Catholics Losing Religion and Searching for Tradition

Today I'm gonna talk to you about an interesting phenomenon that pairs with something that I have been observing and thinking about lately. The phenomenon, Gen z returning to church. You've been hearing bits and pieces of that, but I have some additional thoughts about that, some some more recent research that's been done on that. And I'm gonna give you my thoughts about it, about and it's not just Gen Z, and they're not just returning back to Catholicism. It's about a religion thing, and it comes to bear on this thought.

Why are the young folks looking for Catholic traditionalism? Did you ever stop to think about that? Traditionalists will tell you they're flocking to the trad trad mass, the traditional Latin mass, because it's better. Is that really what it is? But I want to be clear right at the top.

This is not going to be critical of traditionalism or the traditional Latin mass. If anything, it's going to come off as being supportive of traditionalism and the traditional Latin mass. But really, it's not. I mean, it's not for or against. It's an observation. Okay? It's some observations that I wanna share with you. What are we lacking today? What's missing that people in general are searching for and flocking to? That's what we're gonna be talking about.

Not just Catholicism. I mean, it it is I'm specifically talking about Catholicism, but it's not just traditionalism. What's lacking in the modern church culture, and why are people finding it, not just in traditionalism, but in a religion that they form for themselves? A religion that they form for themselves, independent of Catholicism. We're gonna be talking about that today.

I'm also going to be and I'm not gonna spend a lot of time on this. I'm gonna talk to you about I wouldn't say it's a new direction for Fire Branded. It is not a new direction. Maybe a development shift in how I do things a little bit. I'm gonna do that at the bottom of the show because the only ones who are gonna be interested in that are the people who actually like what I'm doing.

The people who are already, you know, looking for the next episode, looking for the next live. Those are the people who are gonna be most interested in that. It's only gonna take five minutes to get into it, but I'm gonna do that at the end of the show. Okay? Some updates on how I'm gonna be doing things.

It's not a radical shift, but it's it's it's a course shift enough that I wanted to share some details about it with you. Okay? This month's senior Rosetti thing is a little bit shocking to me. If you don't know anything about that, you've been living under Iraq, or you've been living in Iraq, and you should go to the forge.fm or firebranded.fm for a podcast. Or I guess you'll find it also here on on YouTube, if you're seeing this on YouTube.

Also, wrote an article about it @theforge.fm, Monsignor Rossetti being removed as chief exorcist of the archdiocese of Washington DC. The more I think about this, the more the more confusing, the more perplexing it is that he was removed as as the chief exorcist. It's just so stupid to me because, first of all, it's a really weak reason to, I guess, demote the priest. It's not really a demotion, but technic but, know, in way you can think of it that way. You know, it's a stupid reason, and the reason was undermining the very precise theology, the teaching of the church on the nature of angels.

I mean, that is such a stretch. First of all, let's pretend it's not a stretch. Let's pretend that that's the truth. That is such a dumb reason to demote Monsignor Rossetti. I mean, super super dumb. Also, it's such a stretch of a reason. This signals to me that that's not the real reason. It also signals that maybe there wasn't a real reason, and he just wasn't liked. And that's not saying that he was unlikable. I'm just or or I mean, really, don't know.

Right? We don't work with him. But very strange. It's interesting that there is no one that I've encountered. Obviously, I'm one person. I do get around a lot, but I'm just one person. But there is no one I've encountered who's been happy about this, supportive of it, or neutral. Even no one's even been neutral on it. Everyone is, like, shocked and confused. Like, what the hell is that?

Even people who generally don't care about that sort of thing are, what the hell is that? Very strange. If you haven't already, go to the forge.fm. I wrote an article, basically going through the details of what was being reported, and then I give my own analysis of what I think is really the score. I, go through why his comments were totally in line with Catholic teaching and Catholic church thought on the nature of angels and demons.

And there's also a podcast there. You you'll be it's very recent, so you'll find it no matter where you're finding this podcast. YouTube, firebranded.fm, theforge.fm, Apple, Spotify. Wherever you're finding it, you're going to find that episode. Very, very easy to find the episode that I did going a little bit deeper in my reaction to that.

So the and finally, the other thing that I find amusing is, and and very interesting, I'm seeing a lot of comments everywhere that I'm present on social media, various networks, and so on. Everyone is saying the same thing. What about father James Martin? What about father James Martin? Because he's constantly undermining church teaching, which I agree.

I agree. What about James Martin? Here's my response to that. And I've been telling people I'm gonna say a few words about that at the next podcast, so here I am. Or what about other exorcists? Here's the thing. What's distinctive about Monsignor Steven Rossetti is he's within the diocesan ecosystem. An exorcist like father James Martin I'm sorry. God forbid. An exorcist like father Chad Ripiger, Ripiger, however you pronounce his name, he's in a religious order.

Forget about the fact that he's in a conservative religious order, which is meaningful. He's in a religious order. He's technically outside of the diocesan ecosystem. The diocesan ecosystem usually is a little bit more it's hard to characterize. I'll just say plainly

I followed father James Martin on socials for a while. I even read a little bit of his book, but his book was just not not my thing. I would not call father James Martin a heretic. I I really truly wouldn't. This is not me being safe.

This is me being truthful with you. But my personal opinion, and it's a very well informed opinion, he does play fast and loose with church teaching. For a while I thought, well, he's just doing that to get his foot in the door, to be more welcoming, to get to to build engagement and a relationship and dialogue. But the longer I followed him, the less convinced I was of that. My opinion, he it's my opinion.

Based on my observation, he intentionally undermines or tries to skirt Catholic teaching. The same freedom that we see in independent organizations, which give us folks like father Chad Ripager, or say, pints with Aquinas. I know that's not a religious order, but but Matt Fratt is independent. Right? The same freedoms we see inherent in an independent, we'll call it system, free of a diocesan ecosystem, can give us very good orthodox content, or it can give us heterodox content.

You understand? Even though James Martin is a Jesuit, that's that's independent. He himself is not independent, but what I'm saying is his brand comes from an independent ecosystem, and that makes all the difference. That is also why TJ Haynes of Fiat Media, Fire Branded, is a product of Fiat Media, that's my LLC. It's independent.

There are things that I can say here that a diocesan priest generally probably wouldn't say. But I know some diocesan priests who do. There's one in particular who comes to mind, very good priest. He's not a rebellious or anything, very good priest. But he frequently says things in homilies or in his broadcasts that I'm surprised he goes there.

And despite that, he has a very good relationship with his bishop. So you do find it. But generally, independent folks like TJ Haynes of Fiat Media, host of the Fire Branded Podcast, fatheroftheforge.fm, Independent folks usually do have a little bit more freedom. Okay? Sometimes that's usually it's a good thing, sometimes it is not. FatherJamesMartin. Keep that in mind. Keep that in your back pocket, because I may go back to that later. Okay. Let's get in on the topic here.

We're talking about young people returning to religion. Okay? This is preliminary research that I was doing for an article, and I thought, you know, based on this was a thought that I was having even up to this morning, okay, while I was at Mass. I can't I can't get this stuff out of my head even when I'm at Mass. God help me, God help me.

But I was thinking about this at Mass. Basically this. I understand why people go for traditionalism. I really do. And the more I think about it, I've always understood it, but the more I've been thinking about it lately, the more understanding I am about it.

I would still caution against it, but we're not gonna talk about that today. And I was thinking about this, about why people go to traditionalism and so on. And then as I was formatting this research for an article, I thought, this ties into my thoughts on traditionalism. Let me talk about that. That preamble is my way of telling you these notes are a little disorganized.

Because they weren't meant for a podcast, I was in the middle of structuring my research and putting the researched bits in order, and then I was gonna do an outline, and then I was gonna write it. Okay. So that's what you're getting. You're getting the top of the funnel. Okay.

I haven't even gotten the outline yet because in the middle of it I thought this is really a podcast segment. Okay. Let's get into it now. There are signs of increased religiosity among some segments of young adults. But it is complex, folks.

Let's start there. It's it's complex. Recent research and polling in The United States suggests that young men 18 29 have shown considerable increase in the rate of religiosity, saying that religion is very important to them. Now folks, that is up from, I think, twenty eight percent, something like that, at forty two percent. So it's at forty two percent, up from twenty eight percent in just the past couple of years.

It's pretty remarkable. That's based on a Gallup Gallup research. So it's significant reversal. You've been hearing a lot about Gen Z returning to church, and they are, but I would just caution you, and I wrote a really extensive article on this analyzing the research data at fire@theforge.fm. While the news is good, I wouldn't say numbers of youth in Catholic churches are exploding.

What I will say is that the numbers are stabilized, and they're starting to tick up a little bit. Across religions, Catholicism appears to be seeing the most gains. Okay? Which is interesting. But the broader picture still shows a decline or just bear stabilization.

Long term trends continue to show younger generations overall are less religious than older ones, but get this, in terms of their affiliation, their prayer life, stuff like that, frequency in which they attend service, which for Catholics that's mass. So in general, they're returning to religion, but they're doing it differently from how their parents and grandparents did. They're not all returning to tradition whatever the traditionalism is, whether it's fundamental Protestantism or traditional Catholicism. They aren't all going there. Many of them are reporting themselves as religious, and religion is very important to me, but they're not necessarily diving back into the orthodox practice of their religion, namely a prayer life, attending mass, or church service on Sundays, and so on.

There's a little video here I'm gonna play for you. It's a news report from ABC News, some local affiliate. I don't remember who. Let me play this. Hopefully, the audio works.

You're feeling the love of Jesus because you're excited, and pastor Bob is swinging on a rope, and he's flying, And you're just moved by the music, and you're moved by the excitement. This child went to a church service from the prod with the Protestants, and she got a healthy dose of anti Catholic propaganda and a healthy dose of of sensationalism and spectacle. Okay? I'm sure she felt seen in sincere ways. I'm sure that she felt something that was real.

I'm also confident that she felt something that was just make believe and seemed real. This is a very common story that we're hearing. Young Catholics who break away from the faith and they go into religious life in the secular world, because secularism is a religion. So they go into religious life in the secular world, and they find it lacking. They find it empty.

They find that they're coming away from that with less than what they had coming going into it. Now they regroup and they redouble their efforts to find God wherever he may be found. Right? So they start looking, generally, it's gonna go be in one or two directions. They're going back to a familiar path and reassessing. Let's just say Catholicism. Okay? The faith of their parents and grandparents, whatever. That's one path. And then they reassess.

Is this the path for me? Let me start going back to mass again. Let me see how that fits. That's one path. The other path is a rejection of the faith of their upbringing.

A rejection of the faith of their formation for whatever reason, because they're still rebellious, or because they're suspicious of it, or they've observed things that they didn't like in it, whatever. So they go to the next best thing. Protestantism, or an evangelical faith, or something that appeals to what they want out of secular life, but isn't secularism, which is basically fast and loose with doctrine. It's all about feel good and and community, which, you know, community is important. But community, which is important, it is a characteristic of the Christian faith, community can sometimes be a poison, right, that's that's in that sweet drink, let's just say orange juice.

It's a poison in there. And the I'm sorry. Community is the sweet drink. Sorry. Community is the sweet drink that makes you forget that there's poison in there, or makes you just not detect that there's poison in there. Doctrinal doctrinal drift, or or philosophies or ideas that are contrary to what we find in scripture. Stuff like that. Okay? So this is a story that we're hearing a lot of. There are also youth who are making it up as they go.

Many, many, many youth are leaving permanently the Catholic faith, and they are becoming Buddhist. Are you familiar with this? Are you aware of this? Buddhism is on the rise. You know what else on the rise? Paganism. Neo Paganism. Young people exploring things like Wicca and even witchcraft. On rare occasion, you'll have a young person who goes into Islam, something like that, but that's really the minority. But it's interesting too.

The ones who are going into Islam, what are they searching for? They're searching for a religion with backbone because the religion of, you know, free thought, so called free thought secularism, has no backbone. And they're looking for backbone. Put that one in your pocket because I am going back to that in a second. Okay?

So this is what we're finding throughout the Christian world. And the people who wind up back in religion, they don't always wind up back into into Catholicism, even if that's where they started. Okay. Let's talk about engagement patterns. Research from religious sociologists and demographic studies finds that younger generations usually engage in different ways, less with traditional indicators and more with alternative forms of spirituality or community.

So this is not just TJ Haynes saying this. Researchers are saying this as well. Folks in a world where people are made to feel more isolated, they're going to really thirst for community. They're going to look for it, and when they find it, they're going to hold on to it. And once that happens, it's hard to pull them away from it.

If they find community in some really, really radicalized Protestant faith, I mean, like something really radicalized, a denomination that started in the February or something like that, It's hard to pull them away from that because they feel very strongly that they've found what they've been looking for. Classically, historically, traditionally, it has always been harder to correct someone who is errant than it is to convert someone with no faith at all. It's easier to make a Catholic out of an atheist. It's easier to make a Christian out of a pagan than it is to bring a Christian who airs back into the center, back into the fold. And listen, I read that when I first read that, I don't know, it was in the nineties at some point when I first read that.

Was a book on on church history. That's where I first got into patristics, where that really first intrigued me, you know, the church fathers and this and that. And one of the things that I read was that it was far easier to convert a non believer than to correct a heretic, or someone who's, like, grossly errant. Far easier. Fast forward, all of these years of experience and evangelization under my belt, I have also found that to be true.

It is extraordinarily difficult to correct someone who has lost their course than it is to bring in a non believer, or a pagan, or a secularist, whatever, someone who's agnostic. Very, different experience. That's what we have going in. On the other hand, we also have many young people, and I wanna say this first. Let me finish with thought.

Many young people who are finding looking for and finding Catholic traditionalism. I wanna say this to some of the traditionalists who may be watching. It's a mistake to say, traditionalism is good. Look at all the conservatives we have here. Tradition and I'm gonna explain why.

It's a mistake to say traditionalism is superior because the young people are searching for it. That's a mistake because the TLM communities are a concentration of a singular type of Catholic. The ordinary form communities, the ordinary old Catholic parishes, gets everybody. Absolutely everybody. People fall into the ordinary form mass because it's just it's the ordinary form.

It's ordinary. It's automatic. People just fall into it. If you if you want to go to mass, that's generally the one you're gonna go to 99% of the time. On the contrary, people search for the TLM. Okay? That's an intentional choice. I guess all choices are intentional. That's an intentional move, okay, to go to the TLM. So you're always going to find a concentration of that type of Catholic.

To say therefore to say for instance the traditional Latin mass is better, look, everybody's receiving communion on the tongue or on their knees or both, That doesn't count because the people who are going there are doing so intentionally. Okay? For for instance, if I were to start attending a TLM, I am already receiving on my knees. I've been doing that for twenty five years, receiving on my knees. Right?

That doesn't mean I'm going there because it's superior, it just means I do that, and I'm going there, to the traditional Latin Mass. Okay? But, it is true, and in some and some studies have found this, that there are some young people, and and and I wanna say this also, because the TLM has a concentration of a type, it's gonna be easy to find that type because that's the concentration. Okay? People are always saying look at all the young people at Mads, this and that.

If I had time, I would do this research and get actual data in front of me, but I don't have this time. But I'm pretty confident this is true based on research that I have seen here and there. My suspicion is we actually get more young people in the ordinary form mass. But it's hard than they do in the TLM. But it's harder to spot because it's not a concentration of them.

It's not a concentration. For instance, in a local parish where you have, say, four masses, you'll have young people across those four masses that outnumber the one TLM mass going on down the road. Whatever. Do you understand? It's a concentration.

So to say we have all of the good families, we have all of the good youth, that is not accurate. It's really not accurate. Even if I were to grant that, it's only accurate because you have a concentration of that type of Catholic there. Whereas in the ordinary form mass communities, we have everybody. Okay?

Alright. Sometimes I get on a tear here and I get out of breath, so you have to pardon me as I silence the microphone once in a while to get a good healthy hearty breath of fresh air. Okay. But that having been said, you do find a concentration you do find people who go from nothing to the TLM. Why is that?

That's going to take us into phase two. What are they searching for? What are they finding? Why is that good? And why does the rest of the church need to take the hint? We'll get to that into phase two. That brings us to the end of phase one. Let's go. Let's get into phase two, darling. Phase two. Why are people looking for traditionalism? Let's talk about it. Traditionalism on the rise, baby. Lots of people going into traditionalism. The traditional Latin mass is getting very much more popular.

I remember when I was rolling with the SETIs, I was a big big component of the traditional Latin mass. Today, not so much, but the reason I bring it up is that used to be a rare find, a traditional Latin mass. Now, it's not not quite so rare. Right? Traditionalism is on the rise. People are seeking for it. Seeking and looking for it. Let's talk about why. What's going on in traditionalism? And what's the the hint that the church should start to take?

First, let me open this segment this way. I very strongly advise you to stay away from traditionalism. Trads, please don't be insulted, because I say this with love for you. Okay? And I know many people have good intentions for getting into traditionalism.

I I get that. But I can tell you from experience, lots and lots and lots and lots lots lots of people don't. You know, it's funny, I was talking to a priest friend of mine, a friend from way back. It's funny because he actually helped me out of sedevacantism. He helped me through a tragedy or two, a spiritual tragedy or two.

And he he would identify himself as a traditionalist to this day. When I tell him some of the things that I have that I know about traditionalism, he's very shocked to hear it. He traditionalists aren't like that. Father, they absolutely are. I know this.

I minister to these folks. Well, I minister to them too, but they hide that from you. You're another traditionalist, so they're not going to show their real selves to you. That only comes out when those pressure points are pushed, and you don't push them because you don't need to. As an evangelizer, there are some things that I have to do.

Right? I can never be a traditionalist, because as an evangelizer, I have a duty to cast a wide and broad net. I can never give the appearance of taking sides, ever. I do not have that right. I have to speak with the church's voice. I do not have a right to speak with T. J. Haynes' voice. You understand. I obviously do speak with my voice.

I have my own take and spin on things, of course. But if the church says, for instance, if the church says receiving communion in the hand is not wrong, I do not have the freedom to say, yes, it is. I don't have that freedom as an evangelizer. I have to speak with the church's voice. Okay?

So, as an evangelizer, I have to take a neutral, all inclusive, and as much as possible, pure position on everything. I do not hide my biases. You all know me. Right? But I have as much as possible, I have to take a a balanced and pure position on everything. That is my duty. Right? If I'm going to be an evangelizer, that is my duty. I always have to give the church the benefit of the doubt. I always have to try to anyway, you get the idea.

So he doesn't see the things that I see, and I think most traditionalists don't see the things that I see. And what I see is many, many, many traditionalists are really altar Catholics. They're in a subculture of the Catholic faith. And this is why I tell people just stay away from it, because it could lead you into big trouble spiritually, ecclesially, I guess you might say. For instance, the SSPX.

Or another example I I can throw out there, Archbishop Vigano or Vigano, however you pronounce that name. Another example who's who's on the up and up and all over my radar is Bishop Athanasius Snyder. Totally on my radar. I'm starting to suspect that if the SSPX get excommunicated, he is going to apostatize, as Vigano did. That's my suspicion.

I'm I'm I'm like fifty fifty on it. I'm not like real real confident, but that's my suspicion. You wind up in you wind up on a slippery slope. I know that there are Catholics who go to traditionalism for good and legitimate and valid reasons. It's not to diminish the church or diminish the mass.

It's just it's the mass that they prefer for honest, sincere reasons. Got it. And and I believe it. I would still recommend you not do that, but your mileage may vary. But, why are people going to traditionalism?

Why is that becoming more and more popular? I've said this for a while. The main thing is the TLM and the communities that surround it or associate with it is very clear signaling. Whereas in the prop I wouldn't say proper church, but in the ordinary church, the signaling is often not clear. It's a little bit confusing, a little bit contradictory, but the signal the signaling in the TLM is very clear, and people need that.

Some more than others. I don't really need that, but I'll tell you, I would sure like it. The pope, whether it's Leo or Francis, any of them, or a cardinal or a bishop or a parish priest can say pretty much anything as long as it's orthodox, and I'll get it. Some people need that clear signaling more than others. But I think most ordinary Catholics pretty much need it.

And and they often often, not always, but often don't find it in the proper, so called proper Catholic church. The signaling is clear in traditionalism. It's not so clear in the ordinary Catholic church, and people need that, and that's legitimate. Also, reason is culture. People are looking for culture.

Culture, you've heard me say this a million times, culture is important. Culture is a teacher. Culture builds identity. Identity tells us who we are, where we're going, where we're meant to be. You take away culture, you starve identity. You starve identity, you wind up with people with identity crisis. People with identity crisis attempt to make it up on their own. And 99% of the time, they will fail. They will fail. So people are going to the traditionalism because it is loaded with culture.

You don't have to look too hard. It is all over the place in traditionalism. But let's talk about some specific things that people are going to traditionalism for, which I cannot fault them no matter what. I just cannot fault them. Let's do it from this platform.

Some things that really irritate me in the ordinary form mass. First of all folks, I know some traditionalists, I don't know if this is like intrinsic to all traditionalism or or what, But every traditionalist I have known, and it's a lot of them, it's an awful lot of them, a hell of a lot of them, have taken issue with the time of peace at Mass. Folks, peace time, the time of peace at Mass, was traditionally in the early liturgies. But I think it was done at the beginning of Mass. I think it was done at the beginning but it was in the early liturgies.

Let me pause just a second. It was in the early liturgies. It's very Catholic. I understand a lot of traditionalists take issue with that, but it's just the truth. It's very Catholic.

Okay? But something that irritates me and that irritates traditionalists, and I really can't blame them, is people feel like they have to say peace be with you to everybody in the freaking church. Peace be with you. Peace be with you. Left, to the right, behind me, across the field over there at the back of the pews. Peace be with you. Hey. Oh. Hey. Peace be with you.

It's just a little ridiculous. The peace the sign of peace is symbolic. Okay? By saying peace be with you to a couple of people, you are saying it to everybody. You don't have to wave and shake hands with everybody. Another thing that irritates me is this. Can we please stop doing this at mass? Peace be with you. Peace be with you. Peace be with you. Hey, over there. Peace be with you. Can we please stop doing that? Are we hippies? Please stop holding up the peace sign.

It's very hippie, it's very pagan, I'm not gonna get into it, but yes, it is very pagan, And it's very stupid. Please stop doing it. If you, for instance, if you wanna say peace be with you to someone to your left or right, but you don't wanna shake their hand, what I do, you do what you want. What I do is I just elevate my hand and say peace be with you, and I touch my heart. Peace be with you.

And that's it. When I was young, grrr, because I'm still young, when I was younger, we were taught, you say peace be with you to the person on your left, the person on your right, and that's it. Not to the person behind, in front, across shake hands with the person on the left, person on the right, say peace be with you to each of them, and that's it. That's how we were taught. But this whole peacetime bonanza really gets under my skin.

It's like, folks, get on with it. Okay. Peace be with you. Okay. Alright. Can we now move forward? I'm a little annoyed every time, you know, the Anus Dei starts and people are still piecing. Anus Dei. Oh my god. That irritates me.

Another thing that irritates me about the Ordinary Four Mass, and I mean no disrespect to those of you who are involved in this, but Eucharistic ministers, I'm I'm sorry. You will never ever ever ever convince me that Eucharistic ministers make any sense. When I was a little boy, the masses were packed. Okay? One parish that we went to had three masses, another one, which was my home parish, had four.

Every mass you went to was packed. And these are old school Brooklyn parishes. They're like cathedrals. Okay? Packed. Packed. Home parish, four masses, packed. Interestingly, I was at that my home parish where I grew up, I was there, I don't know, six, seven years ago? At I think it was like the tenth it was at the mass that was usually the most populated. And there was like nobody there.

I couldn't believe my eyes. I just could not believe my eyes. I mean, fifty, sixty people. I I couldn't believe it. That mass used to be packed front to back. If you got there on time hell, if you got there even a couple of minutes early, you were standing up because there were no seats left. Huge church too. Okay? So with all these people at mass, do you know what happened at communion time? The celebrant would administer communion and the whatever other priest was assigned there.

Right? So you have a pastor and a parochial vicar. The parochial vicar would come out and or the other the other priest, because maybe the celebrant was the parochial vicar. The other priest would come out and you'd have two priests administering holy communion. That's it. That's it. And you could this was after Vatican too, so they could have used Eucharistic ministers. All of these packed masses, you never ever saw a Eucharistic minister. And you know what? This might surprise you.

Nobody died. Nobody died of of of boredom or of impatience. Nobody died from there being only two priests to give out communion. Nobody died. It might shock you, but nobody died. So you will never except maybe at a Vatican Mass or something. Okay. Alright. Because then you got thousands of people, whatever. Okay.

Eucharistic ministers. Fine. Beyond that, you will never convince me that Eucharistic ministers are important. With all due respect to those of you who may be Eucharistic ministers, this is not a criticism of you. There there can be a legitimate use for Eucharistic ministers in some circumstances.

What I'm saying is they are massively overused. And my personal feeling is, what are we saying about the Eucharist when it starts to look a little bit like a circus act? Eucharistic ministers are great. I mean, I don't go to don't go to communion to a Eucharistic minister because I receive on the knees and on my tongue, and I really don't want no drama. I don't wanna get into an argument with a Eucharistic minister who won't give me communion because I'm kneeling down.

Or a Eucharistic minister who because there was a time I always received on the tongue, but there was a time when I wasn't kneeling, I hadn't gotten there yet, and then I was kneeling, and anyway. So I remember one time, this was when I was still living in my home parish where I grew up, I went up to a Eucharistic minister, it was a big mass, I think it was like like a feast day or something, like Immaculate Conception, because I remember it was nighttime. And I was at mass and it was packed, so it had to have been a feast day. Go up to the Eucharistic minister, I'm standing up receiving on my tongue. I'm standing there with my tongue out, and the Eucharistic minister is still holding the host down at my hands, which are folded at my hips.

It's very obvious I'm receiving on my tongue. I don't need this freaking drama. Especially now, over the past twenty five years, receiving on my knees and on my tongue, I do not need the drama. So I do whatever I can do without disrupting the mass or the flow of things. I try very hard to do whatever I can do, but I'm receiving from the priest.

I'm going to pre calculate You don't have to. I'm just saying this is what I do. The point is Let me not get into all that. The point is, Eucharistic ministers are overused. I don't like them. God bless you if you're a Eucharistic minister. They can be useful. They can be important in some circumstances, but they are overused. That irritates me. The holding hands out during the hour father, why are we doing that?

And why isn't anyone correcting anybody? There is nothing in the in the general instruction of the Roman missile that says the people in the pews cannot elevate their hands. There isn't anything that says they have to fold their hands either. But what we do have is the faithful should not be mimicking the actions proper to the celebrant. This is an action proper to the celebrant.

What we also have is that deacons during the Our Father should fold their hands. Well, my friends, if deacons have to fold their hands, why do the faithful think they don't have to fold their hands? That they can hold their hands out like this and say, I want And then it gets really ridiculous because it doesn't just stop at orance. It becomes like, I don't know, like a Mayan ritual where people are their hands outstretched looking up at the ceiling and and it becomes performative. That irritates me.

Peace be with you and with your spirit. Why are we throwing peace at the priest? The peace of the Lord be with you and with your spirit. Why are we doing that? I mean, the only thing missing is a clap and a spin.

Peace be with you and with your spirit. That's the only thing missing is a clap and a spin. There are things in the Novus Orto Mass that in my opinion are objectively ridiculous. But we have to let them continue, because to correct First of all, the faithful are gonna do whatever the faithful want to do. You can have the pastor, you can have a bishop say, please don't extend your hands during the hour father, and here is why.

There's many of them, most of them maybe, will still extend their hands during the hour father. What will you have achieved? You will have pissed off a lot of people in the parish. Maybe that's a good thing, some of you are thinking. But maybe it's not.

Right? Same thing with various other things that are irritating. The the reason why they're allowed to continue is because there's no authority for making them stop. I would love to force everybody, at least first communicants, right, when they're taught to receive communion, I would love to say you can only receive on the tongue. But you can't, because the church doesn't say that, And so you cannot say that.

I make my children receive on the tongue. But you see what I'm saying? There's no authority to say that. Really, that's that authority does exist doesn't exist in the TLM either. Because the TLM is still the Catholic church.

But again, people of a certain type are choosing to attend the TLM. Usually, they attend they receive communion on their tongue anyway. Or if you attend a TLM parish, which I have I have had this, where a parish require they will give you communion in your hands, but it's discouraged. And there's a kneeler there, and you pretty much have to kneel and receive on your tongue, which I was already doing so I didn't care about that. But I thought it was interesting where they they I wouldn't say they force it, but it's very very very strongly encouraged.

I kinda dig that. But the point is, most of the people going there are already preconfigured for that. In an ordinary Catholic parish, that is hard to press. It's very hard to press. There are a few other things that irritate me at at the Novus Ordo, the Ordinary Form Mass, but there are things that irritate me at the traditional Latin Mass too.

Are there some some saints to be in the TLM communities? I'm I'm sure. But I'll tell you, I've met many saints to be in the Novo Zorto, in the Ordinary Form Mass. So why do people seek them out? Somebody in the chat room earlier, I think it might have been Oblade who said it, who was talking about authenticity.

We are wired to look for authenticity. And they seek it out in the TLM, and because of the clear signaling and the richness of the culture there, they find it. They find it so richly that they don't realize that the negatives of separating themselves from the rest of the church are actually destructive. Highly, highly destructive. I say it from experience.

Highly destructive. They don't realize it because what they're getting, sort of, they feel cancels it out, or they don't even detect it because they're overwhelmed by the objective goods that you will find at a TLM. Now, you can find culture at a Novus Ordo mass, some more than others. But I gotta tell you, even at a good parish, it's spread a little bit thin. I'm I know some very good parishes with very old school they're not old priests, but they are old school priests.

Anywhere they can lace or weave in traditional things, like a little chant here and there, some incense here and there, stuff like that, traditional things. Any opportunity where they can do that, they do it in the liturgy. But it's still spread the culture is still spread pretty thin. The signaling is excellent in these parishes that I have in mind. The celebration of the mass is does not look like it's being phoned in.

The celebrants look they look like they take it seriously. The consecration is done beautifully. All of that. You would never ever if you're a traditionalist, you would never take issue with how those those guys' masses are being celebrated. I don't mean like a because they're illicit, I mean because they're they're done extraordinarily well.

The signaling in the homily, very very good, but still the culture there can be a little bit thin. A little bit thin. It's present. It's unmistakably present, but even there it can be a little bit thin. I think the church could learn a few lessons from Eastern Orthodoxy and from traditionalism.

It's not my opinion, it's not enough that we say, for instance, if you've ever been to a Novus Ordo Mass strictly in of the design of Vatican II, many of you, if you were to go there, you would think you're looking at a TLM. But it is not. It's the Novus Ordo. But it's in you know, they they do the stuff in Latin, it's Ad Orientum, it's that super long Eucharistic prayer, which I'm okay with that it's long, I like that Eucharistic prayer. You, if you don't know the differences between the various forms of liturgy, you would think you're looking at a TLM, but it's the Novus Ordo.

Okay? It's not enough, in my opinion, to say, well, the Novus Ordo Mass can be loaded with culture, but we leave that option to the pastors and to the celebrants and to national conferences of bishops, I don't think that's good enough. It's true, but I don't think that's good enough. Because most conferences or bishops or celebrants, they're going to go to lowest common denominator. What is the simplest to execute?

What is the easiest to maintain? That's not bad. That's actually good leadership. Because the Roman right is supposed to be simple. Okay? That's something characteristic of the Roman right, is the simplicity. It's it's not laziness. That's just a characteristic of the Roman right. So what's gonna be simple, clean, beautiful, easy to repeat? Okay?

If if you have in one region, if you have, let's say, five parishes, and each of them has two priests, what can we do that no matter which of those parishes you go to, no matter which mass amongst those parishes, no matter which celebrant, the liturgy will look identical? Every week, forever. That's why you have the Novus order that we have. Okay. I still feel nourished by the by by the mass.

I don't need all this culture and signaling. I don't need it. But a lot of people do. I don't think it's enough to say, well, it can be richer in culture. I don't think it's enough to say that.

I think we have to start, by requirement, build that back or not build it back into the liturgy, because it's technically still built into the liturgy. I think we have to start pushing to bring these optional things back into the mass as a norm, instead of an option. Because when you put together all of these things, all these options that can be simple, and welcoming, inviting, all this stuff, and and traditionally, I have to tell you, a lot of you think that the Novus Ordo was a Protestantized Mass. And I I'm saying this friendly. I'm not saying this this is just how I talk.

Okay? This is not me being angry at you. But when you say it's a Protestantized Mass, I want you to know it's a very stupid thing to say. Because it is in no way a protestantized mass. If you doubt me, ask the protestants what they think of the mass.

They're horrified by what they see. But, I kinda lost my train of thought there. But, the point I'm trying to make is, it's not enough to just because when you put all of these options together, where they all become the simpler option, the option that could be executed regularly, reliably, what you have is too much simplicity. Now, imagine you're a young person seeing all this simplicity, and it looks, in some ways, only marginally different from what they see in the world. If you know what you're looking at, it looks very different from what you're seeing in the world.

But imagine young people growing up with that, where it only looks marginally different from what they're seeing in the world. Now take them to a TLM. Which one looks like it stands in defiance against the rest of the world? More often than not, it won't be the Novus Ordo. Not in its current configuration.

I say that as someone who exclusively attends a Novus Ordo, if there were a TLM parish right next door, I wouldn't go to Mass there unless that was the more convenient Mass to go to on that Sunday. Not I'm not anti TLM, but I real I really don't need it. And in a lot of ways, I the TLMs I've attended, I didn't prefer them. I I really didn't. So I'm not anti Novazorto, obviously.

And this is not absolutizing the diagnosis. What I'm saying is, some things that you hear from traditionalists are overblown, but they are based on a truth. And the truth is, I think the church, I think the Catholic experience needs to be welcoming, needs to be open to all because it always has been. And so it should it should appear that way. But it really has to look like it stands in defiance against the secular experience.

It really and listen, I just think that's where people are. That people are so far from truth, they need the signaling to be that strong, they need the culture to be that rich. Okay? And I think people need the mass to look like this is something otherworldly. I do not need that.

I really don't need that. But I'm not every other Catholic. And I think a lot of Catholics, especially younger Catholics, really, really need to see that. In closing to that point, I'll give this one analogy. There are some this is a new thing that I'm seeing everywhere.

Churches are replacing their old expensive to run light bulbs with LED lights. And the LED lights are daylight balanced. You would call them white, right, instead of amber. So now, with these old churches filled with these daylight balanced LED lights, well, they're cheaper to run, but now the church just looks like a cafeteria with holy things in it. It looks like total shit.

It does not look somber. It does not look it doesn't doesn't look like it's a place filled with whole with it doesn't look like a holy space that way. First, because the churches weren't designed to be lit like that, and second, because daylight balanced light, basically it activates the mind. It's physiological. It activates the mind.

Right? The eyes see that color of light and it tells the brain, it's daytime, it's time to be awake and alert. Whereas amber lighting, the traditional color of lights and lamps that we always had and the you know, the color of the lighting that you used to see in churches, or candlelight is amber lighting. That has an effect on the mind that tells it to relax, ease down, focus. It tends to create, it tends to produce an interior atmosphere of interior reverence, reflection, stillness.

I'm not saying it's gonna turn it on and off interiorly with the change of a light bulb, but it does this is this is science. This is not theology, it's not flow this is science. Okay? Amber lighting has that effect on the human brain. It tells the brain, shhh.

So not only is all this damn LED lighting freaking ugly, it's just ugly. Now churches look like cafeterias with religious things in it. Look, they look like gymnasium with holy things in it. Ugly. Not only is it objectively ugly, it's actually producing an effect contrary to the one we want produced for someone to be able to receive what's in the mass.

But they're cheaper to run. Folks, let's get serious. If the lights are expensive to run, take up another collection. You'll be okay. I offer that analogy for this.

Okay? Just as your lighting sets the atmosphere for an interior quiet, The way the Catholic experience is configured, supported, advanced, on display signals to the person where does this organization stand in the world. Is it incrementally different? Is it basically the secular world, but with holy things going on there? Or is it something that came down from heaven and planted its flag in the earth?

The mass that I grew up with was a Novus Ordo mass, but it looked like it planted it looked like it came down from heaven and planted its flag in the earth. Because the signaling even though it was exactly the Novus Ordo we have today, right, like this very day, the signaling was super strong. They were still doing even if they were saying English, they were chanting English. Okay? They were singing the words and the prayers.

There was incense, there was real candles, and so on. The signaling was very strong, the culture was very strong, and it was a Novosorto Mass. And that sucker looked like it came down from heaven and planted its flag in the earth. And I think that's what the mass ought to look like, not not because it makes it more reverent or more efficacious, but I think the faithful, the ordinary faithful really need that, especially the youth, they really need that. Not all of them do, but many of them do.

And I think without that, without that hook that people need, some people, what you're going to find is, they're going to march over to traditionalism. And traditionalism today is orthodox, but I'll I'll tell you, in my experience in in in in my life, to this day, I know a big personally know a big handful of sedevacantists. Not from my run-in with sedevacantism. You know how I know these sedevacantists? They used to be traditionalists.

About seven or eight of them. And one of them absolutely shocked me that he went more and more and more and more traditionalist, and today he's a sedevacantist. That is what traditionalism is ordered toward. Because traditionalism is an easy sell, because it's loaded with good things. But because it's loaded with good things, the devil is there also, moving people along.

This traditional mass isn't traditional enough. It should be more traditional. Now it's a little bit more traditional, but still not traditional enough. By the way, how crazy is Vatican II? I I don't even need to make this case, folks.

I already know this is true. And many of you, unless you're real stupid, many all of you know that this is true. How many traditionalists do you know in the public sphere who are now sedevocantists? Think real hard, I can I'm sure you can come up with at least three. You all know this to be true.

Somebody in the chat room just named one. I won't name that person's name on the air, because they don't deserve my airtime, but yes, Marek, that's one of the names I'm thinking of. And there are two others. Four. There are four other. There's total of four, so there are three others. Three others. Who all of you know. One of those three you may not realize is Eddie Vecontist. But it's not really a secret, but it's a quiet it's quietly said.

But anyway, so that's gonna oh, so that wraps up the show, but I do wanna talk to you about some adjustments in what I'm doing here at Fire Branded. Okay? That the only ones who are gonna give a damn about that are the people who like following my work. I wanted to do the show proper so that the people who are not familiar with me didn't have didn't have to listen to me yammering about that. So here's the situation.

Oh, mysterious. What's the situation, t? What are you about to tell us? It's real it's really not that heavy. So two things, and I'm gonna try and keep this, like, inside of five minutes. Okay? And then now my mind goes back to Ellis saying, I'm gonna keep this one short, the shirt is two sizes too big. First, let's talk about the broadcast. The broadcast is really weighing heavy on me. I enjoy doing them, but I don't like that they've become like the the live broadcasts are hard to do.

Okay? Every show opens with stress, you just don't see it. Alright? Even this one did everyone opens with stress. Something that isn't working right or But I do enjoy doing these these lives and being present with you and being present for you.

But I'm just not having fun doing the show, to be real straight with you. So what I'm thinking of doing is something like this. What I think I'm gonna do when I go live is I'm always gonna make that a Fire Brand brief. I'm gonna keep it brief, casual, interact a lot with the audience. And I'm gonna have a topic I'm gonna talk about. You've seen the Fire Brand briefs, not so brief, but you've seen them. There's always a topic. Right? Not super structured, but it's not random. Okay?

Or I might do a Q and A. I'll have, like, a topic I'm gonna talk about, and I'll make it a Q and A. And then whatever happens in the show happens. And then once a week or once every two weeks, I do a real episode of Fire Branded, but on demand. I record it, produce it, edit it, release it.

Okay? I'm also flirting with the idea of doing the first half of that, like doing us a regular or every week or every two weeks, coming on here doing a Fire Brand brief, similar to what I've been doing all this time, but doing something more frequently, audio only, released on my website, firebranded.fm. Okay? I'm pretty sure that's the direction I'm I'm going, because these these have really become kind of kind of a cross. I do enjoy doing them for some specific reasons, and I really hate doing them for some specific reasons.

So this is something that I'm going to do, is is kind of break it up. Okay? Do something a little bit more casual live, and a little bit more polished on demand. If you're not already doing so, sign up for free at firebranded.fm, and either one of those directions I go in, you're going to be notified about it. If I start doing regular show, but just release them on my website, firebranded.fm, and just do once a week or once every two weeks I do something kind of casual on a livestream, whatever the case, you're gonna know about it.

If I do something exclusively on the website, you're gonna know about it because you're going to be subscribed to the website. Okay? So this is not me pulling away from doing a show, it's just me pulling away from how I do it. Because a lot of you might not realize this, but Fire Branded is not just a broadcast, I also do articles. I also do articles on theforge.fm.

And all of this stuff is stuff that I have inside of me and want to express, but I have to find a way that I can do it more I have to find a way that I can do it where it's not killing me. Okay? So, what is this gonna change for you effectively? Probably very little. Worst case scenario, instead of seeing my fat ugly face once a week, you're gonna see it every two weeks. Worst case scenario. Okay? It'll be more casual, stuff like that. I don't think you guys care about that. Right?

Because because even a even a less casual show, you enjoy. Right? Did you notice I started the show without my opening music? Do you know why? I have a feeling it's annoying people. When I was looking at my analytics, noticed like a few seconds in, the numbers go and people leave. And I'm after a while, now I'm thinking, is it this? People don't like hearing this? That could be. So what I think but I don't care, man.

I wanna produce the show that I wanna produce. So what I think I'm gonna do is on the livestreams, like stuff that's bound for YouTube, I'm just gonna start silent. But on the stuff that I this is like this is the show I wanna produce. This is me in a digital file, and it's going on firebranded.fm. I'm gonna self host it.

That I'm gonna have my I'm gonna have the music in there because that's where people who are coming after my work. They're looking for my work and they're, you know, they're either down with the music at the top or they're tolerant of it because they enjoy the show anyway. This has been an episode of Fire Branded. Ladies and gentlemen, I wanna thank you all for joining me today. Those of catching me at theforge.fm.

Hello, Hello, James and Jan Donovan, or is it James and Jan Donovan? I'm just now getting out of here, folks. I'm so sorry about that. You're catching the show really at the end. Those of you who caught me today on Facebook, thank you very much for doing so. And, of course, my beautiful, lovely friends, YouTubers, I I like you so much. I want you to know you are contributing to my Catholic experience. You understand? And I thank you very much for it. God bless you, and God be with you all.

Bye bye.