[Music]
it's over 9,000 [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome super Elite Warriors to final forum a podcast for the discussion of all things Dragon Ball I am your host jelly and Elite recruiting member of the Frieza force on a mission of find the best Warriors from across the Galaxy to join the greatest army of all time and I am joined by as always by my new recruit co-host this is the bikini oh man this is bad this is so so bad I really don't
see how you what you don't see how there's a 100ft tall plant that stinks like death trying to eat us and you don't see how that's bad well okay I'll Grant that's not great but I really don't see how that's any different from where we were when we landed on this horrible Rock how is it not different are you not understanding there's a giant plant trying to eat us that's just it as I understand it this thing is basically been trying to eat us since the moment we landed
that's shockingly not that bad a point I knew you'd see it my way listeners the plant has remained rooted to the spot where it burst forth but our ship has not responded to our auto call homing device and come to us so we've been hiding out behind a pile of rubble since you last heard from us I still don't understand how sometimes podcast episode things come out when it's been weeks in between things happening and somehow when it's been 2 minutes given our
adventures over the last few years there is much you do not understand well you're one to talk meaning what well I hardly think it's a fruitful area of discussion we need to figure out how to get past that thing and get out of here why can't we just fly past it remember how I have a connection to the bird people of this planet ah yes the Unexplained connection that were this a scripted show would serve as a a way for you to have an exposition dump that would assist us in explaining the
situation and why we can't go with the easy solutions right does that have any relevance to the current situation well we've been lucky in that we actually suppressed our power levels when this thing bursts from the ground because it can detect key any attempt by us to power up and fly around it will be detected and you see how tall that thing is its root system is massive and it has almost total control of every single piece of itself it would fling Roots out
of the ground at us and the instant we tried to do anything and you know all of this from a feeling you had when connecting to these bird people I mean I guess so that's rather convenient I don't see how you realize this means we'll have to do our best to sneak around from outcropping of rubble to outcropping of rubble slowly with our power level suppressed in order to make it back to our ship absolutely I do and it'll be perfect because it will give us time to dive into this week's topic and
this week we are taking a look at the final five maybe episodes we just talked about it's not like we just talked about it at all but no no not at all the final five episodes of The Original Dragon Ball and that's episodes 149 through 153 so let's uh let's do that recap starting with episode 149 titled dress and Flames so Goku's just won the first Tenkaichi budokai what's the world's strongest fighter going to do next discuss the intricacies of in-laws I guess that's a little unexpected anyway
uh Goku and Chi-Chi are off to see Ox King and begin their life together in wetted Bliss surely nothing can go wrong I was I also learned today that oxen got money big Swanky castle and all the food Goku can eat speaking of which Ox King attributes Goku's appetite to his grandpa Gohan interesting considering where things are going to go in the future they start disc discussing particulars about the wedding ceremony and Ox King presents Chi-Chi with her mother mother's wedding dress the tragedy
strikes when an earthquake turns Ox King's Castle into a volcano everyone evacuates but the wedding dress was left behind Ox King goes in search of the frock but the lav lava spouts prevent Goku from following Goku tries to stuff the Flames with the Kamehameha wave much like Master roshi did the last time but it doesn't work at this point Ox King has found the dress but finding an exit is proving to be a bit trickier he tells Goku to find the Bano fan uh but Goku
recalls roshi threw it away and nobody knows where it is sounds like a job for our favorite geriatric psychic fortune teller Baba sadly Baba has a cold so her GPS is a bit on the fritz they head east uh as it's the only clue they have so where are go are Goku Baba and Chi-Chi henceforth known as team bansho fan headed well it seems like a pretty generic Village but for some reason oolong is there wait a minute that's not really oolong I guess all pigs just look the
same to Goku so Octagon Village which is the place that they have now arrived has never heard of the bansho fan but there is a bansho spring and it cures all ailments convenient Chi-Chi decides against a dip but oolong’s relatives aren't fans of that idea so they come up with a ploy to send Goku on a wild goose chase the next Valley Goku gets turned around and in his search ultimately finds the bansho fan in the octagon shaped spring where oolong’s entire Village is kind of perving on Chi-Chi
it's more Goku just thinks it's the bansho fan as he's like flying overhead it turns out it's actually like the drain plug for the spring which doesn't really make a lot of sense but sure let's just go with that uh he also finds some mancho glyphs on a column in the in the dra spring and Baba says that she's seen these same images before at KEH house and that brings us to episode 150 titled the fire eater uh at KEH house we learned that the rest of the crew still
haven't returned from the tournament because I guess everything that has happened up to this point happened within like the first few hours after the tournament so they they're actually on a plane flying home at this like nobody's home right now it's just the turtle Goku explains the situation to the turtle and his name is Kame you blackhead assists it by digging through Roshi's closet ew fortunately they do get some info they must gather the feathers of the fire eating bird of
Mount kiwi Goku and CH Chi-Chi blast off to find said bird and have a fun Montage along the way Mount kiwi much unlike its name is an active volcano Our Heroes investigate some lava caves for this bird when they hear like a rumbling and this like large lizard pops out but it turns out to be pretty Prett friendly and accepts head Pats in order to pass but at this point we learned that Shu and Mai have actually been tailing Goku and Chi-Chi and unfortunately for them
Mr lizard is a light sleeper further investigation leads Goku and Chi-Chi to a giant egg that's like hooked up to all this weird machinery and they also find an old man who's a convenient source of exposition 40 years ago a violent eruption of the volcano killed the last fire eating bird and this egg is still kind of like waiting to hatch now that we've gotten plot out of the way Shu and my turn up to steal the egg they also reintroduce her favorite villain Pilaf he
wants to sell the egg on the black market and then use the money to take over the world well give him I'll give him points for perseverance I guess Chi-Chi surrenders herself as a hostage uh and gushes over Pilaf’s cute little baby hat Shu and Mai finally give Goku a good look and start to have a slow realization but before they can say anything Chi-Chi knocks them both out when Goku then Goku punches Pilaf’s like Bowl machine into the side of the volcano and it just explodes but a new
Challenger approaches the fire breathing bird that was dead is not actually dead it was just kind of like stuck in like a magma bubble or something but a new a new like uh eruption ruptures the cave wall and it pops out and it starts to uh approach the egg which then hatches both these birds then run off apparently these birds are flightless uh and Goku blasts everyone out of the side of the volcano the bird's even thoughtful enough to drop some feathers which is
what they were looking for but when they try to touch them they disappear turns out the info that they got from the turtle was bunk and it was just some fantasy story that roshi wrote in his spare time I guess oh well luckily the old man does know where the fan is I think Ice Mountain Here We Come Oh and it looks like we're not done with Pilaf either and that's going to bring us to episode 151 outrageous octagon uh Goku and shii approach Ice Mountain and it
lives up to its namesake a sudden winter storm knocks them into the forest Homestead of the Octagon woman she gives us some backstory on the mountain it hates women there's your backstory uh whenever a woman tries to climb it a huge blizzard appears and and nobody ever returns alive they also ask her about the Bano fan but she's never heard of it apparently there was some confusion over her name her name's not the Octagon woman it's the teeth argone woman anyway no bansho fan but the snow
at the top of the mountain is cold enough to freeze fire so it sounds perfect Goku flies off armed only with the skin of one of the sentient animal people of this world I think I hope not but you never know meanwhile Chi-Chi will train in the deadly art of wely Duties Pilaf also makes his way to the mountain and suffers the same fate as Goku and Chi-Chi earlier however they crash on the mountain itself as opposed to like in the forest next to it guess that's what you get for being
Progressive and hiring women instead of making them wives they crash land on the mountain and Goku runs into them while trying to free their ship their missiles freeze midair means Goku is in the right place the snow is cold enough in fact to freeze fire he toys with them for a little bit and then explains the curse POF banishes Mai for being a feminist and all the bad things stop happening Pilaf’s Ambush on Goku is nearly successful until Mai shows back up to
undo the patriarchy as Goku tries to bring the snow down from the mountain Chi-Chi happens to stumble upon the bansho fan mistaking it for the dust pan good thing too is the snow didn't survive the trip remember kids if you want good things to happen to you be a housewife POF swoops in to steal it but Falls victim to his own ignorance again uh toothless lady throws in some honey and her congratulations as well for finding the bansho fan they get the fan back to fry pan Mountain but turns out
it's unable to put out the Flames what are our heroes going to do that brings us to episode 152 titled The Mystery of the Dark World so the bansho fan didn't work now what Baba appears seemingly out of nowhere to inform Goku that the real reason the fire started is due to the eight-fold furnace and the Bano fan was used to Fan the Flames of that furnace so of course they're not going to put them out now oh yeah our only chance now is to climb Mount goio and ask the peper
to turn down the thermostat dads everywhere can be heard rejoicing in the background so where is Mount goio on the other side of the world of course but that's not all it's a mystical place that is connected to the afterlife and guarded by evil spirits the perfect mission for the world's best martial artist and owner of his own Flying Cloud we get some nice travel shots and before you know it our heroes are at the top or at the mountain gate Chi-Chi has the
bright idea of calling the Flying Eagles to fly them to the top of Mount dun but kinto’un doesn't show up before long Goku is faced with five Samurai Warriors he attempts to face them in battle but they prove to be a fair bit tougher than they look their speed makes them impossible to hit and their attacks are tough to dodge Goku takes this all in stride however and when kamehameha may later they've been blown to bits you until the bits fly back together and make a giant
Stone Golem that's okay though because the Bano fan is his weakness apparently in response a giant dragon shows up and Samurai return in much greater numbers and this time armed with bow and arrows to Pelt Our Heroes with valleys volleys of arrows the two are separated and Chi-Chi tries to get Goku to follow her to an idyllic Field of Flowers assuming CU she assumes there's like no monsters there uh but Goku notices something his injuries from earlier weren't real he
pulls another operation swallowed hole and we learn that this has all been an illusion to keep them from their goal now that they know the truth can they find the eight-fold furnace well of course and even better the peper is grandpa Gohan well whoops nope that was just a bad assumption he's just a part-timer the real peper is a giant woman that loves carbs nice Goku asks to turn off the furnace but she says that can't happen or the world would literally go to hell and that brings us
to the final episode titled the end the beginning so Anan it's the name of the the peper seems completely uninterested in turning off the eight-fold furnace this makes for an uncharacteristically grumpy Goku he actually passes up the chance to eat and even knocks her fork to the ground his rudess snaps her out of her distracted State and points to and she points to the spigot I guess I guess it's it's the gas line I'm not really sure exactly what it's not really explained but it looks like a gas
line uh Goku leaps into action but Gohan gets in his way why is he against turning off the gas well you see the pan that sits on the furnace emits this Mist that floats out of the mountain and those that have passed on Earth use the Mist to reach the next world no mist no rest for the dead so why not just shut it off for a tiny bit so Ox King can escape well because it would take 200 years to relight it Chi-Chi begs for a solution but an in just attacks Goku instead the fight heats up until Goku
pulls out the bansho fan which improves anan's move mood and she offers an actual solution for once in order to fix the furnace they will need fire eating bird eggshell and octagon bee honey oh hey look at that Chi-Chi already has both of those things from their earlier Adventures but that's not all Goku will have to enter the lit furnace and patch the hole manually the idea is to use the bansho fan to beat back the flames and complete the work in the few seconds
before they return there's a number of scenes to appropriately ratchet up tension they're really kind of cut close and things are looking dire for ox King and Anan lifts the pot Goku jumps in reaches the bottom and can't find the hole oh no Goku finally checks under his feet and finds the hole Ox King's Castle is now saved but will Goku made it out of the furnace in time I'm guessing yes you know considering there's like hundreds more episodes of Dragon Ball to
go but I really like how it took two seconds for him to hit the bottom of the Furnace but it takes like two minutes for him to jump out with a tailwind and with using the power pole to accelerate him anyway well at least these shots are all gorgeous Goku makes it out and everyone Revels in their success the dress is safe the wedding goes off without a hitch and it's happily ever after from here on out or is it really these are okay episodes I mean for what they are as there's there
there's a lot that happens I mean they're they're obviously compressing a lot of stuff into each episode yeah but I one of the things that I really liked about these episodes is you're starting to see I don't know if they changed animation teams or or Studios or whatever but you're starting to see a style that's a lot more reminiscent of like the Z portion of Dragon Ball as opposed to the beginning of Original Dragon Ball and you can see them starting to make changes to get ready
for the next phase of the story yeah and these episodes all look great like you mentioned like it doesn't make sense how long it takes certain things to happen or whatever but the shots all look great so you don't really care cuz everything looks so and they and they also do a really good job of like you know ratcheting up the tension and just like uh really CU like you said it almost wouldn't sell as well having such these s these long drawn out scenes for these
different things if they hadn't attached the appropriate amount of of pressure to it I think right and filler is one of those things where there's there's me filler which I would say me filler is the stuff where like if you watch an episode and then you read the corresponding manga it almost seems like there's no difference except maybe they just hold on a certain scene for a little longer or uh a guy Powers up for longer right that to me is like the me filler that just that just stretches
stuff out without adding or taking anything away then there's the bad filler where the stuff that I don't like is a lot of that like stuff that we talked about with the popo training you're just repeating stuff that you have already done before yeah it does get kind of boring because I don't need to see Goku learn to sense key or use key he's been doing that for the other 150 episodes like yeah I don't need to see it happen more and then there's the the good filler and
this Falls more towards the good filler I think it has even though it's all filler it has some of the meh in it like it has stuff that just kind of feels too drawn out but it lands more on that good side of like these are just Adventures that are never there's there's nothing else like this really anywhere in Dragon Ball and I kind of like that it gives you like its own unique flavor I get the feeling that like the choice for these episodes was very intentional as sort of
like a call back to the beginning of what the series was yeah where it was more Adventure focused I would agree with that and so we did a whole like I did a bunch of looking around looking for this is all filler right so this isn't anything that Toriyama ever did mhm but we still always try to like to try to figure out well like why were why were these decisions made M and so in a bunch of these notes maybe we've illuminated something maybe we've gone off way down the wrong path and we're 100%
wrong but I'm gonna go with option two but there's some really cool interesting stuff so you go to this the dress in Flames episode and there's the Octagon Village and then there's this whole Arc mild obsession with octagons there's the the Octagon Village the octagon I is the is the bansho fan Lake o octagonal shaped I think it is uh it's octagon Village and then it's the bansho Springs I think the Bano spring is like the actual water is you're right when he's flying over it
is octagon shaped you're right and then there's like the episode called outrageous octagon and then there's the eight-sided furnace and all like there's like octagon Galore MH so I just did some I don't know I'll call it light Googling I guess and looked for like octagon Japan Japan's significance octagons whatever I found an interesting bit of trivia I don't know if this has anything to do with these episodes but I found it pretty interesting a zuchi castle was one of the primary castles of Oda
Nobunaga Oda was a daow who was regarded as the first great unifier of Japan being the head of the very powerful Oda Clan who attempted to unify an under one ruler namely him in the 1560s he's got a very interesting history and life and I'd encourage you to look into it further but the absolute cliffnotes version is that he became so powerful as to dissolve the ashikaga shanet and Conquer most of hu which is Japan's main island by 1580 he was an important figure in
military tactics and fostering trade but also considered pretty ruthless as many conquerors are he would brutally suppress those who refuse to cooperate with him ultimately he was betrayed by one of his retainers in like an ambush when he was I think like praying and forced to commit seppuku while on a visit to a temple near this azuchi Castle Oda is portrayed I believe fictionally in the show Shogun which I still need to watch and I think that show that's the
FX limited series or whatever yeah the one that just recently came out yeah I think that show is like every character has a name that's just made up but their personality and their actions and everything like like kind of how things go is very much based on a real life person okay and so like if you go and look up just the and I only did this very briefly if you go and look up like the Wikipedia Shogun it'll be like this person plays this character and then in
parenthesis it'll be like based on this person who's like a real life person MH I don't know how important a role Oda has or what his counterpart is in Shogun but Shogun takes place around the time that this guy was was important and popular you know doing his thing I also right separately there was a thing there was an a clickbait article about Shogun complaining about that lack of African-American people and I was like um it's [Laughter] Japan not only that but isolationist
Japan yeah I found this really interesting thing where I'm pretty sure it was noaga was actually one of the first people to have a document Ed black retainer oh I think I've heard of him I forgot his name but it's like it's one of those things where it wasn't likely to be his actual name is the oh yeah it was probably just like a given name or something like that yeah uh yasuke yes I just um I thought that was pretty interesting like there's this this Nobunaga is one
of the first people yeah he was he was uh employed by Oda noaga he he employed one of the first black people in in like recorded Japanese history so so maybe that article actually had a point that's possible maybe there should be a character yeah in any event a zuchi castle is considered one of the most important castles in Japanese history as prior to its its construction such military Outpost which it mostly served as were strictly military in design and function
they would be these crude roughly formed structures designed only for strategic military purposes so they'd have like like dirt walls and they'd just be kind of these Mounds that would like house soldiers and and things for you know launching their next attack or Supply chains and stuff like that they wouldn't be anything more than what they needed to be gotcha Oda wanted azuchi which stood near the capital of Japan at the time which was actually Kyoto to be both
a symbol of military power and an impressive showing of wealth knowledge and civility he built it with stone and put it along important trade routes where he could have strategic eye over Kyoto but also be involved in Commerce it was a lavish 7 story high building entirely decorated by the artist kanu aoku uh it was designed to be a full Castle town and kind of like a city unto itself and Via incentivizing people to live within its walls Oda was able to build
the population of azuchi Castle City to about 5,000 people Uchi Castle is considered the Catalyst for the establishment of early modern Japanese castles and of significance here when we're talking about all these Dragon Ball episodes its uppermost floor was unique among all castles in Japan in that it was octagonal oh now can we state with any amount of City whatsoever that this Castle's unique structure and historical importance inspired someone writing on the anime team for Dragon Ball to come
up with octagons as a theme for these episodes of course we can't no no we can't at all but it's a cool parallel and and an interesting thought exercise and something I learned today I learned also when we get into the fire eater the the fire eater is this bird that lives in in this volcano in the Dragon Ball episodes well in Japan there is a bird known as the basan and this is a legendary bird of Japanese lore that is also known as the fire rooster it has a red plumage and sprits spits a
brilliantly hued fire that it is said the fire does not burn there could be some parallels here in that the boson is said to not actually spit fire or burn and is more ephemeral or ethereal in nature and if you remember you know when when Goku tries to collect the the feathers they like fall right through his hands it's said that if a human being notices or if a basan notices a human looking at it it'll vanish on the spot and the fire eater is also like it's not tangible outside the fires of
the volcano that's no maybe and then you've got like there's other like there's kind of a I don't want to say Obsession at all but there's there's a lot of like historical like Firebirds in in Japanese like folklore and Japanese fiction and the one that just instantly Springs to mind when we're talking about other you know goofy cartoons that are sort of designed for kids is the in the original 150 Pokemon there's the the legendary bird Pokemon moltres oh yes that was definitely the
one that popped into my head so so yeah so it's I mean and you know there's also like if you want to step outside of Japan there's like the Phoenix this isn't a an uncommon sort of comparison if you will yeah it's a or like it I always find that super interesting that a completely isolated culture like Japan from from ancient Greece which that's where the legend of the Phoenix come from Greece or Rome either way I don't think it matters 100% it's not Japan exactly would both of these
cultures would have this this like mythology around this legendary Firebird I find stuff like I also wonder if both of those Legends came from like a similar chain of events like you know how like uh like different urban legends for like Monsters and stuff right usually like the kernel of it is in some experience that a person had with like an animal or a unique series of events that makes them think that it's like this supernatural being so I'm wondering if there was a like a similar uh thing
that happened that that like prompted both of those things yeah that'd be interesting I wonder I mean we'll never know obviously no obviously not I do like I always think that's like so wild when cultures that are so far separated come up with such similar mythologies uh then we get into the episode outrageous octagon the old woman in if you recall to Bikini's um synopses he made a joke about she's the no the no tooth woman or something like that yeah like missing tooth or no teeth women or
something like that her her name in in in the Japanese version is hake and that name literally actually means chipped tooth ah and so I then thought this was one of those episodes so previous two episodes here I am thinking octagons is there anything with octagons and I I found something interesting fire eater I was like I there's got to be something there's there's I know there's something with the fire eater this episode I was thinking is there anything with like a
mountain and a Mountain spirit that hates women that snows when women are around I couldn't find anything specifically about mountains getting angry when women Dare To Tread on them again maybe I maybe my Google Fu was lacking I don't know but I couldn't find anything what I did find and this is one of those things where I I find this stuff very interesting when the the anime staff seemingly picks up on some of the things and trends that Toriyama himself does or
would do okay so in Japan and and I'll just State briefly and then I'll kind of read these notes a little bit more in detail but in Japan there is this sort of legend about a snow woman who causes snow storms to trap Wayward men the okay the inverse of that would be snowstorms caused by the presence of women and that's just a very Toriyama esque thing to do sure yeah taking taking something well known and sort of doing inverting it yeah doing the opposite subverting your
expectations I always find that really interesting when the anime staff does stuff like that in their Filler episodes that is like just so in line with what Toriyama would do m MH was someone just very good at picking up his his Tendencies I'd imagine so yeah or was it like a complete accident like I I just find that really fascinating like the the fact that Toriyama ultimately does reference Zoo Warriors from the Magic Mountain but the anime staff actually does first yeah find that
fascinating like they just know his tendency so well that they're like oh I bet he would like this movie like yeah I could see that definitely so yeah so there's there's this all this Japanese folklore surrounding Yuki Ona or the snow woman which is a yo-kai and we've talked about yo-kai a bunch of times go back and listen to every previous episode it's a pretty common thing for for Japanese culture this the snow woman is a yo-kai that is said to be a beautiful woman who often times tricks
people and then you can get into like the it's either intentionally or maliciously or it could be accidentally as just part of her nature into being with her and freezing to death because of her natural snowy nature this is a like a folklore story but there's a lot of like popular and pop culture examples the one that popped into my mind and then continuing to read through some of the stuff that I was reading through was also referenced and so I was like Hey I
was right was the horror Anthology Quon which I also think I've mentioned on this podcast before feel free to go back and listen to our previous you know 70 episodes and figure out exactly which one I I referenced it on I would absolutely recommend it though it's an awesome it's an awesome horror Anthology it is a bit long it's like three hours long but the segments are there's no wraparound there's no like tie-in segment so they're all random self-contained stories yes everything just stands on
its own so you can sit and watch one or two and then walk away like if you know if you don't have the three hours to commit there's a segment called woman of the snow it's awesome and it is 100% playing on this uhow no woman and then if you've ever seen the tales from the Dark Side movie which interesting factoid about that Stephen King and George Romero and Tom Savini all worked on the horror Anthology Creep Show MH they also worked and I don't know if Romero worked on
Creep Show 2 I'm going to have to double check that but I'm pretty sure Savini did as like the makeup guy and I think I think at least one of the stories was uh okay the screenplay for Creep Show 2 was written by Romero so Romero and King because some of the a lot of the stories are based on Stephen King's stories yeah and Savini all worked on the second one Tom Savini has come out and said he considers t from the Dark Side the movie to be Creep Show 3 cuz Okay Romero again worked on the
the this the screenplay for that one of the stories is from King uh I would guess that means Savini was involved somewhere in the production of it because that's he I'm pretty sure yeah he did he did some of the makeup effects and and then he said he said yeah he considers that to be Creep Show 3 and also that means if you've ever seen the movie Creep Show 3 sitting out there please avoid it at all cost it's awful uh it exists it's terrible but it it's final segment which is of the tales
from the Dark Side movie The Tales from the Dark Side movie the final segment which is also the best one is called lovers vow it has absolutely nothing to do with snow but it's Loosely based on the woman of the snow segment from Kwaidan and then also Aura Kurosawa’s dreams which I've still not seen I'm still slow working my way through the works of Akira Kurosawa dreams features a Yuki Ona as well and the Pokemon frost glass which I'm unfamiliar with because that's
got to be outside of the original 151 which are like almost the only ones that I know it definitely is but Frost last or Frost Frost lass is based on Yuki Ona so this could be again what the anime staff is playing with here with women being portents of snowstorms on this mountain who knows makes sense and that brings us to mystery of the Dark World and the end the beginning which are kind of tied to the mountain of five elements so the five elements in Japan are earth water fire wind and void in
China it's earth wood metal fire and water um in either case honey is a major component of Earth uh though fire is considered to create Earth as fire creates Ash Earth Smothers fire and is a weakening Force against it so you could probably do an entire podcast episode about the elements in Asian culture as they differ greatly from those in Western culture we concern ourselves with Form and Function with Earth fire air water and air while the Asian Concepts have more to do
with change process quality and vital Essences uh so like in Asian culture wood is not literally wood it is the essence of trees so this is a major component of daoism with the interconnected and changing nature of all things and the unification of which uh is to reunite with the Dao and that's why Goku uses honey in to patch the yeah honey is a Earthly material uh the Bano fan is based on the Banana Leaf fan from the novel Journey to the West there are many things in this show
this fan is one of the five sacred Treasures of Da T tzun I hope that's right uh who is one of the three highest dowst divinities known collectively as the three pure ones these are the three highest divinities of Orthodox Daoism connected with the primordial beginning the elements and their she separation as well as yin and yang and the creation of Nature and the natural world da tanun is associated with this third Essence when all three pure ones congregate a complete return to Dao is present
therefore one cannot achieve true Purity in Daoism without fully understanding all of the three pure ones L is often regarded as a manifestation of Da tanun and the founder of Daoism he ly uh is said to have been born before Heaven and Earth after 72 years in his mother's womb o that poor woman with the ability to speak with with the ability to speak from birth he is cons well of course he's he's already collecting Social Security by the time he anyway he is
considered to be as Eternal as the three Lights of the sun moon and stars technically he is ranked below the other two pure ones but because he is closely associated with the creation of the Physical Realm his name is mentioned more often than the other two in DS texts the fan is said to have been begotten of Heaven and Earth at the axis Mundi which in Chinese mythology is is considered the klon mountains in mythology in axis Mundy is the inflection point between Heaven and
Earth where the barrier between the two is thinnest and one can cross over between the two in Dragon Ball we might consider Korin’s Tower something of an axis Mundy As It ultimately leads to kami's Lookout which is in fact heaven where God resides now the fan is extremely large and has magical properties it is wielded by Princess iron fan who has who was depicted as being several feet taller than Sun Wukong oh sounds familiar uh the fan is said to be created at a time when chaos
divided and is of the Supreme Yin energy and thus can extinguish all fires including the fires on the Flaming mountains hm that sounds familiar as well the fan is said to create giant whirlwinds that are so powerful they can carry a man 80,000 miles if it's fanned at him the only known thing immune to the fans winds is a special Elixir which is elixir which is luckily gifted to Sun wuk Kong by the buddhis satva Ling G there's that like 80,000 800,000 8,000 8 million it's
like that it's that sort of colloquial like meaning infinite or forever yeah in the novel when sun wukong first attempts to obtain the fan princess iron fan tricks him and gives him a fake one which serves only to intensify the Flames of the fire rather than put them out which sound familiar wow we're going beat for beat here uh we also find out that princess iron fan historically has been using the real fan at some she's like altered the capacity or efficacy of it by like not swinging it
as hard as she could or like think of the idea of like pulling your punch basically and extinguishing the Flames for a short period of time on the mountains annually she does this so that people will worship her as a goddess and present her offerings in return for a short period of safety from the flames on the mountain these things all sort of conflate together in these episodes like we've just been you know pointing out all the the parallels where we see the
Flames of fry pan Mountain return the bansho fan doesn't work and then as for the design itself the bansho fan looks almost exactly like the Banana Leaf fan and there's it's basically a one-to-one comparison at this point yeah if you look up the Banana Leaf fan Journey to the West it's literally the same thing like like it's exactly they put paper on the screen and just traced over it uh I gotta get my Godzilla reference in this episode of course so axis Mundy going back to that point
about axis Mundy the recentish at this point I Believe by the time this episode comes out it'll be might be over a year old show Monarch Legacy of Monsters has the characters attempt to go into Hollow Earth and it it's like the the show is set partially in the I think 50s and partially in the modern era and in the 50s the characters are trying to go into Hollow Earth and then there's like there's ends up being like all this weird like I don't want to say time travel
nonsense but I'll say I will say time dilation nonsense right where okay when these characters go into Hollow Earth or what they think is the hollow Earth they come out and it's like a long time later that's not been a thing in the other monster verse movies if you've seen Godzilla versus Kong Godzilla blasts this like the dumbest thing ever if you seen Godzilla versus Kong Kong and the humans need to take a magical portal to get them into the hollow Earth and then later in the movie
Godzilla blasts his nuclear breath into the ground and creates a hole to the hollow Earth okay that takes Kong about five seconds to climb out of so it's it's a lot like our eight-fold furnace yeah but but in Reverse but in order to try to explain away what the show wanted to do with this like time dilation stuff they W up stating that the characters aren't actually going to Hollow Earth they're going to AIS Mundy so like axis Mundy is it's sort of a it's a general I don't want to say
colloquialism but it is a generally accepted mythological explanation for the point in any sort of religion or mythology or folklore where the afterlife and the Reg life or Heaven and Earth or the underworld and Earth come to like almost an inflection point okay that's that's the concept of an axis Mundy and then they used that name for uh a dumb Godzilla show show itself was okay kind of at least we got our Godzilla reference in so so we mentioned that the banan LEF
fan is like a one-to-one comparison and there's a whole lot of stuff that sounds super super familiar but showing that dragon ball is not a one toone comparison to Journey to the West which we've talked about a bunch over over the course of three years going on three years now is the character Anan who is actually based on Dow tanen tanun her title in Dragon Ball is actually tojiro [ __ ] it's taken from the Japanese pronunciation of one of Da tun's names taing
Lun so that's where again we get to Da tianzun is a Chinese name and then also he has multiple incarnations one of which is considered to be Lai and then also one of them is taing La Jun and then you get into Translating that into Japanese and it's tojiro Kun that's just like how Journey to the West or sauki is like because of the way you pronounce Journey to the West in Japanese it becomes sauki in Japanese in sayuki taing laun which is the Japanese version of Lai is the one who attempts
to seal Sun Wukong into the mystical Crucible and burn him alive which he then finds the lone cold spot inside of withstands the fire and emerges stronger than before and so you could see even Within These episode very loose but but that loose adaptation of this in Dragon Ball again it just feels like someone on the anime staff must have been picking up on Toriyama’s themes and realized he loved subversions and he decided hey let's make ly or taang Lou June a woman to go
against what Japanese audiences would expect when encountering The Keeper of the magical furnace her name may come either from a type of tofu that's known as an and tofu the Japanese pronunciation for the word almond which is Anan or the Japanese word for an apricot pit which is also Anan so no confusion whatsoever there especially completely different things especially because those are all food puns and we know for sure that people on the anime staff were like
Toriyama loves his food puns keep this character having a food pun name a fair point so we don't know where that name came from at all and I like Bas being that she's like the keeper of a furnace I None of these points directly to that again couldn't find anything in in researching which again mostly consists of Googling around in free time which is I have a job people sorry yes recruiting recruiting for the Frieza Force yeah no other job no nothing else I I also I have no other
commitments no family well no oh we're just in a spaceship in in in space normally so what other commitments could you possibly have I'm not going to I'm not going to swim practices that would be ridiculous where would you even swim out in space you can't it's impossible yeah so so in this limited free time that I have though I couldn't find anything that suggested Laotzi was ever known to carry a guow which is the sword like the sword spear likee weapon that Anon wields
so this to me could be like another subversion where I couldn't find anything about ly ever being considered like a master martial artist or carrying weapons or like anything like that that and this might be just another subversion of like oh here's this character they're based on loudy also you think because they're based on loud SE they'll be peaceful all the time oh wait they also are a good fighter I was going to say because the laozi that I'm familiar with is like an Eastern
philosopher and so my expectation would be somebody who would be quite verbose and and willing to talk out problems as opposed to fighting and and it is the complete opposite of that right so I don't know maybe maybe not again the people that have worked on this stuff are oh man I'm now I'm making myself sad like half the people that have worked on this stuff are dead now so we can't even okay um and then like on top of that you know this is another one of those things
where we're looking at this stuff and this this happens in all fandoms you're looking at this thing decades after the fact that wound up catching on that wound up being super pop popular that today there's multiple podcasts and websites and conventions and a whole culture built around just this show and you're trying to find out everything you can about its production and its histories and its facts mhm for the people that were working on it at the time it was their job yeah and
they were like very often just trying to get through that day especially when you consider some of this stuff like at some of these points along the way the gap between Manga chapter and Anime adaptation was sometimes about 10 weeks or less and these people are just these people are just trying to get a second to breathe they're trying to Pat it out as best they can so they can actually get a break at some point yeah and you're going to go and ask hey were you
thinking about this this this and this it's like it's like think about like the busiest day at your job and you do have like an idea that winds up being pretty good actually and then someone wants to ask you 30 years from now what made you think of that idea yeah exactly I don't know man I was just trying to get my rent paid exactly so that's like that happens like a lot in this stuff is and and get another Godzilla reference in here is at at Gest the the convention
that happens every year in Chicago they bring in guests and you know over the years you start thinking you've brought in every guest that you can until some Intrepid and devoted fan slash rep like like like agent type of thing winds up tracking down the person who played the kid in this movie and they invited that guy and they asked him a bunch of questions and he was like he he was like I was like 8 years old this was like something that I did for fun and you're
asking me like what the set conditions were like I'm like an insurance salesman now yeah it would be it would be like asking somebody like age like what was it like going to to Disney World when you were a kid and it's like I don't remember much outside of thinking it was awesome and I remember yeah do I remember certain things yeah are those things there anymore nope um do I remember some things yeah did those did those things ever exist maybe like yeah your seven-year-old mind plays a lot of
tricks on you it's true so yeah that's like you can't ever it's very difficult at least without someone specifically saying this is what we thought about when we did this you can't ever make that assumption yeah and you also can't really it's still fun to make that assumption though it is fun and it's fun to do this like look looking into it and finding some of this stuff and finding some of these like like again just really interesting parallels between stuff that we know
Toriyama did we know that he would often say like I would subvert people's expectations and I would do the opposite of what they thought and the opposite of what I thought they wanted yeah which we know he did with in the first tournament when everyone voted for Goku to win and he was like I was going to have Goku win but everyone wants it so I'm not doing that it's like uh uh that George RR Martin interview where he's talking about like when you write like a mystery story and if people start
speculating on who the murderer is and they get it right and it's like well now now you almost kind of want to change the story just so that they're not right but you have to also kind of fight against that because you want to write a good story yeah so yeah it's just it's just so crazy when you find these like hey that feels like something Toriyama would do but we also know from Toriyama saying himself like he didn't talk to the anime staff regularly and he didn't meet with them
and he didn't give them a whole lot of guidance he was he was busy at this time he's writing a chapter of manga every week and waiting until the last second and and still not hitting his deadline sometimes and that's uh one thing I'll say in the in the in the wake of his passing is people have been very defensive about like stop spreading the lie that he didn't work that hard no he we understand absolutely worked hard he worked super hard it is just it's fun to paint that picture of what his
personality was like and that was a he was a procrastinator and it's like sure yeah absolutely you can be a person like I do this this is how I operate at my job I was going to say yeah this that that honestly in in my perspective it makes him more relatable as a person yeah I procrastinate often all the time you can work hard and still be like a procrastinator by Nature yeah or you can work really hard and just go well I don't I don't want to do this because it
it'll save me time and I've already got so much to do yeah so yeah we're at the this is the end of Dragon Ball um anything else about these episodes I I I liked that idea that you floated that these are like a cool parallel to early epes yeah yeah yeah and and and and honestly that that kind of really elevates these episodes for me to being some of the the better ones mostly just by virtue of the fact that they are the last ones like this is kind of the last time we see this sort
of I guess focus more on like Adventure and exploration as opposed to here's the here's the big bad guy we have to fight but so yeah that's these these that's these Filler episodes anything else on these fillers not not really I guess my only my my final takeaway is is that um the Art's starting to get to a place that's more familiar um and in general I think just a little bit higher quality than the stuff that we've seen so far which is a nice change on the art
we're gonna have to we'll have to do a little digging at some point again see who was involved in these episodes and see if there's any Crossover with Z Yeah Yeah because it feels like there is I know again we've we've mentioned this before the reason that there's a change between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z is that kazuo Torishima thought Dragon Ball should be more popular in the anime because in his opinion the piccolo the King Piccolo Demon King Piccolo and then and then
Piccolo Jr arcs were some of the best writing toriyama had ever given him and it was because he was it's because his manga AA was finally starting to listen to him he told him like I need a more serious villain I need like a real villain and he was like all right here's the Red Ribbon Army they're bad guys and they won't like say they're sorry ever and Tori Toriyama was like yeah but these guys suck like like they're not a challenge for a hero basically you know then he makes Piccolo
who is inspired as we mentioned on our Piccolo Episode by Toriyama which is which is the best H I always love that little bit and so teshima was thinking boy this this show should be more popular this is the best writing that Toriyama has ever given me why isn't the show more popular he thought and I guess you could ultimately say he was proven right that it was because the producers the the the showrunners of Dragon Ball at that point were the people who were the showrunners of
Dr slump and they were sticking too much to the Dr slump style and they assumed because it was from Toriyama it was still supposed to be goofy and silly and they drew it and animated it that way and I don't know how much they changed animation houses but by changing like the showrunners the two M like the directors and producers and giving the animation houses like slightly different direction they were able to shift the style of Dragon Ball and that's the shift from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z
is a shift in the animation style and the drawing style MH anyways that's all I got to say about these episodes that's all I got so are we almost at the ship yet hang on let me try the the locator on the key fob I wait I I could at least hear it hang on do that again why well I thought I noticed something just do it please happy actually kind of something about our ship's locator bothering the giant plant it's throwing it off its equilibrium you can even see its
movements changed a little bit I see so can we just fly the rest of the way to the ship I still think that would be an extremely bad idea yeah but you just raised your power level to blast that bird person so I don't think we have any choice smash that button and let's fly to the ship we'll take our leave of you here listeners quit signing off start dodging all the roots flying out of the ground and let's get the hell out of here will beIN and I be able to dodge the hundreds
of thousands of roots that have clumsily reaching forest in their confusion caused by the ship's locator will we safely escape this planet find out next time and help us achieve our final forum [Music] final form is written and produced by Tom Gueli it is performed by Dan Kenny and Tom Gueli our Web Master is Dan Kenny our theme music is provided by YouTube content creator gvgkid want to learn more about the Dragon Ball Universe including concept art behind the scenes
interviews and recommendations from jelly and bikini connect with us on social media like us on Facebook follow us on Twitter @ final forum pod make sure to subscribe rate and review wherever you receive your podcasts and of course make sure to share with your friends and family and help us spread the word of the glory of Lord Frieza the Frieza Forest thanks you for your listenership [Music]