How Cities Really Work

And we have Carol Robinson, who's associate professor and interim dean of external affairs at Texas Southern University in their School of Public Affairs. Professor Robinson is also a former at-large member of the Houston City Council in Texas. Welcome both of you.

Um Houston was never woke, from what I can tell, but um it was more traditional, um some more traditional uh liberal politics.

But Carole, um what led to Whitmeyer's election, you know, the new mayor, and and and what do you think he's doing? And and is this a move in a different direction?

Bush, Republicans, combine those two, and he beat Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, who folks would have described as the progressive. Um, I don't think Congresswoman Lee would have seen herself necessarily as progressive as opposed to being a traditional Republican. Uh, but Whitmeyer won on an agenda around police, fixing an issue around firefighters' pension and dealing with infrastructure issues in the city, and folks wanted to get back to those kind of basics.

We were having water mains break, uh, water bills were increasing, and he was the candidate talked about addressing those basic, um, what I call uh city issues, and he got elected.

center cities, and then with the rejection of uh mayor breed, um we've seen kind of a turnaround. What what do you make of all of that? And then is it continuing?

And so now we're in a period where, you know, in Mayor London Breed, who ascended to the mayoralty after the untimely death of Mayor Ed Lee, so, you know, there was that tragedy in the city, and then uh, you know, being the the leader in the nation on on COVID and COVID response, uh, and also uh leading the way in police reform, but also increasing public safety.

So now we're seeing the benefits, and you know, I do support this mayor, Mayor Lurie, he's out there every day and continuing the policies that were actually started by Mayor Breed. But in my view, the rejection of Mayor Breed was also circumstantial. Uh, we had a very volatile and intense mayor's race where you want to talk about progressive and moderate, which I believe are completely devoid of meaning in the city right now.

You had uh Mayor London Breed and um interim Mayor Mark Farrell, who um was briefly mayor after Ed Lee's death, um basically causing a scene, right? And uh for Daniel Lurie, who got in there and rolled up his sleeves and and got the second place votes, because we have a nonpartisan municipal races, uh, but there's also ranked choice voting.

And so that carried him, he you know, was able to get the second place votes, uh a large number of second place votes that carried him into the mayor's office. Uh, but we're still grappling with a lot of the issues um uh that we were grappling with five years ago. And while there aren't as many graphic images on Fox News or on the internet about what's happening in San Francisco, we're still extremely short. And police officers were still seeing a lot of public drug use.

Um, unfortunately, just last week, uh, a member of Urban Alchemy, which is a nonprofit that helps support community safety and work with folks in the tenderloin, um, uh, an employee was shot and killed for asking someone to stop using drugs. So, you know, progressive, moderate, and how Trump is affecting that, and how New York is affecting what's happening here in San Francisco. I mean, the people who are paying the highest price for it are the residents.

And I would argue that from the period of 2019 until last year, we were moving in a more to the center uh from the far left. Uh, we were seeing less calls to defund and dismantle the police from the very top levels of government on the board of supervisors, uh, to more of let's give the police technologies that they, you know, that they can use to increase public safety.

I will say though, the results of 2024 in some particular races here in San Francisco, I think have led to the reversal of a few recalls that happened, right? We recalled a district attorney who was a former public defender. So that was interesting, uh, and then recalled uh some members of the school board uh who weren't getting kids back in school, right? But all of that has been, it's been reversed.

So in my view, San Francisco uh is moving a little bit more to the left, uh, which, you know, I've moved, I was born here and then, you know, did my thing, college in DC. But then when I came back in 2005, we've since seen the pendulum swing a couple of times, and we're in the midst of that. And I think San Francisco is moving to the left.

it's hard to prove incompetence more consistently. Um and yet, you know, because of her opposition to ICE, she's gonna be uh re-elected, I think, in in a walk um in a city that you it's hard to find an Angelino who doesn't think things are worse than they were.

But from an Angelino perspective, there are just really basic bread and butter issues that people care about, like making sure that the streets are safe downtown and um uh getting the graffiti off the buildings and uh having a sense of civil order, not uh draconian civil order, but at least just you know civilized conversations. Um that seems to be missing in here.

And um I wonder the degree to which uh the Trump polarization has deflected conversation around these kind of basic issues, or whether it's reinforced the focus on them. What do you guys think about that?

And uh what's happened is, and even at the state party, a group of us brought a resolution to the state party earlier this year to um, you know, the last position the state party took until this past June, the position of record of the California Democratic Party was to defund the police. That was still there.

So we brought forward a measure um from the San Francisco Democratic Party to say, hey, we should support communities, we should support public safety, and we should support fully staffing our local police departments and of course support community policing and all the stuff that residents are asking for.

Well, in um there was recently another meeting of the executive committee of our local democratic party where the chair of our party, um, you know, there was this, um the narrative was, of course, around ICE and understandably like what we're seeing in our streets with ICE and how our immigrant communities are so deeply affected and afraid. Uh, but it it was completely in reaction to Trump. Um, it was about sharing automated license plate reader data uh with federal authorities.

And the chair of our party, who is a career, you know, almost 30-year career prosecutor, Chinese, which is another community that's been very underrepresented in elected officials here in San Francisco, said, Hey, we don't have to share with ICE, but the first six hours when a child is missing or when a crime is committed, that's when we're able to find that child or that older person.

And the more extreme wing of the party, including folks from San Francisco, who, you know, maybe their um elected official was recalled in 2019. Um, there's been a whole campaign around um organized labor to uh go after the chair of the party for saying, you know, saying that she supports ICE. So we're in this, you know, all she was saying was, listen, I'm a career prosecutor, I understand how data's shared. San Francisco is a sanctuary city, we all support that.

However, with automated license plate reader, which San Francisco readers, which San Francisco just got in 2024, right? Let's be smart and protective of our communities and ensure that we're doing the right thing and and how we share things. And um, that has been totally taken out of context.

And now the frame, instead of talking about safer communities and keeping families here in the city and making housing more affordable, has become this, you know, you guys are all Trump Democrats support Trump.

in Houston? It's a huge immigrant community there, too.

Look, um if Whitmeyer runs for re-election in Houston, he'll be re-elected because he can put together a bipartisan coalition. And even if we had ranked choice voting in Houston, it would still be hard to beat him because you have to have a quality opponent who's more in touch with the issues that are of concern to voters.

Yes, ICE is an issue even in Houston, but ICE doesn't dominate um the policy landscape because folks have other concerns, and the mayor and council have been focused on those concerns, even the county commissioners. I mean, like literally, we're gonna lose what most folks eight years ago thought was a rising star in the Democratic Party, and then party in Texas and nationally, Alina Hidalgo.

New York is, man, the the the likely mayor was lucky that he got two weak opponents and he had a mayor Adams who imploded. Um mayor Adams was not gonna be re-elected. He started out thinking he was the model, but then the true nature of him came out um and he imploded. He was terrible at policy, he was he was corrupt. Anybody was gonna beat that guy. Karen Bass can be beaten, but you got to have a candidate, right? Sufficient money and the right conversation about issues.

I mean, out here in California right now, you're having a conversation about loss of land, lack of um uh home insurance, the cost of rebuilding, but you just don't have anyone stepping up to offer ideas and solutions. And when you have to run a political campaign, um, you want to be a candidate. The campaign starts before the calendar says the campaign is started.

Um, and I mean, I'm telling gonna tell you what the real lucky issue for Mayor Bass is, is um I think it's Caruso, the guy that ran against her last time, wants to run for governor.

city, are not into being in the mall or even uh on rodeo drive and people smashing and grabbing jewelry.

What is there enough uh civic will amongst everybody and civic focus that can actually tie groups together? Or are we looking at basically ungovernable uh uh areas?

I mean, Rick Caruso, actually, who had been a lifelong Republican, is now a Democrat theoretically. Um and and so I I think it's very hard to get to these issues when you have a one-party system. And in and of course, in Texas, the cities have to fight back against a Republican.

Um, you know, I can't tell you how many people, not just in Houston, but across the uh across Texas uh and across the country, who are complaining about the increase in their electricity bill. Um, you know, we want innovation, but the regular consumer don't want to carry the cost of uh what it's gonna uh the cost of electricity going up, but there's there's really nobody speaking to it. I mean, folks made made made fun of Trump in the last campaign, but my dad sent six kids to college off tips.

And I'm I'm old enough to remember when I started out as a room service waiter and they ultimately started taxing tips for a lot of people who work in that space, even though he hadn't fulfilled that, the fully fulfilled that commitment. I'm really shocked that nobody's talking about, in terms of let's say Democrats, a lot actual literal fix. If you want to fix Social Security, just lift the cap on income subject to FICA. Um, but we have to fight in the context of uh income tax.

But the the thing that would help more working class people is like literally putting that money in Social Security and stop barring it to run the government. But we're the the politicians aren't having a real conversation. Most politicians aren't having a real conversation that would really move voters. Um, and 26 and 28 may be an opportunity to have that kind of conversation. We have a more realistic conversation at the city level because Tuesday is the day they pick up my garbage.

If the garbage doesn't get picked up on Tuesday, I know it didn't get picked up on Tuesday. I have to pay a water bill every month. So every time the city raises the water bill, I have to pay property taxes. Um, and that's a big issue in Houston and across the country. Folks just don't want to pay for lack of quality delivery.

And, you know, the treasurer's office here in San Francisco, the top person in the treasurer's office just got put on leave for corruption charges, right? So it's just that's what this mayor's focusing

on. But we need more than one, despite the fact that he's the mayor and he's got a very powerful pulpit, we need someone besides the mayor focusing on that as well. And it means we can't have an adversarial board of supervisors. However, we are about to move into a majority progressive board of supervisors here.

The mayor, you know, there was a supervisor who was just recalled across the way from where I live because um he closed a road, a main artery, right next to where most of his residents um live, or many of his concerned residents live, um, you know, to turn it into a park, right? And so when you talk about our cities governable, I'm interpreting that as can the government run the city on its own?

And I think what's happening in San Francisco, because of the extremism that we've seen here, and you know, we're only 7, 8% Republican here. So the extremism is on the left. And that extremism has infiltrated our bureaucracy and has been reflected in the policies that our government has enacted over many years. And that's why usually there's a pendulum swing.

But now we're in a period where in 2024 that pendulum swing was interrupted, so it was prematurely interrupted, it was moving towards the center, it's now moving back towards the left, and uh we are gonna see more slow progress. And then when you talk about the extreme policies, which um is a version of kicking the can down the road of making the tough decisions you should have made 20 years ago.

So the people who are now paying the price of extreme policies, term limits, which you know, law of the land, 1990, statewide term limits went into effect here um in California. So you have folks who are running for office and then immediately wondering what they're gonna do for their next job. You have people getting elected to the board of supervisors who've never had to balance a budget and who are learning how to balance a budget or even, you know, pass a budget.

Uh, and they're wondering, well, where am I going to work next, right? Um, because of term limits. And so I think we're also paying the price for that. Coupled with, as you had mentioned earlier, um running campaigns. You know, I've been I've done every job in a campaign, I've done many, almost every job in government. Um, you know, I've been elected to office and I've also been defeated in my pursuit of being elected to office.

And I think how those campaigns are run now, they're doing an excellent job in capitalizing on the extreme policies that are causing families to flee the city or to be afraid and to make emotional decisions based on the fear and uncertainty that has been imposed upon them by extreme uh left policymakers here in the city. So I'm not saying it's not governable, it's slower than it needs to be. And fast change happens when bad things happen, when somebody dies who shouldn't be, right?

Like a block away in August 2023, a block away from my house, a shopkeeper was killed. Um, you know, a friend of ours uh because someone was trying to steal two beers, right?

And that's kind of what finally led to people coming on board and saying, you know, we need automated license plate readers, we need to have drones because we're a 500 police officer short, you know, and in our neighborhood at any given time there may be you know, you know, you're you're raising a really uh interesting point.

Um that sounds to me like government needs to be more responsive to technological changes and the adoption of new technology. Do you see that appetite changing within governments?

them?

Um the the the saddest thing that's happened during the Trump administration is the fact that modernization has become such a demonized phenomenon. And the reality is um government at all levels has to become more modernized. I um I'm sure everybody on this call lived through, you know, the uh where was I? I went to I went to Miami uh a couple months back, and as I travel the country now, um it's rare to see cabs anymore.

And I remember when Uber first came along, municipal governments just did not know what to do with Uber because we made so much money off cab medallions. And it took us a long time, and some of that is still out there. Airbnb came along, we made money off hotel occupancy taxes, so we just started pulling our hair out.

Um and technology and the customer experience for people outside of government continues to speed up, but folks in government, no matter how much longevity they have in government, just have, to me, seem to have turned a blind eye for the need for government um to increase, um, to become faster, quicker, more efficient at customer service.

I mean, I can't remember if it's UPS or uh FedEx, one of them figured out that if they eliminated left turns, they saved on gasoline because for them, fuel was such a high cost for folks in the city. I'm just gonna do Houston. They don't care that fuel is a high cost. So we have not, we have avoided using technology to make the garbage routes more effective, to make the city vehicle fleet more effective, to um improve. Um, I think somewhere there was like 24 law enforcement agencies.

Um we can't even agree to coordinate and use technology to more efficiently um police the city just in terms of where the police cars are going to route themselves during the course of a day to reduce the likelihood of crime or be more visible. And so it's not just San Francisco, sadly. It's just there's, I don't know if it's a lack of vision, a fear of the new.

But government at the municipal level is way behind what it needs to do to be more effective because at some point people are going to get tired of paying more in taxes. And so they have the benefit of moving. The thing that's come out of the post-pandemic reality is more and more companies have decided we'll use technology to maximize productivity and you don't have to be physically present where we want you to work.

And residents are starting to have that freedom to keep their insurance, but move physically. So I think that's a that's a manifestation of what we're going to see more of.

of urban decay would be kind of catastrophic.

And then you've got the tension with the people who purport to represent the lowest income people who don't support housing, who don't support public safety. You know, there was a study and some data released recently around where our Latino community has been the most severely impacted by violent crime here, right?

And so, and yet the far left, I mean, they're they're talking about ICE and they're talking about, you know, there's there's that definitely needs to be addressed, and we have to protect those underserved communities and those that are targeted. But at the same time, city leaders need to stop kind of testing what's going out there and start to do the right thing.

And even, you know, in City Hall, I think that the advances in AI and just daily technology use and the by the people who work there will drive that advance advancement. But will San Francisco moderate in its political views? Um, it has come a long way without having to do that. So if it's not broke yet, um there hasn't been the kind of revolt against that kind of leadership.

And I think part of it is, you know, San Francisco, there is something in the air and water that kind of when you see things here that in any other city you wouldn't see politically.

Um, I think Houston is committed to the idea of improving public service, police, fire, municipal employee picking up the garbage. We're gonna have a probably a big debate in the next five years about uh do we implement a garbage fee to improve um uh garbage services? Um and uh and uh or either we swap it for an old uh water fee. So we're gonna have a uh, I think a conversation about what do we trade off in terms of revenue streams to improve services that need to be improved.

Um I think the city of Houston continues to grow. Uh, we probably will be outgrown by the county, but I think a lot of places, we have a lot of what's called unincorporated area in the county. Um they'll probably want to uh do deals with the city for water and other kinds of basic services. Uh we'll probably see a gradual change in the state. Um, right now, I think the legislature is fighting between, let's call them the Trump MAGA and traditional Republicans.

And so a lot of that they've taken out on cities and trying to over-supervise cities. I think some of that goes away because um nobody's really paying attention to it. But what the redistricting in Texas has done is it is drawn a lot of the more conservative Republicans out of the legislature. Um, and we'll probably end up, you know, if the map holds up, sending a lot of extremely conservative state house members to Washington, D.C.

Um, and you get a younger generation of Republicans, and we get a younger generation of city council members in 2027. Um, because we now have two four-year limits uh for city council members, we will lose about six or seven city council members. Uh, but we are we are a pretty unique place. We got a we get a lot of younger folks running. So I think the the younger people being more used to technology and innovation will bring that with them into city government, and we'll see the same thing.

We'll end up with a new county judge in 2026. It'll be somebody likely younger. Um, if not, it'll be uh um a former mayor of the city, andise Parker is running. Uh so if she becomes county judge, then the city and the county will have a um a better relationship because you'll have a former mayor as the county judge with a more moderate mayor, Whitmeyer, Ed Pollard, or Chris Hollins, or somebody else.

So in the next five years, Houston is going to be pretty focused on basic which revenue stream generates enough for us to do the basic kind of things we need to do, protect our water system.

and talk more about it. Thank you. Terrific.