Live Commentary on Brewers vs Braves NLDS Game 4 with Caleb Abney

Welcome back to finding the edge podcast. I'm Gary boy. Mmm, in today's episode in true, finding the edge fashion. We had a very emergent discussion with Caleb Abney where we did a live commentary on the Brewers Braves and I'll DS game which happened to be the game that the Braves ended up clinching.

It's starting to feel like a trend every time I have Caleb on and I'm about to release his episode that he is getting featured in. You know, some other podcast or there's an announcement so /. The trend it seems like this week as I'm about to release this episode with Caleb, he was just named head coach for Lancaster Bible College out in Pennsylvania. So big congrats to Caleb Abney.

If you guys want to see calebs offensive Style on full display, I highly recommend you guys follow Lancaster, Bible College and keep up with all the Eight things that he's going to be doing there and so big, congrats to Caleb. Caleb and I today had a great conversation watching the game and today's podcast felt a lot more like a conversation than an interview. So hopefully guys build that it's much more, much more natural conversation. Super excited to share this with you guys.

What I ended up doing is flipping what I thought would be most interesting for you guys are that conversation because there's there's a lot of dead space and some technical issues going on there so we clipped all that out. So that hopefully it's it stays really engaging for you guys. Also to we actually ended up doing a another livestream, me and Robert did of a World Series game. So if you guys want to check that out, it's definitely a lot

longer than this one. Part of the reason that this one ended up being so short, was that my camera ended up dying part way through it. So it will abruptly end. So just before Warren That if it doesn't have like a natural exit point but regardless if you're not following Caleb already make sure to follow him on Twitter and then make sure you're following Lancaster Bible College.

But yeah so make sure if you want to see the live stream that Robert and I did of the World Series game, make sure to check out our YouTube channel. We also have a few other previous episodes up there. We've started to do more video podcasts, obviously the audio will always be available. But if you want to see some visual parts and see our faces and all that good stuff with the World Series live stream, we actually did pull up some video and talk some base running.

So if you want to check that out, head over there. Also on our YouTube channel, I'll put up clips of our conversation. And so you can always refer to an eclipse that I put out on social media on our YouTube channel at all be there. So make sure to head over there, it subscribe, like, share all that, sort of good stuff. Without further Ado, our commentary on the Brewers Braves

in all DS game. Go for it too late John Smoltz

sure. I mean I mean in some ways though I there's some things that he says where I'm not completely into it but I understand what you mean there are, there are there are yes there are some things where I'm like, yeah, cool rock on. I can get behind that. There are some things he says that it's like, dude, you are not good for this game like like get with it just a little bit.

Stop being such an angry old man, a get off my lawn type of guy old man, screams at the clouds, it's just atrocious. He accent heat. You literally said this? It was yesterday, I think. Yeah. I think it was the Red Sox Rays game. Yeah. Because it was j.d. Martinez, a pitch that was in off the plate inside. It was not a strike was inside, it was very close to being a strike, but it was inside. He slices it to right field for a week, like short fly out and John Smoltz.

I mean, you know, he's mr. Go the other way. Hit Oppo, everything. Just like every other standard traditional old school baseball guy, like, hmm. He literally shouldn't even be trying to get a hit, unless it's but the opposite field and Like these words actually came out of his mouth, it's actually easier. Like that's actually the pitch that you want to try to go the other way on. It's easier to do it on that pitch. I'm like what? Excuse me.

It's easier to hit the ball to the opposite field on a pitch that's inside off the plate that that that's not even consistent with like baseball conventional wisdom.

No, I don't know what he was trying to get out there. He just really wanted to make his point and be right about opposite field hitting But driving not dude, how about the Giants man? Yep. That ball that Gavin. Lux hid to end. The game was 107 miles an hour. And it did not go out of the ballpark, the wind I guess was crazy Dodger Stadium last night that that was to end the game and it would have tied it if it

had gone out. Oh, dude, the, that's the thing that I really liked watching the Giants game and I didn't see that one. But the, I think it was the first game I was watching back to it and they had the wind like how the wind they had a graphic showing. How the wind was moving in the ballpark and I'm like, kids, like this is why I love the ecological approach and it's not like it's you know, nobody thought about it.

You know, without the ecological approach but it just it highlights one of the factors that the players are going to have to deal with. Yeah just to me screams like you got to be more adaptable dextrous because Well, in last night's game that ball would have gone out under normal circumstances. But do you have another way to be able to hit to still score runs? I mean I get it that you know the Giants have a good good

pitching staff too. So I'm not denigrating that but at the same point for the coaches that always harp on you know just hit it over the hit over the fielders, you know, like yeah I get it and it's true until you have the wind that you have to deal with. Yeah.

It's like blowing straight into. Yeah, so I think maybe in those moments like just lowering lowering your site slightly, maybe like, instead of having such high possible, launch angles that you're going for your hitting, maybe lower line drive, it just barely get over the infielders. So that, you know, and maybe that's your, like, that's your, that's your objective in that game because you don't want to get up in the wind too much where It's not able to carry as

much. But what's also interesting is in that game Evan Longoria, hit a hit a bot. Like the only run that was scored was his so somehow he was able to, but it's also where he hid it on the field. I think he pulled that one. Whereas, where did where did it actually wasn't? It was, it was a similar area, the field. It was a little more support Scofield, but Gavin, Gavin lux's was to, it was like to left

center field. And he's a left-handed hitter so he liked it was Oppo and Eva. Longoria's was kind of straightaway left field so they were similar areas of the field but you know maybe in that moment that Evan Evan Longoria hit his maybe the wind wasn't gusting quite as much and or maybe like there was like a big Gus that came up right? When Lux hid, his Balto left left center field.

So, You know, just the Dynamics of how that works and the timing of when you can hit balls, is interesting. I mean, that I don't feel like anybody should get that into the weeds of it, quite honestly. Yeah, when you're playing, but at some level, if you know, the conditions that you're in from, and they're fairly consistent, or they're consistent for that inning, you should, I think we should be working with hitters to make them adjustable and to your point.

I don't think it's a, you know, launch angle. Hard enough as it is but just shifting your intention to, you know, maybe hitting a line drive and trying to get more line drives over the infield, you know, or trying to work balls into the Gap. A little bit more on a lower angle which, which that's that's actually from like a coaching standpoint and a header development standpoint. That's where I start. Anyway, especially with college

hitters that's where I start. And there are some guys that, you know, I may be okay with them. You know, going a little bit higher and, you know, I'm fine with giving a little more freedom on that, but for the most part, especially College, editors just hit the ball hard into the Outfield. That's it. Let's let's start there. There are no conditions, there are zero environmental conditions where that is not ever going to not be a good result. Bright. Let's start with the thing.

That's always going to be a good result. And let's work from there. If you end up getting underneath the ball a little bit more and And the conditions warrant. It then okay, you've had a ball over and outfielders had cool. If you end up getting on top of a ball, a little bit more but you still hit it hard. You still may have a decent chance. If you hit it hard enough to where it's like a one hopper through the infield as long as

it's not right at an infielder. So start start with line drives into the Outfield and then let's let's work from there and then we'll make adjustments and be adaptable based on the

conditions from there. Mmm-hmm and also based on the type of hitter that you are and what your exit exit, they will potentially as currently at that time, as you're trying to build it, I mean, because the only counter example, I can think of, and it's not really that good of one is, I think my senior year, we're playing st. Thomas, and there's just massive wind and I swear this kid probably hit a line drive at like 110 and it just went, the wind literally knocked it down.

So that went straight to the center fielder And that ball was absolutely crushed and wind just killed it. Yeah, so, you know, it's it's one of those things where it's you can try being aware of that, right? But to like, what are we going to just take ground balls? They're like I mean, it's one of those unfortunate things where it's like, you did everything right? And it just wasn't good enough. So yeah, so such as such as life in the game of baseball. All yeah.

That's the way it goes. What do you got on the open Jersey? the no, the no button of the top two just the like Chest popping out. I don't mean I mean, do I like it? No, not really but I don't there are certain things where I just don't care. Yeah. You know, like, it's not, it's not something that to me is that interesting. Like, if it makes you feel more swaggy and you and you play better, I don't care, but you

got to play better though. Yes, you're gonna do that, you better you better back that up. How is Yelich done this year? Not good. That's kind of what I heard. I was actually thinking about that. The last couple days when they've talked about how he's not had a very good season and has struggled and watching him in this series, you can definitely see that to like he doesn't look comfortable. He is missing pitches that he has hit in the past whether it be just swinging.

Miss foul ball or hitting week. We ground balls or week contact. Right on cue. We just got beat by a pitch down the middle. It's it's it is interesting. It highlights to me the you know, kind of the nature of The nature of development, specifically, on the hitting side, man, he was very late. Holy Toledo. This is wild. Yes, this is why though. I love the side angle, you know, because I thought maybe you know what he was just under it. No, no. It's so obvious. He was.

Yeah. To me, that's the only benefit to the side angle as you can see, contact Point. Yeah. And you can see like how late somebody is but To me it highlights how it's something and hitting. We just kind of we just kind of pushed to the side and say well hitting is really hard. You know that's like a stereotypical like a very typical conventional thing that we say which it is. Yes. But like for a guy to go from as heralded as he was like God's gift to hitting.

And he's got everything figured out and because he made this change to his swing or he made this adjustment he did this and now he's arrived. And then now like he's and then this year, he's been very average like, or a little below.

And it just to me shows like No matter what changes to your swing or changes to, you know to what you think from a hitting standpoint that you've liked arrived adaptability is always going to be something that if you don't prioritize that on a year-to-year basis like consistently and being being in the moment with the pitch in that exact moment and adapting to that pitch. And that's like that that that should Trump everything that should Trump whatever.

Swing change is whatever. Oh, he's doing this different this year than he's done in the past. Like if adaptability isn't your goal in the moment with the pitch in that exact s Ms. Then you're going to have these ups and downs where you're like constantly going like this because you're just relying on that neck. That next swing change or that next approach.

Change that like that, it's it limits development because we just do these like wild Back and forth, shifts in our perspectives on what we think works. And most of the time, it's a movement aesthetic. That doesn't actually translate the success, but we attribute it to it. And, I mean, I, I just wonder if we were to commit to adaptability and if that were the most important thing, if we could find some more consistency instead of these wild changes in levels of success for these

Stars, mmm, No, I agree. Did. I mean for me it is about that moment, being fully present being fully connected to to the information in the environment. You know, IE the picture in the ball. As a white play occurs right there. Oh wow. Um I mean that even right there requires you to be in the moment, you know.

And actually so okay this is a I don't know if this will make the podcast or not but so You know, not to touch on any of the points that you just expanded upon, but let's say, somebody is like way too in their head, when they're hitting or playing or let's say, trying to feel the ball, just have them have a conversation with you while there while they're doing it. Just shut their brain down. Yeah, for like, what they're doing. I was I was doing some.

I was working with somebody for like with martial arts and we're trying to take more of an ecological approach. And we're talking about how, you know, how we don't want, what we're doing to be wrote, but you still need to have a feel for the techniques. And so in it, he was just talking about how, you know, the his training partner that he was working with was just always, it was just saying how he can't do

something or whatever. So they start doing their their movement generator, and he just starts talking to them and they're just having a conversation and all of a sudden he's doing the stuff that he said he couldn't do. Yep. And he didn't realize it. Because he was nice and the limitations on himself and his mind in the moment, rather than allowing his his unexplored, athletic ability to just come out naturally and coaches, don't

like that. This is don't like that because of coaches egomaniacs, and I know that that's an extreme thing to say. But it's true, like coaches can't handle when something happens without them being the ones that did it. And it's like, just let go of that. Like just let go, it's okay. Okay, a fleet can do things without you specifically prescribing it. I promise you, especially the higher levels. You go to.

They have capabilities that you that you might be getting in the way of because you want to make sure that you have things go the way that you want it to. Because it makes you look good. And yeah, that's that like, that is such a constraint and then an inhibitor to athletic development in my opinion. So what would you say on that like slow-mo from the side? Like I like looking at that and being like well he was just a

little early. Yeah, he was early and he likes swung over it. Like he wasn't even like he wasn't even on the same plane as that pitch psyche. Like it was like this. Yeah I mean granted it's not a good pitch to swing at we're Rod singer by any means as not a good pitch to swing at but if he were to hit it like if you would What adjustment would he have to make in order for him to actually be able to hit it? Well, he was early and he wasn't on there. Really wasn't on that.

He wasn't on the best plane to be able to actually run into that pitch, even if he had an event early into. Like I like to think about like okay what other ways could he have? Bought himself more time to allow the pitch to get a little bit further in and or because that pitch was so low to the ground. Could he have actually gone out and moved? You know, allowed his weight to shift even more?

Forward and take a center. Yeah to go out and get it or could he have had more side Bend and more forward lean with the Torso and more reach so that he can extend out? Because then that mole is actually easier to hit when it's actually further out in front of the plate there. So, I mean, to me, once you can identify those things of like, okay, what could they have done differently? Then when you feed them, other pitches.

Are you talking? You do a debrief with them, and you show them video like that, then they can go experiment. Or and try those things out and see what works for them and what doesn't so? I mean well for me that's how I would you utilize like that side angle, slow motion that speak to you know what I think is? And I know I'm a broken record on this that speaks to the issue with prescriptive technical

model teaching on the swing. When you do that when you are when you are teaching a specific swing. This is this is the correct way. And if this is in podcast audio form, I am holding up air quotes right now. When I say that if this is the correct way, air quotes the swing. That is that is by definition restrictive and confining and it is it is sending the message to the athlete to The Hitter that this is the way that you were

supposed to do this. Regardless of Is placed in front of you, regardless of what the pitch is asking you to do or what the previous context was, and it by definition limits. Exactly. The things that you were mentioning of possibly being able to go out and get it more or ride your weight out further, maybe even out on your front foot which is a No-No in terms of, you know, the way that we teach hitting nowadays or just even old-school, I mean, for me,

that's old school. Cool. Because that's what I was learning when I was coming up. Yeah you know coaches were so against that but like you are taking away those potential movement Solutions movement Solutions or to use a ecological Dynamics phrase, action capabilities. You are you are limiting that potential by saying this is the way that you swing.

Well what if you need something else that is outside of these rules that you're placing on me that I am supposed to stick within And to me, that's why you see so many, so many hitters that can only hit pitches in the middle of the plate. Hmm. Because they never explore to try to expand that dexterity that you mentioned earlier to be able to actually get to those different pitches because they're so worried about executing this specific movement pattern. I even hate the word pattern.

It's, I agree with this specific movement. Turn that limits you from being able to get two more pitches other than just down the middle. So then what does that lead to then then it leads to and it comes out of it's a circular causation in my opinion this whole like oh so when get pitches that you can hit down the middle and don't like wait, like wait for her pictures to make a quote-unquote mistake. And I'm doing air quotes again or take take 30.

Yeah, like just oh, you know, you just have to wait for the picture to make them Mistake. Wait for the pitcher to make a mistake like, like, which is why. I've said this multiple times on social media like, why don't we try to create mistakes with how we train, try to create the ability to make pitchers pitches or no longer pitchers pitchers? Because we are exploring all these different action capabilities to be able to, then Deploy on these different

pitches. Then maybe we don't have to limit ourselves to just hitting pitches down the middle that ball was smoked Ground rule. Double I was 102. Yeah, that was a perfect example right there. That was like middle and thigh-high like and yeah, he smoked it on that pitch and he probably thinks it's because of his swing, but it was because it's in the perfect place that he trains for on a regular basis. And he's more attuned to that pitch and he was just fully in

the moment. Yeah. Like to and fully fully attuned adaptable and dextrous there. And this is the other thing to do with when it comes to when we're talking about. Like attuned adaptable adaptable dextrous from an ecological Dynamics approach. You're not, you're not like always the same person from moment to moment. You're changing like your psychological State changes from moment to moment your action, kill capabilities, change from moment to moment.

And so we're hoping though that through all the different training that training environment and past experience playing the game that you have, that you will better be able to It into those states that allow you to succeed. And and so for me, that's that's kind of why I say, like, you know, he was attuned adaptable and dexterous in that moment. But that is based on the experiential level that you have with those moments, right? So way, yes.

I mean because you well I mean it's going to coincide with how much with how often you found yourself. Yes, I know where you're going with it. Or where I'm going to take where you were going with it.

Is it what it will? Then show is like if you're able to do it more consistently than you're going to have more consistent results but Just in the way that you can take, one person who doesn't have a ton of track record, of history of being a performing at a high level, and you stick them in and it like, and, you know, high-level moment and then they actually perform that's not based upon their past experience. That's based on the fact that

everything in that situation. Whether it's something that a coach said, maybe it's, you know, something else to that they were listening to throughout the day. They watched inspirational video. Somebody said a good word to them, whatever. And then they No, it combines with that moment when they go up to the plate and they, you know, they hit a pitch that, you know, they have no business or, you know, get a hit a game-winning

hit off of pitcher. They have no business doing that against that to me, just shows that for that moment, they were in such a state that they were able to be attuned. Adaptable dextrous that you're talking about like the idea of like a flow State more so than, oh, I've experienced hitting that pitch in practice. So it's easier for me to do it in competition. Well, I mean it's both right.

Like so what I'm saying is that because like what I like about an ecological approach is that we talk about complexity like there everything is a multifactorial event, right? So it's not taking away from what you're saying at all. It's just saying that. The, when we assess like, why something happens, it's not always because of their past experience, right? It, that is a Opponent of it, but it doesn't. It's not necessarily a prerequisite for it. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, that makes sense. Because there's all kinds of things that go into why we have the capability to do the things that we do from a physicality standpoint, whether it's

athletic or or not. yeah, I mean it's back to the the, your previous podcast, you know, maybe he ate Cheerios this morning or whatever, you know, like, It it all plays in and it and it's more on the perceptions of the of the athlete and how they perceive it. But but I mean that's, that's, that doesn't mean that you can do everything, you do have to understand, like, how the system adapts, you know, perceptually and, and to your point that you're making earlier, we want

them to be able to do that more often and more frequently, not just one off one time, like, you know, we're watching the movie Miracle and we just have to Beat the Russians one time. Yeah, I know. So that's why these things matter and actually understanding these principles and trying to implement them more frequently and more often. It's so that the athletes can perform at a high level more frequently and more often, Didn't look like it felt good. Did you see that? Yeah.

Did he scratch up? His nose? Looks like it. I don't know if that's dirt or like blood. Yeah, that was right down the middle. oh, you're a go infield in We could potentially have. What is the score of? White Sox, Astros game. 621 top of the eighth, so barring something crazy the Astros are going to Complete that series. The Braves win this game and then the Giants when tonight. Then we could have every series would be done today.

Yeah, that's why. I was like we got to do this this stream today not tomorrow because there might not be anything to watch tomorrow, may not be anything until Friday because that's when I think that's when I think that's the schedule. That's a big out right there. It was couldn't even get it in played. I mean this is where like, you know, everybody talks about like, oh, just hit the ball hard and far. Mmm, you don't always necessarily need to do that.

Like, I'd take Louisa rise in that situation. Who can just find a hole like that works. There it does but you're taking a greater risk from From a probability standpoint because you know there's there's more infielders on the infield where a less less of a reaction time. Obviously with them moved in there's less of a reaction time. I mean there's that but I mean that works too. That's is fair. No. But like a ball look. All you have to do though is

like by a contact hitter. Like what I'm meaning is not necessarily just a ground ball through the infield. I'm I'm meaning With a, with the ability to handle the bat. And even because right? Yeah. Oh, Rhys has the ability to flip it over the infield. Yeah, I mean, that's that's what you need in that scenario. Is somebody who has good bat control contact ability. Who can, you know, basically spray the ball at different angles. I mean, a ball in the air. There is going to score somebody to.

I mean that's that's where I. Yeah, to me when I got a guy on third, like, yeah, we are Friday, hit it over over. The infielders and you may get a hit out of it, you may hit a double out of it at the very least. You got a decent chance. I mean as long as you don't hit it like Sally of getting a Sac fly out of it like worst case scenario so it's try to hit a hard end of The Outfield somewhere which you know again like we mentioned earlier that.

I mean that's to me that's pretty much always the goal like no matter the situation and I feel like if you start there, you give yourself a really really good chance in pretty much any scenario of Of coming through and whatever situation that you're trying to come through it. And absolutely, I mean, because for me the whole, my whole Focus From The Hitting side is how do we score runs? You know, it's great to, you know, try to go for 22 runs right there. But you know, what one is,

what's that old saying? Like one in the one in the hand is better than two in the bush. Like, I mean, I'd rather have a run there then you know, Onto just a wealth of like, I'm not going to be opposed. If you hit it over the fence, you know, by any means. But once you got two strikes on you, like let's let's go for a where the higher probability is and I am filled still in. I think that's where the

distinction is the count. Yes, or two strikes, try to break and crush it and you get a pitch, you feel like you can hammer it if you miss it, it's still probably going to be a Sac

fly, right? When you get the two strikes like still, try to hit it hard into the Outfield, but But like make your focus like I just got to find a way to hit this, put the barrel just a little bit below the middle of the ball and try to do that as hard as I can with the constraint of trying to make sure that I'm able to do that first and foremost. And who knows? You still may hit a home run like with that kind of approach like he's no, make it a double.

I'm good at the very least like you are trying to get it into the Outfield and like maybe Chance at least drive that run in, you know, even if you're not driving are so, I mean, because that right there would have gotten the run in the last at-bat. Absolutely. And now no runs in that inning and we'll see how many runs, you know, ultimately matter in this, in this game, I can't remember what was it the Rays game yesterday? Boston, it came down to one run in a way.

Yep. So but I actually, I like this so far of using the game as just a way to To talk. Yep, and about everything up conversation about things and It kind of reminds you of stuff, it's like examples of things and like the real game situations which, you know, imagine this is where matters like yes in the game that's where it matters. We forget that. So often. Mmm, so often, I mean to like those arms slots, just hold that

balls moving. I I find that to be hard obviously, you know, I don't coach at I often don't coach at a level where guys are this good, but at the same point, Like how do you recreate that when you know you only have so many? So many arms you know like that's what I've been thinking about is how do I recreate these different pitches? Yeah those different looks well, which is like I mean that's that's another limitation of

like traditional BP, right off of off of a coach. which is why I like, the, and I know we've talked about this before the Flaws from the perspective of picking up information off of the picture that exists in using pitching machines that, you know, that would be your like, from conversations. We've had previously. That would be your biggest

complaint of them. And, you know, I know from an ecological perspective that is, you know, a negative part of using a pitching machine, is it real, like the fact that you in a bad? In practice setting, you face such a different type of pitch from a movement and velocity standpoint. The fact that you actually get to pick up the information that really isn't like that consistent with the information that you're getting from a picture to your point throwing at those on angles with that

speed. And their body is moving very differently than how traditional BP thrower. Like a coach is going to move there in a different spot, they're closer to you. So the negatives that you It from using a pitching machine from not getting those things. Is it really that is that adverse compared to you know? Okay using a machine or most of information?

I'm not going to get that close of information from BP pitcher anyway, so I might as well get the pitch right like the actual ball flight I might as well at least get that piece of it similar since, you know I guess the point I'm trying to make is A coach throwing batting practice, does not really look that much like a pitcher throwing to you. It doesn't some ways. It depends how you do it. Like meaning does your does the coach actually try to pitch?

You know I use a pitching motion or is he just throwing it over the plate? I mean, Granite like I liked you know going down and hanging out with Nick and he's throwing batting practice. Now he didn't I don't remember that if he had a full leg kick and everything but I mean the mere fact that he was mixing. Pitches that was awesome. When was that maybe end of August or something? I was always there before Fall Ball Z. What it said you went to Georgia Tech.

Yeah, what were you there for? I was trying to get flight scope to work. I still I need to email flight scope so that I can do something to get my flight scope working. Why were you at Lana though? Because I wanted to calibrate it against track man. The you went down there specifically for that and like you set that up with Nick and everything. Yep. And he was like was it like individuals for them?

And he was throwing the guys know, we me and him were just talking and we went into the cage and started goofing around, okay, it's how he is throwing to me and this this is actually like so we did something that I really liked which is to your point earlier. Is he just like I wanted to I think you should if your guys can handle it you should just start off with this of do. Hit everything DP and it's

mixed. So all I was doing was mixing and I had no idea which pitch was coming and my whole goal was just to try to be as connected as possible or in the morning as possible ball. Yep. To him in the ball and just just Barrel. It wasn't. My I was just trying to warm up and warm up by like so you did you see Rafe Kelly, did I share

a Kelly's work with you at all? Maybe he spoke at the sport movement skill conference this year but anyways I went to his Retreat this past weekend and his whole thing was on parkour. Martial arts, natural movement, all that sort of stuff. And so some of the some of the activities we did were just to, like, just warm up the body to move and to try to be more perceptually in tune with your environment. And so Like something as simple as like.

Okay we're going to move. I'm going to, I'm going to fix my eyes on a specific Target and I'm not going to take my eyes off of that Target and I'm just going to move in as many different ways and explore and so like I just kind of to me it's like taking that concept except now we're just actually hitting and this is a warm-up I'm not trying to move fast. I'm not trying to like crush the ball as hard as I can.

I'm literally just trying to hit the ball, every single pitch that is thrown my goal is to try to hit it. Yep. And I think that's a great warm-up. That's exactly what you just said that is that is a staple in any programming that that I have control over to build a run, anything that I had the control over like I do. And I call them and I think Chad calls on the same thing. No takes rounds. So you literally don't get to take and I try to do them as

often as I possibly can. I don't know that I always do the best job of explaining the reasoning behind it, that is an area that I can improve in because it takes like that is. So that is so very different from what hitters expect and what people expect in this game, it's actually the Opera, what did your what the, yes, right. I mean, it's not opposite of what they're taught, right? Yes, batting practice there. They're taught. I don't swing at that and BP.

That's a that's 2 inches off the plate. Like Yeah. So you're never going to swing at a pitch. Is 2 inches off the plate in a game. Like, come on, dude. But it's so anti, you know, what? They're taught these days. So it takes a lot to get buy-in with that, but I think that is it might quite possibly be the best hitting exercise that I like to do.

And could potentially have the most amount of benefit to any hitter at any level, if you can get the buy-in and get them to actually fully commit to trying to get something. Out of it. I mean in some ways I don't know if I would go that far. I look at it as a warm-up for me. It's a warm-up. It's something that gets you perceptually attuned. I think it gets you to your point, exploring. I like it a lot. I just don't because I think really where you have to go with this.

And this is what I see a lot do with a lot of other people, like, they'll do some things that are ecological. But To me, you have to take it all the way in terms of representativeness. I mean, that's where you kind of go with the ecological approaches like, okay, where are you on the, on the Continuum of representativeness and to me, like they hit everything around, is not that representative.

I mean, there's a whole face could be what could be polygamy, but but it's not, it's it's one slice of the game and I've been thinking about this and this, this came up in the conversation. I was having today about like the martial arts stuff and because martial arts has just this Panacea of like different things. and so, In a way you're looking to see. Okay, have you heard of the book make it stick by Peter Brown? It's about learning.

Yeah. Yeah. So in it he talks about this idea and concept of interleaving and so to me, what I want to do is I want to interleave a bunch of different types of scenarios skills whatever. So for example like let's like a hit everything around, I might start there and then I might transition to like a, you know To strike ground or maybe maybe a transition to runner on third round you know. Less than two outs, get them in. You know, like we just we're going to we're going to start.

We're going to start here and then we're going to go over here and then we might come back to hit everything around again, but maybe I'm watching the player and I'm like, you're going to do hit everything around and then you're going to work, you know, to strike ground or something or Whatever. So I might mix it up based upon what you see the player needing I think that's how I would approach it.

It can be hugely beneficial in the example that you just gave to to provide a context where this exercise that we're doing to start off. There could be some potential crossover where you can utilize the skills that you're developing in the hit everything round or the notation round. Yes, here is a context where you could potentially use those

skills. Now let's do this and then that helps them make the connection better because it's like okay this is why we do this too because then it's the situation that they might actually be able to deploy that skill. So the perfect example is you go from Hit everything round two. A hit and run round. Yeah. I mean you know, like and which is basically the same thing, right? It is.

But it isn't like, let's say, I actually put a runner on, you know, and then we, we actually put fielders out there. And now now I actually have you because to me, I like the idea and we've probably talked about this before, you know, whether it's legend or not. It's something that I think if, if someone actually did it, then we should try and see if we can recreate it of Well if the fielders are in motion on a hit-and-run, do you have the ability to you know or what does

the pitch afford you? Because the now that the fielders are moving, does that pitch afford? You put put it in the hole, does it afford you putting in a different hole and hitting in a different spot where you would traditionally hit it? and so that's that's to me is where you make it more specific and then see what they can do with it. Because yes, it's the same but it's not the same because once you start putting in different pieces into that equation and into that task, it's going to

change the behavior. Well, because it changes your attentional focus and it changes Different variables, which, you know, are going to alter what you're trying to do, and what your intentions are, as a result of what you as you as you alluded to what you're perceiving and the moment which

is going to change that. Also, whatever instructions you're given by the coach, whatever instructions are given by the person that is instructing you or developing you or has expectations of you and in that moment, like, for example, on a hit-and-run, Run. Most, most coaches. Want the ball? We're on the ground. Mmm. I'm not necessarily one of them. I'm not that rigid on that. But yeah, yeah, a lot of coaches. It's like whatever you got to do. You hit everything and it better

be on the ground. You hit the top part of the ball and make sure it's on the ground. Those are obvious constraints with what guys are trying to do, which that, that, that changes it from a note, takes round two. Okay, yeah, I don't get to take. And I'm supposed to be doing this, and this is what I'm seeing from the Fats which may or may not change what I'm trying to do.

Those are a lot of constraints and those are a lot of different things to try to be like grappling with while at the same time, being in the moment and being like, focused on the ball and like having that be your primary focus of what you're trying to accomplish. So yeah, that obviously adds a lot of variables, which could then potentially change your behavior, as a result of all those constraints, whether it be Environmental psychological, the expectations that are associated

with that as well. Those are all things to consider that are obvious, very, very different factors from the ones that you're going to get from just a. Okay, let's not take anything and let's just hit everything that we see. It does make it more complex,

for sure. It out of that out. 12. If you actually have Runners out there and you have a catcher and a pitcher, like you know how much how much how often is it said well you swing it everything when you're on a hit and run it's like let's just think about that. You really own everything, don't ya, right? It's the way over your head or if it bounces three feet in front of the plate you probably shouldn't be swinging at it.

I mean, yeah. If if the catcher can't make a throw on that on that ball that's being thrown to you. And it's not a strike and take the darn thing. Like there's no reason what's the point. What's the point of taking it Taking a strike there on a pitch that doesn't deserve to be called a strike and you have all you did was hurt yourself. It had zero benefit. You can have a runner on. You have a runner on second without having to give yourself up. Yeah. And still have a chance to drive

a mini. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think. Do you like by doing that and doing it live with the runner and stuff is like they begin to and a catcher because the catcher can then Art to see, like can I get this guy out on this ball? I mean, because if you have as a hitter you need to have some sense of what the catcher's capabilities are so that it can tell you what pitches you should swinger. Not swing it because we're going

to be as coaches. Mad if you take a pitch on a hit-and-run that gets the that guy gets the runner thrown out on. You never like, yeah. But it bounced. Yeah. But it bounced right into his glove? You know what I mean? Like that. Yeah, that's that's not, that's not going to work. You still got to swing at that one. You got to protect the runner. So it to me that that that explains why you should have these different pieces involved

in your practice activity. Yeah, side note, I don't know that I would do that because I'm not a big hit run guy personally. Hmm. So I don't know that I would Have any players and I'm coaching where I have the authority over, what they are doing or not doing a competition. I don't know that I would put them in that situation because it just wouldn't be just wouldn't be useful because I'm not gonna probably not going to be asking them to do that in a game. Anyway so that's fair.

I mean the whole another conversation now. Yeah, for me personally, I want I want my offense to be dexterous adaptable in dextrous also I do You like the idea of a guy running while a hitter is hitting, that's fair. And I do like Andrew what you want that to be a straight. Steal. If guys running like, I do not want to tell years. I don't tell hitters hey, if you like if a guy is running and he gets a great jump, I want you to take that pitch. I don't say that.

Know, if it's something, you feel like you can Hammer crush, it let the hit-and-runs happen that way. Mmm, let them happen. It actually might happen more frequently as a result of just allowing it to organically happen playing the game with what they're seeing in the moment, what they're attuning to what what the game is, providing them kind of giving it to them in that way.

As far as like me like explicitly saying you're going to run here and you're going to swing no matter what like that's that's that's that's not who I am as a coach. I like giving more of that freedom and and kind of teaching before and after two players, how they could potentially be picking up better information and being able to, you know, maybe provide the provide for themselves better ways to be

more successful. I think it's better if it happens, organically instead of me legislating it by putting a sign on to say, hey we're hitting and running here. Like, no, just let it happen. Naturally. No, I like that. I just so when I'm thinking about what you're saying, I'm thinking about like, okay, how would I design? How would I My practice is to allow the players to fully take advantage of that philosophy.

And so like based upon what you're saying, I would want my hitters and and Runners to some extent, but no actually Runners to. So I want my hitters to actually experience that where they see guys just take off, we don't know that they're running, they take off. And quite honestly, I would want guys to have some Attunement. It's a Field one sensitivity to that. But then also some sensitivity in a tune meant to is that really, really a pitch that you can drive.

Because if you feel like, you know, maybe like you initially, you're like yes, yes. And then you're like, yeah. Not 100% on this. And you've got a great jump. Shut it down. You don't know me like that, that you have to, you have to create scenarios where they, where they train that field, because otherwise they're just going to take a hack there and it's going to hurt your guys, that, you know, he had a great jump. Time and he fouled it off. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, but on the flip side, you then need your Runners. Used to the fact of you go steel ball, put in the put in play in the air. You got an evil twin the wall? Yeah, they need to be peeking, they have to, they have to have that awareness of being able to find the ball, pick it up and know whether or not, they get a book, it back to back to their previous base. Or you know what? Maybe maybe actually you got two bases or more there and you got to be ready to get going on your

horse. Soooo. I mean because sometimes I bet you you'd see that to where a guy just goes to steal and they see it hit and they just stopped at the base that they were going to so well I think that from like a base running standpoint and from just like a play in the game standpoint that is you know, that's just being being as we talked about a lot here being in the moment, being attuned to

what the ball is doing. Being aware of every bit of piece of info that you can be taking up around you and the environment to to then be able to make better decisions. And be more instinctual with how you are trying to play the game, that's going to lead to the most amount of success. So which, you know, would be a very big part from an offensive

standpoint. If I was in control of offense that I would be trying to instill those Concepts and those ideas and principles and more specifically, if you're stealing you like a hundred percent of the time you pee, there there is never a time that you are stealing that you are not.

Not looking in to see to try to pick up the ball, as it's going into the Hitting Zone. Like always you, you always need to be picking that up because you never know if the hitter is is going to be swing at that pitch or not. So you need to be picking that up the other thing from a hitting standpoint and you brought this point up, it's a

really good point. Having conversation with the hitters to say, listen, I want you to have the freedom to hit, if it's a Pity that you feel like you can hammer in a gap somewhere. I also want you to have the freedom to feel like if You want to take that pitch because you would rather hit with him on second and him on first, make it

mine. I want to leave that up to them like, and that is a decision based on them in the moment, how they're feeling, whether they're confident enough to be able to take a pitch down the middle, maybe it gets into one strike, maybe get some 22, but they're confident enough in their ability to be able to get the job done later in the that too, because it maybe they want a better RBI opportunity.

Mmm, so having the freedom to do either, or those are conversations that you have with your hitters as well. And then it's something you talked about before. It's something to talk about after ABS so that they can better be able to determine whether that was a good decision to either swing or not swing and how they get and how they can be better from that. Move forward in the future. As far as a practice design standpoint. I think that's why I'm such a believer in playing games as

often as you possibly can. Now with the intention of having conversation before and after so that you can learn from stuff that happens in the game. But That's why from a practice design standpoint as often as we can create those situations by playing actual games, with the freedom, to be able to stop

games. If necessary, to be able to talk about situations and be able to learn from them, but as often as you possibly can, you play games so that you put players in those situations so that you can then facilitate that conversation so that they can grow from it. But to your point you you can't attune better in those moments in these types of situations from a baserunning, standpoint from a hitting standpoint unless you are actually doing it. And it's actually real which is

why games are so so important for hitters and base runners and pitchers and catchers and filters and all baseball players. It's so important for their development and the ability to be able to create those conversations comes from that and to I think another way of doing it, I'm I'm not opposed to scrimmaging. I know that you know, coaches Old School coaches. That's what they're doing a lot. It's just a scrimmage.

I mean there's there's some value in utility to that but I think the the there's another way to approach it as well, like let's say that's, you know, you you want to argue that, that's not the best way, what? Like guys need more specific work. Well, I think you just scale it down. Instead of it being like just a,

you know, a normal scrimmage. We're like it follows the normal rules of the game and you just, you just set up those scenarios where those Those things that you want to work on our and it it's just a slice of the game. Yeah and I for me I'm I'm kind of more of an advocate of that I'm not opposed to scrimmaging.

I think it's good. But if you need specific work on certain slices of the game where you want to give guys a certain feel because again there's and by feel I mean like feel of a certain game situation that they're going to have to problem solve I think you should create those scenarios for them. And put them in front of them so that they have to work through it because it comes to this concept.

And this is something that Robert and I wanted to talk about in a, in a podcast is this idea of knowledge of versus knowledge about you know, you can get in front of a white board and tell guys or watch film and tell guys, this is what you need to do, but they're not like it's way different than being in there. And from you know, a personal point of view perspective that experience and that knowledge.

That's knowledge of Purses knowledge about and we want to get we want guys to acquire knowledge of rather than knowledge about and so that's that's for me why it's important to create those Snippets and those slices rather than just look at film and just talk to guys and tell them what to do. You want them to actually experience that?

That's the idea of experiential learning by placing yourself in the scenario whether it be in an actual game or if you're creating more of a small sided game, mmm type of scenario and you're repeating that scenario over and over again so that they have to solve that problem over and over again in a way where you're able to get the right types of repetitions. Well I hope you guys enjoyed Is podcast with Caleb Abney.

Pure listening along at home, the battery just died so we appreciate you listening in. Make sure to head over to YouTube and subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can get our clips and all that sort of stuff. Otherwise make sure to follow Caleb Abney at see, Abney 18, I believe it is. So if you're not already, make sure to follow Robert or myself on Twitter.

You can find Robert at roberts10 far, ey 40 on the the twitterverse and then you can follow line me and follow me at gb0 I um 01 that will get you both my Twitter and my Instagram so make sure to check us out. Follow us and stay up to date with the latest from finding the edge podcast. Hope you guys enjoyed today's episode. Hello. Can't see him. There's a little guy. He's a wanted to join me on the outro here so that's it. Yeah, you did.

So we hope you enjoyed that episode with Caleb Abney and our live commentary. Sorry for the abrupt ending. But here's your outro to have some sense of normalcy. We can get a if I can get a quiet moment here. Hello.