of years now, but we've been sharing our story for pretty much the day that we were born, pretty much right. But our
stories share so many parallels, but so many differences as well. Yeah, can I ask you to share a little bit about your childhood and I guess what that was like growing up, and I guess how storytelling kind of comes into play for your totally.
I definitely feel like Brooke and I were separated the birth. There is something about that is so uncanny about our stories. There are so many parallels. Our experiences really do marry up with each other, but the start of our stories.
Are a little bit different.
You know, I grew up without a lot of storytelling, without a lot of culture in the early days of my childhood. I grew up in the western suburbs of Sydney with a single mum and two brothers. And this follow here on the board, as you can see, holding that incredibly gorgeous little man's name, Little.
Maddie that's my dad.
But when I was young, I was told that my dad had passed away, and I grew up without the connection to culture that part of my identity. And it wasn't until many years later, when I was taken into the care system as a part of foster care, that we actually realized that this man that you see on this board here was actually alive. I grew up with the belief that he had passed away, but he didn't
have a death certificate. So we went on a search for my dad and that's where the connection to my culture, my identity, and the stories from my family that I was missing out on came back into my life. And I really feel like as First Nations people, when we don't have that connection to family, culture, story, there is a big part of ourselves that feels like there's something
that's lost. And so being able to connect with my family back on Gomorroy Country in the northwest corner of New South Wales and reconnect with my dad after all those years was a really beautiful moment in my story. Once I reconnected with him, you know, he told me many stories about my people where we come from the country he grew up on and It was like something that had been missing in my life had been found.
Oh Maddie.
Yeah.
Also, how can you look that good as a young Maddie and still even twenty even more gorgeous.
I mean, look the forehead if you need evidence, the forehead is still the same.
Oh Maddie.
That story is just I guess the gravity of that and the weight of that, you know, little Maddie growing up not thinking that his dad was there and then finding that and then so that, you know, storytelling is about reconnection sometimes, and I think that's really beautiful.
And I know that you know your story you started a little bit different. You know, you had your family around in in your younger days. And I love the story that you tell about the turtle and the totem from when your mum was pregnant with you all the way back there.
Yeah.
So my story again similar to Maddie is, but very different. So growing up in Canarvin on Yemagee Country, I was so blessed to have a family of matriarchs, my mother and my grandmother who are in those photos and they will.
Now look at them.
And I grew up, you know, looking after my siblings and the story around the turtle, which is really significant to totem ship and spirituality for First Nations people, is something that my grandmother really held onto and as a story that I hold onto because it keeps me connected to her. So when my mother was pregnant with me, we grew up on the coast of Wa, so we were on like I think it was in Coral Bay or shot it was an ex mouth.
Actually I talk as if I was alive. Then I was still in my mum's ballet. My mom was.
Pregnant and she was, you know, buoyant in the water, like just swimming. And my grandmother was on the shores of this beautiful white sand, blue water, and she could see these beautiful green sea turtles popping up around my mum taking a little breath of fresh air. And that was like my grandmother gifted me the green sea turtle totem, which is like an animal connection usually when it shows up around pregnancy or when the birth as well. And so I was gifted the animal bow and gara, which
is the green sea turtle. And so throughout it, I've got it tattooed on me. I've got it on my spine of my book somewhere that storytelling for me like I wasn't even born, But that story will carry on, and I'll pass that on down to my daughter, my grandchildren and hopefully you know forever, that story will pass on.
Yeah, and I think you know you've obviously gone through a lot of difficulties in your life in the early days as well, in terms of loss and grief, and that's a huge part of our culture's first nations people and our varience. And I know that you know these photos of your beautiful moum and you'll.
No, so yeah, I probably should have mentioned before that, Yeah, my mother and my grandmother have actually passed on me. I'm down obviously the bottom there, and then my two brothers. We are actually the only life people today. Everyone else has actually unfortunately passed on. And that's I guess a bit of a reality of my life is that I grew up so connected at culture in my starting years and then when I was eleven, I kind of all lost it and it kind of.
Yeah, I was in and out of care.
I was taken and to live with my dad, who he is white and he lived in a different cultural background place, and so I grew up so connected and then kind of got disconnected and then in my adult life had to reconnect and find my way. So yeah, a bit of a different journey we've been on. Yeah, stop looking at me like that.
I always look at her at all because this girl right here, you know, I call on my sister, but she has gone on to do incredible things, you know, and you would know her from the Bachelorette, you know, the first ever queer and first nation's bachelorette the world has ever seen, and the most beautiful. But you know, I look at you in all because you know, you're somebody who isn't afraid to break down barriers and also be vulnerable and share your stories so openly with the country.
You know.
I think it's a really powerful thing that you have the ability to do. And I know that you know, it wasn't just being the bachelorette that was, you know, the first thing for you. There's been many firsts and that's one of the things that we want to do with our careers and our media opportunities is that we want to break down the barriers in the mainstream media and that's what we're doing with our storytelling through the podcast.
You bring up a great point about first and I think for us and for myself, I was the first to in my family to graduate school.
I was the first to go to university.
I was the first to really get like a full time stable job to help support back and give back to my family. And so from a young age I felt a lot of responsibility. But part of the responsibility felt like I wanted to tell stories. I wanted to My mum and my nana didn't really get to live out their life. My nana died when she was fifty two. My mom died when she was thirty four, so very young. And I'm Nelly thirty So I had this obligation in a way to share stories and become the first of
many things. And I'm Maddie you had the same aspirations, right, and like it just goes to show how much they're instilled in us, and how much culture is like a part of us, but how deep those stories run through us.
I don't know where I'm up to.
Well, I'm going to actually just come off the back of that. When you talk talk about, you know, our stories and the power of storytelling. I really believe that in this country, when we are telling stories the First Nation. Stories must be considered, you know, must always be considered when we're telling the story of our country and our national identity.
But you know, oh yes, no stop, I know what it is here, I go come back.
He was given me the biggest rat before this is my brain. He was giving me the biggest rap. He's like, yeah, bachelorette, blah blah. Anyways, I was. Yes, I was the first queer First Nations bachelorette, and I was also a published author, et cetera. But Maddie has done some incredible fast like could you not This man has like not only just broken down barriers, like he is stormed right through them. He is like, no, no, there is no path. I'm just gonna make it myself.
What shame really? Really, So you were.
The first First Nations man person queer man.
I would just not over tick your boxes but pick them off.
On Getaway, Yeah that was you know, I was the first ever indigenous host on Getaway. The show has been on air for thirty two years, and it is a show that you know, tells the story of place and country. And to think that over the thirty two years that that show has been on air, they've never had a First Nations person be a host. I was watching get Away on a Thursday night and I went away and came back to the TV, and I didn't know if the presenter had changed.
Everyone was blonde hair and blue eyes. Not joking.
So I sent an email into Channel nine and I said, Hey, I have an idea for you. Why don't I come in and present you with an opportunity that you know, I feel like is needed in this media landscape, in mainstream media. So this follow as you went in and had a meeting with Channel nine and said, look, you know, I think that there needs to be a First Nations presenter if you're going to be talking about country and place on a show like Getaway.
So that's how I get away.
People think that Channel nine called me up on it and told me that I was amazing and said, hey, do you want the job?
Absolutely not.
No, you went after it, You went for it and you got it.
And as First Nations people, we are constantly having to knock on the doors and we get a lot of no'se.
We get a lot of knockbacks.
But I've always been a bit tenacious in my spirit where it's like, what is the worst that can happen.
They can say no and then you find another way through. You know. But I always say, you know that.
I struggle with this saying you can't be what you can't see, because you can be what you can't see.
Just be the first create it yourself.
You can create it yourself.
And I think, yeah, I feel like now Maddie works at NV, he works in entertainment, he presents he this man inspires me so much because one he's an.
Extrovert and I'm like the opposite I am.
But you inspire people to tell their stories, and through that you inspire me because I feel like you have this ability to draw out what people can't always express and share like I find like in sometimes our podcasts.
Yeah, I might.
Not feel like sharing, but Maddie makes me feel safe and comfortable to do that, and I feel like the world needs to see that. And I'm so excited to be beside you're doing that. But how you do it and the ability that you do it with is just insane.
Well, I think, you know, I always had a passion for storytelling, and that's why I work with NTV because it's a way to elevate the voices of black followers, and I will always do that no matter where I end up in the media, I will always have a connection to community and more. And I love doing entertainment, So I love Black joy, happiness, entertainment. You know, it's a bit of escape from the real world sometimes and being able to elevate the voices of First Nations entertainers
is legit my dream job. So I do get to live out my dream interviewing, you know, mob around the country and telling their stories.
Right.
I've sometimes even feel like podcasting is like work because I have like the most amazing team. I get to rock up. I talk, which I wasn't always good at. Guys actually funny enough. I'll tell you a bit of a yarn and I won't ramble. But when I was in I guess eleven and twelve after losing my mom and my nan, a post traumatic response for me was that I went quiet and I couldn't talk. I actually
went mute. And that's what now, twenty years on, or Nelly just under having the ability to like talk in front of people is just crazy for me, to like insane, Like I've spoken in front of thousands, hundreds of people. I've been on national television. And it still blows my mind that little Brook at one stage when she was eleven and twelve, couldn't even say like, how are you? Like the most words that you could get out of me was hello, goodbye, thank you, please, and sorry, which is kind of sad.
Talk about the Bachelorette, like this was obviously a monumental career. It was incredibly beautiful the way that you opened your season.
Yeah all right. I was waiting for it to trade. I was like, come on, look, how beautiful she is.
So the Bachelorette, you know, you did a welcome to country on your season, which was so beautiful. It was a way to share our culture and share our stories. Tell me about the Bachelorette and like what that meant for you and how you've become this role model because of it.
Well, to rewind time to get to the Bachelorette, I had to do the Bachelor, and the Bachelorette was like a crazy experience where I left it and I left with this amazing platform, but I didn't actually know how to quite use it then because I was working as a youth worker. That's my qualification, Like, that's what I've been working in for the last decade. I'm so passionate around young people and helping young First Nations kids. So the Bachelor was just a bit of a side step.
And then two years after that having to be Bachelorette was insane. But I didn't take the responsibility lightly and nothing that I do I ever take lightly. And you know this, like when I throw myself into it, I'm one hundred and ten percent into it. And so I used this as an opportunity that to storytell, to like show people that First Nations people aren't what Australian media always make us out to be, which is violent and
aggressive and drug addicts. Like it was actually not okay that people thought of us like that, and I wanted to show that we're a culture of love and community and respect. So yeah, being the Bachelorette was a crazy experience, and I just wanted the Welcome to Country to open up that and show that this episode this season was about love, community and also I welcomed anyone like whoever
watched my season. It was a bit different to normal seasons, like it was actually carried out with a lot of acceptance and a lot of love and a lot of queerness. Which I'm so proud of. But coming out of that experience was a bit of a downfall as well, because I also had some trauma happen. My sister passed away, so it wasn't all love and roses at the end, Like I had to deal with grief and I then had to tell my sister's story and that was also very heartbreaking for me.
Huh.
You know, like, I think you just touched on something that is our experience to a t. We have amazing moments in our lives and I'm sure all of us do. And where you have these pinnacle moments, maybe it's in cream, maybe it's in personal life, but then it's always met with like in our experience, it can I feel like when you're on your highest it can always be met with a moment that brings you down, you know, a sad moment in your life.
And that's what you know.
You just had completed this incredible show and on the last few days of filming, your sister passes away.
You know, it's Yeah, it was inspiring in a weird way though, like because.
I felt like.
My sister, yeah, didn't get to live her like childhood or life, and I feel like that's also seeing her grow up was what led me into youth work, and I wanted to show young people, I guess, the life that they can have, full of an abundance of love,
community and happiness and black joy and fun. And I guess like my sister sort of inspires that story in so many ways, because I guess overnight when I went on the show on the Bachelor and then Bachelorette, I became all of a sudden, like an instant role model, I guess, But I didn't have those role models growing up, so I kind of had to like mimic or try and be what I needed when I was younger. And so for me, that was about being honest where I came from being really proud of who I was, using
my story as power, using my vulnerability. I am the most like siokiest person ever, Like I will cry.
One of us has emotions.
He has emotions he just hides.
Late will be in an episode of the podcast and she'll see me starting to get emotional and she's like, let it come.
I welcome, move it on.
But like I have, I thought I had a lot of shame around that. I held a lot of shame about how sensitive I was and how much attachment I had to things. But I think it's a really beautiful thing now, Like I feel like I embrace it and I love it. I'll cry at anything, but I'm like, whatever, it's just tears.
Like, I think vulnerability is actually a superpower of yours. It's something that you do so graciously but also beautifully.
I love when you're vulnerable.
I feel like seeing someone be vulnerable is actually one of the deepest forms of connection and I get to witness.
That with you a lot.
And so, yeah, but I did want to talk about you being vulnerable in your book. I know you're gonna do an excerpt later of the book, which is exciting. But you know, you wrote your story and it was something that you're really passionate about rewriting the narrative, you know, and that power of taking back your story and not you know, being what everyone sees on social media. But this is the real me, the real What was it like that process and was it cathartic?
Well?
I feel like.
When you're thrusted into national television or into the media, it's such a crazy thing. No one prepares you for it, Like, no one really prepares you for it. And obviously I'm very vulnerable in my story and I tell it a lot, but there's no protection.
You know.
I didn't have a lot of protection, and the only person that was protecting me was myself. But I loved from a young age, I really loved educating. I would go to school, I would come back what I had learned at school. I would try and teach my brothers, to the point where my brothers would be like, I'm done hiring schools with you, and I'm like, no, let me be teacher. My brother still has a little bit of a digger me now. But I just loved educating. And when I decided that I was going to write
a book, it wasn't about anyone else. It was actually about me and it was about my family, and it was about reclamation, like reclaiming something that the tabloids like to use, like Brooks Trauma story, Brooks Big Bombshell, Brooks Big Secret, blah blah blah blah blah. It was like so over it. I was like, I'm so sick of people telling my story, so I'm going to tell it myself.
And so I wrote this book. It was my story to put out there and it's like reclaiming my identity, reclaiming my country, and reclaiming my story like to no one can take that away from me.
It's a power move.
Thank you. It was a power move.
Yeah.
When I put out to the world, I was there.
That's the power of storytelling.
Stick this daily Man. And no, they've never written about me ever. Again, they really have it, they really have it.
Well, you know, you've got another book coming I do, which is really exciting. But we also wanted, you know, to share some recommendations of some of the stories outside of our world that we love and that we connect with. Brook tell me about some of the things that you find interesting in terms of storytelling and what would you recommend.
Okay, I feel like the trend of my story is love. My book is called Big Love. I went on the Love Show Reality TV shows.
Would you do another show like a love show? No?
Okay noo? But if there's casting agents, no. I love Ja Shetty And if you don't know Ja Schetty, you should. He's amazing. He's a really great life coach. I look for his guidance in every way. I also love a lot of positivity and I'm sure you do as well, So Ted Lasso, if you've never watched it on Apple TV, you know he always says like be a goldfish, which is like forgetting ten seconds, and I love that. And
he says big curious, not judgmental. When you lead with curiosity, you throw all judgment out of the way.
You've been saying that a lot lately enough, it's really stuck with me. Be curious.
What about you, Maddie.
So I am like a big entertainment for end. You know, I love shiny floor shows. I've always been the person who would go home from school and watch Australian idol, X Factor The Voice. Sometimes I'll even sit at home and pretend I'm in a big red chair and turn around if someone's a good singer.
But I love It's escape for me, you know.
So I love watching music interviews, so you know Apple Music with Zay Low.
I don't know if you know him.
But he's an incredible interviewer and he's able to get really deep with artists and he's an inspiration to me because that's what I do to my day to day job. But I wanted to recommend a couple of well why and actually one in particular a First Nation storyteller who's a rapper and his name's Kobe D and he is such an incredible storyteller. He has an ability to be so poignant with his music and there's an education to his lyrics that I think is so powerful for our country.
So at the moment, I really believe that Australia is having a moment with music and especially First Nations artists. So if you want to learn more about First Nations culture and identity, go and listen to the Mob, Go and listen to Kobe D, listen to Barka Canina. But a book that I wanted to recommend, and speaking of you know Barker and Miss Kanina, you know, women.
Of color inspire me the most.
I feel like I've been so touched by so many incredible matriarchs in my family. But there's a book that I read a few years ago and it was Michelle Obama Becoming, and it was a book that really took me out of I suppose the darkness that I was in at the time, and it really inspired me to find happiness independently outside of anyone. If she can do that from Barack Obama, you know what I mean like she found her independent happiness and you're not relying on other.
People for that validation. Validation.
Yeah, so speaking of you know women of color who are absolutely inspiring.
Ayah, I just had the musk. Well, I'll read a little bit of my book.
Let's do it.
Ah.
The whole goal is to get through this without crying. So this will give you a little bit of insight into my life. So this is up to chapter nine, so it kind of covers a little bit about It was kind of like a full circle, I guess for a brief period of my life. It took on an easy rhythm. With the bachelor behind me and the support of a loving, stable relationship, I started to really hustle
in my career. So won I was working with lots of different organizations, advising and consulting on youth work programs with fin a focus on suicide prevention in First Nations communities. Occasionally, when I would walk into a room full of old white men, the energy in the room sometimes felt a little bit hostile, as if they were thinking, what can
this little black girl teach me? But then I had grown in confidence so much that I knew what I was offering was important and I could help save lives. So I just looked them in the eye and they didn't waver in any of my advice or suggestions, and I think I honestly felt like I'd earned slightly a real respect in that industry. Some really exciting opportunities came my way at this stage. One of the best was being asked by UWA to give a ted X talk.
It's actually out.
There, so if you still want to listen to it, and this is where I was talking about my experiences growing up, and that request was just insane and it completely changed my life. I loved having such a big, engaged audience, and sometimes it was a struggle to see how many people were there, even strangers on the street, and seeing me in a particular way, the girl from the Bachelor with a glamorous easy life. Sometimes I had a bit of an unusual way of thinking about that.
But while I hadn't broadcast the details.
Of my family life and the trauma and hardship I'd suffered growing up, I'd never hidden the toughness of my background as an aboriginal person or shared away from talking about or expressing my queerness and the assumptions about who I was bothered me. One of the other things that bothered me was that some people saw me as a damsel in distress who needed to be saved by Nick
on The Bachelor, and that wasn't true either. So these assumptions meant that a lot of people didn't see the real me, and I wanted to make sure everyone could, especially any young girl or woman who was living with poverty and disadvantage in their lives. I knew how important visibility is in breaking down stereotypes, and now I had an opportunity to talk about my story with more nuance than just headlines in the End to Time news items
and snapshots and soundbites on my Instagram account. I worked with some incredible women from the TEDx unit at the university who coached me over the weeks leading up to the event, and they helped me write my presentation with those girls and young women living with disadvantage firmly in my mind. I talked about my life, how I'd had to negotiate labels all my life, how I firmly believe that if this is possible, to transcend the worst that
life can throw at you. I made sure to talk about the real details some of the darkest points of my life and hope they'd connect with any young person watching, to show them that they could change their own stories and their own narratives. This was one of the most gratifying things I'd ever honestly did, and I still get goosebumps.
Whenever I watch it.
I can see that young woman on stage and still working out who she is. But there is like such a strength at two.
Oh my god, see I'm such a sooky bum.
But just as one part of my life was really taking off, another chapter was coming to an end. Blah blah blah. I broke up with my boyfriend. I'm like, I'm going on about it. We're both heartbroken. It made a decision that, you know, we needed to quit. But through all that chaos, I really needed to get out of the city where I was.
Living and to be alone on country.
But there is something so liberating about the highways stretching out ahead of you and nothing holding you back. Honestly, if you're going through a breakup, go for a road trip. My biggest suggestion. I went to Broom, and when I left Broom a few days later, my carp was just so much for full like if you went to Broom. You know what Broom's like. It's stunning. Just don't go
in the wet season. I took the drive home back to Perth and stopping when I needed to, and there was one place I wanted to visit before I went back to my busy life. I wanted to commune with Mum and Nan and there was only one place for that, which was the Quaba Blowholes and Beach, which is where I was kind of talking about before the Blue Waters, and.
That's kind of like how I pictured my childhood.
Driving up to the park, I stopped at the rangers station to get my permit, and the ranger asked me if I was here alone, glancing through the window of my car, I lied and I said, oh, my boyfriend is coming later today to join me, suddenly realizing in that moment I was very vulnerable and I was a woman on my own heading into an isolated bush to camp overnight. It was pretty flimsy prediction, but it quelled
in uneasy I felt. I drove to the cliff tops where we used to camp with Mum when we were kids, and just as I got there, I honestly felt so much closer to her. I pulled out my tent, set up my camp, and then walked to the best spot along the cliffs where you can gaze down at the blowholes and the ocean stretching out in front of you as far as the eye can see. It was beautiful, and watching the spray from the blowholes glint in the red sun as it started to slide into the horizon.
The ocean sent all around me, the soft breeze on my skin. All I felt was peace. Then I walked the short distance to the white sands of the beach, and as I swam in the water, it felt as if the ocean was washing away all the pain from my breakup with Nick. Immediately I felt strong. I felt more like myself than I had in a long time. Country always grounds me, and water is so central to who I am, who my people are. There on the beach, it felt as if my mum and then could hear
every thought that they were there with me. Taking in the sorrow. I fell and reflecting back to the strength and I hope I knew I had inside me too.
Sorry, I could gather that.
I mean that like that ending, you know, or yeah, being cuddled by country and your mum and Nancy like, it's such a beautiful picture.
So thank you.
I thought I was ram playing a little bit because I was talking about my breakup, but I feel like, yeah, you need context, So there you go.
Hell And that's the power of storyteller.
It really should be on his own show, shouldn't you.
Guys. I know that there are other moments in my book that if I just cannot, like, I will just I will just burst out. But thank you so much for listening. Honestly, guys, it means so much to share that with you.
Thank you so much. Guys. I just want to take this moment to.
Well, we show up, and today you guys actually showed up for us Apple for this great opportunity, our team for this awesome opportunity, and to our followers and people that just popped in and made the time to come to watch me cry kidding. Thank you for listening to our stories. Thank you for taking the time. And I hope you feel the love reciprocated from us. That's really big. Is like a give and pool, pull and push, give and take relationship.
So the best thing about you sometimes is that you say the saying that it's just not the same. It'll be like you'll try and get it out and it's like that's definitely me.
Like I love you, guys, you love me.
I love you.
Thank you so much, you, thank.
You, Thanks guys, thank you.
Oh.
We had such a fun time doing that. We hope you enjoyed listening to that episode.
It was epic. My heart is still racing from that.
We just have to thank Apple again for the opportunity. It was such a great experience for both Brooke and I. But stay tuned because there is more like this to come.
We hope you enjoyed it, guys,