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it's over 9,000 [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome super Elite Warriors to final forum a podcast for the discussion of all things Dragon Ball I am your host jelly and Elite recruiting member of the Frieza force on a mission to find the best Warriors from across the Galaxy to join the greatest army of all time and I am joined as always by my new recruit co-host this is the bikini it's good to have you back to yourself recruit well sort
of I mean I was sub subsumed by the carnivorous hassock but I at least was able to fight through the hypnosis with every ounce of willpower I had enough to be able to continue on again with the eye died stuff give it a rest I've given up trying to explain it to you I'm sure they're listen have figured it out by now ah speaking of our listeners hello listeners Bekinney and I are still on K2 332 and we're slowly working our way back towards our ship floating amongst
the Treetops of the planet here and Blasting every bird creature who approaches us as per beginning's suggestions a suggestion you weren't shy about taking up for once well yeah I didn't like these things to begin with to finding out they're attempting to use some sort of long form mind control or H hypnosis or own manipulation to get us to relax enough to be able to absorb us makes the push into eradicating them pretty easy but it's nagging at me that they weren't absorbing us can't you just
draw on that mental connection you have with them to figure out what they were actually doing it's not I can't look it's it's not that simple it's not like we were exchanging minds or anything I just I can feel what they're thinking and intending why can't I I don't know you're the biologist here though any guesses as a pure guess um some species of birds strike a symbiosis with plants these birds in particular obviously as they were feeding us to some sort of
giant plant species one that absorbs energy right why would these birds having a symbiosis with plants mean you can read their minds again I can't read their minds I just I I don't know I can't describe it other than like I feel their intentions Tommy toes toe jamos what it's another Earth saying that I'm sure you butchered anyway uh remember how I've talked about like my roots several times yeah I don't really see how your genealogy is relevant to bird people it's not like you're a bird
person or anything no I listeners I'm sure I don't need to explain to you and I'm sure jelly would just interrupt anyway hey you don't address the listeners I do you don't have a monopoly on talking here anyway where the hell is the ship I don't know but I do get the feeling we should find it soon these creatures are agitated yeah because we escaped their trap that's no that's not it they're scared yeah because we're killing them again I don't feel like that's it
they're scared of something and I think it has to do with you escaping your hassock well no time to figure it out I don't see any of those creatures around here and we've arrived at what looks like a locked Hangar Bay well I try to hack into this computer out here keeping it locked how about we get into this week's topic and this week we're going to hit on episodes 144 through 148 that's five episodes where quite a bit happens in the finals of the 23 Tenkaichi
Budokai and that'll actually take us to the end of the tournament proper and leave us prepped for the final what five or six episodes of of the original Dragon Ball that'll be filler that'll end out the series that's right we're going to start this week with episode 144 titled super Kamehameha now I wonder if the title of this one maybe tips Goku's hand a little anyway uh things are looking tough for Goku as he's lying face down in the dirt with the approaching 10 but what's this
Piccolo tells Mr announcer to stop counting everyone fears that means Goku's done for but it's quite the opposite in fact he thinks there's no way that Goku's done already and what's this not only is Piccolo right but Goku actually doesn't seem to be hurt at all there's a few reaction shots of our Fighters um then our Fighters decide to take start taking things seriously what follows is a historic moment for Dragon Ball the first drawn out powering up sequence followed by an
explosion of activity this fight is literally becoming electrifying po Piccolo tries out some Stretch Armstrong moves but Goku kind of counters them by turning invisible at least until like Piccolo finds him and then he punches him through the ring wall um like it just it's super uh flurry of activity at this point but it was all a faint Goku finds his opening and absolutely pummels Piccolo uh but the pernicious Piccolo postulates that pepper peppering the place with a percussive projectile is
the preferred payback Goku warns everyone to run and tries to draw Piccolo's attention away from the crowd he manages to slip under the beam but the local mountain range is not so lucky Goku decides to avenge them with a super Kamehameha how could anyone know this was going to happen roshi reminds Goku that killing Piccolo means killing Kami which means Goku can't really fire off the Kamehameha because he'll you know kill God so what's a monkey man to do wait is
lunch kind of into Piccolo here in this scene I anyway uh back to the fight Piccolo decides to press the advantage and whip up his next devastating maneuver with an overly long Power Up in fact it takes just enough time for Krillin to remember that they can bring Kami back with the Dragon Balls guess that super Kamehameha is usable after all next is a spectacular light show and it really is beautiful that may or may not have destroyed the venue which brings us to episode 145 titled Junior
no more well the good news is the arena is still standing along with all the spectators the bad news so is Piccolo he seems pretty upset now and to top it all off with Piccolo's clothes and T matters everyone else figures out who he really is there are some folks that think that these are kind of like the same folks that think Clark Kent and Superman are two different people I guess this incites a small panic and everyone flees except for the Kame crew the news
spreads fast and the rest of the world is soon panicking right alongside them Mr announcer is a true professional um but he does kind of have to fall back to a safe distance along with everyone else in order for Goku to fight at his fullest speaking of fighting in his fullest Piccolo drops a new technique he just remembered he can do turn into a kaiju what follows is an excellently choreographed and animated fight of the biggest M mismatch in history and by
that I mean Piccolo is the underdog and Goku seems to agree his friends offer to help but he declines saying he wants to win the title what follows is what happens when you blow your animation budget in the first half of the fight Goku starts manhandling the oversized Piccolo which I guess if it's a big Piccolo I I should probably just call him flute at this point but the tricky villain uses eye lasers to take out Goku's ACL no that one to waste an opportunity flute tries to stamp out her
hero literally except Goku is the world's strongest cockroach and he ends up like flipping like Judo flipping him by his finger which is pretty impressive Goku even kind of rubs it in a bit he's like I'm not scared of you but I might be if you were a little bigger Piccolo's like all right bet if he's the world's toughest cockroach let's see how he does as a flea flute doubles down on the size increase to become the dreaded bassoon what's a flea to do which brings us to
episode 146 titled Goku's trap the odds are looking insurmountable for our boy Goku but the return of a higher animation budget means that we get to see his determine determination in high defa so why bait the guy into growing larger so he could jump down his throat and retrieve Kami of course now that Kami is free and bassoon has a tummy ache he decides to shrink back down to Piccolo size the Fight Continues with both Fighters now attaining speeds that God himself cannot see they take to the
sky where Piccolo gets the upper hand and says Goku rocketing back to Earth only to have him rocket back up by firing a Kamehameha out of his feet and I don't think we ever see him do this again I think this the only time it's ever happened ever does anything like that again this is truly a high point for the series honestly uh the return punch is strong knocking Piccolo out of the air but before either fighter can hit the ground Piccolo fires off yet another
energy attack but this time Goku can't Dodge it as he's just sort of like falling through the air uh Piccolo then uses an open uses this opening to follow up with a killing blow only for Kami to jump in the way and block it this obviously pisses Goku off and he yells at God for interfering he then lets Piccolo get in a free shot for his trouble um there's some talk about the pride of martial artists and then Piccolo gloating about how much stronger he is than everybody
while the pride part didn't seem to resonate with like the martial artist Pride part didn't seem to resonate with Kami hearing Piccolo talk trash seems to flip a switch and he's just like all right Goku beat the brakes off this guy Goku drops a little Trash Talk of his own sort of like yeah know you you could be as strong as you want to be I'm always going to be stronger than you and Piccolo responds with a heat seeking energy ball that Goku purposely runs
into Piccolo wow being hit with your own energy attack that's got to be super embarrassing uh the blast nearly destroys Piccolo's left arm and Goku implores him to reconsider Piccolo instead just rips his arm off and grows a new one neat hey quick question why is his blood red but when his he rips his arm off the new one like pops out with green goo all over it anyway worry about it don't worry about it there's no time to wonder that as Piccolo begins loading
his next exe nobody knows what it is but Goku seems to have a realization ands everyone to height tail it out of there that brings us to episode 147 titled Goku hangs on so Piccolo's been charging up the entire time between episodes and for this last desperate attack no idea why Goku wouldn't try to just I don't know stop him from using it but he seems determined instead to just try and withstand it uh not the best strategy in my mind but well the guys in second
place so many times in this tournament by this point that maybe he's just afraid of actually winning um instead of running like they're told Tien just uses the kikoo to like pop up or or would it be I guess pop down a bomb shelter everyone heads for cover Yamcha actually takes better care of Chi-Chi than her fiancé uh so what's taken so long to charge up well it's called the mega exploding evil wave of course uh Goku is pretty confident he can survive but the
best part about this this line is that his eyes were kind of animated a little goofy so it comes off as someone with like a a brain injury making a bad decision Kami tries to appeal to reason but there's no reaching Goku so Piccolo's attack you know finally goes off no kidding this is not a joke this is legitimate at about 10 minutes into the episode in what I could only assume is like a blast reminiscent of a nuke it nearly destroys the entire Island turning the arena into a desert crater
but Goku is still standing almost unscathed actually which is pretty impressive Piccolo is even in disbelief and Goku is declared Victory there's absolutely no way Piccolo can win after expending all of his energy right well that seems to be the case as Goku proceeds to Pummel Piccolo into paste but then he jumps into the air to fire Kamehameha into the arena without warning anyone first which just seems kind of rude considering that he was telling everybody to take cover before
um but the attack lands and victory seems assured Piccolo is like unconscious at the bottom of a small crater uh Mr announcer Begins the count but before the full 10 Piccolo Springs awake and like shoots an energy beam out of his mouth and like puts a hole in Goku's shoulder it seems the tables have turned and Goku will lose this tournament as well Piccolo starts to gloat and stomp on Goku's open chest wound o that's going to get infected uh his friends try to jump in but it would
appear Piccolo still has some power held in reserve the break from getting trampled however gives Goku an opportunity to Rally uh this bout is not quite finished yet which is going to bring us to our last episode this week episode 148 titled the Victor this fight became a real mix-up folks it's looking rough for our for both Fighters but Goku is actively leaking from a hole in his chest things are in Dire Straits for our hero and the g they get even worse when Piccolo
strikes the his open wound and then follows it up with a double leg break that's right now now Yamcha can't even claim the most broken bones in this tournament he's just losing left and right then he blows a hole in his left arm so Goku is basically helpless at this point like none of his extremities are working Piccolo has all the Time in the World to finish him off slowly Kami tries to circumvent this by having Tien kill him since like he's forbidden to commit suicide he's like hey if you kill
me it'll kill Piccolo and it takes some convincing but Tien does agree to do it but before he can actually deliver the killing blow uh Goku's like you know lying on the ground unmoving he's like no don't do it which is just wild but anyway he seems determined to see this to the end Piccolo's final attack lands resulting in explosion that should atomize Goku but when Piccolo decides to turn on the rest of the crew who comes flying in from his blind spot to save the day why
it's Goku of course uh Goku with a devastating headbutt to the ribs I guess he somehow mastered flight but didn't bother to use it at any point before this so I don't know doesn't doesn't really make a lot of sense to me but sure we'll go Hees Piccolo out of the ring and wins his first tournament kame crew want to take Goku to the hospital but fortunately for them yajirobe is actually still here and he has senzu beans with him while Goku celebrates his first Victory he notices
Kami about to kill Piccolo wouldn't that technically be suicide anyway uh Kami says once again that they can revive him with the dragon balls but Goku calls him out and reveals that if he dies the Dragon Balls will disappear Kami starts getting depressed about how Piccolo and uh his evil are basically his fault and that he's not fit to serve Earth uh then roshi gets all you know Wise martial arts master and points out that no nobody would have become strong enough
to defeat Piccolo without him or the Dragon Balls either Kami Taylor's Goku a new set of ghee out of I don't know magical girl dust or something I'm not sure and Goku uses a senzu bean to revive Piccolo why well so Goku can keep fighting a strong guy obviously so Goku you've become the world's strongest out of the heavens what are you going to do next become the new Kami Goku tells Kami to take this job and shove it and flies off on kinto’un with his new bride happily
ever after roshi even takes a coconut to the head everything is finally right in the world and that is that could have been where Dragon Ball ended could have been but it's not technically technically isn't but um these I these episodes are awesome they just are yeah we get a lot of like really really beautiful action sequences and you can also see that like this entire final has really been like a especially watching it now after having watched like all of Z and all that other
stuff mhm uh I get the feeling that like this is where they're really starting to solidify okay this is what we're going to be doing for like the next chunk of the anime this is how we're GNA be doing fights exactly yeah it's this is this is like it's funny that they do pivot to a new like team of animators and things but I feel like that that team of animators looks at this and is like you know what that's what this is now yeah and that is I mean there's so
much in here the the the long powering up and boy talk about feeling bad for your voice actors they just got to stand stand there for like 10 minutes and your vocal cords would be shot after that man there's that and then there's just the the way the the style of the the animation the way the fight is animated with you know the the quick moves and and like breaking like you do those like quick shots where there's nothing on the screen and then the quick flashes of
them of like showing them like hitting each other and stuff and that establishes that they are moving faster than can be seen but you still get to see it that stuff's all great and then like the giant Piccolo I feel like that's just I really think that's well animated like the giant Piccolo stuff was the first half the the second half of it is is a little rough yeah um but yeah no that first half is is A+ oh and and also the the episode title Junior no more perfect that is a perfect episode
like that is the be like because you as a viewer you got to put yourself put yourself back in the shoes of a 12-year-old in Japan in 1988 I think or maybe ' 89 at this point and that episode is is the next episode title after one that teases using the super Kamehameha wave mhm and you're like oh this is this is the episode where he gets defeated but no it's Junior no more because he drops the Alias and also gets bigger yeah yeah but it is the episode where he it's the It's
the episode also finally where he drops the Alias yeah it works on multiple levels that's what makes it so great yeah and he and he outs himself so yeah in in a future Piccolo episode we'll get into more of what makes him different from his father and delve into how a lot of that works and especially the relationship between the two of them where he like says I am Piccolo but we also know that he is the son of Piccolo but for now the easiest way to think of it is that he's a
reincarnation so he has the same past life experiences but he's a different person he's the Olympic torch of evil this the same flame burning in a different vessel right from there we can get a feel for explaining some of his differences like why he's using the tournament rather than just going back to trying to take over the world and his ultimate capacity for change over the ensuing years Goku tearing off his shirt after a brief Skirmish actually becomes a thing
throughout the rest of Dragon Ball he's going to be shirtless a lot if you like looking at those uh I believe they call them uh A seword Gutters you know what you know what I'm talking about I I don't think so it's a certain seword that I feel I can't say on on a that part that part I picked up I'm just not sure what the reference is oh they call him gutters something gutters oh uh because I first found out about that from Rick and Morty actually but uh it's like a it's like a
name it's a name for like the good channel of abs like the channeling when your abs are like so defined that goes from your ab area on a man down to your crotchal area got it [Laughter] okay I've never heard that term before that's a new one on me okay so if you like looking at those animated gutters uh you get a lot of it uh but I I was actually gonna say that um I A friend of mine his mom used to make fun of us watching that show by calling Goku nipple man because his shirt was off all
the time and it becomes a thing for like all the characters like Vegeta is often shirtless it it happens to several characters throughout this is a Bruce Lee thing and and you'll see it in a bunch of his movies and many of the movies that follow in his wake and then we know Toriyama loves those Kung flu Kung did it Kung flu Toriyama loves those kung fu movies so the influence is obvious and there's no one obvious point of influence it's just it's such a tried
andr Trope of the genre that just shows how much the hero is beaten by battle and also puts their strength on full display it's it's oh they're so beaten up and you get to show like scratches and battle scars and things like that and then also ABS H Piccolo blows up the mountains and the result an explosion is like a nuclear blast Toriyama and the anime te team do it because it looks cool but we should maybe talk a little bit about nuclear bombs and their significance in Japan
obviously this would be maybe like a big deal to a Japanese audience viewing this it's you don't just drop a nuke reference in something that's intended for a Japanese audience like just casually it would be it would be like a like a um it seems a little crash to say this but it'd be like a fighter having a technique that's a plane flying into a building or something yes like it's like it's like a casual 9911 reference in your movie you know I mean there was
there was that period for a while after 911 where like movies were hesitant to even show like buildings planes near buildings yeah yeah or even like buildings being destroyed in movies like they reshot parts of like the Spider-Man movie although that incorporated The Two Towers but like they also changed I think it's the entire ending sequence of Lilo and Stitch yeah I think I heard about that too yeah so because it involved like an airliner like flying around buildings or something as opposed
to like a spaceship up in space So yeah so like using a nuclear blast and and something Japanese is is it's a bold move it really is because you know I I've heard stories this you know this is on the realm of being a Godzilla fan but like I have heard stories from obviously second and third hand uh very much so but like from you know Japanese audiences who have watched the American monster verse Godzilla movies and been very uncomfortable with how Cavalier those movies are in showing
nuclear blasts and nuclear explosions and using nuclear bombs it's a it's it's it's a touchy subject for obvious reasons yeah and yeah I think like the the only Japanese like I can't think of any Japanese movies that that I've seen that use it ca that use that type of explosion like casually and then when they're doing it they're usually the ones that I can think of and again most of the ones that I can think of that use it are are Godzilla movies those tend to
be the more serious ones tend to be the more serious ones that are using that specific image to evoke some sort of a statement actually about the nuclear bomb um most recently Godzilla minus one did it pretty pretty prevalently there's uh the sequence where Godzilla attacks um I believe it's Shibuya the the like shopping district and he uses his nuclear breath for the first time in that movie afterwards black rain falls from the sky which is a pretty powerful image
of significance for people who for for Japan for the these people who survived a nuclear blast that happened in Hiroshima after the bomb was dropped it rained Black Rain and many of the people who got caught out in that Black Rain took massive doses of radiation because that rain was highly radiated and suffered significant effects and then like radiation is it's such a weird thing cuz then like some people like literally all they did was like they lost their hair but they were fine then
afterwards so yeah that's a that's a pretty um it's a pretty striking image at that in for Dragon Ball yeah and you'll never see one that looks exactly like that again they'll be like they'll be giant explosions all the time but they're they're not that specific like mushroom cloud kind of image right Piccolo being revealed to the audience this is a this is a a duh moment for the viewers and everyone can kind of chuckle and laugh at it and and that's fine but you take into
consideration that Toriyama has shown a love of superheroes many times he includes a Superman parody character in Dr slump and he sprinkled superheroes as back characters in this Dragon Ball Manga at the Tenkaichi budokai he he's drawing inspiration from Superman being unrecognizable to people because he wears glasses or nobody putting together that Bruce Wayne is the only guy who could afford to be Batman or or Wonder Woman putting on a tiara and people not
recognizing Diana Prince in other words yeah it's dumb but if you can roll with those things this shouldn't be very different and if you can't then I'm sorry that you're dead inside but like I I don't know I think like moratorium on the oh nobody recognized Piccolo jokes because yeah no one also recognizes Superman like get over it like I like how I like how we put the moratorium after I made my joke well yeah you you got to be able to have your cake and eat it too yeah no of
course makes perfect sense you can't put a ban on everyone else doing something unless you're being hypocrite about it that's right of course what was I thinking if I've learned anything from American [Laughter] politics so he he finally he calls he calls himself this character calls himself Piccolo and some fans call him Piccolo Jr nobody in the show ever really has called him Piccolo Jor not in any way that's that's stuck at all the easiest way and and it's become more and
more common over the years I think to distinguish between the father and the son is calling the son Piccolo and The Father Demon King Piccolo I I've really really noticed this become the trend over the past like decade maybe even more of fan discourse is if you say Piccolo everyone assumes this is the piccolo you're talking about and if you want to be talking about the other Piccolo the the first one you say Demon King Piccolo makes sense I feel like you like I we've all probably seen
that happen over the last 15ish years of of the fandom evolving is easily is you you see that kind of happened more people people always just and a big part of the reason why people I think people just assume if you say Piccolo you're talking about this Piccolo is because there's there's still a lot of people that have only ever seen Dragon Ball Z and forward and even even among people who have seen Dragon Ball many of us came to this via Dragon Ball Z first and so to us like
this that's Piccolo he's always going to be Piccolo yeah yeah and you have to differentiate him from the other one it's it's like um it's like there's there's certain people that are like that you know like you you you might know a a person and a and a junior right but you call the the you don't call Senior senior you just call him by his name and then junior junior or like or even potentially vice versa you might like you might I have this with like my friends who are
Juniors right I just call them by their name because that's how I was introduced to them and then you meet their dad down the line and I always then refer to the dad as senior or I get behind that or Mister right like like oh Tim and Mr Tim so the audience flees everyone flees except Goku's friends who believe in him and think he's going to win and Mr announcer this is inspiration taken from all the Kaiju movies that Toriyama loves even in the face of their potential Dem
the reporters in Kaiju movies have always dutifully do their jobs reporting on the destruction caused by the rampaging Kaiju until The Bitter End in the original 1954 Godzilla film a team of reporters on a tower does their job even as the tower is attacked by Godzilla and also in the American version of that movie it's a it's about like Raymond Burr is inserted into scenes in the movie and the movie is more about him like he's doing his job and he's reporting on this up until
until Godzilla crushes the building that he's in in King Kong versus Godzilla the main character is a reporter who's calling the scene from a helicopter in Mothra versus Godzilla our main characters are and many side reporters characters are reporters they're In Harm's Way throughout the the movie as assigned by their editor in Destroy All Monsters a a reporter gives a play by play on everything so again this is this is Toriyama is is playing with with these things that that he loves and even
in in the most recent again to invoke Godzilla minus one the most recent Godzilla movie there's another scene it's it's it's actually the same scene it's the the scene in Shibuya but there's reporters standing on a building top that that are standing there and Reporting on oh this giant creature has shown up this is the first time they've seen Godzilla in this in this universe the storyline of of of Godzilla minus one and those giant creature is shown up and then he like destroys the building
that they're standing on so yeah this is uh this is Toriyama playing with that idea and he he makes the announcer this this Fearless character who stands by and and reports on the the action because that's his job it's his duty okay cho cho kosin Jutsu that's a mouthful the super huge body technique this is something that's pulled again straight out of the thing that Toriyama loves this is straight out of Ultram man especially I would say Ultram man in general but like especially Ultra 7 as a
character is shown to be able to alter the size of his body he actually sometimes I think in one episode he shrinks down to be able to fight is it a infe a blood infection in a Kaiju or something like he shrinks down and fights inside a kyu's body in one episode and he grows huge obviously cuz Ultram man does but also consider super sentai or what we know as Power Rangers I think Americans in general might have a better frame of reference for Power Rangers and the parallel might
even be a little bit stronger the hero himself in Power Rangers the the heroes do not actually grow in size but the enemy monster does if you can recall back to when power R when you maybe had watched Power Rangers it's always like Rita is make my monster grow and she throws her yeah was about she throws her staff down doesn't she yeah and and and then the monster gets huge and then the Power Rangers will jump into their Zord uh in Ultram man this happens sometimes
too the enemy monster might start small and grow big but then that will be the host of Ultram man's queue to turn into Ultram man from human form and fight on equal footing so the the alien or the monster that they're fighting might be hum sized and then grow big and like when he's humanized they'll be fighting him like with guns and as what they call this usually like the Science Patrol or some version of the Science Patrol they'll be trying to fight the monster and then
it'll grow big and he'll he'll be like oh everyone hey look over there don't pay attention to me anymore and then he grows and then he grows into Ultra Man and fights the Monster uh Goku doesn't do that but like the the Sentai Heroes he himself does not grow another reason Toriyama is doing this is because of his love of reverse and opposites again in the first tournament Goku grew huge and fought roshi now Piccolo grows and is fighting Goku it's that roll reversal
thing yeah this also parallels something seen in Journey to the West which we're also going to see the anime team play with in future fill episode uh but in that Sun Wukong needs to get the bans show fan to do so he finds princess iron fan the wife of G gumal uh or that story's version of the ox King uh she swallows the fan to keep it from s Wukong so he turns into an insect and goes inside her to get it keep your minds out of the gutters he goes into her mouth again
mines out of the gutter and he transforms himself into a fly to do so uh in Journey to the West Immortals will tear off Limbs and grow them back so Toriyama’s doing that with Piccolo to show his power he gives a retroactive explanation but we can't take that into account at this point because we have to assume Toriyama is being truthful when he says that he hasn't thought all this through or planned it out and is more or less making up the story as he goes along though is oolong’s question about
Piccolo being a lizard foreshadowing or maybe future inspiration for Toriyama yeah maybe still we have to assume that at this point Toriyama’s pulling further in inspiration from Journey to the West uh the story he had in mind when he started this franchise another thing is Goku flying into Piccolo was his big mystery his big reveal his big secret he can fly and he waited until the last possible moment to reveal this in Buddhist Dost tradition Immortals can manipulate matter uh we talked about
alchemy in the previous episode but the principle still kind of applies here that's why he can sort of create clothes out of nothing for other characters yeah when Kami just makes the cloth like points at him and then it like glitter shower and then oh you've got new clothes now yeah that's like a that's a thing and then it's and then yes this this is a lot of these things that Kami and Piccolo do are then attributed to them being aliens and specifically neans
because is there another episode like in the F yes o I don't know if it's an episode now I know for sure again I know for sure in the super manga at one point Goku meets a nean on a different planet and he's like wearing some different clothes and the the the nean is is like oh would you like some different clothes and like changes his outfit for him so oh so this just something that every nean can do cool apparently they they just can create clothes they don't they don't eat they
can create clothes all right they photosynthesize [Laughter] them again Toriyama is throwing like a retroactive explanation on this with the with the thing but but yeah we uh we have to think this is this is like just a A Journey to the West reference and then and then yeah the the mystery the big yeah the remember the the theme of this tournament was all about Mysteries and secrets and and hidden reveals and and we've seen that all throughout right Shen is revealed ultimately to be Kami
and Piccolo is Junior is revealed to be Piccolo and tenen has this hidden four split technique that he's that he's worked up and up until this point the only sort of secret or reveal that Goku has undergone is just in the very very beginning when he REM Meats his friends and reunites with them and he's like hi I'm Goku if if you're really keyed into the Mysteries thing you might think okay once a character has unveiled their mystery that's it they don't have another one that's kind of the almost
the Brilliance in a way of of Toriyama holding that one to the end cuz then it's a bigger surprise oh not only did he have that other little reveal earlier but he has this he's been holding back this whole time yeah to the point where like I think I think when when uh Piccolo grows larger and and Goku goes to jump like down his mouth like he doesn't even fly for that like he jumps up in the air and then propels himself in with a a Kamehameha wave yes like that's that's how devoted to keeping it
a secret he was yes I like that I I do like that I like the idea of again this this it ties back into Goku's like approach to fighting people too where he doesn't want to kill people he wants to test their strength and his and even when he comes across like like bad people like like Piccolo or Vegeta or Frieza he's he believes or at least thinks like if he demonstrates his prowess over them they will to him essentially yeah I think a lot of that is is driven by this fight
in particular because Piccolo after the fight is over and they both get their senu beans again if if Piccolo was just like his dad he would have just started started killing everybody yeah exactly but he realizes that Goku defeated him while holding back and so he knows that and spared his life because he jumped in the way and saved Kami from finishing him while he was weak right and and so he Goku has this this belief I think that I think that Springs from this
fight of if I prove that I am stronger than you and I didn't even have to go all out to prove that I'm stronger than you then you have to realize that I could just destroy you so how about you just stop like yeah I mean and to his credit that's actually a fairly solid line of logic when you think about it it is it's like it's like if you an adult have ever dealt with a particularly unruly child or a child not who's unruly by nature but is having a a moment yeah and and you just kind
of can wrap them up and kind of I don't want to make it sound like I'm like beating children here like you but you could just kind of like wrap them up and kind of pin them down and just kind of stop them yeah it's it's more about keeping them from hurting other people as opposed to uh hurting them really what you're talking about and and it does it it makes it it it like works it like makes the kid realize oh like yeah I I should calm down now and and it's it's
that same it's that yeah that's like kind of the the the logic or the principle behind it right is if I if I can beat this dude up and he knows it then he shouldn't try to not be beaten up Goku is a is a proponent of soft parenting confirmed so yeah that the Regeneration I do I like it here like I am very good with the namekians can grow back limbs thing sure I don't particularly love the use of it later on when he's like as long as my head isn't destroyed I can regenerate everything I'm like
really I also really love how it's kind of nebulous once it's introduced and you can kind of tell that Toriyama uses it as like a way to shock his readers by like hurting Piccolo by degrees more and more and more but then just having him heal from it yeah almost as if like Piccolo doesn't even really know how durable he is and he's actually kind of surprised what he can grow back from he's like okay how does this work okay let's just because he's like as long as
my head isn't damaged I can regenerate okay when you chop off a Nan's head do they grow a whole body out of their head or do they grow a head out of their body I think weirdly enough I think Deadpool kind of explored this in the comics in the comics they had a a a storyline where like he had been dismembered like he grew his body back but then like the dismembered Parts tried to come together and like grow another version of him which is absolutely what I would
want to see happened with Piccolo but we haven't gotten that although then again it's never really discussed like how namekians I guess there is the Demon King thing with like spitting up the egg but I guess I guess it's never really explained like the mechanism for that maybe it's like they break off a piece of themselves and then eject it so that it grows to reproduce possibly maybe cuz I think I think isn't I know it's one of the mov it's like Lord Slug or something like that so it kind of
implies that they're not necessarily like plants but more like like earthworms or something like that or or slugs and I mean I might be wrong on this I think Namek or namekian is it's like similar to Saiyan where Saiyan is yasay like you know reversed which is vegetable I I think I'm not 100% but like Namek is something where it's like whatever it it It reversed it means slug or mollusk or something like that in Japanese gotcha okay and then they are all like all the name puns like there is
Lord Slug but like there's other namakian that are named like cargo like es cargo right okay yeah I missed that the first time and still learning new things or is it it might be ESA but still like it's it's like escargot um and I think dende means also like slug or snail or like something like that so yes he like at some point Toriyama decides essentially that the ne mechans are like slug people basically it's like it's like what he what he kind of decides to
name them so then why aren't the eyes like on the ends of the antennas then we know cuz he's not planning the stuff ahead but I'm just and then that's you know the regen regeneration stuff is always like tricky I I think to an extent and again this is one of those things where he is not super planning this stuff out but the way he uses it with cell when I was like younger I thought I always felt like the way he uses it with cell I liked but then the way he did it with Majin Buu I
kind of didn't as much because I was like oh it's just another like when everyone's like oh he's just keeps regenerating I'm like yeah the last guy you fought also did this like why are you so shocked about this you guys should already have a skill set to deal with this what's going on no no no it's different this time because it's magic it's not biology so again that's just like a little a little nitpick I guess about how he's how Toriyama has used regeneration throughout throughout
Dragon Ball it's it's a bit of a sticky Wicked it's a bit of a it's a bit of a u DSX Machina for sure a little bit I I mean and and to Toriyama’s credit he's really good at what he does obviously but like even just watching the these Dragon Ball episodes again and then like kind of putting it in the context of like the series as a whole there's a lot of things that he reuses like he does it really well to the point where if you're not like looking for it it's pretty easy
to overlook but there's a lot of like uh story situations like this whole this whole thing with with Piccolo very much reminds me of what happens with Vegeta to the point where I'm like well Vegeta is just like a better version of this story essentially boy it's still hard to you know I I feel like I've been I've been doing it too it's still I still am struggling to to say past tense things about Toriyama yeah I'm still struggling with that um it's going it's it's an
adjustment I think it's going to take a while honestly yeah but no that's uh yeah that's the Regeneration thing is uh it's a interesting discussion sometimes to talk about it's again it's it's one of those things that I have to praise him for because just like oh he made a fighting comic where everything's blurry lines so he doesn't have to draw as much and now it's that uh oh I got to get the the villain hurt but at the same time I need him to be able to keep fighting oh let's
just have him be able to like regenerate his limbs it's like wow okay he could regenerate his limbs so that I don't have to ever change his character model yeah exactly I don't have to draw him in the future with a I don't have to remember how many fingers he has I don't have to remember how many arms he has it's always the same I don't have to start drawing him in the future with a with with one like flap of uh of a shirt like pinned to his [Music] chest my favorite version of this is is
um during the cell Saga when he's fighting that that first form of cell and he gets stuck in the arm and then he's just got like that deflated baby arm I was like I was so hoping that that would stick around for a while just because it looked hilarious goes to throw a punch and it just like weakly slaps the side of his head he's got a floppy arm for the they you know he wears the the shoulder pads with the cape and everything that's blowing in the wind and then so is his [Laughter]
arm I can't get this door figured out how about we just blast it that seems extremely ill advised please it's not like I'll damage the ship I'll just vaporize the door I'll give it a Zer blast I'm telling you I wouldn't do that you want to get out out of here but you don't want to do the thing that will help us get to our ship what if we find one of those bird things and don't immediately kill it and get it to open the door for us and give it a chance to lull us back into submission no thank
you stand back this feels like a bad idea a pipe down Z blast what the hell is that massive power signature huge reading it's it's under us the ground is swelling get to the ship quick it's coming up too fast it's right below us it's going to explode out of the ground down listeners we've been blown I don't know how far and our ship in the opposite direction and looming in front of us is uh stay still maybe it won't see us it's some kind of gigantic flower [Music]
I think that's just its Mall it has some sort of root system it's being supported by I don't think it's seen us yet we may have time to strategize and attack well while we do that we'll take our leave of you at this exciting Place listeners will beIN and I survive this encounter will we return to our and safely escape this planet find out next time and help us achieve our final forum [Music] final form is written and produced by Tom Gueli it is performed by Dan Kenny
and Tom Gueli our Web Master is Dan Kenny our theme music is provided by YouTube content creator gvg kid want to learn more about the Dragon Ball Universe including concept art behind the-scenes interviews and recommendations from jelly and bikini connect with us on social media like us on Facebook follow us on Twitter @ final forum pod make sure to subscribe rate and review you wherever you receive your podcasts and of course make sure to share with your friends and family and help us spread
the word of the glory of Lord Frieza the Frieza Forest thanks you for your listenership [Music]