Forgive and Forget

My name is Mark Mariana. I'm a storyteller on Find and Tell. I'm Filipino and live on Diric Land. I'd like to recognize the traditional custodians of this continent whose land was stolen nearly two hundred and fifty years ago, in particular the Cama, Eagle and Uruanderie people whose land this podcast was recorded on, and we extend our respect

Hello, I'm Jamila Risby.

Welcome back to Find and Tell, the search for the next generation of Australian storytellers. Each week, our storytellers go head to head to see who finds and tells the best story, and every win brings them a step closer to being crowned the Find and Tell Champion and winning the grand prize. We've now met all four of our storytellers, Mark, Naar, Kate and Ben and the competition.

Is starting to heat up.

Honestly, I have been blown away by the quality of the stories that each of them has created so far. It's genuinely incredible when you remember that they have never made.

Anything like this before.

Okay, so far Mark and Ben have each taken home a win that we.

Are far from finished.

Today we have a new theme, Forgive and Forget. First up to tackle the challenge is Mark.

When we last.

Heard from Mark, he told a really beautiful story about spirituality and sexuality.

Let's see what story he can find for us this time. Mark, welcome back to find and tell.

I am so excited to be back.

Okay, we've done this. We've done this once. It's out in the world. So you've had that feeling of it's about to happen, and it's happened.

You're ready to go again.

I'm so ready.

I think you're ready too. This week's theme is forgive and Forget, so we're not we're not pulling any punches forgiven forget. What was your first reaction when you saw that written on the page?

Oh my goodness, I fell to the ground. I was sobbing.

No.

I you know, it's such an interesting topic, interesting theme, and I think something that a lot of maybe new adults are experiencing, or just anyone in any stage of their life, you know, having to let go is such a hard thing. Having to feel your emotions and go through them is so difficult. So I so many thoughts came into my mind when I got the theme. But I'm excited with how it turned out. I'm so happy with how it turned out.

All right.

Well, without further ado, let's hear your second story on the theme of forgive and forget, Let's go.

There are many moments in Australian television history that had the whole country unbaited breath. We had Kathy Freeman's golden run in the two thousand Olympics to the Tillies penalty shootout against France. But back in two thousand and three, all eyes were on Australian idol.

Has My the Decision?

The live Grand final amassed over three million viewers.

The winner of Australie Not in Gossip s.

The debut season alone, tore through our country's music industry, setting a new standard and method for the attainment of musical fame. If you were too young to remember, idle Mania had Australia in a chokehold. This wasn't your run of the mill reality TV show. This was why two K stardom. It was glitz and glamour and fame and fortune, and the contestants became instant superstars. The series itself had produced some of Australia's biggest names in the music industry

However, Cosma rescently that you would like to say, I'd like.

To thank all my supporters and the Australian public for believing in me. I've been extremely humbled by the support that you have shown me.

Where were you the night Costumer Divito withdrew from Australian Idol.

Unfortunately, I have a temporary condition that's affecting my voice. It's forced me to make the decision to leave the competition.

It was the worst case scenario. Costumer Divito, the singer adored by everyone, was pulling out of the competition just as she was becoming an unstoppable force. Australian Idol is once in a lifetime opportunity, and all these years later, I still think about it and I think about Costomer. Where is she now?

It's so hot, isn't it? Oh my god today? Are you okay? You look like you're sweating as well.

Yes, my gorgeous, beautiful sheen because I've got to shut off the fan for the recording purposes. That's showbiz, baby, I know, I know, yes, that is the Costomer de Vito, the legend herself. It was her husky, deep voice that caught everyone's attention. During the very first season of Australian Idol. She was so popular that she was brought back as a wild card after an early knockout.

When I came back as a world card and then I got into top twelve, it was like go go, Go, go go.

However, a hefty run of Belty ballads soon caught up to the twenty six year old.

This has been the most difficult decision of my life. But I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to give one and that my voice is gonna hold up.

Costomer still remembers the point in the competition where her voice started to slip away.

And then every week I was noticing, what's happening with my voice is getting really deep. It was there, but it was just deeper and deeper and deeper. It was vocal nodules.

This is every singer's nightmare. Vocal nodules are benign folds and lesions that can sometimes grow on your vocal chords. It affects both your singing and speaking voice, drastically changing your natural vocal tone. Amidst her rise up the ranks, Cossomo was sent to a doctor who soon confirmed various small nodual growths caused by vocal overuse.

You either rest it or you keep going and they get hard and then you have to have surgery.

And as soon as you said surgery, I'm like Julie Andrews.

Julie Andrews, the songbird slash actress from the famed Sound of Music, had surgery to remove vocal nodules in ninety nine.

A routine procedure that I was told would not be threatening to my vocal cords.

The procedure scarred her vocal cords and she was never able to sing the same again. So at this point, Costumer was at a crossroads. She was given an ultimatum, leave the competition and heal, or push on and risk injuring herself permanently.

No, we're not doing that. It was hard. It was hard. I was crying when I was reading that speech.

And again, a big, big kiss and hugs to everyone who's supported me. You have humbled me and I'm forever grateful for what you've done.

For Costomer, running the risk of losing her voice forever was not an option. In the end, she decided to leave Australian Idol to enter a course of recovery that would get her back on track, but off the winning one. Costumer was a fan favorite and many thought she would win, but then her world fell apart, and her hopes and aspirations for her singing career soon followed.

Because in that moment, you just feel like your whole world is crumbling. That's what it felt like in that moment. That was extremely difficult. The day after I withdrew, I remember I had to hide out in the hotel because all the media, it was such a hype after I left, and for me, I felt like I had lost an opportunity.

The year after Idole was the hardest for Customer. The songshis that hit an all time low, and with her future up in the air, she struggled with her sense of self.

It took a good year, I think before my head was on straight. But even then, a lot of reflection, a lot of mourning. I wasn't able to watch any singing competition for years, and then that whole year I had this paranoia that they were going to come back. So every time I sang as a psychological component that comes with it also because you feel, oh my god, it's.

Going to come back again. I'm going to lose my voice again.

The series finale had taken center stage and for a period of time, Costomer was nowhere to be found. While everyone wondered where she had gone, the show moved on without her, and she used this moment of quiet to find herself and her voice again.

As soon as I got off the show, it was like, Okay, I'm in India, Now what's my next step? And that's when I went, you know what, I had to be part of the Idol tour. I had to start speech therapy, so I was doing that twice a week. I was going to a vocal coach who was familiar with singers who had nodules, and it was just rehabilitation. It was just hardcore rehabilitation, no singing, just working on getting it back to where it was.

Costomer threw herself into recovery. While she couldn't win this series, she hit back stronger during the Top twelve tour. The two thousand and four concert was Costumer's return to the Australian Idol stage and in their opening group number, she was back as a crowd favorite. So after all this, where is the diva? Now? What about Costomer? Having recently dropped a duet with Nolsey, the indie artist has hot plans for her music ventures.

It's a project that I've been working on since last year. I can't say too much at the moment, but I'll be touring towards the end of the year and it's very exciting and you need to come. I promise, I promise you'll love it. I promise, but I'm very excited about it.

While there was a hard decision leaving Idol, there was no other choice. She took the route that in short, she would be able to keep singing for the rest of her life. This was simply a hurdle, one that she triumphantly conquered with a lot of time and care.

I love my power ballads. The depressing power ballads are my thing. I think that's the Italian in me. When you sing an Italian and you sing an Italian ballad, it's very different to when you do it in English, just just so much more passionate, and you know the words and the lyrics.

It's just different. I absolutely love it, love it.

When I interviewed Costomer, I was starstruck. We share a love for singing, and I too dreamed of being a pop star. I mean, who didn't. I couldn't imagine being on the rise she was on and then having to let that go. When I spoke to Costomer, I was taught an important life lesson and it had nothing to do with music.

The thing I guess that got me through it was just the It was the old Wise title of you know everything happens for a reason, because you know, there's a reason why you weren't meant to go all the way, There's a reason why this has happened.

I wouldn't have met my husband, I wouldn't met my daughter.

You know, being an independent artist has been incredible.

I've always done what I've wanted to do.

Do you have a message for any fans who, even twenty years on, are still heartbroken over your Australian ad or verdicts? I myself included, I'm one of them.

You're gonna make me very emotional just by saying that. I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you from.

The bottom of my heart, even twenty one years on, that you're all still standing by me. And every time I post something, you're on social media, You're there.

You're supporting me.

I'm here because of you, and I used to say that back then. Also, I'm here because you've voted for me, because you fiercely voted for me and stood by me, and you're still here today.

I love to sing, but the support that I get from fans is just beautiful and it's truly truly a gift. It's truly a gift.

And I thank you from the bottom of my heart still being here.

Thank you, thank you.

I think sometimes we put too much importance on winning. What I used to see as a heartbreaking withdrawal, I now see as the importance of letting go of the life and a path that's simply not meant for us. Sure, in life will miss some chances, but there will always be others.

The human spirit's amazing.

Only when you go through the lows can you really learn about yourself and learn about life and how to get through it.

Otherwise you don't learn anything.

You have to go through the lows, and it makes you a different person on the other side of it, and you wouldn't change that.

When you get to the other side, it's great. It's just through the storm that's really really hard. I'm forty seven. I feel like I've let a lot of things go.

When you reach forty it's just like, yeah, kay, I feel like I'm still learning about myself.

But I am stronger.

I am stronger, and I do know a lot more than what I did when I was twenty six years old.

When the time comes and the opportunities you were meant for are come your way, there's only one thing we can do.

We've got to rise, and that through the sky. We've got to rise over.

Mountain.

Hey, Mark, that was super fun and wild in its degree of nostalgia. Like I'm still a bit like I don't think I have thought about Cosmo Divido in a very long time, but I was equally Australian idol obsessed that first season.

Yes, it was iconic, it was it was it. It changed the nation, it really did. It swept us away.

I remember borrowing my mum's phone so I could text vote for twenty cents or whatever it costs me on a smith. But don't let me get get stuck there. I hadn't thought about her in a long time. Why this story? Why do you still think about her?

So it's really interesting. This episode was meant to go in a really different direction. I had some other people in mind, but at its core, I really did want to talk about this proximity to fame, this proximity to fortune, to this like what many people consider to be the jackpot of success, being so close and then not reaching it, not hitting it, not winning, being second best. You know,

Were nervous about speaking to a cosma.

Yeah, I was a little starstruck. I was very starstark speaking to her. But then as we eased into it, it was like, no, we're not. This isn't an interview. This is two adults having a conversation about the realities of life and that things won't always go the way that we want it to go, and how that is completely fine and completely okay.

You created a great redemption arc, you know, a sense of hope came through with Costomer's story. Did you have that episode arc planned out from the beginning? Did you know where you were going or what did it look like as it sort of shifted and remolded itself.

I wanted it to be that she had won in her own way, that she had forgiven this incredibly massive, big deal that had happened to her, to forget it in her own way, not completely disregard it, but to just let go in her own way and then thrive. I wanted that to be the third aspect of that forgive and forget theme, because it just it doesn't require a trophy it doesn't. Winning doesn't require a certain thing.

Mark.

Congratulations, another great episode, and I'm going to do an extra shout out for the ending there.

Coming out on.

Rise Up, Gosh, you made me feel very, very old. But then I was like bopping along. You know, I've got to listen to this for the first time in a studio. But I think if I'd been listening to this, you know, with my EarPods running down the street, I still would have broken out into a really big, fat grin hearing that song again.

So thank you forgive me that.

Of course you're not gone.

That's two stories down for Mark, well done. Kate is back with her second in Just a Moment. This is Find and Tell. I'm Jamilla Risby, and this week's theme is Forgive and Forget. Our next storyteller opened her heart and revealed to the world the pain behind a really difficult breakup a stunning story, but she had stiff competition and didn't quite get the win. So let's hear what she's made for us this time.

Hey, Kate, welcome back to Find and Tell.

Thanks so much for having me Jamilla.

We're about to hear your second story, but before we get to that, I want to get to know a little bit more about you beyond the beautiful vulnerability you shared with us last week about your breakup.

What do you do for a job?

So I'm actually a visual artist, and so it's been really cool for me because I think like how you approach creating art with your hands and how you create art.

For your ears is really different.

How for those of us be on the obvious.

Well, I think for me, a lot of it is about feeling, and when I'm painting, I really follow colors and motifs and things.

That feel like home, that feel special.

I think for a long time, when I was creating like physical art, I thought that I had to paint in a very particular way, And more recently I've realized that No, I just love sparkly, tacky things.

So that's what I'm going to focus on.

And so I guess with the creative process, Like for this podcast, it's super different in terms of how you piece together a story and how you make things make sense. But I'm also bringing that essence, like I'm just following the feelings that I want to explore and little sparkly things that bring me joy.

To This week's theme is Forgive and Forget. What are we about to hear?

Yeah, to be honest, this was a really really difficult podcast episode to create, I think because I have a really difficult relationship with forgiveness. Yeah, so I saw Forgive and Forget and I was like, really, do we have to forgive and forget? But I guess also when they gave us their themes, the intention was that we would create three separate stories, and so I decided to mess with the format a little bit. And so this one's also about that.

Well, that is your right, my friend, and you get to throw some glitter at it if you want to. I can't wait to hear your second contribution to find and Tell on Forgive and Forget.

I feel like Persian, you can cover this up. Persian taciness is coming in in a big way.

Oh that's my aesthetic entirely.

It's really just cool now.

That's parasitosif she's one half of the band Vallas Alps, and I'd originally wanted to talk to her because her music had a big impact on me during a really difficult breakup last year, But somehow, maybe because we're both Persian, within minutes, I was instead pitching her own music video. So there's my suggestion for a future video clip where you just get thirty fake Versachi bathrobes and try and incorporate them.

Yes, that is fantastic. Well, I'm actually working on a solo project where I'm using music to connect to my Iranian heritage, so it's indie pop kind of songwriting with Iranian instrumentation.

When I started listening to Valas Alps, I had no idea that Parisa was Persian. But as I talked to her, I realized that we had this shared experience. Both of our families had actually fled Iran because of the nineteen seventy nine revolution.

And its stories around the revolution and my family and life as a migrant. When I think about the music videos, I always think groups of people wearing something particular. So the fact that you just said that maybe is linked somehow you read it my mind.

I'll bring the Versati roads. You read the music.

I felt so linked to Parasite in the last year, even before I knew about our shared heritage and our love of fake Versati robes, I had thought that we had this shared experience of heartbreak because one of their songs, You and I, it really felt like it was written about my breakup.

It's funny because we have never written, and almost intentionally, we've never tried to write a traditional breakup or love song. But we have this rule between us, which is, if we write a song and it can be interpreted as a breakup song, then we've won. Because love and heartbreak is so inherently human that if a song can invoke even a little bit of that feeling, then it kind of connects us all, which is a little bit sad and strange, but beautiful too.

I guess that's Parasa basically ruining my internal narrative of her work. But as we talked more, it became clear that, whether on purpose or not, this album was about heartbreak, just not in the way that I was experiencing it.

We wrote this whole album at a time where we were really struggling in our friendship, and we'd been friends for years, but we've been fighting a lot, specifically when we started to write the album, because it had been an aque of many years of not listening to each other, not shining light on each other's strengths in the creative process, not being true friends at different points, not forgiving each other, not letting go, and it kind of all built up

That friendship was between Parisa and the other half of valas Alps, David. I'm sorry they chose to do mediation. They went through weeks of it, wading through their problems and trying to rebuild their relationship.

We built completely new processes, We learnt a lot about each other and continued on with writing the album with that newfound clarity. We ended up being able to finish the song You and I and realized that You and I, plus half of the other songs we were working on, had somehow been a reflection of our tumultuous relationship.

The problem with me it's you.

And.

During the worst moments of my breakup, those lyrics really spoke to me and they helped me to process my reality, and now it made sense why. But it also made me curious about how artists, how musicians like Dallas Alps, they use their music to process their emotions.

When you're creative, you're vulnerable and you're putting your heart out on the table. At least for us to be truly creative means to do that in some way, and you're showing each other half ideas, new ideas, and when the relationship wasn't strong, those ideas would be shut down. There'd be a lot of disappointment. And then when we worked on our process, the opposite happened, where we were able to realize how much much good came from creativity and creating together.

I love hearing about two people who've been able to rebuild and repair broken friendship and turn things around.

There's a song called turn It Around, and it's about forgiveness and about that moment where you realize you need to do better in a relationship, doesn't matter what the relationship is, friendship, parent, child relationship, love like a love relationship, and you're kind of looking for that person and hoping you're able to turn things around. And it's about forgiveness and seeking forgiveness, and we realized after mediation that a

War with each other. To break Parison and David were able to forgive each other to heal together, and through that process creates some incredible music which I then listened to when I was going through my breakup. So of course I just had to ask Parisa about what tools she thought I could try and use to forgive my ex.

Oh. Man, I think there's elements of seeing the other person in a completely new way that's really hard, and I feel like that almost literal shift in the mind, and it takes constant reminding of who that person could be in a positive way so that you can let go. Because I've realized, even with David, the hardest parts were showing him love in my brain when I needed to, even though it was really hard, so that I could let go of something he'd done or that I'd done.

It's really frustrating. But honestly, I don't know if I can take Paris's advice. I don't know if I can let go of my breakup. I don't think I can find it within me to forgive. I thought it was because a broken romantic relationship is really different from a broken friendship. But actually, as we started talking about how she was exploring her Iranian heritage through her music, something else clicked.

We do have a shared.

Experience of heartbreak. It's just for a place and not for a person.

I actually didn't really think about my Iranian heritage at all growing up until I got to my late twenties and I had this sudden hit in my heart. I don't know where it came from where. I just felt like there was something missing, something I needed to connect to. And I realized I'd never asked my family about their stories of leaving Iran, and I'd never asked specific stories around emotional things like heartbreak during the revolution or what it felt like to lose a sibling at the hands

Until she said those words.

I'd never thought of my family's experience of leaving Iran as heartbreak, but it is, and it's framed how I've approached all forms of heartbreak. It's made me believe that I shouldn't forgive what's happened in Iran or what's happened in my breakup, and then I definitely shouldn't forget. But here was Pariser, who had a completely different relationship with forgiveness, whose family had a similar experience to mine of leaving Iran.

And the songs are about snippets of these stories me trying to kind of convey those emotions. So it's been like the whole in my heart that I was looking to feel. Honestly, it sounds so cheesy, but it started to feel. And the longing that I have to know where I come from has slowly started to kind of ease, and I feel like a tiny bit more connected. And it's been such a beautiful process and emotional process.

I think I'm finally ready to give in too, forgiveness, because I want so deeply for the whole in my heart to fill, So I'm ready to take Paris's advice, but first I think I need to start with me. She said that I have to make a literal shift in my mind and that it takes constant reminding. So I just want to say to the future version of myself that listens back to this, I hope that you're happy.

And that you got that Vasati robe.

I also hope that you've learned to forgive yourself, that you haven't cut yourself off from your capacity to love because you're afraid. And I hope that you remember they're getting through this. It honestly means you can get through absolutely anything, because that's the one thing I don't want to forget.

Firstly, I love the reference to the Vasati robes. But one of the things that struck me listening to that, Kate, it's what a beautiful artistic sense you have of I would almost say symmetry between the two episodes we've heard so far, because in the previous episode where we got to hear your first piece of work, we got to hear all these voice notes about your breakup, so you all almost were listening to past you, and now here you are leaving messages for future you. There's some big,

Yeah?

So I think I got my three themes and they just slotted in so nicely with each other, and so yeah, I did have that that journey in mind, and it felt really special because for me, it's really it's about not only me trying to find forgiveness and find a way to go through that process, but it's also about creativity and it's also about art, and there's something so special about creating a podcast that is a creative process and then exploring some of the ideas that you're thinking

So that felt very special for me.

Yeah.

I think sometimes for podcasters, particularly new podcasters, music can be a bit of an afterthought. You know, you tell the story, you make the thing, and then you're like, oh, I got to shove some music on it. Different case for this one, even if that was your approach, right, because you've got this bank of music to work with, how did you go or about making those decisions?

Basically, in the interview, I asked her if she would feel comfortable with us using some of ouris Alps's music in the episode because for me, it's so deeply emotional and it's so deeply connected to how I felt at these particular moments, and so I wanted to create that for the audience too.

Is there anything you change listening back to it now.

I think I'm always a bit nervous talking about Iran, To be completely frank, I mean there's two parts to that. I think one is like, I'm biracial, so I'm half Australian and I'm half Irni, and so anytime I talk about that experience of being Persian, there is a small part of me that has like a little bit of imposter syndrome about like whether I should be taking up space talking about this experience that isn't mine but is mine.

That's a lot to carry.

Yeah, it is. But I think also like if you don't talk about it. That's part of the problem.

Thank you, Kate, Thanks for having Michama.

So who told the best forgive and Forget story. I'm going to share my decision with the winner in just a moment. This is fine and tell, and the theme this week was forgive and forget. Mark's episode was a whole lot of fun, especially for someone who absolutely grew up living for Australian idol and was personally devastated when Cosuma had to leave. I think it was entertaining, and it was nostalgic, and we had a really strong tie

That takes real skill.

It's easy to get invested and focused on a band that you love or a singer that you love, but if you've never heard of someone, it's hard to care about them quickly, and Kate's helped us to achieve that. If I had any suggestions for Kate for future is to just make sure she focuses on a single theme. This week, it was very much a story of a breakup, but then when we got more of Kate's family life and her family history in Iran, I then kind of wanted to hear that story and it was hard to

That's so exciting, Dalla.

I feel like I should have brought us the Sadi bathrobes to wear in celebration.

I mean, I might take the win back conditional win.

So it turns out that making a decision every week, folks, is not getting any easier. But you're allowed to argue with me. You're allowed to make the case for who you think I should have chosen. Get in touch and follow along at find and Tell dot com dot AU. Don't miss our next episode. Just press follow in your podcast app as we draw closer to.

Crowning our Find and Tell Champion.

Find and Tell is a coproduction between iHeart Australia and the black Cast podcast network. Black Cast empowers First Nations people and people of color to reclaim their narratives, strengthen cultural identity, and contribute to a more inclusive Australia by showcasing exciting emerging talent from Australian communities.