Fire Escape Cast #55

Hello everyone, and welcome. It's Saturday Night, episode fifty five. That's confusing because it's not now and this doesn't go up. This has nothing. Saturday's the furthest day of the week. From anything associated with this, you don't know when people are listening to this, Mike, How do you know when something's a twisty not a quirky thing. I looked at this and I confidently thought I'm holding a wine bottle, and I thought, oh, that's

a twist oop. I don't need the hardware. General rule of thumb is that the quark bottles have a cork in them, and then the twist up. Yeah, that's the thing, Like, look, there's no quirk Do you see a cork there? Video gott He explained that he was holding a wine bottle and it was a cork or a twisty, you know what I

mean. The video patrons are getting this hot video content now with me showing up generally speaking that I can tell from a distance that's a twist a twist off, like it's it's twisted and I do I have to I it might have a thing that I have to cut off. This is twist offs would not have a label over the top. Are you sure because it gets out a sword? Am I just weak? Hang on? Here? Yeah, here we go. I've got a hardware for what. Oh look at that?

Yeah? Why are you so impressed? You just twisted off a cap? Because everybody does that. It seemed like it wasn't a twist. This is this is just oh man, good radio. Still, it's all downhill from here. We're here. We're halfway to one hundred ten episodes, big milestone. I'm gonna say that every time. I'm just gonna double the episode from here on, I would say we're halfway. Um, we've been playing a lot of Zelda. We'll get to that later, or at least we've

started playing Zelda. Um, that's some of us just started. I don't like that you do that when the when the wine's dripping down the side that you like, just suck on the actual boble. What is the what is the alternative, mister wine? Because okay, I went to a wine bar with you once and I complained about this at the wine bar and you were like, oh, what, I can't stuck on the bottle at a wine store. No, it was at a wine bar with all these fancy people

that can't suck on my own wine. Yeah, so you told me, it's like no, no, no, no, Look, it's supposed to happen that way. Look at this bottle that the like fancy wine guy was pouring and it like it was like the label was all stained and the menu had drops on it, and he was just like, yeah, that's how

wine goes. And it's like, I don't want to just drip bullshit all over myself in my chair a man of taste in class, it's it's like, gentleman that you're doing it because you're the only one drinking from it. But generally speaking, I would say, like, at the very least, use your finger to wipe it up. In them link but a lot of them have the white cloth around it. But some people tie. Gentleman uses the finger and the animal uses his tongue. And I've been both a gentleman

and an animal before. If you're holding a glass and a bottle, how are you supposed to wipe it off with a finger? Um, I don't know. Set the bottle down, then run your finger up the side. It's your bottle of wine. You're going with drinking. It's fine. It's just it's very suggestive when you do it. What do you mean by that? It looks like you're your O'Keefe podcast. I've ever heard you say, Georgio O'Keefe, I'm suckling on a panini? Is that what you mean by

asking a suckling is also suck? When was the last time you suckle pani? Oh dude, I'll suckle a panini so hard your face. I'll do it, and I'll do it right in front of your face. That's next week. This is a great episode so far. Um. Yeah, I don't know. Like some people tie napkins like in a bow thing around it just to catch the drip. That seems like a lot. Did I would

say? When I go to a fancy restaurant, which is not very often, and somebody orders wine for the table, which is not very often, the guy always has a like a napkin around his arm, and after he pours, he places the bottle tip on his arm to catch the drib to catch the dribble. And I know that that's something fancy people do, but it's not like I always keep a napkin on my arm. Am I supposed to have a forearm? Napkin when I'm podcast with you, guys, only

if you're serving a table of eight. Okay, so people just wrapped the cloth around the bottle. Okay, yeah, I have a special wine hanky. I don't either. Handkerchiefs have always grossed me out. Why whoever thought that was a good rational thing back then? But you're just wrap up and putting it in your pocket. Yeah, it just wasn't a thing back then. You got one piece of cloth and you sneezed in it or whatever, You shoved it in your pocket, and then you washed it with your you

know, slacks. I get the utility. It's just so gross knowing that a dude has his boogers in his pocket. Well, now I don't think I say a dude. I don't think I've seen a woman use a handkerchief. I've never seen a person music weren't allowed to do that or vote back in the day. Well, we've come a long way now you can use and vote. We can do it. Never can we can use a handkerchief we're walking in put snot in my pockets. Every time I vote. I just want to do it because I can. You have to have a baby

if you're in Texas. But you can use a handkerchief, so it all eventriarchy, you know what I mean. Let's get political thoughts on the world and country. I mean, I it seems like there's problems, Dan are married? Statement? Am I wrong? Am I wrong? You should run for president? And that's your slogan is it seems like there are problems. It seems like I don't make any promises or know what they are. I just it seems like they are. The vague sense that the world's not perfect

is your entire platform. There are people on both sides. Next question, Um, but Dan, you seemed like you were going to go off handkerchiefs. Oh yeah. So like if it was just a sneeze situation, that's fine because the sneeze, I think is like the essence of snot. It's not like full on just matter, Like you're not sneezing matter out of your nose something, you know. But but like boogers, like some people, you just get a big old honking thing there. You're not like if you

put it on a thing, then put it in your pocket. That's the guy. It's drying, and I'm sure it's like flight into your pocket. Then you got a pocket full of boogers, Like you're just sneezing in it cool, that's fine, it's just getting a little bit wet and then it's gonna be fine. It doesn't even turn green. But once I think snot and straight up boogers or a bit holier than thou, isn't it like your body? No? Okay, just because someone's eating booger their own boogers doesn't

make it fine, Like, don't eat any boogers? What does that come from? What is your pocket? Yeah? But like right, if I just picked my nose on camera here and just put a booger in my pocket, that'd be weird, right, to be horrendous? Yes? Right? And why is it just because there's a middleman involved? Like there's that. I guess it's the etiquette. Yeah, I mean most etiquette is just a

role we agree upon. The middleman is the most important feature here. If you didn't have the middleman, also, Kleenex would be gross if you were like blowing your nose and had a bunch of snot in your hand and then through your snot in the trash and we're like what, I threw it away? Like it's not the pocket that's the issue. It's the fact that you guys don't like the fact that you're keeping it instead of having it be disposable. You're right, and again I don't disagree with the utility of it.

Well, I don't disagree with the utility of it. I just don't like it the idea what you just said, blowing your nose into your hands, And that was the grossest thing I can imagine right now. It's just no barrier, just blowing your nose, like like when you have a cold straight into your hands. So I do have a bone to pick with that. There are a lot of people in this world that blow their nose in the shower, and when you do that, you're blowing your nose into your hand

and you're in the shower so you can just rinse it. And I think that's gross. I feel like I need to bring something up in the shower. I'll be in the shower. I'll I'm not getting peel over me. I poop in the shower too. Well, speaking of that, No, on that note, that note, I need to bring something up. Okay, some Giant Bomb listeners might know where I'm going with this. We were on the voicemail dump truck a week or two ago, and one Mike Manati

aka Mitch Tolkoda. His name is way too close to mine. Oh yeah, he's basically undiscernible. You're the same person. But anyway, one of his friends does a thing in the shower that he Okay, I'll tell you the act first, and then the gross there. It's gross and weird, all right. So the friend the toilet is next to his shower, and his friend will shit into his hand, open up the shower door, and he says poop city slam a jama and slam dunks his poop into the toilet.

That's I don't don't believe him. I didn't believe it either, but then he was like, no, no, he's got a video proof and it's irrefutable. I would I would actively not be friends with him. I wouldn't be disgusted, Yeah, ido disgusting. Poop city slam a jama is a funny series of words, but the actual act of shitting into your hand. You can say all sorts of funny things while you're a disgusting human being. I still don't both being toilet content around your bathroom when you slam Dunca

turred into a that's disgusting. I've never I don't think I there. I don't think my own poop has ever been on my hands. I know the Bible says judge not lest you be judged, but that I don't like that guy. I could learn, so he could be have, like he could win a Nobel Peace Prize. I would still not like him. We'd bring it up. We'd bring it up in his speech. Yeah, acceptance. When I was in college, I was friends with a bunch of like fraternity

bros. And we would they were always like one gross one. I'm always gross, always multiple the gross one in this house, I have a vivid like. There was rumors floating about how weird he was. And one of the things that he did was when they ran out of toilet paper, he would shower and then he would go like take a shit, and instead of wiping because there was no toilet paper, he just went right into the shower. That's like his system shower. No, he would go and as a

normal person in the toilet shower because he couldn't wipe. And I was like, that's disgusting, Like, just get toilet paper like a grown adult. And deal with it. And it was like this thing where he was like, I'm clean? Am I not? And ned is like ten percent of what poop slam a Jama. Who cares? What a freak? Yeah, I don't like it. I don't person. There's so many other options. He could get out of the shower, poop in the toilet it and then

and then finish the shower. The concept of pooping in your own hand is something very well reserved for monkeys that are in some kind of war. And that's like the best ammo they have. For the record, I am not defending the poop city slam a Jama gentleman. I am the messenger here. No no, no, no no. Check the tape. It's disgusting, it's disgusting and weird. For the record, I'm just the messenger of the poop city Slam of Jama. I heard this and I was shocked. What

are pete? What is going on in people's homes? I think a lot. This seems like there are problems children. These two slam a Jamma. My dad. So, my dad has the whole gimmick where he steals toilet paper from hotel rooms instead of paying for it and he's done this forever, and so that's fine, that's better than poop city slam a jam of course, of course this is just aren't pomparable, right, No, we're not

on this good. My dad's doing cat burglar shit to try to say he's bringing in fake like fucking like so can do the Indiana Jones swap with the toilet paper roll He brings in the used ones, steals the full ones um to save some money. And so he does this all the time and bragged about it a lot. So Bonk Bianca got him for Christmas like three or four years ago, just bought him a big fucking thing of like forty two toilet paper rolls. That's fine. Was it really good? Ply because you

know he doesn't pay for good ply? Well, it might have been. I'm not sure. But the thing is, every time my dad sees or talks to Bianca, the first thing he always says is like, you know what I still have? I still haven't gone through it all. I still have some of that toilet paper. And like her response is always like cool, Like I think his thing is responses statistically, you should have gone through

in it by now. This is weird. I think he's bragging and saying like, oh, I use so little and I'm saving money, I'm not using very much of it, and I'm still stealing the hotel stuff. But it's not really a brag. I don't think he knows that. Well, this is I'm putting the dots together. Isn't he the same person that like thinks skid marks are affective life? Yeah, that's this explains it. He is he poops slam a jamma. I know he wouldn't poop city slam a

jama. My dad's real weird, but he wouldn't poopity quick correcting me, Yeah, it's this the trademark. Yeah, I don't need to get it right, Dan, Look, will we strive for accuracy and all things on this podcast? Um no, my dad, he's not gross in that way. I would say that's good. Yeah, yeah, I'd prefer it that he's not. We have a bar here that we keep amongst peers, friends and family, and I think purposely shitting in your own hand is just a

line I'm not willing to cross. Don't tell me if you do it. I don't want to know because it's going to impact our relationship. Yeah, but then the slam dunk is like the most unhygienic thing I ever heard in my life. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I'm not. I've I've done ill around toilet. So if he's washing his hands in the shower, I bet he's like, I bet he's like putting shampoo in there and is like that's fine. It's the same thing his hair with poo hands.

I'm just telling you, I feel like I know that guy. That's a guy who like definitely is like it's clean enough, that's like that when poop's involved, Like I like, I have a very good record of not touching poop. Like fine, anyone's I've never had to change a diaper in my life. I don't like, I think I can go. I could live to be eighty something and just never touch poop. First, you already touched

poop when as a child. I'm sure. I'm sure at some point when I was fucking one or something, I like touch my own diaper or something like five. You're probably sticking your hands and some shit. No, I'm weird, but I'm not gross in that way. Children are stupid about being weird. They stick their hands and stuff. They got jam hands all the time, I would say, no, way past the age of five. Have I interacted? Have I touched poop? Five is unlikely? Five is

five is like kindergarten. You should have stopped by. That's I'm saying. I'm just I'm Mary said five. So I'm saying that I don't think past two. Frankly generous. Yeah, quick, dog poo poo. Absolutely brushed dog shit. There's no question I've picked it up with a bag. With a bag, I pick up. Yeah, don't do poop city slam a jamma with your dog shit every day, slam a jamo my dog shit. No, I pick it up in a bag. It's just a thing. Though, when you have a dog, at some point you're going to be

like, what is that? And then sometimes there's an accidental poops scenario. I've done well. So yeah, I don't even want to talk about this. Really, this is this is all related. I have a strong stomach most of the time. I've actually been sort of sick lately from like every single year I get the bad seasonal allergies to the point where it actually gives me like a hay fever, and my stomach sort of recovering and between the

boogers and the poop and the I'm actually feeling nauseous. We've discussed this before, but if you talk about boogers too much, I will gag because it's like the one thing that can cause my tum tum to recoil. But I will say, for the record, if you roll back the tape, the first person to say poop on this podcast was you, Mike, because we were talking about peeing in the shower and say, yeah, no, it's just here we are. Let's turn the around, Mary, Mary, go

the total throw something out that's the total opposite of this. My stum, make my tummy feel good, Bring it around, make my tummy feel good? Please. Um. I made my own keylime frosting. Oh that sounds delightful, key lime pie delicious, hygienic, that sounds perfect. I washed my hands before I made it. What'd you make it with? Um? So shit made it with my own pip. How did we get here?

Family visiting because of a wedding. My cousin got married this weekend, and I thought it would be nice if I baked some home goods for my fam so they could think that I am really good at my life. And so I baked orange. I'm just gonna say it's a cake, but like, don't imagine a nice cake. Imagine like little buns, but they're made of cake material that have like orange in them. And then I made a keylime frosting with cream cheese, and I was actually pretty proud of it, because

I'm not a good baker or a cook. I don't really do that kind of stuff very much, and so every time I do it, it's a huge gamble that I'm going to waste my time and a huge brick of cream cheese, not only wasting cream cheese. So I was happy that it came out good, and nobody at least admitted to me or said that they didn't think it was very delicious. Everyone said it was great. Baking's hard.

Baking's harder than cooking, super hard. It's like science stuff. You know, Yeah, you can fix it or you can wing it, but baking. Baking is a science. Is baking cooking. You are technically like cooking it, but it's specifically putting. Forgot. I looked this up recently. Actually with chemical I always assumed cooking was the catch all for making food and heating it up, and it is but Zelda, Yeah, it is, but there's like a when it comes to baking, it's obviously an oven is

involved. But I looked this up recently. Yeah, is it like an actual chemical change. You're changing the structure of something, and that's what baking is, which is different. But what about if I make a hot pocket in the oven? Am I not baking it? No? I guess you're like you're heat baking it. You're you're baking it or you're roasting it more. I don't know. I would say that's a reheat sir. No, No, No, frozen I I always thought I know, But it's already

been constructed, already heated. No, because you know it's frozen. It's never been heated. It's not raw. Why would they heat it before they send it out if they're going to freeze it. Everything in there is cooked, yeah, and then cooked first and then frozen. You're not because they can't take the risk that some ding dong isn't going to take it out of the package and eat it raw and get sick. But they sell chickens raw, yeah, but not hot pockets. Why do you think that is?

People don't know, probably don't cook chicken or know how to cook. I was about to be offended than I also don't know how to cook it, but I like hot. Because he got out of a seat. Your face went from it infuriated to like, oh you're you're actually not far off. Oh she's right. I'm afraid to cook chicken, but I've cooked them jillion hot pockets in my life. You can put to roast it. Wait a minute, No on the package refrosed food. Have ever heard that? But

Totino's party pizza a hot pocket? Anything? It says options microwave, you can do this. Bake bake at four, so it is baking. The verb to bake like specifically means to heat up in an oven, I believe. But like bait. When we say baking, you know it's more like actual using yeast or flour, and baking is you have to wear the hat.

The idea is that like you're putting together substances mostly like you know, like liquid stuff butter, eggs and things like that, but once you've put it in the oven, the structure of the entity actually changes and becomes a different substance. It requires an oven. Cooking does not. But you can also use an oven to roast something. So being refers to heating raw ingredients to change their chemical compound. But how you heat them is what makes it

baking. For something to be considered baked, it must be heated using consistent dry heat. Yeah, is baking, So I have you're baking in the oven like the verb baking. But to make it initially, they didn't just bake it, like I never thought about the like making it before you make it thing. I just figured it just like yeah, like hot dogs are already mainly like ready to go. Yeah, yeah, because in case you eat it out of the package, you're chickens, not because it's like it's

chicken is like clearly raw. Like no one would eat that. If I took a ham and cheddar hot pocket straight out of the freezer, out of the wrapper and just ate it frozen, I'd be fine. I wouldn't get salmonella already, you would not get salmonella. I don't think it would taste very good. And I bet you that they would appreciate that you did not do that, but you would not get sick because they've already cooked it.

You might get sick from some other part of the packaging process, but it wouldn't be like I don't think it'd be food there, I agree with Mike. So here's the interesting thing during the packaging process, because you're eating like a processed food. Yes, it's cooked, but you know, like when you cook food, it gets rid of all the bacteria. If you eat something frozen, it's really possible that something in the packaging or traveling part got

bacteria in the food, and so you could be ingesting bacteria. But it wouldn't be the same as having raw chicken. It would be you'd be getting sick from something else. Something also can kill similar germs, like it's extreme temperatures that salmonella can't survive. I don't know if freezing would prevent it though, So did humans evolve to cook things because of flavor or because of avoiding disease? Probably the latter, So if it wasn't for the disease factor,

we're just beating everything cold. I think like when when humans first invented fire and cook some chicken, they were like, this is going to keep us from getting sick, But then they were like, shit, this tastes delicious. And I think it's probably immediately both because like once you eat roast chicken. You don't go back. You don't go back to raw. Once you've had that, it's a lot better hot. Like But before fire, though, do you think they people were just kind of grinning and burying it and

like eating cold chickens like not cooked and getting sick a lot. I don't I don't know. I guess most of that time the meat would have been red meat. So yeah, so what did you kill the cow? Domesticated chickens back then? These are good questions, right because like we're talking way

back in the day was who knows what was domesticated back then? These are like wooly mammoth times where the so question about red meat versus like chicken, so chicken, I know, salmonella, that's risky and all that stuff. But if I was walking down the street and I saw a freshly dead cow just like it just fell over, like right before I arrived, and I

just ate it, would I be fine the whole cow? No? I mean, like the meaty parts, like not brains, no, Like it's yeah, I mean you'd probably It's more there's a high chance you're gonna get sick because you don't know like what the cow already had how did they know when they make hamburgers and stuff that the cow didn't have something? Well, that's why you cook it. You kill you kill bacteria. So if a cow had like a virus or cold or something, when you cook, cooking

is just like ensuring that you kill all bacteria. Like if you had to eat raw meat in the wild because you couldn't make fire, you would do it, and the chances of you getting sick are higher if you didn't cook it. I just had a really stupid thought. So okay, so if cooking cow gets rid of all the illnesses and everything. Hypothetically, let's say I had a really bad illness I had. I want to cook you. Yeah, like, okay, there's a human sized oven and I, uh,

we somehow make it so I don't die. No, we make it to I don't die, and I can I go into an oven and it'll just cook my cold away. But you you would die? No, I don't know. In this hypothetical experiment, I'm I'm like impermose because like you're cold, you're cold. Most symptoms of being sick is your body trying to expel of the germs. So so you can cook it away. Think your body would then sense the extreme heat and get sicker. Yeah, but what

if I was impervious to like heat. If you're impervious to heat, then you're probably not getting a common cold either. No, no, no, I'm super prone to illness. What is this person you're imagining? My ideal self is impervious, catches colds frequently. What this is like some like perverted dream? I've always said this so bad, This fucking Jack Kirby over here making the next superhero ever sometime a little kid, what do you want to

be when you grow up? To heat but very prone to disease? A comment headed towards the earth, And the only way to stop it is for me to cook myself, like on a grill, like on a skillet, sizzle like bacon on It would be a good skill to have, to think the things you can do. If you're impervious to eat, you'd be sickly and in bed, so it wouldn't it matter. Okay, But what if

you didn't have that part and you were just impervious to heat? I would like people, Yes, that's cool, but the way that you just can't like added. But also I get a lot of gold for the hypothetical for the hypothetical. Um, I don't even think a train for you. I don't think a medical doctor could answer the question you asked. You'll have to bring them on to show. Let's get a doctor. I imagine a doctor on this show answering Dan's wild questions about body functions. I doctor, when

someone poop slam a jamas, both of you stop saying incorrectly. I will not. I refuse to learn the term PCSJ go on, so crue doctor, how much bacteria is on my hands? And does a really hot shower fix? I don't need soap? Right? Come on, sam jamay what I don't know? I was trying to say In Spanish slam of jamma translate to slam a jamma. If not the old slam a jammamma, you're just

saying it faster and weirder. Italian the slam of jama been slam a jama used to jam mule the old who the slammer jammer appropriation slammuel ld jammuel boy, Oh you skinny gata. Is that a slam of jamma? Or I don't know. I get those mixed up Australians like where's the cat New Zealanders. They're like the cat h a city slammer. You can't it sound like my friend who is a bogan self proclaimed bogan. Why would you self proclaim

you're a bogan. Bogan is like a redneck. But in Australia. Oh interesting, Okay, well he's from the suburbs, he says, but he does say it was like Bogan. Suburbs in Australia is like the rural area, like the outback is just like most of the west of the country, right, aren't all the cities like on the east and south stuff on the west coast? It's like center is is that? What would that be like the South in the US? Would that be the analog? It's not.

It's it doesn't play out the same geographically, I don't believe. But middle is genuinely like mostly desert and completely unusable by Man's not like little villages or anything like that. There's like maybe a couple ruse that are bouncing around in some lizards really good wine. Well no, not desertly, it's it's it's very difficult to inhabit most of Australia. Really. Yeah, it's got to

be a way they can fix that right. Uh no, and then the place all the way on the other side where no, also this other thing I was talking, how you deal with Dan? No, no, Dan suggesting terraforming with horrible lasers. No, I'm thinking the two thousand things with the domes, like you could do that. But yeah, isn't most of

Australia's population southeast specifically? Yeah, southeast? It's Sydney Melbourne? Yeah, yes, what's the what's the third big city I'm missing besides Sydney Melbourne on the East coast, Queens Brisbane, Queen's Reich, the Queens Queens Queensland isn't Queens the state or province or whatever they call it. Yeah, and the Gold Coast is like all down here and then you have nothing and then you

have Perth. Perth is on the west coast. Yeah okay, but it's not like our it's not like our New York and California wars, Like nobody wants to be from Perth. Oh ok sorry? What what would Perth be in America? Florida? But not? But like yeah, yeah, there you go. That's yeah. Is that where parents moved to die? I don't know. I think it's where you go to Yeah, like be forgotten. It's like it's like I'm leaving Facebook. You just disappear from society.

Who's I just talking to that. I had a revelation, I know, like the older you get, the less tolerant you are of cold weather. I didn't realize that a lot of elderly people fair better in the heat because heat is better for arthritis, like your joints whatnot. We you don't seize up as much, and it's it's not as bad for I don't. I don't think that's like the same case across every person. Is that like saunas and steam rooms and stuff. Maybe a good sauna or steam room is a

solid like huge fan dude in the morning. Yes, the sauna. My gym's still closed, like they just haven't reopened it. Since I'm about to get an airbnb that has a sauna and a hot tub, and I'm really excited. I've done that. It's fun. We do like both and then if it's cold, you can do the like sauna snow hot tub multiple Yeah, like where you like lay in the snow. That's super nice. Yeah, I was reading that book that's on the shelf. Id me Owls of

the Eastern Nice. I think I talked about it on fire Skate before, but they were saying the Russian way to do is, yeah, like stay in until you can barely stand it, and then you go out and you rub snow all over your body and like you just you go from extreme to extreme, which is good for your body apparent like circulation wise is really good

for you. That's a tradition at Ben Hanson's lakehouse. He's got a sauna in the lake house, and like he will like pour so much water on it, so it's just like everyone's dying in there, and we're just like sorry, how long can we say? And how long can we say? And then we just sprunt out and we go into the lake like yeah, three in the morning, and it's, oh my god, this is the best feeling in the world. It is good. I feel like it's good

for you. I have to a degree obviously, like don't push it too hard, but like cold plunging is supposed to be great for your body, like the idea of essentially you're warm, you want to be warm, but submerging your body all the way into like icy cold water for a minute and then getting out and getting warm is supposed to like really help jolt your system and like restart you know, your engines and stuff like that. We had people swear by like the cold shower thing every day. I do. Like

I started doing a cold shower every once in a while. We had a problem with our water heater and we live in a brownstone, so I had to go all the way to the garden level apartment to like it turned out the pilot light, which is fucked. I think like wind had blown it out when during renovations down there. But we didn't have cold water for like two days and we had to wait for the gas and electric company to come

check it out. So I was like forced to do cold showers. And it always sucks when you first get in it because like you can't breathe. It's it feels like you can't breathe. But then the more you get used to it, like it's way better than caffeine, like waking up and being alert. But I would I don't do it every day. I'm not a so like sociopath, but it is kind of nice every once in a while. I really I like the cold coffee technique where you let's just where you

drink nice coffee too. I shour a nice coffee and then I shipped my hand. Damn it, stop bringing it back. Uh. My aunt and uncle were visiting me and I every morning. They want a nice cup of coffee. That's what they wanted to wake up with. I understand that I'm a good host. They always got a nice, hot cup of coffee.

But it was like ninety degrees this last weekend, and so I gave them their their coffee and I made myself an iced coffee, and they, I want to say, like they were giving me any shit about it, but they were basically like, you drinking iced coffee like all the time. And I was like, all the time, if it's hot, I want an iced coffee, And they were like, I would never have an nice coffee.

I always have a hot coffee, even on the hottest days. And I think it's a generational thing because like, I don't really know a lot of parents that have iced coffees or even like consider it. But I couldn't imagine a hot day without a delicious iced coffee in my hand instead of a hot coffee. And it's just like second nature to me. I feel like growing up, you didn't really see a lot of ice likeing media and stuff or Starbucks probably changed the game, don't you thing? I think, yeah,

And I feel like Starbucks didn't. We first start hearing about it really and like the late nineties it became donuts as well, like I thought, yeah, yeah, they what were those called, Mike, do you remember? They had like iced coffee drinks that were not called iced coffee and orange maca frappuccino something orange macca frapp macina. I do both because I'll always make too much in the pot that we have, and then I'll put it into

a thermis, put that in the fridge for the next day. It's not cold brew, obviously, but it's ice coffee, so the next day I'll take it out, pour it and then I'm not wasting any I am you. I do the same thing every day. I have I brew coffee like a regular person, and then whatever's left over, it goes into the fridge, and then I have iced coffee for when I need it. I realize I used to have iced coffee every day when I worked at the CBS office in New York. Oh yeah, yeah, And I would be bummed when

it switched over to like only hot. And I realized, like, we have a coffee machine here, and I make coffee almost every day now, but it's always hot. If I wanted to make if we have a coffee machine, do I have the means to make it iced? Not like immediately again, I what I do. I pour it into a thermis, put

in the fridge, and then later that day or the next day. That's important, that in the cup and then because if you put it on ice and it's hot, you're gonna water down the ship out of your coffee and then it's just going to be liquid. So the secret is is to make coffee like regular coffee and slowly cool it in your fridge, or make hyper concentrated coffee, which you could also do right double the amount of grounds you put in it so it's like slidge, and then immediately put ice in it

to cool it down if you want it right away. So it's I think Bonx just said she accidentally got like too big of a thing for the ice cot or for her normal coffee, and she just put it in like a cup in the fridge, And I can just fill that with ice and just pour it on top of that and that's basically just straight up an ice coffee right at that point. Yeah, which is different than cold brew cobrew is obviously like actually made over like with cold freezing cold water over time, which

is really cool. Yeah, I like just sold reusing the hot coffee method. It's totally functional for me, and I feel like I'm not wasting it. How many times have you like poured out half a pot of coffee? I know, Dan, I don't think you make pots. I think you have one of them pods, whatever they're called. I've never drink coffee out of a pot, and I don't really know how they work. I've seen them, but it's always intimidate. You have a pot in your house,

you have the pod. No, he's saying, you're saying two different things. She's saying pod. He's saying, dance saying pot. We use the pods. I've never made a pot of coffee or I don't think I've ever drank coffee out of a pot. I don't know how. I know beans are involved, that's all I know. Like I done to my head, I would have no idea how to work a pot of coffee. You haven't made it. That's fine, I've made you a pot of coffee here.

Oh, I believe it. I believe it. I just I've never seen I've never consciously grabbed a pot and been like, oh, I'm pouring my coffee. It's it's it's like a drip coffee. But experience would I would try. Look, all I know is that like ninety pieces involved you need like the weird filtery things. No, there are beans that you get out of a vending machine at the grocery store. Is it just beans? I don't really understand the filter situation. And I don't know what else is involved.

Water is involved, yes, And I don't drinking the beans or if they get ground up into your pot, or if the beans get You're not ingesting the beans, right, You're ingesting the caffeine and the runoff from the beans. Which is you you if you can get the whole beans, or you can get the like actually pre ground beans. If you get the whole beans, do you have to grind them? Yeah? It tastes better, it tastes I wonder what happens if you just pour water over whole beans.

You would not get like, you barely get any flavor. It would just be different hot water with and when you grind them up, it's running through like coffee mud, so then it strains through the filter. By the time it's dripping, it's like, oh, so you're just drinking water, and that's like been hanging out in your beans. That's hot water that's been dripped through like a pile of coffee grounds in the filter. The filter stops the grit from getting into the drink, and the nep of that flavor stays in

the water, even if you're going, yeah, it's marinated baby. I also love the catchphrase, so it's just water that's been hanging out with some means. If I took jelly bellies and I poured a bunch of water over the jellybellies and had a cup underneath it, it wouldn't be like delicious candy

water. You're wrong, it would It would be pretty delicious. So if you ever had have you ever had skittle brew where you put skittles and vodka together, Oh, somebody had a party once in college that had this type of stuff and it was delicious and awesome. Yeah, it's not too dissimilar. Think about it, and I think we could do it in a coffee machine. You could would suck the coffee. Now, skittles would fuck a coffee machine. Why I see? I think trying to grind skittles would fuck

a grind her up. I think, oh, does a coffee machine? Does a coffee machine itself grind the stuff? Some don't. Usually This is what I think you should do with a coffee pot. You take like a knife and you just, you know, you coarsely chop your skits, and then you put them in the coffee maker in the basket. It filter and

if you run water through that, you should get delicious skittle water. I feel like if that was the case, this would be the biggest thing in the world, and you'd hear about it all the time, like more than coffee. Why more people talking about skittle hot skittles. It must be gross, It must you have because it must be gross. Otherwise everybody would love this ship. You would have to divide the colors up. Otherwise you get

this weird rainbow like brownish class. I could get grape skittles and just make grape skittles coffee, Yes, you absolutely go. It wouldn't be coffee. It wouldn't be coffee, It would just be water. It's just hot or cold. It's hot at first down now cold like cold would not I don't think would trap as much as the flavor. Oh hot sucks it in. The flavor more. I don't know if it sucks it in, but it runs through coffee grounds. It melts it right, because you're melting the sugar

into the water, so it ross. It's like further cooking it a bit more with the skittle brow with the liquor. Right, you're putting skittles, and I would buy six six bottles of liquor of vodka, and then you divide the skittles into all their colors, and you put the skittles into the vodka bottles and you shake them once a day and you keep them under your bed. I'm not kidding. I did this, no, I know. But that's soaking. That's not like the coffee process and the alcohol because it's

vodka. Like into away at the color and the sugar and the flavor. And now towards the end, you still have the remnants of the core of the skittle, like you still have that gooey center. What it tastes like. It tastes like skittles delicious And wait, Wait, the core of the skittle still tastes the core, So I did eat one. Uh it's really lost a lot of it's like goodness. I wouldn't recommend eating the core, so it just transfers the flavor into VA kind of sucks the flavor in skittles

from the coloring, not the center. I don't know the rules of that. I know with flour Skittles, all the flavor is on the shell because that's where all the shower crystals are. It's definitely the shell because orange skins they use the same flavoring as orange tic TACs, and those are both very different materials outside. But it's definitely the show. Damn, that's not such a cool fact that, you know. Can we do? I want people to try an emails so sarcastic, wow, damn dude that I want people

to tweet. I want people to try skittles coffee, and I want them to send pictures to the fire, skip Twitter, an email and let us know how this goes. Sky Crow is delicious. I've made when I was like twenty one, as his tradition, But if you don't want to get drunk, if you just want like a nice treat, in the morning, Like I would love to like just have a nice ti just that's weird to

do in the morning. I want to make like a classy drink. I love these, is not I love the idea though, going back to it that like when he's making skittles in a coffee maker that he's like, I made skittles coffee, and it's like that's just water. It's just wait, isn't that? Couldn't you say about coffee not unless you put coffee beans in it, But you're putting skittles in it? Why are skittles different than beans? Well? Are you asking how candy skittles are different from coffee beans?

You know what I'm saying? Why is it different? Like if coffee is not, if copy is more than water, why is Why was it just water skittles and not a whole different thing? You know? I mean think I'm not disagreeing that you could do what you're doing. I just don't think it's going to turn out the way you're expecting. Maybe it will and you'll have a new morning ritual on your hands, but I just don't think it will. I think it'll taste it Like, I mean, like, what

is the what is the analog I'm thinking of? Um, really out there, it's like milk with like leftover milk after cereal. I feel like it's going to be that sort of flavor, like just the fat, weird hint of it. Yeah, I don't like leftover milk. I mean, obviously if it's fresh after like, it's not good like the day later. But like I for dessert sometimes if I'm lazy and I don't have anything in the

house, I'll make myself off a bowl of sugary cereal. Yeah, and drinking the milk afterwards is delicious because it's all sweet, sweet, sweet milk. It's like drinking the liquid that pools up by the gutter and it's just like it's like, oh, that's old and discarded, Like that's not meant for consumption. You know, it's gravy, baby, It's the essence of pure flavor. It's been marinating and all the good stuff. I thought, we don't have the whole thing. I just want to say, I just

realized I don't know where gravy comes from. We don't have to go into a whole thing about it. Are you saying it's I just I'm just making a mental note to myself to look up we're gravy, to write it down for next week. I don't fully know how to make gravy. All right, here we go. So when you're making gravy, making gravy, um, no, I know? Is there flour involved some gravy? Yeah, the secret is rue. And you probably want to have cooked meat in a

pan. So yeah, because you use the turkey. You get there for turkey gravy. When you're cooking a meat, typically you're cooking it on a hot skillet and it's making that like yummy crispy edge on them, on like steak that you like, right, it's got that char When you take the steak off, there's inevitably like meat edge juice that's still on that pan. You know what. It's like baking grease, like bacon grease and stuff. Right, it is like greasy. It's mostly like the bits I'm gonna call

it bits. Is it made of turkey? It's made it of whatever meat that you cooked in the pan. There's lots of different types of gravy. There's there's turkey gravy, there's um. You know, you can make gravy out of steak. You can make it out of any meat whatever. Thanksgiving like gravy over like that could be somebody who's making turkey, and usually turkey gravy, and so it's turkey drippings, right, and then you make a root and a root dripping, like subscribe turkey with me, the delicious oils

and drippings that fall fought turkey. When that's why gravy is just fattening. Oh, and then you make a rut which is typically flour and a liquid which generally in our case would be milk, a thick milk and butter, and you kind of like stir it all together and it becomes this vis viscous liquid and you put that in the drippings and you stir it all together, and then you add maybe some seasonings. It's usually like salt, pepper, maybe time, whatever, you know, seasons you want, and that's gravy

base. Maybe that sounds extremely unhealthy, but also even just the waves described sounds even more delicious. It's like both of those things. No one's healthy on Thanksgiving. No gravy is like just no. Anytime you're having biscuits and gravy, those biscuits are made out of butter and flour and that gravy is made out of butter and flour and like meat, and that's it. That's what you're ingesting. It's delicious. It's yeah, oh god, hell yeah,

I want biscuits and gravy. There's a really good biscuits and gravy place here. Maybe I'll take you guys when you visit me Um And they do like real fun biscuits and gravy. So it's like they have biscuits and gravy. But then they have ones that have like maybe like uh, they'll they'll put twists on it, or maybe they'll be apple butter on it, and maybe one of them it's a sandwich and it's got like some mustard and honey on it. They changed the change the system based on like what you're but

they have tradish, biscuits and gravy for anyone who would want it. So good. I know, we we gotta be careful talking about food because you know you'll get excited. Tell me feel good, you did it. I didn't ask that. It started by feeling Yeah. Every year it's a long walk to making your stomach feel My tummy feels better. Thank you. After the slamjam will be slam city, get it right, Jesus will be slam mill, gim mill. I'm so good at France. You guys want to

talk about video games. Sure, I haven't really been playing anything lately. Yeah, I mean playing games right now. When we had talked specifically last episode about the preview event, I think at that point I would have been like trying remember when we were recorded, probably like thirty five forty hours into years the case said you said forty. I think okay, I don't remeber you said that on air. If you just told me, I think it

was like forty. Yeah. Now I'm one hundred sure for review. I filed my draft after having played like seventy five, but then by the time the review published three days later, I had gotten to a closer to one hundred. Can I make up public admission here that I haven't really talked about publicly before. With you telling me how many hours you can put into this game, and with me seeing the outlandish and wily things people are constructing online,

I feel intimidated and a little like anxious. When I pick up the game. It's overwhelming at first, for sure, the amount of freedom they give you. However, I will say the more you play real quick hand. I just want to tell people that they are listening. We aren't going to go into specific spoilers here because I'm letting you two lead it, and

I'll jump in. I'm not even ten hours in. Yeah, I'm like ten to twenty hours to that point, though, Mary, I will say that, like, there are long stretches of my hundred whatever hours where it felt just like Breath of the Wild, loop exploring and sure you're still using ultra hand fairly often, very vaguely speaking. I will actually say the parts of the game I really disliked are when they force you into making one specific thing to solve the puzzle. I think the game is at its best when

you can solve puzzle. Like, however, you want different ways, Yeah, but it is. I mean, we have people on staff, Cass Marshall had written a thing about how like it was too overwhelming for them to enjoy. They went back to the breath like, Breath of Wild still exists. It's still an awesome game. It's a simple world. And when I play video games, I really I am careful about how much challenge I want to give myself because I am there to escape and and you know, just

enjoy myself. And I think I found myself in the beginning moments of that game having a bit of anxiety about being asked to be an engineer, which is not something I personally want in my game. And I was almost afraid to say it because I was like, I feel like people are so Zelda crazy. I'll be this outlier, but it it it's not why I would pick up a Zelda game is to do that and to make machines and flying

mechanisms. I see what you're saying, and that like you'll see the clips of people like I made this thing with like pistons and yeah, where it's like, look, I am far from an engineer, I believe it or not. And I find that it get out of town. I know that maybe a shocker, but to me, it's just kind of like, you know, there's the guy with the signs. This is a guy that always needs to like stand up a sign and you run into him and it's like it's always next to some wood and stuff like that. Oh yeah, he

has to put up this like real estate sign or something like that. And it's to me, it's not like an engineering feed. I kind of look at it as like, all right, I got some planks, I got some wood here, what, I'm just gonna slap some shit together in a weird way. It's it's physics to me more than engineering. It's more just like you know, it may look. It always looks very ugly. I never have some stroke of genius where it's like, oh, yes, if

I put this at a perpendicular access. It's never that. It's just like, I'm gonna slap a bunch of bullshit together and see if it stands up. And I I think it's because of that, I never get too intimidated by it. And also the Mike, I think you mentioned that if it wants you to create one specific thing. Um, I've never really found that. Like there are the shrines where it's well, it's like, yeah, maybe it's it's parts that you told me you didn't want to talk about.

Oh oh okay, well then I haven't seen that. But I've done like thirty shrines now, and like, there are definitely the ones where it's like here's a bunch of rockets and here's here's some stuff to attach it to and you can tell it's tied to Like, okay, I'm gonna use rockets to solve this. But I have had numerous like a bunch of shrines and stuff where it's like, Okay, I can tell what it wants me to do.

But when I was going for the treasure chest, I wind up over here and I've got this in this I wonder if I could by by, And then I'm like, oh shit, that works, you know, so I feel like that freedom is still there again. I don't know specifically what you're talking about, Mike, that I haven't seen yet, but so far I have found it to mostly be just like I'll slaps some stuff together and see if it works, and if it doesn't, it's usually in a funny way. I like the freedom, and I do agree, I don't feel

like I'm required to. I guess what I'm saying is is, you know, when we're playing Sons the Forest and some people get really into constructing the houses, and some people get really interested in building mechanic You were really excited about finding something in a book and being like, I'm going to build this fish trap and I'm going to construct this elaborate thing. Do you remember what

I spent my time doing chasing squirrels around I was bashing squirrels. I genuinely think that when I get most excited about playing a game, it's to have a simple task and just try to execute it perfectly. That is where I find the most joy. And so when you put me in a sandbox like that, what happens is I revert back to my most basic instincts and I

try and bash rats. And so you put me in this game with all these this possibility of engineering, and I'm like, I'm going to find the biggest, toughest guy on the field and I'm going to beat his ass. And that's kind of what I've done with my time so far, as I've just become this maniacal killer because it's what I'm adjusted to and I feel comfortable doing it. I don't know if I'm playing the game the way you're supposed to. Well, so yeah, maybe it's fine. No. Yeah.

I literally wrote like a PSA thing that went up after the review. It's like, there's no correct way to play this game. Again, that's part of the beauty of it. Yeah, like you can play, but it's a different than me. That's a daunting preposition for a lot of people. I think Breath of the Wild, in hindsight, was extremely simple compared to this, and Zelda as a series has always very much been about like the

one solution to a problem teaching you, and it is. It's like a masterclass in game design where it's teaching you a mechanic and it's laid out a perfect situation for you to learn the mechanic very well. I do think that

this game does that. In my very early stages of the game, when it was trying to teach me very simple bouts of construction or fusion, I understood what it was trying to teach me, and I did like that when I came across my first puzzle where I was like, I actually don't know how to solve this, I think I solved it in a way that other people didn't and that made me feel really smart. So I've enjoyed that aspect

of it. I guess what I'm just saying is is I feel a little isolated when I look online and I see all these people making cool stuff, and that is not what brings me joy when I play games. Oh yeah, no, there's there's stuff people are making. I saw them. They

made a I think I understand the basics of how they made it. So to be clear, I as even as far as I am, I played a shrine today that showed me how to use a ZONEI item that I've had my inventory most of the game, just never knew how the fuck to use it. Like the shrines are the tutorials for zone items, often Zonie devices, and depending on what shrines you go to, you might not know how to use one of those for much of the game. Um, but as

I understand, I understand the basics of what they made. But basically, these people made an orbital laser to kill a gliac. But it's basically a you get a levitating platform the ones you hit. You might not even have seen these yet. I won't go into the gameplay specifics that I guess that would be spoilery, but it's like it's one of those things where it's I can forget it sky laser. I understand. Yeah, So it's like I vaguely understand how they made that, but I'm never gonna put the time into

making something like that. And if you want to, that's cool, but like it's that's like Minecraft. Some people just like what I was thinking, this israft but I think of it in the way that like if I see a Mario sixty four speed run, like you know, some crazy where they are doing shit, I didn't even know it was possible. It's like, I don't I don't get frustrated that, like, oh I can't play that

way. I think that's just kind of like the Outliers. It's like, wow, look at this crazy thing that someone built, or the way someone can play this game. It's not aspiration very different, but I mean, the game isn't intended for people to break it and speed run it. Like that's why that's so elaborate and so crazy. To watch someone like break the game and play it time and time and time again, to be able to like concoct that that is a totally different level. This game is encouraging people

to make weird constructions. It wants you to do something like totally different and unique. They're hoping that the audience is going to make something elaborate that they never even considered. But I wouldn't think that, Like, you know, if you see a bunch of clips on social media and stuff of people doing like elaborate stuff, I don't think that's a failure on anyone's part if like I doubt anyone any one of us three are building super crazy things, Like

most of the stuff I'm building is just dumb as hell. And yeah, I saw there was there was a one of the towers that I was trying to go up and activate, and it was surrounded by a bunch of spikes, and I was like, all right, I got to figure out a way to get over these spikes. That's why I spent like ten fifteen minutes just chopping down a bunch of trees, getting planks from far away, bringing them in and I just built the most fucked up like kind of like ramp

ladder thing. I put it up above the spikes, went off the top of like I did it, and I landed on the other side, and I realized there was just a giant ramp I could have walked up and like I could, it was just right. But the thing is, there was a ton of enemies and stuff there, and because I did my fucked up thing, I find them and they didn't see me, and I just like walked into the tower and activated, and I was like, oh fuck.

Even though like my dumbass way was completely unnecessary and not elegant in any way. I had that little experiment that was just that experience that was just mine. You know, when you were you you got benefit from it, which is also really nice. Yeah, I think like I'm just so low on

the on the totem pole of what's impressive to me right now. I had one of those giant metal hooks, and for whatever reason, I had a long stick and I was like, I'm gonna fuse to this hook and it gives you a pole of a little hook on the end of it, and I was like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. And I'm watching this like when I watched the videos, I was like, not ten minutes ago, I was blown away by a stick with a hook on the end of it. Yeah, I'm out of my league. So that's what

I'm curious. What is like the what is your favorite thing you fused so far to stick with the hook? I just I just like I just told you. I mean, there's a lot of things where it's just like I got a weapon and I was like, oh, I wonder if I fused this sword with a bow and arrow, and it's like, well, now I just got a bow stuck to my sword, Like, yeah, that's

nothing at all. It's neat that you were able to do it. I do think it's cool that they were like, sure, we'll let you do that dumb decision, living skeleton arm onto another living skeleton arm and have a super long skeletons fuck up. Been weird, Like, yeah, I love it, you know, I I there's definitely certain combinations that are more entertaining, like a highly inshrum and a stick. Have you done that yet?

Is that the bouncy stick? Yeah? Yeah, Oh my god. On the fourth hit when he spins and hits them, I don't know if I did a four combo or anything. Oh if you do a four combo on the four combo or if you charge up an attack, he does the critical thing. It sends the enemy catapulting into the distance and it makes up boiling. Oh my god. Yeah, I just gotta get to the he goes and then he does the spin like the bo cobbe just went limp and launched

into the distance. Yeah, that's really good there. I wouldn't I wouldn't feel bad about you know what you're describing, because it's like I don't know about Mike, but like At no point in my probably fifteen hours with the game have I built something and thought like I'm proud of that that was smart and good. Like No, it's like I'm just slapping stuff together and make to get from A to b, like to get to the end of the shrine, or to get over that bridge or something like that, like and

I think I find that really fun. I wouldn't compare what you're making to this like incredibly elaborate edge cases. You're single, you know who I was I compared. I think I said Link is like a combination of Rigorn, Imperative, Furiosa and mcgiver. But he really is mcgruber. I know one of those. He's mcgruber. Okay, Yes, I was. I was gonna write a thing probably got like this is the rous Celery and Zelda. There's a Stamboul, but you can't put it up your ass. You might

use Celary with your ass, fuse Celery with asshole. I interviewed Asian Numa and hit Tomorrow Fujibayashi recently, who made the game, and I was like, I wish it could have gotten a point where I was like, why can't I fuse Celery? Why why is there's why are there so few asshole fusions? Yes? What have gone? They were like get out of They loved when you asked questions, leave the men's room, or just take a break. Why are you? How did you get in here? Um?

There are so many little things that the things that impressed me about the game are the things that, like, I can't believe this was consistent. I'm never impressing myself with what I'm making. I am impressed by the stuff that they considered and made all these systems work together. There was a part where I was in the mountains, but I didn't have any like cold resistance gear

or anything. So I was had before I went in. I had to make all these meals and cold resistance stuff and spicy pepper meals and stuff, and I'm like, okay, I got one warm, Like I was really focusing on that. I go into a shrine and while I was in there, you know, I fought a few things. And then when I left the shrine, I noticed I wasn't I didn't have any of the cold resistance anymore. The meal had worn off, but I wasn't cold anymore, And

I was like, wait, why am I not? And I realized while I was in the shrine, I fused a ruby to my sword to make it so I could kind of like throw fire, and so the sword it has flames on and so that's the thing. I didn't even have it, like it was equipped on my back, but even if, yeah, the flame was there and they factored that in and it made the link warm enough. I was like, that's fucking crazy. That took me a while to realize that's what was happening. I thought like something had broken. I was

like, I should be I mean, I was in Garuda desert. I was like, I should be like overheated right now. He should be doing the swaying thing. But I'm not. My potion, my elixir has worn off. I'm not wearing the Grudo Vogue armor yet. I haven't gotten that. I was like, oh, I have an opal on the stick behind me that I was using for water ship or sorry, a sapphire's using for ice stuff. Yeah. Yeah, there was a there was a Boucablin like

early in the game. And I just feel like there are these little fucking magical things that happened all the time that like you might not ever see. Most people might not ever see. But the game is just so filled with possibilities for that, Like it was just a simple thing. It was a Boucablin and he had like a rock hammer. I attacked him with whatever I had. He drops the rock hammer and flew back. I pick up the

rock hammer. He stands up and he doesn't have a weapon to Boucablin, and I'm just like watching him, like, oh, I wonder what he's gonna do. Yeah, he starts digging in the ground and grabs a rock and he throws it at me, and for like while it's in mid air, I was like, I wonder if this is gonna And I hit the button I swaying it and it fucking knocked the rock into the Boucablin's face and did damage. Like oh, I didn't know you could do magic like at

that point. And I would have cast recall on the rock to send back at him. I always forget I have recalled. That's the one. So this far into the game, I will say recall is the true like the really overpowered ability in this game. Really you can so again, this gets into gameplay spoilers. I'm not gonna spoil it all. I will say, let's circle back next episode and see if you've done cool shit with recall, because I think just on a surface level, you're like, oh, it

just rewinds stuff. You could send explosive barrels back at moblins who threw it. But it's like no, no, no, no. Recall can help you cheat so many ways in this game, Like it makes many shrines like that recall became one of my life. It's ultra hand plus recall. The way you can combine them became kind of my Like, I don't know how

to do the shrine. I'm just gonna fucking cheat and use recall. I guess you can, right, Because as long as you can use hand to move something and then you can use recall to bring it back back, you can make it anywhere. Ultra handed up to allege, go back down to the ground, ultra handed back up, and then casse recall on it. Get on the platform. It's an elevator, but also the UM, the gliders, the wing gliders UM you get a zone item, you get several

zone items later that let you take off from any surface. However, early on in the Skylands in there totorializing it, it's on those rails it needs like a runway. Early on, people are using recall. Similarly, they're used their ultra handing it, sending it like ten feet out and then pulling it back and then and then it launches it. Then by the time you're on it, you're flying because the fans you've turned the fans on or you

have the steering stick. Um. It took me a while to train myself to use a send because like, there were so many times I would just be in a place or like a puzzle where it's like how am I going to get into this room? And I'm like looking all around it, like I can't figure out how a good end it, and there's like fucking hang on a second, Oh okay, I go under it and then up and

oh fucking in a cave. Yeah, And you're like so in interviewing the two devs, it turns out ascend was a ridge only a debug dev cheat because they were all sick of having to exit caves normally. So then they were using that to ascend through mountains and they're like, we should just give the players this ability, and then they did. How crazy is if they're like they have to design the like they haven't changed that much. That is

fucking incredible. But like imagine, like I like cheating and I was getting annoyed at the backtrack through caves, and then Fujibayashi, the director, was like, oh, I've been using this cheat when I've been playtesting it myself in my office. Let's hear use this. And then I knew was like, why don't we just let players do this? He's like, we'll have to change quite a lot. He's like, yeah, let's do it. But I think that's really cool that they essentially realized that they were doing something

and it was fun and that that trumped a lot of other things. Oh yeah, they pick fun. And that's the consistent thing with Nintendo games is they're they're not worried about breaking it. They're not worried about whether or not you were skirting the rules or whether it's done it intentionally. They asked them elves, was it fun? And then it kind of lead with that.

But then but then they also added They're like, well, what if you come up in the middle of a group of enemies or underwater, and that's like, well, give them the option to like peek out like Danny DeVito naked out of the leather couch and sunny and then down. It took me like sixty hours to realize I could reverse it mid swim. I didn't have to wait. Yeah, you could just press be at any point and he'll go. He'll be swimming and then he'll do the spin downward. There's not

many times you need that. It's just like there's a couple of times where I was trying to get into a chamber like above me, but not go all the way to the surface. There's a certain part where you're under like X whatever, y Z, and I was like, oh, he's swimming way too long. That's definitely like a disguised loading screen, because um, sometimes you go through a really thin surface and it won't go into like the

ethereal swimming realm, or other times it'll take a while. But there's a few times Whe'm like, okay, this should be a thin surface if I'm getting to where I want to be, and then he'll be swimming for a while, I'm like nope, I missed, and then go back down.

Um yeah, ascend took a long time to let you wrap my head around how crazy is it that this game lets you break it in fun ways and also have so many like physics and things like that involved, but it never feels like I think about a lot of other games that have a bunch of like physics stuff, there's always the point where a body raged, all's out, all fucking weird, or something gets stuck in the geometry or something just

breaks up. I haven't seen that. That Nintendo polish is just like they are letting you do so much and it always seems like it's just doing what it's supposed to do. Yeah, the worst thing I saw is frame drops, but like, sure, but that's a perform that's the hardware thing. That's well, so that's apparently it's such a simple piece of hardware, it's ridiculous. The simplest city of the of the Switch Now apparently also this game

they've been using this is the engine since Twilight Princess. They've been using this no Ship, which is you know, there was a guy who's like really into graphics that was like, I hate this. I can't even have shadows on the leaves. You guys are killing me. And they were like, I don't know, like we are doing all this other cool stuff, you know with water and you know gravity, and he was like, but I can't. I can't have any type of graphics in the rocks and they were

like, yeah, well you know these. Yeah, it's just like no graphic value. I mean I'll take that right off any day of the week though. Yeah. Yeah. But speaking of that, it's like the little things they do. It's funny that Resival four remake during the demo period and Resonal before you make fucking kicks ass. But there was that like heated fervor from people. They're like, it's so dumb that they painted the interactable breakable

objects yellow so you would know. Um. We talked about that and Resident Evil about how everything that is interactable has yellow paint, which like the tomb Raider method, you know, the Assassin's creed, the yellow paint. It's always like, we've helped you, dumb dumbs. So it's funny now to

see Tears of the Kingdom. They were talking on the Nintendo Dev blog about the specific tiny things they do to communicate that, and it's like if you come up to a pile of Hudson's wood, like those piles of wagon stuff, it's like, if we don't if we want players to know they can interact with this one. We just they just have those tarps over them, and it still makes sense. It's like pots. If you want to know whether you can break a pot, pots without the lid on it will break.

Pots with lids on them won't. And it's like I never noticed that, and then I started looking around for pots with lids and I was like, oh, weird. I never have even tried to break those. For some reason, they just don't look hollow, and they like they found little ways to communicate that stuff without like splashing pain across it, which is just this team. It's a bit more immersion, diegetic or whatever you want. Yeah, yeah, it allows you to feel the escapism a little bit more.

And I know it is an easy target to say, like so lame to just put like yellow paint on everything. We understand why they're doing it, because it's extremely frustrating to try and break everything in the room. Because you want stuff, We get it. There should be a way to do it just smoother that isn't yellow paint. And I actually genuinely think as like an evolution, we're getting out of the yellow paint era. We're getting to

a point where people don't want that anymore. You have to find more organic ways to tell me that I can hit something or I can climb there that isn't splashed paint. We're getting to that point. Yeah, And it's like, so, Mary, are you still? Are you off the sky islands yet I dived. Another one of the things that really affected my ego is

how often I was unable to land in water. And I have died a lot, And I was curious if that's normal because it's like flat, like what I was curious if you don't like found open the glider, he like rag dolls right when he hits the ground, he rag dolls. So have you ever done that with tomb Rader? If you ever see tomb Rader who dives off of cliffs, if you tive onto land, she's kind of like just kind of like immediately crunches and it's over. That's what he does,

and it's really upsetting. You get I mean, you get the paraglider if you follow the main quest a bit farther. Yeah, yeah, and I have it, But it's also really easy to like dive and miss no, no, no, you get the water. I'm constantly just trying to hit that water right right in the money and I'm just shy. Happened like ten

times he was falling head first onto rocks. Oh, I was so stressful, and I was trying to like get to an island there was a secret and I was trying to get to this secret island and I kept missing. Very frustrating. But I think a lot of that is just like user,

I'm learning and I'm getting frustrated with myself. I don't think it's like a game issue, just stressful to watch your main character crunch himself, Like yeah, I don't want to see it. There's a lot of peril in that game where it's like, oh, I need to cross this like lava field or whatever. It's like, all right, I got two wheels and this like this l block from Tetris or whatever. I guess I'll just see if

this works. And it's like rotating around, you're like fuck yeah, the um some of them, especially when you go on to the depths, things get slightly dangerous down there, but the Depths so fucking they took That's like they took the dark world of Link to the Past and made it like an integral like not that to that extent, but it's like that kernel of an idea. It's like what if there was this like dark world aspect to it? But then it's like if we if we just did this three layer open

world. It's not just one open world, it's like three and the way they kind of interacted to each other where it's like, Okay, there's this route here, and then oh, I've noticed a pattern of like directly above the root, there's something in the main and the name of the root is just the shrine name backwards. Oh I didn't realize that, I ask, But also like the way that is, and I talked about this like quite a bit in my review, but it's like they're like, not any developer

could have done that three layer open world. Good developers could probably find a way to make that happen. What sets this team even further apart is the way that they use the game's economy and systems to facilitate, like encourage you to go between the layers. So it's like to light up the underground because it's all pitch black, well maybe not pitch black in all areas until if you're not near a grass or you need bright bloom seeds. There are other

things. You can eat stuff that makes you glow I you find other items later in the game that makes early stuff defunct. But bright bloom seeds to light up the darkness only grow on the surface in caves mainly, so you got to go to the surface to get bright bloom seeds to go investigate the darkness. However, in the sky islands, you might find a treasure map

and then the X that marks a spot is in the depths. So it's like they're doing so many little things to cleverly get you to like make sure that those layers depend on one another and are not just like these three separate things they feel like one thing. It's like you fucking skydive off an island to high role, and then you skydive again, like just as far into the ground. It's awesome. It gives you a reason too, like none

of it feels superfluous or like something you should ignore. Like every time I've gotten a treasure map and it's marked a place in the depths, every time I've gotten something, I've been like, oh, okay, that's actually really useful, because like if I have one complaint so far about it. And this also tracked with the breadth of wild is that like I like getting every treasure test. You know, if I see a treasure chest, I want

to get it, And like that goes for every single shrine. I don't go to the accident until I have the bonus one, and so like I'll spend sometimes like an especially tricky physics one or something, ten minutes fifteen minutes just trying to get the physics right to knock this ball into this target or whatever. And then it's like, okay, great, treasure chest it's an elixir, and it's like, okay, well, great, I got a

thing that'll make me faster for two minutes. You know. It's like I know that the joy is in the actual doing, but it's like it is kind of a like fart at the end of it. Not the destination, it's no, but it's like, you know, you do get kind of trained playing every fucking Zelda. It's like the friends you met along low Agg. You know, I'm not the journey is very good, but I like

getting something at the end of but I want a sixth sword Mary. It's like, you know, yeah, it was like in oh Paul, I've only seen that word in Zelza say it again, open, Oh Paul, Oh Paul, what is it like a jewelry thing? It's a gem? Yeah, okay, up, it's like a like emerald ruby opal. Yeah, there's no emeralds in like that's your trawler. Just for the record, I don't say trawler. I don't run into in my day to day life. I don't have a reason to say it. I don't run into giraffes

in my day to day life. I don't call it. So I bought her a gorgeous ring covered in opals. Look, honey, what do you call them? Opals? Op opals? I found an opal. Okay, there you go. That's exactly how I said it, with that intonation everything. Yeah, it would be like I'm gonna eat this nice red juicy apal palace, a pal juice spider roast me up a new new having appal juice, and the little lady. We're having our range and then we've been up.

The thing about Tears of the Kingdom that I also really like with the Depths is that it does really feel like when you're going into some late game areas down there. They do a great job of like almost like it reminds me of how we talked about Resumel seven. When you know you need to go into the basement at that one part, it's almost like the revelation that

you need to go down there is scarier than going down there itself. In a similar way, the depths when there's some late game areas, like they really make it feel like you have to prepare to go down there, Like it's like I need this supply, I need that I need. It's like not even like necessarily knowing there's a lionel down there's something. It's like, it does feel like an excursion to go down there. It's not usually a

place you just like you wander into willy nilly. Yeah, And it's a gradual realization of just how in depth it is where it's like the first time you see the chasm, it's like, oh, I wonder what's in here. It's like a fuck, I'm falling for a while. Is is normal? The horns? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And you're looking at it like what the fuck is this? Like this like a cave And the first time you get the seed or the root and it just lights that up and

it's like another section in your map. It's like, hang on the ceiling map like ceiling. Yeah, it's like unsettling, there's that much space down there. I'm talking to Bank about it, and she mentioned that, like that is almost like a new idea of like since Elden Ring of like, wait, is there a map below the map? That's fucking crazy And this makes elden Rings like elden Rings map is like secluded areas compared to this is just like another high rule, but it's all a lot of stuff is mirrored.

So it's like again, it's like the dark world idea, but put into an open world organically. And then also there's a sky and also you can just like build what everywhere like it. This is a fucking craze, like the idea of like open world game. This is like we need a new term for this. Yeah, yeah, it's open world, but it's just like the sheer possibilities and the breadth of the open world is just unparalleled.

Yeah, and it's like that I'm not tired of playing it at all yet I've seen so little the maps still, or I've seen most I've seen most of the maps general. How many hours? Sorry, like a hundred and ten? I mean, can I ask you then a question, which is like, are you avoiding finishing the game? Which is what I did when we for review. I finished the story pretty sixty five seventy hours. It took me, I think sixty five seventy hours to finish the game.

Yeah, I'm being hyperbolic when I say I haven't seen most of the map. It's like I've seen, generally speaking, most of it. The depths I have not. I've only I've only lit up like a third of the depths. Probably there are some big areas you go to and find some really cool shit down there. But in terms of like, and this is just like a result of playing it for review, I wasn't indulging every single distraction at a certain point, and I'm like, I see that trying over there

like three DS away. I'll do it later. But like the Sky I haven't. I've spent so little time in the Sky Islands compared to what I thought I would be based on the marketing, because it's like, oh no, I've spent more time in the depths, but the Sky Islands you get

some cool stuff up there. But I gotta see you mentioning playing it for review and not like you know, going on every whim every distraction, like it makes me think about This is different than you know, Breadth of Wild, which I got early, and I was doing those sixteen hour days trying to make sure I did as much as possible before the review and Bargo versus this, which I got on release day, you know, And I think I am for all the complaining I do about being in Nintendo jail as Giant

Bomb is, actually think I'm liking playing it more this way because there's no pressure, there's no time limit. I am playing it when I have time, and I am indulging every distraction. Like every time I sit down to play, I'm just like, okay, um, looks like when I saved last time, I was facing this way, Let's go that way. Oh,

okay, looks like I'm going towards that yellow dot. Oh. But this is here, This is here, and I'm really just taking my time with it, and I feel like that's the more natural way to play. I think that's more indicative of how most people play these games, and I have found it more rewarding than just like this is my entire week. As I'm playing this all day every day, this feels better and I think it's going to stretch it out for like I could see myself playing this for months,

you know. Yeah, And there were definitely stretches where I was playing just like I normally would like kind of have to for a review just so you know what the gameplay flow feels like. But yeah, I definitely finished the story earlier than I probably would have if I wasn't reviewing it. But there's just a lot that I still want to do, like not just like, oh, I want to keep exploring and find stuff, dudes, Like, I have ten things I know I want to do, and I'm sure

I'll get distracted at some point many times. Yeah, man, I like that game a bit. I'm excited to dive into a little bit more. I've found that it's my evening Rustum's game because the switch is so convenient, it's really able to just be my nightstand. I can play it for a couple of hours, like right as I get ready for bed. It's like this nice thing I can enjoy, like a book, you know, as

you go to sleep at night. It's such a casual, relaxing experience, and there's always something that you can say, hey, I'll get to hear and then I'll call it for the night. There's a million of those. There's always like nice achievable things. It's like a book with short chapter so it makes you feel really smart when you read it well, and it's it's like I've been playing at Night a lot too, and like a lot of my favorite games, it just that thing where it's like, oh, I

started playing at ten, I've been playing for a while. What time is It's probably like eleven thirty and I look down and it's like one forty and I'm like, what the fuck? Like that to me is such an indicator that're like, Okay, I am lost in this world in the best way. Yeah. Like that so rarely happens, and it's I think it's a

very special thing when it does. Yeah, And it's it's funny like how many new layers start to unfold as you're playing it and getting farther in, whether it's like doing a big story be or just like again now, I'm just absolutely in love with Recall and I can't believe there's so many situations where I should have been using it that like I'm not that that is the stuff.

I don't usually mind spoilers, but like that's the stuff I don't even want to tell you about, because that's the stuff you stumbling like, oh my god. And they do so many little things in this game. It does such a good job of making it feel like they're not watching, like you're getting away with something, you're cheating. But then there's these little reminders

that they're like, now we're really good at this. Like you do a shrine that teaches you how to use recall to ride something back up to elevate yourself, and then as you emerge from the shrine you complete it, there's the stone archway in front of you that a chunk breaks off of and falls down. It's like, oh, now they're trying to teach you further. It's like, what you just learned the shrine. You can get up to Skyland's by casting recall on one of these rocks, or get up to that

like something breaks off and falls Consider that an elevate. You got to think in reverse, Like the way this game is kind of making you change how you think about space and physics is it's incredible. And also like just like one other thing before I forget, it's Breath of the Wild is very much if I was in the Hebrew region and I came across a big canyon where

I saw interesting stuff going on down there. Maybe it was campfires with bo cobblins or a couple NPCs I wanted to talk to, or I could see like a coroc thing from a distance, like whereas Breath of the Wild I would have been like, I really don't want to go down there yet. I don't have the stamina or the clothes to climb back up out. Now It's like, Oh, I see some outcrops. I'll use a send on those, so fuck yeah, let's get in there. Let's go dive down.

It's like we like, verticality is one of those things we talk about all the time in game design, and I think it gets like misused this game. They like really were like, how do we make verticality like an integral part of this Game's like, Oh, we'll do three open worlds on top of one another, and also we'll have abilities, like we'll have ways to plummet from one to the other and then also like get quickly from one to another. What if these towers just like catapult you into the sky so

you can float around. Well, It's crazy how they guide you without guiding you, Like I never feel like it's telling me like, hey, you need to do this, then do this, Like I have this fear sometimes that like, oh I'm going to not like Okay, for instance, these frogs that I've been killing drop these little snowflake things and I have no idea where the gems. Yeah, I've been playing for like fifteen twenty hours.

I have no idea what they do. And I always have this fear that like, oh crap, like what if that is an integral thing that's really gonna help my enjoyment of the game, or something I really need for stuff and I'm not finding it. But then I remember, like I've never actually like all the things you actually need, like the paraglider. It's not like Bret the Wild where you can't leave the Great Plateau without the paraglider. You

could miss the paraglider. But everyone I've talked to this playing this game, no one did. And it's like it is guiding you in certain places like Okay, go to this you know, look out or whatever and talk to this character, and it is just directing you without explicitly directing you all the time. You know what I mean, yeah, yeah, because you don't know that doing Paro's Quest is going to get you the paraglider and unlock the

method for doing sky view towers, right, But I haven't. I haven't met or talked to a single person that said like, oh, I've been playing ten hours, I don't have the paraglider, like everyone gets it, you know, and so like I every time, I'm worrying that like, oh god, I'm probably missing some huge thing. I just kind of put my faith in the developers and they're like, m I think I'm gonna find it one way or another. You know, Yeah, that's that's you'd think

it would be frustrating. But like, again, I don't know how many dozens of hours in I was like there was one And again, I'm not going to spoil how they work, because that's kind of those of the spoilers. I don't want to ruin for people. It's like there's one zone ie device, one zone e item. I'm like, how the what is this thing? I genuinely don't even understand what Like it feels as if a caveman has come across like a like a spoon and didn't know what it was for

it's like, what the fuck is to me? And you? It's extremely simple. I'm so curious which one you're talking about. But now it's like but then I was like, I don't understand how these work. Oh it's making a weird noise and it's doing something weird. They clearly want me to figure some I was like, I don't know. And then I found a shrine in like far east High Rule Field. Hypothetically, I don't I'm not

saying this where it is. It's somewhere. It's like, because I didn't travel east right away, I didn't come across the shrine that would have showed me what these are. Sure, I could have been making some stuff with them, but like I got here and I succeeded up till this point, so clearly again they weren't necessary. But now that I know how they work,

holy shit, I'm thinking about construction completely differently. And yeah, to Mary's points, like, I'm not gonna make anything like breathtaking, but like it will help me do some at least. I'm like doing the theory crafting

when I'm not play which I think is fun too. I'll be in the shower and be like, oh, I didn't even consider that, Like they're shit, like you get and the game does a good job of Like Mary, if this is any comfort, It's like, there are ways you can find blueprints schematics that kind of guide you toward ideas, but by and large, it's very much like, yeah, I'll have these like revelations where I'll be like, oh my god, run back to this room to try it,

and the brilliance this game could put the wheel up my ass. Yeah, I should have just been boning myself this whole time. Such a waste of a game, and so much of the time Nintendo's like, yeah, you can do that, and I was like, oh my god, I didn't even think of that. But yeah, there's certain items. I'm like, how is this going to help me? But then I was like, oh, I can make a fucking laser turret with if I combined these four things. That's not a spoil. It's like you can make most things.

But yeah, it's there's a lot and it's funny, dude. Talking to my coworkers who had code as well. At first all of us were like, I'm worried I just cheated that shrine and did not do what they wanted me to do, so that's the worry. It's like, my even this far in, when I do a shrine and I the shrines, you can

solve many ways. Many of the shrines you could solve a handful of ways, because the shrines are usually a tutorial for how to use a certain item this way, the only worry I have is that, fuck, I don't I feel like there's a crucial mechanic in this game that I didn't learn there, But again, the game is good enough to not make it necessary. It's just really cool to know my appreciation deepens for the game every time I

play it. I wouldn't say I'm like having as much fun one hundred ten hours in as I was at like twenty five, but my appreciation continues to be, like, I'm more impressed every time I play it. Do you think that this game has legs like a Minecraft in the sense I know you compared it to that earlier, which is just the ability to construct and make your own things becomes its own game right. The ability to make this what you want has endless opportunity. But does this game have that type of length

to it? Or do you think you're reaching the end of your time. No, I mean I I do think I need a bit of a break, But that's just like anything you play for one hundred ten hours I think I will. To be clear, I don't remember the last time I played a game for well, total war work like strategy rare that I would play it put that many hours into a game. Strategy games I play a lot like. But that's like throughout several years, I definitely will be playing this

a lot more. Just right now, I kind of need a break. But it was talking to the devs, they were like they knew from the start when they first sat down and make this game that they were going to tweak or alter recontent actualized Breath of the Wilds world. They also knew that they really liked throughout playtesting Breath of the Wild like the emergent shit that happens from the ruinabilities. So they're like, let's just go hard on that.

And like the idea came out, it's like, let's just give players cheat codes, like let them know clip from the beginning of the game, let them reverse items along their trajectory and make those items indestructible as well. For the most part, let's make them let's let them craft stuff. It's like, this might be too much. I think we're giving players too much freedom.

But then they started to see these slow the drizzle and then the waterfall of Breath of the Wild, like YouTube videos of like, hey, did you know you could do this? And they're like that gave them confidence. So while I don't think they designed the game specifically to be this reddit social media phenomenon, they knew it was going to be, but I do think

it has legs. Maybe not on the level of Minecraft, because Minecraft is designed to just be kind of infinite with whatever you want to do and make, and this like just by definition as an action adventure game, well it is just a bit more limited than Minecraft. But it's still if people are making like orbital lasers already, or there's one I saw on Reddit the other day that I'm like, I did try making something like that. This player

definitely finessed it way more than I did. But I was like, oh, I made a bomber plane to drop bombs, but I was like, right, but how do I get the bombs to release from it? And then again I found another new ZONEI device that I had not found, the dispenser for yet or the Shrine for it was like, oh my god,

this can release the bombs if I'm over enemies or whatever. So like, but I see people on Reddit doing this stuff and it's like my theory crafting meets what they're making, and I'm like, I do think this game like similar to how there's still videos today I'm sure of on YouTube of like people figuring out stuff you could do in Breath in the Wild. Though, I feel like we'll be talking about this game for like a decade out. I

mean it, we'll be talking about it for a while. I mean think about it this way, like they're like when I was doing the punch Out stuff, there are still breakthroughs in like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen and ways to beat fighters that that was thirty years after it came out, and that was not nearly as open as something like this. It's the modern punch Out,

the same game. Well, Mary, you asked about the Minecraft thing, and I think Minecraft is at its heart like a creation thing, so you can create so many things like that is what Minecraft is with this with Here's the Kingdom, I think it's more like these tools you can't make literally anything with the tools gives you, but imagine what it can do for speed running and imagine the different ways, Like that community is going to be insane

for a very long time. Has there been anyone who's like beat it in a ridiculous amount of time already? Probably like what like six minutes now? On Saturday, the day after it came out, someone beat it in like eighty minutes, which I truly don't. So that's the different thing here though, because they do they Acarina thing and the castle is floating and like surrounded

by shit. Oh yeah, I don't know how they even got to the castle let early, so like they definitely had to do some sequence breaking, Like it's it's hard. It's funny to imagine that sequence breaking can still exist in a game that's designed to be about sequence breaking, Like people are still figuring out how to break a game that's about how do I break this game? Where I can clip through the wall and reverse time really breaking it?

And I don't know how they got to Hierro Castle. I didn't watch it. I just saw that they beat in like eighty minutes or something. It's like good for them. The wild you can you can just walk up to the front door and fight Gannon and you're gonna can't do that. You can't do that here for like A to B. But I I have to look up how they did. It must have been some sort of actual exploit unless

I'm unless there's something kind of past missing. I don't even know what the fucking like like fine Zelda, but like I don't really know, like what do I have to do to get to the castle, Like I'm it's not as explicit as like defeat Gannon in Breadth of Wild you know, yeah, yeah, isn't that You're because they give you like objectives and isn't that like your first objective defeat game. It's like, oh okay, fuck all right, yeah right now, like right now, it's up to you whatever he

and I I'd like some hearts, like some more health. I love the stuff where it's like we're talking about the direction stuff earlier, and like the only like explicit direction I feel like I've gotten is like enough characters have told me like hey, check out Northwest. You know it's pretty cold up there. Oh, like there have been enough things. It's like okay, it's it's telling me like the way brought the Wild kind of Leddy towards the Zora

area. I can tell it's it's leading me Northwood. I was so wrong with my choices in the first game. I did them all opposite. I think you can do that and you the game and enjoyed your enjoyed your time. Like I like the things where, um, I've noticed things in the

game. I don't want to spoil anything, but like you know, you'll notice something in the game and not really think much of it, and then you'll like just be in the middle of the field or crossing a bridge and you see somebody with a backpack and you talk to them and they'll be looking up at the sky or something to be like, oh man, that's crazy about those like rocks falling from the sky. Huh, And like they'll just

say something that's not an instruction. It's not like, hey, you could do this, but it's like they're talking about it in a way where it's like hang on. And then you have the realization and you test it out, you're like, oh, fuck, that's amazing, and like that was just a guy on a bridge that wasn't a scripted thing. That was like sure they could have planted that guy in your way or whatever, but it

all just feels very natural. It's scripted in a way, but it's very similar to what Mike was talking about with how they avoided putting paint unbreakable objects. It's the same concept. They're teaching you very naturally and organically in a way that allows you to keep your immersion. So I also had a thing fall from the sky right in front of me, and I was like,

what the shit is that? You know, you have to check it out and you don't know what it is yet naturally coming across a character later that you don't have to talk to who's like, hey, did you see these weird things falling from the sky? And I was like, yeah, I have, mister, what's up with that? Like, I was so excited that he brought it up because I had been seeing them and I was very

curious about it. That is like the ultimate way, as opposed to a screen that's like, hey, just so you know, these things falling from this guy, you can do stuff with them. It's the anti game design game design. These things are all happening to make you feel like you're just in a world. And a guy was like, have you seen this weird

shit? Happening, and it's all meant to guide you in a natural way, and holy shit, like wouldn't expert, wouldn't expert lesson in game design they've made and refreshing in the way that like, look, I've heard Jedi fallen fucking whatever is good like, and I played Jedi Fallen whatever the news Star Wars thing Jedi play Jedi sur I played ten minutes of it, and it was just like one of those things where I played ten minutes and every

single thing was like, now here's this guy and he's got this weapon, and now the pop up says do this when this happens, and I do that once and it's like all right, now do this when this happens. It's like okay, yeah, I get it. All right. We're gonna teach you know that you could spin your lightsaber to deflect bullets, and it's just like teach me, don't tell me. Yeah, Zelda teaches you. Every element of Zelda is like, hey, we just taught you fusion.

We put a pile of shit on the ground, and also you need to get to this next island and there's a break in the cable, so what are you gonna do? You figure it out, doesn't tell you anything, but it's giving you all the pieces that you need to solve it and have that ah home moment on your own. It's genius. The only limit I would be worried about is like, I don't know kid friendly this is.

I don't how many kids are gonna understand to fuse this stuff, Like I don't see a lot of twelve year olds loving this game or dad friendly. I mentioned it before about the controls, like, I think that the controls were a little too much for someone like my dad who doesn't play a lot of games. Also, I was gonna get him this for his birthday, but after playing that, it's like the controls and just the complexity of these

systems. You know, I saw the stuff he struggled with Breath of the Wild, and like, I'm just straight up telling him, like game it's only for core gamers. You heard it here first. I mean, it's it's a tough game. Also, the combat is like I'm dying more than

I didn't. Yeah, they it feels like they definitely I got one shot a lot, and I think it's the result of they're giving you a lot more power in terms of what weapons you craft, and you can come into a fight with something that you might yeah you might, yeah, follow your your yours is a different problem. It's like you could be gather a monster apart from the other side of the world that they might not have intended that you have, but they kind of did so now they've made attacks hurt you

more. Um which as a side note, this game is extremely funny, like you could tell that they're trying to be goofy, specifically because so much of the game your weapons. You have to craft your weapons, and many of them come from monster parts. I love that lore wise to justify that

all the monster's horns are just like weapon shaped. Now, it's like the guy has a battle axe for a like a unicorn horn like you get when you start getting like the silver bow, Hobbins and lionels popping up when you've gotten far enough in the game, their horns are like that's clearly like it's that looks like the Master sword popping out of their head. This is so

stupid, it's amazing. I have died in the dumbest fucking ways where it's like because of systems in the game, where it's like I remember one time I was so excited that I made this, uh, this flame spitting club. It was pretty early in the game. It was like, oh, I fuse this thing together and you can have a flame club or a shield. Yeah. And so like a couple of blue choo Choo jellies or whatever

popped up out of the ground. It like, oh, these motherfuckers, they're not ready for this, And I specifically switched to my flame shooting thing and I like burnt them. But here's the thing, I kill them. So I defeated both enemies, but they were blue choo choos. But when they die by flame, they turn red, and the choo choo jelly is red, and the grass around them caught on fire, which caused an updraft

which caused the red choo Choo jellies to fly up in the air. And I'm just looking at them after my victory, and then it rained down and I just burnt to death, right, Yeah, that's that happened to me. That's ridiculous. The Chuji jellies are great also the fact that you can throw any item in your inventory. Yes, yes, Chuoji jellies are great. If you stock up on blue jellies and just keep them in your inventory dry so blue. You just drop five in the ground. You can throw

anything with the ice element at them and they'll turn into ice jellies. So in what do those do? What do you? What do the ice the white chochoo do? Yeah? I haven't really used twotoos in any kind of wet unless it spoilies, because I like to discover what it's yeah around with the shoot you stuf. Yeah. I have really liked muddle buds. Dazzle Dazzle fruit are my favorite. But muddle buds are awesome, good names, good flavor texts, good games. There's so much going on here. The

Hirol Compendium, a little fucking Pokemon snap bet a game. Have you fought any lazelfos yet? I think a couple? Yeah, fuse with their tails, try that out with their tails? Yeah. How about the fucking Horroblins that are just doing the fucking dog on the fucking like God, they suck. I hate those guys. They. I got a silver Horroblin horn that's fused to my link to the past sort I found in a chest and it's like it's about to break, and I really don't want it to because it

does a lot of damage. It's doing like seventy five damage or something, but it's I really don't want it to break My street branches do like six and I'm telling it, I'm fusing them with rocks. Stone ages. You do want to go from the Stone age to like fucking modern day in this

game. I didn't notice this, but Bonk brought up that, Like they do kind of a little meta commentary on like some characters like yeah, so these weapons will break and like they're all decayed and fucked up and everything, and like some people hate that, but like, hey, it gives you a chance to try a bout of different stuff justifying their design in the characters kind of a little finger to the weapon durability boses. Yeah, because I

mean that's the thing, Like I get it. It's frustrating, but like that was such a wh whenever somebody wants to sho breath the wild, that's the like, oh the weapons break, yeah, okay, whatever, but integral to the design though, like you exactly have any reason they go yeah, yeah. So I just found it funny that they brought it up and like kind of just mocked people from making too big of a deal out of that. I think it's a great choice. It's a very strong choice.

But I think it shows guts that they they weighed the pros and cons, and again they chose fun. They chose the fun of testing new weapons. Then for you to fall in love with a weapon and get married to it, and they're right and you're wrong. Yeah, if I had one sword that shoots fire and was super strong, I would never fucking try. You

would never get rid of it. I wouldn't be like yeah now. But now, even with fuse in Breadth of the Wild, at a certain point, I started ignoring bo cobblin camps and ship It's like, I don't need to fight them, Let's save the inventory and Tears of the Kingdom. However, you see some high level bo coblems from Distrar's like, oh fuck, I want their horn for a good weapon to fuse with my really strong hilt. It's like, now they've even made like this late in the game with

my number of inventory slots and shit, I'm doing that less. But for long stretches of the mid game, I was like, I'm going to go fight them. I need more monster harvesting. Harvesting those horns. Yeah, um, what was the what was that one more throwable item? I was going to mention, h I love being sword by most used. So it's like if I need a bright seed or a bomb flower or a fire fruit,

it's always is right there. You know that's nice. Yeah, but anyway, um it was Liz alf was tell I mentioned it, um, but yeah, no, not throwing them in summary. In summary, it seems good. I mean, this is probably we've ever talked about a game on this podcast. Yeah, and we'll be talking about it. They'll be

new things that we discovered. And the funniest part is that, like it's kind of like generations talking because next time we talk, I'll be like, man, I am thirty hours deep and I just found this cool lady in a pool, and Mike's gonna be like, yeah, I know, like I've been there, like I did that like weeks ago. Like you'll know all the things that we discover and talk about, you've both probably seen stuff

I didn't see, which is what's cool about this game. You know what's insane is that, like twenty seventeen, Breath of Wild came out and nothing has even like we have not caught up like no game, No, they've been a lot of open world games since then, none of them have captured that feeling at all. Something moved more in that direction, but they haven't captured that. Twenty twenty twos Game of the Year was probably the closest, and it took five years from from software to sort of oh yeah, yeah.

Honestly, that was the first time since Breath Wilde really had that feeling. And like now it's like, imagine just working on an open world game and playing this mix. Fuck man, come on, like, yeah, this is like this feels like it's from like decades beyond us. You know. Yeah, you're you're you're fucking over here slaving away on like making a BIC while Nintendo's like releases the Harley Davidson. You're like, fuck the next

Horizon. Horizon was literally about to release one with drafting, and they're like, god damn it. Yeah, they keep doing this to us. Um Also, her game is baring, very it's very boring. What do they do? They should make a game that's not boring. They're they're plank Killzone was boring, a Horizon boring branch out make a that boring game for once. This is yeah, I don't know are you gonna argue that our Kills

on the Horizon not boring series? I like hers more than you guys, But yeah, I don't think there were anywhere in the same arenas Zelda. Um, are you playing anything else? Did you play anything else? Oh, Queen Contrarian, I'm playing. Hey, Dan played. I don't know if it's indie, but Dan played a like unique game as well. I would at least call it that, Like you didn't. You didn't play a

standard game. You played Humanity. It's weird. I did. Oh, yeah, you're a spirit dog that is teaching you stuff about life and humanity by doing livings puzzles. It's uh, have either you played it? It's it's no, but I saw a lot of footage and it's crazy. First of all, the whole look and vibe of it is really good. I think it's by the tet respect people. Yes, which is also like very like that should say something. Yeah, it's it's it's very very stylished.

It's very much just got a vibe going for it, and it works. It totally works. Um. But the thing I I I love Limmings. Lemmings was fun, and that series has not really been a thing for a very long time. And that was frustrating though and stressful in a way that like if you ever played Lemmings, it was like, Okay, you're gonna get graded on the end or pass fail based on like this many Limmings have out of one hundred or whatever have to live. Yeah, this one,

I just really love that. Like it's this constant flow of people of humanity coming out of this like ethereal door or whatever, and you need to lead them from point A to point B using of a right. You're a spirit dog that can lay down a bunch of commands like oh, turn here, jump here, I'm going to give you this kind of floatability here, and a lot of them are just gonna die or fall off or whatever, and

it doesn't fucking matter. Like yeah, I mean you will need to restart from time to time because sometimes it's like, oh, I need these guys to push these blocks in a certain way, but oh I forgot that this this branch of people is going to push it off the cliff or whatever. So I'll restart. But you can restart and you can keep all your commands. So is your goal just to get one human through? What's your goal?

So you have to get a certain amount of people, like there will be a square and it's like with enough flow of people, it'll kind of fill up and being light up and you're done. But sometimes there's two of them, so it's like you need to get two of them active at the same time. And then there's these bonus things. There's these gold guys that

you can find. So there might be one, two, three of these Goldies in the levels, and you have to have your path of people go through them and lead them, and if they die or whatever, it's like failed, you didn't get that. I mean, you can still finish the level, but it's really like I have not gone past the level and not gotten every Goldie just because it's like, no, I'm fucking figuring this out before I move on. And so there is that kind of stress of like,

oh, fuck's that Goldie's about to walk off the cliff. So that's one where it's like you might have to restart, but you can keep all the commands. So like, let's say there's a really elaborate level where it's like I've put down fifteen arrows and jump pads and stuff like that, and it's like, okay, well, I failed, but I want to restart and let me tweak some things here, and you can pause the action. You can fast forward people if like you've set all the arrows the way you

want, I mean, you just want to see it. Hold are two. It's just it's it's very much scratching a Lemmings itch for me that has not been scratched. I loved Lemmings as a child. This is like, you're kind of selling me on this game. I'm really interested in playing it after I saw a really crazy gameplay of so many people like in an area and telling them what to do and stuff, and I didn't realize it was Lemmings. ESK. That's a huge selling point to me. Yeah, you're

a dog. You're just a dog running around and jumping and just by the way, and every time you do a command, it barks. So my dogs are fucking loving it. Razor is freaking out. Yeah. I'm like maybe an hour and a half, two hours into it or something like that. Like I think there's like seven kind of worlds and I'm about to start

three I think, so I'm pretty early on. But it's it's all been really really fun and it just feels like one of those things where it's like when you figure it out, you can do it right or you can do it wrong. And yeah, you know when you figured it out and you have those aha and it's like, oh fuck, if I give them float before they fall off this, then they'll you know, whatever it's it's definitely worth checking out. I think it's on PS plus, so check that out

if you have that cool. Apparently you kished something last week last episode, Mary, No, I didn't. Um, I've been good, which one knows it? Let me look at least here's the Kingdom. It's free subject line. The subject line was, go, oh she kished it again. I everyone just wanted to let you know that Mary kissed it again as Peku Niku is on game Pass and has Benson's launch no I on the switch from

me well from Long Island. Oh well no, okay, Well that's different if it was like specifically, so you can play on the plane, yeah, playing for the CONVENI for free, but you couldn't have played it on the plane. Then well you can get game passed on you don't you game past? What are you thinking? You? Absolutely? Yeah, I gotta do some crazy stuff. We're not how to do that. Yeah, no, I did that. Fuck your thing. What else have you been playing?

What have you been playing? A game called Space Gladiators. Uh, it came out on consoles, so I gave it, gave it a whirl. It's a rogue light. You are a you kind of look like an egg or a potato, very oval and uh thick outlined cartoon creatures comatche and you are collecting abilities every time you get to the I would call it like a call of The reason it's called Space Gladiators is because you're going through these

procedurally generated spaces and so you never know what enemy you're gonna face. But the important thing is is at the end of each area, maybe level you could call it, you go to a coliseum where you fight like twenty of these monsters and if you get through, then you get all these bonuses and you get to go to the next level. When you die, you're done and you have to start all the way over from scratch with nothing. It

has a what's that game called I'll think of it um. I think it's called like the super Meat Boy guy made it h Basement Boy Finding You guys got that from Basement Boy. I really appreciate that. Yeah, he's a basement, he cries, that's right, So it looks like that it has that style to it. Basement boy. My brain stopped working halfway through the

sentence. I was saying, uh, does that a lot? I think what's neat about it is if you like Binding of Isaac, there's a lot of similarities where you will find an upgrade and maybe you like it, maybe you don't, But the whole point is to try it and see if it works for your current build, for your character, and if you die, then who cares? You just start over anyway, so you just throw it all away. But I found a really interesting one, which was I could

no longer get any health from anything. No food, nothing, nothing would increase my health. But right before I go to a coliseum, it one hundred percent gave me full life. So as long as I could make it to the coliseum, I got one hundred percent health, which is a really interesting build. It was just a really interesting character development. And I was collecting all these other abilities as well. Some of them are gross. One of them was by fart every like three to five seconds, and the gas

cloud poisons my enemy. So I'm running around farting. I had one that either there's simple ones right where you do bleed damage or thorns that's a classic where when you get hit you automatically retaliate against everyone in the room. Lots of different upgrades, lots of different ways to build a character, but because it's rogue Light, once you die, you start from scratch and you may not ever get those options for a long time. In fact, you probably

will never have that same build again. And that's really up to you whether or not you find that frustrating or interesting, because if you love a build, you might never ever get it again, but you're always practicing and trying

new, new, weird builds. I mean, you mentioned Binding of Isaac, and like, I will always associate that with the first time I became familiar with like what a roguelite roguelike meant, because I think I was a game informer and everybody was talking big on it and I played it, or I died and I started over, and I was like someone worked probably ten or something. I was like, wait, I just start over and say, oh yeah, I start over every time you die, and it's like,

what fuck that? Why would I ever play this game? You have to start over every time you die, remember, you know, being full on you know Dan, just like that. The game suck? Why would you ever do that? And then fast forward a year or two and it's like my favorite fucking genre, you know, Like, yeah, but I didn't. I did not understand it back then. I didn't understand the appeal of it. And I agree, it's definitely not for everybody. I think

it's simple in other ways. The artistic style is simple. It's also repetitive because when you're playing a game like this, you're gonna play the same starting area, right. The idea here is that every time you make it through a colosseum, and I think you have to get through three colosseums. Maybe I might be wrong, but it's let's just say you have to go through like three ish areas that lead to a coloseum before you get to the next

area. You start underground. Then maybe you get above ground, you end

up going to wiley places. But it really sucks dying and then being like, well, I'm under the fucking ground again, and I'm going to see the same dirt for as many hours as it takes me to have a build that I can escape this place again, so I do think that that is draining to a degree, but it's also fun to experience the different character builds and you do level up your character over time for what it's worth, So similar tote, there's a couple of things like that are similar to like a

hades esk where it's like one of the things is you get a map and you have to choose three different areas and it lets you know if it's a fight, if it's platforming. That's unique, so instead of fighting, it'll be a bunch of saws and you have to maneuver your character delicately through the

space without taking damage or mystery. Who doesn't love that. It's like a question mark and you come across the character and sometimes the characters are benevolent and just give you something and help you, and sometimes they're not and they do something that you don't like. Sometimes it's a random pick one of these three boxes and it's sometimes it's something really amazing that will really help your journey, and sometimes it's like an egg and you're like, I don't know what the

shit this is and then you die with it. So very h random, but I I don't know. I enjoyed the hours that I spent with it. It's called Space Gladiators. I also like the colosseum colosseum concept, which is a bunch of people in the background, like cheering, and then just all these dudes coming at you and you're essentially fighting for their for the glory, and they're cheering and booing you based on how good you do. I think that's like a funny concept that I'm just like, I'm fighting for the

attention of the people. You know, I'm getting the thumbs up or the thumbs down. Freedom. That's right, that's right. What there's like other lines from that from Gladiator that I don't remember what we do in life echoes in eternity. It's not what he says, what we do in life echoes in it. Yeah, but you said it like the Godfather. Oh yeah, I was definitely you come to me on this the day of my Goddess we come around uncanny, mister Brando. Welcome to the podcast. Um cool,

Space Gladiators. Anything else you've been playing? Time? I got? I got games of my hard drive that aren't out yet that I am extremely excited for. That I'm just not even fucking touching because I got ship Zelda is absolute priority for it. Yeah, it's gonna be a hot minute. I also have there's some game pass games that I will not kish that I'm looking forward to playing pretty soon. Um, but we'll get there when we get there. So got Diabla four right around the corner. Got street Fighter

six right around the corner. Street Fighter? All right? You guys want to do some emails? Yeah, yes, all right. As always, you can write into fire escapecast at gmail dot com for questions, comments, corrections, the ladder of which goes through a filter that sends it straight to the trash. Um. That's firescapecast at gmail dot com. All right, We've got two emails this week from listeners viewers fire escape ees. Uh, Mary, do you want to read this? First? One from Cold Stair

aka Derek. Yeah? Right, I hope your Zelda's and links are treating you well. How many clones of yourself would it take to kill Mike Tyson in a deathmatch with no rule? What a lovely intro he is. I'm gonna actually start that again. I think it's really important we understand the rule. Yeah, yeah, how many clones of yourself would it take to kill Mike Tyson in a deathmatch with no rules. He is in his absolute prime and your clones are you at this very moment. You can swarm him with

numbers. It's not one v one. I'm going to stop there because there's a second question I'd like to start. Start with that. Derek from Ottawa, thank you twelve A baker or a regular? No, A shoot doesn't? Yeah. I at a certain point, Look, I am not a strong man. I've never been in a fight. I'm out of shape and my body hurts. And we're talking prime Mike Tyson, the scariest human being that's ever walked the earth. I think twelve is about the point where it's

just like, listen, he's going to be focused on it. If there's four in front of him that he's focused on punching at, that means a bunch more getting behind him, just trying to get him in a chokehold or something, two or three jumping on his back, arms around the neck, just dragging him down to just sheer weight wise, you know, if he had eight hundred pounds on his back, you know, like right, But like Mike Tyson is prime. He it's not like it's just gonna be twelve

v one, Like he's gonna kill a few of you. We're talking to the death. Yeah, we're talking eighteen year old Mike Tyson. No, it's gonna be like one punch man. You're gonna have twelve dans coming at him and he's just gonna punch through all of you, and he'll hit the first one and like dominoes, you'll all die well, and all twelve are really scared and afraid to move. So it's like he's you're right, he is just gonna like process of elimination. He will just kill them all kill

right, It's not gonna be just twelve one. You need enough where he can kill a sizeable chunk and it's still overwhelming number. It's just in a boxing ring. Does he have gloves on or it says no rules, it's just Dynasty Warriors, no weapons, no weapons. Okay, so this is like Dynasty Warriors, no weapons, just in a field. Um, I

think about him killing them. He would kill a lot before you. He would kill even though, like kill sixty of you minimum before you, before you touch him, he's still gonna throw a bunch of like a bunch of you could jump on him and try to choke hold. He would be strong enough to still throw a few of you off, like he's gonna be flalling. Would he would just reach by, find him and pick you up like

you're a tick. I think I think a dozen is my number. You're crazy, you're both crazy, A hundred per I think, I'm think fifty for me now that I think, I'll say twenty. Life have a sense of how scary he was when I showed you didn't watch together like a ko an. He's been like I ever read it. This is Bianca too, where it's like, oh, yeah, you know he's a big famous boxer and stuff. But I think a lot of people that weren't alive during that didn't realize, like, no, he's not just a good boxer, He's

he thinking murders people. He is a fucking stone cold killer. He could kill you with his fists, Like of course you could land a punch, but then he'll kill you. I still think twelve. I'm going twelve, like he makes draw mary. The only thing this might not be fair because I have a lot of boxing experience, so this might not be super fair. I'm not going to survive of this. You can't do this he would kill both of you. Okay, reminds me of when they were like,

did you like statistically, we can look it up. I don't remember the actual statistic of how many men thought that they could return a serve from Serena Williams, and it was like an absurd amount. It was like it was like thirty percent. Thirty percent of men were like, I mean I could return a serve from a woman, and it's like that ball would go clean through your skull, you stupid person. He's not like, this is no rules. It's not like he's going to be like waiting for the ref to

ding ding. He's going to come at you like a fucking massive, unbelievable, fucking wait. He's going to just grab you and throw you. He's going to squeeze your neck, twelve of me. He's gonna squeeze your neck, you like a pimple. He's gonna be grabbing your neck of us, breaking them. He'll break Dan, He'll he will pick you up and break you. He'll break I think he's just gonna punch. I think all you need to do is punch a lot. That's a thing once. I'm just

saying he'll twelve twelve is all I need. Twelve of us jumping on him. I weigh one sixty twelve of us just getting on top. Sure, a bunch of us are gonna die, but like it's a matter of just like at a certain point you suffocate him. It's the battle of attrition. Yeah, there's my number. I think would be two hundred and fifty.

No, realistically, I say twenty twenty. What if four of four of me are on his back dragging him down, two or three of me are just shifting their pants in a corner, and the rest are just like gouging eyes and kicking balls. That's what I was thinking. You know, you're gonna need a bell one hundred, That's what I'm thinking. So the reason I say fifty is the first fifty he's just gonna be doing this. You have to get him tired. So I'm just gonna be sending waves and waves

of mary at him while he's like getting a little tired. He's gonna just be like, oh my god, I'm killing so many women, and he's like gonna be a little exhausted. After about fifty or sixty years. Then women I'm getting I gotta kill him. And so then we start going for his legs, right, and now he's gonna he's gonna like bash a couple of them and knock me down. But once we get to about one hundred, we'll have enough around his ankles that the other of us can push him

over. And that's when the eye gouging starts. Once you start poking his eyeballs and we can get a couple, we both get both eyeballs down and he's blind. I got a chance, But then I think it's gonna take another fifty to actually kill him. How are you killing him? Uh? Well, we're not. You know, no weapons, is what I've been told. So I was just gonna like put my fists together and just smash his skull bludgeon with my own. But it's gonna take a lot of me.

And like I said, I'm gonna lose fifty from the get go, just to tire him out, just to wear him down. I think he's gonna have to kill it out fifty of me. Twelve Fuck off, twelve, I'm spending normal people. I'm just thinking of, like how easily he was like destroying the brains of professional fighters with one punch regularly during his career. Imagine us our heads are just flying off, damaged the brains of professional

fighters. He got a lot of boxing experience. Really, this wouldn't necessarily be the unfair well realistically speaking, him put a fist clean through your skull and then looking at each other and you're like, yeah, we still got this. I do not got me. I make it clear, I do not got this. It's the stubbornness. I think like two dozen to me, we'd have it. I'd be doing like weird gorilla tactic. I'd be like scratching at his ankles and trying to get like feces in there, and

like, well, we'll break him down over time. He's gonna get sick. Anybody who is not did not grow my guys, give him Gang Green. Look up Mike Tyson Ko montages, but then also look up Mike Tyson interview montage, just because it's like it's a two pronged thing with him. It's him murdering people with punches and him saying things like I'm going to eat his children, and you believe him him my style, My style is impregna. So I was impetuous. My dependent is impregnable. He's not Alexander.

I'm a Alexander. I want your heart. I'm gonna eat his children. But he also says I'm sunny. Listen, I'm Jack Dempsey. I'm cut from their cloth. It's at the beginning of one of um oh, is it talb? Well, Mike hus is out of control? All right, I'm twelve baby. Question twelve deaths okay, thirteen shortest match in the history. I will wait, wait really quick. I will say twelve of me would stand a better chance to kill Mike Tyson than I have to return a

Serena Williams serve. Yeah. Yeah, it's more likely that I would beat Mike Tyson than return a serve from her. I agree. I think we should all take a lesson that you cannot return a serve from Serena Williams. But like the statistics of that of how many people are like I think I can return a serve. It's just like you fool. That's like saying you could hit you could just step on into a baseball field and hit a fastball from from Kurt Schilling. It's because it's Serena woman, so it's different.

Yeah. Second question from Mike, could you shoot a shotgun? At the water to break your fall if you jumped from a high place, or we're talking about spreading my much cheeks. Yeah, no, I don't want to

break my fall. That's the whole point. I want the water up my rectum, Like I don't I want that a nurse man, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna fucking make up a day not do what I wanted to do with a shotgun, although, like Tears of the Kingdom has me thinking like maybe there's a way to repel, like that's that's Tears the Kingdom level thinking. But no, I want I'm spreading my cheeks specifically so it shoots up. And what if you could fill a shotgun with water and shoot it up

your ass? What if I could? Or like what if I did and I did? They say a body is seventy five percent water. Not mine. I'm pushing, I'm hydrated, unbothered, I have a gun up my ass. People come over to our apartment and it's like, oh man, it's like, oh, he's just doing a shotgun animal. It's fine. It's like that Homer when he made the makeup. Yeah, women don't want to be shot in the face. How many people like, I know, people get really into guns. How many people do you think have put guns

up their ass? Oh my god, Dan, what kind of question is that? Genuine? One? Five thousand genuine? I have no idea. I mean, it's a non zero. What more would it take more dance to kill Mike Tyson than people who have actually put so many probably put like you don't know what gets people going? Derek from Ottawa, Thank you so

much for this question. Dan, you want to read this second. This one's more game oriented from Alex. Yes, Hey, Gang, Whenever VR comes up, it's nearly always with the context that it's not there yet. People still get sick and have to take a break. Ye. My question is at some point does that go away or is that always going to be an innate problem? Giving your DP expertise and the tech development world, is

VR ever going to get there? Alex, I think I'm a long enough timeline, Like, look, it's not gonna be this exact same thing it's been for the last you know, five ten years. It's gonna get better, it's gonna get lighter, it's gonna like find clever ways to kind of get around some of the stuff. Whether it becomes the fucking like Ready Player one dominant, like everyone's fucking in VR and it's you know, like whatever Zuckerberg's vision of it is or whatever. I don't know in our lifetimes if

it's getting there. I think we're so far away from it right now, and I don't really see a lot of Look at the fucking PlayStation VR two that came out what two months ago, and no one fucking talks about it ever. Ever, Ever, it's less. Yeah, the tech will get there to the point where it's just like a pair of normal glasses we could put on like that size and like headphones. At that point it'll be comfortable.

It's like, well enough people keep buying each iteration to make companies think it's worth making getting there, And I don't know like that for a fact, Like there's money in VR, we won't get there. Yeah, there is money in being able to transport people who cannot go to a place and make them feel that they're going to place. So yes, we'll get there. I agree with Dan, I'm not sure if we'll get there in our gen I think it's going to take years for technology to get us to a

place where you genuinely feel like you are transported safely and without sickness. But we will get there, and I don't think it will ever go away. You will never see a world in which people aren't pursuing VR so much money. It's a white whale man ideah. But like PSBR did not sell well at all, I know, but a lot of VR didn't sell well and will continue to make it because there's money in the concept of it. When I am old, I will put on a headset and I will run through

fields and kill Mike Tyson when I am like ninety. So that's my question is like how many iterations of it have to fail commercially before they're like it's not even worth Like, yeah, it's it's, it's it's it's gonna not make money every time until they finally get and then it'll make money. But like, how do you yeah, like, is there a period where it kind of like right now we're still seeing frequent releases of in VR two and

The Quest two and stuff like that. Is there a downtime, like a dormant time of you know, ten fifteen years and then there's some tech breakthrough. I think there will all be a sudden you know, like or do they keep kind of trying for fifteen years and failing until it gets a little better. Like what I'm saying, it's like, I don't know how, I don't know who who's going to keep pouring the money into this development if it's gonna just fail every time. Like PSVR two, I don't know offhand

whether failure is too strong of a word. I know they definitely did not sell extremely well. But as someone who I think likes VR the VR two but more than most people, but even I still like it's just a bit of a hassle, like it needs to be. It's the best r head said, I think, but I still have not put it on past the coverage I did when it launched. Yeah, so like Humanity, I'm playing

Humanity now. I loaded it up and it said there's like a PSBR two or whatever, and I was like, yeah, there's my helmet or my headset right there. I could, but it's just we're not there. It's not it's not a better experience than just sitting here and playing with controller. I'm just saying, like, I don't think they're complete overt failures either. You're probably assuming that what makes technology like that successful is how many copies or

how many pieces of hardware it sells. But there's actually a lot more to it than that you can sell the test I've just admitted several times there's more to it. I'm just saying how many iterations. I'm just saying it's a little bit bigger than what you think mine. But that's like, yeah, that's I think it'll open your mind up a little bit. Mike, take some drugs. You're fucking you, heap of bones. I think there's there's a lot of different ways to make money with VR is So I think there's

more going on than what meets the eye. And I think it's such an untapped resource because of the potential there when we talk about like when this is crazy because technology has come such an un believable elaborate like VR wasn't possible well a couple decades ago, and now it's crazy what's possible. So I'm weary of saying it won't happen in our lifetime. I suspect in the next twenty thirty years it's going to be pretty fun. What's the curve called Isaac curve?

No, Isaac's what the hell? I'll look it up there's one that's like, ah, comes Razor. No, there's one Palmer's peak thought experiments at me, It's like, that's it at a certain point, like the curve, just like levels off and you've hit like the peak of that tech you're trying to make, and it's like, we're nowhere near that yet for VR, Mary, you're right, And then you say that like you could

sell the tech and stuff like that. But on the other end, like if you are a game developer and you're trying to say what your next project is that you're going to invest money in, and like you look at it, you're like, well, no one's really like the install base for this headset is like no one really buying it or whatever, Like are you going to even put the time and effort into making a good VR experience when you

could just make a traditional game? And probably so way more. You know, yes, because a company will come to you and say we're making a brand new, cool piece of tech, and we will give you twenty million dollars to make this game and hello, we're a PlayStation day. It happens

all the time. I have a girlfriend who worked in VR who specifically, well she was making regular indie games and then switched to VR because they were like, well, just pay you money, and she was like, I actually have safer income taking corporations money to make and try an experiment and make

funky new VR games. And it's actually been really liberating for a lot of game developers because they're basically giving you a bag of money and saying all we're asking for is to make it in VR, but go have fun, make whatever you want, and so they they don't have to worry anymore. Capitalism works because someone's making money off something. Yes, so who is making The developers are getting paid, that's like, that's great, the people who are

funding it. At what point do they start saying, oh, we haven't made any money. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. It's if we were to like get VR to its peak, there will be a lot of money there. I'm saying, yeah, maybe it is something like maybe Games for a finally will take a break from it for a bit until it gets more of fine, and then they come back with the PSVR three and it's fucking awesome or something. But like that's my confusion. I'm not saying I know.

I'm just like, why why do these companies think they're gonna make money off it run by idiots, idiots that my question is it a pyramid scheme. Companies latch onto every fucking buzzword and like, look at fucking metaverse and NFT and look how quickly every douchebag fucking like every yeah work and those fucking calls and stuff. Where's like metaverse and yes, we're gonna You don't know what the fuck you're talking about NFT, Like somebody saw their idiot douchebag corp.

A friend on LinkedIn talk about NFT is being in the future, and everyone buys into it because they're dumb ass idiots with money, and like all the people who actually know the stuff say, no, this is actually pipe rings, isn't gonna work whatever, but they don't listen. But money still changes hands off of that, whether or not it's real or not. And I don't even think it's like that. They're like a bunch of like ding Dong's like pigeons walking around with money. I think what happens is is in the

VC world, in the venture capitalist world. I like heard this like interesting. I won't like get into details, but I heard this story of like someone who was like, oh, you have to like raise a little bit more money. Why don't you go raise another buck? And the team was like, raise how much? And they were like a buck a million, Because to venture capitalists, raising a buck a million is just like a thing that you do. You just raise a buck. We're talking about a ridiculous

sums of money. And when you're putting bids a buck into like six different pots, one of them is likely to make a return and return that value back. VR is always a bucket because it's an untapped resource that one day will return Mike's right, maybe it hasn't returned yet, but there's enough honeypots

out there. People are constantly like, I will put money into these three spaces and one of them will be VR, and one day that shit will be a cash cow and we'll be like, we knew it, We should have invested in the oculus twelve and you just you have to like, no, when to play that bet. This person that wrote this, Alex, is an investor and he's trying to get our sweet, sweet honey and I won't tell you which one to invest in, but it's coming, and it's

coming within the next twenty years. Twenty now, so in our lifetime, yes, I changed my mind. Okay, between okay, let's say of the three dumb honeypots here between VR, metaverse and NFTs. I know those last two can be kind of intertwined and stuff. Which one do you think in twenty years you could play this audio? Remember those like early audio from ninety five of like people like writing articles about the internet, but no one's

gonna be buying things on the internet. Which one? Yeah, mark my word, will we look like a dumb ass if we say like like which one? Facebook? Even Facebook Meta has started to walk back metaverse stuff. I don't think it'll be metaverse. That's they changed the name of the fucking company, right that and they're also not doing well. But um, that was I don't think the metaverse. I think people have realized the metaverse is done. NFTs I also think are not. There's more puney pots dan from

from if I were to guess a honeypot. That actually, from my very limited understanding, is like whenever I hear about the blockchain, it sounds to me like I don't know shit about the blockchain. I don't know how it works, what it does, why it's important. But everyone that seems like they know what they're talking about says that, like, the blockchain itself is like an interesting piece of technology. Yeah, NFTs and all that shit tied

to it are all just fucking like schemes and dumb stuff or whatever. I don't know why, but it seems like people are actually well actually, even like anti NFT people are like, the blockchain is actually a really interesting piece of technology that could actually like could change the Internet use. Yeah, yeah, I don't know what that means. Facebook started as something totally different as well as like the Harvard Is it some kind of food? Yeah? Can

I eat a blockchain? I love to imagine Dan as a venture capitalist, like walking around with like wads of money and being like, how would this compare to a train which I can also afford? They're like, I don't know, one am I invested in trains and this bullshit thing over here one of them? You're diversifying the portfolio, But yeah, that's important when I'm big king my hot pocket? Is it reheating? What are you doing for the hot pocket? You know, technology of tomorrow buy you could buy hot

pocket, like the thing the company? How many hot pockets could I get for a million dollars. Favorite dumb brand things is when like obviously some giant brand with a ton of money has been conned into thinking that like some metaverse

thing is a big deal. It's like, we're gonna host a big event in the metaverse, and the news of sea clips of like just some shitty ass looking dude up there like a Walmart stage and there's like two idiot avatars like spinning in circles or vomiting in the crowd, and some poor actual human has to be voicing this dipshit guy on the Walmart stage, and it's just the saddest, weirdest, most dystopian thing, and it's fucking hilarious to me.

I love that they're nowhere. They're nowhere near what they want to be with that stuff past. I feel like we're past it. Like I don't see as much metaverse. I think so, I think, But I not invest in anything based on what happens in this podcast. This is not like a money podcast where this is all hard. This is hard and fast Wall Street advice. Yea, I know what you can invest in. Fire Escape

merch our. Fire Escape merch always doubles or your money back. Don't quote me on that, or record this or keep it and play it back for us. It doesn't count. When you go to fire escapecast dot com or patreon dot com slash fire Escape, you'll go to our patreon fire Escape shut up. I was merch dot com. You'll head to our merch plage. Well, you will find a whole slew of investment opportunity. Fire escapecast dot Com goes to our paton. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Listen,

I wasn't done this bit. Why did you say that you went to a place that didn't go to I read the wrong. You guys didn't let me correct myself. Okay, we're just actively losing money by interrupting her telling people to buy our merch. I'm going to test all these ls. Let me finished my bit. Fire Escape merch dot com is where you'll get all of your investment opportunities. They always come back tenfold. All right, it checks out. I'm looking at mugs. I'm looking at the liquid beverage containers.

Yes, okay, okay, you're naming. It's a mug, yeah, a beverage container. No, they container is a water bottle. Yeah, they're all the same. For the other the other website, Dan, Yes, oh wait, yeah, I'll do Patron. Uh yeah. If you are a listener on Spotify or iTunes, thank you very much. We appreciate it. But if you're not a Patriot, and you can go to our Patreon you got a firescapecast dot com or patreon dot com slash fire Escape and

you can get ad free episodes for one tier. You can get video episodes for another. You can also just treat it as a tip jar if you'd like. If you like what we're doing, we appreciate the help. As we always say, the Patreon money is what allows us to do those big end of the year extravaganzas. Right now, the working plan is to go to Portland this year as opposed to Connecticut where we were last year, kind

of shift things around and give the West Coast some love this year. But Patreon, the patrons really make that possible because that's where we get the nest egg to be able to do travel and food when we're actually traveling for that Dan, Yes, what can people do on Spotify if they like the show? Look, folks, you gotta do a lot of things during your day that you don't want to do. Things that are a pain. You got

you gotta talk to your boss about a promotion. You gotta change a diaper, your sinks clogged up, you gotta buy draino, and you gotta get all the hair out of there. Things that you don't want to do, Things that are hard to do and take time. You know what doesn't take time and isn't hard to do. Load up your Spotify app. You might be listening to us right now on there, and just click the five star on the rating thing helps us out, thank you, and then if you

want to give us less than five stars. We actually go by different aliases. There's kind of funny. There's Conan O'Brien needs a friend. Ye armchair experts. Um cereal cereal, that's a new one. Is that still a thing? Yeah? I think so probably? Uh well, great those episode fifty five. We'll get Jake back on the crew. Next episode. He's traveling the world. Yeah, he'll be you'll, um, we'll all be able to we'll all be hanging out in a few weeks, in like a

month from this recording. Oh yeah we are, yes, yes, later in June. Um, yeah, we'll be back with episode fifty six. In a couple of weeks. That'll be Monday, July fifth. We'll be into July, June fifth, into June, different month, Junius, Caesar, true Dan. What do you have going on? I got your giant bomb dot com. Oh shit, we're coming up Summer Games Fest. We are going to be in LA on the ground. We got guests on the couch, we got stuff going on. I've been in meetings about that.

Kind of be a lot of fun, hopefully have some surprises, some fun, some good interviews, things like that. We'll be checking out games on the show floor. It's exciting. I have not been in Los Angeles and June playing games and talking about them on the internet since twenty nineteen. I guess not a lot of people have left. I left the industry for three years, and everyone also had to not do E three stuff for three years. Turns out something happened. But no, I'm excited to go back and

do this. Maybe I'll maybe I'll see you Mary, We'll see That would be awesome. I shall also be traveling for Twitch. Will be basically just doing our Twitch things and getting ready for twitch Con, which is happening this summer. But right now I'm essentially just running the games circuit and supporting streamers on Twitch. And you can't find me on the Twitch obviously, on Twitter and Instagram under my name Mary. Is that all you have going on?

Mary? You're sure you're not forgetting anything? You sure about that? I sure about. That's not why I don't have anything else cool happening to me. Really, nothing that you want to plug, nothing that you care about Resident Evil. There. I played Resident Evil with my best buddy Mike, and we have I think six episodes now, and they are just gotten very offended. You called me your best buddy. You guys worked together. You

guys worked together. I get it, we're good, butts uh No, it's because of a joke he told me the other day, and I said, that's some best bud joke stuff right there. That's how you know, you know, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just it's a consistent joke I do on this show. That's a reference to somebody I dislike. It's very funny to me. It bonds us. Anyway. The point is is that Resident Evil is up on our YouTube and it's three ninety nine.

You do not have to subscribe. You don't even have to like you don't have to do shit. You could just go to fire Escape cast YouTube channel and you will see the episodes. We should put it in a playlist. But it's been really funny, and it's gotten progressively funnier. And the last episode, we finally got Ashley and I'm walking through the graveyard with my gun drawn and I guess Ashley's AI just got confused and she runs right in front of me and I stabber and she ducked it though, yeah, you both

reacted quickly. I kill her multiple times in the latest episode, so it's worth watching. We should tell folks, if you enjoy fire Escape, you should follow the YouTube channel because you know, up until now, it's been like we didn't really have a reason to, like, you know, we had the Patreon stuff, like that's where we host the stuff, but it's

like we don't really plug it or anything. Well, now you guys are actually playing through Resident Evil on the fire Escape YouTube so obviously now that we've like established it, future stuff, Game of the Year things like that will be there. It's not like we're going to be video, but it makes sense to be there that you can see. Yeah, subscribing also is like very much we play when we can find an hour during the week, so like we don't have a set schedule, so if you want to know,

no, it's pretty random. It's pretty it's it's pretty random, but it's worth it. It's a really funny series and we love it. So do go check out Resident Evil on that. And then the last thing I wanted to plug is I was recently on Minimax show with Ben. It was very funny. We did trivia Trivia Tower. It's crazy the people who join this, they're so smart. They're basically wikis of games and they know every game

under the sun. And he'll give them the most ridiculous clue and they'll be like, oh, that's obviously Red Dead Redemption too, and it's just like, I'm blown away that they can pick out these games. But we did charades and I embarrass the everliving shit out of myself trying to I don't know, trying to charade games that I have no business doing. Am I embarrass myself multiple times. I try and reenact a scene from Detroit Become Human and

it is bad. That sounds amazing. I guess I could just watch the video. I'll describe it and then you guys come here. Actors in that game. Didn't know how the charades. You know, you understand how scharades are, you know how to talk and stuff like that, and he gave me games like Angry Birds, which I can handle. Right, I'm like, I'm a bird, you know, and like I'm angry. When I got Detroit Become Human, I was like, I literally don't know how to

tell people the word Detroit. I definitely don't know how to tell people the word become. And human is also really difficult to grab, and so I started re enacting the opening scene where you grab when that guys got that woman and he's like, I'll kill her woman, and Ben is like looking at me and he's like, I have no idea what this is from. And I was like, it's such an iconic scene. Like he was like yeah, she's like no, and he's like I'll kill you. And then I

was like, oh, right, you could be a robot. I never played that game. Iconic scene in Detroit. That's an oxymoron. Yeah, yea, I heard. I heard the news is out about mister Hanson and h A'm procreating. That's a weird way to say it. Yeah, he's having a kid definitely. I don't know why that worked. It was his last episode because he's becoming a dad, and I'm really yeah, yeah, that's fun to hear about. I said that like a like a Disney villain. No. I love Ben. I know he's listening because this is a

podcast, so he listens to it. I just he's one of the most past names people I've ever met, and I can't wait to see his thought, the way his brain wraps around being a father and things like that. I genuinely I wish him the best. I'm sure it's going to be a learning process with a lot of joys and struggles and stuff like that. And yeah, I look forward to He just seems like the most interesting person in

the world to me to have a kid. He's interesting, for sure, but he's also just unbelievably sweet and so I am excited for his journey into fatherdom and I appreciated being on the show. So that was Trivia Tower, and it's a very funny episode on YouTube. So if you're interested in that, I only gave away a couple of the answers. If you watch it, you can essentially try and guess before chat solves it for you, and

you'll be amazed at how quick Chat is. Like his audience is nuts, Like I know exactly what that game is, that obscure game from like nineteen eighty two. It's ridiculous, very very good. I'm always very surprising how quickly they get it. And also Trip Trivia Tower is an awesome show. It's very funny. Problem I enjoyed it. Go watch min Max, Go be a patron for them. They're doing great stuff. Yeah, all right, those episode fifty five. We're only we're halfway to one hundred and ten

till till done. We always said we would only do one hundred, one hundred ten that we're out. Check the first episode. We said, one hundred and ten is the goal. Yeah, one hundred and ten. All right, thank you everybody for hanging out. We will see you on July fifth, look it forward to that. Why fifth is our next June fifth? Sorry, our next episode June fifth? Hell are you doing? What the what the shops he talking about? June fifth? We'll be back.

Thanks for hanging out. Twelve mics. He would absolutely by your neck and squeeze your eyeballs out of your skull. Yeah, I know. Two dozen Bye everybody, see your next episode. The