Fire Escape Cast #66

Here we are. It's the fire Escape Cast. Is that I just realized I have no idea of Mike. Does Mike have a We've got Ben Hansen here hands does some Vinnie knockoff thing? Like there's never been a better time to play video games? Everybody, it's fire Escape right now. Thank you for being with us. There's some there's some intro that I feel like was vinniees but everything's viny esque. What has been like? I honestly, well, what was been hes? Like beast Cast intro? How many episodes of

the beast Casts? You do the vining? Like over one hundred? Wait, no, let me guess, I guess honestly it was like I know he did the like, never been a better time for a podcast, Never been a better podcast, the best one of the known universe. You're confusing with a lot of Next Leander stuff right now, but you got it, man, Oh well, never been a better podcast. Well, no,

that's the one I'm on. That's like the beast Cast reunion thing. Check out pass this trivia test hand check out Slider's Patreon if you want to hear that. But I assumed that was a reference to the beast Cast. Never been a better podcast. Yeah it is, but Jesus Christ, yeah, a giant bombed has never been a better time for games. I think was what they'd say, he never did never been a better podcast. I think. I think it was a generic version for the Next Land of Thing.

That's a take on that. It's the spiritual successor where they changed one keyword. Okay, okay, I guess hello, Vinnie, that's look. Ben Hanson's been here five minutes. He brought a giant millipede into the house and I gave him a complain. In Box Full DJ Hero two for PlayStation three, I wrote the millipede through the door like Gena Davis on the sand Verm

and Beetlejuice. I've been thinking I want to watch spooky movies in October, and I realized I haven't seen Beetle Juice since I was a kid, and it terrified me as a kid's specifically when there was like a bridge, a covered bridge, and the face coming off and the covered bridge. I mean, that's just the death scene. But like a little dog does kill them.

Maybe I'm mixing up two things, because I definitely remember a covered bridge, and I remember a part where like they go into a shed and somebody takes like like they're they're like like a face does like a crazy like eyes like text avery cartoon type thing like shed you mean kind? Yeah, there's like an afterlife area where they're trained and they stretch out their face and learn how to haunt. And that's a cool thing. Is that where they're in

the waiting room. Well, Beetle Juice is in the waiting room at the end, but it's I think the same arena of the afterlife as they go in and talk to Juno and she kind of guides them through. Remember she's a smoker and the smoke comes out her neck. Oh right, I feel like I remember that movie in vignettes and and I've seen parts of it and left the room for parts of it, and I watched the cartoon all the time. So like as a kid, it's my favorite. It's my favorite

player to get whacked off in. That's a great one. Oh that's right, this is fire Escape. This hasn't been Mex a lot more whacking off jokes. Oh, just get it all out of your system here, It's fine. What you been holding up holding out? They did see Beetle Juice the musical and you did do it recently. They didn't hear in Minneapolis. Here they they did the whole thing, the whole check out session, and not really so it's like a crowd participation thing. Really off. Yes he

does, and they get a whole Gallagher tarp. It's wonderful. It's only ninety dollars. I'm starting to figure out that the kids today don't get Gallagher references. What's the point of life. I know Gallagher came up like three days ago, I think came up with like Maharty's wedding, and people didn't get who Gallagher was, and I like put it in like he died like a year ago. To be fair to everyone else on earth. I feel like our generation should barely know who Gallagher is. Honestly, I feel like

Chappelle's show did a big boost for us. You know, people about Gallagher. Yeah, that's probably how I learned about Gallagher. Honestly. I remember the comedies. I'm a few years older than you. I remember the Comedy Central stuff. He had like a giant love seat or something behind him, and like I remember thinking he was hilarious just because I was a kid and it was just prop comedy I think as he got older, I think he ventured into some different interests. Episode is a classic. He stormed out,

Oh just Marin like, like's a lot of stuff. Yeah, I'm trying to remember the details, but yeah, he pull on like was he like pull on a conspiracy? Like I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember. But hey, this beatle just musical. Yeah yeah, sorry, whacking off. Yeah, it was good. I enjoyed it. It is a

weird thing. I didn't expect it because I went in completely blind. For like, I don't know how they're gonna adapt this thing, because like the big thing with the movie, if you go back and watch Beetlejuice, I guess it's kind of the classic Sounds of the Lambs thing, or I guess Jaws of just like, oh, Beetlejuice is barely in this Like in your mind you think of the cartoons like Beetle Juice, Wacky Time, but it's like whack off Time. I'm sorry, whack off time. It's Beetlejuice here,

everybody's kid's whack off time. Uh no, So, I mean he's in the movie fifteen percent of the movie, twenty percent of the movie, Like it's not that much, and so it's interesting with the musical. They bring him in from the very beginning. He's like watching the family die in the beginning, right, and so he's kind of spreading it through the entire film. But they do like a couple, do you want to review the Beatle Juice music. They do like some smart ideas, like Lydia's mom is

dead. She's not the Catherine O'Hara character in the music or the musical. She's not. So this follows the movie. This is after the events of the movie. No, no, no, it's like a reimagining of the movie and they just make tweaks like that, but it's it's smart ideas where it's like she wants to leave the house because she's like, I want to go back because Beetlejuice and the fact that ghosts exists means that my mom is trapped in my house, so I want to get out of here. It's

less her being like I hate my family. I want to leave this house. Wait. So it's like a reverse Dracula where it's like Dracula has to be invited in and Beetlejuice lore you can't get out if you're a ghost. Yeah, because remember like that's where the Moon of Saturn comes into play. Well remember the Sandworm, right, I remember that visual. I don't remember what they represent her, what realm they were. I think it's honestly, this is deep cuse I think it's just like in the script it reveals it.

It's technically like Titan, the Moon of Saturn. I think that like if they open the door, it's like a wild planet. Yeah. I'm a big Paul McCartney fan. Wait is that where okay? Because I had like recurring nightmare of I don't know, and I don't know why it preached me out so much of like stepping outside and planets are in the sky, but they are like big moons. Celestial objects are in the sky fucking huge, and it's like that like oh that dread like something is way off here.

You're thinking of the dream from Final Fantasy, the Spirits Within. That's I have seen that a lot. I remember every saying that I don't know if there's like planets in the sky, maybe maybe Saturn's up there. It could be, but that's where the Sandworm lives with all this stuff, but they do. Like the musical, I enjoyed it and like it was h is edgier than I thought because I go into music or whatever, it's like, oh, they're swearing a lot throughout this entire thing. And then like

I loved it. They got me out of the gate. Like the first song, yeah, I think it's the first song. It's like big Beetlejuice intro and he's like, hey, we're at the funeral for Lydia's mom. Everybody, this is different than the movie is. Basically he's a little Deadpool less Becau's breaking this forthea. But I liked it, Like, you know, a couple of minutes into the first song, you know, and the whole song is Hey, everybody, this is a show about death. This

entire show, we're talking about death. If you'ren't comfortable with that, get used to it. It's death. And it's just a good moment where people just leans out to the crowd. He's like, by the way, if any of you die tonight, we're still going on with the show. In the audience that I did just like screaming at an audience like what if you might die? And we don't care. It's cool. You know you mentioned

Deadpool. Were you surprised as well that David Letterman knew who Deadpool was, you know, I mean he's on the movie circuit, right, I mean he's got to like, what does that mean? He's on the movie circuit? Do I need to explain this? No? But like where the last movie The Specters would come in and he would at least have to know the name of a movie been on the Late Show for almost a decade. Why would he need to know any of that? Now? Deadpool one was twenty

sixteen. He was off there by then, right, Yeah, But he was a big fan of the leaked Fox footage for the test, like Snyder cut, guy that hard to release it. You guys, can you imagine anything David Letterman would give less shit about than the Snyder cut? Got? Just the pure derision he would have for that. If Letterman had like a Patreon and all it was was, say fifty bucks a month from you, Dan, and all it was is you could just see what Dave was watching

on a daily basis, you'd basically see his TI vo or whatever. The hell. I don't know if I'd get that much. I don't think he does a lot. I think he follows the news pretty closely. I think he goes to his ranch in Montana or Idaho and rides horses around. He goes, what was he talking about? He went to like Greenland with his

family friends and the Tommy Bahama or whatever his kid's friend's name was. That we're referencing the Strikeforce five podcast that The Late Night hosted and they had Letterman on, So there's recent Letterman talks. He's he is so not public that I know he's got a YouTube channel, but like anytime, it's like a transmission from Dave now and he's still so good. You're usually the one who tells me about like, oh, here's this Neil Brennan podcast, here's you

know, the Strikeforce five thing. Did you did you see that weird video that he released? What it was with ive or it was like he was working like Illinois or something. Yeah, Illinois is like a Hi visa Midwest grocery Yeah yeah, yeah maybe laughter was that moment where he's checking people out of the grocery store and then well before that, he goes over the intercom and I think it's like he goes everybody Parsley's free today? Was it partially

was something like that? Actually watched the video Parsley's free today. Everybody, free Parsley for everybody. No one's buying it, and so he's like scanning people through the checkout line. He's like talking to one ladies, by the way, there's free partially. Are you interested in that? She's like, I'm good, it's literally free's like I know, it's like the old Taco Bell stuff he would do when he would manage the Taco Bell drive through.

Did you see he showed up for some NBA thing and it was Kevin Durant and he was in the crowd and he was like, hello, Dave from the Indiana Indianapolis Gazette. So yeah, Katie, you know why why do people call you that? And he's like, my name is Kevin Durant and he's just have you not seen this? This was from like a year ago, and he asked like several questions that are extremely obviously intentionally stupid. And I saw so many people on like Twitter who didn't know who he was,

like, who's this old idiot or even knew who he was? Kill We've David let him show up an NBA thing? Do not I know who Kevin Durant is? And yeah, I do you wanna do you want to do more? I'm surprised frankly that you haven't done more of that, like real that you haven't done that, done more of that whole real world thing.

Dan, What do you mean? Uh? You know your equivalent of going out and you're gonna work at a grocery store for a day and record it for Bomb or some beener of street comedy type stuff exactly Penrie street comedy a reference for the people. I I love those segments. I always have any like man on the Street type things. You never really have done too much of it? Well we that game in Former, did we? Uh? For those that are just joining me and Hanson more together for a long time.

Uh, and now we're like neighbors. Ish U is it neighbors? If it's like is there a limit like ten minutes away? We we did show floor tours. I feel like that was a similar vibe, like me and Cork or me and Tim going around by the time, more talking and just kind of random people out on the street and stuff. More of kind of like you know, how to with John Wilson style, you know,

I honestly I don't. There were things I think I do very well and there are things I think I suck at and even like here in this context, and you would be the best person ever to talk to you about this. As much as you listen to podcasts and host your own is I'm extremely comfortable reacting to things like being in the like Andy Richter se or Ed McMahon, where it's like I can just kind of go out there people will throw things at me, or I'll see a game happening and I'll have something to

riff on or whatever. But hosting it's so because I've avoided it, like the plague the entire time I've been in the podcasts. So it's like it's this here. I remember when we would have like Nicky Glazer on Giant Bomb. It's like, since I knew her, that was the obvious thing for

me to host that. But like I never wanted to host the BombCast or the Beast Cast or fire Escape like cause I don't I don't know if I'm just a bad conversationalist or what is because like I don't know, like how do you do you always have something in the chamber, Like as you are talking, am I supposed to like just be a gears going trying to figure out like Okay, got this next one ready to fire, but then like if the conversation goes somewhere else, we're sppos to be able to follow it

up with something like I'm supposed to explain conversations to you specific okay, look socially in conversation. I do just find I'm saying like hosting and things like that. I think the challenge is it's tough to host something if the main thrust is how do windows work? You know? Okay, it's at the main threat of this podcast. No, but you know, you know your sticks? Whoa it's a well you can go back to yeah yeah, yeah, but then that's a good. That's a good you know, backup guitar.

That's not a lead guitarist type of move. I think to constant derail things, you know, I think that would be unlistened. I think it's borderline unlistenable when I do it now. I think I've seen reddit. I think as a host, though, there is a there's too much responsibility in terms of like having to keep the train rolling, not even like on the tracks, because like I show like this, there's not really tracks. But

I feel like if the conversation ends. I have to be the one like if we stop talking, I have to say something, what are you doing? This is an epiphany with the hell wait a minute. This is why I've avoided it because I don't know how to do it. You don't know how to have something else to say. It seems hard like okay, okay, here's here's okay. The honest answer is no, I'm scared of it

too, and I've been doing it a lot. But I think a secret if you're not that smart or good at talking, like one of those renaky radio fellas, you just have notes. I just have notes. I do that thousand things, Like I It scares me to my cords. We imagine doing a podcast without notes of having like oh, here's a specific thing that I wrote to him, will playing this game that I can bring up.

I think that without my game notes for sure. Yeah. Yeah, So it's just it's basically I think I think part of it might be because like, okay, so I remember back in the day, we would do the late night Giant Bomb shows and I would talk to Gerson about like he would do those interviews, Yeah, and he would go in with no notes and impress with like couches full of six people, one after another after another after another. And now Grub's doing it and I've talked to him about it too.

Yeah, and it's a similar thing of like they say, it's the you have to be able to kind of like listen with one ear and then and be thinking of the next question in the other. And I think so that requires like two parts of your brain. Meanwhile, if I'm interviewing someone or if I'm in a host chair, yeah, i feel like ninety plus percent of my brain is up in my head about like anxiety, and so it's like with that much ticking up, it's like I'll never forget. I

think you were the one filming it. You must have been Randy Pitchford. We went down for Borderlands too, and it's I think it went up on the site and it's got to be the worst interview of all time. I remember watching it being like, oh my god, if I didn't know who I was, I would think I didn't. It's just the worst interviewer ever. Yeah, because it was likely. I've written down ten questions and all I'm thinking about is like I just need to say these all and look and

not have like not me visibly panicky. You know, Yeah, I really love doing interviews, and I've done so many at this point that you eventually

get over that hurdle. I think of just it stresses me out when I watch other people interview anybody, not just you know, interviewing game developers and stuff, and you can see, you can see that all they're thinking about is their next question, and so like I always try and keep it a good rule of thumb of like, you know, map out all your questions for the interview and all that stuff and then get rid of the bottom half

that you don't want and just remind yourself ask follow up questions because those interesting things you can get into conversationally an interview is going to be a follow up question, like what did you mean by that? Especially when you're going through a translator for a Japanese interview. Oh, normally a translation is always a

little bit wonky. So giving them a second chance to be like when you said, this is this kind of like this and they go, oh no, no, it's like this, and that's where the meat of the whole thing is. Plus, it just is a nice affirming thing for the person being interviewed to be like, oh, I'm actually being listened to instead.

It would be so uncomfortable to be interviewed. I've been interviewed a couple times in my life, but like even that, you can feel that the person is like they're going down a list here, and so you're going to naturally get a little more cloistered up and be less engaged in the conversation or whatever. It's one of the things I've found fascinating about that Strikeforce five podcasts is that, like Colbert talking about like they were talking about like guests that don't

really give you much, you know, they're not telling that. They kept bringing up Robert de Niro. Yeah, and Colbert said like, oh yeah, you know, normally you'll have like the five questions plan that you want to ask them, and then someone like a de Niro, you will be through the first five and forty five seconds and how are we filling ten minutes now? And who I know they all see was like, hey, big

get we got Robert de Niro for the first episode of our show. I mean, I guess if you're flipping through the channels, you might be like, sure, I'll watch a de Niro thing, but I don't think anyone's like, oh, this DeNiro interview, like you know, it just it

takes a real big name to really turn ahead. I feel like in that arena, so the idea of like, well, look he sucks as an interviewee, but it's Robert de Niro, like that is just it's a fool's Errand I feel like I think the sweet spot was like remember like Letterman with

his shows, he would have Bill Murray on as the first guest. And Bill Murray, especially at the time he had him on, was like one of the biggest stars in the world and especially in comedy, and also would come with like a bit, he would have a whole like he would be

doing a bit by the time he like came out the curtain. I feel like like Norm was I think the best talk show host of all time, our talk show guest of all time, but he wasn't like he was kind of niche like he wasn't pulling a numbers the way like you know, Bill Murray was in the ratings, which, by the way, I'm sure you've noticed this too, because you and I have like I don't want to stick with that thought host, but can I raise my host hand? Yeah,

yeah, yeah, A couple of people listening to this. Where's Mike and Mary say, I'm learning from the best here. Well, I think we said it last week Mike got married. Uh me, Now I'm confused. All Oh my goodness. No, we were all there. We're all in the wedding party. Jake was the best man. Mary was in the wedding party. I officiated. We were in New York City. Uh, the gaze of the Statue of Liberty right at I texted texted my dad because Mike described the venue as like, oh, you know, it's uh they say

about this place. It's where the Statue of Liberty as she looks back across the water towards France. That's you know, her eyeline crosses this this venue. And I texted my dad that, knowing he would hate that. And he goes like, oh, my weddings were in the view of an Arby's. That's that's all right, man. He listens to the show, right, you want to see that. I don't think so anymore. I think it's no. I don't think he does anymore. No, he's not.

I think everything's kind of a to do uh for me. You know, they tell you that he dropped off his no, but I could tell because there was a point where he was he was frequently referencing it and uh, and then it kind of stopped. So here, okay, father, if you're I don't know why I'm looking at the camera, he's definitely not. He doesn't know what a patreon is. It'll give my virus. All right. Here's the code phrase that you can text me if you're listening to this

episode. It's uh, his coconut gun can fire and spurts. Okay, if you text me that, I know he's listening. All right, and we welcome all jokes about coconut guns and spurts. You can go to me coconut a picture of a coconut. I want Mike and Mary to share the full wedding story and stuff. But uh, is there an MVP of the wedding for you? Give me one one little tidbit. Uh. Probably a Mike and his uh, his his wife. I don't know if you said her name on here, So said Mike and the man. They're the VIPs.

What a school they were. They were all very lovely. I was very nervous about the speech, but then we did like a wedding party bar night the night before, and I met everyone and the people I hadn't met at the bachelor party stuff, and I was like, ah, this is a good crew. I'll be I'll be okay. Yeah. How many jokes were in the speech? I would say straight up jokes, like two or two parts where I knew it was like pause for laughter, you know. I had like two of those. I would say, yeah, you feel

good about it? Yeah. I was nervous as hell leading up to it. I was trying to do that, you know, that that line of like Okay, I want to have enough like drinks to be loose beforehand, but like you don't want to be like sloppy up there, and that's kind of this is how I done it to my sisters. I had Thames and everything, so did it the same way. Yeah, And once they came up, and as soon as I started talking, I was like, all right, I can tell like the body, like the heart rate, the

breath of the big kind of red alert stuff wasn't really happening. I was like, I got this, and I think I like killed it better than I did during any of my like run through myself. So yeah, I forgot about it. The best thing in the world is I gave a best man's speech at my friend Rory's wedding, and another friend told me maybe they

were lying just to make me feel good, but they said. They're in the bathroom afterwards, and there's some old timer at the urinal and I guess he was talking to some other guy and alys like, boy, that was the best best man speech I've ever heard in my life. So old timer said that, like just he was just talking. Yeah, and this my friend overheard him and then relate that to me. Oh so it wasn't even like to you, it was just like yeah, yeah, goodness, that's

ittle sip of the cap. It's fun to do it. It is really fun and to have a little like how often do you just sit down and focus on other than the writers out there? You know, but sit down, just focus like all right, I'm just gonna write a little speech and I'm going to try and make it fun and heart felt. Like I don't know, I don't really write that often for like, this is a mission that I want to just hone this script, you know, like that process.

I don't really do that much in my life. I always found the way I write like those speeches and also what are you looking for? He was looking for something looking at the swarm of millipeds calling up. I look worried about that. Now. I was looking for a comfortable place to put my feet. But thank you, that's a good host to make sure my

feet are cozy. That's right. I find that the way I've always written is just very fast and not a lot of thought in like, not in a bad way, not like I'm not thinking about this, It's like I always care. But like every game review I ever wrote, every cover story I ever wrote, Like whenever we would go to these cover story trips for Game Informer, Yeah, it drove me. It has always driven me nets to have anything on a to do list, you know, like that that

it'dsay, Oh, once I get back, i'll do this whatever. So I think every cover story I wrote, I did, like in the hotel or finishing up on the flight home. Because if you ever had do you ever have a cover story, You're like, I think that's well written or is just gona like this is functional getting out the door, It's good. I took pride in my writing. I did, like, what do you think was the best one? I don't remember the contents of any of them.

I remember my first one was saying for three and so we were on that trip together, and I remember you just started Yeah. Yeah. That was my third trip, yeah, fourth maybe yeah, yeah. We drove in one of the few ones we drove down, you and me and me and Cork played a GameCube with a flip up screen in the back seats all the two. Yes, yes, I remember that one. I probably put a little more. I mean, I don't mean to say that I didn't

put care into any writing. It's just that I always wrote very very fast after doing so much of it that I could always just write and put it out there, and like it was never sloppy when I turned it in. There was never like a ton of like you know, Joe wouldn't have to like cover the page of the red or anything like that. But I do remember Saints being like, all right, this is my first cover story. I want to do more of these. I want to get promoted, and

I want all this stuff. So like, I probably put the most kind of thought. And I mean it's sitting over there, I haven't read it whatever, but there's no way that's interesting, isn't oh good, okay, all right, yeah, well Dan's gonna go find his issue. It's handy that it's just right off camera. It's really no, that's that's super impressive.

Love it. Let's see the volition trip oh writing. I was gonna say, yeah, like it's kind of a similar thing where every year now for like seven years running, for Thanksgiving, we do a thing where we write jokes about the gaming industry. And so it started as like Jeff Cork and Jeff Marchiafava and I and then eventually Leo Vader is brought in. So at mid Max we're gonna be doing it. So like throughout the year, I'm writing little jokes as if it's like you know, late show monologue I

clips of this. Yeah, but that's like, you know, as somebody who writes very rarely other than Patreon posts and tweets and nonsense like that, Like it is fun just to have like, oh, constantly refining these jokes. I mean they're all like four out of ten jokes. But just how often do you write like a late night style joke? You know, I've never I've even been like a joke guy, you know, I noticed I think I can be funny, but I've never like written or told jokes for

e sure, sure, real quick. I laughed because if you had to guess the headline of Andy McNamara's letter from the Editor for this month, which is what yours is, issue two sixteen, I guess we didn't put that. I'm guessing this was like April twenty ten or something. No, it would have been early twenty eleven. Okay, let's see uh Nintendo's next gen Blunder question mark attending my own funeral. The weird thing is every letter from

the editor was about his He thought it was his will and testament. No one told him that it's a different thing. Let's say, I'll just read the last paragraph of Andy's thing. I don't think Triple A super releases are going away anytime soon. But remember, there are a lot more moms spending their afternoon playing whatever ville game they love instead of watching Oprah. Then there

are core gamers buying the next big thing. If you want the core games to keep coming, show the industry you care by throwing a sport behind elite blockbusters and not just first person shooters. I know some couldn't live without them. Some of the dicecisions make me feel like I was attending my own funeral. Okay, I mean it's interesting kind of time and play stuff because that was before you know, Next Gen came around, and there was a lot

of fear. I mean that generation in particularly going into like are people just going to be into their you know, social games, Facebook games, Farmville and Stuff's gonna be playing iPhone games and no one's gonna be playing Triple A games. Then that generation piece four Xbox or PS four such a juggernaut that was like, all right, we're good. Yeah, I remember developers talking about that a lot. Yeah, all right, I'll read a sidebar that

I did here, Okay for the final one. Yeah, yeah, Drawing the line was the subhead of the Okay, with so many brazenly juvenile opportunities, where does the team draw the line of decency? In Saints Row the third quote, it's like defining porn. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. Isn't that like a famous like a judge said that or something once? Like? Yeah, says senior producer Greg Donovan.

Not every crazy weapon idea that gets thrown out at meetings ends up being used with some ideas, we're like, that's not over the top, even we know that's distasteful, to the point where I don't even want to tell you what the ideas were. Put it that way. Oh after prying by me, eh, that's me, Volition revealed one rejected idea, the fart and a jar. As the name implies, this weapon would consist of a

concentrated blast of flatulence contained within a glass jar. After throwing it at a group of enemies, they become so nauseating and disgusted that they'd vomit all over the place rather than engaging you in combat. Some members of the team loved the idea, but others weren't so keen on a flying fart bomb, and the idea was scrapped until I pride with my journalism and they fucking put it

in. How does that make you feel? Honestly, I don't think I have a lot of direct contributions to like a thing that was seen in a video game, and I think that's appropriate. And I like the fact that, yes, the fart and the jar, that's you. Thank me for

that, and please do please demand yes let me. Also, that was a weird trip because I remember we were out for breakfast, and then you know, the big thing one of the things that we kept talking about is in sanstor three, you can like just go up and punch pedestrians and the nuts on the street. Yeah. Yeah, it's like R three or L

three or something like that. Yeah. And so I remember being out at breakfast with t HQ and and folks and bringing up like, oh, I mean, that's that's all you need to show, like to set the tone of your game, like that is that is it? That's like people are hooked if they just see that. Uh. And then that turned into because of that conversation with that breakfast, that turned into the revealed trailer for Sans

for of the third. Do you remember where it's like a big build up of like Volition dh CO presents It's a huge music build up the punch the nuts and stands for the third And it was like that was the biggest impact I feel like I've ever had I know of. I'm sure it is on like a game or game marketing is like, oh that Literally the way the game was revealed was spun out of that conversation that we had over breakfast. That was that was weird. You should get royalties from Saints Row. Yeah,

they really should. They're in a good spot, right, they are just straight up shut down, right Volicia. Yeah yeah, I got holes too. That's not even a thing anymore. Yeah, okay, Jesus, okay, what do you think the game over is in this issue? Do you explain what the game over is? Yes, it's the last page. So it's basically just like, oh, it's a fun little thing. It's a trivia things. It's always just a little light thing. Oh Jesus, okay, I just looked at it. All right, let's see. This

is before Portal two came out. Maybe it's hyping up for Portal two, so it's gonna be like our favorite portals and games or something. Nope, it's things you didn't know about Randy Pittsford Number one hit, Well, come on, what do you got? What do you got? Number one was early career moves? Oh? Did you know he was a magician? Weird? Did you know he worked at the Magic Castle in Hollywood? That wallflower? You know the Duke Nukem Forever story with me and Andy? Right,

you went to the hotel and played it. Okay, he just watched us the entire time. Yeah, yeah, to be fair, I heard you tell that story somewhere recently about that. My memory of it was you played like the first half of the game or something pretty sure bladed to complete. I remember elseod you coming back and You're like, yeah, it was fun. But now I feel like your virgion of the story is like it was so weird. He was looking at me the whole time, but it was

more like casual. Him and Andy were shooting the shit and you were just playing it off. It wasn't like eight hours of white knuckling it. It was just that constant pressure for like that game is constantly shotgun blasting attempts at humor at you, right, And like I wasn't like the whole time just like hating the game. It was like it's a fucking Duke Nukem game, Like what do you expect? You know, But like it's just the fact

that one of the guys associated with the game is watching. Anytime someone's watching you and trying to see if you're gonna laugh at something, I feel like you can't just have a genuine reaction to it, you know. So it was just like six to eight hours. It's like, Okay, did I laugh enough of that? Did I? You know? Yeah? And then he taught you how to ride a segue? He didn't, he did, uh, generous, that was a different We worked with him a decent amount.

Yeah, well border Wliams two. Were you on the Bloodborne trip? Not Bloodborne? What's their thing? Battle Borne? Yea, you were on the battle Born. No, that was the last one when I was leaving. That was the next issue that was being Oh interesting that in summer twenty fourteen. Yeah, I went back for battle Born, which was interesting in a bunch of different ways. But yeah, so it was the Borderlinees two

trip I think where he was teaching to write the segue. Yeah, yes, yeah, sus and Marcia Faba out of the the We've been on a bunch of trips together work wise and everything. But the way people brought up oh is it imron? I think first part up like by the way you guys you game in former Weirdos, you say the phrase cover story trip like it's a common parlance. It is a weird combination. I cover story trip, cover story. I got some ship for that when I first went to

Giant Bomb, and I would say that all the time. I, Oh, yeah, we're on the cover story trip for Infamous or whatever people. Is it okay? Yes? So yes, ever the idea every month I do a cover story and we fly out of the studio ben to the video stuff. I wrote that thing, uh or in you know, the medical trip did all the work out of all the was there Tim your drunk button around Japan? It was on the way out and I knew it and I enjoyed that. So h out of the ones we went on work wise,

did you have a favorite one? I went on? I went on eighty dance. You gotta help me remember which ones you were on. That's probably easier to try and narrow it down. I mean a lot of Saints row did you put no I was the video guy in bullet Storm? Yeah, yeah, they're all there. Yeah, Infamous second Son because they put me in Reeves in it, right, But then Reeves wasn't in the game, but you well, there was an attempt to get both of us taken out

of the game, but I was still in there. Take that Lawyer's Infamous Saints. I feel like I wrote like six or seven oh advanced warfare that. Yeah, we always always just thinking about that Advanced Warfare trip of the day because I still have the coin. Do you remember this? It's where do you say that? Uh, I'll tell you off camera something like that.

This is great for the listeners now, I just remember. It was like a big moment of like Sledgehammer and Michael Condrey over there, the co founder of Sledgehammer, he like brought us into the office and he's like, hey, we have a Sledgehammer Coin of Excellence and we give it to employees who are really going above and beyond. And I really want to thank you all. I think you three just had such a great job on this trip.

I think you deserve this coin. It was just, you know, it's a lot of kissing press ass during these trips and stuff like that, which is always brutally uncomfortable. Yeah, but that was the time. We're like, look, we were in your studio for a day and a half and we filmed a couple of interviews with you talking about vin Space. He's not like the way you asked those questions Dan about the gunplay. You diserve mobility. You deserve this coin more than some developer crunching for four years.

Like Okay, this feels terrible. Do you think on those trips, like because there was so much wining and dining and all that stuff when we were just like you know, twenty five, twenty six, Like now I feel like it's it's painfully obvious that you know it. We were an extension of the marketing absolutely. I mean what, yeah, yeah, we know.

I think yeah, I would think. I mean, did you know that when you started, when we were doing these cover story trips that we just clearly it doesn't take long to figure out, like, Okay, here is PR's mission, Here is our mission. Where do we meet in the middle? Where can we push to try and get more interesting content? And they're going to try and water everything down as much as they can to be like Okay, we're lining you up with this developer, but please focus on this

topic. And it's like, okay, well we're gonna look at the developers pass and see else they've worked on and try to ask some more interesting, broader questions like i'd always I got better and better at it throughout the nine years I was there, but like you know, always trying to think of like what hopefully these videos can live on a little bit and be interesting and it's not just a matter of like all right, we put it up there, and then Neo gaff It gets the highlights of like, oh, here's

the new details about the game, and it's just like spoiled milk, you know, once the game comes out, it's like, Okay, if we can do something a little smarter, a little bit bigger, hopefully, ideally these videos will have some insight into the development process. You were ambitious about that from day one, because I do remember that Saints trip. I remember, you know, like if you did you know, six videos about like oh you know, here's the factions in Saints Row the Third or whatever.

Yeah, you know that's going to come and go and not be super evergreen, right, but like I remember on that you went super out of your way to make that whole like hour plus long history of Volition documentary. Yeah, and like going deep and like talking about Summoner and the game. They give us footage for like several canceled games and it commercials with like like Will Smith playing dissent and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was funny because it's like, man, why being so open with all this stuff?

And we read a bunch of folks, But the main reason was, like Mike Kulas, who was the president of Volition. He was retiring. He eventually went back to Volos, which is weird, but he was retiring so he was like in a really nostalgic mood. So he's like, yeah, I'll happily unpack everything. Let's talk about not the Underground was the name of it, where you're like You're a London thief. Was a game that Volition was working on on PS two that they give us a bunch of footage.

Oh, it never came out. And then there was like Tube Racer. There was some racing game also on PS two they were making that was that was funky, but listen was really cool. Like even on their own YouTube channel they upload a bunch of footage of them playing a sansreal game for the PSP that they came out. Yeah, I loved how open they were. I do have the cover story looks here, so it probably okay. Borderlanes two and I no I was did I write or did jeffam I was on

that trip. Yeah, going on the trip. I think I wrote the borderlines too. I could be wrong. Sure, South Barks took a truth of course. It was a whole journey Yep, it's just fun to look at the covers. I mean, this is exactly my sweet spot of stupid nostalgis. So I apologizesverybody looking at covers and being like, just remembering the editors that I traveled across the world with, for it was always you. You went on every one of them, right, Eventually Mojaic went on some,

Jason went on a few, A Striker went on a few. I don't think Jason went on any. He never went on any cover story trips, I don't think so. I think Wade was the first, and then Leo went on a couple. Okay, yeah, Jason was very posted like studio, Yeah, replay and test Chamber and all that stuff. Yeah, well we got to Devil's Cartel, Army of Two, right of course.

Yeah this is jumping ahead a little bit. But of course Fuse. Oh yeah, Jesus going to Insomniac. But wasn't that one of the ones where we had like four different covers though, or did we just straight up to a Fuse cover? It's I remember thinking it didn't it wasn't a real cover story. Yeah it was. Well, this was the thing that you do, right, if it's like Okay, we have this opportunity for this game, but it's I don't know if it's really there's already a lot of info

about it out there type of thing. So yeah, this was technically five under the radar games worth watching, starring Fuse from Insomniac, a game which I bought not too long ago on three sixty. You know, like, I do want to do a co op stream of it at sometime, I think be fun. I had to do co op for the review because I reviewed that. Yeah, and I remember just sitting in the meeting room playing

that and it's our ideas there. But anyway, yeah, yeah, second son for Infamous, that whole thing, but I would know you that was for you. That was before my time too. Yeah, and then a bunch of Call of Duties. We did Ghosts, We did Ghosts, we did Advance Warfare. Yeah, my like a solid five. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote the Fortnite one that was twenty fourteen. Yeah, that was. I think about that one a lot because that that was a really wild like what we saw and what it became. And we played like a weird

capture the Flag mode that wasn't in the game with the Unicorn. It was like a protect the unicorn, like build a ford around it. Yeah. Yeah, it was a weird time for weird time for sure, free to play game on the cover of Game Informer, you know it's yeah, it was kind of a nice I remember Andrews really proud of that. It is nice to like, you know, just proof that like GameStop isn't choosing these

covers, like why would GameStop allow that after freaking choosing these things? And that was always the fight of the public perception of like you know which I mean, look, we've both been very open about our thoughts on GameStop is a company and all that stuff, and yeah, that was never, thankfully a thing I had to deal with. Sounds like heart the end, you had to deal with them a lot more or or there was a presence that that I never even felt the presence of a game Stop person. I've said,

people who like improved my expenses. I didn't know anyone there, Like yeah, I feel like by the end there was like doomsday situations going on, and like, yeah, I mean the two months I stayed there after the layoffs, then I was like, yeah, this is a little more I'm in present, but it's just because you know, we have meetings with him and stuff, and who knows what they're doing now, you know who's the current CEO, like Vina the Ferbye or something. What's his ran Cohen?

Yeah? He chewy. Yeah, dog food is his business and playing games is his business. Uh yeah, I just go ahead and I don't know what he's up to now, but if you just want to cruise his Twitter account, you'll get a good flavor for this. It's it's just a lot of elon musk want to be like okay, tweet out the Wikipedia article for sixty nine. Its like, okay, cool CEO, love it, thank you. Okay. I had some in this room a week or two

ago. I had three dudes that work in finance. It was like an old friend from Kansas from college who went into like investing and stuff like that, and investing friends had seen him in a decade, and he said he was gonna be in Minneapolis. So we went to brewery, came back here and just like it's one of those things where none of these guys played video games, none of them no wrestling, so like I have nothing to talk

about, you know. So it's like it was they were all very nice, but like they I was just asking questions about financing and investing and stuff, and Dan then yeah and me. Then when the conversation slowed down, were you thinking I'm gonna have to ask something else? Was there are no microphones? It was fine, but I think they were they were trying to connect with me and the obvious game stuff, and they started asking about the

game stop stock and things like that. But then Ryan Cohen came up, and they there was like an air of reverence from these folks about it. Well, he's a genius. He'd made GameStop stock go skyrocketing. Do you I do like that? Again? I don't. I couldn't point this guy out in a police lineup. How muchly you'll have to someday, Oh my goodness. Uh. In general, how much do you think is how many

of them the billionaire millionaire super finance dudents or whatever. How much how many of them do you think are due to them being actually except good or smart at things interesting? And how many are just they knew the right people or time, or got a golden parachute or yeah we're saying game stop people, No, I mean we could do that, or just in general, in general people in millionaire, billionaire, very rich people like Richard Branson. Yeah,

it sounds like he has some good ideas. He seems like as first the billionaires go sober. I don't. I don't know a lot about him, but any of the it seems like a guy that likes going to space and serving and ship. Yeah yeah, imagining him on a boat with his shirt off. Yeah. I feel like the general vibe around billionaires is negative. Yeah. Yeah, But in terms of billionaires I think Richard Branson are the other ones I can think of. He seems all right. I don't.

I don't think he's all right. I don't even one of every billionaire is per eval. I think there's a case he can make for it. I think it's interesting, interesting discussion point. So I don't want to defend any of them, really, but uh, okay, how many deserve the money? Is that a weird way to put in exceptionally good at what they do or exceptionally smart, Like it's like, okay, this makes sense that person should be like a super millionaire, a billionaire. Mmm, like do

you think over fifty percent? No, over twenty five percent, fifteen percent, fifteen I always think of like Kurt Vonagutt had a had a bit talking about just kind of wealth and family wealth and all that stuff. And I remember, I'm gonna put it much less politically than he put it, but he's like, oh, just certain families find the money river and then this's been the rest of their lives, not telling anybody where the money river is.

And it was just like a nice analogyes, like Okay, we have endless stream of money and now we'll just hoard it in this family and it'll be the end of it. I heard someone while I was in New York say the phrase, and I don't know if they were kidding, and I kind of think they weren't. They said that they something about their family and

where their family worked, where their parents worked or whatever. And this person joked, my family hasn't worked since the nineteen twenties, and I thought, like, God, I bet that's a I bet that happens where It's like if you were just like some dude who found a bunch of oil and the Deadwood times or whatever, it's just like, all right, we don't the only way that's acceptful if if tack two, the only way dan that's acceptable,

is it if it was Lady Liberty saying that to you. Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness, Yes, what is that ass hat's name? Who come on? Millionaires? What realm of gamesome on? That ass elon musk clothes? What Sam Bankman Freed? Oh that. I go to the birds pretty frequently and I love every day. This week it's been like a different headline of like, ah, here's Sam Bankman Freed's girlfriend and she says he sucks. And oh, here's his best friend and he says that this

guy sucks. I don't even know what. They live, some finance crypto thing or whatever, some scam, and it's just like literally ever's been like yeah, this dude's always fucking sucked. Yeah. Yeah, well I'm here to defend them. He's a good friend to you. That's he's a great magician. Uh no, yeah. I feel like I was kind of in the same camp, like, oh, I know he opened some crypto thing

and then it all was a bust. Yeah yeah, YadA. But Michael Lewis, who wrote a bunch of books, you know, Moneyball, like the Big Short Guy. Yeah, okay, I think so pretty sure, buch of smart books. Sure that make great movies, Oh uh, Blindside, stuff like that. But he had he wrote a new book that was all about that bankman freed. In my fam bankman Freed sounds right, We're just gonna say it, and if it's not right and crazy hair wild Man, yeah yeah, and so but it was. There's like a thirty minute,

sixty minutes piece about they shouldn't be able to do that. What's it? Thirty minutes, sixty minutes. It is weird to say, yeah, you're right. I don't even know why I watched it anyways, videos with Michaelwis talking about writing a book about this guy and what a fascinating saga was, and I was like, I don't know if I want to watch it,

and I'm so glad I did because it's it's up your rally. I think you should watch this because michae Lewis is like, yeah, I went for a long walk with this kid right at the start of his whole journey, and he's like, here's my vision. You know, he's a socially awkward guy, and he's like, I just want to make billions of dollars and then give it all away just to help with a bunch of people like it's pure said that Philanthrope. Yeah, yeah, that was the idea.

And so this was like as he was starting to rise in the ranks, and so michae Lewis, he's just, you know the way he tells us stories. He's like, well, I'm going to be by your side writing a book, and if I can just be there along for this entire journey,

I want to be there. And he's like, yeah, absolutely, So Michael Lewis was just there for this entire saga of this guy going from like you know, he was working at some investment firm in New York and then started this whole crypto thing YadA, YadA, YadA, but I forget the exact number is ridiculous. It was like within three months he went from like a normal salary to having twenty two billion dollars geez. And he didn't

come from money or anything. He was just like, sure, there's a little bit of money river stuff happening there in the investments seen in New York for a little bit or whatever. And so like it's interesting just hearing him talk about Michael Lowis talk about interviewing him about just like how many people come out of the Woodwork that would just want to hang out with you all the time, Like all the celebrities that are just like, hey, we've always

been best Bud me and Tom Brady. Tom Brady is actually interested in my ideas all this stuff. And then when you know, after they put the name on the stadium and a bunch of stuff in the entire crypto bank collapses or exchange is really better way to put it right, and then just how

all the contact dried up. Everyone's Oh, I've always hate them. I never wanted anything to do with them, you know, But it's fascinating just to see an outsider's perspective on seeing this kid who can't really manage social relationships very well trying to deal with being twenty two billion dollars richer overnight and what

that does to you. It's a fascinating little saga. I mean, I feel like that's such a common thing whenever you hear about anyone that reaches the level of like superstardom, Like I think, like you know, Eminem, Britney Spears, Axel Rose, Michael Jackson, people that just kind of surround themselves with hangers on, and like that's why like a lot of people that make it big try to like stick with a close circle of people they grew up with and things like that, because like that that's or if you win

the lottery, you know, how many people from high school are going to be like reaching out to you and being like, oh hey, let's catch up and then they're gonna mortgage or whatever. It was an interesting thing I ortgage or whatever. We have painto off stuff. I remember somebody saying it once that, like it is amazing when you're in games media that all these PR people and marketing people and everything that you email with you see at a

million events every year. You know, you travel Like when whenever we did these cover story trips or whatever, like you know, would be all the cover story trips, you know, the cover story trips. It would be like the creative directors and and you know, like all the leads of the game and the PR people. You get to know these people well. And I've heard people refer to like oh yeah, just just wait. You know, they're they're your best friends when they got a game to pitch or they're

trying to get a cover story or something. But then like the second you leave the industry, how much they're just like you'll never talk to them, but like, I mean, of course you want they're doing their job. Well, they're pros. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing is like that if there shouldn't be a relation, really read it out, you know. And this is a dangerous thing to say. I'm kind of weirded out by friends in the game industry, to be honest, like I media or like,

yeah, I think everything. It just kind of makes my skin crawl a little bit of just like I don't know how real any of this is. It's kind of my vibe for a lot of this stuff, and especially like developers like to be fair, I love the game industry. I think there's a ton of super nice people, and I'm always on the lookout for

like, all right, this person seems genuine. I like that, you know, everybody else it's dead to me, no, But I just always just feel like there's some gross exchange stuff and it's probably from years of game before. We're being with pr people like I, look, we can get along well on these trips and stuff and work with you well and stuff like that, but like we're not we're not best butts here there's obviously a bigger picture happening, and I'm not naive about it. So I think I'm just

too cynical and skeptical. So even like going to game industry events, I'm always just like, I don't know what this is. There's some clique stuff, and there are definitely the people, like in any industry that are like you feel like, okay, are you are you just trying to be part of like a circle of games media people or for any kind of like jockeying for that clique stuff driving nuts? I hate it does. I hate the

clickie stuff. But like, at the same time, I think about when I I mean, this is part of the reason that I have so many incredible associations with with Minnesota. Here is like when I moved out here, I was very social at that point. I'd gone through college and kind of found myself socially and you know, started really hanging out with a lot of people, but I was still always like the guy who did the game reviews in college, and I never really had anyone that I could talk to about

games and the level that I like to or wanted two. And so when I came here, I know it was all games media friends and coworker friends and stuff like that. And I know there are some people that like bok at the idea of like, you know, work feeling like a family, or a staff feeling like a family or whatever. But like, well,

Game Informer was so especially at that time. You know, I started with oh nine, you were like twenty ten, twenty eleven, So yeah, I got hired with Tim and Annette and jeffam and you know, it's like, you know, I mean, Jeff, I were just saying, he's actually playing games in the in the studio right now, Jeff, come on, Jeff them and he's drunk. So it's just one of those things where it's like suddenly I was surrounded every day, like I moved to a city.

I don't know anything about it. I've lived in Kamas my entire life. I move here. Suddenly I'm in an awesome office every day with all the things I love surrounding me all over the place. I just got hired with four other people that were my age that are their first big job in the industry, and all these other people that like have all these amazing old stories from the nineties and the Golden Age magazine, Like there was just so

much. It was so fascinating to me that like no part of that game informer experience socially was remotely like Oh, it's it's a schmoozy media career type thing, you know, like that type of thing. Well, no, which speaks to the fact that like, you know, look how close to me and you are, Tim, and you know all these people like hell Gison burning in at this weekend. Oh are you oh, accidently you're going

out of Seattle, right, Yeah. Yeah. Anytime I get a chance to hang out with any of these people, it's like no times past at all. Like that crew was so so close, and like I don't think there was an ounce of disingenuousness about that, you know. Yeah, And what do you think that is? You think it's just the remote nature of like in Minnesota, we all got kind of a band together that helped I see a lot more of the clique stuff when I was in San Francisco.

Yeah, yeah, I think something about Minnesota is just special too, and that there is like kind of an earnestness and just like I don't know, we're just out in the Midwest here, that remoteness. Yeah, maybe, like I can't cause like I went out to San Francisco, and I was still the same person. I was still a very you know, want to be social, going out doing stuff person, but like, I don't know, a lot of the stuff just kind of did feel a little like,

yeah, looking like there's more drama out there. Drama. There's just like a lot of like people dating with other people and like, oh that this person from the site dated this person from this site, and now they can't be at the same thing. Like, I don't know, that was that was one thing I never did where It's like I always was fine with games

media friends. I never got super duper close with a lot of PR people or anything, but like, I never dated within the industry, and I feel like a lot of people we were coming up with, like in our twenties and stuff, were constantly dating within the industry, and that led to so much weird shit. And did that, I don't know result in any catastrophic moments on the internet around twenty fourteen. I can't quite recall. Oh a few, think of a few, Yeah, yeah, shocking. Yeah,

it's it's messy. Yeah that seems I'm so glad running through my head. Yeah, I'm so glad I didn't date anybody in the industry that that would be just that that whole feeling of like, what is this just kind of brought home to roost, I guess. But there's a lot of happy couples from the game industry and more power to it, you know, absolute Yeah, But I think, you know, in terms of kind of that cleckiness and stuff, I think maybe what it is is like a game a

former I never wanted to be cool. It didn't feel like there was an inshrowd and a crowd. I don't think I've ever wanted to be cool in my life. I've never like strived strove drived sounds right, freed, I think strived. Yeah, I've never like, it's never been a mission to like I need to be cool, I need to be change my fashion in high school to be cool or whatever. And I feel like, and again, this is a lot of just me in my own head too much,

but a lot of like game industry events and stuff like that. I do have that feeling of just like it feels like there's a cool table and it feels a little high school and it's not anybody's faults. I don't think it's just naturally you get socially competitive or worried. I just I don't like it. I don't care for it. Yeah, that's a good point of like the being cool thing. I I don't I never felt that. I never

wanted to be cool. I did have the ego thing, wanting to be followed, and like, I mean, like I think that was maybe happen. Wow I burped, I was, and I think that was at the time half just pure just ego, like, oh, look, people are listening to my dumb stuff and I can you know what they're making people laugh or just look at me stuff, and then half uh, career stuff.

You know. It's like it's because that's how I got to be friends with Navarro and Ryan Davis and Gerseman and stuff, and that's it led to so much and so like, so I don't really regret any of that. I think. Boy, watching that clip Alex Van Aikeen posted it, the burping and farting one with Cuba, Oh yeah, yeah, game for a video. Yeah, seeing some of that was kind of like, oh man, I was just really going all out with that stuff at that point, having a blast. I was. I hope I was not too abrasive. I

mean it was Yeah, a natural amount of abrasiveness. Right, Yeah, I'm still friends with you, okay, But it was just like, you know, if you were working in an office and somebody came over and farted in your coffee cup, I'm sure you have a moment of like, you know, I wish this wasn't my coworker. From being honest, I wasn't going up to the layout people and farting in their car. I'm not. I'm also not trying. I wonder why you're not friends with Curtis. I

mean, there is like Curtis Curtis's voice of been Angel. That's true. That's true. So how you feel about the move to Minnesota? Oh my god, it's just the best, oh best, Oh my god. No, it's like it's one of the best decisions I've I've ever made. It's amazing talking to Bunk about it, because you know, she that was part of the worry was that she didn't have the same association. I was here for five years and so much of my social circles here, and I love

this area so much. And she has been here and we've hung out at the lake House and stuff a lot, and she knows all of these friends, but like not to the same like degree, and so I was like, oh, I just hope she loves it as much as I do. And yes, it's been a little over two months now, and holy shit, it's two months. Moved into August, yeah, mid August. Yeah yeah, I mean we were in the middle of things and came out here and like June to look for houses and stuff like that. But yeah,

no, I can't say enough about it. I just it's a genuine life changer. It's just like I'm happier. I feel like physically, like since I moved out here, I've lost like thirty pounds. I fucking I feel less anxious. I mean I still have that. I'm like, I'm never gonna be the anxiety's cured guy. That doesn't really work that way, but like I noticeably, I mean think about like three hours or three hour three years during the pandemic of being in Connecticut. Yeah, didn't know anyone out

there. Yeah, a lot of that is like hard a pandemic, Like I'm just producing wrestling podcasts with no creativity in my fucking closet. But then again, that led to you kind of booming on Twitch, right, I mean that was kind of social That's the thing. I don't regret anything. It was all like I learned so much during that period, but I like, I learned so much, and I learned a lot of stuff that I

still utilized today quite a bit. I would have no idea how to fucking set this up or record this before the pandemic or anything, but it did come at the cost of my anxiety. Definitely got worse during that period physically, not just putting on the weight, but also just like a lot of issues in my back and neck and everything flared up quite a bit. I was just like your back, your neck and so forth. Yes, and I it was just a very noticeable like, oh shit, I need a

change here, and yeah, like right after moving here. It's just it's much easier to be healthy here, both in terms of like obviously all the nature and trails. And we went on like almost fifty mile bike ride a couple of weeks ago. You call it a ride, what do you call it? Its front of you, oh stopping. It's like, hey, my heart rates above ninety, I can't like anymore, not about nineties.

Above ninety is fine. I was fucking I had fucking heat exhaustion a week prior to that, because I was several weeks and you would start to go for a bike round it was ninety seven degrees. I did go in a four hour bike ride when it was ninety six degrees. But it's not like something put a gun to your head. That was like you thinking, this is the right time to go biking. I that's a frequent thing I do

when I decided it's time to get healthy again. Like when I reached that point of like fucking, I gotta lose weight or I gotta get in a better place or whatever, I go too hard, too fast on it. And that's what I was doing here where it's like I shouldn't have done a four hour ride in ninety six degree heat. Yeah, And so when we did ours, I was in a much better place than that, but I was still like, but I think the problem was you were like monitoring your

heart rate and you like, if it goes over this. This is what it was when it was really bad and I had heat exhaustion, so I can't get there. It's like, yeah, but it's like sixty five degrees sound like I think it'll be okay. Well no, but I was feeling like my my vision was getting kind of the tunnelvision, and like, I'm all right, yeah, that's what I felt like. You feel fucked up when you get it's not just heat exhaustion. It's just like I think I

was not working out a ton prior to that. I just started getting back into the groove a bit, and then suddenly it's like, Okay, if I've been walking this bike for two miles and I'm still over one hundred and fifty five heart rate, yeah, that's I even without looking at the watch or whatever, like you can feel it. It's like I need to sit down for a while, or you were carrying my ass back. So then we went to there's a bike ride where we've just been to a cafe and

drank diet pepsi for what felt like four hours. Well that was mostly you waiting for the shitter. That guy went over the door. We saw that there was a guy in there, do we I guess we both had used the women's restaurant and it was lovely. Yeah, this is a very sweet wagress. After she saw me waiting to us his bathroom for like ten minutes, she came by. She's like, you can use the women's bathroom.

She said, just jump be on the seat, buddy, Like all right, I love it, thank you, I love our bill was like fifteen dollars or something, and I was something that brought the receipt and I was like, oh okay, I just want to bend on me and you're like that was just split it. And so it's one of those things we have to take it up to the front. It's like a fifteen dollars bill or something. You hand it to this like nice old guy behind the counter, and he looks at it, it looks at you. He's like, you

want to split this? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good shaming moment from good people in Watertown, Minnesota, like what you idiots doing? Just as somebody pick up the tab you cheap fit. Yeah. But biking conclusion, after a couple of months of it's great biking, Yeah it's great. I did a handful of those longer rides. Yeah, you have a mile total. I haven't been tracking like that, which is weird because I'm usually such a numbers and stats like that. Oh really, okay, I could probably

see it then. Yeah, I think at this point it's probably kind of past the point weatherwise, We're I'm going to be doing any more this year. Yeah, so I'll just you know, I'll peloton on a regular rasis and just keep everything ready to go. So I'm I can you know, hit the hit the trail running riding, hit the trail running peloton every day. I kind of listened to because again, I just feel like I've been getting hurt a lot in the last year or two, so I kind of

listened to what's going on there. So it's like if I do a hard peloton one day and the next day I wake up my knees are kind of yelling at me, like beyond the so like soreness is normal, like in the quads and all that, but like if my knees are like joints are feeling bad, I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna ice those today and maybe go for a nice you know, ten thousand step walker or something like that. So I kind of just gauge it every morning based on how the

body's feeling. Yeah, yeah, feeling as you get older, that's probably a much more common thing. I remember it was an old Louis bit. I remember when there's one of his specials that he was like Gandal noted yes, yes, yes, acknowledged yes Dandal. But Louis c. K used to do stand up comedy. It was a thing where he was like, for he was like thirty nine and he went to a doctor and his foot hurt and the actually like, okay, well just you know, start start

doing this every day. Okay, well how long until that fixes it? And it's like, no, it's not gonna that's just something you do now, that's not gonna fix it. And he's like, well, if I was like an athlete or something like, you wouldn't just that wouldn't be acceptable. Like and he's like, you're not an athlete, Like you're just I

think about all of that that you're not an athlete. It's like, oh fuck, I wonder how many of these things are just gonna be Like I guess my neck just gets fucked up pretty regularly now so till the end of time. Lucky. But yeah, Minnesota, long story short, it's uh, I don't think I'm ever fucking moving. I love this house, I love this area. I love how many people are still here, uh,

you know, or left and came back several times. Sometimes I'm imagine I know my vision is just like you coming back, and yeah, it's just like the the future era of curl Trigger. Everyone's like dance back, everybody, puddle around, get our HBNM Peper stared. Well, it's fun too, because it's like, I don't know, I feel like there were a good amount of people that we worked with that maybe I was just too young

or immature or whatever to like really connect with back then. Sure, and like now that I'm back, you know, I've you can just say Jojuba Honestly, he's definitely like like him. I've seen Matt Burts a lot. I don't know, he wasn't on a lot of public facing stuff like Helgeson. Who they remember Matt Berts from the replay of Winter Winter Games. I

recently talked him about that. Yeah, but we've had Helgson over here a few weeks ago, and it's just like all these like oh man, it's just so great to like, you know, reminisce and also catch up and see where they're at now. And a lot of people live like started families or families have changed and things like that, and it's just a everyone is still who I remember them being. But it's like we're all just kind of like older and a little like quieter, quieter and more settled than happy.

I think that across the board. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got the copy with Joe on Thursday. You getting a dinner with him next week? He was talking it up. Oh yeah, looking forward to it. Yeah, he's uh, I feel like him. Him and Marky Pop were two that a lot of trolling was directing at, directed at, And now in hindsight, it does seem that Joe was largely finding it funny. Marky Pav is the one that I feel like I would have picked up on a

little more that he was actually annoyed by me. It's probably Fava thought thirty percent of it was funny. Joe thought fifty per it was funny. That's the thing. But you give me even a little bittime a car, you know, like do like a little like laugh or some funny you know. Yeah, it's I got to recalibrate that stuff. But yeah, well, at some point you can come over to the studio and you and Faba can play a Ninja guid in or something for midnight video. I didn't punch me

in the face, but yeah, I would love to. I would love to see Papa again. That'd be great. Yeah, what else is going on? Uh? Well we do. At a certain point we transition to video game talk. Do you want to do that? Or do you wanna wait? You're the guest. Look, I got nowhere to be. Throw something at me, Turn on the turn on the host. Hey, what do you got? I saw a movie the other day, what do you see? I thought of you just because it was an interesting experience. Uh.

I saw eras the Taylor Swift concert film. Interesting. I believe your significant other is a swifty as they say? Is that right? I don't know if you self identify as a swifty. But she's what's the delineation there? She's a super fan who reads everything on Reddit and understands everything about it and only listens to her swift. But I don't know if it'd be like it's the equivalent of being like, well, you're a gamer and yeah, I guess something about that. Don't use the term. I don't know's I

had a gues Does she own a sparkly pink cowboy hat? Not that I've seen? Okay, I don't believe so okay, but yeah, it's she loves Taylor Swift. Did you you saw this movie? Yeah, so I went to the theaters with hers because I was curious about, like, this is such a weird phenomenon. You know, we were having a kid at the time. She was having a kid when the Era's tour came through Minneapolis,

so she didn't get to go this. It's a bummer, but it's just amazing because she's like, and this is a lot of it's not like it was known, but just the Swifty community, it just feels like can predict accurately what Taylor's will do because Taylor Swift is such a smart business woman, what she will do like, uh, musical direction wise, or what she's gonna specifically. You know. My wife's like, oh, I bet she filmed that tour she just gonna release in theaters is a big concert movie.

And I was like, did she announced she's doing this? And she's like no, but it just makes sense. You'd make like a billion dollars, it's business any massive, Like, is there something specifically about Taylor Swift or about this tour that's especially like cinematic or I mean it's the biggest tour in the history of concerts? Is that really? I believe so I think God trying to pieces together on the mid mixture. The other day. Yeah,

it was Donnie Game of Thrones man was up there as well. Hang on and to stop he was, let me, I wait, I just want to try to figure out Donnie Game of Thrones man. And in the fast one scene, the the guy whose voice doesn't seem like it matches what he looks like, Donnie Ga Thrones Many Lonnie Donigan. Yeah, I know he was really high up there, but I think the Aras tour eventually topped it. Wow. So yeah, and so it tells us to such a smart business woman that it's like, oh, that just makes sense. Of

course you do that. And now it's the biggest concert movie of all time. I med one hundred million dollars opening weekend. What is what else is up there? And he's not making sense? It's probably pretty They were so much more niche even their peak then, right, which is probably some weird concert movies. Can you google things? I mean, there was the the Michael Jackson is this it? This is this thing? This is it?

I thought of this is it a lot watching that because I saw that in the theaters, because we're big Michael Jackson House growing up, my sisters loved him, and therefore I loved him, right, scandal noted? Does that just get anytime you bring up a thing that got canceled, can you just do that and save a lot of time? Yeah, okay, it is Pete Holmes and you made it weird podcast. That's what he does. That's such a good shorthad, like, look, we're hip, we get it,

we get it, but we need to talk about things. Should I does that work where it's like I'm gonna do a watch pretty soon of dirty work and it's like I know that there's gonna be stuff that doesn't age. Well, Can I just is there a quick phrase I can say at the beginning to just kind of just be like, Okay, look, we all get it. Some of the stuff didn't some of these jokes don't land anymore, but we're gonna watch it. You just say, this is Earth and

time moves forward. We all understand that, right, Okay, some things aren't cool anymore. We got Justin Bieber Never Say Never, Oh The Last Waltz Katie Perry the movie part of the Highest Give Me Shelter. I just heard from Biguess Concert Movies every highest grossing concert movies list, it says, h Taylor swifts Eras is easily the biggest concert film opening ever, Okay, and then in theory maybe seven million. Yeah, so it said, man

concert movie. Yeah, can you imagine that they're making like the Flash and it comes in under that and like just put cameras up in the stadium. That's fucking wild because like how old is she? Like thirty five, thirty two something like that, So she's gonna have such a long career. Oh yeah, and if she doesn't just like go off and fucking become a recluse or something, she's gonna like that's that's why we're talking like Dolly Parton all

the time, like you know, life long. That's Look. I couldn't name a fucking Taylor Swift song, but I I remember your girlfriend singing one loudly one time a long time ago. I'm sure I wrote that. Uh there's the shake it Off Shoes, Shake it Off shake Okay, Yes,

yes, that one I have heard. Yes, yeah, there's So there's a podcast that I like called Acquired and it's all about like history of companies, and they did an episode that's over three hours long, that's just about like Taylor Swift as a business and it's like really fascinating just to chart her entire career. It's like, here's why she's number one, here's every smart decision she has made. But is it her or is it like is she have except management? Really? Yeah, she has a team and her dad's

on the team and stuff, but largely her. But she's had like great mentors throughout her life and stuff like your dad, like a weird Britney Spears dad thing, or it's like a weird Karen dad. Seems like good dad situations, I understand. But there was also like a songwriter, which is kind of cool, like an old Nashville lady songwriter that helped her out a lot in the beginning that co wrote oh sorry Swift is co wrote all too

well with her and like some other big songs and stuff that. So she's had a lot of mentorship and then you know, advice all around, YadA, YadA, YadA. Anyways, So yeah, this movie was huge and I was like I want to go opening night because I want to see like what that theater is like, Like are are people going to be crying?

Are people going to be screaming, what is it gonna be like? Because I like going to movies where there's a big reaction, you know, like we love the Jackass movies, the most fun movies to see the theater, right, like the best, and it's like, is this is this gonna be basically Jackass five? You know? Uh? The answer was it was

it was damn close. No, is this really fun? Like you're never at a theater and like the movie theaters were really leaning into this idea of like we want everybody to get up and dance, like please react during this. They came in, they sent someone out with I got live MinC. No, they didn't say anything exactly like that. I just made it up.

No, but I feel like in some posts or some messaging AMC who had a partnership, because the whole idea, I believe the idea was Taylor Swift went to like distributors to try and line up a distributor for this movie, and just no one was giving her the terms she wanted. She's like, all right, I'll screw you guys, like I'll go directly to AMC and just cut everybody out, cut out the middleman. And then she just did that and then yeah, it takes one hundred million dollars. Of course.

I just had a picture of that, Like AMCPR person who in the same year has to be like, hey, everyone get up there, dance show they're having a good time, and also put out the press release that's like, we're not sending poison gas in the theater during Sound of Freedom. Wait what oh god, that's the whole other thing. But like, I woonder if the same person had to deal with the same person. That's amazing.

No, it's just fun to be in a theater. We're like, yeah, there were people standing up singing along, like people applauding in the theater, which I know everyone's like, oh, it's all living people clap at the end of the movie. I'm like, I've always disagree with us, Like the point is to have a communal experience. It's not like you're

applauding. People can hear you. The point is like you want to acknowledge with the other people around you that we all enjoyed this together, right, we're a group, and so like it was a really fun moment just for having a theater just be laser locked, and especially like there are a bunch of this feels weird to say there's a bunch of like little girls all over, and like it made it so much better. It sounded weird when you

said it. Scandaloading, no, but even genuinely heartwarming. And you know, I might have been a little high, but like it made me want to cry because just like little girls like screaming and standing all like dancing together like in a movie theater. It was awesome. I had a similar feeling when Force Awakens came out, and like, I I like Star Wars. Like I would never call myself like a super hardcore Star Wars person, but

I've seen all the movies. I like the movies a lot. I don't watch all the Disney plus stuff or whatever, and like, so when Force Awakens came out, I was like, Okay, I'm genuinely very excited for this. It's been a long time. We've always wondered what episode you know, uh seven would look like. And uh I saw it. It was fine. I enjoyed it. It was okay. Uh And then I left and you know, again, didn't hate it. Didn't feel like it was being like jaded, cenecal older guy or whatever, but I just I wasn't

especially moved by it. And then I saw it in front of the theater two kids who had just seen it, and they had like the toy lightsaber things and they were like having like like these two little kids having a lightsaber fight, and it's like, you know what, that's that reaction is a lot more important than whatever the fuck my you know, thirty whatever year old ass. And that's why babies should be allowed at the zoo, you idiot. That's k fabe, that's kay, Okay, you should probably let kids

be at It was on the BombCast and a firescape thing. People get very angry about that stick but it was fun for everybody. No, But I think, like, you know, Taylor Swift from just it's nice because I don't have to be too absorbed in every detail, but it's always just fun to get an update on what's going on in the Taylor Swift world from my

wife and stuff. And just like the the level of parasocial attack attachment she has with her community, like it is off the trusty to attachment attachment attachment.

Okay, does she engage with it? Does she? Yeah? Like from the start, she's just been super community focused, always like inviting people to different things like oh, come Prieve with the new record, and just like it's built up to this legion of fans who you know, when she says, hey, go and register to vote, it's like systems are down because no one can handle it. And just like seeing the diehard fans in that theater, you know, it's like whoa and she's and it's just fun.

First of all, you like big stuff, I know you do spectacle. Yeah, seeing this in a big theater with awesome sound and it's like wild awesome concert production because the whole thing is like going through all the different eras just had musically, and just like the set will change. It's just cool lighting guests, all this stuffy yeah, but just seeing like her communing with her communicating with the frans fans, and she knows exactly what they want.

She's not doing like too many bonus interviews. She's very strict on her messaging, but she's just like has nailed it on a messaging perspective. You

know, she just comes out and you know everyone's going nuts. Apparently they trimmed it down in the movie, but Maife was telling me like during the show, after she did a couple of songs just like people for some reason in this break, people would start applotting and apparently it would go for over ten minutes if people just screaming, and she would just like have to wait

it out. But she's so sweet and like communicating to the crowd. She's like as they're going nuts, she goes, I just it's a very generous thing you all are doing for me right now, and I really appreciate it. Like, and she's big on just messaging, especially in this movie, like you know this right here, this moment, right now, we're sharing this together. Don't forget it. Like it's just pitch perfect messaging for building

a community. And that's like a weird thing that I'm very It's just it's really cool to see that, you know, Honestly, I know I don't know anything or but like I have nothing but respect for that. And like you talk about like the spectacle angle, like there's many angles of this that

I can only respect. Like do you think when like let's say, okay, I know everyone I know in Kansas City, all this shit going on with Travis Kelcey and OHS games and stuff like that, Like I know something is working on like a press media level, if it's something that is so far out of my wheelhouse and I still, despite not seeking it out,

am confronted with it all the time. And I don't know how many fucking times I have seen her in a box at Arrowhead like a yelling and stuff, and so like that is obviously a huge get media wise, Like that's just everywhere. Do you think something like that is a carefully considered like, Hey, we're gonna let the media know she's up there, Like it's not like, oh, she's showing up there trying to be candid and everything.

Like do you think this was a not to say it's a false thing or that it's you know, like but do you think it is a like, hey, we're gonna play into this and it is. I mean, who

knows, No one knows. But it's like if she's that smart of a business and she has a big movie coming out and she's dating a football player snl and yeah, yeah, I am going to be applauding and have the cameras on me and have it be this huge story in the weeks leading up to my concert movie releasing that I'm distributing directly, Like hell yeah, good.

Good for her. I mean, I guess the test is, you know, see along the football seasons last couple of months here, I guess, you know, with the chief stay in it and stuff like does she keep showing up after her movie is out of theaters? Right, that'll be

the test. I suppose. I feel like it'd be weird if she did, if she is like she is like dating this guy, right, yeah, she didn't come to the Minnesota game, oh right, right, yeah yeah, Like I subscribed to the newspaper now and I was reading about like, oh, all eyes are on the US Bank Stadium to see if Taylor is going to be hearing, like ticket price is going up on like the idea of like and I've heard from friends in Kansas City and stuff there,

like they know people that live in the building that Travis Kelsey lives in and that, like you know, people being like, oh yeah, I've taken my trash out six times today, just like scouring the halls wondering if Taylor's gonna make an appearance. You know, like God, it's but you love that level of celebrity just just huge force, nothing but respect for it. Where it's like it's obviously working I don't see any harm that this is doing to anyone, you know, Like, tell that to Jake Jillen Hall.

What does he have to do with it? Oh, he's like he dated her a while ago when she was really young, some real good creepy stuff. I mean, he was one of those like he was creepy. Well, I think he was like thirty two when she was eighteen. Like one

of those things was come right man. Yeah. But then her best song we all agree listeners all too well, you would you would like all too well, and it was like her best song is about that relationship and the song freakin' rules, and she just like re recorded it because you know, the whole thing about the master recordings and all this. This is an awesome

little story that I'm sure I'll butcher the details of. But the idea is there were some real shitheads that owned the rights to her recordings for her first well the majority of her career to his record company. Yes, okay, exactly, just some gross guys that she did not approve of it at a certain point. Sure, and she was like really young when she started, right, so she probably signed some shit. Yeah, one of those types

of things. But the idea was that even though they own the rights for people to use that song and license it out, they still needed her to give approval to that being used. Okay, so it's like, okay, well they own these recordings, but they did my approval. So everything is just kind of in a weird stalemate. And so at a certain point she's like, well, they just record these they own those literal recordings, and so I can just go back into a studio and fuck you, I'm going

to re record every old album I did and re release it. And and it's like, well, what do you do, because then it's going to confuse the marketplace if both these are on Spotify. And so all she did is she re released all these albums. Was she up to like four or three of her old al yeah, yeah, but she's like whole new productions of it, and it kind of like extended versions of some songs and stuff

and as well. But then in the re recordings when it goes up, it's the same name of the album, but then in parentheses it just says Taylor's version. So it's like, if you're a fan and you see on Spotify, like this song Taylor's version and other songs. It's like the cleanest way to communicate, go for this one. So now the people who own those old recordings are like, oh shit, and so they quickly sold it to somebody else for like three hundred million cash. Oh yep, okay,

yeah. But so then someone's like, yeah, I'll buy all of Tilly's what's recordings, So somebody else owns it for th rend a million dollars. Was like, they can't do anything because she's not going to sign off and give approval for any of this. And now she just owns all of her songs because she has these recordings out there, and are they supposed to like do they sound a lot like the old ones? Yeah? Yep. Really, it's kind of it's almost like a remastering, you know, in some

ways, but it's surprisingly close. And so the fans of like accepted them as like this is that these are the ones we listen to now, like

yeah, it's super smart. I can't help but think that, like in our lifetimes like this is not I'm trying to think of what to compare like her celebrity to and it's like there have been like things like oh, I don't know, the Spice Girls and stuff that there are things that were like genuine phenomenons inescapable, but we're kind of flashed in the pan, like Okay, they like two songs that were everywhere and then like a year and a

half they've fade out. I think I think she's Michael Jackson level. That's the thing is, like I feel like I have been hearing about Taylor Swift. I feel like for at least over a decade, right, like she's been a big thing. So like this is obviously not some like flash in the pan thing. Yeah, so I it was something I always it was similar like like Madonna. You know, I don't really like I don't consider myself like a fisionado of like her. I like her songs fine, but

I don't really ever seek it out. She seemed to always kind of reinvent herself and always stay relevant throughout her career. The undertaker of pop music, if you would put it that way. And I so, I I can't think of anyone. God, am I just thinking? Am I not thinking of obvious things in our lifetimes and music in mainstream extremely popular at like this level or anything close to it. But the really, I mean, during

our lifetimes, you know Dinosaur reacted in our time. Yeah, yeah, because I mean the Stone's been playing the hit since eighty one, you know, so I can't think of anyone who stayed, even Prince, Like, I mean, I feel like Prince said, you know, the eighties, early nineties and stuff was kind of the heyday, and you should go free

museum tour by the way, or oh at Paisley Park. Yeah, it's cool that long ago they went for that tour and they said like, oh, in this room, Prince had a bunch of arcade cabinets, but once he passed, we hauled him out and they're in storage now. And so I asked the tour guy, was like, do you know what games he had? Those are written down? Ins that recorded are He's like, I don't know. Hey, i'll get back to you. I'll get back to

you. We'll talk to like the historian people, okay. And so I tried calling and emailing after the fact, like I just want to know, because I think it would be a fun little YouTube video. I really did. Yeah, I'm like, I want to make like a just one out video of like I want the exact recording of like what games the Prince Crab

at Paisley Park. Yes, you know, because even I remember there was some tour of Michael Jackson's coming up a suspicious amount on this podcast that I think it was like a sixty minutes piece or something, and you saw you could see like the arcade games that he had in the background of his house and so fun to like positive like, yeah, what do people like my?

Which games do they own? Like Spielberg, you see, like the games that he has in the DreamWorks office, you know, like I'm so obsessed with that, Like what are you buying if we are like within a few miles of like Prince's cabinet of San Francisco Rush, Like do you think exactly for that's exactly my point. Yeah, holy shit, Yeah, they're just sitting there with so much other stuff. You know, God, I

would like to go to that museum. He is one of those just like again, I all of his music that I've heard, I like a lot. I just I'm not I don't want to act like I'm an expert or anything, but he's one of those guys that's like an an axe a rose or or these were just weirdos, just straight up weirdo geniuses that like I just can't get enough of those stories. Like every story I've heard about Prince

has just been like what is going on here? He's like the most like just wild free sexual dude ever but also like a huge Jehovah's witness and like all these like I want to hear stories about this thing. And Basic Park

is really cool. It seems like there's a munch a comfy, impressive rooms and the weirdest part is like, Okay, this is where Prince hung out all the time, and it's like it's the worst where it's kind of just like an old fifties diner style thing with like a hard plastic, old fifties diner seat, Like yeah, he would just sit here and he'd watch a bunch of Lynx games, like the Minnesota with a diner. It's in like

there's like a couch within a diner. And it really is like this is like the type of room that if I own this place, maybe i'd walk into once for the day, Like this is his hangout spot. It's odd if you were Prince rich, what would your life look like? Because you I do kind of admire your ability to just like you make money. Yuh, you're comfortable. You're comfortable with, uh what you got. Yeah. I was talking to my dad about this the other day because they're wanting to

build like a tiny house. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long story, and so it's a lot of going back with like the family and the rest of my family's like, okay, well let's make it bigger, bigger, bigger, And I'm like, let's keep it small. Everything's fine, we don't need to, like, we can keep this small and simple. Like I like our little lake lot over there in rural Minnesota, western Minnesota the way it is, you know. And I was trying to explain to my

dad, like, yeah, I don't think I'm cheap. I'm just content, Like I don't want anything but to thrive for I think right is to like want no. No is to be content with what you have, and like right right I I you know, like I meditate a lot, and I'm into that, like so much of that as just being present in the moment and happy, which is oh your breath and your life and your health and all that stuff. But at the same time, I like getting fucking

old games and arcade machines and bullshittresses me out. I know, that's the thing that's like. But I so I have this kind of like push and pull of just like I want to be comfortable just with you know, just sitting on a pillow, paying attention to my breath. But then also it's like I got wont to god, I gotta get a rip three or whatever. What do you want all this stuff for. That's parts of confucon to

me. I think it's part of it is. I remember the first time I walked in the game Informer when I was eighteen's two thousand and two, and I saw the vault and it was just like this is where they kept all their games. Yeah, yeah, for people who don't know the trips. For me, it was the like museum aspect of it, where it was like I loved video games so much and I loved having this physical room I could stand in and just look around like oh wow, look at this,

and like the whole thing I'm doing replay and everything. It started with like, you know, just looking around. There's so many different games and stuff, and it was just in a physical room. Like I love emulation, I do all that stuff, but like I like the museum aspect of it. And that's why it's like I don't buy, like I don't give a shit about buying like fancy cars or anything like that. Like you see the stuff I buy, and it's like it's all games and wrestling stuff.

It's like the shit that I love. So like I I like being surrounded by the stuff I love and so but I also at the same time, like that is like kind of a burden. It's like when I was moving here and it's like, oh fucking I move all this shit and like, you know, make it, make sure it's safe and everything, and it's like there is that world where like that that uh oh, Ted Kazinski is the guy I go to, like just the like Cavin. Yeah, I

want to be like Ted Scandal noted. There's probably a better example than Ted. I can't think of one, you know, Okay, how about walden walden Pond. You know, like that's maybe a better than the name's pond walden Pond Genesis. Yeah, so no, I I do. I do respect that. I think that's an important quality to have. And I'm genuinely confused when people really want stuff a lot where it's like it's like I want a nice, simple house. We haven't bought a house yet, you know,

it's like a whole thing. It's like, just give me a nice, simple house. I'm good. I don't know. Maybe maybe my brain's broken for not wanting I want like career success, I want Max to do really well. But in terms of like I don't, I don't know, I'm not. It's finding this stuff that actually matters and makes your life. It's like it's additive to your life. Like I don't think if I bought a fucking Lamborghini, I don't think that my life is any better. I

think I just have to worry about this Lamborghini. You know. It's like, but there are things where it's like, okay, well if you pay a little extra and get a house in an area with its surrounded by nature and things like that, it's like that is an actual additive benefit to your life, right, So like that's and like the game, I feel like those additive things to your life. It's like if you're fortunate, it's like you can you get that cap you're doing all right, And then it's just

the comparison thing of like okay, I need to fancy your house. I've never I've never felt the comparison thing at all, Like I just want to be happy with wearing. Like right now I'm happier than I've ever been. Yeah, But like there's also, like, you know, with what we do for a living and everything I like getting like you know, top I like getting current equipment and things like that. And we've a million times throughout

our friendship just I've been like, oh, what's with this TV? And like part of me is kind of like, man, you should get a better TV, you know, And part of me is like, actually, there is a very stark and neither of you are in the wrong here. You were both working in the right way for you. But look at you and look at the way like Miller and kind of funny operate. I'm good friends with both you and I. Miller has deserved all of that whole crew

over there deserve all there. So he's a billionaire who deserved it. He's Richard Branson at the game. No, he You look at that fucking spare bedroom they have and it's insane. It's like Sports Center over there. It's just ridiculous, but it works for what they're doing. They make great use out of it, and it fits like they are san Francisco and the thick of it and big games industry staff and everything. You also think they all grew up with wrestling, right, and so they kind of like that show

there's there's some wrestling. Yeah yeah, but you are a Minnesota guy and you named your your thing Minnesota is in the name of your outlet men Max by the way, uh and it is. There is an earnest and I feel like I'm not saying Miller and those types are are He's saying it.

There is a very Midwestern quality that is a good thing here. It's I always think of Wayne's World when it was in the basement versus Wayne's world when they got bought out by the TV station and you lose a little bit, you know, I think so yeah, I mean, you know, if we ever move, then at some points here we'll need a new mid Max

studio. And so I was already starting to think about that idea. I'm just like, Okay, how do you make a new studio that still feels cozy, because like our studio now is just like we angle the camera very specifically so it looks okay. But I've been in there a bunch. You got the laundry machines on a concrete floor right next to there. You step outside, it's a mess. But on camera, I think it looks fine, and it's like people want I think it looks great. I think it

looks better than fine. I think it's really great. And like the stuff you do with you make use of that space. We don't need anything else. Yeah, we have a TV from Game Reformer from twenty ten. It's like, what do we know? Do we need some four K TV to play games of this? And we're fine. Half of me wants to, like, you know, ring your neck and be like what are you doing? You can you can run a studio, get a better TV, And then half of me is like, yeah, you're good. Good it.

It's not going to really change from the viewers perspective if you're happy with it, and the people that are happy with it, like, then what's the problem. Yeah, But then again, I'm too content with everything, so it's signed to have somebody kick my ass every once in a while, like Sarah Pazorski on the Midmax team, who's like, dude, these chairs suck in the studio. Why aren't you getting their chairs? Like? What do you you sit on them? Their chairs. Who cares and there's like can

you just get some comfortab really? Yeah? So that was the That was a big back and forth and eventually like I need a stream and we surprised her with new chairs and like took them out of like this Heidi holes the big reveal and stuff, which was fun. But then it was like then after that, I was like, oh, of course, new chair. Yeah, we should have comfortable chairs when we're doing podcasts. So like I have a weird blind set. It's like a I don't know, I'm colorblind

when it comes to quality. No, but just like I did certain point that I did talk to her about it, like, by the way, there's other stuff like that that seems like obvious that we're not doing in the studio that would make everybody more comfortable, Like please let me know, because in my mind's like, well, we have a camera, we have a

place for games, and the personalities are what matter. I would think that, you know, I know, I think most people that are on mid max and stuff like that, and I would think that in that really like me and you friends and coworkers and peers and stuff like that. But in that context, I've always found you extremely easy to talk to about anything, even if it's you know, uncomfortable topic and anything like that. It's I've

never thought twice about approaching you with honest thoughts about something. I would imagine that carries over to like you're kind of like technically a boss of It's well, it's confusing, Yeah, it's because I mean, you're you're writing the checks, so that alone kind of but the money is coming from the patron supporters, right, and so it's fure I'm only full time person the contractors, so like, I don't think contractors called the figure of boss. So

I hey, man, I'm not a boss. That's what it is. Like, I consider myself I'm the I'm the banker in the Monopoly game of mind Max, where the money is in there already and I'm just managing it

for other people. Okay, but I would imagine, and I can't speak for them, but like, knowing you the way I do, I would imagine that I would hope that it's easy to approach you with things and talk about things, whether it's you know, what shows they're going to be on, you know, money situations things like that, like do you do you feel like do you strive for that or do you think that comes naturally?

I no, Yeah, I think so, Yeah, I hope. So, Like we do check in like one on one calls every three months, and that's like when the new contract rolls in and stuff like that. Just kind of it's a nice time just to reset every three months and just kind of checking with everybody's the other doing one on one. Where I get worried about it is I was like, oh man, if this is too much

like employee review feeling every three months to pull out my mouth. So it's like every I need to remind myself like oh I think this would better be better. But like I noticed this, if you do this differently, it's like, Okay, I'm trying to like minimize those notes in these discussions unless there's like something that's really eating me alive with the most parts, like Okay,

how's your schedule looking in the next three months? You know what, what's stress you out of the last three months, that type of thing. But this is getting too much into the you know, being a bus it's

tough. It's tough to be a founder of a company. And I just that's a you know, I've always worked for like big corporations, right, And like I've always like I've done Patreon stuff before, but like I've always been very curious about what that feels like, both in your position and working for someone or working as a team, like you know, kind of funny

and everything. Like it's just got to change everything. Like I always feel like it would drive me nuts were month to month looking at the numbers because I would look every I would look every fucking day at the numbers, you know, and every time there's a drop, I would attribute that to something. Every time there's a rise, I would attribute to something when sometimes that's just not how it works. Like I don't know I or do you feel

like you work well with that type of stress or comfort with it? I Mean the big thing that was stressed me out a lot is when we launched, we had a couple like we focus more on kind of some bigger tiers on Patreon where it was like, hey, jump in at the four hundred dollars tier and you can hear me out and we'll say hello to you. No, that was for an ad slot on the podcast. Oh well then that's like a business can like or an indie game or something, Right,

did you find that's who's using that slot. Well yeah, so it was kind of in that era. But then to be like, okay, three people jump in this month, next month, you don't have any people, and so you'd be looking at the graph of the Patreon and it'd be like huge plummet and so that would just be horrifying to see. And so eventually we got rid of that and we work through an ad company. Now it's like, let's just keep the patron supporters smaller so the number isn't so wild

because you're trying to budget things and that gets scarier. It's like our budgeting this much and we're gonna have this much wiggle room this month, but then if the number goes down, I don't want to be in the red on a month to month basis. Blah blah blah blah. And so that was

a little bit stressful. But then like taking that ad thing out and focusing on just communicating to the mid meximuity of like find the tier that's sustainable for you, because that is how we can get the best read like, don't be like, oh, I'm gonna be at the twenty dollars tier. It's kind of tight. Every month, but I really want to do it. But it's like, don't stretch. Don't stretch. Find something that works within

your current lifestyle. Five bucks a month, two bucks a months, whatever you need to do, Like be a small brick in that wall, because the bigger brick you are, when it crumbles, it hurts, you know, So it's like we need to Yeah, budgeting is a weird thing in the Patreon world, right, it is so fascinating, Like, and I've talked about this since you started midmax, but like just seeing the you know, from you being the video guy who didn't want to be on a microphone

during replay to like suddenly oh, hosting stuff, okay, all right, and then now like hearing you talk about like just ends and outs of a Patreon business. And it's just it has been very fascinating as a friend to watch your progression over the years and it's like it's it's really incredible, and I talk it up a lot, and yeah, it's just you're you're doing good stuff. Hey, thank you so much. Yes, it's trying not

to blow it. It really is. Like I was talking to Joe By this other day because I was venting a little bit about some small things to Joe, and then it's like always just reminding myself saying to him, like, I really do think that I do have the best job in the game industry. You don't answer to any corporate shit heads. You do anything you want to. You can hopefully well, I mean, it's not too out

of control, but you do a lot of we choose. I see you do stuff like it's like, oh, we're just going to play a real game of By the way, I'm I'm specifically trying not to use wrestling term, Like I just said the word real and I stopped myself from saying, shoot, because you're not. I appreciate that, yes, you know, I mean yeah, but I was seeing you play a real game of tennis, seeing the fucking the thing you had me come on with Leo, with

the the drive through thing that's just a letterman bit. Oh yeah, yeah like that. Whenever like you tell me about that stuff, it's just like, oh my god, this is just amazing. And that's that's the greatest I don't know it, it's the best feeling in the world to be like, we don't need to run this by anybody. It's like, if we have this some Ladia, are you guys game okay? With the community like it? Okay, great, let's just do it. It's not going to

be the most thought out, freaking think of the world. The production might be, you know, I think it's good enough, but like you know, when we're going like on the road and doing those live streams and stuff for New Show Plus on the road, then it's like, okay, you know, it might be a little dodgy with the internet connection every once in a while, but like, who cares if people are horrified by it, they don't have to watch that video, But like you get the idea and

just to go from Okay, this is too much of a pitch stuff, right, But New Show Plus for Midmax we pitch four new shows every week and then let the community on Patreon vote for which new show they we create or continue, and then the next week we pitch four new shows. But one of those shows is the follow up episodes. So episode two to whatever won the previous week. So if you want to see this, keep going. Yes, yeah, and we'll keep doing it as long as you keep

voting for it. And it's just like it's it wasn't even my idea. I think it was Anna and Leo's idea, and it's just become like, oh, of course, that's the core for having variety for an outlet, because it's always going to shake up, and if a show is kind of getting long in the tooth, it's going to die naturally because people won't vote for it, and there's going to be a variety every week. And it's just so fun to like to be in the Monday meeting come up with those

four ideas, like, uh, does this work? If we just go eat at a red lobster? Is that a show? I think that's a show? You want it? They want it, Then they vote for it and say great by you know, within twenty four hours. Then it's like all right, listen to the show, get it out there, it's done.

Moving on. If you end up having like several pitches out there that any one of them you could have to act on, like yeah, I think shows and features and stuff like that, doesn't like it could be hard to think of a good idea and for you to like pitch several every week. Yeah, and then like okay, we'll see which one, like three of them go in the trash, like yeah, but I mean it's it's fine, and like they need to be stuff that we need to that were

up for doing. You know, it went up with dangerous stuff on there. But I mean look, I mean here, next week we'll put maybe pumpkin carving. We did that last year. It's like, can we bring that back. It's not like breaking the mind bring bank to come up with these ideas. Sure, sure, let's see going to the Malibu Barbie Cafe, opening them all of America. We wrote down the name of a show called Horror Scirrel Tower of Death. I think details were TVA on that one.

But we'll figure it out. What say, if we'll figure it out. There's there's been a couple instances of that, like we'll figure this out later. Yeah, excellent, Yeah, that's fun video games? Right? Yeah? Are we doing ads? They get shoved in there. Oh, we don't have to do ads. We're good. Oh you don't do Okay, No, you'll probably hear some ads starting right for the ads that double upcause I undstand a listener that's frustrating and I hear your pain. Here's the

deal. I see that too, but it sucks. Look, I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. The one I listen to is Deadlock, and I set them up with the same place that we do ours. And I'm a listener of Deadlock, and so I'll sit there and I'm going on a walk or whatever, and I you know, the ads start. I hit thirty seconds forward. Okay, Oh it's same ad. Okay, thirty seconds forward, okay, same one, thirty second sword Okay, the show's back. Honestly, I know some people are bugged by it. It's just

the way programmatic ads work. And just fucking use the thirty seconds. You do what you gotta do. But ad free for the patrons. That's all right. This is a threat like Mary's winning a lot of money at the Las Vegas Casino. Mary's winning a lot of money. It's the Las of phasers. Am I going mad? I you hear it on Deadlock all the time. Hey, Dollary a bit. Here's what's important, Dan, Let's get to those ads. Let's get to those ads. Except for you Patreon

folks, I gotta go pee. Yeah, we're gonna get us roller here. Ben, I find it difficult to talk to you. So it's a good thing. There's a lot of games this week to talk about. To fill the time. Yeah, thank god, that's something to talk about. It is, uh, maybe the most This is maybe the most games I've had written down ever for a game section there. Yeah, I mean a lot of it's just dabblin, you know, dabbling. Sure. I mean

Friday October twentieth with Mario Wonder and Speederman two. I think it's the best single day for game releases. If you want to be a gross Metacritic person, is this portal Mortal Kombat reboot day? It's tied than that. I mean, what is the Mortal Kombat nine? What could that be out of Metacritic? Oh, let's guess Mortal Combat nine, eighty eighty six. That what would Metacritic list it as Mortal Kombat twenty twelve eleven? Okay, you're

saying eighty six? Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say eighty eight. Okay. The answer is, as it's loading, it's loading eighty six. WHOA, nicely done, very good. I'm impressed, man, great gay Yeah. Okay, So Spider Man and uh Mario Wonders. So spider Man, have you talked Spider Man a lot? Yeah? And your stuff already yeah, yeah, we did the decent amount two So I'm trying to think. I'm happy to talk about it again. I freaking love that's, yeah,

because I haven't talked to you about it. You're eleving it. Yeah, I beat it. I'm only I'm like, I beat it, and I'm sixty nine percent of the way through everything. But it seems like a pretty easy one to get everything for us. I feel like I'm like over seventy and I stopped with and I have ten story missions to go. Oh yeah, there's a story yet that's the thing. I did like every side thing that build out the skill treets well, because I love the side stuff.

It's been super fun. I think that stuff is good, but I just I don't like the story missions. I'll tell where I stopped. Yeah, was it was one? Where's where was your spoiler level at? I feel like you're a little faster and looser than we are. But mmm, okay, no specifics. Well, we'll talk about like the format of a mission,

but not like what happened in the larger story. Okay, so it's one of those where like, look, I I know I've never been a big marble guy or whatever, and I'm not here just shit on that or anything, but I really like Spider Man one and Miles morals, and even like the story stuffware, it didn't really bother me, you know, like all this stuff around it was so good that like even it didn't bother me, Like I think of, like I don't know, like the end of

Spider Man twenty eighteen, big emotional scene, You're like, well, this isn't bothering me? Is that the one? I think that's the one I stopped half way through? Is that the Michael Keaton one, Spider No No, the game from Oh the game, the game I platinumed? Both those,

I think, OK, this one. So it's kind of like the problem that when I saw the state of play or whatever it was that showed that long fucking mission with the jet skis and all that stuff, and it's like, there's a lot of that, and I think this game starts with a lot of that. There's a big spectacular set piece thing. So really I hated it. I almost stopped at the beginning of this game. Hang

on, am I hallucinating? I swear to guy, I talk to you about starting this game, and you're like, oh, it as a set piece of the gate that's awesome. That was not me because I almost stopped playing because of that the first like hour. What yeah, that was not me. You're talking about there's a big thing throwing a bunch of things and the city is in trouble, like and you said, no, go mister spectacle yourself, no, because I keep in my head I just kept thinking

of God of War two back in the day. Yeah, yeah, the Shadow of Roads or Shadow Roads, Clossus to Roads thing or whatever, the Cody of Roads. WHOA, Okay, look, this is no wrestling podcast.

It was big and spectacular and technically impressive, but like you know, in God of War, I remember, first of all, it was two thousand and seven or whatever, so it was like very kind of new and fresh and everything, but there were still like your fighting smaller enemies and you're actually having to kind of like pay attention to some stuff and crowd control and watch certain meters and stuff like that. Like you know, like it was a it was a real boss fight, you know, on top of the

spectacle. And now when you go this far and what is it, twenty fifteen years in the future something like that, I feel like that spectacle of seeing a big thing fuck up a city or whatever, even though it's fidelity wise so much more impressive. Yeah, overall was not really doing it for me. It wasn't moving the needle, but also gameplay wise was the real sin for me, and that like I felt like it was playing itself. It's a set piece, I know, but there's so many other boss fights

in the game that are actually like learn the combat. I thought they were pretty weak too, like the story mission, like the yeah, the rogues gallery of the breaks, like me needs company group that Cinistas six look it up. I like, Look, there's a lot that I like a lot about this game. In fact, overall, my thoughts are extremely positive on this game. I want to be very c I would to make it very

clear. I think if this were a Game Informer, which I know I work at a place that kind of does reviews now and it's a five star scale, but I've always liked the ten star scale or ten to ten point scale. I think this is a solid eight for me. But there are parts of it that I think are ten, and there are parts of it that I think are six. But having a problem with like the opening big set piece thing, which is like, I don't know, ten minutes,

it was like, let's just get it. It's much longer than that, and like it feels like it's very Simon says, it's very something's gonna get thrown at you and then slow down, press circle to you know, like it's at But it goes on for it's not ten minutes. It goes on a lot longer than that, and it takes I feel like it was the better part of an hour before I felt like it kind of opened up. And once it opened up, because I really was about to be like,

Okay, I can see there's gonna be a whole lot of this. I saw this stay to play a thing I've played this first hour or whatever. It's gonna be a lot of this. I just don't think. I think I get it. I think I see what this is. I was ready to throw in the towel, and I'm glad I kept pushing because I had like twenty five hours of it and really enjoyed most of it. The worst swinging around, I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing. That'st traversal side

of that opening thing in the opening, it's really okay. Sure, once you're opened up. The swinging around, first of all, it's always been good it was good in the fucking GameCube game. It was you know, it's been good for a long it's better now. It's the best it's ever been. Now I meet the record by five hundredfold. It is. And the stuff they've added even over Miles Morales and the twenty eighteen one fantastic. Like I like being able to like jump super high in the air right away.

I like doing the loop de loop when I'm coming down in the dive. I like the super sling shot to go across like full like you know, parts of the water and everything. Switching between Miles and Peter is really cool and how seamless, and when you fast travel or switch and it's just like not a fucking second of load. It's like you're just there running into

the other Spider Man and going around like this is the coolest thing. You're in the middle of a fight and you do a thing to kill him and you expect the slow down, and then all of a sudden, like oh shit, Miles is here and he's something and they say something. They have a nice lab like hey, what wonderhere? You're gonna show up all right? See, Like it's it's so believable work yes, and that is the stuff I love. I really in the web wing stuff works really well.

It doesn't like overpower you too much towards and why would ever swing like you need to swing? You need to do all that stuff. It's great and so like most of my time enjoying it was like swinging around. I bought the upgrade where it's like I can see all the like stashes. I can see all you know, the little chests and the prowler stashes, and every crime that pops up, I go and do it every I did every photo. Maybe you're burning yourself out. I mean no, no, I never

got burnt out on that stuff. I got burned out on the story mission. So I got you a point where I had done like all of the side stuff that I could do, which was a lot. I think there's one or two like things that you have to like get to a certain point in the story before I unlocks like the certain like collecting the instruments and doing

all. I did all of that stuff and loved all of it, okay, And then I got to a point where it's like, shit, I've kind of gotten all the upgrades where I've at least seen what all the upgrades are. I've done all these side things, I've done every photo, I've done all that. And I was at twenty one out of thirty one missions done, and I was like, all right, I know I don't love the story missions so much here, but you know, let's see it through.

I really like this game a lot, and I went to go start one and it was one of those like I'm Mary Jane, I need to sneak through this house, sure, and I was like, I just don't. Some of these missions are like an hour long, and like the cinematics are extremely well done. I don't know if I'm I wouldn't stop watching it or anything, but I feel like the Mary Jane stuff, if we're talking

about that, like, I totally agree. I didn't like the Mile stuff and the married Jane stuff from Spider Man twenty eighteen, and so the first time you're married Jane in this game, I was like, oh, no, what are you doing? We love how to Throw a Rock game because we love swinging around and doing Spider Man things, not slowly navigating a space. And even if it's like she's a little more badass than this one, she's a moves. Was like Okay, you got like a zapper, like

she can go up. Yeah, it's fine. Sure, But at the same time, I was thankful that it's like those missions, they're they're easy, they're short, getting it out. It's just kind of exposition sequence moving on, and then you're back to swinging around the city. Like is this especially short? I don't think you're spending an hour of Marria Jane. And the Marria Jane was like no, there was the one at the Zoo and that was like maybe like fifteen minutes, and then it turns into like a

Spider Man thing. But like, I just I I did those missions purely out of necessity to move the story forward. And when that's all I had left and I'm just staring down the barrel of this, it was like, oh man, I just don't. I don't went through the Mary Jane stuff and then the rest is fine. No, no, no, no, even like the when you're playing is Miles or Peter, like the story missions,

I just I'm not into like even stuff that. Like I was kind of into the story, the stuff they were doing with the venom suit and the sembio and all that stuff, like it seems up your alley a little bit. Ran Craven seemed alright. I liked the idea of him like hunting other super villains, and it's a very like World's Most Dangerous Game thing or the past. You know, it's he was all right. I had no

I'd never heard of Craven before this one. Never heard of him. He's never like in a game, or he must have been in some Spider Man games, was he? I've only the only Spidering movies I've seen are the Tobey Maguire. He's never been in a movie yet, but he's Sony's making a movie. But he was fine. I thought it was all right, It's fine, but like none of that stuff moved the needle for me in a way that were like, if that's all I had left, I kind of. I was fine, just being like, all right, I'll set

the controller down. I enjoyed my time with that. So you're gonna finish it or not? No, I can't imagine. I mean, I stopped this was a week ago. I stopped playing. I was, I was. I love this game so much more than I thought. Really, yeah, yeah, where it's like the last two games. I remember enjoying those games and liking them, and I went back and checked, like my top

tens for those years twenty teen and twenty twenty. I was like, there weren't any either the lists, Like it seems weird not to be in the top ten. And so that's why I was so confused, because like, man, I'm loving this so much. I feel like I needed to recalibrate. Did I was I underappreciating how good those games were and just how solid and fun or is this just on another level? And I think just the animation work swinging around everything is so smooth, Everything's so seamless, like it

is blowing me away. I mean, I think it's one of those impressive games ever made. Like I think just the level of protection going into this thing, it's ridiculous. Yes, And the stuff it does with like the switching characters and stuff. It's I just looked up my top ten games of twenty eighteen. Where do you think Spider Man landed? For me? It feels like a number eight nine. Let's see what landed above it? Super Mario Party, of course, Super Mario Party, everybody, Rainbow six Siege.

You probably were streaming it. No, No, this is before I was streaming Maharty got me to play some of it. Okay, but yeah we played that together, didn't we. Oh yeah, think we did Spiral Reignited six, it's great. Stand by that, by that Astrobot Rescue missions. Stand by that. That's my number five. Okay, that's my number five. Two hit Man two, stand by that. Okay, uh Dead Cells number three okay, tenris Effect number two, that's my number ten.

Pretty high, but it's it's very good. But it's a number one. Got of War twenty eighteen. Yeah, there we go. Okay, so well is there where's red Dead two? Is it a TYPEO? I'm gonna look at the special mention, honor role mentions. No, no, no, that's well. We look forward to the redemption coming from you in a couple of years when you apologize for words and deeds. I don't think we're doing it's gonna happen, okay for me, Number or twenty teen. Number

ten was Tutus Effect. Number nine was Florence a like, uh no, I remember people talking about it. Okay, Number eight Drinking Quest eleven as happy as they were, like yeah that game good. Rule number seven sybnotica. That's good. That's a good number six drassiic World evolution actually stand a legend for the VR one. Oh oh yeah, yeah, you said evolution? Or is that evolution of the park Builder? Is it aftermath? Uh? The VR one? We will talk about the meda question in a bit

here. But I saw that I didn't know if it was yeh, which one it was? Then Astrobot, then Smash Ultimate, that Smash Black Ops four, Red Dead two Got a War. We had a very similar list. When was Miles Morales twenty twenty twenty? Okay, let me see that, okay, because that did that come out on PS five or was that PS four first split? Okay, yeah, okay. My number ten is orient the Willow of the WISPS. Number nine was cyber Upunk twenty seventy seven.

Interesting, Number eight was spider Man Miles Morales, look at You Go? Seven was Animal crossing thew Horizons, which, by the way, this new Spider Man will likely be on my top ten this year. Okay, yeah, yeah, I think all three of them will make it. Uh six, super Mega Baseball three five, Tony I f A Skater one plus two for Mario three D All Stars H three Last of Us Part two two, Astros Playroom and number one hadies and no ever's been asking for it,

So here it is our dumber This is me. Number ten, Spirit Fair, number nine, Astro's Playroom. Number eight paneled Upon technically released in twenty twenty on the Switch. Wait the like Super Nintendo paneled Upon. Yeah, it's awesome, it's great, the best super fucking fun I've played. I

haven't played it in a while. It's we should uh if we haven't been playing games on the internet at some point that Actual Life stream for Extra Paneledon, I'll play that age in a big cherity stream for twenty four hours. Technically give to the Max instead of Extra lifecause, we're giving you a smaller nonprofit that's helping out Foster because Annapolis. But that's happening on mid Max's YouTube

channel Saturday, November fourth. We're going for twenty four hours. As much of charity auctions, We're giving a week codes to people who donate all that fun stuff. The point is number seven, Jackbox Party Pack seven, number six, Crash Panic Good four. I gotta play that. You have played Crash four. I started it, I played like an hour of it, and it's it's good. It's very good. And it gets very hard by the end. I like a good hard platform. Man. You should go

back to Crash four. Okay, yeah, okay, the hot Xbox property right weird? Uh wait it's Xbox own Crash Yeah, they own Crash on Spiral. Now didn't that Crash Forward come out on play? Oh? Wait? Is this an exhivision thing? Yeah? Yeah, oh okay, I got it. Five is Haiti's four Animal Crossing three Last Ones Part two two Yakas are like a dragon? Is it on your list? No? I don't know if I played. I never beat it, but I did like everything I played. Weird Yeah, huh uh? One was seven remake of

course REMI oh sure, oh well sure. But the point is this New Spider Man is excellent. It's just it's God, It's Hooks and me in a big way, so much more those expecting Like I, it's rare that I've been as motivated to like get to the next mission as it was in

this and like that's spoiling any thing. There's there's one mission in like the amusement Park where it's like meet a certain character in the amusement park is like and I had to put the game down to like have dinner or something at that point, like, I'm so excited to see where they go with this. Is it like former villain? Yeah? Yeah, that was kind of I didn't Was he in the first twenty eighteen No? No, I don't

think so that's what I remember. Oh, okay, because yeah, I didn't really have context for it, but I thought it was interesting the idea of a villain and what they're doing now and like that was that was interesting? Yeah? Did you finish that? Er? Yeah, I did that whole section? Okay, Like I thought that ending was super cool, just like the fight, the arena for the fight for the ending for that side question was remember really like a little he's making a snow globe motion. We're

on video. I don't think help me help me here. We don't spoil it with the folks the place that you're actually fighting Dan he smiled it for Fox. Are you in a snow globe? Yes? No, I would have remembered that. Well, then you didn't finish the mission. I got much past that. I don't know one where you're doing all the carnival games and then there's Parris Wheel. Yeah, I'm talking about the villain's side missions oh, I didn't do that, Okay. I wonder if it's in like

a snow globe or something'd be cool. Jake, I can't believe Ben spoiled that. Okay. I will say in a long time yeller about uh games not making me feel any emotions or anything. I I weld up. I welld up playing this game. I did. Uh the side mission, the fine Grandpa one isn't that great? It's and it's a side mission. I won't unlike Ben Hanson, I'll respect you folks at home. I was some random side mission or whatever. Okay, sure, let's jump in there.

And it's already from the very beginning what you're doing and finding and following. It's kind of like, oh wow, this is really this is kind of interesting. And uh, I don't know I could. I could empathize with certain parts of it. Both it deals with like an older relative. It also deals with you know, like you know, his story and love and things like that. Man. Yeah, that's the thing. It was just such an earnest thing. And the way they shoot this scene or it's it's

nothing as much as this game. I didn't love the big spectacular moments as much. The big cut scene or the big you know, like the opening stuff or whatever, the set pieces. Dan's torture through his twenty four hours

of playing this game by this ten minutes experience he just can't get. But that's indicative, that's emblematic of like, like there were a lot of things that were like that in this game, but this was a quiet thing with no camera cuts and it's just straight up dialogue, and someone who's not a big talkie game guy, I was just like taking that all in. I was like, I was like welling up. I was like really like crap

by that. Yeah, And I was like, holy shit, like these quiet little moments you wouldn't expect from this big budget Like this game has a ton of heart. It really really does. Yeah you know, yeah, I mean I thought of all Systems Goku while playing this game of just like Man Miles, he's just a good kid. He's like a Denday out there. Like it's just it really got me emotionally. Hangs Day. Then Day is the little the Mechian little boy that you and Jeff Crispin said four hundred

times was just a good kid. Oh okay, he he was on h friends. He looked like Piccolo, except he was a kid. Okay, yeah, does he die or something? No, he comes to Earth and he rules Earth. He's a cool he's a cool guy. He rules Earth, remember correctly, I think so, he's on the lookout tower in z. I think he's ruling Earth. Oh boy, he's a cruel dictator. I could be curious to do a recap based on memory of that series. Hang on, let me look Den day job job Uh. I mean,

yeah, he's the Earth Guardian after every coming past and that happens. Yeah, because remember Piccolo fuses with Commy. He's kind of the old Themechian and he gets more powerful. No, I'm just a change color or anything, or no, did he change his look? I don't know. There's throughout the entire socket. There's so many times where Piccolo's like, no, I'm just a strong because everybody else, and everyone's like, okay, that's nice,

and then he's left in the dust. Immediately. I remember him blowing up the moon, and that's the only thing I read. I could point ai Mountain police line up and I remember him blowing up the moon. That's the two Would you ever should I say these curse words on the internet? Go ahead Scandal noted would you ever watch the dragon Ball super movies and record

commentary tracks for them? Because I would not say never. The first movie I think is I like all those movies, but the first one I think is just perfect, pitch perfect for like a Legac sequel type thing, like we're bringing these characters back and we're just gonna have fun with them. It's gonna be silly and fun. It's so fun. I don't like to say never do anything, Okay, right, all right, except for coming around on Red Defredemption two. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah, But I

mean you're talking about the sweetness of some of the side missions. That mission reminded me of a mission in Red Dead two where Arthur's the none thing. It's the none thing. I remember Brad talking about that at the Game of the Year, and I don't think. I think my guy was a sociopath, so I didn't see that. I think you had to be like a good Arthur that right, beause Brad was talking about howmuch it affected him emotionally, and then you said, hey, Brad, open up that coffee cup

late. I got a fart, bruin. I was past that. I was long past cool. Yes, Hey, I just relate to your world. Did you think J Jon and Jamison in this game a little Vince mc man in him? Did you pick up on that? I don't remember him being as present in this one as I do in the previous ones, and I thought, based on the previous depictions, he was always just supposed to be like Alex Jones. Oh, I feel like he's more Alex Jones.

I guess there's Look, there's some totally different people. Yeah, okay, the few scenes that he's into this game, I felt like I feel like they're they're modeling after Vince McMahon more than just typically like, okay, let's

just try and mirror it after j Simmons. You know, I I gotta say, we went on the back bike ride, and again, you being the incredible inquisitive questioner that you are, someone who's never actively watched rest in your life, you ask him about like the landscape and aw and Vince and Terry con all that stuff. Fascinatingly, you have listened to your power bombcasts and all that you lit. Jesus, you really have a fucking problem.

Oh really, you listen just so many podcasts you listen to wrestling podcasts. But yeah yeah wow, well gee yeah, or like if Phil Simmons is talking about her something but wowser's okay. Well, just all to say that you ask incredible questions and it was very fun talking to you about that. Oh cool, Yes, any further Spider Man cool, Hey listeners, you wouldn't believe how good this conversation we had two weeks ago. Was is this good hosting? Next time my people over for a wrestling thing, you gotta

come over. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the rumblest coming up. We'll have a raffle. Oh yeah, I didn't mind met. Yeah, I went to that the best. I frequently think about what you said. One time when I asked you about, like what you think wrestling is, You're like, I get it. It's one fat guy thrown down another fat guy. I said that, yes, fat guy on fat guy. You said it was a fat guy throwing another fat guys, Like this is like a

couple of fat guys like generally not. It's a weird take. I feel like you saw something a scene in a movie set in like an eighties wrestling thing. I watched That's wrestling. I watch Joe mcmire's Spider man and based all my wrestling knowledge off what what was his name? Bone? Saw Bone? So yeah, there is a world if I okay, can we do like a cultural exchange thing where you anything you want doesn't matter if it's an anime thing before trilogy and well let's let's let's say I don't know if that

is, but his trilogy intimidates me. I want you to I want to watch have you seen Beyond the Mat? Oh? Yeah, yeah it in college? I did. Okay, have you seen Wrestling with Shadows the bro Heart one? Okay, it's like an hour and a half, I think, and it's I think you would love it from a deck like you know what you're talking about? Who was it? Somebody blown up and there was

cameras there. They documented the whole thing. Tonight you were talking about it, and I was thinking about wrestling with Shadows earlier and I didn't bring it up. You were saying, somebody, Oh, Sam Bankmin Freed, the guy was writing the book about it. It's you know about the Montreal screwjob. You heard the radio Lap episode about that. They were making a documentary

before all that happened, so they had access and all the footage. So it's this there following yes, yes, yeah, yeah, and they're following Brett Hart during this and there's fucking like U see events walking down the hallway right after Brett shoot punched him in the fucking face, like it is fascinating. It is the screw job before or after behind the scenes. I would love to watch the Shadows of You. And then you pick something a similar

one off documentary about any fucking doc no, just anything anything. Well, we'll go with double find psych Honesty. I guess is that the one that's like eighty Yeah, we're gonna do like a two hour time limit on Okay, okay, all right, think about that. I'll think about we've got no time on here. We're neighbors now, so it's right, yes,

all right, yeah, yes. I spent so much of this game just being like my mind twisting, Like have I been undervaluing how consistent Insomniac has been since Disruptor on the PS one, Like, I mean, if we're talking current studios still going, I feel like we're talking greatest studio of all time. Insomniac is never Naughty Dog up there, Yes, night Dog is up there. I think Insomniac should very much be in that discussion. From here on out, we're talking about the blizzards, vowels, naughty dogs.

It's like Insomniac is right up there with Insomniac. I feel like you're very rarely, if ever, gonna get like a stinker. I think you'll get some eight's, you'll get some seven point fives. I feel like I know a lot of people love like the most recent Ratchet Clank. I feel like, I mean, Rachin Clanks have been like fine, but it's like, okay, I I've eaten this meal before, you know. I feel like PS four Ration Clank, that reboot was great, and that was amazing.

I loved and the PSI rit Rift Apart was awesome. I liked Drift Apart. Okay, that would have been in the eight range. But there's definitely, I mean, there's plenty of those sequels when it's like getting a little long in the two in each generation where it's like Okay, do I really need this? Yeah? Yeah, But overall, like it's hard to it was insomniac. No, it's a fuse. Oh fuse, So like a

fuse is like the worst of modern insomniac. And that was like what do I review that probably gave it like an eight or seven point seventy five or something out not was we've got outer or nots on phone device. You've you've heard that Ted Price Ted Priise song. I'm sure I've played oose of you. I've I've made other people making your games people, I think I think I introduced Grubb to that and Grubb really everything, and I like brought it

up to like grubbing Minati. I was like, you know, the Insomniac thing, what are you talking about? Like that is a deep cut that you introduced me to and we should keep telling Look up for Crazy Ride,

Crazy Ride, Crazy Ride. It's for their twentieth anniversary. I think they made this song about the full history of Insomniac and Ted Price is singing and playing guitar and it's I might be brainwashed because the awesome thing is I'm sure thanks to John Drake and the Harmonics crew, it's in the Amplitude game on PS four, which is one of my favorite games. In the game put

that song in the game. So you're playing the music notes of Ted Price Field by Die Coke and Beer. We're making your games and I've heard that song so much, and then there's like the community guy comes in for the rap breakdown, like, hold on, that's in the past. We got outer or outs on phone devices, you got we got NDA's for what you saw things, so fly you go cock on the It's all It might be the greatest song ever made out of nuts. Was their like attempt at I

think Free to Play Pokemon Clone for mobile. Oh wow, really because before they were purchased, I mean they were, They're trying. They're releasing all those VR games. Remember they released like four off list games like a Robot and yeah there's one Edge of Nowhere snow. It was like yeah, yeah, yeah, they wildly Yeah they're Varian Studio up until the purchase, I guess. But I'm just amazed by their consistency, Like never big delays with them, Like they get their stuff done. I know, I feel like

a businessman, you get their stuff done on time. But seriously, you think about like for the PS five, we've already had Miles Morales. I know that wasn't exclusive, but still awesome, and then Rift Apart and now this Spider Man, Like compared to every other first party studio, like they're just well and now with the Spider Man stuff. It is such a fucking hit and they are so good, like it's there. You know they've been

made men for a long time. But holy shit. Okay, I looked up the whole like game do people say gamography, you can say filmography is think Okay, so Disruptor, jeez I, okay, let's go through the whole thing. Disruptor, Spar the Dragon, Spira two, Rypto's Revenge, Rippedo's Rage, which was righte SPAR three, Year the Dragon. Then, of course there's something before PS two? Is it ration clank? Next we're moving on to PS two. Okay, ration clank, ration clank. Dead

Locked is coming up later. I forget what the second one was called Going Commando but stuff. Oh yeah, full Frontal Assault, Upper Arsenal. That was the first when I played. Okay, I'm getting spotty. You got to pick it up. What do I got? Dead locked? Yeah? And then we're moving on to PS three, so we got resistance and then the ration clank Future Tools of Destruction Quest for Booty, which is like that

weird like kind of like DLC type thing. Resistance to ration clank, Future Cracking Time or systems three there's Rational clack All for one, which was like, yeah, the co op thing. I remember that. The sound notion ever talked about it. It was PS three. Yeah, has that PlayStation move or am I thinking of the Heroes Unite Heroes on the Move thing where they had like all the different PlayStation heroes together to play PlayStation move. I

don't remember that at all. Really. Wow. No, it's a weird game where it's like Jack hanging out with Sly Cooper and stuff, and it's just like an All Stars Battle Royale thing. No. I don't know what type of game it was, but that's not even on this Wikipedia. No, it wasn't. It wasn't Insomniac, but it just they brought in the ratchet characters for you. Yeah, full frontal Assault, which I don't really know. Is that like the mobile deadlocks. It was like a Mobia type

thing. Right the left was multiplayers, the first multiplayer I believe. But it's like an arena thing. Okay, there's no doubt the name holds up well. Scandal noted outer knots fews hang and where was that? ORNs? Was that on phone device twenty twelve? On phone devices? That's right? Cock Off FEUs On three sixty. That's weird to see that. Okay, Into the Nexus, I don't remember that. The Restaurant Clank, Yeah,

yeah, that was the one. I think it had like some twer defense stuff that people don't Oh right, Okay, Sunset Overdrive, which is underrated. Yeah that's a great game. Uh. Slow Down Bowl, Yeah that was another. That was a cool game where they streamed the development of slow Down Bowl. Okay, twenty fifth things a weird one. You got to slow Down Bowl, Fruit Fusion, Bad Dinos, and Digit and Dash.

I've never heard of Digital Death all to me. I mean that's again that air of the game industry right where it's like we're scared of what the future is. Let's try and diversify from consoles. Let's try and make some mobile stuff, which we're gonna get to another one here in a second, after Ratchet and Clank reboot, which is excellent song of the deep games. Yeah games yet, I've never played that. But it's like the underwater metro Venia

that Insomniac made and no one talks about it. I think people just saw game Stop and yeah Boison, Ryan Cohen bring it back. Edge of Nowhere that way okay, now we're okay, now, Edge nowhere, the unspoken feral rights, Spider Rim Seedling on the Magic Leap one, Stormland that was a VR one. Yeah, strange lits on the Magic Leap one. They must have gotten some big contract from Magic Leap to make some exclusive stuff. Spider Man Miles Morales, Spider Man Remastered, Ripped apart, reten Clank,

Spider Man two, and oh the fuck they're doing that Wolverine game. Yeah shit they are. That is undeniable. Yeah, consistent since the nineties. Wow since Yeah, I haven't played Disruptor, but assuming that's alright ninety six. Holy shit, have you ever seen the FMVs in Disruptor? It sounds familiar. It's some good cheese stuff. Yeah, as a fan of Command and Conquer, you would like the fmv's and Disruptor. Yeah, stupid.

It's it's hard to argue that like that's and they are at the top, top top of the industry right now in terms of budget and success, And I can't really argue that. Sony Bottom in twenty nineteen for like two hundred and twenty nine million, which seems so low compared to what these Spider Ring games once you're making. I mean that's yeah, probably the budget for Miles Morales, you know, yeah, yeah, shit, all right, so number one studio of all time? Does Nintendo count? Oh that's messy,

it's Rockstar EAD number one. I mean sure you want to count Rockstar. I put overall Rockstar over Insomniac in terms of just importance and face stations in the valley, not consistency. Sure, there's definitely some weird stuff in Rockstars history. Okay, how many games? How many games has in sound Mak released since GTA five came out in twenty thirteen? Oh boy? Sincere counting

everything? Sure? All right, since starting in twenty fourteen. Sounds that over drive slow down, but we're counting slow down, Bowl Fruit, Fusion, Bad Diners, Dign't Dash, Gratching, Klangston, The Nowhere, Unspoken, paral Rites, Spider Man, Seedling, storm Lands, Strangelets, Spider Man, Miles My House. I'm not gonna count remastered, just like any kind of like Red Dead or anything, Ripped Apart, Spider Man two and Wo'll Brings not out yet, So that's seventeen where is rocks are not put

out in wild? Yeah? Okay, believe or not that probably too. I want more of the fucking rock Star that was putting out like they was just yet whatever. We'd man the Warriors, whatever we watched. We were coked up and watched the Warriors. Let's make a game off the Powers for the game Boy. Was that DM a design? No? I think it was a Rockstar Oh wow, yeah Onny Bungeee in Rockstar. Yeah. Weird

partnership right, uh yeah, unbelievable legacy here. Oh I forget I was gonna say, oh yeah, the Slowdon Bowl always makes me laugh because we did a game and former of those rapid Fire interviews. Yeah, and Leo did a rapid Fire with Brian Intehart, the great director for Spider Man. He directed h the second one and then one of those great games media to game dev. Yeah success fan. Yeah sure, it was a huge fan.

And so in that Rapid Fire, you know, like a game of Forfourer, we'd always just like pitch jokes going into it in questions and stuff. That was mostly after my time. I never like I would have loved. Were so fun. They were so fun, and so Leo did an awesome job. I just rewatched it everyview not long ago, and Leo just pitch perfect, and so Lee was like, all right, I'm gonna rapid fire some villains. You tell me if it's in the Spider Man game.

And Brian's like okay, and then he just rapid firing through all these Spider Man villains and then it was my insertion. So I was extra proud of it. But I shold him to ask if slow Down Bowl was going to be a villain in the game, and so he asked Brandon Darr slow and Bulls in the game and Brandantaire is like, no, what slodem pulls it Spider Man and he's like, oh crap, that's a Insamia came look you forgot did you keep that clipping? Yeah, yeah, that's in there.

Yeah yeah. And then and then Leo continues to go through a bunch of villains, and then he goes Adolf Hitler and Brandon looks at him like, oh my god, and then just goes history is Greatest Villain. His delivery on History's Greatest Villain is ten out of ten? Is that written? Or was that? Okay? I'd imagine I guess that's Leo. I don't know. Oh god, excellent fun. Anyways, Spider Man rules. Don't believe these naysayers out. No, I'm not trying to shit on it. It's

it's a very very very good game. It's doing some things better than any game I've ever seen. Yeah, it's absolutely which it blows my mind because like I, you know, I started all those old God of War games and everyone's like greatest opening of all time, Got War three, Like I've started that so many times, Like I just don't care until Get Care though,

like it was when War three came out, it came out. Yeah, I just big expectively doesn't do it for me for some reason in Spider Man, like I'm just so impressed by every aspect of it that it's just some emotional hook I guess. And maybe it's just I like these characters more than ever, like Crados, you know, like I just felt like that spectacle like around that like PS three, Gotta War Original Trilogy era was like it wasn't things weren't really trying that, and like the P well, I

guess God War was the only thing trying it on PS two. PS Yeah, yeah, it's like okay, so that PS two Got of War era is when that started, I think, and also when you started seeing a bunch of these quick time event heavy is kind of fun question though, Yeah, PS one greatest spectacle game. Great question, thank you. Uh. I mean so obviously Meddle of your solid was like cinematics. You know, it was the first thing that kind of felt like a movie. But that's

the thing. It was like that was so new. The fact that it even had like camra cuts and voice acting like that was the big Holy shit was that? Oh my god, it actually it feels directed? Is it tomb Raider? I mean the Dinosaur. Yeah, that felt huge at the time. Yea IQ in terms of like big three D stuff like you gotta see this well, I mean this is a wrinkle, I guess. But like you know the cut scenes in like Final Fantasy seven, right, and just like you got to see this look at what the game is doing,

and like those a huge thing. The cut scenes. Yeah, I mean they counted. I guess. It was like, yeah, if you're writing somebody over, like you got to see this game that's running on the PS one, you could show them a cut scene from seven and be like, oh shit, that was a fight Mari sixty four or stuff like that. Like yeah, but I mean that. I feel like God of War was the first to really do the like, oh my god, we're clowning climbing

Mount Olympus and killing gods and titans. That was just like super Action Ney Resident Evil. Yeah. The thing that killed me about Devilment Cry was that, like, holy shit, they're just letting you have infinite ammo. Like that was the thing. I played the demo that came with Code Veronica X, and it was like, Oh my god, it's just because I'm used to reston evil where every bullet is sacred, and then it's just like like you know, double pistols and shotgun juggling and all that stuff like that was

brand new to me. Like that that was the big takeaway from that. It wasn't spectacle in size Yoh, She's not only the baby Bowser Cross fight nothing better. Yeah, yeah, that's the one. How you feeling about Mario wonder? Uh you're were you ever in Nintendo jail or were you just uh jail crying like a little baby. It's the hardest thing I've ever dealt with. Yeah, no doubt. It's been pisking me off for seven years.

It looks amazing. I haven't playing it Dan, I'm not in Nintendo jail at mid Max, but as of the time this recording, the game isn't out yet. I know when you're listening to this, you're like, why are they talking more about it? But yeah, we have we have not played it. Yeah, I will be playing it NonStop on flights to and from Canada in a couple of days. I was blown away hearingbout it.

I was on the Friends per Second podcast last week and so that was before the embargoes up, and so I was like, I'm looking forward to it. I'm more of a three D Mario guy. But then the way they were talking about it's like, ah likely jaw dropping lea good just like he said it was, Oh god, yeah, it was so Gerard. The completion iss he said it was Yoshi's Island meets like, you know, Galaxy level variety, but then with the speed of like a warrior wear just

for like rapid firing. Different ideas like it's I hadn't heard that. That's the thing is everyone's saying there's there are like every Nintendo game. I guess, you know, mainly Mario. I guess you can say zoom. And I was just like it just feels like they have so many ideas that could be a full game, and they let you do it for a little bit and then they move on, and I guess like it's never been denser than it is. Mario Wonder. I mean that was like touch fuzz, you

get busy right where it's just heretime. Here's a weird thing, but just that constantly through every level. And the Wonders are a big part of that. But we don't need to. Everyone's playing it right now as you're listening to this, you know, so real quick. I just realized something. You mentioned the word warriorware, which just activates some part of my brain. You're doing, Uh, biggest chunk is us playing. You're doing the day

after it comes out, right, most anticipated game. Okay, and we're gonna have several people there and we'll get All we're gonna do is play it. Yeah what's it called? I can never remember move it? I just love that's right. Okay, So we can just drink and play with friends, warriorwear Anderson. That's all we're gonna do. Oh god, that sounds amazing. Yeah okay, yes, yes, okay, anyway back to Mario.

Yeah, I'm so happy that, Like, I feel like I've got the best possible scenario in which whenever I fly, all I want is like a game that I can just kind of get wrapped up in, and like I have the flights where it's like, let me just download a bunch of stuff and see if I like anything, and I'll start a bunch of games

or whatever, and like it's it's fine for distraction. I don't like flying, but then it's like if I have a game, like or when I was in a Vampire Survivors, I had a flighty, it feels like time travel. You know this. It's a fucking Mario game, not a mainline one, but it's a Mario game, and I get to play it the entire way to Canada and back. I don't. I just I don't want to go to this rabbit hole because I hate this rabbit hole and I want to fill it with it. It's almost like I had a like an hour

and a half fight with Grevin Manada today on stream about that. But you don't have We don't have to, but you don't consider Mario wonder it mainlind Mario game. I do not, Okay, that's how we do it. Okay, great, Yes, I'm extremely excited about it, especially like I love two D Mario. It's the first fucking video game I ever played. It was Mario Brothers, Yes, and the whole new Super Mario brother series.

That first one I adored because it was new, you know, pun not intended, but I played it so much that I of that in terms of I can't remember that had star coins or whatever. Get three. I

did everything you could. I played through it so many times and did every bonus thing or whatever new game thing there was, to the point where it's like I was just like setting arbitrary point targets where it's like I want to get ten million points on this run, and I would just play levels trying to get like every you know, goomba jump in a row and get every

coin just to get my points up, just to keep playing it. And by the time, like the second one came out and the Wii one, the Wi one was kind of fun chaos, and we're playing that game Informer, but it wore out. It's welcome pretty quick with that same art style. So the fact that this is like it's actually doing something bold and new for the first time since Yoshi's Island like the two D Mario Space. Help me, help me confirm if this is a real memory I have? Yes,

Please, let's go back in time two thousand and four. Yes, the DS, the mini games TSTs came out No four right? Yeah? Yeah, the mini games in Super Mario sixty four DS? Yep? Do I remember this? Correct? That they also doubled up and used a lot of those mini games in New Mario Brothers. Were those also available? I wanted to memory is New Super Mario Brothers had a multiplayer mode had blue was

it a blue shell power or something? It was like you're racing to collect It was kind of like a take on the old Mario Brothers arcade game where it's like you are collecting five of these little stars and but you can knock them out of each other. There would be really fun. Yeah, but it was one of those things where it's like, this is super fun. But how many times am I gonna like have someone near me with a DS in the game or whatever? I think you just needed one to copy of

the game. I think. So, yeah, that was so nice. Yeah, that was generous of them. Yes, yes, yeah, maybe am I? Oh wait, so here are all of the mini games and you could be Mario Brothers. So it's Snowball, Slalom, Lack of Two, Launch, Danger, Bobomb, Danger, Whack a Monty Balloon Racing. They had all these games that all sounds like Mario six to four mini games like touch based, Yeah, Trampoline Time, bob Bomb, Squad Bounce, and Trouns. That sounds I remember trying, like the trampolines. Yeah,

I'm guessing they were there and I never touched them. But there was the like versus mode thing. Okay, I played a decent amount. Okay, this is River to Pintendo. Isn't it to like double up on those? If my vague memory is correct, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, it seems really pretty bespoke with their stuff. Anyways, I hope you're all enjoying that game as you're playing right now, and we'll talk about on the next they'll talk about the next fire Escape. Yes, I'll probably like that

game. Everything I've hurt, yes, Okay, so we did Spider Man, we did Mario Wonder, we got some embargoed stuff we can do. Well, it was in bargod But if you're listening to this, it's not obviously you've not played a City Skylines two. No, I love the first

one, though I came on late to it. It was when I got the PSVR two and I got City Skylines VR and I started playing it and being like, holy shit, oh right, I used to love SimCity and it kind of like I've not played a game like that in a long time, and I was like, wait, why am I doing this VR? I hate VR. Let's you know, get the actual PC one And I dabbled with that a little bit, but I stopped because the trailer came out

for two, and so I got this one. I'll be honest, I didn't play enough of the first one to be able to tell you clearly like this is where this one's better than this, or this added this or that.

And I'm kind of an idiot with like I'm still in that like SimCity anys thing where I'm just like, all right, I'm putting now my residential, commercial and industrial zones and like, I don't know if it's the build I have, but like all these signature buildings I can build just like immediately they seem like things like remember some City two thousand had the weird like or two D two looking buildings with like you can mean with the glass and everything

that might just be in a really built thing I've gotten. But I'm still trying to figure out, like, oh shit, everyone's complaining about the pollution. There's like a Twitter, you know, ticker on the side, and everyone's like, oh god, I'm dying of you know, the gas, and I have to figure out reading or is that actually like an in game it's a chirp or something. It's something like, I guess my joke was so toxic these that that type of thing people would be saying, Oh I

see what you're saying inside joke. Really Yeah, yeah, I refuse a call it X person is everyone is softer now Every once in a while, I like look at it and be like, I just don't even like I feel like like ten percent of the people that you interact with are on here. Yeah. I've just noticed dms aren't really being responded to nearly as much as they were in the best for like reaching out about interviews and stuff. So it's like I started paying for LinkedIn for like reaching out for interviews at

mid max, It's like people are on the ball. LinkedIn clean, wonderful experience. I like that I like LinkedIn. Yes, uh, City Skylines. I don't have anything, you know, as someone who isn't good it's good, it seems good. Okay. But again, I want to make it very clear, I didn't play a ton of the first one. I can't do a lot of comparison stuff. I'm just I'm having a good time building Birdletown and trying to do my best with it. Yeah, and not

in the artists too, claric. No, I'm just playing on Steam Okay. Yeah, I'm looking forward to playing that I played. I had a weird thing I love. I've told you this, Nay. I'm obsessed with the soundtrack to sim City twenty thirteen. Wow. One of my favorite soundtracks of all time. It's so freaking good. Really, we got the composer to create the intro theme to the mid Maxio podcast. Wow. Yeah, yeah, I really love it. And so I played so much City Skylines.

But I had the music down in City Skylines, which is good, no doubt, but I had it muted just so I could play the soundtrack to Simpson twenty thirteen while playing City Skylines. So like, my memories are all fused together in a confusing way of that game at that time. Who's the composer? Yeah, Chriys Stilton. Oh Chris today literally a few hours ago, was in the chat watching me and Greb Minotti and agreed that Mario Wonder is not a mainline Mario game. But yeah, I was gonna say,

I thought that might be Chrystilten. I think Crystiltan's very smart. I don't think I like this cent trick actually, I think this is a city skyline centrac' is better though, OK about Crystitan' say, yeah, he's great, very smart. Yes, so that game seems good. H I'll do a light lightning around here. Uh. Pay Day three we played a little bit of jollym. I never played a lot of pay Day before. It seems like if you get a crew together and you're actually like kind of it's

it's fun. It was fun. Uh. They've watched a lot of The Dark Knight. Uh little Gator game? Did you uh? Played on something

new or something? I don't know if it's nuanced. No, I'll tell you why I I just played it is because I was had the plight to and from Maharty's wedding and I was loading up the steam deck with stuff, and I had just gotten a code for a Little Gator game on Xbox, so I think it just came out on Xbox and it made me google it and I was like, oh shit, it's been out since January or February on Steam. Put it on Steam Deck. Played a good chunk of it

on the plane. Very fun, very charming, very It's very key referential, like, hey, we played Zelda. You know it's oh they love float gliding and all that stuff. It's very low stakes, have a little adventure, nice, nice three D look to it, Hey Dan, very important. Do you think Chia's going to make your top ten? Where'd you land on Chia? I liked it a lot. Yeah, I feel like it kind of fell throughight our fast, but it was a cool thing.

It. I feel like my first thirty minutes with that game were like revelatory or so like, oh my god, this is so fun, this is so beautiful. I love being able to jump and do all these like spins and dives, like turning all the animals and stuff like yeah, like heart will go along way with me, and that game had a lot of heart totally. I think I started it on PlayStation and I had some issues and I had to restart on Steam. Yeah, and I don't know if that

kind of halted some momentum, but I think as I played more. I played a few hours of it, I didn't see a ton of like direction of like just in general what I'm like. I would travel and unlock stuff. You know, here's a new port and I found this fun character at a farm or something, or I have it at a bird and I took a shit or something like. It's had a lot of heart, but I didn't feel any kind of poll to kind of keep me going through it, you know. So I don't think it'll make my top ten, but I

thought it was. I'm very very happy that game exists. Yeah, I remember the weird thing where the creative director was a he was a big replay and super replay fan. When I talking to him, yeah, he's very very nice, Phil, Yeah, Phil Krefel, Yeah yeah, yeah,

very very very nice. So Reache ducked him. Bianco was a GDC and met him, and I think that's maybe how I heard about him being a big giant Bomb fan or something, and I reached out to him and I just had a little quick back and forth and he was just very delightful person. Well that's nice. Yes, rapid Fire, Here we go, Here we go. Payday is pretty okay, a little gator game fun, nice, has heart. Cocoon is maybe not a rapid Fire, little Samson,

very expensive, don't buy it, but it's good. It's not any as it came out twenty one years ago. Thirty one thirty one years ago. Oh we met year, Yeah, you want to do Cocoon or middle of your first let me get my cocoons. Have you played Cocoon? Yeah? Okay, how far are you? It's a short yeah, probably an hour and a half. Yeah, anyway, And I think I think it's a cool thing, but I didn't really feel, to one a bit of distick

with it, but I appreciate the hell of it. It does feel like this is the this is a successor to play that, you know, like this is the next game. If you love Inside and Limo, you should check out Coccoon for sure. It several times pulls off that like aha moment thing that I think is kind of rare, or like the first time that I kind of grabbed an orb and got sucked back out to another area.

But I could see that like, oh, the laser is passing by that that is still happening in the background, and then when I when I go back down now, Like it's hard to describe if you haven't played it, but like there's a lot of like warping between areas and stuff and realizing like, oh, if I put this item in this thing in this world, in this orb and then I think Men in Black, the end of Men in Black, when everything's in marbles, you know, and then I carry

this marble to this other thing, then I can get this item past this thing that's like normally blocking my way. Like it's very hard to describe. I feel like Mary did it on the last episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and her enthusiasm. Fo he got me to check it out. It was great, seem that game, great flight game. Yeah, but yeah, it's not one that like like while I'm playing it and I'm discovering like the solutions to the puzzles, I am definitely like, oh,

hell, oh, I get it now. Like you will beat your head against certain things for a while and then you'll have that moment and feel really cool about it. But when I'm not playing it, I'm not like actively thinking about it, and I do wonder now that I have, you know, like a bunch of like Mario and stuff like that coming up. I feel like I only have like a half hour left in that game. From what I've heard, I should probably just finish it. I have a lot

of respect for that game. It's it's really cool. Yeah, Metal Gear, Yeah, it's back, is it? Well, that's a question. So I went to a preview event for this. I haven't played the final bills for the master questionnaire. I've got to hear on PS five. Okay, yeah, so usually these Switch I remember're talking about the Switch version. It was a little chuggy, but it was like pre release, so it's like, I don't know how this is gonna run when it out on Switch

or anything else. But it was like the opening of three Snake here, so which which was the one that like even on PS two it was weird because like two was sixty frames a second and then three was thirty. Like it's weird to see like a step back, but it's like all the foliage and all that stuff. You know, it makes sense, but it's weird, right that this game that came out a long time ago and ran at sixty on like the HD collections like a decade plus ago, like the switch

can't run that at sixty. It's weird, but I don't know, it doesn't seem like they're breaking the bank to you know, make it happen. It's really it's it's modern Konami for what that means. It's confusing. The folks who brought you Super bomber Man are two you know, and a contra rogue core. But it's just, hey, let's just assemble this stuff. Let's get literally the blue Point ports from the HD version, like it says copyright twenty twelve and you bowed up but you're good ports. Yeah, yep,

good parts. And then a couple bonuses heart in there, like okay, we have the scripts, not as much as I would like. I'd love to more like old design docs and stuff. There's like those books. Yeah, I don't know where those actual books and people literally asked them and I'm still confused about it. Like I have a bunch of metal gear books up there and I've never seen. But if it's like all new stuff, you think would be build a little bit more of like we made a e

book. But yeah, it's it's straight up like it feels like scans. It feels like, yeah, digital clips or like scan the stuff. You know, Yeah, you enjoyed it. By the way, this is the backup recording instead if you care dead. Okay, well you did that just happen? Yeah, I think so. Let me just slide a phone out there just in case, but we should. I've got two recordings going right here. I'm a pro here. I'm impressed. If you got one recording,

you got none, that's right. Then he taught me that that's wise words. Uh, or we're just saying metal gear. You know it's wrong. Oh, it's right, fine, it's uh. Why are you still hesitant? What's going on here? Hesitant? This might just be a me thing where it's like, I'm very happy that there is an easy way like meddle eear solid one. The last time it was easily playable was you could

download it on PS three and I remember playing. The last time I played through it was on the Vita, and even then you had to like do or maybe a PSP I think it was the Vita. You had to do a weird transfer thing to make that work or something. So it's been like over a decade or close to a decade since you've been able to like play middle Er Slid one legally. But I don't mean to be a snob or anything. It's just my preference. When I play older games, I tend

to prefer CRT original hardware or a Mister or things like that. Now, so I want to play with the dual Shock, I want to play uh, but that's not This is not a quality judgment on this thing. This is like, I can't expect everyone to be buying fucking CRTs and mysters. So basically you're happy that it's No, it's and'll they have like integral, they have VR missions, they have that's I did not know they were going

to have like digital graphic novel NPR missions. I thought it was going to be Yeah, I thought it was one, two, three, And it's just the is it the NES versions of No? They have MSX. They had the MSX stuff of one and two and Snakes Revenge and the NES metal gear yep, yep. They don't have Ghost Babbel right the game game Boy Color one, but they did call it volume one yep, So no, Volume two is just gonna be Ghost Babbel excellent. Yeah, wait, volume

two is what ghost Babbel four if they can figure that out. I asked, you know, I asked him, like, is there stuck like the brand guy, It's like, is there anything that you can rule out for future collections like twin Snakes like writes nightmare, I can't imagine that would ever come to anything. And he's like, just because the Nintendo stuff in there? Yeah, yeah, and perhaps I just you know, take Yoshi out

of the Great Box Room, you know, take maxxco. Man's not talking about like I feel like, look again, I've never made a video game, but like it doesn't integral to uh, you know, it's not integral. Yeah, and you know their answer was like nothing's nothing's out of the realm of possibility, you know, so acid portable opps. I would expect like those to be in there, Like again, I did not expect digital graphic novel to be in there. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah,

no, it's good. I'd look metal here near and dear to my heart, I want that to be as accessible to everyone as possible. Put on every fucking console, put bonus stuff in there. It's got it's got the music player stuff. I like how you can like every song. I was kind of like kind of limited from what I saw, I couldn't. It seemed to me like it was like when I was looking at the middle Gear Solid one book that I could play like the Metal Gear Solid one tracks.

I think it's like siloed so you can play Snake Eater when you're looking at the Snake Eater book. Was snakey Ter running okay? Was it running at six? Yes? Yes? Oh so I did play Snake Eater on PS five and noticed no problems whatsoever there. So it's are you just being a song about the CRT thing? I don't know why would make it extremely I'm not remotely being a snobbyer, but so what's holding this back from being a

big victory in your mind? Like, hey, metle Gear's back, everybody, No, Like, will you say the words into the microphone Metal Gears back. I feel like that would be if like Kajima came back and it was working on like some new thing or remasters or something like. These are solid parts of great games that are now accessible to more people, and they've got some little bonuses and stuff that are nice. Like this is not look

modern Konami doesn't have the capability. It seems to do anything that matters, right, Like what was the last thing they did of any important? They have been releasing really weird little Steam games like crime Parasite like games or new games. They're just publishing new little games on Steam that quickly fall off the radar or barely on the radar at all. I really liked their Teenagement Turtles collection, but then a lot of that's just as they know what the fuck

they're doing. Yeah, they or the Atari stuff, the Turtle Chronica stuff. I don't know what the fuck that is. Like, That's why I know everyone loves it. And I'm as a preservationist in the game history guy and everything, I'm sure it's very important. I just don't know what Caroteca is. Like, that's the point of the game is to teach you, Dan, But what if I don't. I've never thought of it. I don't. I don't. I've never thought of this before, So why should

I learn it. I like learning bonuses and nuggets about stuff that I know, you know, like looking at the metal of your book or something like that. Like that's a good way to go through life. I feel you start learning about something you don't know. Anytime I start realizing that, like this sounds like my dad, I should run the other direction, So maybe I should fucking try this out. That's what. Don't be like your father play through the making of Karatega. No, he's played it a lot.

That's all we will talk about. What did they include the twelve game? I cannot picture that. Yeah, I should, I should, I should, I like I like that. It's it's an interesting, weird, funky company this way. Ooh ooh, ooh, shit, what's happening? Let me tell you right now, man, you gotta help me with the name of it. They are releasing this game in mid November that I am really excited about. It's a co op co music platform. It's called like super

Rhythm Castle beat Boy super Crazy Rhythm Castle. Yes, yes, right, chaotic cooperative gameplay. It's fun. I played it with a group for like an hour at the preview event, and it's just a really fun local multiplayer like music experience where like you know, it's like, okay, you're running around doing some platformy type stuff, and then like, okay, in this

section in this room, it's completely different. In this room you have to get two people to play like this music track, but then there's gonna be like, uh, animals jumping onto the track and the other two people have to get off their notes to go like remove the things from the track. It's just it's a cool this wax experience when this comes in to hap me over. I would want to play through like all of it on a streamer. I really, I will. I would love to do that. And

the name of it One more Time is a super crazy rhythm castle. Right it is from Konami. Okay, yeah, like November thirteenth or something. Well, this has the crazy backwards stuff, but there's not a fourteen month, so I assume it's November fourteenth, Yes, okay, great. When was that game that you showed me at two Dcon with the like you grab the thing and you bang against each other? Oh, panic something? Yeah, the Namco. It was an archaic game, you grab. It had

two It was a giant cabinet. I want to say Panic Room, but I don't think Jodie Foster was evolved in. It was David Fincher. But you're just banging mini games. Yeah, I know. I was doing another. I was I was going to one. You're banging the fucking things against each other. And you're like physically like pushing and punching the controller towards the person you're fighting. Yeah, and that was very fun. And I love those games that you just can't emulate. Panic Attack, No, no,

no, by the port, do me a favor. This is very short. Before we leave here tonight. When we're done, let me load up Panic or point point blank. You've never heard of point blank? Point blank is Namco light gun game. I'll pull it up on the CRT. I got the gun cons. We gotta check out point blank. I've had a note on my phone to show you point blank for like four months. Okay, okay, uh, Panic Park, Yeah that was it? Yes, Yes, okay, yes, yes, don't don't let me forget point blank.

Okay, what we're talking about? Mental Year, Yes, Metal Gears back. Hey said it, he said it. I'm not being a stop. It's good that it's good that it exists. I hope people play. I don't understand this tone. Okay, moving on, all right, we got it. I'm just trying to convince you that I like, there's no negativity here. I just yes, you sound economy sometimes just does kind of like the bare Bones. It's like, oh yeah, the bare Bones release.

There's some stuff in there, but it's not like I went through this stuff, you know what. I like. I remember when like Middle Year Solid four was coming out and they had like a special download of just like this interactive timeline of every fucking character. It's like it was a free download two thousand and eight, and it's like click revolver oslat and hears all this stuff. It was like the document of Mataries Sold two. It's right behind

you. It's sitting behind you. Yeah, And I like that type of stuff. They've gone bigger in the that thing I Meddle Year has gone bigger and deeper in the past with bonus stuff and subsistence and substance and all that stuff. So this to me is kind of like, all right, I'm just I'm just glad it exists. If you haven't played it, go play it. It's yeah, okay. Uh so that's metal gear. Uh Cocoon.

We talked about little Oh. Last thing I've got here is uh you saw this in the other room and asked if you could steal it from me. The meda Quest three. I gave you DJ Hero two for the PlayStation three Complete in box. The Meta Quest for two thousand and nine. Yes, yes, you you seemed to curious about it. You want to you want to miss a podcast host interview meing about the medicalquists. I'd love to talk about it. Yeah. I was in this room messing around with it

for good chung of today. Okay, and you had a good time, a big mix. I downloaded a bunch of stuff, tried a bunch of stuff. I was trying different things because I want to finally play through Half Life Alex. The space, I got to the laptop, I got all the situation, all everything's in place, and so I was like, okay, so how do I do this? Like a if I just wanted to play it, be if I wanted to try to stream half Live Alex.

And actually the streaming thing, like I figured out how to like you know, you can pin the chat in the corner of your your field of visually like that. That's not that hard at all. Actually, yeah, it's more me trying to figure out, like, Okay, so I can plug this cable in and this is ten feet long, and I can do the like link cable. But that seems funky. Why is this funky? Oh wait, it's telling me it's not a USB three cable. It's got the

Oculus logo on it, so I thought this is the right thing. So I confuse, this is a can of worms, I know, but the idea is Oculus headset, Facebook stuff. But you can play Steam games, so if you plug in a cable. Well, the big selling point I believe because I've had every Quest and the thing is when VR first came around, everything remember like the the Vibe and the first Rift, and everything was different levels of like, well, this one has to be tethered at your

computer. This one, well it's room scale, but you have to like install two censors in the corners of your room and be tethered. And then the Quest was the first one where it's like, okay, you can just download it here. But the first quest was very limited. I don't want to go through the whole history basically the Quest three, the big plus are the pass through stuff. Yeah, it's cool, way it's weird, so if you uh, it always reminds me of times like if you're having like

a lucid dream and you know you're dreaming. It's the definition of lucid dream. But like and things are just kind of warping around you in a weird way and you feel a little disconnected from reality. It's kind of like that because like I can walk around the house. I was literally like walking up and down between floors, like talking to Bianca, you know, playing with the dogs and stuff, and then I could just like double tap the headset

and be back on the game. It works. It totally cool. And like the PSBR two also is a good passer camera, but you're still your head and yeah, yeah, I mean PSBR two is also like good hardware, just didn't have any games or supporting games, but the vision, like when you're looking through the pass through, like the colors and stuff are there,

Like in The Quest two, it was like very CCTV. I mean, you certainly wouldn't be able to read text on a screen or Kyle saying like, yeah, you could like read your phone, which is yeah. So that's the thing. Is like when you're setting some stuff up, like you know, sometimes you're doing stuff through like the Oculus app on your phone. A lot of times you're like logging into something on a laptop water or in the case of Steam, you're trying to like launch certain Steam stuff or

whatever. You can see it. It's just like when you're looking directly ahead, it's fairly readable and not you can tell you're looking through something, but it's it's fine. It's like when you look in the periphery, things are just kind of wharping, or like if I'm walking from room to room,

it's like, whoa, it feels kind of fucked up. You're like high on something, all right, but it's it's leagues better than it's been, and like that's a huge step forward, because like that's part of why there's a lot of reasons I haven't gotten super into VR, but part of it is like that feeling of just being like super disconnected from the outside world.

Yeah, and I'm definitely intrigued, Like it does. It feels like for five hundred bucks, they're releasing this medic Quest three and kind of trying to steal some of Apples Thunder with Apple Vision Pro, which is thirty five hundred dollars, and so it's like, hey, we're doing the mixed reality thing

and it's so much cheaper just buy this. So the mixed reality thing that is the biggest thing in terms of like new stuff that my worry is, you know, like when PS five comes out and you can like download Astro's play room and they're trying to show off their fucking HD tickleballs technology. Where are the controller the stuff that like happens, the six axis stuff, the things that at the very beginning launch game Sony made stuff utilizes it, and

then nothing ever used it. Like I think Spider Man two does the most. I've seen some pretty good, Like when you'd the hover drone Spider thing, it feels like weirdly like floating in a cool way. Yeah. The part that got me is like the symbio like talking through it. It's like, ah, that's that's something I think I noticed that. Oh really, No, maybe I didn't get that far. I don't know I got the

symbiode stuff. Yeah, but yeah, I feel like Sony is notorious for doing that where it's like here's a gimmick and you're never going to see it past the first two months, Like yeah, resistance, you'll shake off a grenade tag or something, you know, So going there, Uh, this this three Seasons room I have right next to us, and it's just a big empty room. Apparently use it as like a meditation room. So there's like a meditation pillow in there and nothing else to move the pillow out of

the way. And then it does the where it's like instead of having to like just draw a thing on the ground, you just look around for a little bit and walk around pretty smartly. It's like, oh, here's your shit. And then you go to the next thing. It's like, hey, is this your walls? Do you want to move your walls? It's like, nope, that's where my walls are. That's good. And there's this tech demo in there called First Encounters, and it starts with you.

You're just seeing through the pass through camera and so it's like, oh, here's just my room, okay, walking around, and then like a little break in the ceilings, like you I saw the actual ceiling of my room, and then like it breaks through and I can look through and see like outer space. That's cool, man. Then a little tiny spaceship flies in and it lands in front of me in my room. It's not like that's

the big distinction there. It's not just a fully VR thing. It's it's like, oh, that's the room I'm actually walking around, and to the point where like as I walk towards it, I was like stopping, so I didn't like kick it and I had to, like I purposely like oh right, that's not fucking there. And then the walls, the actual walls that you see start breaking because these little like what's the star Trek, the troubles, the triples, the trebles and whatever you know sixty yeah, yeah

that one. These little fuzzy aliens start like headbutting the walls, and I think you can shine like a sea through like a black light type thing, and you can see them like like trying to get into your actual room that you're in live and then they'll break through and you can see through to the

outside like alien world. And as it keeps going, you're shooting them and stuff, and so like more and more breaking through and your shots are breaking away the ceiling and the walls and stuff, and so it's slowly transitioning from like you're in your room to like, oh fuck, I've blasted away all my walls and ceiling. Yeah, and I can see you know, this ringed planet up there. Some of the coolest gar stuff you've experienced since the

launch er. I mean, it's an incredible tech demo in the way that like every packs demo, I did of the First Oculist and all that stuff like blew my mind. But it's I have to hesitate until I see like games utilizing it in a meaningful way. Dude, I hear you. I was sold on the FBI podcast sorry, the Friends per Second podcast. It's just like an offhand mention of this game was like, well that is it's the best pitch for VR I've ever heard, which is mixed reality stuff,

but it's for learning piano. They have a game called Piano Vision where you put the Medaquest three on and then you're looking at a real piano and they have the notes coming down like guitar hero on. A real piano doesn't need to be It's it's not like a specific like piano, Like you don't need to put an overlay on it, and you can sit down at any literally I just googled it a little bit, but yeah, I think it's any piano and that sounds like, yeah, I it's I've I guess Sony sent

us a PSVR two headset before that. I never was tempted to actually buy a headset, but it's like I think I want this, like I will, I will invest in the medic Quest three. Hopefully they can send us one for free or I can steal yours, but I know it's gathering dust on a shelf already. It's charging right now today. I'll give you an

email addresser boys, I just want to play this piano game. Like that sounds like everything I want is like just to be able to play a piano, and like I feel like I'm good enough a rhythm games, like even though I barely learned how to play piano and then forgot it, Like if it's just coming down, I can do that, well, I know I can, And I think that'd be such a cool feeling, would be like really go from a zero at a piano to be like I can do this,

I can hit these notes in time, wouldn't that like you know, like Rocksmith was trying that right, Yeah, yeah, and Rocksmith was cool. I liked it. I think that that type of stuff is such a cool idea to learn an actual skill, Like I'd never heard of this piano thing. That's really really awesome, Like it's so weird, like oh, Meta released the Meta Quest three, and now I feel like I need to go buy a keyboard. Find some used keyboard on Craigslist or stuff that so

I can play this thing. That's the stuff that like, I feel like we haven't come close to anything VIR game wise. That's like making me want

to play any full length VR game. But the stuff I have looked for that I would love to exist in a meaning full way is like I look at the things that have caused me trouble with anxiety, stuff like highways with a public speaking, like a realistic depiction of like you know, oh, I'm standing on a stage and you can pick this size of crowd or whatever, and you know, I can go through a speech or something like that.

Or here's a realistic like you know, maybe filmed with three sixty cameras and a car merging onto the highway and driving or something like, I don't know, like something that actually mimicked reality in a way that could actually kind of get yourself like you know, the whole like cognitive behavioral therapy type stuff

of like working your way up towards the real thing. You know, I feel like that could be pretty helpful because like it's tough with something like like with me, Like, look at those two things that caused me anxiety. The highway in public speaking, you can't just even if I want to expose myself to that. Well, I mean you can get on the highway, yeah, but the sticky like and for the record, I am driving on

the highway way more now. But like it was very intimidating to be like, if I'm terrified about merging, there's no like way to ease yourself into that. You just have to fucking do it. And like it turns out that as kind of the answer is just to do it. But it's terrifying, and it would help to have kind of that, like say on ramp in public speaking and stuff, you can't just unless you just go start yelling at a public square or something. You know, a public speaking would move

a needle. Yeah, And I don't know, I have not I would just like to try something that was making a good earnest attempt at that. Yeah, And maybe that's a pipe dream, but you know, like I

like the idea of that type of stuff. So anyway, like something like learning a real skill, like playing piano, like that type of implementation of VR is so much more interesting than me than like, Okay, I'm starting the twentieth game where okay, here's a while, like people talking to me as I walk through, and oh, pick up the coffee cup and you can throw it. You know, it's like I want to start and have my blex. I've heard over and over that that is the the one,

like real deal, non gimmicky VR game. Yeah, and so that that's the that's number one on what I want to use the Quest three fore, I just I'm jealous. I just ordered a sixteen foot cable because apparently I had the wrong one. So yeah, but yeah, I tried other ones. I try to walk about minigaal tried and expect you to die three less mills, body combat. You know, a lot of this is stuff that just like whether it's the PSVR two or the Quest or anything like that,

you know, I can see the benefit of some of this stuff. There's cool stuff where like do you know, thrill of the fight. It's like a punch out type VR game where it's just a bunch of kind of like cartoony boxing characters. But on the Quest too, you're just kind of I tried to play this at the old house and in a pretty empty room, but it's still like you're swinging and you're punching, and even if you're not sitting the boundary. You it just feels weird to throw a punch here.

I've not tried this yet, but throw the Fight added a pass through mode where it just puts the fighter in your actual space, so like I could be in this room boxing and see that column or that wall, so like that I want to really try out. Yeah that sound fun. Yeah yeah, so uh yes, it's gathering dust. I just you're like, you know, like, go back into my storage. You need to see there's any peripherals for the extra life stream. Went back there and I saw the

thing that I'm desperate to play in the box. The shoot thing is used. The shoot thing. I'm sorry, I wish I could shoot your vocabulary shoot gimmick. I'm sorry, Okay, thank you. Uh yeah, so that's when I met a question. I feel like I'll probably have more updates on that as it goes on, because it's it's a technology I've always wanted

to be cool and for me to use. But every time I get a new one of them, and I feel like I've had them all now, it's just been like, Okay, this is going together test quickly, so just wait until they released that gj S and Andreas version. Remember they announced they're making that the Oculus Meta is making a remake of GJ and Andreas for VR and a half Ago or something. We gotta remember Jason Rubin is leading the Games Initiative over there. So you think of what games are kind of

war, you know what? Can you imagine coffee and VR? Now we're talking baby, So I be the micro role on this podcast apparently the micro Oh oh yeah, just the resident pervert. I guess, yeah, yeah, I guess he is. All right, yeah, you guess play a highlight reel for the podcast right now. I guess it's him. Yeah, yeah, like well, well, you know, rip for them, but yeah, he's he's the guy. Yeah uh, that's what I got. Anything anything you're playing that. It's been Spider Man all day, every day.

Yeah, I love it. I feel like it's been a lot of me not being negative on stuff, and but I feel like I'm saying things that sound negative. You know, people do it all the time, and giving podcast it just it makes me laugh when because I think what you start, the way you start talking about a game is the way it's kind of perceived in the tone but mean, So I always to remind myself when I'm

talking about a game. We it's like, oh, you can have a thousand nitpicks, but it's like, by large, I love this game, like let's make sure to hit that first. But with something like a Spider Man, it's like I have had a wide range of emotions playing it, and the last one I had was I don't want to play this mission right, and so it's like that that is my last memory with it. But

I also want to make sure I'm giving it its credit. Yeah, Like do you are either of us specifically at risk you think of like, look, we've known some people who've done this for a long time who got very jaded, who got very cynical, like and whenever I've seen that even before I was in the industry, and I would see magazine writers be like, fuck, we gotta go to E three. I think there's a little bit

of it with this October release schedule. Like I hate it when I hear people complain in a podcast, but like, oh, this is hell hell month. But it was like that hell giuse you with fun stuff that you want to play. But to be fair, like you know, if you're like a guides writer, you have a lot of review embargoes. I'm sure that's a more stressful time than normal. You still have You're in the top point two percent of good jobs on Planet ears one hundred percent guides writers like

that is stress. That's stressful, and also like there are legitimate complaints I think folks like us can have about like like my experience with Death Stranding or Red Dead where it's like I'm trying to rush through game that's not meant to be rushed for the sake of embargo. You know, like that there's legitimate stuff there, but here's of the world where you know, the world of being jaded. I do always it makes my skin crawl a little bit when

everyone just like complains about too many good games coming out. Yeah, it could be overwhelming from the community standpoint, I get it. I like, oh, how do I play all this stuff trying to budget a YadA YadA, YadA. But at the same time, like when you're coverings and the games press sided of things, it's like, yes, don't act like you're being tortured my good games coming out everybody. I think the key is just

like if you know something's not for you and you're not feeling it. It's like like, for instance, Balder's K three is probably gonna be all over game of the Year list. It sounds like it is a masterfully made game. I played several hours of it. I saw that it was clearly very well made, but also not really for me, and so I'm not going to spend one hundred hours playing it when I could be playing other things. And I'm also not gonna like when it comes up and people are fighting for

it a Game of the Year, I'm not there. It's amazing, and that's when you just have to like, all right, like, yeah, that's gonna make it a high up on virtually every Game of the Year list, I'm sure, and like for good reason, yep, you just don't. You don't have to, Like did you ever feel like you had to play everything? No? I yeah, no, I like dabbling with a lot of stuff, you know, but no, for Ballers to get through

it just makes me laugh. Yet, because we're going through that right now at mid max, where it's like somehow the storyline came up and just the overall vibe that like I hate Baldersgate three, It's like, no, I think it's awesome. I just couldn't really get into it, and so then for new show plus this last week, the show was Baldersgate boot Camp, where Sarah and Jeffam who loved the game, watched me play the game and then screamed at me everything I was doing wrong and what idiot was and how

I didn't understand the basis of the game so I couldn't critique it. I'm like, I I never critiqued it. I never said I just said like, based on the three hours I played, it wasn't clicking for me. So it's a sensitive thing. So no, I think I'm okay if it's like this game seems great, but just not for me, and I'll move

on. And I support the hell out of it. It's awesome that it found its audience, and in neither of Russ like, we don't seem like cynical, jaded, the older vogues, right, so I'm working older. I'm Shurt's in there in a big way. We just don't perceive it.

But of course I always respected the McNamara approach of just the like the the five minute review or the five second review or whatever, where he would just like watch one of us playing some game that like seemed like a big release of the year, and he's just been around for a long time and seen a million of these come and go, and he would just watch for thirty seconds and just be like, yeah, it seemed like a seven point seventy

five. And that was like the extent of what he thought about with that game. You know, like I kind of respected that of like he's seen it before. He I'm sure if if it came out to like the staff was like obsessed with it and loved it or whatever, but all right, maybe I'll check this out or whatever. But like there are gonna be games that come out and it's just like yeah, all right, yeah it's one of these, you know. Yeah, I don't be too like, do

you think you need to play through livesa P? No, Okay, That's what I'm talking about, Like a big super Bloodborn fan. You know, wait, I like Blodborne a lot, but I played like thirty minutes of Lives of P and I's like, all right, yeah, yeah, I got it, And like I'm not going to say a bad word about it. That's exactly it. I think that's the thing. Yeah, yeah, just drag it down. Yeah, like a Red Dead situation or something. You know. Yeah, sometimes just fun though, Okay, punching up,

Okay, that's fun for everybody. Yes, hey, thanks for having me on fire Escape. You don't want to answer some emails? Oh god, no, I'll show you the door. No, no, no emails. You've heard the podcast I have, I have. Let's go emails. Love it. I'm gonna go beet. Why am I never on this podcast with Mary? I've read this podcast twice. I talked to her this week, and she has some strong thoughts about you, all right, very negative tell tales going to be here in person, and that is going to be on.

Yeah, she has to like pay a lot of money to change her flight back, so yeah, oh well we'll talk off cam about that, all right. Yes, yeah, she's not a fan. All right, Emails. Does Mike have a thing he says about emails? I don't remember. These are the emails for the show. These are the emails for the fire Escape cast, all right, High fire Escape Crew. The idea of talkie versus dewey games has been brought up several times in the podcast, and

I'm realizing how much adulthood has changed how I approach games nowadays. I've been having a harder time getting immersed in these fictional stories, especially this past year. Real worry constantly creep in and pull me out of the narrative moments in a game. But when I'm actually in control and playing, I'm able to get immersed and focus on the game itself. I also feel myself getting more

frustrated by interruptions of cutscenes and scripted moments. It used to be much easier for me to get invested in a game story, but now I often find myself mashing the skip button because I just want to get back to the gameplay. Have any of you experienced anything like this? Has adult life in getting older change how you approach games. Thanks for all you guys do. That

is Justin P from Youngstown, Ohio. Justin b Youngstown. Forever we've talked like this general idea and talkie versus Dewey, Like, I'm curious one thing. I don't know how much you've talked about it, but you've been your father. Now what shit? Yeah? Yeah does that? Let's let's shift to that. Like, have you felt, even at this young age that your child is at changed that the big thing is being able to pause a

game? Oh, so, like right when the kid was born, I played through all of my Fantasy sixteen and I was like, all right, well, I'm gonna bring the PS five upstairs and have it set up in the living room and just have the kid on my lap looking at me so they're not staring at the screen. And then so much like sixteen is a decently long game, and there were so many play sessions where I would just make it four minutes through cutscene, pose it for twenty minutes, and then

make another two minutes than pose it. Is just a lot of that, and so that's that's a very important thing. I wish it was universal that, like, you know, I feel like the three sixty era was pretty good about this, and Nintendo's pretty good about this. Or if you hit the guide button or if you hit the home button on the switch, yeah, yep. It kind of always no matter what the game is, even if it doesn't have a positive cut scene thing, it kind of gets you

there. You know, it's the worst when you hit that home button then go back to the game. It's like, wait, have things been progressing that? I feel like three sixty and Switch is pretty universal, right, Yeah, yeah, I think for PS five. You know, I feel like some other you think PS five positive, no matter what if you maybe that's just the trick, maybe it's just the home button. It could be

yeah, but like it's I feel like there was an era. I'd say, like the PS two era was terrible about this, where it's like a cut scene would be happening, and like a lot of games were starting to like, oh, I can pause this cut scene and someone's like, oh, I skipped that whole big story thing because if somebody ring my doorbell or a kid was crying or something. You know. I wish credits are more clear with indication as well of like if I skip these credits, am I

gonna miss an end credits thing? Or will it jump right to it? Because I like looking at credits the as much as the next guy. But then when you get into like legal of Sony Japan, it's like, what are we doing kind of Ubisoft game or something, Yeah, show me the big name, show me Tim Terror's name and the credits. That'd be good, ye, and foward down to the stuff. Fast forward is great.

Fast forward is great. I really appreciate the ones where it's like if you're not sure and it's a full screen cut scene, and you like just move a stick or something and down in the corner. It's like, oh, press this to skip, press this to pause. It's like, thank you for letting me know, like you could tell because I was moving something. Hey, new rule, everybody, Every credits should be smashed, brothers credits?

Is it too much to ask for? The Bill mar of the Gaming industry scandal noted, all right, hello fires, you answered mister youngster has adult life and getting older. Well, the TALKI versus doing. I understand that. I'm like, you know, you're looking at a cut scene. It's just not sinking in. I think play some different games, you know. It's not like you've abandoned storytelling in games. You know. Sometimes just like this isn't clicking. Sometimes you play a couple of games back to back

where it's like why do I just not care? And then something will come along like Spider Man and be like, oh man, all right, you got me. I feel like I'm the worst because, like I have never in my life been comfortable straight up skipping cut scenes. Yeah, but also I do the thing where like I'm in the middle somewhere, which doesn't help either where it's like I'm not skipping through it fast, but I'm also not taking it in where it's especially if it's a thing where you have to X

through a bunch of text. Yeah, like I feel like, you know, yeah, because the games I've done this, JRPGs, when I've played them, it's just been like okay, but like I'm reading every word, but I'm doing it, and that's kind of speed reading thing where it's like you know, you're reading a book and you get like ten pages in you realize I've been thinking about something else. It's that, but then like in a game, you can't just like, oh, take me back ten textboxes,

you know, so like, yeah, every word ature thing. I think sometimes I've done that. I was like, all right, let me captialize fifty minutes and then rewind just to double check out. I've never done it with video. I use it a lot on the switch with because it's so easy that one button screenshot capture where it's like Mario Wattasy, like here's this visual puzzle or a Zelda thing, like I gotta come back here. You know, this person said this thing, and I'll screencap that text.

You know that switched capture button. So great. Turns out they did a good job. That's just great. I should make another one. Great idea, they should make another one. So I, uh yeah, I'm kind of same. I always have been with that stuff, just my thing. Hello fire Escape. I was fortunate enough to partake in Mike Maharty's wedding last week. What it was beautiful. However, at the end of the evening, everyone went to an after party at a dive bar. I went to

the bathroom, but there was a line. As I waited, Tim Turry came up behind me and said, is this the line for the bathroom, to which I responded yes. He said, okay, thanks. What do we do when we get to the end of it? We stared at each other for a moment, and then I turned around without a word. We did not speak for the rest of the evening. Here's my question. Have you ever had a friend that tries to make you uncomfortable on purpose? Tell

me a good story about that friend. Love the pod Big fan Mary Mary wrote in with that, m oh, you've been on a podcast with Mary? You have? Well, I guess the mid Max show that counts. What do we do when we get to the end of it. That is a great At the very ti, I can yes, very much picture that

a friend the purposely makes you uncomfortable. I mean I feel like I definitely have had that, but in the way that it was like high school or college, and it was just a drunk friend who's constantly like nut tapping you and stuff like that, and or just like you know, yeah, just being like I had. There's a guy who worked with a manager, a manager at a place I worked at in college, and he would come into

the like when I was peeing in the urnal. He would come up behind me and take his foot and not kick, but he would put like his toe part of his shoe up like under my ball sack and just move it up. Yeah you know, and this is my manager and like cool guy stuff. Oh boy. Yeah, lots and lots of just moving my nutsack up while I was paying. So yeah, what the that sounds terrible? Yeah, it seems like he's a very successful, uh financial dude now or

something and he's earned it. Yeah he was. He was something else, I think. Oh yeah, he got like black eyed drunk once and like tried to kill me at a party. Yeah. Yeah, he's a frat guy he was, he lifted himself up by his own bootstraps and nutsack. There there you go. Yeah, so yeah, I feel like I just I mainly knew those guys in college just being like too much a lot of just these are two separate guys, the guys that was always tapped me and

the guy that moved my scrot him up with his uh foot. Glad to hear they're doing well. Yeah, oh yeah, one of it's okay. Yeah, I guess there's a fair bit of this. You know, it's like my friend Ronnie. I guess it's a lot of just stupid messing with him. I guess we kind of have that type of relationship or like my friend Jesse, Yeah, we'll definitely like push push it just for comedy's sake, you know, Like I know, I always think of this. He's

toned down a bit in the reason everyone's great, everyone's chilling. Yeah, not Ronnie, but yeah, yeah, Ronnie's out of control, fucking grants the problem. But anyway, universal references on Max just so many people get it, that's why. But I just remember one time, my friend Jesse always think of this. It's so funny. We're stand around my kitchen drinking, and he took a cap off his beer bottle and then just walked over to me and just like held my pocket out and then just poured his bear

into my pucket. It's just a hilarious thing that objectively very fussy. It's just the best so funny margin I part. I I realized that I was probably that guy at many times, and definitely that time. Tim Turry was barbecuing and then played a barbecue meat at your lakehouse and uh, I just pulled it out of the microwaven parted on it. Oh yeah, So he was like trying to prepare a meal for everybody. Yeah, and he sold it very It was very funny how he sold it, because no, no,

he was making it for himself. For himself. This was like a two and a half in the morning, two thirty in the morning thing where everyone else is asleep, and he remembered there was barbecue from like eight o'clock and he was just heating up and he was just standing by the microwave drunk, staring at it. And I just walked up, opened it, grabbed the plate, farted on it, and set it down on the table.

And Tim just looked so distraught, and he put his hands up on his face and slumped down against the wall and just acted like he just witnessed the massacre and it was kind of the best case scenario there, but no good. These are things I would not I don't believe I do now. I don't believe you're honor. I don't recall if I'm that guy outside of just like riling people up on a podcast or something like that. I don't think I'm like making uncomfortable guy. Yeah, well, so you haven't worked in

an office for a long time, That is true. I'd be farting on everything severy stapler. I misworking in office, but I miss it very much. So yeah, yeah, that's why if anytime, like it's in person thing wherever you hear when I've gone to mind max and stuff like, Hey, let's turned out we live here, so let's let's do that. Uh, next up. This seems to be a reference to another week. Hey, fire escape. Different parts of your tongue don't taste different things salty,

sweet, acid, whatever, better than others. This is made up. You can taste a salty pretzel or a fine a CeNSE. Heire the same on any part of your tongue. Don't listen to Mike's dumb elevated why no bullshit. He's clearly in the pocket a big tongue, drink a bud light and tell him to suck it. That's culin. I thought that was definitely going Paul record at the end. There no, no, no. So here's then Colin has added the source from the Smithsonian magazine about how this is

bullshit. And when I was putting these emails together, I saw several different emails source things saying like this is bullshit that mister Wine himself Maharty has fallen for. I love it because I have seen that diagram so many times my life of like different parts of the tommy and yeah, yeah, so that's just completely made up. I know you can taste salt anywhere, but I

guess I had this whole thing in like twenty years. I feel like that idea of here's a diagram of the tongue, different flavors, but under my tongue like a sour thing. I'll feel under the tongue more. But Smithsonian debunked. Yeah, there we go. I find, folks, have I been given Mike too much crap on this episode? I feel like that's time I was on fire. Scavest a couple of comments like, hold crap Hanson's

meaning to Mike, and I realized a couple of snide comments. No, That's one of the great things about Mike is uh he makes it easy to give him shit, right, and then when you do, he just rolls with it and makes it fun in a way like he gets it. And uh, yeah, you don't have to worry about that with Mike. Okay, cool, Yeah, not at all. So yes, I'm uh,

she's a tyrant, all right. I find, folks, what are some genres of games that you have no interest in at all as standalone games, but enjoy when they are snuck into games of a different genre as a minor mechanic or a mini game. I for one, have never played and probably never will touch, a dating sim, but I had to fuck everyone in Hades and Sturdy Valley. Balder's Gate three is the game of the year for me for the way they turned to all of us, turned all of us

into bear perverts. I hope you have a great day. That's Philip from Finland. God Dan, if you send me one more text on how much you want to fuck that bear. I just it's my whole thing. I saw the trailer and I lost my mind. That's what I said with a mask. Jim Carrey A gift of dear Twitter, did you see that bear? Five? Am erect finally something to fuck for? I have seen the trailer for Balder's Gate three, a video game that makes me horny. Where

do I give my money? Uh? I don't know why. The first thing that comes to mind for me is Undertail, in that I was never like, and I like Undertail. I don't like it's good, it's good. Why why am I doing this thing? I feel like you're bringing this

out of me. I'm gonna blame you, Undertail. I appreciated the way that like, I always had a real aversion to turn based traditional JRPG battle mechanics, and from the time I was a little kid and watching my cousin Matt play games, and like, I just like, why the fuck wouldn't you just press it? Why wouldn't you want to be involved in the action instead of picking text the way Undertail did that. But first of all,

the individual mechanics of it were like interesting. They turned into the little mini or bond hell thing or something like that. But then also the actual fight itself, there was like this interesting way to all like tie it into the story and all that, like I appreciate, Like that made me not dread that. Yeah, and the same way that like a paper Mario or Mario and Luigi, like just give me something to do. Even if I'm picking the thing where I kicked the shell back and forth from a menu, when

the shell is going back and forth, I'm timing stuff. I feel like the fun little mini game telling of that. You should check out Tomato Adventure in the game Boy Advance. I think I saw you were streaming this. I think I read you were something and you were playing that and that looked really it was Alpha Dream YEP, it's Alpha Dream, the game they made

before the Mario Luigi series. But every action in combat, like you're doing all these different moves and they all basically have a different warriorwar esque mini game with the moves. But it just makes you so much more invested in every single thing. But you know, see A Stars also has elements of that action combat as well. And I know you kind of bounced off that, but I did. But I love Marion Luigis so much yeah, is any of the humor? Is it translated? Yeah? There is an English patch?

Yeap, okay, I assume you have a ram of this if you played it. That sounds like a perfect analog pocket game. It does, yea, because I'm always looking for that and like every time I pull out the pocket, like I'm just in awe of that device. But I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna advance. Wars looks really good on here we started. It is one of the wildest games Inintendo has published. Like the

enemy designs in that game are freaky and weird. Like one of them I always think of is just like it's just like a baby with a pair of scissors, but then they're like cuts and bandages all over the baby. It's just every enemy design that game is just out there stuff. It's cool. I adore those Martin Luigi games. I adore the humor, the design, the look, the action of all that. Like, please please send me that, and that will be my go to analog pocket game. I don't

have the room anymore or anything. I mean, I'm sure to find it, Tomato. It's a cool. Remind me because I'm gonna forget in thirty seconds. I really want to play that. Oh that sounds great at least started. Yeah, okay, last one. Sure, Oh I guess to answer that question for me, it's like, I guess, like puzzles. If it's like, you know, a game that's nothing but puzzles, like

a that kind of drains me a little bit. But my first thought is it made me think of win Waker, how I love doing the slide puzzles and wind Waker where it's like it's so weird, like it was so annoying to a lot of people. I get it, But remember I went over to Ronnie's house when he was playing it. It's like, oh, can I just play all these slide puzzles? I think this is actually really fun just to focus on this one little thing. So even though if it's an

entire game of that, I'm sure dragged me down. But just that that little puzzle thing that's a self contained puzzle within a game like whin Waker, I'm all on board for it. I always despise those because I as a kid, I was obsessed with any kind of logic puzzle, any kind of like can I ever do the ones where that it was the grid where it's like Sally wears a red dress, but she'd never stands next to Bill, and then this guy will only go to like just were you could deduce with

logic. It's why I love you know, Sudoku across anything like that. These that we're talking about, slide puzzles, slide puzzles. I feel like I could never wrap my head around, like I would get to a point same with her, like rubikscues where it's like, Okay, I get this point where like eight of these things are in the right spot, but like, how the fuck I could never even just like grasp the idea. I'm sure there's some part of my brain that is not clicking with that, but

yeah, I could never figure it out. Yeah, there's still time for you to learn. Man, When Waker, if they put those HD versions when Waker Twilight Princess, at this point, they was saving for the switch too, I would think, right, I would think so. But then if they're getting out of the gate with the Breath of the Wild remaster, I know it's kind of like a tech demo rumored, but if they're really,

I didn't know there was a rumor. Really, the rumor is that they're showing a four K or at least a sixty version of a Breath of the Wild running on the switch to not tears. No. Yeah, if they launched that thing with in theory Mario Kart nine and Breath of the Wild remastered and a new mainline Mario, probably within the first year. God, okay, yes, yes, that's twenty twenty four is the current thing? You know what? I think we just convinced Dan to buy the switch too.

Might get into it, this wild dog. That's right, last email we got, how did I scroll up? Okay, high skbs. In your last podcast, you talked about how the little at a tip line is everywhere and it's awkward. At a college football game this weekend, go UW Huskies, I was talking to a guy working at concessions and he just straight up said, oh, yeah, that doesn't go to us. We get none of it. Don't use it here. Ever, how often is that the case? How was that fucking legal? How often is that line a

lie? I'm obsessed with this now. Also, punch Out looks more like a flash game than a Honda. Oh this is okay? Uh Joe in Seattle, that's right, But is he defending hollow night in there. No, I think he's insulting punch out. Yeah, there was something I went to recently where like in New York, I think, where there was like a tip line or something, and it was the most egregious, just like

it was something where there wasn't even a human involved. It was like one of the things where it was like I went into a place at the airport or something literally did not see a human being. Oh yeah, it was at the airport. It was at the airport, like Newark. And I went to go buy like a bottle of water or something, and no humans

in this space. And I went to the self checkout, I scanned the thing, I paid for it, and it asked for a tip, and I was like, wow, fuck you Like no, like, look, there are things where it's ippy where it's just like oh okay, this place that like no one's serving your table or anything like that, right, And I always do they'll like, let's at least do they like, you know, twenty or something like that, you know, like or something like that, he says, everybody. I mean, if something's like really nice,

I'll go more. Yeah. Yeah, I like to be it has to be egregious for me to go under twenty. Yeah. Yeah, I really appreciate that automated thing, like anything that takes the math out of my head. Like oh, especially like in the in the dating scene back in the day when you're making polite conversation first, aight type of thing, and I am the worst at math. Cannot do it, really really, really bad. Okay, thirty two dollars bill? How much is twenty percent? Thirty

the other bill? I don't know. I would say forty I would I would have tipped like eleven bucks. Do you know a trick or anything for it? People say you slide numbers? Are I can't? I just think this thirty two bucks? No, Dan, I don't know this, so I can't learn it. How many times you have to tell you hard, dad, I get it. So it's like I've had situations where's like on a date like uh huh uh huh, and I look down try and write the tip, and then it's like, oh, hey, now do the

math. It's like I don't. I don't know. I'll just write a different number down here that's higher, Like I don't know which number they're gonna use. But I connect to the simple addition because I just panicked jeezu. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of receipts. Now we'll have just the like you know, eighteen is this, twenty is this? But like the big fat fucking button when they whipped the screen around, like that's the way

to go. Yeah, well, what's your what's your like? Do you have a rule if it's like you go to a concession stand, like you go to a concert or something, and you go to buy a beer and it's a fifteen dollars beer and they whipped around and it's you know, like do you that just happened to you know, we're just ye's a stone driver? Yeah yeah, And I was like fifteen dollars beers or something, and

I was tipping every time and didn't feel great about it. Yeah, I mean that's I'll give some tip, But that is that weird thing of like, Okay, we're in this situation. Those person's working, Like you've handed me a thing, right, it's not a lot of money for one beer. Yeah, esp hearing this like it's just straight up like some of these don't go to them. That's the whole point. Yeah, I'd like to

hear more about this. If if that there is some Well, Joe is in Seattle, so you're about to be there, So okay, go for just ask around for Joe. It's mad about tips perfect. What do you so? What are you doing in Seattle? Uh? A friend's wedding. His name is psych Saharty. Okay, no, yeah, so going out there for a friend's wedding and then we're having a mid max community meet up. But by the time this is live, it already happened. But I'm gonna miss it by about a week. I'll be in Seattle. Yeah,

but there's a there's a Minnesota theme bar in Seattle called Pataski's. Is it near downtown? Uh, Freedmont area, So I don't think so okay, I mean not too far, but yeah, it'll be fun. So Kelson Lun lives out there obviously, so it'll be with folks, and so I should go there. Is that a pink Gorilla, Yeah, Pinkerilla rules. There's a couple of locations. Yeah, I've seen their their streams and stuff

like that. Shit I got her. I didn't eve think that. I'm only there for like a day and a half, but I've been I've been wanting to go there yeah, I should buy something there, Okay, you should. Yeah, different locations are great. I need to remember that, okay. Right. That's the constant thing of me is like anytime I think of something, I'm so excited about it right now and I want to do it so bad. But I know if I don't immediately like write it somewhere,

I'm fucked, you know. So sure pink gorilla all caps, okay, yeah, yeah, but it's ah ever doing the Commuity meet up because it's mid Max's fourth anniversary and this will be this episode will go up before you're out there, right, No, that's what I just said. No, right, okay, yeah, yeah, but that's fine. Yeah, so it'll be your fourth anniversary October twenty fourth technically, so that's still a little on the horizon, but yeah, damn we did that. Still slowly

growing, bringing in more and more good folks. I keep an eye on all this stuff, and I look at all the Patreon charts, and yours is the one that is consistently. You just move it on up. Yeah, it's us in the last and media, I think maybe, uh no,

there's the same same audience. No, but everyone's all over the place, and it be fair like those those graphs are a mess because for a lot of folks that started factoring in like the free follow thing on Patriots, so like you know, everyone got a crazy spike like in the last like yeah, but I keep an eye on the sto. Yeah, I saw several people like it all like went crazy, like what the fuck? And

then I saw it like the disclaimer up topic. Oh Patreon chains some stuff not just their logo and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it's going. The mid Max Show is our main podcast. If you're listening to this, watching this, you can check that out. That is free. It's not a Patron exclusive any or anything, so you can check that out or YouTube channel. A bunch of fun stuff going up there every week. I can't say enough about what you're doing over there, who you're working with,

what what you're putting out there. Uh, it is uh admirable would be to put it to uh lightly, it is very sweet. You're very sweet. We're not healing the world, but I do you think I'm proud of I feel like you're doing something like fucking earnest and real and it's not. There's there's not a single fucking thing that's fake about it. You know, every once in a while we have well they don't have to. Everyone sell you a thumbnail and I'm like, ah, this kind of gross.

Is it's kind of like reactions for the stupid thing. But you have a face on there. You know, everyone understands the game and what you have to do, and we all have to do dumb shit to you know, with an algorithm or something. You know, sure, sure, uh yeah, no. I think I'm proud of finding that sweet spot like One Up is you know my bell Weather for all games covers, like they were the biggest deal for me. Who is the most well known from that gold in

what you would call the Golden air now or back then? Let's say now, because I don't really know anything about it. I mean would Luke Smith from now he said Bungee? Would he mean in terms of like I I guess if they were both there, like those are both people doing the major I'm I mean, oh boy, what's John Davison is super high up at IGN. He's been every So when I think of John Davison, I think of EGM right, but he has been I didn't realize he was with One

Up or whatever. He was like all amazing days for me. I I talked to him at it was at Summer Games Stress this year. I I specifically I talked to Davison, I talked to Victor Lucas. I talked to guys that, like, you know, it's just like, oh man, they're still still doing this. That's cool around what's that do they say?

Jaden? No? Okay, no, no, Like I'm not going to say I know either closely with when they came by, I just made sure to be like, hey, you know what, you're part of an era that, like I grew up on and made me want to like do this shit. Hey by gun era boys come over here, old guys, they're

great. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, So the point is what I feel like, they they hit that ratio really well of like having fun, but also we're gonna try really hard to have some really intelligent conversations about games, and so I always feel like, okay, if we can hit that fifty to fifty ratio, you know, the deepest dives are big game club discussions, where we have the most throw discussions about these games on the Internet,

especially compared to most other outlets out there. It's like all they'll talk about on the podcast, maybe they'll do a spoiler cast and stuff, but being able to dive in, like, oh, let's talk about Final Final seven remake for seventeen hours Sodays. We're doing Allen Wake two. This is gonna be the next one. So that's coming up very very soon, twenty seventh, this week, this week, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh there's too many fucking jobs fucking such stout us cool. Uh yeah, So we're doing a three part game club discussion for that, and if your patron support or you can write in, we'll read your comments on the air because it's kind of fun because we have, you know, thirty five hundred patron supporters now, and so like tapping into that hive mind of like you play the game, tell us what you think, and then we'll we read almost every comment and you know, just like when you're taking that hive mind

and bringing up the greatest points from everybody, so you can have a really informed, fun conversation about a game. And so yeah, that'll be coming up soon here at midmex So if you're a fan of Allan Wake or you just like the format, please help support it because it's wildly impractical to talk about one game this much. There's a reason big outlets don't do it. But we can only do it because of a freaky independent system. We got

here thanks to Patreon. Well, I implore everyone, if you're listening to this, do what he says. Men Max, It's gonna go bad if you don't. There's men Max with two ends. Great crewer there. I can't say enough about them. Ben, thank you so much for driving over here and talking to me for three and a half hours. Yeah, I love it. I'm still gonna try to make you play a point playing for a second. Let's see what does Mike do at the end of this. So I guess we all do a thing new merge. I don't know if

that's still available, so you figure it out. Plug Patreon. We have a Patreon. You can get ad free stuff, you can get video. Look, if you're a video person, you can see what we do right now. We're thinking about the bear, thinking about what the bear? Oh right, Ray, we're horny by the bear. Yeah, yeah, yes, we gotta tip to our if you don't want to do the whole five or eight or whatever we have there and it goes directly to us, goes directly to all three of us. So, uh, we got socials,

we got all that stuff. I'm not gonna plug the rest of things that already happened. But evil who knows great? Uh, what do you have like a flawless That's what I'm talking about. Let's lay on the host take some notes. Mike I took a note. It's just pink gorilla in all caps. That's come all right, I'm gonna end this podcast. Ben, thanks for joining you bet yeah bye Mode