Anti-Racism in the Workplace Begins with YOU with @arleadership - S4:E3

that will change the world. Hey, y'all, welcome back to the finding feliz podcast, I have to say that this podcast has given me the gift and opportunity to have some conversations that really, really changed my life that, you know, shake me to my core, that teach me, you know, really important things that allow me to unpack with all of you, you know, these ideas that have been rolling around in my brain that really need to rise to the surface and be a part of our collective conversations and

consciousness. And this conversation today with Elissa Hall is it's really something we should all savor, it really feels like a gift. And I'm getting emotional, even just thinking about this discussion and what it meant to me. For those of you who don't know, Alyssa is work yet she is an activist and advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion. And she has a lot of important thoughts to share particularly around things like how do we support, you know, folks that are, are diverse in the

workplace? And how do we take anti racism from being this, you know, surface level conversation to being, you know, a deep, deep practice of creating psychological safety in our companies, in our communities, for our clients, for our team

members. And this conversation, I feel is especially poignant, given where we are at, in the trajectory of the work, I felt like, there were so many companies that came to the surface, you know, post summer 2020, and we're like, we're gonna do it, we're anti racist, we did a training. We did it,

y'all. And there are not enough people who are returning to the work and staying in the work even as it's messy isn't as it's hard, even as it's a couple of years since these big moments, because, let's be honest, you know, we still have such a long way to go when it comes to systemic change. And I believe that we as business builders, can be a really, really important, you know, leader in this conversation in the ways that we set examples and model

anti racism through our work. So I am very honored and excited to present this conversation to you all today. I hope it sparks, you know, questions within you about the things that you can be doing inside your company, to really, you know, bring anti racism into your leadership style. So I won't give much more away. But I strongly, strongly encourage you to stick around for this whole episode and share it with somebody as well. But without further ado, here is my conversation with Alyssa Hall.

Hello, and welcome back to the finding fearless podcasts, I am pumped for today's conversation, it is so critical. So important. I am sitting down with Alyssa Hall today. And for those of you who don't know her yet, I'm so excited to introduce you to her. She is a thought leader, a trainer and a coach working at the intersection of anti racism

in the workplace. And you know, it's just one of these essential people doing the good work to really change the way that individuals and company think about culture and think about hiring and think about the way we're doing business in this world. So, Alisa, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to get to talk to you today.

doctor? Is this something I can still do? And the doctor like, Yeah, you're good. That's obviously blah, blah. And then I feel like this comes up in conversations about like, culture. And I mean, like company culture, of just like, what is it that we are expecting people to do? And how can we, we expect them to match that with

their actual life. And that came up for me with like, I have a one year old, I have not even touched medical school, I have not touched residency, which people expect so much of individuals expect them to essentially just put their entire regular life on pause, even though life never goes on pause in order to do something like this. And I was just like, that's not the path for me anymore. So I was like, What's one rung down? Let me be a therapist. That's one rung down.

And I was like, okay, but I have to pay bills. And I don't have time to like, go through all the schooling for that. Well, being therapy is this thing called coaching I've just heard of, so let me just go ahead and do that. And that's how I started that journey. I was really scared to put down the investment for the certification program. And I actually sat on it for an entire year before actually deciding to make that

move. And the day that I started the coaching program, the day after that I had broken up with her dad, and was a single mom. And I'm just like, are we joking? So it was this weird situation of just like, do I keep going, it's early enough that I can still pull out. But I was just like, Absolutely not, I have to just finish this, I don't see the life that I want to have for myself going any other way. So that's that's the part one of the story how I even got into coaching in general. Yeah,

medical system. And then similar to you, after I had my son, I was like, how I'm not even done with undergrad like, how am I going to go through, you know, getting my, you know, starting starting to go to medical school going through residency. And candidly, like, the only people I know, who have been able to do it have had to have like a partner who was the rock their support for that, like 10 year journey. And his dad was never going to be that for me, and so

very much similar to you. My career path was a lot more about how do I provide for this child that I have, and, you know, eventually led me into a direction that I'm really grateful to go. But what I love about that story elicit is that

you chose yourself. Like I think sometimes we as women look back and we think that those decision decisions were motivated purely by our kids and like, what do I want to provide for this family I've created, but what I see in that story is like, you know, at a moment, that could have been a low, right, like separating from her dad, you were looking out and ahead, and you were saying, there's a life out there I deserve, there's a life out

there we deserve. And you said yes to that, and that you didn't see I'm like already getting emotional. We're like five minutes in and I'm like crying. But I'm like, I just think we need more stories of that, right? Because our grandmothers, our mothers, you know, didn't necessarily have the same opportunity. And so, for me, that decision was to finish school. You know, it was like, I don't know where I'm going next. But I know that I need to get

from here to there. So I'm just, I think it's so beautiful that you chose to invest in yourself and say yes, even if it was scary.

part one of the journey. Tell me tell me what came next?

client. And when she was talking about work, I was like, wow, this is boring. I actually do not

Floyd. And I don't know how much attention you were paying to the online space at that time, but really

color. Like I was like, look at all the books I'm reading, I started an anti racist book club, like I did all the things. And like, it was, it was a little bit too much. And I think we needed to do more listening is what I've learned. And then the third camp was, I'm going to, I'm going to fight this, I'm going to say, you know, white lives matter. And the cops are great, and all this shit. But so. And it was very polarizing, because so many people had built online businesses starting in

2020. And so there were a lot of newbies in the space. And there were a lot of people with big platforms, but you tell me your perspective, what did you feel and see what's happening?

okay? Like, because for me when I had first heard about George Floyd, I was just like, are we? Are we serious? Like another one? Like, it was just a very annoyed moment. And then like 24 or 48 hours later, the online world implodes. And I'm like, Are y'all are y'all actually good is what is actually going on here. And that's what that felt like. And it was just, there were a lot of things that for me, I thought, and this is just my being naive. I just thought we were all doing the

same thing. We're all having the same mindset. And it caused me to really do some internal reflection on myself, but also really have a deeper understanding of what this work actually is. What like dei work actually is. And then I was like, people do this for a living like the anti racism

work. I was like, I didn't even know that was a job like, and once I realized what all of that actually was, I just threw way, the mom coaching thing I was like this is important, but I actually don't care about something where I don't even want to talk about this anymore. And I just dove headfirst into trying to support people online. And at first, it was just me just going on live and just saying I'm pausing the mom

thing. And after like two weeks of me going online every single day, like trying to help people. My therapist and my coach on the same week were like, Why don't you just make this your niche? And I was just like, Are you kidding me, I just finished making the sales page and the opt in for the mom coaching, like, now I have to do this all over again. And I was like, Okay, I'll make just this little random sales page. And that that was three years ago. So and

that's what's so funny. It didn't even like blow up like that. But it really made me want to keep going within this, because I just saw what the impact on the other side of this was.

you're needed to listen. And you and the beauty, this is a part to that beauty is I am so deeply grateful, particularly to women of color, who stepped up in this moment, and said, I can be of service, I can be of support, I can be of education, I can be of guidance, I have lived experience, stop fucking asking your employees of color, it's not their job to educate us. Pay me pay me my work is worth which we'll definitely talk about later. And I will do this work. Because to me, you know, there

is this double edged sword. And I'm curious, your take on it. But it's like, you know, folks, folks, especially, you know, I identify as white like folks who are white identified who are trying to do this work, we often missed up and look around for the closest person of color and say, you know, for example, on the day, George Ford died, how are you doing? Are you okay? Thinking that we're being empathetic. And really, like you said, we're being fucking

annoying. Like, like, like, my experience that I learned a lot from was like, this happens every day like this is getting more attention. And also, I am, you know, I am hurt. I've been hurting for so long. You know, that like for you to just show up today and be like, it's an issue I'm suddenly woken aware of it is like, it's very insensitive. And so I'm curious for you, what has been your journey, Elissa of choosing to be the person to step in the ring and do the education?

Because to me, that's a that's a big mantle to wear. Like, what what makes you feel called to do this work?

going to happen, right. But by them working with me, it's going to happen in a way that she will possibly be able to feel safe and be able to thrive in that environment, compared to just following all of these oppressive norms that we've been taught to follow. But I think one lesson that I learned in the very beginning of doing this work is like, I, I need to understand what my limits are in terms of who I'm going to work with. And the capacity that I'm going to work with people.

Because it can feel like I want to save the whole world. I want to do the whole thing, right? And then I would get certain clients and I'm like, Oh, wow, this is like incredibly draining. Yeah. Oh my god. Like it was just so deeply uncomfortable. And it was just like, I'm not in my journey yet to be able to do this type of work. So let me really focus on what is my lane and staying in that

it out, you know? And for me and and you know what really attracted me to your work and why I wanted to have this conversation is you have a lot of powerful thoughts about how equity and inclusivity isn't an external thing. It isn't a performance. It's something that starts within. And I'm curious because, you know, a lot of our audience is, you know, founders

leaders. And I'm curious, like, what do you say to a leader who hasn't done that internal work, but it's either, you know, pretending to be anti racist is out in the world or is trying to do, like we were talking about before we hit record, like, Oh, I'm going to do the training, and I'm going to, we're going to be good. Like, what do you say to those people, to get them to start looking within or hopefully looking within?

to do things. And in order for you to achieve the goals that are important to you, in order for you to like, actually live out your business and these values, actually, you need to throw all of that away, and do it in this way. That alone number one is just scary. And it's also not sustainable for us to assume that a person is just going to change everything that they have been taught is the right way to do this other thing to hopefully gain some type of

return on it. And when we do that internal work, we're able to at least understand what is going on. I like to give this like very random example of just like, imagine there is this CEO of like this corporation, and he hires this di person, and he's about that life, he's so excited to start the work. And this particular company is not client facing at all. It's like a call

center. And she's like, you know, the fact that everyone has to come in and suits every day, that is not allowing people to just like really be their full selves. What if you just took away the dress code. And then once people come in as their full selves, they may feel a little bit more comfortable that you might actually get better metrics, all the things, right, just from allowing people to show up as their full selves. CEO guy says, yes, that's great.

Let's do it. And as they that shift happens, he's noticing his own thoughts. He's noticing, oh, I need to hover over Sarah a little bit more, because she's coming in everyday looking like she's going to the beach. And I have to hover over John a little bit more, because he's coming in with sweatpants and a graphic T, I need to make sure that he's not too lacks on these calls.

And he's doing this and all he seeing is, well since I changed the dress code, I have to hover over people not realizing that he hasn't shifted what his definition of professionalism is. So now he's doing this helicopter ring. And then a month later, he switches everything back. And now we're back to the suits for this call center job. And all of that comes from not doing that work internally. I hope that makes sense.

hoodies, stuff like that. And I started coming in like everyone else was in yoga pants and a hoodie. And I had been asked by the company, because I have a fitness background, Hey, would you you know, teach some classes we have a gym at the workplace. And I was like, Sure didn't get paid to do it. Taught Pilates a couple times a week. So not only was coming in in the attire that everyone else was wearing, but was also coming in at giving my time for free labor to keep their employees engaged and

happy and healthy. And week one or two after I started teaching those classes was pulled aside by two female managers for prancing around the office in yoga pants. I was fitter than most of the people there. I had a bigger personality. The most of the people there, I had very visible tattoos that when I was in my workout attire you could see. And although all of my peers were also in athleisure, I was, I was reprimanded and told

them to change the dressing. And then fast forward like five, six years later, I'm the leader of an inside sales team. Now, I've got an office, I've got a culture. And because I'm the boss, you know, I show up in a blazer, every day I cover up my tattoos, I dress a certain way. And I start employing a more diverse populace of employees. And I noticed right away the liberties that my white employees felt like they could take in terms of dress, and you best believe my employees of

color. I mean, you don't care how lacks that just could, they showed up in a certain attire so that they could command the respect they deserved. And it was just something that I recognized. And I didn't, you know, I didn't say anything, I didn't change any policies around it. I just said, you know, you're at liberty to dress the way that you want to feel comfortable and to feel seen and felt what you feel is professional in the workplace.

But because of that experience I had had I recognized sometimes if you want to command the respect that you need in an environment where you're already going to be judged, because you're young, because you're female, because you're a person of color, whatever that perspective is, you know, after that yoga pants experience, my role was dressed for the job you want, not the job you have.

Which means that even when the dress code was athleisure, I showed up looking business every day, because I wanted a promotion because I wanted to get paid more. But that example, I know, too, is she because it happened in my own on my own work life.

over. It does not suit anybody to try to jump into something before anyone is ready. And I think that's the mistake that a lot of people made, especially in June 2020. But in trying to understand how do they do this work without going internally first.

to make a bigger impact. These are the questions I was thinking about when I created figure eight. Figure Eight is a mastermind community for female founders that care about maintaining their own energy as much as maintaining the environment and their emotional well being. It's a place for ambitious women to connect with each other and dive deep into coaching, learning and community around topics like pricing, branding, marketing, networking,

and so much more. We have a cohort running throughout this entire year. And we would love to invite you to join us. You can learn more about the program and inquire to apply at Fearless foundry.com/join figure eight. I've got to be honest, I hate big banks. I hate what they do with our money and all the insane and inane fees they charge us for basically no

reason. So when it came time to pick a bank for my business, I knew I needed to find a bank that actually cared about small businesses and aligned with my core values. That is why I chose relay from their top of the line technology to their amazing mobile banking and virtual card features to their incredible customer service. And the ease of access for my accountant really truly offers everything a scaling small business needs in

a bank. I consider them a core partner to fearless foundry and one of the keys to us being able to grow our business and manage our money with ease. If you're looking for a better bank checkout relay by visiting fearless foundry.com/relay To start your free account in under 10 minutes. And I also think being a female founder working

with so many female founders. I also think the patriarchy side of this conversation is so important because I see so many women leaders, women business owners, oppressing judging, competing with under valuing the work of other women because of our internalized future, Eric, and, you know, in that example I gave you again, I was reprimanded by two women who were had ideas of how women should dress and behave in the

workplace. And I thought that policing would stop when I started my own company and focused on like, I'm just going to work primarily with women. And unfortunately, I see not just a lot of racism in this online space, but I see a lot of a lot of internalized patriarchy. Do you agree with that? Do you see something similar?

Right? Like, we see it all the time when it comes to like, women with women, like you said, that internalized patriarchal thing, and it's just this. It's a survival tactic. It's like, well, there's only room for a couple of us and I have worked my butt off, you're not about to come in here. And, you know, be in your power, and take what I have earned. And it's the same thing. When it comes to just

like people of color. It's like, we've been told that we have to take all of our culture away, we have to assimilate, we have to do all of this. So then who are you to not do that and expect the same. It's literally the way that our society was designed.

allowed in this room. So like, sorry, but I can't, you know, I can't open the door for you. Because I'm the chosen one. It's like, Y'all like, we all have to get inside. Like, we all have to get inside and be like, all these fucking systems are broken. All these walls need to come down, all these barriers need to be dismantled. And guess what, like, I believe we can't

fucking do that alone. Like, I'm like, you know, for, for example, like, when I edit and it's it's an it's a dismantling, but like, it's like that thing where, obviously, you're not the only person doing this work, right? Like, obviously, and you see someone else another woman, like I see another woman in marketing, or I see another woman doing branding stuff or in pricing. And that that nasty frickin Gremlin that lives in your gut like is like that, like, a career, like, why is she

doing that shit like that. And you're like, I have to, like, work with that energy so often and be like, shut the fuck up. There's like billions of people on earth. Like, she is my sister, my ally, my friend, like, we are clearly passionate about the same things. If I'm out here doing my work, and she's out here doing that work. That means more people know about this work, we all win,

there's plenty to go around. But that oppression that pitting us against each other, that patriarchy that scarcity, is, like you said, so woven into the system that you have to like, it's it'll work, you have to be conscious of the fact that like, that's not you, that's just the bullshit you were taught.

you'll be okay. And that, I feel like for me, that was my own personal awakening for June 2020. It's like, that's a damn lie. What are we actually talking about, it does not matter the way that I present myself. Because at the end of the day, I'm still gonna be put into that same box. So I am going to shed all of these things that I have had to learn. And instead, I'm going to decide what does it look like to be my full self? And how is it that showing up in that way is also

going to make grand change. But there is just such a deep, like almost awakening process for the women who are stuck in that cycle that they just have to go through.

ghetto. And then we have like, the machine that is American pop culture and entertainment just being like, let's appropriate, all things that are black women, like I'm like, the Kardashian effect is actually the appropriation of black culture, and monetizing it to mainstream

whiteness. So here you have, you know, and the Kardashians aren't the only one, like, let's, let's talk about Cardi B, let's talk about all these different women who are not, you know, ethnically Black, who are taking these things that have been, you know, don't wear big hoop earrings, don't have your hair and braids don't whatever that bullshit is. And they're doing it, monetizing it, making so much money off of it, selling it, regurgitating it back to us

as their product lines. And I just can't imagine that as a black woman on the sidelines of that chick, like what, like, I'm being told, not this. And also, I'm watching every white woman go by extensions and acrylics, and whatever that's the culture is saying is hot right now, that comes from a culture that is not theirs. Like, am I? I'm like, I'm showing my whiteness here. But tell me if there's something here that that is worth unpacking.

they are. And then also just the type of the different type of oppression that they've had to experience and they have to undo in terms of what does it look like for them to take back their culture to take back their version of what it means to be Afro Latino compared to being told that they need to assimilate in their, in their home country and and also here, as well. So it's like this whole weird thing about like, what does it actually mean to be black? What does it mean to be

black, American, black? Anything else? And how do those things are? How are those things similar? And how are they different? It's this very weird pool of stuff.

And now, I see the pendulum swinging, swinging in an entirely different direction, where, you know, cultural ethnic identity is so important for people to rediscover those roots to rediscover the history tradition, dress, culture, flavor, whatever the thing they want to bring to the table to say like this is what it means to be black to me or this is what it means to be Latina to

me. And I see the like, like, like the white supremacy is like it's always changing shape like it's it's quite a fucked up animal and that is like always morphing into something else. And so like the way I see white supremacy show up now is not in the past it was that like we don't see color like that was like your your your grandma's version or your like aunties version. Yeah, my auntie, not your auntie, she's probably my Auntie's version. I don't see

color right. But now I see it as like this like mythology that we are in a post racist society, that it's like, oh, it's all good. Now we see all races and we know they exist. And therefore, we are going to pick and pull the things that we like that we think are good, you know. And this is actually a maj This is respect and recognition of, you know, this heritage, this culture this identity But unlike, you know, one quarter My identity is a being a queer

person. And to me, I'm like, Yeah, I don't want people to dress up as gay people, like, I don't think that's fun or cute. Like, I wouldn't want you to come out and pride. And like you, we see those people at the parade who are like, look at me rainbows, and you're like, nodding, that y'all like it. It's not that just like, show up and support, but like, don't turn us into, you know, a costume you get to wear for the weekend, right, but you have the

privilege of taking off. And so I think that's where we still have a lot of work to do to be like, you know, the difference of a me as a white woman, you know, appropriating or wearing or dressing a certain way. versus, you know, my friends who identify as black like, still facing racism, judgment, oppression, you know, lack of income for making those same choices in things like IT professional sphere, you know, so so to me, that's what I see

and feel. But how does, how do you see and feel that in your work?

this is actually a thing. Like, it shouldn't be that, you know, someone else shows up anywhere, like a again, the Kardashians with the boxer braids, shows up with their quote, unquote, boxer braids somewhere, and they are high fashion, right. But if I were to show up to it doesn't even have to be word, it can literally be anything. And I'm not taken seriously. Because I have a similar hairstyle. And solely because I have a similar

similar hairstyle. That is the honestly like, whenever I experienced it, I'm just like, is this actually is this what's going on right now it is just this mind blowing experience. And it's like, until I'm able to do that and just be my full self, then another person can't take parts of what they think is fun or cool. And not experienced the same thing that I have to experience.

South Asian name. And for weeks, same insurance providers, everything her claim kept getting denied, kept getting denied. And then she had that moment you just talked about like, Oh, I wish my name was Becky Smith, because this application would have been approved weeks ago. You know, and, and, and it's just, it's that thing of like, you can't take it off. Like it's her fucking name. Like she she walks through the world as a South

Asian woman. And, you know, and therefore experiences, the way that the world still diminishes, depreciates that. And I think, you know, I think what's so important here is how leadership factors into all of this, like, to me, what I think is really important about your work is you, you know, you recognize what I call the ripple, the ripple is if I can come in, and I can impact the life of one individual, particularly an individual of influence, this

work can spread. And so what you've really honed in on is anti racism in leadership. So that, you know, business leaders are going to go out in the world and consistently, you know, be not only seeing racism, but working to be actively anti racist, to, you know, uproot and change, you know, this professional environment, this business environment and business practices. So will you talk a little bit about anti racist leadership and why you feel this is so essential to the work?

And what is it that I need to be doing? How do I need to show up to the table? In order for them to thrive? They need to feel safe with me. They need to know that if they are struggling, then they can come to me, and what is it that I need to do? Especially if we don't look like each other? How do I need to show up in that way, for them to feel safe, if something is wrong, there are so many different layers I feel of what anti racist leadership looks

like. And that ripple effect of understanding that our entire society was really just built off of a bunch of people's businesses, at least in the US, it's just a bunch of people started businesses, they turned it into corporations, and those corporations are deciding or like following the same systemic norms. And it's less about like the individual, the individual interpersonal relationship in terms of like, being anti racist

or being inclusive. It's about how we dismantling the systems in the places that we have power. And, and I feel like that's also that deeper layer of anti racist leadership of just how do I make these changes so that those systems of oppression aren't? How do I make these changes so that those systems of oppression aren't affecting the people that are lucky enough to

be in my space? And understanding that, even if there are no racists in the space, because I feel like that's the mindset that we all have, like, how do I not be? How do I how do I not be a terrible person? Even if there's no racism in the space, the system is still racist? So we have to undo that system, regardless of who is in that space? I hope that all makes sense.

Renee Taylor's work. And, you know, her conceptualization of the ladder, you know, is so powerful and impactful because we as white women hold a very interesting place on this ladder, oftentimes higher up than women of color, people of color, and therefore, there's a lot of white women who are like the letters fine, like the letters good, you know, yeah, I'm a little oppressed by those white men above me, but at least I'm not having to deal with everybody below me is having to

deal with. But worse, most people, most white folks don't see the system or blatantly pretend not to see the system because the system is serving them just fine. And so there's a narrative there that like the system's not broken. What do you mean? Like, you know, I haven't had to face any injustice. I don't know anybody who's dealing with that was like, well, first of all, do you know any people of color? Here's my first

question. But But even that, you know, one of the ways that I feel like that you can finally get people to see this system is to again, kind of going back to that narrative of intersectionality, showing them the places that the system hurts them. And one one thing I want to pull out a thread I want to pull is this thread of safety.

Because I've seen so many conversations, particularly post me to where it's like, we don't fucking feel safe hair, y'all like we I like, there was a meme I saw this week that was like, How amazing would it be if like, the world had established hours, like every day between four and 7pm women are just allowed to be outside, we are allowed to frolic we are allowed to walk, we are allowed to wear crop tops. And, uh, nobody can do shit. Nobody can talk to us. Nobody can stalk us. Nobody can

say anything. Like, we just allowed to be out here, y'all. And I was like, that's the thing though. Like, I still, you know, living in a predominantly white area, in a fancy fucking building, I carry my keys in my hands every time I go to my car. You know, I still have a birdie alarm on me at all times. I still have pepper spray. So I'm like safety is a way that I feel like we can get people to start seeing the system and going wait a second, if you don't fucking feel safe, and you have all

these privileges. What does that say about the system that we're a part of? So can you talk about how safety is a key to seeing the system but also how what can we do if we are a leader? You know, how is a safety, safety and a vital thing to be thinking about when it comes to inclusivity trauma awareness, work environments, etc.

for her to be her full self. But instead, most likely, what she has to do is still have to use her dead name, still have to show up looking like a man have to not even be able to talk about herself with her her co workers, even though everyone's like, Oh, what'd you do last week of all, but that she's going to have to like shield herself and all of these things like, it feels like just a weight on the back. And as another one and another one and

another one. So that person is completely hunched over at their desk, Monday through Friday, 40 hours a week? And what does that do to that person? Because they just can't exist as their full

selves? How can they even show up to their duty 100% If they have to have all of these boulders on their back, and they can't even say anything about it, because then that will create physical and safety that will create possibly not being able to continue to work there and making it very difficult to find another job, all of these different things are starting with how do we make this a place that is safe enough for people to just come as they are, and not have to be rep not even

reprimanded by that but have to experience an adverse reaction from them just talking in the way that they want to talk, doing what it is that they're doing in the way that works best for them. Same thing with just like neurodivergent people who have to mask all the time and have to do things in a way that works so terribly for them. But it's the only way to do that or

the right way to do it. These are all elements of like, how do we make this space psychologically safe for people to ask for what they need, so that they can thrive here.

alone. But then I think if you flip that lens, and you look out at other industries, I'm like, I don't trans women leading fortune 500 That don't see black trans women being celebrated and finance, manufacturing, you know, in startups you culture, like I'm like, show me the examples. I know they're out there. But but it's easy to look through one the lens of one industry and be like progress is happening. But it's like, yes, in the entertainment industry,

which is important. Let's be clear, like, showing visible examples of transmits on screen is a huge way to push for acceptance and progress. But I you know, I work a lot with, you know, folks in finance with folks in technology with folks, you know, who are startup founders, and, and what I see, you know, is a lot of a lot of folks from the queer and trans communities, creating their own companies, because they don't feel safe to be seen in the

world. And, and I think that's really, you know, beautiful, in some ways, you I'm a champion for building a business model of

your own. And I think this is part of the way that we dismantle this system is we say, look like, you know, particularly as a woman, as a mother, all these things I look at the working world, I'm like, this shit wasn't built for me, like, I'm gonna go do me, I'm gonna go build a new way of working, I'm gonna go, you know, partner and, and, and foster, and just exclusively work with people who believe there's a better way of doing business.

But in that there's still a lot of fuckery like we were talking about with the online space, there's still people who are performing one way, and then you get under the hood. And, and, and, you know, the biggest scourge to my business has been, you know, what I call performative, wokeness. And people who are out there, you know, pretending to be a different type of leader because that's what they think the culture wants, or that's what they think will sell their shit.

And so I'm curious to talk about to about honesty, like oftentimes, like I said, you know, we've seen individuals who are performing and I think though it comes with that comes fear, like they're, they're afraid to fucking it up, you know, they're afraid to admit that they still have work to do. And so I'm I sure that these are probably people who are in and around your circles. And I'm just curious, like, how do you advise leaders who you know, want to make some strides

towards equity. But they've also been out here in the world performing, pretending that they've like, they've got the racism thing figured out?

mean about me? How are people now going to perceive me if they know that I actually don't know as much as I think that I know, or a lot of times, honestly, I feel like that person hasn't even come to terms with themselves, they haven't even been honest enough with themselves, to be able to say, I actually don't know all of these things, they are just trying to ride on the comfort of, I'm not a bad person. I know, I'm not a bad person, I know these things here. And I'm just going to use

that. Because I feel like that is enough. Because it's scary. It is so scary to look within yourself and bring out what you have been taught as the norm. And the main thing that I want to say is just like give yourself grace, all of us have to go through this experience I already mentioned like I had to go through that experience to of just saying like, what was I internalizing? What have I been taught? Who have who has taught me that? And how can I then lean

into something else? Right, and this is an ongoing experience. There's like, oh, shit, there's that too. Oh, my God, like, for me, like 2020 was like, understanding my own internalized anti blackness, because of the way that I was raised. Right. And I say that because I'm half African American and half Cuban American football, half. And so in, in, keep wanting to say Hispanic, because I'm like, that's the way

that I say it in English. In Latina countries, it is very normal, for anti blackness to be a thing, no matter what color of your skin, it is like my mom is the same exact shade of brown as I am. But then when immigrants come to the US, it's about not being like the African Americans, right? Like, don't put me in the same box as the African Americans, because they are this. And this is how I was raised, even though my father is African American. So I had to do my own internal anti blackness.

I guess like searching and understanding, what am I internalized? And how can I move differently? Then years later, it's like, oh, my gosh, now there's that internalized fat phobia? How do I now undo all of that, there is just always so much because of the society that we're in. But the only way that we can allow ourselves to even explore that is by giving ourselves grace.

And what I appreciate is the way that you brought up grace, because it's not about shaming yourself, it's about seeing, and understanding where those things come from, where those those histories of racism and oppression come from. And then I think the most important piece is the accountability of it all. Because I see so much. And we were talking about this before we hit record of you know, I did a training and 2020 I'm good.

And, you know, just in that example you gave, it's like the work is never ending, unfortunately, you know, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'll be 80. And I'll be like, I got it. I figured it out. But like, as long as we're in a system that is still oppressive. We constantly have to be questioning, relearning, you know, and, and hopefully changing the structures. So can you talk to me about, you know, how do we continue to practice healthy accountability without

guilt? And how do we, how do we how do we continue to be persistent I don't want to say resilient but persistent in that pursuit of, of justice and of anti racism, how can we hold ourselves accountable to continuing to do this

one particular thing. And then you're just gonna ride on that, which is where I feel like a lot of people are when you were talking about just like, almost like pretending to be as, as woke as they think that they are, they finally gotten rid of that guilt. But sometimes the guilt can make it so terrible that you don't even want to address this anymore. And then that guilt is just simmering, they're like a pot on a stove, just waiting and waiting until it boils over when another event

happens. And then it triggers the guilt again, and you're just in this terrible shame spiral. And honestly, like, I look at this work as just like, what I really want to see change, like, I get so excited when I think about what it could actually look like for things to change, because I feel like I am looking at this work from the lens of obviously like the the CEOs and the leaders that I work with.

And then I'm also looking at this from the lens of just the experiences that I've had, the experiences that my friends have had. And we talk about that even more now. And it's just when I hear their experiences at first I'm like angry, because I love my people, right? And I get angry, but then I'm just like, This is why you're doing this,

you're doing this. So hopefully they don't have to experience this again, hopefully 20 years down the line, we don't have to experience and so when we can just go to work, and do our job and come home, like we all just want to do, hopefully we can just exist in life in a normal way. And that really, really excites me. And it's not even just like this, this deep excitement that I'm always feeling every single day, but just having that vision of what am I actually doing this for?

And so I would challenge you like with the work that you do and the lens that you serve this world already? What would it look like if that piece of the world were inclusive? How would that black trans woman be able to interact and engage in that world and thrive? If you continue to do this work?

offering it to all of us. And then I my only ask is, you know, where can people find you? You know, where can people follow you? And what, if any, any projects or opportunities you've got coming up soon? You know, what would you want to share with our audience? If there's anything before we wrap?

a workshop. It's not just doing a series of workshops, it's about really doing that internal journey of shifting the way that we've been taught to see the world shifting the way that we've been interacting in the world. And although I always obviously offer the workshops and whatnot, because people have to just dip their toes in sometimes. But the work that I do is that one on one coaching that one on one consulting to

help you get there deeply. So then you can expand everything that you're touching and shifting those systems and the places where you have power. So that is just a like an evergreen offer that's always there. But that's what that looks like.

their ideas and edification. And I am grateful to all of you for sticking with an episode that is so poignant and so important. During this time, more than ever, you know, we are living in a time where there are so many tough topics that need addressing. But what I love about this audience is you all are the kinds of folks who are willing to show up and do this

kind of work. And you are lifelong learners who are not in this for your ego, but you understand that, you know, we all have more we could be learning, especially when it comes to topics of systemic oppression. So my challenge to all of you this week is to just really consider, you know, beyond how you're doing this work in your own personal life, how are you doing the work of anti racism through your leadership and through your

company? And how could you bring this more to the surface in the ways that you share so that others feel seen and safe in the culture you're creating. I also, of course, encourage you to follow Alyssa on social Of course, we'll put all of her details in the show notes. But I am so grateful to you all, for being a part of this conversation with us. And for

passing it on as well. Please put it in the hands of another entrepreneur, and or individual who you know, would be impacted and inspired by this conversation. All right. I'm so grateful to each and every one of you. Thank you for coming back here to join me on finding fearless and I will see you in a few weeks take care you've just listened to another episode of the finding fearless podcast. Finding free list is available on all streaming platforms and is released every

other Wednesday. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform so that other people can find us. You can also learn more about how to become a sponsor of the show and about our company fearless foundry by visiting fearless foundry.com/finding Fearless if you have a minute also make sure to connect with us on social media platforms by looking for us and our handle at Fearless foundry. This episode of finding fearless was produced and edited

by fina valance suela. And all music is owned by premium beats. This has been a fearless foundry production. All audio is recorded and owned by fearless foundry. I'm your host Madeline Reeves, and I will be back to chat with you all in two weeks.