James McNicholas - Judgement Day • Films To Be Buried With with Brett Goldstein #223

my guests here, Claire. Give them a break. Every week I invite a special guest over, I tell them they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life through the films that meant the most of them. But not today, because today, my friends, it's Judgment Day. The world has ended, and James McNicholas stands before me. He has one chance to prove why I should send him to Heaven and not to hell. What will happen? Find out in this episode.

Check out The Patriot at patreon dot com Forward slash Break Goold Steam, where you get an extra twenty minutes of chat with James. We talk about secrets you get the whole episode uncut and ad free and as a video. There's all sorts of other stuff there too. Check it out Patreon dot com, Forward slash Break Goldstein. So James mc nicholas is back for a third time. He is a brilliant podcaster, writer, football journalist, and stand up and actor. He's one of my favorite people and he's one of

my favorite guests. If you haven't listened to his last two episodes, I very much strongly suggest that you do, because they are some of the greats. We recorded this on Zoom a couple of weeks ago. It's a delight as ever. I really think you're going to enjoy it. So that is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy episode two hundred and twenty three of Films to be Buried with Judgment Day. Hello, and welcome to

Films to be Buried with Judgment Day. It is me Brett Goldstein, and I'm joined today by an actor, a sketch, a podcaster. He's a husband, he's a father of a dog. He's a lover, he's not a fighter. He is a legend, and he is one of my all time favorite guests on the show, which is what I'm having h back for the third time. He's a horrible historier and a boy. Please welcome. He's also a man. Welcome to the show, the one and Nini. I can't believe we've managed the

game here he is. Everyone cheers mister Jacks me Nicholas. Woo wow. What an intro. Thanks Brett. I can't believe you managed to get me again. I think I must the least famous person to have been on this show three times, and I think that's a record. I've got a decent chance of holding. I will agree to disagree.

You're very well known, in respected in your field. You are very popular among the custom crew of ted Lasso, who are all fans of your work because they will support the wrong team and they listen to your disgusting work that you do, your propaganda that you for that disgusting team. It can we briefly talk about why is that team doing so well? It's really upsetting. It's weird, isn't it. Yeah, I don't know. It won't last, Brett. It's you know now you're talking. That's my boy. Yeah.

The pessimist in me says it won't last. But I'm enjoying it while it is, that's the thing you've got enjoying the journey. I mean, it's quite phenomenal. It is amazing. I know that the Arsenal manager Michault, has watched Ted Lattter, so maybe in a way this is your fault. Fuck. I don't know if that's occurred to you as a possibility, but fuck yeah, like all seasons long, I'm still going to win the league and you're gonna be like, how

did they do it? How? And then one day you'll be filming at the ends stadium, go in the dressing room, you believe, saying believe above the door. No I did this to myself. Yeah, okay, but it must be a real treat for you as as someone as hard court as yourself, and you've had a difficult time of it. It must be really something. And are you enjoying it or are you spending the whole time gaining? Won't ask it? We'll go away this this this is the one off.

That's the reason I'm saying that's because I'm enjoying it so much. You know, I'm scared I'm going to let the spells going to break and we'll turn back into a big footballing pumpkin carriage thing. But no, I'm really enjoying it and we've suffered for it. Arsenal fans, you know we were. We were figures of fun for so long. So I'm glad that the supporters have got something to cheer four once and yeah, let's hope it lasts. That's lovely. Have you with all your work you've done your propaganda

work for us? Have you got the things like that that? Is I get accute? I actually get accused of that. I get people here like you work for the club, the owner stand cronky, kissed your mum, and these your real dad and mikol Arteta, and you have a cuddle after every match. You just he whispers things you're hear you write them. So do be careful with those propaganda allegations. Well, no, I'm glad you've been reading my tweets. Let me just be clear. It's absolutely true. You do. You do propaganda

for the club. But have you has it got you money? It's very lucrative aside from the riches. Has it got you in with the team? Are you are you? Are you talking to these people? Are you close with them? Has that changed your relationship with yeah, they're much more like real people to me. Now, you know, I suppose I would be breaking confidence as if I if I was specific. But it is interesting, like I tell you this to it. So I write about football, you know,

that's one of the things I do. And I interviewed a footballer not too long ago. He's an Arsenal player, and we did the interview and it went well. I thought we got on nice guy. And then afterwards it sort of got back to me that this particular player had said, oh, I didn't realize it was going to be that journalist and that publication I was writing for the athletic and he said, if I'd known it was going to be them, I wouldn't have done it. And

I was like, why why did he say that? And he said, well, apparently four years ago you wrote a piece where or one of your colleagues he wasn't sure, wrote a piece where, you know, you sort of slightly criticized the player and used some stats and said maybe he wasn't playing particularly well, and it was just a really interesting thing where you're like, oh wow, he remembered that. Not only did he read it, he remembered it and

he bore that grudge beast. May I ask you something, tell me one of the bad views that you've got many many years ago at the Fins, and I bet you can do it word for word. Yeah, of course. And that is one of the great sort of paradoxes and contradictions of my life is that I'm a performer, and when I perform, I would say I hold my critics in complete contempt, and yet I am effectively a football critic, and so reckoning with that duality is a

constant internal battle. I am my own enemy. Has it changed your relationship as a performer then, when you're getting reviewed and all that used to equally? That would be very grown up, wouldn't it if the answer was yes? But it's not. I think. I think I genuinely I sort of said it with an ironic tone, that I hold them in contempt, but it is kind of true, like I ultimately feel like, you know, what they're doing

has not a great deal of worth. I know this is my ego, that my prickled ego after criticism probably, but yeah, I do sort of think, well, we're the ones doing it, you know, what, do you know? Get up on stage? But I'm sure that's how football is. Think of me kick a ball. I can't. I'm rubbish. But so, yeah, it hasn't really led to a kind of appreciation. What do you like with critics? Do you like critics? They keep giving your awards, so I imagine you've sort of come around. Yeah, at the moment, I

seem to think they're all right. Do you know what? I think? It's so difficult. I don't. Sometimes I'm like the person making that I should never read the reviews because it's a discussion happening about you and your work. I don't know that you should be in Yeah, it's not for you. Is it not design for your validation? I know that that's how it feels as a performer. But a review exists to inform the public of whether

or not they might enjoy something. I don't know. Sometimes you have to follow the trail if you've been hurt by a critic, following them home and unhappy and you go, okay, you're the problem is as well that like, obviously, if you're going to sort of disregard criticism, it means you've got to disregard the positive reviews as well. But I think you do anyway, right, as in, that's the I think. That's the point is that if I ask you give me a line from a bad review you've had, you could.

But if I say, tell me about your great reviews, could you word for word them? Actually you probably could. I don't know. I've actually can you not see? I've got all those written on the walls behind me, then tattooed across my body. No, I know what you mean. I actually my irritation with reviews often it's like commercial So if you're doing a show, especially in Saint Edinburgh, you're sort of dependent on the reviews slightly to sell

the show. So often, like the value of like a four or five star review is purely a commercial one, and when you don't get it, you're like, oh, from a marketing perspective, having put all this work in, that's annoying or frustrating. But the words themselves don't tend to live with me for too long. You know, I had lovely reviews of things, and you know, by all means, if there any critics are listening, continue to write those

lovely reviews. But yeah, it's it is something I wrestle with and it is something that I factor in to my writing about sport. I think I write about sport now, but I do so with kind of the caveat that I accept I can't know as much about that profession as someone who's doing it every single day, and I think all critics would benefit from that perspective. Yeah. I

spoke to a footballer when preparing for Ted letter. I had spent some time with an older footballer and I asked him about critics and country stuff, and he said, he said, the reality is no one actually knows how it works. So people are saying all this shit on the TV or any thing, and they're like they don't know how we train and how much of it is rehearsing set pieces and like we have plays planned out, like so much of it is not at aol. What

you think what people are shouting at is wrong. It is like you don't understand what we actually what we've been doing, and what we're doing here, you know what I mean. Like it's almost a different game to what people think it is. And I don't know. I think I think I just get I read it. It's nothing to do with me, And I won't name the show.

There's a new show that's come out and I saw a review for it, and it's a fucking like twelve part show, must have taken years to make, and the review is simply the headline is not worth your time. And then there's a review and you go like, not worth your time. This is someone's, this is many many people's at least a year of their life, and you're saying not worth your time? And that's taken you how long to write that? It's just that, it's just it's

just insane. I do think maybe all critics should have to spend the amount of time it took to make the film to write the review. Maybe that's fair. If they spend a year thinking, really thinking and honing this perfect review, then maybe it's like, yeah, okay, I listen. Also, what sort of headline is not worth your time? I mean, who's thin? Who's the headless saying not worth the time? And thinks I might dip into that? I mean, I guess if it was about someone I knew that I

didn't like, I probably would read it beyond that. I think that's true. And actually, something that exists in sport, which I think exists less in art, is the way that fans or sometimes pundits or writers will kind of talk about a team and say, you know, they didn't want it, really they didn't want it, they didn't work hard. Yes, this is it. And I think that's ninety nine percent

of the time, complete projection and completely unfair. Like these guys are the absolute elite who have given blood, sweat and tears to get to the very top of their sport from being like six years old. I think they're capable of working hard, and so I think, you know,

you should try and always show people that respect. I think the things I don't like, the things I don't like interviews that I think are bad is one where you assume the intention exactly that we say either they don't want it, or if it's a film, where they go like he's clearly he clearly feels this, and you go,

you don't fucking know that. And the other crime is talking about a different film like it should have had more of this or whatever, and you go, yeah, but it didn't, Like there's a there's a reason it doesn't have more of the film. You're imagining this is the film, Yeah, this film. Talk about this film, not the film you'd prefer if you've made it. You know what I mean absolutely, Yeah. I do think it's an interesting discussion that one of, like do you need to have been part of that process?

Like do you have to have worked in film in some capacity to really be able to write about film with integrity? I guess I guess the answer is no, because an audience member hasn't had that experience, and ultimately they're who it's for. But I think for me, simply,

the reason criticism should exist is to elevate stuff. That's what I think, as in stuff you haven't seen that is amazing and perhaps you didn't quite get the first time you saw it, and then you read an essay on it and it's like because of this and this and this and this, and you're like, oh my god, I need to see that again. And then it like opens the whole world of stuff. That's where I think it serves a great purpose, and it's a sort of

wonderful thing. Like in Rata TWI like in Ratta TWOI you know, no one unless he writes that review, no one's going to a little restaurant with a rat as a chef with the rat, but but he champions theode. Yeah, if you haven't seen you Rats two e A. What you're doing with your life be don't listen and fast forward. You know, Charlie Brooker did a huge five minute piece on his show about The Wire and how everyone had to watch the Wire. Thank you, Charlie Brooker. You did

good for the world, you know what I mean? Like, I think it all comes down to fucking being. It's all yes, ending again, isn't it. I think if you hate stuff, you should probably keep your mouth shut out. I guess, is what I think. But I what's your job to write review every week? I guess? But there, I guess what The interesting thing is that reviewing is

also somehow performative. You know. For some people that is their persona that they hate stuff, and they play up to that, and that's that is there art that they create these little pieces where they take things apart. But yeah, it feels a bit cruel to me. Yeah, I don't like it. You're a nice boy. Oh now if we can say this, come and say this. You are mid shooting Horrible Histories season season I think ten and eleven. I think two seasons back to back. Yeah, it's two

seasons back to back for CBBC. It's a lot of history there's so much history. It's twenty four episodes, twenty four half hours. I play one hundred and twenty six characters or something. How many accents are you doing? Just the one sort of like an estuary close to London accent, some one who's pretending to be less partial than they actually are. Yeah, and it just seems to suit everything I do. No, I'm doing. I'm approximating many accents. I'm

working from a core base of about six. Okay, that's really good, and then just sort of doing them like louder or quieter, depending on the circumstances. That's what being a star is, and that's what I'm doing on children's television in Britain, refusing to do accents properly because I've reached that level. You're a bloody hero and an inspiration

to us all. Thanks mate, And how is your As we know to the long term listeners and fans of Tatimate Nicholas, you will also know he is still married to Camille, who done, who is the other favorite guest of the show, and a woman with huge death anxiety and fear of playing. But don't we have a laugh? Yeah, she's good, she's good. She's well, she's she. I think she won't run me saying she because she started having

therapy now. I think she just maybe talked about that on here before, and I think it's really helped to get handled on it. She had a session in this very chair a few hours ago. It's still warm with her anxiety. If I may ask, has her doing therapy changed your relationship, changed the way she talks with you? Has it made things? Has it led to better things, worse things? Has there been an argument because of therapy? Has it made things easier? How do you describe it?

It's really interesting, isn't it, Because like, if you've ever been in a relationship with someone who's been going to therapy, I think you sort of definitely know when they've been, like even if you know normally at the same time every week or whatever it might be. But there is a tonal difference before and after a lot of chat about boundaries, yeah, laugh chat. Yeah, she keeps trying to break up with me afterwards. I don't know what some

advice she's getting. No, I like this therapist because I find that afterwards, you know, if there's been a disagreement in the week or something We've not seen I to nine times out of ten after the session that is resolved in some way. So I don't know. I'm obviously not privy to what goes on, but my experience of it is that this therapist is setting there saying like he's a good blow this change. You want to you want to give him a break to be honest, Yeah, no,

I don't even know who it is. I mean I've never met them, you know, of course, but great. Maybe they're found in my podcast. I don't know. Maybe they love horrible histories. Maybe it's beata, but they always seem to be I'm coming out all right of it. So far fantastic, which is good. That's ideal. Nothing better than the therapists taking your side. Yeah yeah, yeah, No, greater win that is. That is the biggest win in a relationship.

I think. Yeah, that's back he told you. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, great, lovely. I'm very happy for you. Well, And sometimes there's like, I mean, I think all relationships have this, but you know, come he might say how my therapist says this, and I'll be like I said that three weeks ago. Do you know exactly what you mean? You won't take it from me, will you? You take it from a professional, okay, all right, someone with a qualification rather than just a

man with an opinion and an ego. I've actually got a very popular podcast. I put it out to the listeners and they voted that's what we came to. And that's not good enough for you. These are good people. James mc nicholas, you have died again. Why because it is judgment Day. You stand on the edge of heaven and hell. So you must now tell me the best and worst thing you ever did in this life and answer some questions about film, and in the end I will decide whether you get to go to heaven or

that sounds fair? Yeah, I think So what's the worst and best thing you did in this life? I didn't know about this bit, but the best as in like for the world. You're you're selling me, you as a as as like you listen, you're gonna go to heaven or you're gonna go to hell, and you need to tell me the best and worst thing you did. Okay, the worst thing I ever did is easier. I've pissed in a lot of people's sinks, uh, and they haven't known like they haven't known you have just walked into

their kitchen and done it. No, it's not the kitchen. No, it's in the bathroom. Can you explain if you've got a very high waist, why do you need I just think it's a better height than a toilet. Don't get me wrong. I wipe it down afterwards. But I don't know if I sort of revealed this on air because no one's gonna let it doesn't matter because you're obviously happy together. It does suggest you've got a very small Penis that that is the right height for a thing?

You just pop it, lay it on the It's not too far down to the toilet. It's yours long enough that it descends into the toilet. Yeah, oh wow, Brea, congratulations, mine's dipping in. I have to, like I get on tiptoes. You got step ladder, haven't you? You take it in with you? What's that ladder? Bill? Don't worry about it. At least they're not doing this. Think, Am I right? Why Why are you always popping it in the sink

in the bathroom? Then I understand if if the toilet's busy, you've got to doing the think, but the toilets of any where, you're still going to sink. I just think it's more practical. I don't know if it's hereditary, because I once told my uncle that I did this. He said, yeah, I do that as well, and we'd never discussed it fror to that point. So somewhere in my genetics, right, that's big or small? Have you pissed in my sink?

I never pissed, and tell fascinating, well fascinating. What I say is, if you're listening and you know me, and I've been around your house, give the sink a little wiper around. Look you asked me've got the worst thing I've ever done is and I respect it because you've been honest. What's the best thing you've ever done? Leads to all the sinks like the kindest thing. Interpret it how you will. You're trying to impress me, so I don't send you to health for pissing in all the sinks.

I think the best thing I've ever done is being a good brother. I've been a good brother. Go on, I'm not sure I've been a good son. Okay, whether I'm a good husband's in the balance, but I think I've been a good brother. I've got three siblings. They're all younger than me, and I think I've done a decent job of being like a big brother. You know. I've helped them out when I've been able to, and I've offered advice when it's been asked, but never, you know,

without unsolicited. I am not one of those brothers who likes that over protective of my sisters. Let them do what they want. Okay, So now you have to decide what happens to me or is at the end. Well, let me see based on your two stories. Being a good brother is a wonderful, wonderful thing, but pissing in people's things is bad. I think we can all agree. I still can't decide. Let's ask you some more questions, this time about film, and hopefully that will decide it

for me. What is the film that you saw when you were too young to see it that affected you the most? Okay, by the way, hard doing this because obviously A pized a load of films for your show. I had to go. I had to go and look up what I've done. Fortunately, people have made spreadsheets, do you know. Great someone made a spreadsheet up to one hundred and then they said, I can't be bothered to keep doing this. Yeah, it might have been that one. Actually,

that's fair enough. Yeah, that is that is reasonable, but very sweet to them to go that far. So the film that I saw and I was too young, that affected me. I wasn't I wasn't way too young to see it. But it was Dante's Peak. Okay, lovely film. Yeah, in Damilton Present only pg. Thirteen. Yeah, I actually took the liberty of looking it up. Did you know that?

There's a website called kids in mind dot com And it goes it's quite like every film in there like a repository, and it tells you sort of what is potentially offensive within the film. But it's incredibly detailed, like for Dante's Peak. The section of language says one mumbled F word, some mild obsenites, a few scatological references, a couple of anatomical references, discussion topics, volcano's geology, panic, saving people message, natural disasters cannot be predicted or controlled. It's

categorized every movie in this way. It's a great website. Anyway, Why did Dante peak? How? And why did it affect you so much? I was only about eleven, which again close to the PG. Thirteen. If a parent was with me, I would have been fine, leg yeah, but they weren't

as far as I were cool. Do you remember there's a scene in the film there's a grandmother character and there's like acid rain because natural disasters are happening, and they're on the raft in the middle of like an acid lake, and it looks like they're doomed, essentially, and grandma jumps off the raft into the acid water and pushes the raft with her kids and grandkids to shore and saves them effectively. And they drag her out of the acid water, and her legs are all burned. You

see the burned legs. That's mentioned on kids in mind dot com. Don't worry about it. That's in the repository, mate, Yeah, let me tell you. That's something in the repository about that. He go. A woman wades through acid water and later you see blood on her face and neck and bloody patchy burns on her legs. So rible, but it sort of really haunted me actually, And I grew up incredibly close to my maternal grandmother, a woman called Barbara, and

I spent loads of my childhood with her. I'd say she's sort of like she was sort of my favorite person growing up and I was sort of her favorite person, which was lovely. And that scene it chilled me. And what children about it was. It wasn't the bloody, patchy legs. It was the self sacrifice that made me so like emotional that I almost couldn't get a handle on it.

And it was the first time I really understood that idea of like a parent or a grandparent being prepared to sort of sacrifice themselves for their loved ones or you know, their children and grandchildren. And it stayed with me so much that I remember as a kid when I wanted to not go to school, I remember there was a time that had to motivate myself to cry. It wasn't because I was acting at that point in time. It was just like, I think I need to get

some sympathy off mam or dad. And when I used to when I used to like really try to cry, I always used to think, just imagine that's your grandma jumping off the raft into the acid water, and it would bring me out of floods of tears. The thing is, we're talking about critics and stuff that's so fascinating. And this is why there shouldn't be reviews, because Dante's Peak is considered a piece of shit film. And that is a real profound thing that happened to you from that film,

like a maze. Yeah. No one's thinking Dante's Peak is going to really affect you and stay with you for your whole life. And yet here we are. Well, let's not forget. I am the man who said I think last time I was on that, the most romantic film I've ever seen was Casper. So here it is, though, I mean, that's fair. There's gonna be some unconventional choices, but Dante's Peak. Yeah, And I was young and I was prot being affected by it, and I was very

affected by it. I love you and your grandma famously. She was in my show. She's good. She's good value. If you could play one character in a film, which one would it be, I'd need to be a bit older. But the character is called Randy the Ram Robinson and it's played by Mickey Rourke. In The Wrestler. You want to be the Wrestler? I want to be the Wrestler. Interesting, I mean, obviously, like all comic actors, my reflex is to go like the Joker, because I think every comic

actors like her, I could do a great Joker. That there's like a darkness in me that people haven't really seen yet, and like, if I just get the opportunity, it could really like change perceptions of me. But I thought that was a bit of a cliche, and I also thought you're putting yourself in competition with some pretty decent performances there. There's like a real heritage around that part. But I've chosen the wrestler, and the reason being is

that sort of a secret passion of mine. I love wrestling. I did not know this. Yeah, it's it's quite a sort of low key thing, but I love it. I'm fascinated by it. This is why you're a really good value on this year, because it's a new, massive revelation every day. And we've known each other years. I've known it for years. You would never worked mentioned wrestling. Honestly, on my life. I'd say once a month, I say to Camille, I'm packing it all in. I'm becoming a wrestler.

At least once a month. He'd be a fucking great wrestler, as I know. And that's why I need to play one in a movie. The reality is it's not going to happen. Now I've accepted that I'm not going to be the WWE Champion, but I want that idea. But I think I would love because the other thing is, you've got to think it's not just about the finished article of the film. It's how much am I going

to enjoy the process. And presumably Mickey when he played that part, had to go to like a wrestling school and get slammed on a mat and chucked around and learn how to throw a wrestling punch. And I would love that aspect of it like I would. Honestly, it's a dream of mine to train to do that. I can talk more about why, because I think it makes perfect sense. I'm someone who's in the entertainment industry, but I also love sport and where those two things meet.

So like story and character, but the sort of live atmosphere and the drama of sport is in wrestling. That's where they intersect. So I love it. It's like manufactured drama. I love the pageant try, I love the spectacle. I respect the people, the athletes who do it. They work really insanely hard, like, it's not like other sports. There's no offseason. They work like several nights a week. Their body get battered and bruised, and that's obviously what happens

in the movie. You know, it's a guy's at the end of his career, and it's actually I don't know this for a fact, but there's a great documentary film about wrestling, could Be on the Map, which I really recommend, and it focuses in part on a real wrestler called Jake the Snake Roberts, who was like a big deal in like the eighties and early nineties. And I feel like Mickey's interpretation, Mickey robs interpretation his character is in

part based on Jai Snake Roberts. He's like a man whose life has sort of slightly gotten away from him, and he's kind of caught in the mystique of this persona that he's created, but his real life, his family's kind of disintegrating around him. And that is a theme of that movie as well that I really am interested in. And another reason I'd love to play the part is that idea of like when do you give up? When are you ready to relinquish that part of your life.

When do you give up team propaganda for arsenal and become a wrestler? I guess is what you're well, I guess maybe that is the internal question. I mean, yeah, I think anyone who's in the arts who is not extremely successful reckons, or even if they are extremely successful, reckons with that question at various points in their life. Yeah, like, at what point am I just pursuing a dream or doing this because it's become my identity? Am I still contented?

Am I still satisfied by the work? Could I be better served by doing something else, being somebody else? I find that question really interesting. What would be your wrestling name? Oh wow, my wrestling name would be changed The Beast McNicholas. Yeah, I guess Beast, Yeah, the Beast. Yeah, it's it's all there for me. Yeah, I've even got like a shaved head. Now, it's the esthetic exactly. That's what I'm thinking. I'm looking at you and thinking, I mean I'm a bit more

sort of like British wrestler from the eighties past. That's what people are shouting at the same I know as you come out, Brett, you, I mean, you'll get me excited now that that is sort of my dream. It is kind of mad, and it never was. It came to me late. I just sort of fell for it as a world. And I do think it's a good film wrestler, and I think it's a hello part lovely lovely answer. Yeah, what is the worst date you ever had at a film? Or time? Could be worst time?

I struggled with this one, you know, I really struggled with it. I've got an answer. I'm just too good at dates. No one's ever had a bad date with me. Don't write in comment section past. Yeah, if we can all focus on the pissing and sync stuff, just let that attract a good guy. Yeah, I've got one. It's not a feature length film. I hope that's acceptable. You tell me Raymond Briggs. You wear Raymond Briggs the snow the snow Man when the wind blows right. He's got

one called Father Christmas. Yeah, and it's it's not a feature length film, but it's a lovely Christmas film. It's based on a book that Ray Bridges did. I think m Briggs died quite recently, didn't it. And it's brilliant and it's a Christmas tradition in my house that we

watch it on Christmas Eve. My hatched my childhood house growing up, and one Christmas about I don't know, ten twelve years ago, when we were all sort of getting a bit too old for that to be a thing, we had a big row as a family in the house on Christmas Eve, just like over nothing, you know, like, well you said we weren't doing presents this year, that

kind of thing, and you hadn't brought any presence. I get it, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I or somebody said, well we haven't and we haven't and guess what, we haven't watched Father Christmas. So that's Christmas ruined sort of thing. And then someone was like, right, well, if you got it, you've got a DVD. Right, well, we'll put it on then. And we put it on and sat not making eye contact in awkward like stiff silence for thirty two and it's or whatever it is Father

Christmas going around like get all the presents ready. We will just sat there fuming with each other. So funny you hate watched Father Christmas. We hate watched Father Christmas on Christmas Eve and it's like the thing that brings me most joy. We sat there be like, right, well, I suppose we'll watch it. Then, yeah, well we will watch it, and I suppose we'll have fun pie while doing it, will we? Yes, I'm enjoying this. If you're enjoy this, happen Christmas this year? This is so festive,

you fucking pie. Maybe I'm not a good brother. I don't know. I forget presents once a year. I'm too busy in this thing. If you could live in the world of one film, which would it be? Right? Well? I thought about this because there are some amazing worlds depicted in films, and I love fancy and sci fi,

and so that sounds appealing. But the death traps most of them, like yeah, yeah, exactly, like you know, if you hop into Lord of the Rings or whatever, and orcs taking you out early doors or dragons or something. So my answer, I think I've actually cracked this is James Cameron's Avatar, and the reason being is that the mechanic in Avatar is that you're a human in this spaceship effectively, and you jump in a little pod and then you get to be one of these avatars aliens

running around experiencing Pandora. I believe the planet is called we're all about to hear a lot more about it. And basically, if you die as an avatar, you don't die in real life. Do you see what I'm saying? Right, Yes, I do see what you're saying. So you get to be there in three D or whatever it is. I don't know why he's up to camera. You're in the I'm actually you're like all the plants and lovely colors. Look at the animation on that. Wow, your legs are

a bit long. That sort of stuff's happening. But if you something should be all you, you can fall down a hole, you get shot. You just wake up a bit stressed in the spaceship. Yeah, yeah, I think I remember. Yeah, I seem to remember in Avatar one as it. I guess it will soon be known. You just sort of wake up a bit like, Oh, that's lucky that that was just my avatar and not me. So basically, the answer is avatar because you get to explore the world

without consequences, without being great. Answer correct, I said, that's correct, Actually great. Thanks. What is your favorite children's film, Oliver, Yes, brilliant film, so dark. I watched it again. Yes, the Boy is that a dark you film. It's very, very dark, but there's just some incredible look I love the music. I remember I saw the show when I was a kid, and but the performances in it, I mean Ron Moody's performance as Vegan is sensational. Oliver read, incredible is in

there as Bill Sikes? That's my dream? Well a minute is basically what I did for Roy Kent, But yeah, that's so true. Where based in mine there's Bill Sakes with with a bit more emotional availability. Was Oliver read the ex footballer that you spent time to prepare it? I didn't know he played how interesting it is. Yeah. He was always like they don't know what what I'm doing out there, and I was like, yeah, no one does. And just the scale of the production is extraordinary. Yeah.

I honestly it's an amazing film. And I feel like as a kid it was always on Like maybe it was again like a Christmas thing, but I feel like it was on Telly an unusual amount every Bank holiday at least it was. Yeah, it still is. I reckon they're still rolling it out. Yeah, and I can't knock it. I just think it's it's got drama, it's poignant, great music, big numbers, It's got everything you want. You're a fan.

I love it. I absolutely love it, and I in all seriousness did see it really in them was like surprised. How dark the last sort of twenty minutes of it are. I mean like really dark, like man gets hung woman gets battered to death. You know, kids isn't really happy. He just sort of his return to these people that will look after him. But it isn't. It's kind of weirdly sort of he's still been through a lot of trauma. At the end, Yeah, he's been through It's quite a melancholic.

It isn't like a sort of yeah ending. It's like, oh god, I mean, I hope he's gonna be all right. They've all been through quite a lot. He'll need some therapy. That's what he's going to need, so much therapy and hope. But if if it's Camille's therapist, therapist is going to say, well, Bill Sykes was probably in the right. Actually hang on it, am I Bill Sykes in this relationship? Of course you want to look at you. That's true. Actually, big scary

wrestler build a based Sykes. What is the film that you didn't think you would like that. You ended up loving It's the Big Short, and it's because I didn't. As a premise, I think that I would really engage with a movie about the fun actual crash. And actually, even in the first fifteen minutes of it, I was like,

I need a glossary for this film. Yeah, if I told you that The Biggest Short lost me maybe five minutes in where someone looks at Cameron said, I think it's Brad Pitt looks at Cameron goes, I'll make this simple for you. For people who don't understand anything, you have buns right, and I wanted to put in my hand and go go back further. I don't know what a bund is. Yeah, that's true. You've just simplified it, and I've already lost. I've lost done to step one

of You're simpler. Well, I didn't see it in a cinema, and I think that was crucial because if I recall correctly, at those points in the movie, I was pausing and googling stuff. Now you could argue the movie hasn't successfully done its job if I'm having to google it. But I think maybe most people Brett with like real jobs know what bonds are. Yeah, I think we are the exception, not the rule. Just think it's a spy. We're like, yeah, buns, it's got buns and the buds shorted. I'm like, what

do you want about? But in the end it won me round and listen. I mean I should have known, really, because Adam McKay and I've liked a lot of this stuff. But and I only saw it quite recently. And actually it's one of those things where, yeah, I watched it on a streaming service, because I remember I was sort of pausing and starting to be like, okay, so that's that. And I genuinely learned something. I mean, it was sort of an area of recent history that I'll hold my

hands up. I knew nothing about, and I took quite a lot away from it. Which part are you playing when they do the Horrible Histories episode of it? I don't know. Hopefully hopefully Steve Krell, He's got it is scary by the way Horrible Histories you think of it, It's like, oh, we do like the Tutors, and we do like Romans and ancient Greeks. In the forthcoming series, there is a sketch set in the year I was born. Yeah, nineteen eighty six. It's about the first mobile phones. Jesus,

that is scary. God it have you literally run out of history? Jesus, I think we're running out. I know ket we're caught upside the crown. You're gonna have to slay down, caught up and now it's awkward. What is the single most erotic moment in film? Right? What are people saying for this? I mean I don't even remember. Probably something you know, fake, like the feel of the breeze exactly. I remember coming on this show the first time and complaining about that people weren't actually choosing this

question is here for you? Thanks? Well? You know what's interesting is that out and out sex scenes in movie I don't think are often hugely erotic. Um. I don't know if you feel the same, but I just feel like there's a the eroticism for me at least often existing, like the tension the one I've chosen. Have you seen a movie called Don John? Yes? I have, and I think it's wildly underrated. It wasn't a hit. It's a great film, and I think he's really good jose Gordon Levit.

I think he directed it. He did and I think it's a great I think it's a really nice movie. Thoroughly recommend it. And he plays opposite Scarlett Hanson in it, and there's a scene where they are outside her front door then keep talking bring it home. They're outside her front door and she's like, I've got to go inside, and he's like this very sort of jockish ladies man and basically she's sort of dry humping him outside of the corridor, isn't she Yeah, But she's talking to him

while she's doing it. She's sort of giving him some dirty talk and he desperately wants to go inside and he can't, but she knows that he wants to, and she's very powerful in that moment. And this guy who's like the consummate ladies man is sort of slightly brought to heal by Scarlette Hanson's character. And it is incredibly charged,

an erotic and it feels very real Cian like. It's a credit to their performances because it feels like a true private moment and it feels authentic to like experiences you've had in your life. I think a bit as well, like I don't know, this feels like insanely personal, but like, you know, the sort of traditional movie thing of like oh we met, we fell in love with, you know, going through in Terrati's close off, and that's fine, but it's all sort of I think real life's always a

bit more. There's more sort of forwards and back and one you know, breaks an accelerator, and this captures that quite well. I don't know if you're agree. I think that is an excellent answer and a very rotic moment and a great film that was totally missed out one that scene. This is what critics should be doing, telling people to go and see Don John. Maybe they did.

Which film you don't care about as a whole, has a single sequence that you love, So you don't like the film, but there's a bit in it you're like that one of the great bits. Small Soldiers, Yes, Joe Dante, Small soldiers, Joe Dante, Small Soldiers, Joe Dante, who made the Gremlins films. Yeah, it's about Jones. Yeah, it is the voice. It's about some sentient toys. Effectively, there are

a war with each other. I think what the plot is that the military developed some sort of AI military highly intelligent microchip and it gets implanted either by accident or by the design into these children's toys, and they end up in a house and go haywire. And there is earth sequence or a scene where the sort of

bad toys they're called the Commando Elite. I think Tommy Lee Jones is the leader, and they're hanging out in a garage and the young lad in it and Kurston Dunce sort of escape from the house and they're like, we're away from the nasty toys. Everything's fine. And then the garage door blows off, like a hole gets blown in it, and that song by Edwin Starr that goes,

what Yeah, what is it? Good? Fun? Absolutely? And then all these toys come out on these like improvised vehicles they've made out of things they found in the garage, so they've like stuck wheels on a cheese grater, and it's just like it's the moment the movie has been building towards. You're like, they're in these toys with malicious intent and military genius. At what point are we going to see that manifest? And then the garage doors blow off and these five vehicles come out and Tommy Lee

Jones as a toy he stood on the top. You got that song in the background, and it's just a great scene. It's a great scene and then a little chasing shoes. It's top stuff. I believe that that song war It's also in the Barry Levinson film Toys. Really, I believe so, and they're both about adverts. It's used in a few movies for sure. Really really good answer based in very good What is the film that stayed with you the longest after seeing it? You know what I mean? Took it took a while to let go

of it. Obviously, there are films you remember forever, but where you're like, I was crying for a week or whatever, I was orney for a week. Yeah, I think And this, i'd say, is one of my less maybe niche choices. I think it was This is England. Actually I really loved that film. I thought it was brilliant and central performance from what's his name is? No? Not Tommy T.

Stephen Graham is just extraordinary. And the scene where he sort of beats somebody up in a racially motivated attack, I feel like that film did to me what that character does. So that character arrives and he's charming and captivating, and alluring, and everyone is kind of sucked into his orbit and there's a threat of violence in the background.

But then it all explodes in that one scene and all the darkness of his character floods in, and I feel like my relationship to the movie was parallel to that. Where As I was watching it, I was like, Wow, this is so great, such an interesting, colorful depiction of like life in a particular period of time in England, And there are these characters who I'm sort of falling for and I empathize with, and even Stephen Graham's character,

it's like he holds a sort of roguish appeal. And then I felt like that movie, just like Bam, just beat the crap out of me, basically, and it's brutal. It's really brutal, and it lived with me for a little while, and I still think about it quite all. Actually, I've not watched that film quite quite a long time because I genuinely find that seemed really difficult. Yeah, is this way you shaved your head to become a racist stug? No,

it's to be a wrestler, Bret. The real reason is because it makes horrible histories easier, because they can tape the wigs to my head. I would say this, you're fucking cool, this fucking You're gonna make a great wrestler. Thanks man, I'm thinking forward to it. Are you going to keep it like this? Interesting question? I don't know. I think my agent's a bit like weary of me keeping it. I think, I mean I've sort of explained that.

Do you like it? Yeah? I do like it, but I do see that you might get pushed down an alleyway. But then if I want to play the wrestler, then maybe that's not a problem exactly. Thank you. What is the film that made you feel better about the world? It's School of Rock? Actually, yeah, how could it not? Love it? Love it? Love it. I genuinely will go and watch the final performance that they do from School of Rock if I'm feeling blue. Yeah. And by the way, I love Jack Black. I have to say, like, I

really really loved Jack Black. I think he's absolutely extraordinarily talented. Do you want to come with me to D Live when they come in the summer? So much like in the Last Fortnight, I've spent quite a lot of time watching clips of Tenacious D, and he's an incredible incredible performer. He really is, and I think he's great on screen. He manages to sort of be big and wild and crazy,

but it never feels out place. And what I love about this movie is how earnest it is, how unapologetically earnest it is, Like there's no veil of irony to it, and it would be so easy for them to be. Yeah, and I guess that shouldn't be a surprise if you look at like Richard linkle Iiter's other films, like there is that earnest quality. I think that runs through the Yeah,

and I think that, Yeah, he's not a snarky guy. No, And I think and and genuinely like as someone who's sort of professionally snarky, I think like as comics, like we're often like quite professionally snarky. As I get older, I'm increasingly interested in, like, how can we just be like finding permission to just be earnest and for that to be okay for me? And Yeah, and I think you're very good at that. Actually, I think you're pretty good at that. But School of Rock is exemplary at it,

and it's just so much fun. Makes you think, Ah, everything's right in the world. Yeah, yeah, you know what, it's an interesting, like behind the scenes thing that I learned about school, which maybe is like a thing that will go towards your thought, and it is that. I think in the original script, you know, he's replacing a teacher,

subsetucting teacher mister Sneeblee. He gets a phone call we need a replacement teacher, and I think in the original script the teacher was injured or the teacher broke their leg and maybe you saw that, and Jack Black was like, I don't want any injury. I don't want it. I don't want it to have been something nasty or sad that's happened, like as in, I don't want that. It's really interesting. You don't want there to be any sort of darkness about this teacher, like where's this teacher gone?

And like it shouldn't be. I think it was sort of done as a joke. You see this person break their leg or something like that, and he was like, I don't I don't want that. Wow, yeah, but that fits perfectly. Yeah. What is your favorite couple in a film? It's Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore in The Wedding Singer. Wow. I mean one of my top ten couples is Adam Sandler Andrew Barrymore in fifty First Dates. Yeah, well, I

actually think Adam Sandler Drew Barrymore. It's interesting, isn't it How some couples, particularly rom coms, just have a certain chemistry, you know, like Hanks and Ryan. Yeah, and I think those two Sarnlett and Barrymore are so again believable on screen, like their relationship feels so real. But in The Wedding Singer, there's just a couple of things. I mean, it's a film I really loved, Like when it came out and

I was only young, I really enjoyed it. But there's a couple of things, like they're friends, their proper friends. She's like a good friend to him, and he goes through a breakup. And I always am drawn to that because my own relationship is like that. We were friends first and you know, sort of nursed each other through breakups as friends and then ended up getting together. So I've got a soft spot for anything like that. It sounded like I was going to cry then, bas I

just had a cough. But there's also a little bit in that movie that really stays with me, I don't remember, but there's I think he's just been at the altar and he tells Drew Barrymore he's written the song. Yeah, And I think the song is called Somebody Kill Me Please. It's really great, it's really funny. It's like starts as like a gentle ballad and it ends to him just like screaming into the microphone. I think that the lyrics are I want to die pretty pretty please, somebody kill me.

And the camera cuts back to Drew Barrymore and she's sort of as it's been progressing, she's sort of looked a little bit alarmed. But when it sort of gets to the end and he's at his most broken, she's sort of smiling, yeah, like she's and she says like that was great, and she's kind of laughing at him. And when he is at his most ugly and his most broken, she sees something sort of funny and gentle in that when he's screaming abuse about somebody in a song.

And I think that's the great quality in a couple. What film inspired you to do something slight roundabout? Answer this? The film is soul animated movie, one of the other time greats and The interesting thing about it is that the message of that film is kind of that it's not about doing one thing, you know, having these great dreams and ambitions, but it's about appreciation of life in

its moment to moment experience. And I think because of who I am and the work I have done or do and kind of work I've wanted to do, I've always thought about my life in terms of, like, if I could just get that job, I could just play that part, if I could just get that script commissioned, if I could just persuade that footballer. I'm not an anchor all these things. It was four years ago, give Me Let It Go Boy nearly said his name his

name there we're listening to that. I've always been sort of guilty of thinking about my life in terms of those achievements and milestones. And that's obviously what character Joe in Soul goes through where his focus is. So we've got this big break, this potential big break, and he kind of pursues it almost at the expense of everything else. And in there's that incredible scene where he sits down at a piano and he plays a piece of music.

It's called Epiphany and it's by it's co written by Trent Rezner, who's the guy from like nine inch Nails, And in that he's I think as as he's playing or just before he plays it, he sort of has all these like trinkets from his experiences in his life and he realizes that, you know, this thing that he's got in this pedestal as this ultimate dream, a goal and ambition, that's not why he's here. It's not defining, and that you know, real purpose and meaning can be

found in the day to day. So that movie inspires me to try and keep that perspective and remember that it's not the destination, it's the journey, and you know that there is joy and satisfactions be found just in being here. Based that sequence that you talk about, I have watched it. I have used it for my mental health that I have watched it a lot. I think it is one of the It is a very very very special, profound sequence, and I'm very glad that you

picked it. And it's mental that it's in a kids film, I mean honestly, but it's also such a complicated. It's such a I think of all the Pixar films and every time they sort of tucked them. But it's it's such a like it's so unusual for a Hollywood for a Hollywood film where the message is completing the mission following your dream is not the answer. The answer is leaves.

That is like fucking huge. But it doesn't surprise me that that would resonate with you as well, because you know, well, because we're also we're in the world, and I think if you're in these worlds, you may be prone to forgetting that. And that's that's partly what the movie is about.

I also think another layer is added to it by by the fact that it is written by Trent Resina, and you know, in the nineties he was writing and recording music so dark and about a man sort of nihilistic almost in terms of like destroying himself, and he was almost living it as art. And now he's at another point in his life doing very different work and with a very different perspective. You know, when you know that as well, I think it adds another layer to

that sequence. It is an amazing, amazing sequence based you have answered all the questions very well, and now I must decide will you go to heaven or will you go to hell? Who will be surprised that, of course, after all these wonderful answers, I am sending you to heaven. Well done, You've made it. But that doesn't mean I won't resurrect you in the end. You could offer to give me one missed a bit. In the end, you can offer to give me one film that is meaningful

in the hope I will spare you. Then I will make my final decision. No spoilers. I sort of already made it. Okay, it's got to be soul, hasn't it. It's got to be soul. Correct, You're back into heaven. Well done, Yes, beasts, James the Beast mc nicholas. I look forward to seeing you wrestle in heaven with your friends. Thanks Man and Arteta back. Yeah, well, you're always work from You are truly a magnificent, thoughtful, funny, sensitive and

brilliant man. Is there anything you would like to tell people to listen to look out for a watch in the coming months. No, not really. I mean, you know, I'm in a few movies here and there, but I won't tell you which, and then people will just be like that's that guy from Breast podcast. No listen, go and watch Don John. Yeah, if we've done anything, If we've done anything, it's established that people need to go and watch Don John. That's my message to you, great beast.

I love you, Thank you, have a wonderful time in heaven. I see you, see I will do. I look forward to come back for the fourth one. Thank you. Films to be buried with Bretch, run out of famous friends. I work on a new concept. You just have to name fifteen other films you've seen that you haven't mentioned so far. Yeah, every question is gone, tell me another one. Yeah, wors we see Okay, all right, good good day to you. Bye. So that was episode two hundred and twenty three. Head

over to the Patreon at patreon dot com. Forward slash Brett Goldstein for the extra twenty minutes of chat, secrets and video with James. Thank you so much to James for giving me his time. I very much. Hope you're all well. I really appreciate you listening. Next week it's going to be another banger. Thanks to Scoopings, Pip and there's tracks, some pieces of Network. Thanks to Buddy Piece for producing it. Thanks to ACAS for hosting it. Thanks

to Adam Richardson. For the graphics, at least align them for the photography. Come and join me next week for another incredible guests. But that's it for now. In the meantime, have a lovely week and please, now more than ever, be excellent to each other