The Next Picture Show’s 500th Episode

Hey, film Spotters, Josh and Adam.

Here.

Wednesdays are when we usually drop something into the feed from the Film Spotting Archive, but this week we wanted to celebrate our sister podcast, big milestone. The Next Picture Show just published it's five hundredth episode, so we're going to share it right here in our feed. Five hundred episodes comes out to Adam, ten years of podcasting.

How about that?

So excited for these four that ten years later they are still pumping out great podcasts, great film criticism. Talking about the movie that inspired the name of their show, it is Peter Bogdanovich's The Last Picture Show, and it's a movie Josh, I've seen. I've seen even more than once. That means I can listen. I can hear their in depth conversation about this film, and now you can too.

Very difficult to keep the line between the past.

And the press.

You believe that someone out of the past can enter and take possession of a living being.

We may be through with the past, but the past is not through with us. Welcome to the Next Picture Show, a movie the Week podcast about a classic film and how it shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

I'm Scott Tobias here with Tasha Robinson, Keith.

Phipps, and Genevieve Cosky.

Ten years ago, in early July twenty fifteen, our beloved movie site That Dissolve was shuttered after two years under the Pitchfork umbrella. It was a site that was simply too beautiful for our blighted digital media world. But we were not ready to scatter to the winds, not after working so closely together for so many years at the Dissolve in the av Club. So we conceived one group project no one could fire us from, a self produced

I mean, I remember it being easier to get together because I was a semi employed at that point in time. I think I was like doing some freelance work, so it was actually much easier for me to make time for the podcast, but also I started out in a purely behind the scenes role. So my biggest memory of those early days is the giant bag of chords and cables that I lugged to the physical space where we recorded together and had to spend a half hour setting everything up before we could record.

It was a different time pre.

Zoom, and when we all still lived in the same city and a very nice studio space that we could record in together. So the setup was definitely different and my contribution was different, but you know, we all grew together and evolved.

I definitely remember thinking this is going to be short term, like this is going to be something that we're going to do for a little while, and then, like every group of people who work together and then go elsewhere and get separate jobs from each other, like we're going to drift apart. We're probably going to move to other cities.

I think, yeah, No, I mean I didn't know how long it would last. But then, but so I wanted to hang out with you guys and work on some I wish we mentioned Rachel Handler or Dozoco Worker was part of this in the early days, and then then did leave for another city and got too busy and too famous too. But yeah, I've always loved working with you guys. I'm glad to keep working with you. And I'm glad that we have, you know, plug for the Patreon. I'm glad we have the Patreon now, so it is

It was a photo of Okay, Yeah, like when did when did zoom come along because it really felt like zoom.

When we needed to pull off, I think, I.

Mean, I do miss my giant bag of cables and you know, setting us all up around the same table together, but yeah, we did. We actually started with Skype as I recall, yeah, but right around pandemic different services for this.

Yeah, I mean remember the friends to app that we used. Totally. It was the clunkiest thing, you know, it was very clunky.

It is kind of astonishing we've made it this far and yet not and I think about part of it is the Patreon I mean not just the money, but just knowing that which is obviously super helpful, but having that support from our listeners. This whole time. Is very motivating, you know, you do what you do this for the fans, you know, and not.

Just motivating, you know, in the sense of reminding us that the people out there listening and people out there that you know, care enough to throw three bucks our way. It's also motivating in that we pay our guests, you know, which is something that not every podcast does. In fact, every time we ask a colleague of ours to be on the podcast that's never been on the podcast before and tell them what the fee is, they say, wait a minute, you pay your tests.

We pay them a lot.

Yeah, I mean, we don't pay them a yearly salary or anything. But it's nice to be able to, you know, to support people in that way and to compensate people for the time that they give us, because it's always a delight when somebody wants to like give up like four hours of their time to come and sit and

So for this a special five hundredth episode, we have a fun little surprise for you Dissolve podcast fans from back in the day. Well that's for a little bit later. First, we're going to talk about a movie that we've selected just for this occasion. Genevieve, can you tell our listeners about it?

Certainly the name of this podcast was inspired by Peter Bogdanovitch's nineteen seventy one classic The Last Picture Show, but we've never actually found the opportunity to talk about it until now. And given that this is a standalone episode, we don't have to wait around for a new movie with some connection to The Last Picture Show, so we're free to dig right into Bogdanovitch's adaptation of Larry McMurtry's novel about a dying Texas town in the early nineteen fifties.

Man that sounds depressing Genevieve. Well, at least Bogdanovich didn't shoot it in black and white and load up the soundtrack with old Hank Williams songs, Right, Oh Boy, do Mine.

And Melt your cold, Cold Hat.

Tony Bennett's Cold Cold Heart was on Everybody's Hip Parade. Elizabeth Taylor was getting married, boys were duck tails. The police action in the Far East was Korea, and Anerine, Texas, like other small towns, is approaching the end of an era.

I reckon. The reason why I always dragged yat here is probably I'm just as sentimental as the next fellow when it comes to old times, old.

Times Anrene, Texas, nineteen fifty one, nothing much has.

Changed, Cold Cold.

There's no greater shame in Texas than a subpar high school football team, especially in a small town where there's nothing to do on the weekends and not much else to talk about. From the very beginning of the last picture show, we can see with our eyes, and here with our ears, the town of Anrene, Texas is in its death throws. Adapting Larry McMurtry's novel Peter Bogdanovitch shoots in black and white and fills the soundtrack with a howling northerly wind that's unbroken by any signs of life.

Which one of you blooded his nose. I've told you all not to fight with Billy because he don't understand bout fight. What happens, Sonny.

They weren't none of us saying nah, It was Jimmy Sue.

Jimmy Sue. How do you get messed up with her?

We all chipped in, bought in piece ass.

Thought he was getting tired of being a virgin.

She got mad about something and blooded his nose. You boys can get on out of here. I don't want to have no more to do with you scaring a poor, unfortunate creature like Billy just so as you could have a few laughs. I've been around that trashy behavior all my life. I'm getting tired of putting up with it. You can stay out of this pool, all out of my cafe and my picture show too. I don't want no more of your business. We didn't mean for anything

The funny thing is we the last Picture Show has been part of our lore all the way back to the Dissolve, because I was always I was attached to the idea in many different occases, both for both for The Dissolver and for the newsletter that Keith and I have of calling the publication the Royal, which is the name of the theater in The Last Picture Show. That did not take, but it is something that it's something that we've focused on. But I actually don't know what everybody,

I mean, i'd never seen it before this. This was my first time with it.

Oh that's exciting. I actually I hadn't seen it before we started this podcast, but I figured it would be good to be familiarize myself with the movie the podcast is named after. So this is what's my second time seeing it. But I want to hear about Tasha's experience first.

I mean, there's kind of the emotional experience and then the intellectual experience, and the intellectual experience. It's just it's one of those movies where you spend every five minutes going Oh wow, was that person ever this young? Oh wow? Is that person in here too? How is there any role in this movie not played by somebody whose name I know and who I've never seen, you know, this

In that regard.

It's grim, but we just we did they shoot horses, don't they? It's not don't they grim?

It's not. I mean on the Audio Conventary, Peter Bardonovitch talks about like this you know my phrase, but like I think his idea like this kind of weird disconnect of a film that shot in its very old Hollywood style, but the material is so new Hollywood and so frank, and its depiction of sexuality and it's glumness, and it's like sort of refusal to push people toward a happy ending.

Is it?

Maybe the swimming party? I mean it's just not a place.

Yeah, I think it's a dance party before the swimming party.

Yeah, it's true. But even that you're talking like what a few dozen characters. It's just it's almost kind of like a Martian landscape in a way, and there's just not that many people there.

Yeah, the moment where somebody says, you know, there's there's only one pretty girl in town and she's taken. The moment that you see as soon as somebody breaks up, somebody else is going to be ready to swoop in, and you just realize like how small the group of young people is in this town. You know, the young, unattached people all know each other and kind of have an eye on each other in case anything changes, because there are just there's so few social slots. Basically, there

The scene that.

Really stuck out to me on this viewing was the three of them, Sunny, Dwayne and j C.

R driving and.

They start singing the school song, which I think was actually a director's cut edition, but I think only the director's cut is out there now, am I right? You all watch the version.

I think there's a blu ray that has both cuts on it, but it's the more you're more likely to see the director's cut, which I which is not that different but I think better in its additions.

Yeah, and I'm really glad it has that scene of them singing the school song because it feels just to me like it really encapsulates the almost like borderline cynical nostalgic feeling of this movie, like because you know, they're singing this song and they're being kind of like ironic about it, but they're also being kind of genuine about it.

You know.

It's this really interesting middle ground of kind of what you would expect of a you know, a nostalgic, warm look at the past and a realistic lens on what you know, the reality of this situation really is. And yeah, it's I think Keith you said it's like a one of one film, Like I can't think of any other movie that has this sort of tonality between feeling nostalgic but not feeling warm toward.

The nostalgia in any way. But the film.

Kicks off in you know, November December, you know, with that wind, and people comment on how cold it is, you know, and this is Texas, and obviously it spans a you know, a lot of time, so it doesn't stay that cold. But I think introducing this story in this very like desolate, cold, black and white feeling, but you know, on the this presumably really exciting stage of life for all these young adults, you know, like transitioning into the people they're going to become.

Yeah, when I see this movie, you know, I always I think this movie anytime I you know, we're here at Illinois.

I often have occasion.

To drive through the middle of Indiana and you go, you go through some of the are just generally some of it through Ohio, Ohio, Indiana machine these sort of roust belt towns that have long since we're downtown, has mostly shuttered.

I mean, it's a pretty common thing to see.

And I always think, think about the last picture show, and then think again about like who populates this town. And then also, you know, particular to this film, you know, the burden that the you know, so the young people have to carry, I mean just you know, and it starts out right away with all the comments about how bad they are in football and basketball, but like how

You know.

So so this is a this is a town that is you know, is literally dying off.

And then and we're we're seeing it oftentimes from the perspective, you know of these high school seniors who are who then have to figure out, you know, what their next step is because the notion of staying where they are, staying where their parents are it may be maybe comforting to a degree, but it's it's almost like not tenable too.

There is one other child. It is the naked boy swimming along with the in the swimming party. That's True's by that one of the more disturbing details.

Yeah, yeah, the sense then nobody is really all that excited about graduation. The sense that it doesn't feel like, you know, this exciting liminal state where they're going off into into some kind of future that kind of haunts so many high school stories. I think just comes from the sense of, like where are they supposed to go? We kind of watch Dwayne go through the options, you know, leave town, get a job elsewhere, become a rough neck, go into the military, Like those those are just kind

Yeah, I had the same thought about, like, you know, Sonny could be the next Sam. But we also hear from Sam during that lovely scene at the tank where he's kind of telling Sonny about his past, like he had multiple lives before he was Sam the Lion. You know, he had other opportunities to become the person he is. He didn't just kind of roll from adolescents into adulthood in the same situation, which is what is happening to Sonny. And it's depressing for Sonny to just like not have

And I think there's kind of a sense from Sam. I mean, you know, various characters, including Sonny and I can't remember the woman who inherits the movie theater, but there's there's that sense of like there's not much to that inheritance, like like like these businesses are going to die out pretty much with Sam. I don't think there's you don't get a sense that he's making a profit

But at the same time, I think I believe in Genevieve. Genevieve could have kept that tyner going.

That is true as Genevieve's do.

And then one of the things that I couldn't help but think about is like the Last Picture Show seems like.

It's in this world of the.

Pretty comfortable slash distant past. But if you were to make it but years wise, I mean, if you were to make The Last Picture Show in twenty twenty five and set it back when a comparable number of years ago, it would be set after nine to eleven.

You know what I mean.

So it doesn't see it seems like there's this huge distance in time between when the film was made and when the film was set. But it's only it's it's not even twenty years, right, What do we make of that?

It's about twenty years yeah, but I mean, I think it's also kind of like there's certain I think, you know, it's on the other side of the sixties. What you think it makes to be different. I think it's why, you know, American Graffiti feels like it's going looking back a lot further than it actually was, which is actually about ten years, you know. But it does seem to be like a lost world though, doesn't it.

It also like just evokes an earlier period of film, Like there's so much like classic Western illusion here, Ben Jonson being one of them, but also like the final movie that they watch and forgetting red River, yes, you know, and just that you know, the vistas. It does feel visually like it is calling back to an earlier era of film as well, not just like the actual events of our world at that time.

One other aspect I think of it technically being such a short time period, a twenty year gap, is I feel like this is maybe one of the more unsentimental looks at the fifties that I've seen in terms of

So I think Ruth and Sunny, Yeah, figure it out as they go along. Yeah, I feel like you see Ruth kind of blossom and and turn for like, you know, I don't know how course course used here. I think the character has supposed to be in her thirties.

But she she's forty.

Okay, well, yeah, that's right, forty. It's an itchy age, I think is what is Yeah, but such she looks she just looks looks much older and much like worn out. And then she's kind of revived by this affair. You could just you know, she Leechman just looks so much more vibrant, and you know, if you get the feeling that they figured something out, you know in the bedroom. However, you know, awkward their relationship might be to the people around them, though everyone knows about it.

I guess given the complete lack of like attempt to instruct him in any way that we see in that first encounter or even ease his discomfort, especially with the squeaky bed, just did not lead me to to hopes

Well, here's something. One of the things that just strikes me in this movie every time I watch it about this time is like when Leechin's character says when he's when he when Suddy's saying, you know you must miss coach, you must be looked forward to the seasons sitting so you can spend more time with them. And she says, my god, you don't know a thing about it, do you.

Yeah, I think it's more from the book maybe than in the movie. But but yeah, I think that, you know, talking about sexuality in this movie, it kind of goes hand in hand with this movie's view of marriage, which there is not a really successful or happy.

Marriage in this movie.

And it almost feels like sex is something that stops happening when you get married, you know, and jac is certainly like kind of positioning marriage is something that you know has to happen in order for there to be sex. But it's all moved from the idea of desire and you know, like people, you know, all these characters are sort of chasing the idea of desire and to the extent that they you know, achieve it or pleasure as a result of it, is like outside of marriage, you know,

I mean, it just kind of feels like nothing is left in this town. Nothing is holding together, no no institution,

If I think that's where Sunny gets that sense too. I think that's like the final straw for.

Him, oh for sure, which you know he and he pushes back against it, you know, he comes in with this level of emotion and anger against their complete inhumanity. But I mean in the end, if like if a small town can't rally around one of their own, what, you know, whose life was carelessly lost. If if they can't, if a small Texas town can't rise up against an outsider that killed one of their own, like what even is this town anymore?

That's a good point.

I would make somewhat of a distinction here because I think you're absolutely right about the town as this organism. But I think that the film is also has so many moments of great humanity where characters as individuals, you know, show each other some mercy and some sympathy and affection.

You know.

Again, it's it's all, it's all incredibly sad, but at least there's a certain amount of warmth that's present in the film.

Still, Okay, wait, back up, I don't think she loses her virginity to Abilene. Like there. First of all, we see her going like back to the hotel with Dwayne and saying that, you know, she still doesn't think he did it right, and she should he shouldn't be proud of himself, but he seems pretty smug and she needed to lose her virginity in order to go be with Bobby. So that she goes to be with Bobby, but then

I mean, it's still it's still a pretty upsetting scenario.

That said, when she does have sex with Abilene, I wish there was a little more grace from him, because again, this is somebody who you know is coming to the table, the pool table, as it were, with with sexual experience, and with sexual experience with her mother. Who if if there's anybody in this movie that one would think would demand pleasure out of sex, it would be her mom. And yet he really treats her like a wooden doll, and she responds like a wooden doll. It's again, just

I also want to highlight an earlier scene, which is when Genevieve welcomes Sonny back into the diner and gives him a hamburger after Sam bans them for you know, messing with Billy that night, and you know, it's just sort of the forgiveness that Genevieve and then by extension, Sam gives him and sort of the recognition of him having messed up and realizing he's messed up, and recognizing this moment of growth in this young man and rewarding it, I guess, and I kind of feel like the last

Man as a Jenny, if you and I have talked about the experience of getting emotional over structure or just over quality, I'm getting a little emotional thinking about that Sam moment because it's just it's so well done. You know, there isn't a big confrontation. He basically just says, your band get out. You don't have access to the any of the community things that I run, which is all of them in like just realizing how completely they could

The thing about Sam generally is that obviously kind of holding the town together financially, I mean in the sense that he's got these you know, he's got these.

Whatever vitality he can claim to have is because these businesses that he owns and keeps open. But also he's also the glue, you know, emotionally as well. And you know, you think about a moment like that, or a moment when he gives Dwayne and Sonny a little bit of money and some good advice for the little trip to Mexico.

I mean, he's able to just.

See people in a deep way, like really understand where their head is at and and kind of respond accordingly, like he he like like that gesture, you know, I think speaks to his insight, you know, into how these boys are feeling at this specific moment in their lives.

It's also just a very you know, giving you some money to make sure you have a good trip is also just a very dad move. And given what we see of, you know, the relationships that those boys have with their families, the relationships families have in general, Sam stepping in as kind of an everybody's dad figure in general just kind of leads us back to the point where, you know, when he dies, the town loses. It's not just its central figure, but kind of its father figure.

I was thinking this while watching at this time, is that, like this actually is a really good movie for us to have named ourselves after, because so much of this movie is just built around, like the relationship between the

I don't know, I love it, Like you know, JC and her Mom. It's like the like a classic film and a new release, those two right, lots of connections between those two right, good good good contrasts and then and then experiences that mirror each.

Other and Sonny and Sam. You know that's a good pairing. Lots of connections.

There, did ye see?

I was just thinking in terms of, yeah, this is a very appropriate movie for like the death of an era and what comes next for the people involved. This is a pretty trenchant movie to have named ourselves after.

Well, so, which brings me kind of this question, was it was it a good idea for us to name our film site after an editing process where image disappears in the name of our podcast after a movie where the only theater in town shuts down.

What usolve isn't is it something disappearing? It's something transitioning into the next stage exactly.

What's what's another? What's another? What's the other? What's another word for death? Transitioning?

Well, and okay, I'm I'm I'm going I'm going to be firm that, like I think this this is not as cynical a connection as we are making it out to be, because you know, the in the end, Sonny and Duayane they do go see a movie together and it's a movie they've seen before, you know, a good, good, good movie. Yeah, I've seen it here before, you know. And they do connect at the movies, you know, and repeatedly, and it's not necessarily even about the quality of the

You know, they're behind us. Details for the making of this movie is that Baldanavich said that that McMurty doesn't like movies, and in the novel it was just some some crappy bee Western and he, you know, Bodanovitch, wanted to be something really good. So that's why it's red River in the film.

Well, The Last Picture Show is available for digital rental on Apple TV, Amazon, and weirdly no place else. It's also on Criterion DVD and Blu Ray. We'll be right back with a game, all right.

So we would normally.

Wrap up our episode about a classic film with feedback, but this isn't any old episode, so we're doing something else. Genevieve, let me pass the mic over to you on this one.

So those of you who have been with us since the Dissolved days may recall that on the podcast we did at the Dissolve, the cleverly named the Dissolved Podcast. We would frequently engage in some games, trivia based games, and back in those days, we were all like sitting around a table together, you know, and we had these lovely barnyard buzzers that we used to ring in for

Scott?

Okay, this is I am a cow. Here we go, Tasha.

I'm not saying what I'm I am. If you can't get it from the sound, I want. I want everybody to be sure to like hear that sound, because they might not hear it again because I'm terrible at these games.

All right. And of course Keith.

So a little behind the scenes detail jenf who ordered these for us, like, yeah, I drove over to Scott to drop off his and and and he's taking Tasha's and I was like, well, I don't need to choose one. I realized I always chose. I had forgotten this until I looked at it. I was like, no, I have a favorite. I always chose the horse, so I have now the horse again.

So you should maybe specify, like we always referred to these as the barnyard buzzers. I assume that this is a brand name. Like the box sitting on the floor behind me is completely unmarked. You know, it might have come from like any wharehouse anywhere. It's as anonymous as possible. But I assume that you call them the barnyard buzzers because that's like what they what they are on the listing when you buy them.

That's what they were when I bought them the first time. And then when I looked them up for this, I wrote in barnyard buzzers, and this is what came up. So but I think it's like they are very much the same ones, but but they came in like an eight.

Pack, right, so like original additional barnyard buzzers for people to potentially buzz in.

I think like the generic name is just like learning aid or something like classroom learning aid.

Oh geez, you know what really helps me learn?

I would love to have, Like, yeah, just I wish this were You're almost heading towards the story about having gotten these on the black market, like black market Barnyard buzzers that would have been cool, like you on the dark web.

Somehow whatever Chinese factory is churning these out like it's very clearly using the same pattern, because I, I mean, I remember the rooster was read previously, and this has to be the same, the exact same, like very simple line art cartoon of a rooster on it. I definitely recognize Scott's like simple smiling.

Cow yeah, And I recognize Keith's buzzer stands too, like he always always held it right right there. But that means that we are ready to play a game. I have created a game based on this podcast, on the history of our podcast. I have scoured through five hundred for well four hundred and ninety nine episodes to come up with a ray of questions.

So bear with me. I tried to make this difficult, but not too difficult.

So I'm aware that none of our memories are what they once were, but hopefully, hopefully we'll be able to squeeze a point or two out out of each of you. So everyone ready, Barnyard Buzzer is locked and loaded.

Locked and all right.

So we're gonna have mine is cocked and loaded, all.

Right, So we're gonna have a few different rounds here. And for this first round, I will ask you a question. I will give you all five seconds to buzz in and answer the question for two points. If no one buzzes in, then I will give you multiple choice options and if you get it for that, if you get the multiple choice, then you get one point. Makes sense, So yeah, yeah, five seconds to answer off the top of your head for two points, and then you can try again.

With multiple choice for one point.

Okay, first question, what is the oldest classic film we have covered on this podcast?

Tasha, I'm gonna guess it might be Carnival of Souls.

No, it is not, Tasha.

Did we do the original Frankenstein at once and didn't I pronounce it Frankenstein like every single time?

That is it Frankenstein?

I truly don't know Frankenstein. Frankenstein?

It is? It is not Frankenstein, Tasha.

Scott invisible man.

Nope, Oh my.

God, we haven't done any silence.

All right, I'm gonna get I'm gonna give you guys multiple choice now a Frankenstein, B King Kong C. M.

D The Thin Man Tasha.

Of those four, if it isn't Frankenstein, I think King Kong is the earliest. It is not you know, I said nobody was going to hear this rooster again, and then I've buzzed in like three times and been wrong every time.

Am I am?

I cruing negative points.

The Thin Man, guys, it's m and is the oldest movie on that.

Older I'm pre dates Frankenstein by a few months.

Yeah, yep, I'm was in.

May of nineteen thirty one and Frankenstein was in November of nineteen thirty one.

Wow, that's really hard, Holy cow hard. It's really hard to crap out, to crap out as badly as we did on that.

We just literally guess everything. But I'm so excited about the visible.

Nay, we gonna do some silence at some point, I get what we haven't.

It's kind of hard to come up with clips for a silence.

True, this is true.

Yeah, that opening montage is difficult, and it's just some some rollicking piano music and then dead dead air.

All right, moving on to the next question. Let's hope this goes a little better. Among our classic films, what has been the most frequent release theater five seconds to buzz in.

Wow, Keith, I'm just shot at d say, nineteen seventy two, No I was born.

Just to clarify once again, we're not getting negative points for well, yes, that's.

Right, you can, Tasha.

Wasn't it nineteen fifty five that Scott wrote up for like the greatest movie year of all time? For the Dissolve?

I did, But I don't know if we I don't know if we ever if we cover that. We've covered that as much from that from that year, I.

Think I did, you know, I think I did seventy two for that. Actually, I think I was pretty eighty club actually that now that I think about it.

Okay, we have covered one We have covered one film from nineteen fifty five, and we have covered three films from nineteen seventy two. Okay, I made a whole spreadsheet.

Guys, Oh my god, you.

Way too much. If you said, how many films we cover it from this year?

In question?

I can do that or I can give you multiple choice.

Yeah, let's do that.

The most frequently release year, was it nineteen eighty two, two thousand and one, nineteen seventy three or nineteen ninety.

Nine, Scott, which one was not eighty two?

Noe, Jennery?

If you just broke my heart. You you are saying that movies released in two thousand and one are now considered classic movies.

I'm gonna say. I'm going to say nineteen ninety nine. Nope, the subject of a book called the best movie year ever, but apparently not by our standards.

Wow, Tasha, would you care?

Two?

Yes, it's one of us.

What was the what was the nineteen eighties?

It was?

It was an eighties?

I guess that one. That was wrong.

What are retaining choices?

Nineteen seventy three or two thousand and one?

Knowing us, I'm going to say two thousand and.

One, it is two thousand and one, with a heavy heart.

Classic films.

We have covered eleven films from two thousand and one. I'm not going to tell you what they are, though, because they might come up in other questions.

Okay, wow, eleven.

Tasha is on the board, barely going.

Great like this point two thousand and one classic movies. This is this is like when I'm in the grocery store and I hear a ninety song and then some DJ comes on and says, you know, classics one oh one, playing the classics, I.

Mean, if it makes you feel better.

Nineteen ninety nine, we did ten, so we only have one fewer from nineteen ninety nine, so at least you know, oh yeah.

Well that's that's two years older than.

I think in another ten years nineteen nine, I don't catch up because there's a ton for that from that year.

All right.

Next question, which of our pairings had the shortest span of time in between the classic and new film?

Scott John Carter?

That is it? John Carter and the Martials. Oh nice, one of our very first pairings.

It was very, very controversial for us to call that a classic film come back.

We probably could have done, could have done better Carter Defender, but but yeah, that was a little that was a bit of a stretch.

Yeah, so we just wanted to talk about John Carter of Mars.

It was.

It was a fun discussion, it.

Was, and for fun, I will share the other one on the multiple choice and how far apart they were, because they're the next smallest span of time. Dog Tooth and Kajillionaire had eleven years between them. Rachel getting married and Shiva Baby have twelve years between them and Under the Skin and No One Will Save You.

Has ten years between them?

Oh wow, not even close.

Really, the John Carter in The Martian at a three year separation.

Okay, three years? Oh my god, I'm all right myself.

All right.

Now, this next question you can get a lot of points. This is a two part question. If you answer the first part correctly, you have first shot at accruing bonus points. But the second part of the question, okay, part one, which director is responsible for the most films covered on the podcast, both classic and recent?

I got Spielberg given that description. Nope, hmmm Steven Spielberg.

To clarify, nope, No, you're close though, Okay a long June ho B, Spike Lee, C Steven Spielberg or D Steven Soderbergh.

Tasha, Well, only one of those is close to Steven Spielberg. Steven Soderberg.

That is it. It is Steven Soderberg.

So now, Tasha, you get first chance at the bonus points question, which, for one point each name as many of the nine Soderberg films we've covered as you can. If you guess incorrectly or go five seconds without guessing another film, it opens up to the rest of the group to buzz Benny Lee.

And go, I know we did presence recently. Didn't we do Logan Lucky?

We did?

Did we do sex liizes in videotape?

Nope?

You're out all right?

All right, Keith Scott, all right, okay, the limey Yes, that's three mm hmm, Oceans eleven, Yes.

That's for I got five seconds. Huh, but they keep talking. It's fine, right. Do we do King to Hill? Do we do King of the Hill?

We did not?

Incura, did you do that some day?

Can I Can I do some stuff?

Yep, yep, Scott Magic, Mike XXL Mike last Dance.

Yes, I'll give it to you and uh.

And then also Aaron Brokovic.

Nope, we never did Aaron brock.

Does it come back around to me?

No?

I think I think for the sake, Sorry, I've got angry.

I've got a very angry Coyle right now. I thought we did some sort of like thing with.

That and maybe the uh the Todd Haynes uh environment environmental.

No, That's why I wanted to we talked back in because what didn't we do?

Uh?

Didn't we do? I'm not there, but.

I mean, I mean connecting with the Haynes though, which is more recent anyway.

No, well, you we talked. I believe we entertained that, but we never actually did it. So in the interest of moving on, I'm gonna call it there. But the ones you missed are contagion.

Nothing that happened during COVID counts for anything. Nobody's expected to remember anything that happened during a two year time period.

High Flying Bird.

Kimmy Jimmy damn it experiments black bag stuff not the old stuff facility. Geez.

All right, all right, so current score bonus points helped a little. Tasha's in the lead with four, Scott is at two, and Keith is also at two.

I have three, I have three.

I buzz didn't for one without going to multiple choice, and then I did one of the sods three.

All right, now we're moving into around. There are multiple answers to each of these questions. You get one point per correct answer. Once you buzz, you have ten seconds to answer as many as you can, and then it opens back.

Up to the others to buzz.

We have done three pairings based on a new TV show. You at one point for each TV show you can name.

It's been a while.

It's west World, yes, and then also a new television show called.

Nope, that's I got nothing. I got west World.

All right.

We've done three yep, and it's been a while. I think we kind of like let that idea fut the wayside.

Not that long, Keith, you should be getting one of these.

Maybe West World was the only one of those that I was on.

All right, yay, wait, wait, no, we did. We did the the uh Lord of the Rings TV show.

We did do the Rings of.

Power, Rings of Power, right, Rings of Power. That's that's two.

All right.

I'll give it to you even though time is very expired. Sorry slipt Okay.

This is this is like old people playing game shows very slow.

All right.

The last one was The Last of Us, which we paired with Children of Men. Oh yeah, oh wow, I would if anyone had guessed Watchman, I would have given it to you on a technicality because we also did a bonus like third episode with our Dark Knight.

And the Joker pairing of the Watchman TV show.

Oh wow, I'm so proud of that version of us from the past that I don't remember at all.

All right, next question, There are quotes from three films in our intro music for one point each. Name those films.

I haven't actually listened to a live episode in a long time.

You know what, I don't know that I couldn't. I could. I think I could name all three quotes, but I don't think.

Don't get any One is from Buzz Buzz.

Magnolia.

Correct the Graduate where he goes we're going to talk about art? Oh no, this film's funny. Never mind.

What kind of a show are you running here?

Damn? That's all I got, all right.

The other two are Gray Gardens and Vertigo.

Yes, it's great, but I love her intro, but I haven't listened to it, so.

It's almost like you guys don't listen to it every single week when you medd the podcast.

True, true, All right.

Well, Scott has pulled into the lead with five points, and Keith and Tasha are tied at four. I'm almost afraid to ask this question.

But.

If they go up in complexity, were doomed.

This is pretty complex, but I do want to ask it because I think it's an interesting data point. There are three directors who have made more than one feature film who have had all of those films be part of appairing on this podcast. So we have covered their filmography and they have made more than one movie.

Name those directors. There are three of them.

That we've covered, all of their movies.

All of their future films, all of.

Their feature films made more than one mm. Hmmm mmm, wow, it's interesting data point. You're correct.

It has to be at least three films that they've.

Made, no, just more than one.

More than one, so at least two.

There aren't a lot of like two film wonders out there that I can think of.

I guess Scott Gerwig.

Nope, oh really, shoot, I should have guessed the one that I thought that the other one that I.

Knew thought I knew.

Damn it.

What do we not do with Gerwig's.

All right, I'm cutting you guys off there?

Oh, no kind of guess one just now that I know I eliminated myself by Buzzy.

Is Emerald Fennel one of them? Nope, we do need to sell Burned, all right.

They are Jordan Peele Okay, oh sure, Celine.

Song who has only done who has only done two films, and Emma Seligman, who has also only done two films.

Wow, is that interesting? Yeah, that would have been a real poll. Yeah.

I thought I thought you guys might get Jordan Peel.

Yeah, that would have been good. I was stuck on Cogonata and trying to remember what his first film was, because I knew it was, you know, much beloved to some people here. But I don't think we ever did Columbus Columbus, and we.

Do the big, big Beautiful Journey either.

Yeah, but no, that's that's only been out for three seconds.

To Beautiful Journey.

All right, Well, this is a multiple choice question, multiple choice only for one point, and it's hopefully an easier version of that last question.

So taking those.

Three filmmakers in our one hundred percent club out of the equation, as well as again filmmakers with only one film, which filmmaker has had the highest percentage of their overall filmography discussed on the show A David Lowry, b Akiva Shaffer, see Chloe Joo or d Greta Gerwig.

Oh my god, Tasha, I'm gonna go with David Lowry.

Nope, we've only done four out of his eight.

Oh my goodness.

Uh, I'm just trying to think of percentages here.

I'm gonna say, I think we've done two.

Thirds of we've done three fourths four, three out of four and it is it is Gwig. We have done Little Little Woman, Ladybird, and Barbie Movie.

And we're not counting nights and weekends when she co directed. I guess, but yeah, yeah, man, I know trivia. I know trivia.

There.

I was there for that. I was there. I was there for that. The last answer, I just didn't realize that.

And we were there for all of this. That's the whole point of this.

You know what I'm saying.

All right, Next question, This requires less memory on your guys's part. More more vibes. Another multiple choice. Which of the following pairings has the biggest differential in Rotten Toto's score between the old and new film oh A Rear Window and The Woman in the Window, B, Jaws and the Meg C, Jurassic Park in Jurassic World, Dominion or D The Brady Bunch Movie and Baywatch.

Keith, I think it's.

A because everyone hated Woman in the Window.

It is a too rare.

Window has ninety nine percent on Rotten Tomatoes and Woman in the Window has twenty five percent. All Right, Keith pulls ahead.

Hey, it feels like old times. All right.

Yeah, I can't remember any movies that we've ever covered, but I do remember Keith running away with every game we would report.

Oh all right, all right, Well, now we are moving into the lightning round. This is the Rotten Tomatoes lightning round. And I would like to issue a disclaimer up front. I know we do not love Rotten Tomatoes.

In this house.

We observe a critic, but Metacritic does not have as many reviews of older films.

What you know, what though, I am a top critic on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic does not host the reviewals reviews, so I have I've switched my allegiance on pro A great Prota.

All right, all right, well then screw that disclaimer.

This is the just out of curious, just out of curiosity? Are we all top critics on Rotten Tomatoes?

I don't. I'm a top critic? No you're not, top, Tasha Robinson?

No, No I am, we are, But Metacritic also hostsmiring my reviews.

They just got to get with a newsletter revolution. Here we are leading the Keith and I are up front on.

All right, So this one you are not going to need the buzzers for because we are just going around the horn. Okay, okay, what I am going to do this is dedicated to our director director pairing. So we do two films by the same director, and I am going to give you the two films in that pairing by the same director, and you tell me which has the higher Rotten Tomatoes score.

Oh okay, all.

Right, Keith.

Since you're in the lead, we'll start with you from our Sam Raimi pairing. Does Army of Darkness or Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness have a higher Rotten Tomatoes score.

I'm going to say based on I think Army of Darkness got fairly mixed reviews of the time, so I think it's going to be Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

You are correct, that's good.

That's good. Touff.

Keith, all right, deduction bad result though, yeah, yeah.

And it was close.

Army of Darkness has sixty nine percent and Multiverse has seventy three percent. That's all right, Scott, Moving on to you our bos Lureman pairing.

Okay, Mulan Rouge or Elvis.

Oh no, I think Elvis.

You are correct.

Critics have gotten softer between a lot.

I mean, they've definitely gotten more numerous.

Yeah, there's that too, all.

Right, Tasha, from our David Cronenberg pairing, the Fly or the shrouds.

Oh, now, see, I'm going to feel like such a sucker if I if I if I go with my heart here and it turns out that I should have learned from like the last two examples. But I think the shrouds critics were kind of like pro on it, but also kind of baffled, whereas the fly was was met with just such enthusiasm. I'm going to say the fly on this one.

You are correct.

The fly has ninety three percent to the shrouds seventy six.

Yeah, I didn't see it was it seemed like a trick question just to ask.

It was like, I pretty much, look, people like the fly, this chroud founds a little more mixed.

All right.

This one will also probably be pretty easy. But Keith, back to you from our m Night Shyamalan pairing. We've done a few of them, but this one was unbreakable and glass.

I mean, I know Unbreakable wasn't as warmly received as sixth Sense, but it definitely. I think I got better reviews overaw than class.

Yes, you are correct.

Unbreakablle has seventy two glasses thirty seven.

I don't care how so yeah, all right, Scott R.

Nicole Holli Center pairing Yay Lovely and Amazing versus you Hurt my feelings?

Oh wow, that's tougher. That is tough.

I actually just wrote about you hurt my feelings in reference to Pluribus, believe it or not. But I am going to say, boy, this is really tough because I think they're probably pretty damn close.

I'm going to say, you hurt my feelings.

You are correct, that's close, though, right, They're tight, not as close as I would have thought.

Lovely and Amazing is eighty six to you Hurt my Feelings ninety five?

Oh whoa.

I think I think respect for her just generally has as climbed as people have gotten to know her, Like Lovely Amazing was just like was a pretty early one from her.

Yeah, all right, Tasha, this is a gimme from our Pixar pairing.

I will take you can give me.

This is not a director This is a Pixar pairing toy story versus the Good Dinosaur.

Okay, let me let me, let me let me go back historically, think about like different aspects of this, like you know, leading critics, so like like believe, what do I remember about the reviews? My own feelings at the Yes, we can move on.

Now you gotta say it Toy Story Okay, yes, slightly, I am.

I am assuming like one or two points higher than Good.

Toy Story has on Rotten Tomatoes to the Good Dinosaurs seventy six.

Wow, it's generous to the Good Dinosaur.

Keith are A George Miller pairing Mad Max versus Furiosa.

Original Mad Max huh hm, okay, okay, I think it's going to be the whole like more review. I know Furiosa wasn't as warmly received as as Fury Road, but I think Mad Max wasn't really taken all that seriously with the initial reviews. But then Rotten Tomato does like retrospective reviews. Oh that's tough, this is tough. I'm gonna go with my gut and say that furios Is rating is higher even if Mad Max is more revered as a classic filmic.

Correct you correct, Furiosa has ninety percent to Mad Max's eighty nine percent.

Oh wow, Well gimme though, was it?

Yeah?

Impressive?

All right, Scott?

Yes?

Are Chris Smith pairing okay, nice American movie versus Fire?

Wow? Damn the fire.

I'm gonna say fire because there was always like people are making fun of those guys in an American movie.

American movie has ninety four to fires ninety three?

Oh all right?

And last last one, Tasha, I actually don't think you were on this pairing unfortunately, but you might still be able to figure it out. Are Jonathan Demi cont movie pairing Stop Making Sense versus Justin Timberlake and the Tennessee Kids.

See.

Based on how these questions have been going, it feels like the margins have been narrowing, so I'm going to assume that this one is like half a point between them or less. But the fact that Stopped Making Sense recently got a retrospective release, like an anniversary release that would have been an excuse for a lot of current people who didn't review it back in the day to review it from the perspective of this is an all time classic makes me think stop Stop making Sense.

You are correct, although both have on Rotten Tomatoes, But stop making Sense has seventy reviews to Justin Timberlakes fourteen reviews.

So when I said they were only half a point apart from each other, I was actually more accurate than I realized. It's great, congratulations narrowing.

People disliked either one of those.

I like themblike movie the Youth. I do, I do. It's just it's not something I think.

What we were right, What we revealed here is how flawed a metric Rotten Tomatoes is because I think if you actually go on the it doesn't do a good job of measuring passion.

And I think, and I think.

There were only fourteen of reviews.

But just like in terms of like, but even stuff like like if you were to say, I wonder what Metacritic would say was the difference between those two films. I think it would be more significant because because people feel more passionately in favor. But everyone likes both films. You know which you should? They're good films, all right.

So that was the Ron Tomatoes lightning round. That was interesting.

Keith is still in the lead with nine points and Scott and Tasha are tied at seven apiece. Oh man, So now we have individual bonus questions, one for each of you, each worth three points. These our tailor to you specifically.

Wow.

So I'm going to start.

With Scott scot I know about myself.

Which of the following Martin Scorsese films have we not covered on the show? A Taxi Driver, b Silence, see Casino, d Rolling Thunder Review, A Bob Dylan's Story.

Okay, go go through those again.

Please, Taxi Driver, Silence, Casino, and Rolling Thunder Review.

Okay, we've definitely done. Shoot, have we done it? I know we've done it. Rolling Thunder Review. I can't.

I can say that that that has happened. Why it feels like we've done casino?

Maybe?

Holy Cow, taxi Driver, it seems yes, surely, surely we've had it some occasion to do that. I'm gonna say Casino.

That is wrong. We have done Casino.

No, what's the one we haven't done?

Silence?

Okay?

Shoot, I thought maybe we would have found something to pair out with when it came out we just.

We paired casino with hustlers.

Oh, okay, there you go. Thought about that.

Okay, shoot, I didn't didn't know my own guy.

Yeh, all right, Keith, which of the following, thank you. Which of the following Nicholas Cage films have we not covered on the show?

Wait?

Wait, wait, why is Keith's question regarding Nicholas Cage.

It's still in stores Age Caged. You know, there was a rumor that it was pulled from the shelves. You couldn't buy any more. That's not true.

Banned in thirteen states so far, but the rest you can still you can still get it or get it.

Through the mail.

And add to our Japanese listeners, there's a Japanese version coming out at some point. I've been I've been seeing them corrections and things like that, so that's super cool.

All right, Well, let's see if you can tell me which of the following Nicholas cagels we have not covered on the show. A Raising Arizona, B adaptation see Long Legs D The Wickerman.

All right, I know we did Long Legs. Yes, looking, okay, I know we did Raising Arizona. Mhm. And what was that leaves the other one? Right? The adaptation we've never done the wicker Man.

We've done the original wicker Man, not the Nicholas Cage.

Yeah, there would be really absolutely He's interview a pairing with the Uh.

All right, all right, Tasha, but the memes? All right, let me guess, is this Pixar?

It is.

Which of the following Pixar films have we not covered on the show? The Incredibles to, Inside Out, to, Toy Story two or Finding Dory Toy Story two?

Correct?

Damn yeah?

I feel like if we like, I know, we covered the original Toy Story as a pairing, and like the more recent ones would have been within our window. But I the kind of circumstances that would be necessary for to come up with a movie that we would then pair with the second movie in a series that would be complicated.

I mean, we've we've done Incredibles, to, Inside Out, to and Finding Dory. So this was the Pixar sequels.

Memento, Mementa, No, it was right, But I think the other three we covered as they came out, as each.

Of them came out. And I don't remember when Toy Story two was, but it was before twenty fifteen, I believe, So I would say, God are covering it new.

Good deduction all right. So our current score is Keith with twelve points, Tasha with ten points, and Scott still with seven all right, this is our last question. Final question A questions. This is our final question. It is a winner takes all catch the snitch situation.

Point.

Guys, it's five.

It's five hundred points in honor of our five hundredth episode. Oh nice, without looking at the script, please tell me the phone number. Listeners can call to leave us a voicemail for feedback.

Oh, I hate you. I barely know my own phone numberge monster.

Oh well, I don't know my daughter's phone number. By the way, she didn't she has a phone writer. Put it in the contact.

That's why it's a five hundred point question.

Guys, can I can I guess five? Five?

Five?

Shall?

No?

I got it wrong?

Wait, all right, just do random, Just do random. Nine. I'm gonna say the number and if I beep it out if I get it wrong enough, beause somebody's phone number in my life? Is it seventh?

Oh?

You know what? I think it's scott'stubborn.

No, definitely put Scott's personal sell on the podcast.

Positive Scott's all right.

I feel sorry for you, guys, so I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you the first the area code and the first three numbers.

If you can talk me about.

It's a rhythm thing. It's a rhythm thing. I wrote this.

Okay, all right, you can leave us voicemail at seven seven three two three four.

Nine seven three zero Scott you us, Oh baby, yeah, yeah I was. I was just feeding the little hamsters in my brain. The wheels started moving.

Thank you guys.

Wait wait wait wait wait wait you know the round of buzzers real quickly. Just let him fly.

So my my own little, my own, little uh piece of trivia. What classic film divided us most along gender lines? Actually, because I think we all know that one.

I actually did write a question about this. I did write a question about this and decided not to include it. But why not, we'll do it now. As we all know, mash was early and early divisive film. Name the other film in that pairing, and at least two people who starred in it.

Oh, I think I could get to the film.

It was with Tango Fox Trot, starring Tina Fey and Christopher Abbott as a Middle Eastern man like the whole like you know, which which is like this whole thing where it's like, I love Christopher Abbot's really good performance, but I don't think it actually exists.

You know, I would not have gotten to Christopher Abbot if.

You remember I think its remember it because of the whole like sort of like you know, that sort of uncomfortable to it.

We were also accepted a we could also accept a trivia question. What is the letterboxed review that Tasha still gets the most absolute shop for on a week to week basis? Oh, it's it's mash. I mean, it's interesting. It's really I feel like I've talked about this before. It's about a two thirds split between you know, thank you for being the person who finally said it. This movie is terrible and you need to die. Here's a

Wow.

Well, I'm glad you can laugh about it, Tasha.

It's just so you know, there there have been movies that I have felt, I guess more hesitant in my response to, or you know, movies while where I felt intimidated to speak my truth to in the face of other people's strong disagreement. But I know how I feel about that movie and why, and I know why a lot of the haters are coming for me on it, and I have no sympathy for them. So I'm all good.

Jenevieve. I have a question for you to be a question time the fact that you're drinking at Doctor Pepper. You got Doctor Pepper figures problem and last picture show what three numbers are on the vintage Doctor Pepper bottles and why what do they mean?

I have no idea.

Okay, well, why would I know that it's not on my spreadsheet of all of our.

Ten two and four because the advertising campaign was you were supposed to have a Doctor Pepper three times a day ten at two four zero zero dentist. Actually that as as.

I had, I have never, even even in my darkest moments, have not considered cracking open to dr Pepper at ten o'clock in the.

Morment man, well, you know dropping coke zero and I cannot make that same, cannot say I.

Have definitely had that. As somebody who does not drink coffee and never has, and whose only caffeine consumption pretty much comes in the form of diet Doctor Pepper, there have been days when I actually want a ten am Doctor Pepper. I don't let myself have that. I have never had a piping hot Doctor Pepper at ten in the morning or otherwise.

Piping hot Werners, which is a local brand of ginger Ale, is an old wives cure here in Michigan. It's supposed to help an upset stomach.

Offers.

You kind of just don't necessarily know where this podcast is going to go sometimes, Geneviev, thank you for that quiz. It was elaborate and impressive and exciting and it was fun to do that again. And that actually is it for this very special edition of The Next Picture Show. But we'll be back next week with a new set of episodes. Genevieve, can you tell us about our next pairing?

Set in the Pacific Northwest during the early twentieth century, the new film Train Dreams, based on Dennis Johnson's novella, is an American epic told on an intimate scale, following a logger and railway worker from Idaho played by Joel Edgerton. The film is about an ordinary man who lives quietly and in obscurity, but nonetheless has a hand in shaping the country. He is like a dot in a point

For now, we welcome your feedback on the Last Picture Show, the Next Picture Show, and anything else firm related. Do you like to talk about Email us at comments at next pictureshow dot net, or leave us a voicemail at seven seven three two three four nine seven three zero that number that you've memorized.

Before we close out this week's episode. Where can we find everyone these days?

Tasha Robinson, Well, you can find me at the phone number seven seven three. I am the entertainment editor at Polygon dot com. You can find my my writing and my curation of other people's writing there. You can find me on Blue Sky at Tasha Robinson Keith what about you?

You can find We'll start with social media first. You can find me at mostly at blue Kay at k fifth three thousand. I'm on other social media sites there as well, uh, under that handle as well. You can find me contributing sometimes to places like TV Guide and The Ringer and Vulture and Slate recently, but you can mostly find me at the Reveal the Reveal dot film, which is the movies newsletter that I co author with Scott Tobias. Oh, and one quick plog I can talk

Same place? Yeah, That's where I'm doing a lot of my writing. Of course. You can find me on Blue Sky at Scott Tobias.

You can find me on GeoCities. Now you can't find me there MySpace. You can find me also in a Vulture or the New York Times or a Guardians, also the Los Angeles Times. I've done a couple of things for Los Angeles Times and other other fine publications. What about you, Genevieve, I am the.

TV editor at Vulture, editing TV things and occasional movie things, and I am on social media posting rarely as Genevieve Kowski.

You can stay updated on the Next Picture Show at Next Picture Show dot net and I'm Blue Sky at the Next Picture Show. Get bonus content and opendiscussion at Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show, and as always we appreciate your rating and reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistants producing this podcast, The Next Picture Show is proud to be part of the Film spot family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

Congratulations again to the Next Picture Show. As someone who listens to every episode, I can say here is to another five hundred now access to the film Spotting archive, which we usually share in this feed, plus monthly bonus shows and even more. Those are some of the benefits of joining the film Spotting Family. So if you would like to support the show by joining the family, you can do that at film spottingfamily dot com.

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