Mike Birbiglia • Films To Be Buried With with Brett Goldstein #183

they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life through the films that meant the most of them. Previous guests include Barry Jenkins, Kevin Smith, Sharon Stone and even ped Clambele's. But this week it's the brilliant writer, actor, director and stand up mister Mike Babiglia. I think there's only a couple of tickets left for Films to be Buried With live at the south Bank Center on Saturday twelve off of February. Come along, bring a date, It's

going to be a hot one. The last tickets are available at Southbank Centered, dot co, dot UK and plosive dot co dot UK. Thank you to everyone who has already bought tickets. Going to be very exciting. Nice to see you all there. Head over to the Patreon at patreon dot com Forward Slashback Goals scene where you're getting next to twenty minutes of chat with Mike. We go deep, we talk about beginnings and endings, you get a secret, You get the whole episode uncut and as a video.

Check it out over at patreon dot com. Forward Slashback Goals teen Ted Lasso, as always, is available on Apple TV Plus both seasons. You can watch them all in Mango. You can find super Bowl and you can find Soulmates both on Amazon Prime Infarious Country. So go and watch them all now, but not right now. Listen to this and then watch You know you've got a lot of do You've all got busylos So. Mike Babiglia is one of the great stand ups. He's known for his storytelling shows.

He has also made two stonecold classic films, Sleepwalk with Me and Don't Think Twice. I spend a lot of time on this episode talking at about the ins and outs of Don't Think Twice in particular. So if you've ever seen. Don't think twice. I highly recommend you watch it before listening to this one. It's a fucking great film anyway. Plus you'll enjoy this one all the more. Father seen it. We recorded this the other day on Zoom. This first time I met him. It was lovely to

talk to him. It's a really good time. I think you're really gonna like this one. I loved it. So that is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy episode one hundred and eighty three of Films to be Buried With. Hello, and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It is me Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by an actor, a writer, a producer, a podcaster, a director, and one of the greatest stand ups of all time. Please will you welcome to the show. We

can't believe he's here, but he is here. He's un Zoom in person, but Una Zoom dies it in the world, right in front of us, right now, coming in here. It's the one, the only he's here, just one, not only please the show. It's the brilliant it's here he is. Yeah. Wow, what an amazing introduction that was so exciting. Welcome, Welcome, so pleased to have you. I'm a huge fan, very excited we're doing this. Hey, I got some things I

want to ask you about. Can we get straight into Okay, First things first, I believe you've made at least two masterpieces. First things first, Sleepwalk with Me. Yeah, yeah, we want to talk about it. Well, here's the thing. There's a stand up show and then it was a film. Yes, that's right, and I think most people, including myself, do a stand up show. Possibly we're destorying it anything how to turn into a film, and everyone tries, and so

many of these things don't work. And Sleepwalk with Me it's so simple and so brilliant, and I remember watching it and going, oh, yeah, that's how you do it. Like it's it's like it's like you solved the riding when the answer was so obvious. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's how you do it. You just do it really fucking well and clear it. It's really good. Thanks man. You know I feel like, go ahead, Well, no, I'm curious if that was a very long process to decide

to work out the film vision of that. You know, the story is clear, but the yeah tell me, well yeah, so I'd always wanted to make films. Part of the reason I like this podcast so much is that it's a cinephiles podcasts, and it's so in the weeds of like why we love film. And I had studied screenwriting in school, and of course, you know your your listeners are centiphiles too, so they sort of know that, like there's no real path to becoming a filmmaker. I mean,

there's no application process. I mean I studied screenwriting, and then it's just like, I'm going to be a screenwriter. And then it's like, well, how how would you even do that? And and of course, like you know, everybody had, you know, there's the becoming a screenwriter and then there's the figuring out a path to becoming a screenwriter or a filmmaker in any way, shape or form. And those two things are like they're almost separate journeys in a way,

figuring out how to crack that. So I was working at the door at the Washington DC Improv in college, and I was getting stage time whenever they would let

me be on stage. I was bringing nachos, the tables and things, and then I realized, like, maybe I could be a stand up comedian, making a couple of hundred bucks a week driving my mom's station wagon around the country to sort of hell gigs that the character in the film goes to, you know, And and I thought, Okay, if I could do that, maybe that led at a job I would really enjoy, and so and so I did that, and then along the way, along the way, I sort of started to develop this show which was

called Sleepwalk with Me, which eventually was adapted in the film. And it's all about my personal journey towards you know, this artistic journey of being honest on stage and being honest about who you are. And then it's also about my own struggles with sleepwalking, which is like a real disorder I had, and I really did jump through a second story window. And also, you know, it's just about this break up, this really hard breakup I had in

my twenties. And so I developed it as a solo show, and I was doing it in clubs like like you know, the Comedy Store. You know, I'm trying to think of the London comps, the comps of of what I clubs in Britain. But but that's sort of where I was doing it because we don't have like the like Sleepwalk with Me the original show is is really akin to like in Edinburgh show. But I've never I've never played Edinburgh, you know, I've never done it. Um so I really

want I've always wanted to go. I've always wanted to go, but it's just never whatever, it's never quite worked out or and so anyway, I was performing this at comedy clubs and it was this thing where where it wasn't called Sleepwalk with Me. But but then I was working with a director, this guy Seth Barris, who's a wonderful director I've worked with now for about sixteen years. And we mounted it with some producers off Broadway in two

thousand and eight. And I've been doing comedy about eight years. I graduated from college in two thousand. So we ran off Broadway at the Bleaker Street Theater for about eight or nine months. And in the process of that, this company that makes independent films was one of the producers and they optioned it as a screenplay. And so I worked on it with Ira Glass and Seth Barrish and my brother Joe, and we did it as a screenplay.

But then what happened was and this is I think what you're speaking to when you're saying, like you cracked the thing, which is how hard it is to make solo shows into movies, which is that we delivered it to the company that optioned it. They didn't they didn't like it. They were like, no, we're not going to

make this. And I said, well, I think I'm just gonna try to wrangle a small amount of money together and then just directed on my own, because previous to that we were going out to big indie film directors and stuff like that, and people were attached and it was very like the Hollywood way kind of thing like. And so I was like, I'm going to take this on my own. And the guy who is the producer and we're still friendly to this day, but he really was like you will fail. You know, He's like, this

will fail. He's like, you don't understand, you don't understand what you're getting into, you don't know how to direct a movie, etc. And of course he's right, but the only way you learn how to direct a movie is by directing a movie. That's the that's the conundrum of

directing movies or doing anything of that scope. Right, So, so we wrangled together like about a million dollars through different investors and things, and we made this movie Sleepwalk with Me, and I will say, like you're saying, like it worked, but like it didn't always work. Like we shot at and we got in the edit and we're like, well,

this this doesn't work. And then there was a way in which, you know how in the in the movie I talked to the camera while I'm driving and I tell these monologues and I say, I'm gonna tell you a story and blah blah blah, I'm talking to camera. That was in the edit that we found that originally it was embedded in the film in these kind of like Ferris Bueller's Day Off kind of monologues where I would turn to camera mid scene and start monologuing to camera, and in the in the edit it was so campy,

and we were just like, this doesn't work. What are we gonna do? I mean, I remember being in the edit with my editor Jeffrey Richmond, who's brilliant, and I was just like he and he went on he recently did Escape at Dennemora and like so many great things. But I was just like, jeff, what are we gonna do? This movie's a disaster, and Jeff is so he's a real calm person, and he goes, we're gonna turn it in when it's done. And one day Jeff and I had this idea of like, well, what if we did

those monologues. What if we just did them from a car and we shot him real scrappy, you know, and so they don't look like the rest of the movie, so that there's a sense of like, there's this storytelling and then there's this in flashback. And so I went out with a camera operator and we just drove around Connecticut and New Jersey and we just shot these things fast and loose, and then we dropped them in and we're like, oh, this is cool. Now this feels this

feels like something we're starting to get laughs. We're starting, you know, we're showing it to test audiences of ten people, and now they're laughing, and they didn't used to laugh early in the process. We're like, oh, no, nobody's laughing. Part of it and part of it. Part of the reason why I think they were laughing was that we changed the monologus from being in the present tense to the past tense. So, in other words, if you tell someone so you know, I'm jumping out a window. They're like,

oh no, they're worried about you. But you say a few years ago I jumped through a window and they can see you're okay, they can laugh about it. It's like that old thing about like tragedy plus time. It's like they need to know you're okay. Yes, fascinating, Okay, I've got all right. I've got so many questions of that first question, Well to do with the film is? I mean, my experience in all these things is first cut of anything, but the first cut, the rough cut,

the first cut. I've never seen one where I was like, oh, this is good, every single one of them. I've gone, I need to quit the business and try myself off a cliff. Every singful first cut of scene. Is that always your experience? Yeah, so I've I've made two features and a few short films. And the other one was don't Think twice, and both times would sleepwalk with me and don't Think twice. It was definitely jump off a cliff. Quit the business. Uh, your pack up and go home.

Don't tell anybody this happened, you know, just like it's awful, it's amazing, isn't it. But I think that's true for everyone. I think I rarely hear people go I see I've seen the first cut. It's amazing. It's usually like, oh, it's fucked. No, it's no, I've I've I've almost never heard of first cuts doing well. My other question is, did I misunderstand your story? You were working at this

comedy club. Yeah, you didn't want to be a stand up you were just working there any No, no, no, it was more like I got the job because I had won a contest in my college for my university for funniest person on campus. And and it was actually Nick Kroll was in the contest. That's actually how we met and became friends. What did you have to do in the contest stand up comedy? Yeah, okay, it wasn't my wacky wacky stepho in campus. No, No, we we

both did stand up comedy for the first time. It was when me and Nick both did stand up for the first time. And then we became friends after that and did improv together for a few years. And uh so I won, and then one of the things that I won was the opportunity to perform at the Washington d C Improv and which was the comedy club in Washington. And because we went to Georgetown and I opened for

Dave Chappelle. This is pre Dave Chappelle's show, and I mean, this is back when Half Baked, you know, era of Dave Chappelle, and it was it went, it went pretty well. And then I said to the club, like, can I do this all the time? I'd love to be an MC And they basically said, like everyone wants to be a comedian, you know, like it's there's no slots, we

don't want you, but we'd like you. And you could you know, you could bring food to tables, and you could take tickets at the door, and you could watch shows for free. And so then I was able to watch Mitch Hedberg and you know, Margaret cho and Dave Chappelle and all these people who were the best. You know. It was just like the headliners of the country coming through every week. And so I was just watching very intently.

And then I essentially I would fill in when someone didn't show up, I mean, and that was it it was. And then I would do open mics at another place at this at this motel, at this motel every Wednesday, called the Best Western in Virginia. I would do open mics and I would just bomb so hard. And then when I got out of college, I just drove around

the country and tried to make it work. And then when when my comedy career got going to be okay, I had enough sort of like equity with audiences to be like, I want to put on a solo show.

And that's sort of how it happened. And then since then, if people don't know my work, like, since then, I did a bunch of solo shows like My Girlfriend's Boyfriend, Thank God for Jokes, the new one, and then the new show is called The Old Man and the Pool, which I'm doing right now in Berkeley, California for three weeks and then and then I'm going to be in

London at the Leicester Square in June. Right, So it's exciting. Well, i'd like to quickly talk about that and Think Twice, which I don't know if you've ever had me talk about, but I think it's is magnificent and I also think it is devastating. I think it's a devastating films. I think Twice. One of the things I'm fascinated by about it is. I think it kept his live comedy in

a way that film almost never does. And I wonder what your secret was for that, and was that again, was that difficult thing to work out because I rarely think when you see stand up in films and stuff, it rarely connects in the way that it does in the room live. And I always think, I think it's because there's a lack of jeopardy, because you're not in

the audience. There's a sort of there's a weird and often if the audience in the film are laughing in a way that you at home and are laughing, it disconnects, you know what I mean, Like they said, yeah, that's a huge I think that you're describing is a huge problem with performance films in general, and any kind of

performance and to develop don't think twice. I had a series of like ten or fifteen readings in my living room with just like friends, comedians, filmmakers, etc. In New York and U and actually one of the most incisive criticisms that I got, you know, I would have friends read the parts and we do a little reading and

then we'd eat pizza afterwards. It was it's just it's something I've done over the years with both of my films, and like, and actually Greta Gerwig read the lead and one of the readings and this is I think right around Frances huh, maybe right around that. Yeah, it's like fifteen. I don't know, it's like twenty fifteen. She said to me, I have no notes, she said to me privately, she goes, I have no notes. She goes, I would say if the performance scenes work, the movie will work, and if

the performance scenes do not work, the film will not work. Yeah, And so she's like, She's like, you really need to like zero in on that. And so I spent like a lot of time with my cinematographer Joe Anderson, just

sort of staring at performance films. And so we had this theory that it's not that novel of a concept, but we had this feeling that if we shot a majority of the film on sticks, you know, on tripods, and then we shot the performance stuff handheld, there would be a liveliness to the performance in sort of almost

like in like a sports film or something. Yeah. Yeah, And like we found that whenever we were watching comedy performance it was always from the perspective of the audience but theater and stand up you can't capture what's in a room really, and so you can't capture theater, for example, from an audience shot. You just can't do it. There's

something about it that never quite translates. So we thought if the camera was handheld on steadycam, and it was it was acting as one of the performers in the improv then as an audience member, we would feel like we were in the scenes with the improvisers and that we were improvising and that these were our friends. And

so that was the goal. And even the camera operator was this guy Mike Fuchs and as an excellent camera operator, and we would we all we spent so much time on the choreography of those shots because we would do some scenes that were written to be improvised, and then we would do some scenes that were improvised. And the key thing is that the audience members were a mixture of paid extras which you have to do for the

for the guild, right. But then it was also my comedy fans who I reached out to on Facebook and said, would you be willing to come here for like six hours and why and be a fly on the wall. To some stuff that's funny and some stuff that's not funny and it just is boring. So like a lot of those audience members are real audience members really laughing at stuff Keegan Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs and Chris

gather is doing. Because that's the other thing is like there's you know, often the extras or the background actors for performance scenes are people who have just been there for ten hours and nothing's funny to them anymore. And

so that that was that was a big part of it. Yeah, I think it may be easis, the connecting the with the camera movement from the states to the audience that the laugh is genuine, the laugh is spontaneous, and you capture it in camera without cutting from performance to here's the laugh. Maybe it's a bit of that. Anyway, It really was definitely that was definitely the goal. And I really appreciate it. I mean, it's it's such a it's such a small film, it's such a small budget film.

It's so meaningful to me when people connect with it. Oh, I forgot I have a question because I had Gillian Jacobs on this podcast and I asked her this and she said, oh, I have no idea, and I said, I'd ask you, and I just remembered there's a shot. I know it's a very low budget film. There's a shot when they're in the card together. I think it's after the funeral, and there's a hot air balloon in the background of this shot. Oh yeah, that's a lucky accident or you you paid for a higher balloon to

appear in the background. Can you imagine how much that would cost? It would be like forty thousand dollars on the budget. No, it was definitely one of those things, one of those happy accidents where we got in the abit where like we gotta get that in. It's amazing.

It really looks like Deliverate. It's so perfect. Yeah, I think it's one of those things where it's funny because I've never I've actually never talked about this in an interview before, but it's it's it's a movie that your your audience members would know, probably more commonly than than American audience members. Is like the Steve Coogan Michael Winterbottom film.

The Trip was a big inspiration for Dogs because when I watched The Trip, I was like, oh, this is a beautiful trick that they're pulling off here, which is to say, they clearly have a dramatic story that is the engine that makes us care about these two characters. Then and clearly there's a script. But then within that script they're able to play in such a way that we believe they're real people and we and we're invested, Like I wanted don't think twice and sometimes it tricks people.

I wanted to feel like, is this the documentary is are these real people? Like the other one is Once, Like the movie Once was like that for me where you just afterwards you want to just go google it and be like what the fuck? Like is this real?

What is happening? Yeah? And the last thing, because I don't want to waste steal your time talking about some of you know, you're literally talking about the thing that I'm so passionate about this movie partly because I feel like with Keegan, Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs and Chris Gather and Joanna all these people, it's it's it's such a group effort that you ever have a project like this where you work on it and you don't feel bad talking about it because the other people are so good. Yeah,

that like you're admiring of like the whole everybody. Oh, I'm literally in scenes in Ted Last say where I go, you're so good in the middle. I understand that you yourself in the film. If no one has seen the film by it, I will say in the intro, you know what's the film before you listen to this, because I just think it's so good and it's one of the best films about comedy I've ever seen. It's really devastating. It's devastating in the same way inside Llewellyn Davis is

it's got that similar like fuck is this which one is? Me? Is this me? And I? This is? It's just me? Yeah. And the character that you play, I'm interested in that as well, because you play listen, they're all you care about, all in them, they're all they'll feel real. But I guess your character is the least sympathetic. Is that is, you know, is the person with the most negative activities going on? I suppose of all the of all the characters.

And I again, I'm interested that you cast yourself in that that you did that, like it's just very cool, but like, was there a particular reason for that for you to play that yeah, I mean certainly, like and it's certainly like a handful of people who I've known over the years where it's like this, if people don't know the movie, it's like a character who's like a womanizer and he sleeps with there's students, improv students and all this stuff, and and he's talented, but he's not

gonna make it the way the Keegan's character is gonna make it. And it's tough because because he mentored Keegan's character and you really like feel for him, but he's kind of a jerk, but he's pretty loyal also, you know, like he's like he's yeah, and it's that thing that you're looking at him down you're too old to be

doing this. But at the same time, it's also working every time, you know, every time a woman's going home with him and thinking, oh no, but then you're going but she season to go home with him like this, this kind of childishness that he has is there's a part of it that's very sad, but it's what like

the reason it's not stopping is no one stopping it. No, yeah, no, it's it's still working as at this level, you know, no, I mean it's it's it's a totally real I mean, I I'm not a full upright citizen's brigade like improv Like I didn't live the improv existence that like, for example, Chris Gathered and Tammy Sager, who are in the movie, lived like that. They did the sort of full on, you know, improvised seven days a week, you know, did

ask Cat at UCB Theater all this stuff. I did it for like a couple of years, and then I went this route of stand up. But I've part of the impetus for making the film was that every now and then I would improvise, and I would do this thing called Mike Berbiglia's dream and it would be like my dreamcast. I would be like, I'd ask like Ellie Kemper, Chris Gethard, Aidy Bryant, like all these people who are

these heavy hitters to just come improvise with me. And one night I did it and my wife Jen goes, she goes, it's so interesting that like everyone is so good at this thing, this skill that is so it's impossible to sort of monetize. It's not commercial, it's not like you know, and she's like, and it's so weird because like, you know, that person is like, you know, Ellie Kemper, for example, is like a wild international superstar, and that other person, like Conra Ratliff who's in the movie,

for example, is like is not that you know? And it's very far in the other end of this, and it's like that must be weird. And I said, and I was like, not only is it weird, I was like,

it's a movie. I was like, that's a movie that should be a movie because there's this way in which there's a hard lesson I experienced in my life and I think a lot of artists do, which is like there's a certain point in art where you realize like it's a group, it's a team sport acting and comedy and creation, but ultimately it's not everybody gets the same thing.

And I sort of grappled with I mean, the thing I relate to about my character Miles is feeling jealousy over the years of like different people who like exploded, you know, and just being like, oh, man, I guess you know, and of course I but then I also relate to Keegan's character because I've gotten things that are crazy. And I was on Letterman when I was in my twenties and so I had like this bit, you know,

like these exciting things. And then I relate to Gillian's character probably the most because there's like a part of me that's like an eternal optimist about art, which is like, we don't have to sell out. We can just do what we do and forever we're just gonna keep doing it, you know. And so like her scenes really break my heart the most because that's who I feel like I am deep down. It's really something that's your license on it. But but to your point of like why to pick

that that character. So like my friend Jorma Tacone, who's a filmmaker who made He's into Lonely Island. He made a pop pop star, never stopped, never stopping mcgruber. He's made a bunch of stuff. But he was at the readings. He was at the readings and he was like at my apartment and he was like, uh, you gotta play

And it's Keegan's part Jack. He's like, you got to play Jack, And I go, no, Man, it's gotta be somebody who would get on SNL Like it's gotta be realistic, it's gotta be someone who's so good at improv and sketch comedy that you, without a shadow of a doubt, you go, yep, he would be on SNL and you know Keegan hosted SNL in the spring. It's like, yeah, the guy on Key and Peel would be cast. Wow,

well that's it's fascinating. Have you had people from that world from UCB and stuff come to you and guy fuck you? Yeah? Yeah. It's funny because Jamila Jamal was telling me that I know she's been on the show, right, yeah, yeah, I heard her on that. Yes, yes, so she um she loves dumping twice And she was like, you have very polarizing responses in the improv community about the Yeah, well of course you know you're calling out a thing. Yeah,

because because it's it's very very truthful. It's so good. Shit, Mike, Oh no, oh no, I've forgotten to tell you something. Do you know what's really embarrassing is I like i'd always bring like a little notebook so that I can make notes if I need to. We're gonn need to cut in a thing like that, And I always make a note and I've just written you know, I don't think twice and I've looked back a page and there's something I should have told you, probably at the beginning,

and I forgot to tell you. And when I say, you're gonna be like you probably should give me a bit body, I'll just say it and then we'll deal with the recussions. I can handle anything. I think I can handle any anything, anything at all. Yeah, nothing that would sort of you go, ah see that was a bit much. Yeah, I think in a podcast format, I'm open to any possibility. You've died, You're dead probably, Are you okay with that? No, I'm gonna I'm okay with it. Okay,

I can, I can upset, I can accept it. Now that I'm in it, I'm comfortable feeling it. You've been dead half now, so I suppose you're used to do do it. Now. How did you die? Well, Um, I died from a coconut falling on my head straight straight, so they bright, Yeah, crust head. I talk about this. I actually actually talk about this in my new show The Old Man in the Pool because it's all about death immortality and I and I and I did a lot of research on

how people die. And I found out that hundreds of people a year on average die from a coconut falling on their head, and and and um, wow, my joke. My joke of course is, um, do you eat the coconut, because because it's right, it's it's right, that's how you die. But the coconuts next to the so hit by coconut? Yeah, I was hit by coconut? Wit were you well? I was on Um, I was on vacation in Hawaii and with my family, and um, they you know, did they see they saw it? Yeah? Yeah, did they? They took

a photo. They thought it was funny. They took photos, and then when they realized that I had no pulse, it became abundantly clear that it was not as funny it as they had originally thought. Do you worry about death? I mean you've written the house about it. Yeah. I think about it all the time. Yeah. Has that always been the case? Where is this more recently? I think there's something about I'm forty three years old. I think there's something about middle age where you get on you know,

the expression. I don't know if this is a British expression either, but it's like over the hill, that's a that's a universal right, which is an expression I never really understood until I got on the hill, you know what I mean, And I'm looking around and I'm going, oh, there's natural causes. You know, they're not close, but they're coming yea and yeah no. I think about a lot, especially when you have a child, like I have a

six and a half year old child. And that's what my whole last show, The Knew One was about having a child. And when you have a child, you start to see, Like for me, like, I'm an anxious person, so I always see like, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next? And in a way that's uncomfortable, and then I start to see it for my own child. And then if you start to just do what's next, what's next for a child, you're out of the picture at

a certain point. Yeah, yeah, wow, what's next? What's next? With next? Kaget to the head? Yeah, go get into the head? Yeah? Oh good? Do you think something happens after each Do you think that's enough to life? What do you think on that? I don't. I don't think there's any way to know. I don't have a specific religion or belief system, but I'm I'm open to whatever that. You know, what, whatever might inferral. Do you have a preferred idea? The theory's nothing about I don't. I think

it's probably best that I go into the ground. My ashes, my ashes, I don't think. I don't believe in embombment. I don't believe in any of that stuff. You know. I have a joke in the show where I go, if we're gonna win bomb people, why not go all the way and do taxidermy, Like, oh, it's sad that it's sad that Rajieve died, but he's catching that football, you know what I mean? And yeah, I like to I like to think that my body would be of use to the earth in some way. Yeah, well, I

got news for you, big. There's a heaven. Everyone there has been embalmed. So it's weird that you turned off. They were like, well, how do we doesn't really have it? So they've been raised human show. Oh no, they put it in a passage terrible talk about a bad bounce. What's your favorite thing, because heaven's filled with it? Oh, my favorite thing is pizza. Listen, Heaven is made of pizza.

The wolves made pizza chairs and made of pizza. Again, this was the right decision, but you're sitting on pizza. It's not as greasy. It doesn't like stick to you, and it doesn't burn you. It's just the right temperature. But you can eat the chairs, you can eat the you go to bed. Your pillow is a slice, big, deep, deep, diey slice, and you can eat it as you as you nap. I love it and you can't get it doesn't affect you in it. You don't get full. You

don't you know. It's it's really good. And everyone in this heaven they're obsessed with you, mostly because you're the only one who turned up his ash. But they alway said that they want to know about your life. They want to know about your life through film. Yeah, and the first thing they ask you is, what is the first film you remember seeing? Mike the Big Lea. So the first one I remember seeing is um the movie Breaking.

I don't know if you ever saw this one, but it's a nineteen eighty four film about breakdancing, competitive sort of competitive breakdancing. Oh amazing, and there was. It actually has probably the best name of a sequel that's ever been which is Breaking to Electric Bugaloo. I'm so sorry. I know exactly what you're talking about I thought you were saying separate words break in I thought it was like a skype movie breaking breaking, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

And it was. It's all about breakdancing. And the reason I remember it so well is that I was like six years old and my brother and sisters and I, who were older than me, took me to the theater. Were the only people in the theater, and we started breakdancing in the theater while we were watching it in the in the aisles and on the rug between the screen and the seats, and it was pure joy, pure joy. That's so nice but lovely. Story references to how much

he did today. So my brother is about five years older than me. My oldest sisters eleven years older than me, so they were like teenagers and yeah, yeah yeah, And did you were like what a place? You don't say, that's a big, amazing No. I've always loved yeah, And I've always loved, you know, ever since then, I've always loved seeing films in the theater. Like I it's an extraordinary it's an extraordinary experience. I think, I mean it is. Watch him. What is the film that made you cry

the most? You would cry? You seem to me someone who might not base guy of crying. Yeah, no, I I've cried, and I this is a film I read. There's two films by James Brooks that I revisit quite a bit, Terms of Endearment and Broadcast News, right, And

those are films that I cry about. Uh, you know, whenever you know either of them, whenever I watch them, I think, because I think James Brooks does this extraordinarily well, is that he makes comedies that have dramatic turns in them that you would only expect to be in dramatic

quote unquote dramatic genre movies. Yeah. It was actually lucky enough to meet James Brooks once and I said to him, I go, I go, you know, people think I'm kind of nuts because sometimes they'll ask me what's my favorite comedy, and I'll say Terms of Endearment and he said, he goes,

he goes. It's interesting that you said that because we edited it as a comedy, like we were we were showing it for audiences, we were finding the laughs, we were cutting it at the moment that felt right for the laugh, and so like in some ways, like it's this for me. The more that you can an audience can lead you into laughing and then make the left turn into something that's why, you know, deeply emotional. It

really for me, it really gets me. Well that's what you do, it's what you do in your status says and I think at that look, I've talked about this before, but I think I think it is the best way to If people laugh, they're letting down the defense, right, that's what that's what love to his laugh is a is a a wool coming down. And if then you guys, oh and he's a serious thing, that much more open to it. Yeah, do you cry in real life? Cry it? Yeah?

Sometimes I use film to cry because I think that there's a lot of tension in me that's not being released and so it you know, it's sometimes it takes a film to get me to cry. I'm you know, like I feel like I had it recently. Actually, like a more recent example would be like like Spotlight was really intense for me because I was raised. I have an old joke where I said I was an altar boy as a kid, and the answers, no, I wasn't. And I think it's because they knew I was a talker.

But like I was literally an altar boy in Massachusetts where that film takes place, like like in the era that it took place. And so when I was watching that film, I was watching a screener of it with my wife Jen in our living room, and I actually was crying so hard I had to stop the movie. I had to pause it because I couldn't even see

the movie. I couldn't see through the tears. Not because I was abused, but because it sort of dawned on me that that people who I knew must have been m It's amazing that film, and weirdly, and it's it's a very unemotional film as in it it's very it's very well handled. It isn't it isn't melodramatic. It's very what's the word restrained? Yeah, Tom McCarthy, Tom McCarthy directed. It's great. Yeah, it's amazingly powerful. That the thing that blows your mind is just a list is at the

end is hell on the list? Guys, just a list of names. You're like, oh my gosh, yeah a list, yeah, yeah, gosh, might the Big Year. What's the film that scared you the most? Do you like being scared? I don't actually avoid movies that are scary, but I and maybe this is why UM ever see this movie Cloak and Dagger. It's like a it's like a I actually looked it up because I was like, I was like, what is the leaven? The log line for this movie it's a

young It's nineteen eighty four. A young boy and his imaginary friend end up on the run while in possession of a top secret spy gadget. It's like an action adventure movie where essentially like I don't know if there's like a murderer or someone to do a crime, and all they know about the character is that he has like he's missing fingers. He's like he has two fingers or something. And there's these characters I think, as an old man, old woman, who you trust? This is this

is from memory. I haven't seen a long time, so this might be wrong. It was like these characters is like almost like grandparent type characters that you trust. And there's a moment where the grandfather reveals that he has like two fingers or and you're like, oh my god, the character I trusted. And of course, you know, I was like like eight years old, and so I'd never I'd never enter reacted with that kind of a plot

twist before. And so it's that thing where the first time where someone pulls like a certain type of cinematic magic trick on you and you're like so scared. I know, yeah, I trusted you. Do you have a theory on this. I don't know if you know this, but I have so many comedians on this show, and I would say it is wildely imbalanced the amount of comedians who like horror. I would say, far more comedians come on this show and say, oh no, I don't like being scared. I

don't like horror. There are some that love it, but I would say, I don't know the exact stats. Let's say seventy of comedians do not want to be scared discuss. I don't know why that is, but it's true of me. I think that's part of the reason why Jordan Peel's get Out was so effective was that it's kind of a mix of like horror, satire, comedy. It's sort of hybrids all of these things, and that's like a genre

I can get down with. But like when it's just sort of relentless, like Gore and all this stuff, I'm like, I can't. I just can't do it. I just can't do it. I don't know what is the film that most people don't like. The critics did not like it. It is not acclaimed, but you love it. Well. It's funny because I referenced this earlier and it's not that people didn't like it, but I think it was overlooked, which is and my friend Jorma Tacone's movie pop Star

Never Stopped, Never Stopping, it was overlooked. It was one of those movies where when I saw it, and I have a cameo in it, but I'm like, when I saw it in the theater, I don't think I've ever laughed that hard in the movie theater. It's if people

don't know it. It's like a movie where Andy Samberg basically play is kind of like a Justin Bieber style pop star, like an international pop star, but they basically take it in this kind of like every scene is almost like to the level of like a only island like sketch, and but then it's but it's causal and it moves, and it like has great songs and they're catchy, and like I just I just think that movie should be like in the cannon of great comedies. I agree.

I remember being surprised that, yeah, it felt like this is gonna be fucking huge, this film, and then and then it was I've belt it's great. Yeah, that's a good shout. What is on the other side of things? A film that you used to love, you loved it, but you voiced it recently and you go, oh, no, I don't like this anymore for whatever reason that might be my particular Well, this is um, here's my record.

Here's my advice to any couples, married couples or romantic couples is, don't force your significant other to watch a movie that you have not seen since your childhood and don't remember that well and preface it with the phrase, this is who I am. I watched what my wife and I watched the film Top Gun, and I had forgotten. It is a homoerotic fighters jet film with uh no plot to speak of, nor steaks, uh nor humor, nor I mean really anything. I mean, this film just simply

does not hold up. And there's a scene where there's a scene where they're playing beach volleyball and they're like shirtless and oiled up. It's like Tom Cruise, Val Kilmer all these other guys and they're oiled up, and you know, and and and and playing you know, and and and my wife Jen looks at me, she goes, is this the movie? That's who you are? And uh? And I just had to be like, yeah, this is who I am. That's yeah. That one does not hold up. And which

one of you? Yeah? Exactly exactly, Yeah, which what are you? I'm the guy who spills as coffee as they just apply by, I think Kenny McGinnis, I know, that's funny. Did you finish the film where we like we did we didn't make it? No, that's really funny. What is the film that means the most to you? Not necessarily the film itself is any good, but the experience you had around seeing the film would always make it special to you. Mister Mike Pick. Yeah, there's a couple. One

of them is like Senected in New York. Senected in New York is so special to me. One of the other time creates it is, right, Yeah, it is, yes, So like I think part of it is my wife and I have a romance, a romance with film together. We have sort of like We love going to the theater seeing films together. And I think one of the most uforic experiences is when you see something with a partner that is far out and it invents its own language and you both get it at the same time

in the same way. Yeah, And so like a few a few films over the years we've had that with where like do you remember Margaret? Do you ever see Margaret? Is like that, It's like three hours long. I mean, it's like totally strange, but it was beautiful and really well done. And Senected in New York is just like one of those movies where the filmmaker is so committed to taking everything you hold to be true and they split it apart one by one such that sort of

you can't love the film like that. You have to hate the film, but you hate it in a way that you love it and it's so strange. I mean, what are your feelings about about Senectity. I mean, I think it's it's amazing. It's amazing, and it makes sense to me on it. It's so in the same way like I really love Magnolia senect I believe that what happened in Big Magnolia the legend I believe is that Pete Anderson had made Boogie Nights and it was a big hit, and I think it was Francis for Coppola.

Someone said to him, you have this one window where the film you make next make they will make anything you want to make next. So if you want to, if you've got this weird thing, this long thing, this mad thing, that's the film you should do next. And he made Magnolia, which I think is and SENECTI in New York has that similar feeling of like this is the one, Like this is he's going all in and it's a huge gamble because you think Charlie Carfman was

able to do it because of the Jim Carrey movie. Yes, I think, I think because I think because of that. I mean, I don't, I don't know, but Sunshine, I'm sorry, Sunshine. Yeah, but it feels like he's gone, this is the one. And it's so ambitious and there's no way it's It is not the most accessible film. I totally understand people go and fuck this. Yeah, it's it's like hard, it's hard. It also has a kind of logic to it that's

that completely makes sense to me. And and it's all the things we talked about with Don't Think Twice and Inside the End of Days, it's about it's about death, and it's about not living your life, and it's about making something in about the never letting go of it and what is it for him? And yet there's also like really funny stuff. That women's house is on fire the whole time she goes to this estate agent takes around the houses. He said, do you have any questions?

As he says, I'm slightly worried about the fire, and it just but it sort of makes sense you yes, yes, uh. And this this the world is sort of apocalyptic just in the background of shots. And this play that's getting bigger and bigger and it's been going on for seventeen years and we're still not finished. It's just brilliant. It's brilliant. Yeah. And then his other movie is so good to the

animated movie on Amalisa. Yeah, I love that samee. It's similarly like completely shouldn't work Nomlisa, Like I don't know, it's like a very unlikable protagonist. Yeah, it's animated. It's very dramatic animated movie like it's it's also got one of the best sex scenes of all time and one of the most realistic old Oh my gosh, yes, it's amazing that stops sincerely having a kind of awkward first set. Yeah, incredible bit of work. Wow. Yeah. Charlie Carfin Charlie Carflin's him.

His movies are incredible, I think, yeah. And there's just so many layers going on in that film, and I don't think, like I say, I can totally get people going like, oh, this is not for me, but I go, this is a proper like work of art. He's gone, this is the fucking thing. And it's that arguably, it's everything. This is a film about living, dying, fear of dying, fear of life, up, making stuff. What is it for love? Relating everything, It's all this giant, fucking beast of a film.

Yeah it yeah, same, Okay, what is the film that you must relate to? My perticly, I think Sideways. Great answer, great, great answer. Tell me my wife and I often quote a line from Sideways, and it's Thomas Hayden Church's character says to Paul Giomonti's character, he goes miles you understand literature and movies and wine, but you don't understand my plight,

and I feel like it is. It is one of the best pieces of art I've ever seen about the universal feeling of feeling misunderstood because this character, Thomas Hayden Church character, I don't relate to him. I don't relate to the Paul Giomadi character. I don't relate to either of them really, but I understand that this time, this Thomas Hayden Church character feels shame because he just doesn't

feel understood. And I think it's it's capturing this thing that like it's Alexander Payne, who's movies I love, And I think Alexander Paine is often really good at capturing a thing that people aren't really making movies about. Absolutely, but yeah, which is like a it's like a small thing. It's like it's like he's not making a movie about a war, he's making a movie about like sometimes we feel misunderstood. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes things as set yeah,

and then but don't Think twice. It's then that's of course why I make the movies that I make. It's like, don't think twice is about a really simple idea. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes your little improv group dream doesn't work out? What monster? What a monster? Well, you know Ira Glass, who produced Don't Think Twice and is the host, hosting producer of This American Life, etc. That was the reason he signed on to produce Don't Think Twice.

Is that precise thing is He was like, I don't think there's enough movies about failure. Yeah, here we go, here we go. What's the sexiest fail we say? It's so hard to say because I think sex is one of those things that in films done poorly so often, right, like, and I think the reason is that you can't really film people having sex, and so like I agree to disagreement. No, no, we should break that open. But like for like, let me just say, I'll say my thesis and then we

can break it open. But like, if you want to, if you want to show someone skydiving, you can show someone skydiving. You can have them skydive. You can film pieces of that and cut it together with sex. It's like, I don't know, like the closest I've seen to it feeling like sex in my memory is Blue Valentine. Oh okay, yeah, yeah, where where I'm like, oh god, it's so awkward and it's so like unattractive. But like, this is the great

trick of movies. When I think they do it well, is it's Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams, the most attractive people on the face of the earth, and they're all dressed down. You know. It's like, that's the great trick of movies, is like, let's dress these attractive people to look like us, and then people are watching, they're like, they're just like me. They're nothing like you. They are not you look nothing like these people. They're really really

really really really fit. They're just wearing Yeah, yeah, they're just wearing denim. Way, so why are you saying you can't. I mean, look, you're right. There have been instances of people having sex, like in that one movie they had sex, like Chloe Savigner and like Brown Bunny had sex, right, I think, yeah, yeah, And there's at Rylan's film called Adultery or something. Oh, really it's happened. This happened. It's done nine songs that really happening. Really, yeah, yeah, it happens.

I don't know if it's I think it's against the guild rules, but I think it well, don't you think wouldn't you guess? I don't know. I don't know, I would guess. But you know what's funny is this This is maybe controversial pick because it's so mainstream. I thought, like I thought Jerry McGuire did a pretty good job of feeling like like sex romance that's happening, similarly, like to like impossibly attractive people who are dressed down to be like they're just like us, they're nothing like you.

That's a nice sense that it doesn't come up in that category. There's a subcategory. I don't know where you're going to go with this or if you're even comfortable with it. Troubling bion is worrying. Why dones a filmy found I think this is I had to look this up to see what how inappropriate or appropriate this was. I think this was for me it was Beetlejuice. This is nineteen eighty eight. So just to be clear, I was ten years old and when Oona Ryder I think

was fifteen, like sixteen, seventeen, I don't know. She was a teen tw teenage, so she's older than me when I saw the film, So I think I'm okay. I haven't recently watched it and been rat but but like I just remember having like sort of like adolescent sort of like this is sexy kind of thing. But I don't even I don't remember the film. It's a great film.

Did they have sex? No, No, I don't think so. Yeah, but it has like Abe has like a vibe to it that's sort of like, I don't know, it has an exciting vibe to it, like it feels like, I don't know, it feels like they're even if there isn't sex, and it feels like there could be sex in it maybe one way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, that's good. What is it objectively the greatest film? Since obviously there's no such thing as objective the objective greatest hope, I'm just

gonna throw in a non sequitor. No one will think is the best movie of all time, but I will just make a case for it, which is Children of Men. You can have it, sir, you can have Children of Men. It is it could absolutely objectively be one of the greatest.

The reason why I think that is is that it is a I think it's a brilliant example of practical camera work and stunts that are not cgi but achieve the magic of film at its best, to achieve a high concept in service of real old characters going through realistic but insane circumstances. Yeah. The sequence in the car, yeahs in the car is one of the greatest things I've ever seen in film. Yeah, the motor, the motor,

the motorcycle thing, and it's all real. And there's a video that you can watch on YouTube of the creation. But behind the scenes of making that scene, it is unbelievable. Yeah. Anything that's not real is the Ping Pong Book. And you're like, that's the bit that's not real. Oh right, right, him spitting the ping Pongo and believe it says Yeah, but you're like, all the things that are not real, it was only the Ping Pong Book. Incredible. I just think like Children of Men is. I mean, look, it's

it's not an underrated film. People get it's a great film. But I don't think sometimes people grasp with those types of genres like sci fi sort of dystopian future type films. I think they get put into a genre like that's that genre. But actually, to me, that movie transcends genre and it's funny. Michael Caine is funny in that movie. Yeah, it's funny, it's weird. Uh, it's about being alive and

why we even want to be alive. It's about refugees, it's about the future and where the future could go. And it's like and it has it has a tinge of hope at the end, which is very hard to pull off. Yeah, me to get down so you can have it at ten points, I say, that's the best time you've got and all. And also any of any of Chaplain's films, because I think he's the greatest movie start all time. Love. I love that any of his films, literally, any of his films, he will never I believe he

will never be matched as a performer. And here's here's why I think he'll never be matched. I don't think that ethically we could create another Charlie Chaplain because he was basically like a like a child actor who was like traveling the country, like you might know this better than me, but like with his parents, they were like traveling, like it was like circus vaudeville kind of thing. Yeah, and he was like performing when he was like five, I think, yeah. And then like I mean, he's kind

of like the Tiger Woods of movies. Well, and he does the stuff he does. You know, the end of City Lights is all the things we talk about. It is so moving, it's such a funny film, and then the end it's just this beautiful. It's just you're right, the man's good. Yeah. What is the film that you could or have? What's the most Ivan Ivan? Again? So I watched a lot of no bomback films repeatedly, like I've watched Squid, Squid in the Whale repeatedly, film, I've

watched Francis Ha repeatedly, Right, I will. I like the repetition of movies that have a blend of like lovely cinematography, humor, music,

and dramatic tension. So so like, for example, like It's My Wife and I like always quote this line and Squid in the Whale where if I don't know if you know the film, but it's like it's yeah, it's like they're they're in these two characters, Laura Lenny's character and Jeff Daniel's character in the middle of a divorce, and the tension is so palpable between them, and the kids always quote things that the parents say, which is a reflection on I mean, it's almost making me choke

up talking about it because it's so My parents aren't divorced, but it's like so upsetting to me. Yeah, but there's there's this thing where the Jeff Daniels character says, you know, we're moving to such and such a neighborhood and it's the filet of the neighborhood. And it's such an overcompensation. That's so sad for this man to say, that's that where they're living is the filet of the neighborhood. I mean, it's just the use of language is so absurd and

believe but believable. And then his son repeats it and he goes, you know, dad says, it's the flat of the neighborhood. And you're just like, oh, just like the the repetition by the child of the sad thing that the sad dad said, you're repeating the sad things. Don't repeat the sad thing. Just judge the sad things silently and then let it go. But no, it's worse than that. They just keep it. So Janet I always say, you know, we'll talk about our apartment, will go it's the flay

of the neighborhood. Like that's great, let's not dwell in this. But what's the worst film you've ever seen? I won't name one, good man, I won't name one, but I will I'll describe a type of movie that I despise. People know what this is, they understand what this is when they see it, I hope, the type of movie where it feels like it is engineered by a studio and it has no director to speak of, no writer

to speak of. It's just about sort of a nebulous concept, for example, a holiday, and it has a bunch of stars, and then it's called the holiday name and you just go why you're wired about your birthday? Birthday? Birthday? Boy? Yes, exactly, OK. And it's like and it's like, I just feel like, why are you doing this? Why are it like we go home spend don't don't work in the movie business. Yeah, that's too hard to make make money. Don't don't you about.

I hate those movies, I really because I think they give movies a bad name. Yeah, yeah, you can, I agree completely. You in comedy, you're very funny. What's laugh device?

The movie that made me laugh most recently is Money Pits Tom Hanks film Love Money Pit, Love Money Pit, Money Pit, is, yeah, magnificent funny fit is It captures a thing about about being in a relationship and trying and failing to fix something together and having this eternal optimism that it will work even though it won't work,

and it fails again and again again. My wife I was we rewatched it recently because I watched as a kid when it came out, probably the eighties, and then we rewatched it recently and I was crying, laughing such that Jen pulled out a phone and videoed me crying laughing at the same time, just because you'd never seen me laugh like that before. I loved that, loved that. It's a great film. Mike, were big lat You've been more of a pleasure than even I expected expected you

to be a big pleasure. However, when you were on Hollo with your family, You're in Hawaii and you were on the beach and you'd been goofing around quiet. Let's be honest, you'd been goofing and they were like Daddy's funny. Everyone was having fun. And you walked by a tree you actually went to urinate is where you were heading towards the trees, and you a coconut fell up the tree and hit you in the head and killed you instantly, and your family laughed so hard. Daddy's done a bit.

He's done a bit of a coconut. And then you didn't get up, and they were like, his commitment to bits is legendary. And then they went for dinner. You didn't join them, and then they went for breakfast. They slept and they're like, he's really committed to this bit. And the next morning they came back and then they were like, oh shit. And I was walking around with the coffin, you know what I'm like, and I was like, what have you seen, Mike, And they said, yeah, I

think he was doing bits, coconut bits. And I go down to the beach. You've been pecked to death as well by pelicans, which I didn't even know we're in Hawaii, but they were there. Pelicans are easing you. Your family. Listen, listen, I'll take care of this. I get your body and there's fucking bits of bird, there's bits of palm tree, there's bits of coconut. By the way, it smells delicious, very love the smell. Anyway, I get your your wife,

I get Jeannoisy. Can you help me just chop up the body and I give her a machette and we start chopping you up into bits so we can fit you in the coffee, get all the bits in that. She was very happy to do it. By the way we put you in the coffee. It's absolutely full in the coffin. It's rammed. There's only enough room in this coffin for me to slide one DVD into the side with you to take across to the other side. And on the other side. It's night every night, one night,

it's one night. Which film are you taking? Decided that the people of heaven missed them big there. I thought about this quite a bit, and I think it's um because I don't know precisely what heaven will be and what the people in Heaven's context will be for being there. I thought, okay, what's a movie that is just about being alive and that you do not need to understand the location and context of these people to relate to the feelings of the people. The thing I thought it

was a what's eating Gilbert Grape? Great idea? Do you do you remember it? Yeah? Do you remember it? So? So, What's eating Gilbert Grape? Is this sort of quaint film from I think the nineteen nineties where Johnny Depp and I think Juliette Lewis play like they play romantic opposites, and it's you know, it's about like a family that comes through town and they strike up some friendships, and it's and the mother is sort of morbidly obese, and

and it's very human. I think that the reason I thought of it is I have nothing in common with any of the characters. I don't know what it's like to live in the middle of nowhere and you know, travel with a t in a trailer and with your family. I don't know what it's like for my mother to have this extremely serious health condition, etc. And yet I found myself just crying and crying through this movie and

completely relating to the human experience of it. And I thought, that's a good that's a good movie to explain what being alive is like. You're very very good, mister, Thank you, thank you very much for doing this. Is is there anything you would tell people to look out for to what's Oh gosh, so the old man in the pool I'm going to bring to the Leicester Square Theater in June. I did the last show there, it's called The New One, and um it's on it was on Broadway and then

it was um it's on Netflix. Now it's on you know, and then my especial before that, it is called Thank God for Jokes. I think I did that at the Leicser Square too. Actually, yeah, I like that place a lot. Actually I love that. I mean the last time I was there, I was I was trading off spots with like Stewart Lee, who's incredible, and like, you know, he was doing a different time slot than me, and he's great,

and I just love I love British comics. I love Daniel Kittson, you know, I love Jimmy Carr, like I I Sarah Milliken, uh Nish Kumar, Ashley b like these are people who, like I really admire and I want to I want to visit all parts of Britain with more regularity because I whenever I'm there, I enjoy it so much. So that's all i'd say about that. If you if you want to come to the show, come see it. I'm gonna give him. I'm gonna give it my all, and I'm very proud of the show. This

is very exciting, but the big thing. You've been wonderful. Thank you for your time for doing this. I appreciate you, and I hope you have a wonderful death. Good night. Thank you. So that was episode one hundred and eighty three. Head over to patreon dot com Forward slash break Old Scene for the extra twenty minutes of chat, secrets and videos with Mike. Go to Apple Podcast, give us a five star rating and write about the film that means the most to you and why I don't care what

you think of the podcast. I care about the films you love. It's very much appreciated and it helps everything else. Thank you, Thank you for listening. Thank you so much to Mike for doing the show. Thanks for previous Piven the distraction Pieces of Network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it, Thanks to ACAS for hosting it. Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics. At least allow him for the photography. Come to me next week for another brilliant guest.

But in the meantime, that is it for now. So have a lovely week and please, more than ever, be excellent to each other. That was Uncrats Across Uncross