Interview: Josh & Benny Safdie (Archive)

Adam.

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There you go, So jump on that this week out of our gracious hearts, we're going to give you for free, Adam. It's your interview with Josh and Benny Safti about Uncut JEMs.

Yeah, and it's funny, Josh, I haven't listened to this yet. Re listened to it, and I just went back and looked at my notes for the interview and the questions that I had jotted down. You'll never believe some of the words and phrases that are littering the page in front of me. As we just recorded our review of Marty Supreme that's coming later in the week. I've got things like single mindedly focused on their objective and spiraling out of control and larger purpose. So there are some

I made a crazy risk.

We've gambled limbs about to pay off. So I want to Celtics to cover.

I want to Celtics hand time. I want gone at points and rebound.

What do you know?

I don't know.

I just know. Well, I'll tell you what I know. That's the dumbest that I ever heard of.

I disagree.

I disagree.

Gary.

We last spoke for Good Time back in twenty seventeen, and I think it's fair to say there's a lot of Connie in Howard here in this film. They're both kind of single mindedly focused on whatever their objective is, though their objectives are very different, and we'll definitely get in to that. But there's that sense of the urgency of the moment always bringing out kind of the best in them or the worst in them, which is something

Well, it's kind of not. No.

The answer answer is no, But the longer answer is what happens when you spend ten years working on a project. That's how long we're working on Uncut Gems. So Connie and his creation was basically was the whole film. Good Time came about because Pattinson wanted to work with us and he wasn't right for any role in Uncut Gems, and it led to the creation of Good Time. And actually Benny's character in Good Time was originally in Uncut

And I think it's it also makes sense to just kind of see a character who you might not at first see the beauty in or the understanding in, and kind of trying to understand to see the love in them or understanding And that's what Uncut Gems is, you know, It's the rough on the outside of beautiful.

And the difference for me between Gems and Good Time, you know, is that the Connie character was slightly more anthropological in the sense that I can I've seen that person before, I know people like that. There are tiny little pieces of mean it, but it's for more or less study. Whereas Gems there's a lot of me and Howard there's a lot of you know, there's a lot of personal stuff in that movie that maybe wasn't in Good Time, not to denigrate Good Time in any way.

Well, I want to stay on this path for a second, because, as you said, they're both kind of con men at their core, right, self destructive, always the sense of things kind of spiraling out of control around them. But Connie is sympathetic and that we can definitely appreciate his larger purpose, which is to keep his brother played by you Benny, out of jail. We know he needs to be protected. We're on board with that. So I feel like for most viewers getting to a place where the end justifies

It's the first time i've heard it.

I don't Well, so that's that's where I was going, is that I feel like he's more irredeemable, And I wondered if that was part of the challenge and fun for you with this project, or if you discard that completely and you see him as redeemable.

I see Howard as as the ultimate provider. I think that he's a you know, Connie's kind of does a lot of you know, really, he's.

Also the reason that the brothers in jail in the first place, you know, true.

Yes, So it's like kind of a look.

I mean, Howard is such a this character Sandler place, and also Sandler in general is a notoriously lovable person. And I think that Howard is is. I think that he's ultimately a righteous person. And I don't I don't see him as a con man. I don't think that he has any con that he's pulling he's trying to pull off in this film. I think that he's he's actually he's just trying the con might be to prove that he belongs in a society that actually might say

But it's funny though, because I do. You know.

I remember when Scott Ruden, who's one of the producers of this film, when he read it, he said the opposite when he read the script. He was like, you know, the difference here is that you know, Howard's a guy you can love.

Where's Connie you can't?

Thing, Yeah, And I think it's Howard does bring the best out of the people around him. You know, he creates this environment where everybody has to say in some ways. And I think with him he also knows when he does know when he's going to do something, how it will affect other people. And I think he knows that

You do need to.

Root for him. And when people are yelling at the screen, oh, don't do that, don't do this, don't want him to do it. If you didn't like somebody or didn't love somebody, you wouldn't really be yelling at the screen to get them to stop.

The film is called uncut Gems, Uh, you know, by design obviously, Uh, we don't just pick random words out of a hat. But you know, the concept of something being considered or deemed unvaluable on the outside because of rough impressions.

Uh.

And when you scope down underneath it and get to something, you get to the insides of of this of this gem, there's actually deep value there and that you can take in the sense that you know, certain people are you know, they might appear rough on the outside, but deep down inside there's something kind of great about them. And that's you know, the perseverance, the fact that it's a very egalitarian person. Everyone is equal in their regards someone like Connie.

You on, but sure or experience, and I want to be clear, it's nuanced, right. We could dissect these two characters other similarities and differences, I think for a long time, and I think that's.

I love them both, the rich characters. So yeah, and that comes through.

And I think that was one of the surprises for me of the film, not knowing really anything about it. I try to go in with as much of a blank slate, not even watching trailers if I can avoid it.

Yeah, for sure.

What's funny is, and I don't want to spoil the movie in any way, but for a guy who's a degenerate gambler, there's some pretty big bets in this movie. Yet he you know that he takes that he maybe make, so you know, it is I think the high calling element to it is is he's also don't forget he's a guy who was the man in the nineties, late

Yeah, and I think just like we well, yeah, but because it's like I would rather hear from you, he's not. Yes, he he has he has lost, but he goes through life as a winner.

You know.

Yeah, you touched on the casting of Adam Sandler. So how important was it whether you love him or not or I'm being too harsh on Howard. He certainly does a lot of hurtful things to other people. How important was it to have a character like Sandler who brings just an affability and an amiability.

To anything amount there wouldn't work. There's no other person.

The only other person who I could ever see this movie functioning with is Rodney Dangerfield and and but that was that would have to be ten years before Easy Money. But then again, Easy Money came at a time in his life when you know, he had a certain age that made him lovable. Sandler's Sandler has an an uncanny ability to root the most absurd scenarios in a weird

Even saw the movies.

You look at you look at his early his like so all of his comedies, really those early comedies, which are so crazy and so absurd, and you really are looking at the screen and saying, I want that guy to win and I want him to succeed.

And it's just something inside of him.

You know, it's part of his soul that we knew that that needed to be brought to the character in a way that the film wouldn't work without.

That you know, And I wanted to ask about one element of the performance. And I'm totally prepared for you guys to tell me I'm wrong about this part too. But the frenetic pace of the film, right, I don't want to tell you you're wrong about anything. That's what's great about movies is that they're your own. Yeah, the viewers experience.

For sure.

But this is I know this word talk about cliches. You've heard it four thousand times. It's intense, right, And it struck me though fairly early on and throughout the film, that Howard is never really overwhelmed by it, right, he kind of thrives on it. Obviously, he's usually the one causing it. But I think you actually see that in

He's he's always listening it and feeling the conversations around him, and yeah, that's the truth is there is like there's a moment where it does kind of catch up with him and he does feel the weight of it all. But for the most part, he is trying. He's trying as hard as you know. He's thinking, I guess what makes it so stressful is so many decisions happening right away and they're all like, oh my god, I wish you did that, But he is trying to make the best decision and that exact same thing.

Keep going from there.

The thing that I'm most.

Kind of moved by and encouraged by is in the screening process of this movie since Tell Your Ide Toronto, New York, et cetera, even last night in Chicago, he is seeing how entertained people are by the stressful scenarios.

At moments, it's.

It's making, it's creating this new form of entertainment, if you want to call it that, but it's the experience is so immersive, and I think seeing it like we saw last night in the theater, you can you know, if you see a sad movie with an audience, hearing someone cry might actually be distracting. Not taking anything away from sad movies, but that is the truth. If you see a scary movie with a bunch of people, the collective fright is a huge.

Part of the experience.

Seeing a thriller like this with a bunch of people, I'm telling you, I've seen it in every theater. You can feel the entire audience lean towards the screen as if they want to reach out to the screen and grab Howard Adam Sandler and just shake some sense into him.

Right there.

It's popping in my head right now. There's a very funny scene in the Buster Key movie Steamboat Bill. Yeah, and he like he's his whole boat is sinking and he's holding all all of the holes water's pouring in.

He doesn't know what to do.

So he realized, Okay, I got it.

He then picks up a hammer. He's in the bottom of the boat, picks a hammer and some nails, and he goes to nail in over the hole inside the boat. And in the moment you're thinking, that's a great idea, cover up the hole. The moment the hammer hits the nail more water. But that's the essence that you're trying to kind of create here.

When we were here last time, we talked about pattinson performance and I asked you guys to talk about a moment or a scene in the film where he really surprised you with something where it wasn't how you envisioned

I think that the I think that there's a big scene between him and Kevin Garnett towards the end of the film. It's about a six page scene and it's you know, it's a it's the scene we spent the most time writing, in the most time editing, and the least time shooting. But that's largely because of the testament

I they use it in the trailers. I disagree the way that he said it.

You know, first of all, he has this motor mouth quality throughout the whole scene and then he pauses at the end.

He just looks at me, goes, I disagree. I disagree Gary. The way that he said it.

From a as a Sandler fan too, it was just like, oh, there's the iconic Sandler moment.

Yeah, and it's there's so many moments, like it's hard to justify one.

Because I know what's one you want to do though with the guard.

Yeah, when he's with the Dina in that in that conversation.

Menzell's that's a big scene.

Yes, But Sandler starts doing this kind of thing where he's like ex haling this a lot of mouth movement and he's like you can feel the uncomfort like that he's he's really trying to get it out, but he's not saying it. But yeah, in general, it was just watching him make these micro decisions as Howard. It's like I wasn't watching Adam perform it. I was watching Howard in these scenes doing it. There's like a very little one where it's like when Garnett says to his manager, just.

Wait right here, we'll be right back.

Howard just instinctively owns that idea and looks at the manager and does the same exact hand motion that Garnett does like a half a second later, just.

To be like, oh, yeah, that was my idea.

This is good.

I also I also really love the you know, he he would add improvised jokes all the time, like little things that he felt like Howard could do, you know, in particular, like tiny weird borsch belty things like when he when he goes and is gonna pawn a ring to these two real jewelers.

He goes, I'd shake your hand, but I know where it's been, right, just like it's such a bad joke, but it's such a Howard.

It's such a jeweler joke that he did, and it was really great.

And the movie is filled with stuff like that.

Yeah, you talked about the immersive quality the film. Sound obviously has a big part in that, and I know Altman is a big touchstone for you guys, and there's that element to it. I think anyone watching it will get a little bit of a sense of whether it's

California Split another Altman film, you know, in about gambling. All the gambling dens are filled with all of these kind of you know, again more down and out players, but there is You're right, there's a great story about more and Batty. At the premiere of McKay and Missus Miller, you sit next to Robert Altman and twenty minutes into the movie, Warren Batty turns to Altman and he goes, is a whole movie sound like this? And Altman turned him with smiling he goes, yeah, how cool is that?

The thing, and you're pointing out something interesting, which is, yes, if you let it exist in kind of more laid back feeling.

It's one thing.

What we're trying to do here is we're trying to kind of really capture the points of view of everybody in the scene at almost exactly the same time, and we're very, very like, the shot verse shot is so important, and to get a shot reverse shot within that environment from a production standpoint is almost physically impossible, but we're so so tuned into kind of making that impossibility of reality.

I'm surprised that Benning is able to actually get that all across, because to prove a point, right now I'm messing with the volume modulation on his Vsfron and it's going from blasting to complete zero. And that's and that's something that life is all about. Sometimes you have these cacophony noises that you have to ignore, and as an actor, I think it's very freeing.

I think for a lot of the actors it.

Was I wanted to yeah, I wanted to touch on that, because you talk about maybe how they felt in that space. My first reaction was as an actor, I would find it so distracting and so chaotic that maybe I couldn't fully get into the character. But imagine it is just the opposite. It's kind of freeing. It led itself to an authority. You're not performing as much.

Yeah, you're not thinking about the construct of the scene. You know, you're thinking about, okay, this is you're this is all really happening.

So just just think that.

I think that as some as you know, I think, as somebody who's acted briefly in a couple of things, I think a big thing that you know sometimes you know, is that suspension, disbelief and being able to basically disappear into into the character, you know, in a specific scene,

So we encourage all the.

Extras to actually speak and have their own experience, And I think for Lakeith and Sandler that was that was really informing, and it allowed them to actually feel like they were having a private conversation that fell like it had high stakes because you have you know, and also don't forget that if the general din of the audio of people speaking a rose a certain amount, they could increase the volume of their voice, so there was no pretending in.

A certain way.

And then on our end, it's a matter of like, like you're working with somebody like Skip Livesay, who was mixing it, he has to kind of keep it in a relative reality. You know, we were working with the confines of that as our basis. So when you have that audio, it's a matter of working it in and working like we would actually be listening to certain parts and when there was a break in the dialogue, like, oh, let's bring in that adr that we recorded in the background.

I want to close, though, There's so much more to get to with this movie, with our kind of rapid fire film Spotting five, You guys were nice enough to play last time. The first two questions the same as last time. What's the last movie you saw in a theater other than your own?

Last week? Saw on a last movie I saw in a theater?

I mean, we've been having to promote so much. Might have been parasite.

Yeah, for me, it might have been what.

Are we talking about? I just went to go see Lost Highway two days ago in l A.

Yeah, at Tarantino as a theater and yeah, and then before that, I did three every break that I had in l A to New Beverly, I saw a murder by Contract and the one before that was dolomite Ise and uh and then yeah, and then I did, uh, and then I did. But the most recent new release I saw, I guess was Dolomite Yeasite before.

And I saw I saw the Lighthouse in Parasite.

Okay, the movie a movie that you revisited recently, something you love.

In a lonely place. Great film, Nicholas, Yeah, and oddly relevant for this movie for sure.

I want to say that I revisited because I actually the one. Uh, it's it's it's hard because I I revisited a bunch of stuff in pieces. But I guess Hole in the Head.

I've watched that again recently.

Is there a current movie obsession you have a director, an actor, an actress.

Yeah, I recently wanted to rewatch every talk Fujamoto lensed movie and it leads you down a pretty like extensive eighties hole of filmmaking. But yeah, I wanted to look at every talk foto movie.

Last question, actually two more real quick movie that made you want to become.

A director, that woul maybe want to become a director, Yeah.

It might. Weirdly enough, it was probably the movie Kids.

I mean, Kramer Versus Kramer was the first movie that showed the power of cinema When we were little kids, but kids. I saw when I was fifteen and I was in a scenario where there was whippits happening, and I saw the scene on a VHS tape and it just felt like life led.

Onto the screen. And I was so curious about how that could be done.

Yeah, it was.

I was going to go to school to be a physicist and then film in addition. And I went to Josh said, oh, come over to Boston University and watch this. Watch we're looking at the neo realists, the Italian realist and I saw you'll posto and totally changed.

Really yeah, I couldn't.

Believe that you could do.

And then, of course then you dig deeper into that whole era.

Of course. Yeah, mind blowing.

So this one's a more timely question, with it being not only the end of the year, but the end of the decade. I'm sure you're seeing a lot of shows like mine and critics sharing their best films of the decade. Do you have one that immediately comes to mind as the best film of the twenty tens?

That's right, I mean good to that top ten list was pretty good.

Which one the twenty ten for the was for the Kye.

Yeah, but I didn't end up sending it up.

You didn't, okay, because I don't like to do the top ten because there's you see so much I forgot what what?

What?

Ended up reaching pretty high? Do you remember what I had on there when I sent it to you? And I was like, guy, should I send this? And then I ended up not sending it.

There's so many. I don't know.

It's hard because it's like you of course you know the list in front of you. Yeah, yeah, you know what you want me to pull.

Phantom thread was on there.

Phantom Dread was way up. It was on there. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Phantom thread was way up on there. Let me just pull it up because you can just edit this.

End the favorite.

The favorite was on there.

The favorite was way up. Yeah, all right. This was my U This was my top ten that I had that I that I never sent to the kis.

This is an exclusive here exclusive Phantom Thread, Uh, the Favorite, Lanthemos, Margaret Lonigan, Beyond the Candle, Ober Sodenberg, Under the Skin by Glazer, Wolf of Wall Streetscorsesey Inside, Lewin Davis at Coen Brothers, The Act of Killing Josh Oppenheimer, Bitter Lake by Adam Curtis and Parasite Bay Bonkuan.

Who those are some great choice. I'm in locked up with you on more than a few of those guys. This was a lot of fun. I encourage everyone out there to see the film if they get a chance.

Thank you so much, best of luck, Thank thank you, appreciate it.

Yeah, having a good time.

Yeah, this is me.

This is how I went.

Hope you enjoyed that trip into the time capsule there with Josh and Benny Safti. You get complete access to the film Spotting Archive, monthly bonus shows and more as a film Spotting Family member, and yes, if you use promo code Supreme you can get twenty percent off through January thirty. First, just go to film Spottingfamily dot com.

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