Fran Kranz (writer/director of Mass) • Films To Be Buried With with Brett Goldstein #197

they've died. Then they get them to discuss their life through the films that meant the most of them. Previous guests include Barry Jenkins, Kevin Smith, Jamila Jamil, Sharon Stone, and even Clyde Blambele's. But this week it's the incredible actor, writer and director Fran Krantz. Head over to the Patreon at patron dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein, where you

get about thirty men. It's extra chat with Fran. You get secret, you get beginnings and endings, you get deep stuff, you get a video, you get the whole episode of uncut and add free all of that stuff and more. Check it out over at patreon dot com. Forward Slash Brick Holds Team Ted last season two is available on Apple tv Plus along with season one. You can watch all of that and Soulmates and super Bob is available

on Amazon Prime in most places. The big news is that tickets are selling very fast for the massive, huge, big live Films to be Buried with Live, live, live at the Hackney Empire on July second. Make sure you don't miss out. Get your tickets from Plosive dot co dot uk and Hackney Empire dot co dot uk and we will have a rice at all time and get amongst it. Come on, everyone, So fran Krans right, listen to this. Listen carefully please. You know me, I take

films very seriously. I saw this film mass when I was in America. I went to the cinema. It was good, but I knew nothing about it. I went on my own, as I like to do, to the cinema and it fucking I think it is the best film of the year. It will take a very special film to knock this one off my number one spot. If you have not seen the film, I thoroughly though I cannot recommend it enough.

Please watch the film and then listen to this podcast, because this podcast is with the writer and director of fran Krowns of that film, and he was fucking amazing and we spend an awful lot of time talking about the film, and I think what he had to say about it was absolutely fascinating and I think it will get so much more out of this episode if you've seen the film, and regardless of this episode, you should see the film because it is really really special. That's it.

Fran Krowns, he's an actor, he's in Cabin in the Woods, he's in all kinds of in so many films you'd love, and then out of nowhere, he decides he's going to write and direct this film and he's I mean, it's fucking amazing. Anyway, that's enough. You get the gist. I think this film is amazing. I think the man who made it is amazing, and I'm very grateful I got to speak to him, and I really think you're going

to enjoy this. So that is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy Episode one hundred and ninety seven of Films to be Buried with Hello and welcome to Films to be buried with. It is I Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by an actor, a training daya a Donnie Darkoa, a villager, a TV hitch, a cabin in the woods, a dollhouser, a producer, a writer and director, and maker of the best film of the year. And I know it not. The year is not over. But if a film tops the film this band made,

I will be astonished. Please blugs of the show, the one and only. Can't believe we've got him. What an honor here he is. It's mister Frank Brands. Oh that was great. Hey, I mean that's definitely the best introduction

I'll ever get. Oh, thank you man. I know, you know, I heard someone someone tip we have you know, you get your movie and you're in promoting it, and so you get these sort of press breaks, right, So I was kind of tipped off to how you felt about the movie a few months ago whenever you saw it. I'm not sure. It was kind of in the middle of the sort of November December and the awards kind of push, and it meant it meant a lot to me.

I mean, I have so many Um, it's such a hard thing to move on from for a lot of reasons, you know, And I don't. I don't. I just you know, I'm sort of feeling like, Okay, I guess I never will, you know. I guess there's sort of always going to be a sort of an emotional, kind of you know,

complicated relationship with this movie. But it did mean a lot, and not in some kind of the praise or the kind of the vanity of oh he loved my movie, but you sometimes kind of felt like just the reality of it and making a small movie and you can't afford the billboards. You don't you're not on a streamer. No streamer even wanted us, you know, and so you

you just realize your reach is limited. And when you do that, that last if you're if you're lucky enough to get a movie into sort of that conversation and you get you're lucky enough to do these these award campaigns or whatever, you start to realize, you know, I it just it's so hard to get people to watch something, you know, if you don't, if you don't have the

sort of money and the machine behind you. So so hearing someone affected and moved by it, I felt like ment a lot and I assume it always does if you're you know, by whoever, Jane, you know, the people with the big movies this year, Power the Dog and Liquorice, pizza ands. But I would assume also if you're on Netflix and have billboards around town, there's almost an expectation

that people have an opinion of your movie. And so it's sort of kind of amazing when it's you feel you, I feel like you, you feel that it acutely penetrates someone when it's this tiny thing, you know. Yeah, anyway, No, No, I'm I mean, I'm actually glad to hear. I'm going to say, just in case people aren't aware if anyone skips the intro. The film we were talking about is the film Mass, which a friend wrote and directed, which I want to ask him everything about. But I think

a friend of mine or a friend of Jason. At some point i'd heard. All i'd heard was Mass is very good. I'd heard it months before it came out. I just said Mass is good. To know anything about it, and my dream version is never knowing anything. But didn't see a trailer, didn't read up on it. All I knew was someone somewhere had said mass is good. And I was in America and it was on and there was like one screening of it at a certain time when I was like, I'm just going to fucking go,

and I went. It was just like the perfect screening, you know. It was just I went in knowing nothing and it just blew my fucking mind, and it and it what it is. Again, I think it's great to see if you don't know anything bad. I'm not going to spoil it, but I will say what in terms of like the practicality of it is most of the film the film is four people around the table talking. And when I say that, on paper, you might think it's like a play on film, but it is fucking cinema.

That's the thing. The two things that I think are amazing about it, aside from everything, is that you manage to film it and direct it in a way that feels completely cinematic and intense. And it isn't a play. It's not this, It wouldn't be the same on stage. It's the way you're using the camera, in the way you're in You're so in it with the four of them, and the way just all of their tiny, these tiny micro reactions between each other, stuff that you're picking up

and how we get lost in it. But it's also the fact that, again not saying what it's about, but on paper it's a very depressing, sad story. And again I think if you were to tell someone O, this is what it's about, they might go, oh, I don't want to watch that. That That sounds really heavy and upsetting.

But what I love about it is a type of film that always upsets me is where it's a film about a big issue and it's depressing, and it feels like at the end of the film, the messages while everything's fucked and there's nothing we could do in the world's orful right. And your film took a very increiry heavy, difficult subject and without selling anything out and without cheating, actually it has a positive message that is realistic, that

is actually attempting. It doesn't answer all the questions, doesn't say well, here's the solution, but it sort of heads towards something rather than leaving you hopeless. It actually is genuinely profound in a positive way about a really difficult thing,

and it left me hopeful and moved. And it's fucking incredible. Man. Yeah, I mean, I know I look, I mean it, I couldn't ask for or conceive of a better sort of reaction to the movie because I feel like you've you've sort of said everything I could have, you know what I mean, hope for in an audience response there and and you know, to me, and sometimes I feel a little delusional because I I do think it's hopeful. I do. I think it's about healing and forgiveness and reconciliation and

the possibility of it all. And the writing process or the whole conception of the film was desperately wanting to believe in all that stuff. And you know, we without getting into specifics, if you know it's good, I'm of course, the ideal way to watch it is just to sort of watch it and not know anything. But you know, I was, um, my daughter was just about one and a half. I guess a little a little over one. I guess I'm spoiling it. But when the partment, okay, yeah,

I would love to talk about it. So yeah, yeah, yeah. And at this point, if you've not seen Mass, I hope I've convince you to watch Mass. Watch Mass. They come back great, right, and uh yeah, So, I mean, I guess you know this, this gets personal, but this is good. But it's um. You know, as soon as my daughter was born, like as sooner as I held her, I knew, like, oh I'm fucked, like the game over. You know. If anything ever happens to this thing, I'm done.

You'll never see me again, you know what I mean, Like like I that's that's how intense it felt. And obviously it's all joy um, but there and maybe it says something about who I am, and you know I need to like sort of you know, talk to someone or lighting up or like, you know, why is my head in this place? But this isn't some constant fear I walk around with, like if my daughter, I lose my daughter, But it's just it's there, you know, as soon as she's there. It's also this you could you know,

we all die, you know. And the first year of having a kid is crazy. I think at a certain point, you know, things kind of slowed down to a point where you feel like you get stages of their life in a sense. But I in that first year it's insane, you know, and I think I was. There was a ton of vulnerability and emotion and you know, joy, but this sort of this, this this under underneath it, all this kind of knowledge of just man, I got so much invested in this this person. Now your priorities shift,

they're they're more important than you. And so that when the Parkland shooting happened, that the timing of it all. I literally I was listening to a parent on the radio, and I don't think that I can't remember. I don't

think the parent lost their child. I don't know why they'd be sort of speaking on the to the news so quickly, But it was just a general heartbreak, outrage, frustration, shock, confused, all those emotions we experienced to such a smaller degree, you know, watching it on the news and hearing this person so directly affected by it, I had to pull over. I was driving in LA and like literally started crying in my car. I was like, what the fuck is

happening to me? And sort of observing that and feeling like, okay, what's what that was? That was a strange reaction, What's going on there? And then just kind of thinking, hey, you know, my entire sort of adult life, like in

high school I was a senior. I was the age of the you know, the at least the shooters at Columbine, and it's sort of been this cloud over us here for you know, obviously, shootings happen in schools long before, but there's been this sort of period of them, this kind of era that I think we all sort of we kind of go back to Columbine in some way. So that was kind of it. I was like, you know what, I want to sort of go back to the beginning in my frame of reference and learn about this.

And so there was no movie in mind. You know, I've always dreamed of directing, but you know, my the movies I love or the ideas I've had, you know, my sort of dream director resume is full of sort of big sci fi and action and like fantasy, you know I like, I like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and you know, so this the idea of

doing this, um, this just took me over. And when I came across these meetings I thought about In college, I did this production of Missigone where we it was this strange adaptation where it was like twenty years and the child has grown up and is a strange from the father he had, the child of the Vietnamese woman and the American gi is now older. The Vietnamese woman has died, and he's living with his stepmother and father

and he's sort of their relationship is broken up. And so the musical adaptation was bringing all these people together

to relive it. And the directors showed us this documentary from Sundance called Long Night's Journey in Today like a reverse on the Eugene O'Neal title, and it he was covered the South Africa Truth and Reconciliation Commission post Apartheid, and it covered these four amnesty hearings where it brought victims, family members of victims in front of perpetrators and even their own families to try and work through what happened and speak to each other and sort of find forgiveness.

In a case where a perpetrator showed true remorse, if the family forgave them, the government would grant them amnesty because they felt we cannot survive as a country if we just incarcerat everybody and keep looking back with resentment over all the crimes of apartheid. And it was just so powerful. And when I was reading about these meetings, you know, some twenty years later, I immediately thought of that, and I thought that you know, that's it. I've always

been there was always something there. I remember and later in my life, like in my late twenties, contacting that director of Miss Saigon, that buddy of mine from college, being like, hey, we got to do that again, Like let's find an off Broadway space and do that show. And he was kind of like, ah, sort of over it. You know, there was something, there was a thing in me, there was like I gotta do I gotta I want to do more with that. And so that's that was

kind of it. And then it was sort of a rabbit hole and of sort of an intense sort of focus and passion for the last I mean, it's still there. That's the thing. It's hard to sort of move on from. I've had a lot of really emotional experiences and conversations because of the film. Obviously you can imagine. I've gotten talk to some parents. It's there's there's good and bad reactions. There's you know, in some ways because it's not so heavily anti gun, you know, and there's I've I've noticed

gun violence prevention groups. It sort of doesn't feel on brand. There's a sense of sort of like, well, what do we do with this, and you know, to me, it's sort of it's it's about coming together and speaking, you know, and the ability to sort of listen and work through

something and find a way forward. And in that sense it sort of seems to be you know, I wanted to feel even more universal than the specific sort of plot or the circumstances of the meeting and more about you know, healing or bridging division in general, you know what I mean. I mean, unless you wanted to talk about that, like when you were before you write the film where you meeting with parents of victims, and did you said, you know, it's a regret. It's most of

it was reading. I did meet I did meet with some what I met with some women who work for Michelle Carter, who's an actor in the movie. She plays a sort of the mediator lawyer or character. She was a volunteer at both Mom's Demand Action in every Town, and so she introduced me to some women who had lost loved ones and I spoke with them. I've spoken

with some people who just had lost family members. I don't want to say in general, but there was someone in a car accident, there was some you know, speaking to people and kind of just listening to how people sorry I got the little chime going on, but listening to how people going to cry keep keep their loved ones, you know what I mean, Like how they keep them you know what I mean, because they're gone, and like how do you sort of keep it alive and like

keep that? How does it? How does it? How do you turn it into something? And it's hard to say positive, but that gets easier, you know, because this idea that maybe grief never really goes away, you just live with it more easily, you know, or you transform it into something not so painful. And hearing people say we just

wanted to tell stories. I had coffee with this woman who talked about losing her brother and saying, you know, we just want to tell people's stories, and that that there's there's a moment in the film, but it's just very explicitly a story, and it was it really felt like, you know, it was an idea that like, of course these people are going to share stories, so it was sort of in the writing, but to hear someone say that with such like sort of purpose or clarity to it,

like said like, oh, this needs to be a thing and this might be a structural component to this conversation that really moves it to a cathartic place, you know, like really kind of making it, you know, a key point. Um. But no, I think you know, I've had I've spoken with family members now and it's directly involved with shootings.

I had an incredibly emotional conversation with a mother from a mother of a Sandy Hook student with an daud and we were just in weeping, you know, we were kind of a mess, and she was this sort of you know, picture of grace and composure compared to us. It was you know, in and but she had said and uh, and maybe this is in the interview and if it's not, God, forgive me, because I you know, I wouldn't want to say something she didn't say on camera.

But there Look, there was a notion of like not not not everyone will be an advocate of this film, because if you're you can't tell people to forgive if they don't want to. And I and I don't think the movie's really saying that there's without giving stuff away like a you know, not everybody sort of gets the same not everyone gets, Uh, Forgiveness doesn't work for everyone the same way. Right in terms of parties, you know,

there can be almost a transactional element. I get it off my chest, but like, does it really relieve someone of guilt and shame? And you know, how does it work? And I do there's a look I've I've experienced that already, the sort of the hurt of this isn't your story to tell. You haven't lived it, and you can't tell other people's, you know, And you know, I think it's sort of it's so it's a regret that I didn't find, you know, do a better job or work harder at

finding these people. But I also I didn't know where to sort of stop, you know what I mean, because it sort of felt like, well, hey, I'm not gonna I'm probably never gonna get in touch with without saying names. But parents of shooters, like I know, there's one woman who's very outspoken and she's on you know, TV and Ted Talks, and that's her life now, is speaking about this,

her role as a mother of a shooter. But you know most of them are almost in hiding, right, you know, so so the idea of and I'm trying to say, these are four victims, right, these are four they've all lost loved ones here, right, and then we're trying to give some equality to the conversation and any dignity to

all of these people. In order to sort of get somewhere, you know, be productive here, we have to sort of accept each other's humanity and but shared suffering, not just sort of I'm the victim here and I blame you, but sort of get some equalizing sort of field to be on. And so it always felt to me like it, well, it's not just you know, talking to the victims is sort of I should also talk to the mothers of

the parents of the shooter. And I didn't know sort of where to stop, and so I didn't know where to begin and I and I think there was a part of me that just um kind of left it at that, you know, and sort of felt like, well,

I'm telling a fictional story. I've researched this, I've got all these sources I can that's it, and um, you know, I think I'll probably have to sort of answer for that to some degree of you know, I think there's probably they'll probably be hard feelings around that, or complicated feelings around that. As the Sandy Hook parents suggested even though she was you know, she's like I watched the movie twice. I you know, I forgive this person. I forgave this person, and I you know, she spoke of

the importance in her life at least of forgiveness. You know. The writing I think is listen if you could add there more of metality over it. But the writing, I think it's amazing, particularly because again because it's fictionally go there's a much easier version of this where all the characters, where all the characters are lovely and sympathetic and you feel sorry for them, which you do accept. I think

what's so brilliant, particularly the parents of the killer. They're so complicated, particularly and out in the first twenty minutes of the film, you're you're like really uncomfortable. She's really uncomfortable, and she makes you she's she's there's everyone is so three dimensionally like she's awkward and there's like something almost pathetically needy about her, and it's you're sort of almost

repelled by her. In the first twenty minutes, you totally get why Martha Plibton is sort of like fuck you, Like you can see this sort of desperate it's so well written and incredibly active by everyone, but like such complicated characters. And as much as it is full of love and forgiveness, this film, and it's also there's no it feels to me as you know, someone outside of this, but you don't also don't let anyone off the hook.

The final sort of speech to it and Dad has where she comes back to tell that story is is fucking devastating. It's so like Jesus Christ, and yeah, you know what I mean, it isn't there there's no like, okay, well that that yeah, neatly, neatly explains all of these things. And I don't know, it's just I think as an act of imaginative empathy, it's an extraordinary piece of work. Yeah, thank you. I mean, I look, the movie lives and dies on the performances because it is it is like

nine in that room at a table. And you know, I never, I mean I really got. I just was. I was lucky and I knew it. We had a little three day rehearsal in New York about three weeks before we went to Idaho where we shot in Sun Valley and Hailey, Idaho, and I knew, you know, we kind of The rehearsal was basically table work like you would for a play. We sat around the table. But

that's how the movie is. So. Cinematographer Ryan Jackson Healy was there with our lenses and you know, did a little camera test and we watched it and I thought it that we have it. I know it. It's going

to work. These actors are incredible. But the other thing, and it wasn't necessarily improv but and this went back to any kind of read through I had with other actors, because I did a couple of read throughs sort of written the writing process, but sort of really you know, peppering actors with questions of like where where did you feel you were kind of just having to say the line, you know, or like phone it in, and like where was it false? And what can I do to fix that?

So to keep that and not illusion for lack of a better word, of reality, you know, and that you just you feel like this is this is real conversation. It just feels like real people talking and sort of paying attention to where it felt literary or written, you know, and also when an actor had an impulse to hear it and put it in there, you know, and really be flexible with the writing, and like, I give this

example all up. But Jason Isaacs in that rehearsal, he's listening to read Bernie and Dawd tell the story of the shooting from their perspective the day of the shooting, and he and and it was originally it was like line line, you know, a speech, speech speech kind of and Jason looked at me and was like, why am I listening to this? I don't want to listen this. I don't care about these there's sob story. And it was an honest sort of thing, and so that that's

in the movie. You know, it's sort of all of a sudden, it's sort of he he quite literally says that. I think I think he's like, I don't want to listen to this. I don't know, and you know, just just being open to that and putting it in there, I think he gave that that dialogue in the field of that scene a sort of a realism that that that you know, I can't I probably like don't get credit for in terms of my initial sort of writing, like I needed actors and I needed actors to have

their instincts even though I am an actor. It was hard for me to sort of, you know, see it all. I was too close or whatever, you know, but yeah, yeah, well yeah, and on the less stading, less intense side.

But it's interesting and I understand it. And if people listening don't understand the industry and I did not, is what's sad about the reality of these things is I saw that film and I was like, oh, I mean, I remember being like, well, that's the film that will win all the Oscars in every single category there is, including special effects, because it's so fucking good. But I know, I know that the reality is it's about money. It's about how much money do you have to promote this thing?

And if you don't have a lot of managing to write this thing, then not loads of people will see it. And it doesn't matter how brilliant and amazing the film is. If people don't know the film exists, then it won't get the attention it deserves. And that is m Yeah, it's it's tough, you know. I mean, look, I I no one. I couldn't. I could barely get people to

read the script. You know. It was hard enough to get a friend to read it, let alone get this thing made by a first time you know, director, sort of relatively unknown actor, like it was not it was sort of working against me. And also those who did read it were like, this is not this has no sort of market commercial value, you know. It's like I mean, I was constantly told you can't, you just can't do this,

like you got to break it up. And I would say, hey, my dinner with Andre or twelve angry men, like no, I want to stay in the room. That's a whole point of the movies. We have to stay in and it has to be real time. You have to sort of suffer through these absurdities of kind of pushing through things and kind of placing pain right next to ordinary life is real, it's it's it's our experience of our lives is sort of extraordinary, sort of you know, sprinkled

in between the more ordinary. And I wanted to kind of feel that by having it so linear, I guess, and I find someone told me if you have a dollar, you're partially financed, as you know, giving me advice, and so I just created a you know, an LLC. I put thirty thousand dollars into it and started telling people we were financed you know, and and kind of bluffed my way into it, and you know, it was not it was a hard sell at Sundance. It's been it's just been that way and a sort of a struggle.

And even you know at my kids school, you know, that have their parents that are like, I'm so sorry, I just can't watch your movie, Like I just kind not in the headspace for it. And there's a lot of hey, people are having a hard time in the pandemic. No one wants to sit through this, no one's you know, and so it's just sort of the reality of it.

But yeah, you do. I'm not gonna lie. There was a moment where our expectations or our hopes at least got high, you know, and we were in that conversation and so to sort of I mean, look, we got incredible We had incredible success. Also when you think of like I just sort of did this on my own and put my own money into it, and where that all sort of came, how it came together. But no,

you know, I'm not gonna lie. You know, it was like Oscar announcement morning was a gut punch, you know, and you sort of think like, oh, you sort of have to sort of play this kind of mental game or gymnastics of sort of minding yourself of the journey and that and that this is this is the same thing.

And then it's just the emotion of it. Like I've been in rooms and conversations with people crying and sharing really personal stories, and you know, this thing was sort of made with a seriousness and vulnerability that you know, I kind of have to sort of like live with and be accountable for, you know, and sort of and that's good. That's a good thing. I want to do that.

I want like art to be serious and cathartic and complicated, and so it's it's good, but it's certainly I'm starting to realize, hey, this is not this is just not something like as an actor, you walk away from things much more easily, you know, and this is just something that sort of I'm sure will sort of I will have a relationship most of my life, you know, all

of my life. Anyway, you're going to follow it up with the you know, I'm trying to write something and I say it's a sequel to Mass It's just one hundred years later. And so I do have the I have a sequel plan. But yeah, no, I I tried to get that guy, Zack Jacobson. Sorry, I'm just gonna throw you under the bus. He It was. It was, honestly, it was like one of the best things I've ever been in. It was such an incredible adaptation and just just cool ideas to sort of sustain that, you know, conceit.

It was really well done. No, Frank, Yeah, this is awful. I've forgotten to tell you something I should have. We've been talking that probably half an hour about your amazing film, and I forgot to tell you before that. I probably should have said at the beginning, actually, well fuck it, I just say you've died. Funny I would laugh in it. You're dead? Yeah, shape, yeah, how did you die? God? I um, you know, I turned forty recently, and I was fine with that. I was. It was pretty especially

because of COVID birthday. It was just like nothing happened. And but but I had a weird couple moments of like, shit, I'm gonna die soon, you know, and and mass took so damn long to make. I keep thinking like, man, you only have if you're lucky, like six films left, you know, like you gotta you're not gonna you know, there was a there was an anxiety of time, but

I don't know. It's funny, like my mom has been texting me a lot recently about like so and so died of cancer, like have you have you had your check up? Like go see you know the doctor, and like, you know, and I just was at the dermatologist. I have sensive you know, I get like I had some things. I'm going to get some little moles cut off my back and my like sensitive skin, and that's like a concern. So I just sort of assume and it's sort of I don't want to say common or it is common cancer.

It's all. I don't know, this is awful. There's something it's not. It's not very unique, right, It's sort of like that's kind of like, well, yeah, you know a lot of people die of cancer, and so I think there's a kind of insult to injury way of like if it's it feels like it's going to be cancer where you're just sort of not um you know. Also, I noticed that William Hurt died recently, do you know, do you know? And I worked with him. He was he's awesome. I had the greatest time with that guy.

I loved him on the village and I'm pretty sure and maybe it changed. But the initial article I read, uh was he died of natural causes, but he was seventy one, and I kind of thought, is that? Is that a little young? But can you say that? Is that? What is natural? Do you know what I mean? Like? Are we supposed to? Are those should be in near eighties or niceties? You know? Yeah? Yeah, no, right, I think it's sort of if it's eat or eaten by a bear, but it's that's natural? That is that? You know?

That wash um like the who's yeah? I but no, I can I can sort of sadly see that, like, okay, fran he died of natural causes, it's sixty four, you know. Something kind of just just annoying and sort of leaves me a bitter taste in my mouth. So do you I mean we've talked a lot about it, really, but I normally asked, do you worry about death? I guess do you worry about your own death? I don't think

so clearly. I've worried about my child's or fixated and on it and in order or not in order to but an in and around this film, which is terrible. I don't even want to put that out into the world. But you know, I don't know, like I had, look, the panic of I'm going to die soon didn't necessarily feel like my death. It was the death that bothered me so much. Is that? How am I going to use my time? Do you know? Um? I need to shit, I gotta get to work. Kind of that kind of feeling.

Um So I don't, I don't know, and um, you know, I'm I'm I've sort of alluded to this, this kind of sci fi idea, you know, mass one hundred years from now, and uh so I listened to this is the second best podcast, right, This is the number two to you, right, the Lex Friedman podcast. And he's this mint professor and he he gets just a lot of his colleagues and these really brilliant people and I don't understand.

I wouldn't know half of what they're talking about. But he has a wonderful way of asking questions and making it accessible. It's not like dumbed down. It just feels something like something with him you can grasp. There are are sort of you know, like us, who aren't you know, geniuses and uh, you know, the sort of complexity of the universe and ideas about like the theory of everything

and what it all means. And this this one guy, Stephen Wolfram, he wrote this book a New kind of Science, and this guy's just really out there and a genius.

But he's talking about the universes. So we have like physicals, we have our own physical space, and then there's sort of branchial space like quantum space, and the idea of there's every possible version of this existence happening simultaneously, and we just have this kind of slice in our sort of perspective and the mechanisms of our representation mechanisms limited us to this this thing, but it's all happening around us.

And then on top of that, the universe being he calls it the rule AD and this it's like, sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here, but the rule AD being all possible rules happening at once and the universe. And so you're like, well, who started the rule ad?

Where's the rule AAD come from? But within those rules is that is that that's a rule within the all possible rules contains the rules of somehow starting this universe and that it's this kind of complete set and that's sort of like, look, I don't know if that's fine.

I don't know who. It's just this guy, you know, it kind of it kind of had there was something beautiful about it, and this just interconnectedness sort of there is sort of a self contained, solid running program that when I die, it's not I'm not going into some you know, you know, just it's not I'm not turned off.

I'm just sort of in this thing. And the notion of like and as it just feels even less like a reincarnation but just sort of like, you know, as soon as you die you might just be right back on again and have no idea who fran was? You know what I mean? Um and and and I guess that's sort of is reincarn But but this idea of the solidness, the sort of the oneness of it, I thought was kind of is kind of beautiful and reassuring, even though it's really out there, you know, and really

hard to sort of comprehend. I guess you know, I like that. Well, it's it's interesting, but there I'm afraid, I mean, good news in bad When you're shut off, there is a heaven. There's a middle bit, there's a head. You got to visit that before you immediately switch back on it and you yeah, and in this heaven, everyone's very excited to see. It's filled with your favorite thing. What's your favorite thing? Oh man, that's so cheat. I would just say my kid right now, what's my favorite thing? Okay,

we'll heaven Italian food? Okay, heaven is filled with your kid. But your kid has been claimed. There's like a minute everywhere everybody lick there's your kid jumping around, excited to see you, slightly frightening in a way, and they've all got pasta dishes for you, and you're like Jesus Christ. But everyone everyone's excited to see you. All a million of your of your doing. But everyone wants to They want to talk to you about your life through film.

And the first thing they want to know is what is the first film you remember seeing? Fran krad ah Man, I you know, I can't, I don't know. I remember like being obsessed with Disney's Halloween Special, Disney's Halloween Treat. What it wasn't you know that's not a movie necessarily, but you know we have these we still do our

families kept them just because they're they're funny. But these beta beta tapes, you know, before BHS there was beta and so we have, you know, but one of them is Star Wars, And like, I can't be sure what was first, but that that feels at the beginning, like it feels like my whole relationship with film sort of and the love and the sort of the the experience of it all and the magic of it it all sort of starts with Star Wars. So I'd have to

go with that. I know that's probably a generic no either. Listen, I love the Star Wars was your first in kneed them made mass It's beautiful. Did you see see what's that on your Betomax? Yeah? So I was born eighty one, so Star Wars had come out, but I would I would have watched on that, I don't think, Yeah, because Jedi was eighty three, so I probably wasn't making it to the theater. I know my brother saw jedis jedis just the two of you, just the two of us? Yeah? Yeah,

how much older is he? He's two years older. He's two years older, yes, yeah, and and he knows like he can kind of remember Star Wars. I gather he was taken to ET, but must have been a baby. I forget what ET was. I'm not sure what was the point of taking him to that if he was just like some you know, infant. Yeah, yeah, speaking of traumatize, No, but I and look, I could, well you will talk about scary movies, I'm sure, but like my parents, I

don't want to like get them in trouble here. But and I get it, like you don't know what you're doing. For the most part, it feels like it's very hard. But they definitely it showed me some inappropriate films for sure, you know. I mean we I watched Twin Peaks as it aired, and I must have been nine years old, and I think, yeah, you know, and it's scared the shit.

It's traumatized me. Like it's it's like I can't. I can't, you know, if I'm out in the woods alone at night and an owl hoots them done, It's like I can't deal. Bob got so into the you know inside of me. I got um, you know, I was coming into my parents room at night. But the show is so damn good that we we said, I watched the whole thing like we would watch it together as a family.

Despite the fact that they knew I'm gonna I'm having nightmares, we were still watching it, and I remember we kind of got into a zone of like, Okay, leave the room or cover your eyes. You know that you could tell by the music, like I think you might want to go. But then sometimes it's like Leland looks in the mirror and there's Bob and fuck, we didn't see that coming. So anyway, So but yeah, Fire Walk with Me, which was like, you know, came out right after our

family was so into Twin Peaks. You know, we had to see it. But that was like, you know, that shit really got got me, got me back you, I mean you. All I can tell you is the listeners will know this. You'll you basically just described my childhood and oh really right, twas Twin Peaks, I think made my brain the way it is. I watched it too

young and watched it live, never never slept again. Still scared. Yeah, okay, great, No, we had to say, I mean, are we I feel like we're probably close in age, so I said, we had the same problem of seeing this as children. Yeah, and if and I probably the scariest. I think so. I mean, I think so my question scary. I think it.

I think it has to be because it's sort of scarier than the show, sort of pound for pound, right, because the show is a lot of soap opera, and and you know, I've gone back and rewatch the show a lot, and I like the return even though it's just bizarre. But I you know, you kind of want to move through the show be like these people don't matter, you know. But Firewalk with Me is like, no, it's

just a devastating scary movie start to finish. And uh but you know, I know, like like I definitely like, no, it's definitely that would be my one. But you know, I want to make a scary movie one day. I know, like Jaws gets Like I I go into a swimming pool and just there's a there's always like this tiny feeling there's a shark in the pool, like you know, totally irrational because of that movie. But I remember that movie Open Water, which is I think kind of a

silly movie. Like I don't know if we all think that's some great thing. It's like the found footage the couple's left behind, they're just stuck in the water and

eventually eating by sharks. I had to leave like I had, Like I sort of I was like like a little kid, like I remember Large Marge and Peewee whatever the Peewee one is, the Peewee's Big Adventure maybe, Like as a kid, I remember being made fun of by my brother and my cousins because right before Large Marge I had, I had already been traumatized by her in the in whatever.

I think it's pee Wee's great, but I would be like, I gotta, oh, I gotta go to the bathroom, you know, like right, you know, and they're all like, this is so transparent, what's happening? But that that I, as an adult, like I think I did that in that Open Water movie. I was just so deeply upset by it that I was like, I got I'm just gonna I get a pee, you know, just goldnat and I don't know if I came back anyway. Yeah, but there you go, firewalk with me. Amazing,

Oh my god, righteous, that's so great. We couldn't talk about Twin Peaks for hours. I'm sure. Yeah, I listen. I never I never, I never make anyone do this. But I'm gonna make you do this. A few weeks ago, I had mock frust on the podcast You've got to listen. He was magic, and you know the thing of like, never meet your heroes, I say, meet your heroes. He was so wonderful. It's I mean, it's an hour and a half of me basically watched you go I love you,

but it's so great. He's so great, and he's so sort of wise and lovely and funny and sweet and deep, and he was everything you'd want. You said, this just happened too, This was last week, you said, No, this is like, I don't know, a month ago, six weeks ago, a month ago, okay, because I feel I was just looking at your listening to some interviews, and then I obviously missed that. But okay, yeah, I will, I'll. My brother and I are going to have to watch that.

I mean, we're both you know, we were both traumatized, and so we both kind of have this relationship, intense relationship with you. Yeah, I mean me and my sister didn't. I mean I told him this and then it is true, is that I was supposed to me and my sister chard a room, and so I guess I was like eight or nine, and I was meant to move into

my own room. And the night I was meant to move into my own room as the night we watched the first I've said it Twin Peaks, and I moved my mattress onto the floor next to I stayed there until I was I think, Yeah, it was so scary. Yeah, oh my god, it was so scary. Yeah, I don't know. God, it's so I'll have to sit down with my parents and sort of be like, what were you? What we all thinking? You know? Also the magic of the magic of what David Lynch does in that he makes a

fan terrifying just an image, yeah, a ceiling fan. Yeah, yes, yeah, like a potent of horrendous fear. It's such a like amazing and just a you know, there's I mean, Bob comes into that living room at one point you you'll see. But and so I don't know if it's like Chicken or the Egg, like, are just simple bedrooms and living rooms terrifying just because of how he frames it or it has is Bob sort of established And I don't think so that the fan and Laura Palmer or the

mother forget her name, coming down the staircase. You know, that's not that's not conspicuous, fear and evil and spiritual, you know, supernatural, you know, that's just yeah, it is. It's very very strange. I mean, he and I think in fire Walk with Me there are just sort of very basic sort of shots and so I guess it's the art direction and he's kind of a master of sound. We know that, but like, man, it's it's you're absolutely right. What he can sort of what seems to be ordinary

is so terrifying with him behind the camera. Was the film that made you cry? The most cheesy answer, but a mass you know, just I mean I cried for years in front of a laptop, cried editing it, cry watching it. You know, technically I have to say that one. Um. I mean, I mean I remember as like this is so cheesy, but Goose Deyne and top Gun was. I don't know if I cried in a movie yet, you

know what I mean. So I feel like there was a sort of kind of a pivotal or seminal sort of a moment in my life as in childhood and being affected by a movie like that, you know, and like I know that's sort of this sort of you know, cheesy, famous blockbuster, you know, but I think a lot of like kids, young boys were affected by that and it was sort of in a kind of a little loss

of innocence. Like I'm not sure, Like I think that movie was eighty six, and I feel like I probably saw it like shortly after it came out on video and was devastated by this. You know, this guy dying twice. He's done that twice, He's done that at the Edwards.

I mean, yeah, that's really great. Yeah, I um yeah, no, Okay, so there's another there's a movie because I can't This came up recently and I thought, you're crying, like immediately, and I don't even know how it works, because I'm kind of there's a movie I want to do based on this book. This I'm just gonna say it. Put it out into the universe. This Richard Richard Powers, who wrote The Overstore. He has a new book called Bewilderment, and I really want to direct it. And uh, I

was thinking. I was thinking, because there's a relationship with a father and a child. There's this movie called Color of Paradise Um sort of a sort of a saccharin title. But um, this is uh and I don't want to put your the name, but Majid Majidi and as Iranian film and it's um. This this boy who's blind and his relationship with his father, and it is it. I was crying, like immediately, and I don't even know how

it was possible, do you know what I mean? Like I didn't understand some sort of alchemy of sort of sound and visual, you know, color and sound and this boy and the look of his father like nothing has happened. He's just picking him up from school or his you know that this sort of special school for the children blind children. You're just done so quickly, and then not to mention the movie itself, which is which is um tough,

I mean really really really tough. And I love that about the film and that it doesn't it's despite that title. It's just a terribly honest and difficult relationship. It's a hard you know, and raising this child and the sort of the frustration of the kid and the sort of frustration of the father, but the love, the sort of the intensity and sort of you know, the real love of the relationship. It's just a really an incredible kind of movie, and it kind of has you crying throughout it.

I mean that's one that really comes to mind, but particularly just how quickly you're locked in, like they somehow get you in the in the palm of his hand almost immediately. You know, that's great. What is the film? People don't like it, it's not critically acclaimed, but you love it. You don't care. I mean, I'm a Kids in the Hall fan, you know, But I remember when

when Brain Candy came out. I don't have you've ever seen it, but like even all my friends, we all went and saw it in the theater and we all like kids in the Hall, but we were like thirty minutes into that movie thinking like this is guard, this is ridiculous, like this is and then I don't know what it was. There's some point I forget the guy's name. He was like a running joke and I think he's just in a towel. He's like it was like one of their production team guys. And he's not like a

one of the cast members. It was some other dude and they have a name for him. And he's in like a just a bath towel, and he was in a giant bowl of cereal, and it was just in a kind of music montage in the middle of this ridiculous movie, and I remember it was like the absurdity just got too much for us, and we like were

falling out of our seats laughing. You know, we thought like at that point and so now I think of kids in the hall brain Candies like one of the great movies ever made, like one of the funniest movies. You know, it's like top up there. So I don't know, I don't know if that's fair as like a bad a bad movie that I love without any kind of shame because maybe it's maybe it's also amazing. But there was certainly like, look, it's not going to be for everyone.

I looked a lot of like cheesy action movies as a kid, you know, I remember like war movies, and I'd go to the video store and look, you know, bad horror films. I'd go look at the back of the box and find just what looked kind of gory. And I love all the Friday the thirteenth, even the

bad ones like Jason Takes Manhattan. Like in college, we would just kind of go on marathons of watching those and there's like a really silly I mean, I feel bad saying this because you know, movies are hard to make, you know, and like I don't want to offend anyone. But this movie Hamburger Hill, which is like a Vietnam movie. Do you remember that? Yeah? Yeah, the video? Sure, I

don't think I saw it. Yeah, and it's I'm pretty sure it's I'm pretty sure it's just bad, you know, And like, but like really into that as a kid, and because it was so violent at whatever age I was, I thought it was powerful, right, And I think in reality it was sort of just such a sort of run of the mill kind of war action movie that kind of had like nothing to say, you know what

I mean? You know, I don't know. Yeah, what about what's a film that you used to love, loved it very much, but you watched it recently and you've gone, oh, I don't like this anymore for whatever. Well, I do like a lot with my kid, right, So we're going all my favorites. I mean, you know one that I loved that I was like, no way, this movie is still great was Fly to the Navigator. Do you remember that one? I was kind of like, no, man, this

is like emotional. There's some great music, like yes, it's very cheesy, there's very eighties or whatever, you know, I you know, but like no, I was like, yeah, this is good. Um, and then but no one that was hilariously like bad and offense. I mean I again, like I feel bad. You know these are you know, especially this one's like considered I think it's considered a classic.

But anyway, the Swiss Family Robinson, you know, we went to Disneyland, and I grew up with Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse, and now it's Tarzan's Treehouse, you know, And I couldn't help but wonder, like why is it Tarzan? And like, sure, you know, Tarzan's a more recent kind of big animated hit, and maybe it's sort of like a better cell than you know, Swiss Family Robinson's old. But um, I apparently

you know Disney World, it's still Swiss Family Robinson. And I don't know why, you know, maybe that's like a Florida thing. Um. Anyway, I remember loving it. I should we put it on and I was watching with my brother and my daughter, and this is something I remember loving as a kid. And it has this disclaimer at the top. You know saying this, you know, we have there's some offensive portrayal of people in this movie that's you know, it's that kind of right. And and I thought, okay,

you know, you know where this is going. And it's sort of the indigenous people portrayed and this totally sort of whatever stereotype racist kind of fashion. But like and again and like it's it also could be applied to the white people, like they are so so stupid and so ridiculous that it's sort of like, well, who are

they sort of really apologizing about? Here? Them the Swiss family, like they like I don't even know where to be, Like they're when they're they're they're shipwrecked and the fathers trying to like save their lives and the rest of the family's trying to like save all the animals on board, and he's like, no, we gotta we gotta get to shore, like we don't have time. So it's sort of like and you get it. It's like, oh, it's sweet like

the animals, but they're they're idiotic, you know. And then but then they get to shore and it's like within a day, the father's gone native and it's like we could stay here forever. You know, it's just like what the hell, you know this guy's that happen? And then like the yeah, and then the I guess it's not very clear, but like even in the description it says

it's like the Napoleonic Wars and they're fleeing. They're sort of like refugees, so you get the sense, but you're like, wait a minute, is it like Switzerland, like you know, just like famously neutral and great, you know, just like a great place to live, and they seem pretty wealthy, so it's like why are you why are you doing? Like what why are you fleeing your country? Like what's going on? And then the kids, the boys are all just like such kind of like male energy and like

blowhard haard On types, you know, the ridiculous. And then anyway, my point is the young kid who I remember loving as a child and like relating to because his name is Francis, and he's like a psychopath. He's like a dangerous, violent child. And at the end of the movie something, some people get rescued and leave, but like the parents stay with Francis, and you're kind of like they have to stay there with like Francis is a danger to society.

But I remember being in the backyard playing like fighting imaginary pirates, like as Francis, and even seeing my daughter immediately be taken by Francis and like doing that same that same energy of like fighting the pirates as Francis, you know, and you're like, no, that Francis is really a troubled kid, you know, like, oh, this crazy, terrible role model. So anyway, I that movie, just like Beat for Beat was like super questionable. What is the film

that means the mice to you? Not necessarily the film itself is any good, but because the experience you had around seeing it, that will always make it special to you. Mister frankrantz ah Man, I mean like I feel like there's so I mean, I feel like my life has sort of in film, and so I have so or want I want it to be. And I feel like I have so many movies that are meaningful to me.

I mean I do kind of remember, you know, when Reservoir Dogs came out for whatever reason, the sort of story of Tarantino and like he was just this kid and worked in a video store and he just like he just liked movies so much that that easy that

he was good at making them. You know, there was something, there was something kind of um, I don't know, sort of simplistic and almost sort of fairy tale or sort of like that or a legend kind of to his sort of start of like this is just this film geek that's just so passionate that he's good at it.

You know, like somehow that that that felt like had made it more believable that I could make movies, you know, and I I look, I don't, I don't think and I love Quentin Tarantino, don't get me wrong, Like it's not The Reservore Dogs is like so violent, Like I don't, I don't think I'd make a movie that's just like so shoot him up, you know. But it was sort of his success and it was almost like he was

anointed immediately, you know, like Reservore Dogs. It was just like, oh, he's this guy's in and he's great and will he will be for a long time. It felt that way quickly, and maybe his pulp fiction, but that was, um, I felt I can because I think I was like in eighth grade and it was so crazy. Reservo Digs is so shocking that that also was like, you know, anything goes you know, your crazy idea is okay because this is now, this is considered acceptable and commercial, you know.

And so there was something I remember something that was a sort of a breaking open. And also Tarantino, because I was such a fan. I followed what he followed, and he was kind of he did that thing like he would have he would sort of have his name on a DVD and he it was I don't know him right, but he sort of introduced me to Wong

Car Why. And that's when I saw Chung King Express because he was like, you know, he gave it an intro on the d on the tape or DVD and and that not that I'd never seen a foreign film, but that was like that was a floodgate kind of movie for me where I became obsessed with One Car Why. But sort of Asian cinema in general started getting into Korean film, and you know, uh that that sort of opened.

I feel like there was there was something a shift and a kind of new found appreciation and sort of wider kind of net to sort of what I kind of you know, was watching, and that kind of starts with him, I think, I mean, I'm hrd relate, Uh, tell me this? What is the film? Is? Weirdly the next question, what is the film that you must relate to? Oh? Wow,

speaking of one car? Why this movie twenty forty six to me feels like it sounds cheesy, but love and the experience of love, the ups and the downs, the complexity of it, falling in love, falling out of love when you sort of whatever it is, sort of come of age and you know, puberty, and sort of the romantic love as it becomes sort of pervasive in your life, the sort of the long term journey of it and sort of both heartbreak and ecstasy and eroticism like that movie,

and it's not. I know it's not for everyone, but to me, I'm like that that is sort of like some perfect visual film, cinematic poem to romantic love. And so I did get to meet Quentin Tarantino once and we got into an argument at some party because I was like, that's that's his greatest movie, twenty forty six,

and he was like, no, it's not. I think he's said in the Mood for Love, and he was like it and I forget the actress's name, the young actress um she plays the sort of it's as like his kind of love affair mistress and she comes back and the sort of not even third it feels and I know where he's going with this. It almost feels like a fourth act, like it feels almost extreme. And he was like, she should not have come back. That was just that that just got old or redundant or that

was unnecessary. And I sort of was like, no, but that's that's it. That's what love. That's Look, it's messy and weird and people come back into your life and it fails again, and there's sort of there's a really a difficult, complicated way to sort of end. The relationships are just that they won't end necessarily. So I felt like it was no, it kind of covered everything because of that sort of final sort of beat um. But

he obviously disagreed. But I don't, I don't know. I mean that look, that movie also looks nothing like my life, you know, Okay, Okay, I completely know what you mean. It's the feel of it. What, Yeah, what's the sexiest film you've ever seen? Frank Ranz? Yeah, god man, this is sort of embarrassing. But I do you remember, like you maybe I don't know if you relate to this, but like as a kid, and maybe it's like you're like, you know, going through puberty. It reminds me of like

middle school and horny teenager. Like I remember like sex scenes and sort of these big movies were like kind of a thing you're like, oh my god, I like Sharon Stone, you know, or like Desperado, like I remember the sex scene with Salmahayak and Antonio, Like I was like, oh my god, that was amazing, you know, but you know, and then maybe that was I mean, I haven't seen that movie in a long time, but it maybe it was a very sort of like hot, erotic sort of

sex scene. But some of them in retrospect were so silly, Like I remember this this movie, The special I think it's The Specialist with Sylvester Stallone, yes, exactly, and it's sort of like I don't know, I think like I was young enough to sort of be like taken by it and think like whoa, look at that um, But also you know, thinking back, like that was just ridiculous and also still Stallone as like this bodybuilder, Like the whole thing was like absurd and in some like my

memory is it's in like a red shower, like do you know what I mean? And like yeah, but okay, so yeah, but I feel like those were sort of those were things. It was like how like my you know, buddies, and I sort of became acquainted to all this, you know, and but um, I mean I saw this is not like sexy because it's basically pornography, or I mean, I guess it is in parts, but um, you know, Caligula was a was like blew me away because I was like,

oh my god. And there was a part of me because of you know, clockwork orange and loving Malcolm McDowell, because I you know, I saw some of these early on, and there's a part of me. It's like, it's a damn shame they couldn't edit Caligula into you know, sort of a better movie because we have to look at all this. But you know, when I watched it, I couldn't believe what I was seeing, the amount of sort

of sex and nudity. But there's points where it just goes, okay, well, hey come on, guys, you know you just now it's you know, um, but I don't know, I mean, I know those are that sort of growing up. I think, like, you know, again, like I in The Mood for Love twenty forty six, those are like deeply romantic movies. I'm trying to think of like a love scene that just felt sort of adult and you know, really sort of you know, erotic or romantic. And I'm struggling to think

of that. But i mean, look, those two movies, as they pair up with each other, in the Mood for Love and twenty forty six are super in my mind, you know, sensual. There is a subcategory which is troubling by his worrying, why Dones a film you found a rousing that you thought maybe you sh oh yeah, um oh god, I uh well, who are like, you know, the animated characters that were just like really attractive. Yeah, yeah, exact exactly. Oh god, I mean, what's what's her? The

Robin Robin hood Fox. I remember thinking the Robin Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So that's like sort of troubling because that's sort of that's obviously bestial or whatever, you know, So I'm not just um so yeah, but I remember like loving her, you know, in a as a in a in a way lovely though marriage she's lovely, Yeah, yeah, lovely vibe. But it's not just her looks. She's a good looking fox,

but she's also say she's got a lovely vibe. Yeah, yeah, um, and yeah, you know it's well, you know, it's funny because I I'm inundated with Disney, and I know not every girl gets this way or child, but like mine was hooked on, like she saw Mickey Minnie Mouse in particular, and it was over. It was like she's now she's just she's drank the cooledge. She's you know, joined the

colt or whatever. And so we have princess a lot of princesses, and you know, it's like who's your favorite princess, daddy, And you know, I find myself like really you know, in my head like or just like thinking about it like way differently than she's sort of you know, like her is her judgments of these Yeah. Yeah, but I'm like I like bell because she reads, and it's like yeah, and also I yeah, I'm sort of most yeah, weirdly attracted to Bella. She reads, she's really fit. Yeah, exactly,

what is objectively objectively the greatest film ever made? Yeah, I think two thousand and one? Um, right, I could watch that I've watched it so many times. I like sometimes when you think, like, you know, we've really all when we're pushing the boundaries, you know, movies these days are so excited. This is you know, what we've done and broken the rules and you know, in the history

of film. But then you're like, I don't know that was like at this point, that's like over fifty years ago and as crazy a movie as anyone will ever make, like as so in your face, like throwing the gauntlet down of like I am going to make an incredibly like I think I know what it's all about, you know, but I also a movie that is totally perplexing and sort of mysterious as well, and like I don't think you know, there's a lot of people that can barely

get through the opening of you know, let alone the ending. But I I the experience of first watching it and saying I can't I can't believe this is like I can't believe this is happening, you know, And uh, you know, you get a very you kind of get a story in there, for sure, you get all that. I mean, I think there's sort of what's my heart? Yeah, now it's not going to be very articulate, I mean, and sort of it's it's this relationship with technology, you know,

and and what is what is it? And is it? Is it really ours or is it a sort of is it a sort of force in the driving the sort of universe? Is it a sort of you know, we think there are tools, but is it just like a general sort of motion of things. Is there a kind of a intelligence so to speak that is sort of persistent and insistent and it has been from the very beginning and will sort of evolve and take on

these forms. But there's sort of this plan, there's like a cosmic intention that we are sort of part of, very much a part of very much. It's streaming through us as sort of a species. And you know kind of you know, the ape kind of figuring out the bone as a weapon, you know, like the greatest cut in history, you know, into the satellite and you know, eventually becoming the star child, you know, and this sort

of there's this uh. I mean, I think the short story, they find the thing on the moon and I think it's like a pyramid and the Arthur C. Clark and they can't figure out what the hell to do with it. Until they drop a bomb on it. I'm pretty sure they drop like an atom bomb or you know, and

then it shoots a signal off. And it's kind of this idea of contact, like the aliens waiting for us to be at a point, And there's certainly something to that, but I also I feel like it's sort of as opposed to contact, as opposed to sort of the alien movies where it's sort of like we're visited. The visitation.

It's sort of like the bridging. It's sort of like the inevitability of contact because these are sort of intelligent life, all sort of having a way of connecting itself, you know, and that you know, him becoming the sort of the star child. It's a coevolution of these sort of species that speaks to a greater sort of intelligence driving through the universe. Anyway. I don't know what they know we're talking about, but I mean, I do. I feel like I have to go with that one. I got a

lot of movies I think are are up there. I love a Gara Wrath of God, you know, Hertzog, and I think the Russian movie Come and See. I feel like, you know, there's these movies that are just to me like kind of kind of perfect. But two thousand and one, I've just feel like because of the themes, I think kind of takes the cake. I mean, so obviously Citizen Kane is. You know, there's things that are sort of obvious, and I feel like two thousand and one is also. But I just think it has to be that guy.

I mean he literally like worked with NASA, like that image of Jupiter, like we didn't have that, Like he his conversations with NASA sort of developed that that red spot like they sort of learned at least this is what I read as they kind of learned. And then the centrifuge, like you know, no one's kind of done that, like no one, like nowadays we just do cgi like no one's gonna bother with that kind of creativity of set design necessarily. I don't I don't even you know

what I mean, It's just crazy. Yeah, it's a really good answer, and I will take it. Okay, Well, is the film you could or have watched? The micet Iver and ivery good. I mean, I brain Candy became sort of a favorite of our just my friends, I mean mcgruber. I mean, they're definitely like comedies I think, I mean, Star Wars. I've probably watched a ton like way too many times because I thought there was a formula in there. I thought there was there's something, you know, perfect underneath

all this. In terms a storytelling, it's that Joseph Campbell, you know, heroic journey or hero's journey. And I felt like I needed to sort of get that, you know, kind of understand Okay, these are the beads to tell a tell a great story and you know start you know, Star Wars isn't for everyone, or I took it kind of seriously like that, you know, And so obviously I've seen that one a whole lot. I mean I do. But you know, some certain comedies Mcgruber, Cable Guy, I'd

be like, I've probably seen them a lot. I like that you you picked. I think that's really I think it's quite interesting that the answer to that question is

often a silly comedy. And yeah, and silly comedies are never taken seriously, as you know, or as that they're real sort of rewarded by you know, the press, or they're just considered and yet you go, and yet they're the things that people will watch over and over again, and I think it's amazing you made mass and your your your love is brain Candy and the group the same way pot Thomas Anderson loves Adam Sandom movies like it's fascinating. Oh yeah, really, yeah, I mean it is.

It's just joy, you know, I mean whatever, it's it's yeah, it's sort of you know, it's like I don't want to say escape, but it's just like an infusion of happiness that's sort of undeniable and we need that. You know, you need that in your life. And so the sort of the real sort of guaranteed kind of successful sort of you know, mood swing or in a good way, you know, it's kind of get you in, I guess,

or sort of tend to be comedies. I mean, I feel like I've seen a lot of heavy movies a lot um but those are I wonder it's such a good quiet which I wish I could know. It'd be fun to sort of know if you could kind of someone was keeping the stats, Yeah, what what we need of us? Like to be negative? So I'll do it quickly. But what's the worst film you ever see? Bearing in mind all films are hard to make, and everyone does their best. Yes, Oh this is hard. I don't know.

I mean, I know, okay, I know this is Yeah, there's like big people involved in this movie. So I'm worried. But Havoc was so bad, Like even I think I auditioned for everything. You know, I'm like a desperate actor. Havoc was so I don't know if you know what this is. It's sort of about like LA kids and like privileged kids or prep school kids, and like I grew up in this city and this knew this world and it like mentioned by high school and like so

it was just like it was so bad. It was so it was such also kind of like I got it, like I sort of understood the general sort of like feel of it and how to these kids were portrayed. But it was also such bullshit and just so silly that even I didn't audition for it. And when we just sat around ripping that movie apart, I remember like Howard the Duck because it scared the shit out of me. And also it was it wasn't it Lucas or it was who was it? Who was someone produced it? Maybe directed? Yeah,

they produced it. Well, it was so offensive because as a kid, I was like, what the hell, you know, like because it's kind of upset me. It was sort of disturbing and scary and I didn't get what was going on, and so I remember being like, you know, violently angrily, you know, violent about how bad and you know that was, and like I want my money back kind of vibe duck, Yeah, what's the film that made you laughed? The Moist? I mean, I don't know, I

didn't I A Grouper's up there. I don't know why that sort of top of my mind is sort of comedies. I mean, I gotta come up. I keep I know, I keep saying the same that's okay. Yeah, I mean I saw I met will Forde once and I was like, oh man, I'm such a fan, like the Grouper is so good and he was like not good enough, and I laughed and I'm like, no, no, no, it's like it's like, honestly, I think it's one of the best comedies ever made. And was like, not good enough. It

was also, and I was like, yes, you genius. Yeah. Um, so I don't know that's a that's a damn good one. I'm just silly. I don't know. I feel like I shouldn't get I should have better than that. Both bananas. I loved Woody Allen's bananas. Laughed a lot. I don't know we're allowed to talk about what you are. I just yeah, yeah, bananas makes me very sad now though very upset now, Frank Krans, you have been wonderful. Thank

you for indulging me in all the conversation about your film. However, when you were sixty four and you went for a walk in the woods and natural causes happened. I eat, a bear was walking past, saw you and mold you to death, ate your head, crunched your skull open, pulled a lung out, and I was walking through the woods and I was like, I wonder where Frank Krans has had a coffin with me, you know what I'm like? And then I see this absolutely yeah, absolutely chaos. There's

bits of you, of the wolves Eastmide. You liver on a tree. I mean, this bear was having a right out of time. And I'm likes the bear camera mate a natural buzzes gather the bears like, oh sorry, I was just having some fun. So I do what I can. I collect all the bits of you. I kind of put you in the coffin. But there's you know, bits of three bits of fucking bear sick like he's at a right. I stuff you in the coffin. There's there's more of you than I was expecting. The coffin is full.

There is really only enough room in this for me to slip one DVD into the side for you to take across to the other side one beat a max if you prefer. And on the other side this movie night every night. What film are you taking to show when it is your movie night in heaven with you one million versions of your daughter in the PASTA what you're gonna say? Yeah, that's so good. I mean we talked about the infusion of sort of joy and happening,

you know, Carmody gives you. I've forgotted me for some reason. I think the funny movies that I could watch over and over, like Pootie Tang, I forgot Yeah, but I don't know, like it's so cheesy, but Star Wars started at all. It was just it open. It was like it filled my life with like so much sort of like hope and promise. As cheesy as that sounds, of like I want to be in that world I want to, you know, so it's hard not to sort of like

take that first seminal movie with you. This is cheap, and I know there's a thousands of my daughters in heaven with pasta, but I you know, it's almost like a movie we enjoyed together would be nice too, you know, like one of the things that she sort of loved, like Willow bad Lands, Um bad Lands. I know, well you haven't even mentioned that one. Uh that's sort of a perfect movie. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm bad at this. I should have really been unready with my definitive answer.

I'm gonna just say Star Wars. You can take Star Wars. Franks. Is there anything before you, guy, that you would like to tell people to look out for and watch other than mass Oh? Well, check out Julia on HBO Max. It's out right now. I'm an actor on it, Thank god I can still have an acting career. And it's really really really sweet and charming, and Sarah Lancashire is a genius and as Julia Child and it's really it's

really good. It's just a really good show. And that's another infusion of joy and what could otherwise be a sort of dreary life. You know, fantastic. Yeah, Frank Cranz, thank you for your time and your work and for your film. God bless you. Thank you, man, thank you, thank you, wonderful death, thank you, goodbye. Thanks man. So that was episode one hundred and ninety seven. We are getting close to two hundred down. What's going to happen?

Head over to the Patreon at patreon dot com Forward slash break I was seeing for the extra thirty minutes of chat, secrets and video with Frans Get to Apple podcasts. I'm right about the film that means the most to you? Put five stars, tell us about the film that made you cry or means the most to you. And my neighbor Marien loves reading them. Thank you all for listening. I hope you enjoyed that one. Thank you so much to Fran for doing the show. Thanks to Max for

setting it up. I'm very grateful to you. Thanks to groups pipping the Distraction Pieces Network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to eight Gus for hosting it. Takes that it reaches into the graphics at least Lite for the photography. Come and join me next week. I'm trying to get something done in time for next week. Let's hope I'd do it, and if not, there'll be something else here. But whatever it is, you know it'll

be great. I really hope you're all well. Please have a lovely week, and please be excellent to each other. That was as acts. Austen was accust